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View Full Version : Do you root for Josh Hamilton?



Blitz Dorsey
10-20-2010, 10:33 PM
Or do you kind of root against him so the Volquez trade doesn't look too bad?

I'm always torn. Loved Hammy when he was a Red and part of me is glad to see him absolutely tearing it up with the Rangers. AL batting champ ... basically the Joey Votto of Texas' lineup. (And I have dreams of how potent the Reds would be with both Hamilton and Votto in the same lineup.)

But I also want to look back on "the trade" and believe that it was a "win-win" for both teams. That's how I felt in 2008, but right now, the trade is clearly in the Rangers' favor. Then again, who knows how good Volquez will be the next few years.

Anyway, do you root for JH?

Chip R
10-20-2010, 10:37 PM
I absolutely root for him even though I still think the Reds needed pitching more than hitting. I usually root for former Reds who have done well with the Reds. Josh did well when he was here, he didn't cause any trouble so I'll root for him.

If Josh and Joey win their respective league's MVPs, we'll have a former and current Red as the MVPs at the same time.

Joseph
10-20-2010, 10:40 PM
I root for him and I'd still make the trade. We needed Volquez, we didn't need Hamilton at the time. Sure he is MVP worthy now, but Volquez has the stuff to be in Cy Young convos if he gets it together. If he doesn't, thats ok too.

Good luck to Josh the man and the player.

OnBaseMachine
10-20-2010, 10:42 PM
I root for him and I'd still make the trade. We needed Volquez, we didn't need Hamilton at the time. Sure he is MVP worthy now, but Volquez has the stuff to be in Cy Young convos if he gets it together. If he doesn't, thats ok too.

Good luck to Josh the man and the player.

That's exactly how I feel.

Caveat Emperor
10-20-2010, 10:52 PM
I like the logic behind the trade. The Reds had, as an organization, been horrible at developing pitching over the last 15-20 years. At the same time, the organization seemed to be constantly pushing a new stud bat through to the majors. The team had a surplus of outfielders. Hamilton was/is an addict (1 failed test away from being gone for good), had shown some health problems in his limited time here (possibly the lingering after-effects of years of neglect and abuse to his body), and wasn't mixing well with some elements in the clubhouse.

Trade made sense at the time. No fault in grabbing for a deal that makes sense.

Having said that, if I had a time machine, I'd go back and smack Krivsky around for considering the deal. Since the deal has been made, Hamilton has become one of the best offensive players in baseball while Volquez has gone under the knife and shown 0 ability to command his stuff. And, in the interim, the Reds have put together a fantastic stable of young pitching to the point where they could lose Volquez tomorrow and no one would notice.

Reds lost this trade, badly.

WMR
10-20-2010, 10:54 PM
I root like hell for him. Most people who went through what he has would be dead right now. Pulling even harder for him outside of baseball than between the lines.

Blitz Dorsey
10-20-2010, 11:00 PM
(1 failed test away from being gone for good)

Wow, that's interesting. Are you sure that is accurate? So, if he is busted for coke or something, he's done in MLB for good? How did Steve Howe, Darryl Strawberry and many others have multiple chances? These aren't PEDs we're talking about. Then again, maybe the rules have changed since then and I just missed it. But I didn't realize Hamilton was one failed drug test (for recreational drugs) away from being banned from baseball for life. That doesn't seem to add up to me. Can anyone confirm or deny?

Blitz Dorsey
10-20-2010, 11:02 PM
Does anyone else see the irony in the fact that at the time of the trade Hamilton was the one known for drug abuse. However, who has been suspended by MLB for taking PEDs since then? Volquez.

Reds Fanatic
10-20-2010, 11:05 PM
I will always root for Josh wherever he goes. His life is one of the all time great comeback stories. By the way I still agree with the trade. The Reds needed pitching and made a big move to get a top starter. I have no problem with making a move like that to try to improve the team.

VR
10-20-2010, 11:56 PM
Easy to cheer for.....unbelievable story, unbelievable talent. He's the ultimate 5 tool player.

Cedric
10-20-2010, 11:58 PM
Of course. He seems like a truly good guy and I know what hell he has been through.

He is easily my favorite player that isn't a Red.

Wheelhouse
10-21-2010, 12:06 AM
Heck yes. I don't know why we traded him. He was a once-in-a-lifetime player who showed signs of putting it all together with the Reds, who were a bottom tier team at the time. I wish they'd traded a multiple of their players for Volquez, rather than Hamilton. In fact, they could have parted with Phillips that year who hit 30 hr, and gotten the deal done. But, it's easy to look back. I was worried about the drug use/injury factor too.

Bob Borkowski
10-21-2010, 12:12 AM
Reds lost this trade, badly.

To me, this statement is premature.

A final judgement on the trade can hardly be made this soon. Give things some time to shake out a little bit more. Hamilton continues to be very injury prone and his longterm future is very shaky for that reason.

Far East
10-21-2010, 12:18 AM
My daughter probably has watched one regular season game -- Reds vs Indians when Aaron Laffey (a local boy from here in Maryland) pitched for the Tribe against Leake (I believe).

But now in post-season, she has become a Rangers' fan, because of Hamilton.

It comes close to bringing tears (of joy) to my eyes every time I see Josh smack a line drive somewhere. He was easily my favorite Red.

His comeback story, although much more dramatic, is something like Ankiel's.
It was difficult for me to root against Rick (even as a Cardinal), considering his persistent work at trying to convert from pitcher to position player to get back to the Majors.

Caveat Emperor
10-21-2010, 01:05 AM
And, to answer the question, yes -- I root for Josh Hamilton wherever he goes.

Captain Hook
10-21-2010, 01:22 AM
I root for him but mostly because the played for the Reds.The story is great and all but if it had been the Cubs that had given him his chance and the story remained the same I'd care less.

Ron Madden
10-21-2010, 03:13 AM
While there may be some truth to the saying that we as fans root for laundry, that's not always the case.

I was a big Fan of guys like Robinson, Perez, Rose, Morgan, Gullett, O'Neill and Dunn. I find it difficult to stop rooting for a player just because he now plays for another club. I rooted for all of those players after they left the Reds and yes I still root for Josh Hamilton.

RedsBaron
10-21-2010, 06:53 AM
I root for Josh Hamilton in every game he plays (if he ever plays in a game against the Reds I hope he plays well, in defeat). His story is amazing and inspiring, he seems to be a good guy, and I hope he wins the AL MVP for 2010. At this point I also hope he gets a World Series ring, in part because I would much rather see the Rangers win than I would the remaining teams left in the post season.
Unless a former Red was a real jerk while he was in a Reds uniform I generally root for former Reds to do well.

Roy Tucker
10-21-2010, 07:52 AM
Unless a former Red was a real jerk while he was in a Reds uniform I generally root for former Reds to do well.

I agree with RB on this. I generally have good feelings about guys who spent some time on the Reds and moved on.

I think my feelings on the Volquez/Hamilton trade will continue to oscillate back and forth depending on how they are currently doing. At the time they made the trade, I thought it was a good one. Now I'm not so sure.

Hamilton is a once-in-a-lifetime talent but now injury-prone. When he's healthy, he is arguably the best player in baseball. I really don't worry about him relapsing into drugs at this time. That part of his life seems in his past. I do root for him to do well. His All-Star HRD showing was one for the ages.

Volquez is coming off TJ surgery and a 50 game suspension. He looked good for a month but melted down in his playoff start. I want to think he has a good run in him as a starter for the Reds but that is far from a given thing. But he is not the mega-talent that Hamilton is.

NJReds
10-21-2010, 09:21 AM
I root for him, but it does burn me that he will probably go down as the one who got away. The kind of attention that he brings to a franchise goes beyond stats. He's a genuine superstar right now.

reds1869
10-21-2010, 09:45 AM
I wish Hamilton all the success in the world. He is a genuinely great guy who plays all out all the time. There is no possible reason to want him to fail; cheering against him to make the Reds "win" a trade is small.

johngalt
10-21-2010, 09:46 AM
I don't root for him and it has nothing to do with how I want the trade to look.

Drug addiction is a tragic thing, certainly, and it can be a horrible experience. It's pretty amazing that he's come back from that to become such a great player. But that alone isn't going to make me root for him. He's still just a good player on another team for me.

bucksfan2
10-21-2010, 09:57 AM
I don't root for him and it has nothing to do with how I want the trade to look.

Drug addiction is a tragic thing, certainly, and it can be a horrible experience. It's pretty amazing that he's come back from that to become such a great player. But that alone isn't going to make me root for him. He's still just a good player on another team for me.

I don't really root for players on other teams. I root for my team and thats about it. There are some players I like who play for other teams, but that doesn't mean I don't want them to fail miserably when they play the Reds.

Hamilton is the one exception. I wanted him, and the story, to have success with the Reds. I wanted him to become an All Star wearing a Reds cap. I wanted Hamilton to turn himself into a great player patrolling the outfield for the Reds. I still remember the day when he was traded and being mad on my drive home from work. I will root for Hamilton as long as he is playing in the majors. I hope he stays out of the NL or the NL Central for that matter.

_Sir_Charles_
10-21-2010, 09:57 AM
While there may be some truth to the saying that we as fans root for laundry, that's not always the case.

I was a big Fan of guys like Robinson, Perez, Rose, Morgan, Gullett, O'Neill and Dunn. I find it difficult to stop rooting for a player just because he now plays for another club. I rooted for all of those players after they left the Reds and yes I still root for Josh Hamilton.

It works the other way as well. I find it VERY hard to root for a current Red....Edmonds. It wasn't his old laundry that I disliked either.

Matt700wlw
10-21-2010, 10:29 AM
I'm glad Volquez won 17 games on a bad team.

They made the playoffs without him, and could have been better with Josh Hamilton.

Bad move.

Always Red
10-21-2010, 12:02 PM
I'm glad Volquez won 17 games on a bad team.

They made the playoffs without him, and could have been better with Josh Hamilton.

Bad move.

My timeline:

end of 2007: When the trade was made, I understood why it had to happen.:)

2008: it was a good trade for both teams!:D

2009-10: now it's a bad trade for the Reds because Volquez is hurt and Hamilton becomes a monster.:(

2011+: who knows?? Volquez has the talent to step it up to another level, which Hamilton has done. Hammy has one more strike and he's out of the game. Hamilton is also very injury prone, directly as a result of abusing his body.

I don't think this trade can be judged (the way it is on this thread) until both players have completed their body of work.

It sure would have been nice to have Josh Hamilton in the middle of this lineup. But without him, the Reds managed to lead the NL in BA and runs scored.

Cedric
10-21-2010, 12:15 PM
My timeline:

end of 2007: When the trade was made, I understood why it had to happen.:)

2008: it was a good trade for both teams!:D

2009-10: now it's a bad trade for the Reds because Volquez is hurt and Hamilton becomes a monster.:(

2011+: who knows?? Volquez has the talent to step it up to another level, which Hamilton has done. Hammy has one more strike and he's out of the game. Hamilton is also very injury prone, directly as a result of abusing his body.

I don't think this trade can be judged (the way it is on this thread) until both players have completed their body of work.

It sure would have been nice to have Josh Hamilton in the middle of this lineup. But without him, the Reds managed to lead the NL in BA and runs scored.

Volquez alone can't make this turn out to be a good trade for the Reds, IMO. He would have to make a cosmic leap into Halladay/Lincecum territory.

Hamilton is the best hitter in the game of baseball in my view. That makes this one hard to ever see as a good deal.

pedro
10-21-2010, 01:02 PM
Volquez alone can't make this turn out to be a good trade for the Reds, IMO. He would have to make a cosmic leap into Halladay/Lincecum territory.

Hamilton is the best hitter in the game of baseball in my view. That makes this one hard to ever see as a good deal.

That depends on a couple of things.

1. Will Hamilton stay healthy?

2. Will he repeat this years performance? Last year he had an OPS of .741

3. Is he a creation of his home park? His road OPS this year was .894. Very good, but not elite.

IMO there are a number of hitters who are better than Hamilton, Joey Votto being one of them.

Reds/Flyers Fan
10-21-2010, 01:08 PM
I'm not sure how anyone can say that the Rangers didn't win this trade? Come on ... this is Kentucky vs. Slippery Rock at Rupp Arena lopsided. I don't care that Edinson Volquez "may" put it together. He also may not, and certaily hasn't to this point. And when the trade was made, Josh Hamilton had still done more in his MLB career that EV, who was (and is) still nothing more than unrealized potential.

This was a bad trade. Period. We gave away a future American League MVP and a likely ALCS MVP for what? 1/2 season of good results, wild lack of control, a PED suspension and 1 2/3 innings of set-the-tone awfulness in our first playoff game in 15 years.

Geesh.

HokieRed
10-21-2010, 01:20 PM
Absolutely I root for Josh Hamilton but not because of the trade, which I hated and opposed at the time and still do. I like having Volquez but not at the price of Hamilton. Like Reds/Flyers Fan I don't see how there can be any debate any longer about who won the trade. We lost, massively. IMHO it's either the 2nd or 3rd worst trade since the 1950's when I started following the Reds. Nothing's worse than Frank for Pappas, but this one contends with Perez for Fryman for 2nd place.

bucksfan2
10-21-2010, 01:22 PM
I'm not sure how anyone can say that the Rangers didn't win this trade? Come on ... this is Kentucky vs. Slippery Rock at Rupp Arena lopsided. I don't care that Edinson Volquez "may" put it together. He also may not, and certaily hasn't to this point. And when the trade was made, Josh Hamilton had still done more in his MLB career that EV, who was (and is) still nothing more than unrealized potential.

This was a bad trade. Period. We gave away a future American League MVP and a likely ALCS MVP for what? 1/2 season of good results, wild lack of control, a PED suspension and 1 2/3 innings of set-the-tone awfulness in our first playoff game in 15 years.

Geesh.

I prefer to think of it like Kentucky vs. Gardner Webb. While it may seem like a big time lopsided trade, if the stars align the trade may not be so bad. Volquez has the stuff to be the real deal but he has yet to put it all together. There have been many a young prospect who has stuff but never realizes his potential. Hopefully Volquez can put it all together. But I for one would not bet on it.

Chip R
10-21-2010, 01:23 PM
Let's stay on the point of why you root/don't root for Josh Hamilton instead of debating the trade again for the umpteenth time.

CTA513
10-21-2010, 01:27 PM
Let's stay on the point of why you root/don't root for Josh Hamilton instead of debating the trade again for the umpteenth time.

I doubt that happens since the trade is brought up anytime Hamilton is mentioned.

Chip R
10-21-2010, 01:34 PM
I doubt that happens since the trade is brought up anytime Hamilton is mentioned.

Nevertheless, stay on topic.

pedro
10-21-2010, 01:45 PM
I root for him because schadenfraude is not nice.

Plus he's in process of taking down the yankees which is always appreciated.

RedsBaron
10-21-2010, 01:47 PM
Absolutely I root for Josh Hamilton but not because of the trade, which I hated and opposed at the time and still do. I like having Volquez but not at the price of Hamilton. Like Reds/Flyers Fan I don't see how there can be any debate any longer about who won the trade. We lost, massively. IMHO it's either the 2nd or 3rd worst trade since the 1950's when I started following the Reds. Nothing's worse than Frank for Pappas, but this one contends with Perez for Fryman for 2nd place.

It is certainly possible that Volquez may have a season or two in which he is more valuable than Hamilton. Volquez is two years younger than Hamilton, and sometimes pitchers reach their peak later than hitters. Even Milt Pappas had a season after "the trade" in which he was arguably more valuable than Frank Robinson, albeit long after Pappas had left the Reds and with Robby no longer on the Orioles--in 1972 Pappas went 17-7 with a 2.77 ERA and a 138 ERA+, while Robinson hit .251 with 19 HRs, 59 RBI and a .861 OPS--had those been the numbers Pappas and Robinson posted in 1966 some Reds fans would have argued that Cincinnati got the best of Baltimore in the trade.
Anytime an "everyday" player is traded straight up for a pitcher there is a very real chance, even a probablity, that the everyday player will be more valuable than the pitcher. Hitters tend to be less injury prone and more consistent than pitchers. Rare is the pitcher who can reel off one great season after the other like Spahn or Maddux.
This post season has again illustrated how important starting pitching is, but that doesn't mean that trading an everyday player for a pitcher will not blow up in your face.

MikeS21
10-21-2010, 02:26 PM
Yes, I still root for Josh Hamilton. It's hard not to root for a guy with his history and talent. He is the only Reds player I can think of that I truly missed when he was traded or left due to FA - and that includes the various members of the BRM.

REDREAD
10-21-2010, 02:31 PM
Reds lost this trade, badly.

Yes, I agree completely. Even at the time of the trade, I thought the Reds lost.

I didn't think Josh would be a perennial MVP that could play CF, but it was obvious he was an impact bat. In all honesty, Volquez was a project when he arrived, and still is. He had one good year (possibly PED aided).

I agree with the other posters that say if Hamilton slips back into addiction, he will get continue to get plenty of chances as long as he can still hit a baseball. That's just life.

It's silly to say at the time of the trade that we did not "need" Hamilton.
A club always can use an impact bat at CF. That's like saying before the season started that we didn't "need" Ceuto since we had 5 bodies to fill the rotation. Makes no sense. Hamilton made a huge impact on the offense in the one year he was here, and the offense suffered after he left. If we kept Hamilton, we would not have had to suffer with Patterson/Taveras/Gomes in the OF the last few years. Dunn or Jr could've possibly been traded earlier too.

Wayne blew this one, based on the returns we have now. There's no way to rationalize otherwise.

westofyou
10-21-2010, 02:41 PM
Anytime an "everyday" player is traded straight up for a pitcher there is a very real chance, even a probablity, the the everyday player will be more valuable than the pitcher. Hitters tend to be less injury prone and more consistent than pitchers. Rare is the pitcher who can reel off one great season after the other like Spahn or Maddux.
This post season has again illustrated how important starting pitching is, but that doesn't mean that trading an everyday player for a pitcher will not blow up in your face.


Yep, baseball is a funny game sometimes and it's always a gamble, this certainly is not the first time this has happened (Lou Brock, Alex Johnson, Hal McRae, E.D) all traded for arms and in essence it was FAIL.

But it's a gamble this franchise needs to make now and then, hitters are their currency, hitters are what they have produced hands down year in and year out since 1956 (the year the reds became known for their bats)

The Reds have led the NL in Runs scored 10 times since 1956, they've led in ERA zero times and allowed the most runs 4 times. In short the team is always one arm short.
Baseball is a gamble, Hamilton's personal circumstances increased the odds in his emergence, dealing him was and alwys will be a caculated gamble, it was not a rash move.

Currently his injury history and BABIP also point to things about his game that get lost in the noise of his current success, consistency is the recipe for being the best hitter in the game and as it stands it was just a year ago that Hamilton had an OPS worse than Drew Stubbs.

It's a gamble this baseball crap.

If any team should be wringing their hands and lamenting the history of Hamilton and how they ended up with nothing in the end it's the Cubs, the jury is still out for the Reds as far as I'm concerned.

bucksfan2
10-21-2010, 02:49 PM
Dream with me here.

The Reds never traded Hamilton and are lighting the baseball world on fire in 2010. Hamilton and Votto are neck in neck in the MVP voting. When Hamilton is forced to miss time with injury capable backup, Johnny Gomes, is able to take over the LF position. Prior to the trade deadline, GM Walt Jocketty realizes a need for a top notch pitcher and trades Alonso + prospects to the Mariners for Cliff Lee. The Reds go on to lead the NL in wins and have home field advantage throughout the playoffs. A man can dream can't he?

Strikes Out Looking
10-21-2010, 03:21 PM
I root for anyone playing the Yankees.

westofyou
10-21-2010, 03:22 PM
Dream with me here.

The Reds never traded Hamilton and are lighting the baseball world on fire in 2010. Hamilton and Votto are neck in neck in the MVP voting. When Hamilton is forced to miss time with injury capable backup, Johnny Gomes, is able to take over the LF position. Prior to the trade deadline, GM Walt Jocketty realizes a need for a top notch pitcher and trades Alonso + prospects to the Mariners for Cliff Lee. The Reds go on to lead the NL in wins and have home field advantage throughout the playoffs. A man can dream can't he?

Note the lack of Jay Bruce in the above dream, because he's likely playing in Texas. The Reds were going to get an arm that year, someone was packing.

But it's a nice dream.

Which leads me to ask, How much hating would be heaped upon Lee once he chased the dollar out of Cincinnati?

dunner13
10-21-2010, 03:42 PM
Dream with me here.

The Reds never traded Hamilton and are lighting the baseball world on fire in 2010. Hamilton and Votto are neck in neck in the MVP voting. When Hamilton is forced to miss time with injury capable backup, Johnny Gomes, is able to take over the LF position. Prior to the trade deadline, GM Walt Jocketty realizes a need for a top notch pitcher and trades Alonso + prospects to the Mariners for Cliff Lee. The Reds go on to lead the NL in wins and have home field advantage throughout the playoffs. A man can dream can't he?

I think we offered Alonso and more to the Mariners for lee this year, they just liked the package the rangers gave them better. Even if we had kept Hamilton and were lighting the world on fire we wouldnt have had anything more to offer for Lee then we did this year.

bucksfan2
10-21-2010, 04:19 PM
I think we offered Alonso and more to the Mariners for lee this year, they just liked the package the rangers gave them better. Even if we had kept Hamilton and were lighting the world on fire we wouldnt have had anything more to offer for Lee then we did this year.

Had this hypothetical situation happened I think there would have been more pressing of a need to get Lee. The Reds could have trumped the Rangers but they wisely choose not to. Pretending that Hamilton is in LF this offense is without a doubt the best NL one in the playoffs. With Hamilton the club was a legit World Series contender

Hoosier Red
10-21-2010, 04:38 PM
Honestly I don't root for him. And I don't know why.
It's not that I'm rooting for the Reds to win the trade. It's not that I don't appreciate the incredible story of him coming back from the depths of addiction to do what he's doing. It's not that I don't root for players not on the Reds.

There's just something about his personality that grates on me and it comes out almost every time I hear him speak.

I've fully accepted this is more a reflection on me than it is on him, but I just don't like him.

westofyou
10-21-2010, 04:56 PM
Honestly I don't root for him. And I don't know why.
It's not that I'm rooting for the Reds to win the trade. It's not that I don't appreciate the incredible story of him coming back from the depths of addiction to do what he's doing. It's not that I don't root for players not on the Reds.

There's just something about his personality that grates on me and it comes out almost every time I hear him speak.

I've fully accepted this is more a reflection on me than it is on him, but I just don't like him.I agree with all of this, I don't find his story anymore compelling than David Eckstein's. As for he being a Red, I don't think he's anymore a Red than much beat upon (this season) Jason LaRue.

Generally I find hero worship an empty exercise, but I like to watch him hit.

RedsBaron
10-21-2010, 05:09 PM
I root for anyone playing the Yankees.

Yes. I root for Hamilton, but I would root for almost anybody playing against the Yankees.

Reds1
10-21-2010, 05:20 PM
I root for him and I'd still make the trade. We needed Volquez, we didn't need Hamilton at the time. Sure he is MVP worthy now, but Volquez has the stuff to be in Cy Young convos if he gets it together. If he doesn't, thats ok too.

Good luck to Josh the man and the player.

I also agree with rooting for him and we needed pitching at the time, but with the amazing young addition of arms I'd trade Volquez back for Hamilton in a heart beat right now, but to stay on point I absolutely root for him. As a matter of fact I am rooting for them to win it all and I'm a NL guy.

RFS62
10-21-2010, 05:36 PM
I like to watch him play too. Incredible talent.

I guess I root for him, but only because I root for anyone in any walk of life who overcomes adversity. He brought all of his problems on to himself, but the whole "prodigal son" aspect of his legend is an inspiration to many people, so I appreciate that.

Regarding the trade, it wasn't done in a vacuum. The whole idea of winning or losing this trade misses the point, IMO.

If I were in the desert with a flat tire and didn't have a jack, I'd probably give a lot more for one than I would otherwise. We traded out of surplus and into need. I liked the trade at the time, and I still do.

And it doesn't matter to me if he goes on to be a hall of famer or a bust, I'd still do the trade, considering our situation at the time it went down.

WVRedsFan
10-21-2010, 05:40 PM
I like to watch him play too. Incredible talent.

I guess I root for him, but only because I root for anyone in any walk of life who overcomes adversity. He brought all of his problems on to himself, but the whole "prodigal son" aspect of his legend is an inspiration to many people, so I appreciate that.

Regarding the trade, it wasn't done in a vacuum. The whole idea of winning or losing this trade misses the point, IMO.

If I were in the desert with a flat tire and didn't have a jack, I'd probably give a lot more for one than I would otherwise. We traded out of surplus and into need. I liked the trade at the time, and I still do.

And it doesn't matter to me if he goes on to be a hall of famer or a bust, I'd still do the trade, considering our situation at the time it went down.Valid points. That was then and this is now. I didn't like the trade then because I just knew Hamilton was going to do this. And I didn't think Volquez would be much of anything. I still feel the same, but I understand what was going on. I'd still undo the trade if I could, but I can't and I'm willing to live with the consequences.

And yeah, I root for him. And I'm glad he is in the American League...

REDblooded
10-21-2010, 08:07 PM
As much as I like Homer Bailey... I imagine that if we'd offered something along the lines of Homer/Stubbs that season that we still have Hamilton, and Volquez...

The deal was, there was a ton of jealousy in the clubhouse based on the kids gloves used on Hamilton, and fear that he would relapse... No way in heck we're a better team without him, and he's EASILY my favorite non-Reds player...

Cracked me up in the first half of this season all of the posters here clamoring for Dunn, and ignoring the fact that we used to have Hamilton...

mth123
10-21-2010, 08:37 PM
Honestly I don't root for him. And I don't know why.
It's not that I'm rooting for the Reds to win the trade. It's not that I don't appreciate the incredible story of him coming back from the depths of addiction to do what he's doing. It's not that I don't root for players not on the Reds.

There's just something about his personality that grates on me and it comes out almost every time I hear him speak.

I've fully accepted this is more a reflection on me than it is on him, but I just don't like him.

:thumbup:

REDblooded
10-21-2010, 09:37 PM
Yeah Hoosier... I can see how it would be tough to root for a guy that's trying so hard to bury his past that he speaks at a church instead of taking part in his teams division celebration... Or a guy that's so loved by his team that they celebrate with ginger ale instead of champagne after winning the ALDS...

What a goof.

CTA513
10-21-2010, 09:47 PM
Yeah Hoosier... I can see how it would be tough to root for a guy that's trying so hard to bury his past that he speaks at a church instead of taking part in his teams division celebration... Or a guy that's so loved by his team that they celebrate with ginger ale instead of champagne after winning the ALDS...

What a goof.

They used ginger ale so he would stay and be part of it.
Once they did that they went back to using champagne on everyone else.

MikeS21
10-21-2010, 09:47 PM
Think of it this way with no Hamilton/Volquez trade:

Our 2011 starting OF could have been Hamilton-Stubbs-Bruce. Would hands down be the best defensive OF in the NL and would be very close to being the best offensive OF in the NL.

Without Volquez, our 2011 starting rotation would include five of the following: Chapman, Leake, Cueto, Bailey, Wood, or Arroyo. The rotation would be very good, even without Volquez.

REDblooded
10-21-2010, 09:48 PM
BINGO'z goes to CTA... Now, a lot of that is hindsight, and moves that occurred following the trade, but still... wow.

johngalt
10-21-2010, 09:51 PM
Yeah Hoosier... I can see how it would be tough to root for a guy that's trying so hard to bury his past that he speaks at a church instead of taking part in his teams division celebration... Or a guy that's so loved by his team that they celebrate with ginger ale instead of champagne after winning the ALDS...

What a goof.

I guarantee you he's not as loved by all his teammates as you think.

There's a lot of people who will tell you that Hamilton turns it "on" and "off" depending on whether he's in public or private.

westofyou
10-21-2010, 09:56 PM
Yeah Hoosier... I can see how it would be tough to root for a guy that's trying so hard to bury his past that he speaks at a church instead of taking part in his teams division celebration... Or a guy that's so loved by his team that they celebrate with ginger ale instead of champagne after winning the ALDS...

What a goof.

Compared to some of his other reported exploits that sounds like an ok guy, kinda Ozzie and Harriet like.

Of course there is a whole lot more than that.

dougdirt
10-21-2010, 10:00 PM
Do I root for Josh Hamilton? Not any more than I do most other players. It depends on who he is playing against or the game situation.

Brutus
10-21-2010, 10:04 PM
I guarantee you he's not as loved by all his teammates as you think.

There's a lot of people who will tell you that Hamilton turns it "on" and "off" depending on whether he's in public or private.

Who are these people? I haven't heard them.

There were rumors that some of the Reds' players were not crazy about the special treatment he got from the organization, but I never took that to be an indictment about him. Specifically though, who are these people you speak of that say he turns it on or off?

I'll add that sometimes he comes across as a not very fun person to be around in terms of personality. But I don't know him so I can't make that kind of judgment.

Hoosier Red
10-21-2010, 10:12 PM
Yeah Hoosier... I can see how it would be tough to root for a guy that's trying so hard to bury his past that he speaks at a church instead of taking part in his teams division celebration... Or a guy that's so loved by his team that they celebrate with ginger ale instead of champagne after winning the ALDS...

What a goof.

As I said, there's nothing wrong with what he does in speaking to churches and helping others. I'm glad he's an inspiration to a lot of other people. I'm glad that his teammates like him.
His personality just frankly annoys me.

If he doesn't annoy you, be happy about that. If he does annoy you, then apparantly I'm not alone.

Homer Bailey
10-21-2010, 11:16 PM
As much as I like Homer Bailey... I imagine that if we'd offered something along the lines of Homer/Stubbs that season that we still have Hamilton, and Volquez...

The deal was, there was a ton of jealousy in the clubhouse based on the kids gloves used on Hamilton, and fear that he would relapse... No way in heck we're a better team without him, and he's EASILY my favorite non-Reds player...

Cracked me up in the first half of this season all of the posters here clamoring for Dunn, and ignoring the fact that we used to have Hamilton...

Rangers called about Hamilton, and Hamilton only.

westofyou
10-21-2010, 11:37 PM
Rangers called about Hamilton, and Hamilton only.


Six Texas scouts filed a total of 15 reports on Hamilton during the '07 season. All raved about him. In late October the Rangers put in a call to Cincinnati to gauge Hamilton's availability. "They acknowledged a glut of outfielders on their part, but Hamilton wasn't their top candidate to move," says Levine. "From Day One they wanted Edinson Volquez in return." Volquez was the top pitching prospect in the organization, and Texas had no intention of giving him up; instead, they offered 15 different player combinations that didn't include the 24-year-old righthander.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1138934/2/index.htm#ixzz133UahBOw

TeamBoone
10-21-2010, 11:47 PM
I love Josh! I still think his story is inspiring and I love that he has overcome such adversity in his life. Go Josh!

Red in Chicago
10-22-2010, 07:44 AM
For me to root for a player once they've left the team, it would require that they played more than 90 games in a Reds uniform. One season isn't enough time for me to have a vested interest in a player's career after he's left the team.

I have am not for or against Josh...pretty much indifferent.

Bob Borkowski
10-22-2010, 07:53 AM
For me to root for a player once they've left the team, it would require that they played more than 90 games in a Reds uniform. One season isn't enough time for me to have a vested interest in a player's career after he's left the team.

I have am not for or against Josh...pretty much indifferent.

Same here.

The former Reds I've even followed closely after they've left Cincinnati are few and far between...Rose, Robinson, Perez, Morgan and a few more but not many.

Why. I am a REDS fan pure and simple. Call that rooting for the laundry if you want. I call it being a fan, short for fanatic.

RFS62
10-22-2010, 08:00 AM
I guarantee you he's not as loved by all his teammates as you think.

There's a lot of people who will tell you that Hamilton turns it "on" and "off" depending on whether he's in public or private.



I have no personal or inside information to confirm this, but for some reason it really doesn't surprise me. The "backslide" which received so much attention this past offseason seemed to me to show a very selfish and narcissistic side to the guy. I never bought into the whole "devil made me do it" excuse for his past problems.

If his new found religion is what it takes for him to turn his life around, I have no problem with that, and I know it really resonates with a lot of people.

But it seems like a huge cop out to blame all your problems and self destructive behavior on the "devil".

oneupper
10-22-2010, 08:34 AM
.
But it seems like a huge cop out to blame all your problems and self destructive behavior on the "devil".

I tried that on my wife. She didn't buy it for a second. :evil:

pedro
10-22-2010, 09:08 AM
I have no personal or inside information to confirm this, but for some reason it really doesn't surprise me. The "backslide" which received so much attention this past offseason seemed to me to show a very selfish and narcissistic side to the guy. I never bought into the whole "devil made me do it" excuse for his past problems.

If his new found religion is what it takes for him to turn his life around, I have no problem with that, and I know it really resonates with a lot of people.

But it seems like a huge cop out to blame all your problems and self destructive behavior on the "devil".

Wow. He really blames his drug abuse on 'the devil'? I had no idea. It's pretty lame in my opinion for someone to not take personal responsibility for the choices they willingly made. That makes me think the guy is kind of a selfish putz and I find nothing inspirational about that. TMBS, I certainly don't want to see him fall back into substance abuse, but if he can't even man up and take responsibility for his own actions then no, I don't root for him, and no, I guess I don't really like him.

kaldaniels
10-22-2010, 09:14 AM
Wow. He really blames his drug abuse on 'the devil'? I had no idea. It's pretty lame in my opinion for someone to not take personal responsibility for the choices they willingly made. That makes me think the guy is kind of a selfish putz and I find nothing inspirational about that. TMBS, I certainly don't want to see him fall back into substance abuse, but if he can't even man up and take responsibility for his own actions then no, I don't root for him, and no, I guess I don't really like him.

To be fair he did play for the Devil Rays.

http://downunderverse.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/45311680-300x210.jpg

kaldaniels
10-22-2010, 09:16 AM
But in all seriously, if what some of the above is true, Josh Hamilton uses the devil as his excuse and takes no personal responsibility. Is that accurate...cause thats not cool...but part of me can't imagine him not taking personal responsibility at all. (I'm guessing there are conflicting comments from him myself)

reds1869
10-22-2010, 09:19 AM
But in all seriously, if what some of the above is true, Josh Hamilton uses the devil as his excuse and takes no personal responsibility. Is that accurate...cause thats not cool...but part of me can't imagine him not taking personal responsibility at all. (I'm guessing there are conflicting comments from him myself)

I think it all comes down to one's personal belief structure and world view. In his mind, the devil is a perfectly legitimate explanation. If that works for him, who am I to question it? Whatever source of strength keeps him on the straight and narrow (and on the baseball field) is fine by me.

pedro
10-22-2010, 09:37 AM
I think it all comes down to one's personal belief structure and world view. In his mind, the devil is a perfectly legitimate explanation. If that works for him, who am I to question it? Whatever source of strength keeps him on the straight and narrow (and on the baseball field) is fine by me.

My feeling is that you don't cop out and make excuses for your own choices, regardless of what your spiritual beliefs are. If he believes that fine, that's his right, but be a man, and at least publicly take some personal responsibility. Not doing so is weaselly IMO.

RedsBaron
10-22-2010, 10:22 AM
My feeling is that you don't cop out and make excuses for your own choices, regardless of what your spiritual beliefs are. If he believes that fine, that's his right, but be a man, and at least publicly take some personal responsibility. Not doing so is weaselly IMO.

That isn't what Hamilton has done. Perhaps someone can find some isolated statements soemwhere, but in several articles and interviews that Hamilton has given he has made it clear that he made some bad choices, that he was an addict, that he has no excuse. Josh Hamilton obviously believes in the Devil, but he has also often admitted to his own shortcomings, and I have not read of him simply excusing himself by saying "the devil made me do it."

OldRightHander
10-22-2010, 10:27 AM
If I can go there without violating something, I'll give it a try.

I share Josh's faith, but this is my take on the devil thing. My belief is that the devil can tempt you to do something you shouldn't be doing, but it's still your personal responsibility to do what you will with that temptation, give in to it or resist it. I think that's what Josh believes as well, according to something I heard from him in an interview once. The devil tempted him, but he was stupid and weak to give in to the temptation. Most of us don't really use that as a cop out, although there are probably a few who do.

With that said, I do root for him for several reasons. I'm glad that the Reds were the team that he made his comeback with and he seems a genuinely likeable player. I'm pulling for him on and off the field.

Chip R
10-22-2010, 10:37 AM
I can understand why all of Josh's teammates may not dig his act (not suggesting what he does is an act). In the kind of culture that he is in, there are a lot of people who are not on the straight and narrow. Those people tend to look down on those who are. In Josh's case, having a "handler" - for lack of a better word - with him all the time may lead folks to believe that he's getting special treatment. But, of course, athletes and entertainers get special treatment all the time. Josh just gets a little different special treatment. There is also probably some resentment that he is getting a lot of publicity for his past misdeeds and others who haven't succumbed to those temptations may resent him getting publicity for it when they don't get attention for being a good citizen.

Not to get religious here - which we know is verboten here - I would say if athletes give credit to God or their deity of choice for their accomplishments, wouldn't it make sense for them to blame the Devil for their shortcomings? I understand about personal responsibility and all that but I tend to think that people who credit their deity for their success believe that they themselves had something to do with it too and people who blame the Devil for their misdeeds, know that they were to blame as well for what they did.

pedro
10-22-2010, 10:44 AM
That isn't what Hamilton has done. Perhaps someone can find some isolated statements soemwhere, but in several articles and interviews that Hamilton has given he has made it clear that he made some bad choices, that he was an addict, that he has no excuse. Josh Hamilton obviously believes in the Devil, but he has also often admitted to his own shortcomings, and I have not read of him simply excusing himself by saying "the devil made me do it."

Fair enough. I personally haven't read or seen him do either, I was just reacting to what I read here.

RFS62
10-22-2010, 02:37 PM
Hey, I wrote that post this morning before heading out and just saw the replies.

Re-reading my post, I didn't mean to imply that I ever heard him state "the devil made me do it" verbatim. Seeing the responses, I can see how it came out that way.

I phrased it poorly. My intent was not to quote him verbatim. I have, however, always assumed that this was his position, having known many fundamentalist Christians and understanding what they believe. I am a Christian, just considerably more liberal than many of my close friends. I would never want to offend anyone for their beliefs.

And I certainly wasn't trying to start a religious discussion here, as I know it's forbidden.

So, in my haste I phrased it very poorly, but on the other hand, I'll bet if asked he would answer that way, although I have no first hand knowledge that he would.

Brutus
10-22-2010, 03:20 PM
Hey, I wrote that post this morning before heading out and just saw the replies.

Re-reading my post, I didn't mean to imply that I ever heard him state "the devil made me do it" verbatim. Seeing the responses, I can see how it came out that way.

I phrased it poorly. My intent was not to quote him verbatim. I have, however, always assumed that this was his position, having known many fundamentalist Christians and understanding what they believe. I am a Christian, just considerably more liberal than many of my close friends. I would never want to offend anyone for their beliefs.

And I certainly wasn't trying to start a religious discussion here, as I know it's forbidden.

So, in my haste I phrased it very poorly, but on the other hand, I'll bet if asked he would answer that way, although I have no first hand knowledge that he would.

I would say it's possible he said what you heard, but people confuse that with not taking responsibility for their actions.

I also am a Christian, and it's always been my experience that "the devil made me do it" is a figure of speech that people are always going to be fighting temptation, and that they're to walk the straight and narrow and overcome those issues. It's the idea that we do have choices but 'the devil' will try hard to lead us down the wrong path.

When someone says the devil made me do it, even assuming for a second that was he said verbatim (and I know you've clarified you didn't intend that), I don't think that's to be taken literally as much as a reminder of the concept that there are two forces working against each other, and within the confines of the religious beliefs, it's the job of believers to overcome half of those forces.

OnBaseMachine
10-22-2010, 04:04 PM
I like Josh, I hope he keeps playing well, but for his sake, I hope his wife doesn't watch videos on Youtube. :)

Big Klu
10-22-2010, 04:36 PM
"the devil made me do it"

Any time I hear that phrase, I think of this:

http://www.aolcdn.com/photogalleryassets/bv-ent/380185/flip-wilson-450ms-091908.jpg

(Older RedsZoners will know what I'm talking about.)

RedsBaron
10-22-2010, 04:41 PM
Any time I hear that phrase, I think of this:

http://www.aolcdn.com/photogalleryassets/bv-ent/380185/flip-wilson-450ms-091908.jpg

(Older RedsZoners will know what I'm talking about.)
There are some embarassing photos of Josh Hamilton out there, but as far as I know in none of them is he wearing a dress. ;)
Yeah, I'm old enough to remember Flip Wilson. IIRC his show was on NBC on Thursday nights.

westofyou
10-22-2010, 04:43 PM
Yeah, I'm old enough to remember Flip Wilson. IIRC his show was on NBC on Thursday nights.

Yep, The Waltons came along and stole fans during that time slot

pedro
10-22-2010, 07:48 PM
Yep, The Waltons came along and stole fans during that time slot

Geraldine was not pleased.

RedsManRick
10-22-2010, 10:19 PM
I root for Josh Hamilton the person and any person who is able to bounce back from poor life choices to lead a healthy, productive life and serve as a role model for others who have gone down the wrong road.

As for Josh Hamilton the ball player, I'm ambivalent. He wasn't on my fantasy team, and he's not on the Reds nor playing against them.

wally post
10-22-2010, 10:22 PM
My feelings are simple. He gave us Reds fans a lovely bump in excitement/hope so I root for him to continue to succeed as a player and as a person.

wally post
10-22-2010, 10:23 PM
and Geraldine was hot :)

Phhhl
10-23-2010, 12:10 AM
The Reds took a chance on Josh, and look where he is now. I would like to think he would have had that chance based on his talent and determination to change his life without the intervention of the Wayne Krivsky, but you just don't know that. By his own admission, coming to the major leagues as a rule 5 draft pick basically renewed his enthusiasm for the game. If you were to ask him tonight, on the verge of possibly winning a world championship, I would bet that his feelings towards the Reds lean much more towards a sense of gratitude than any consternation about the trade.

I want to root for this guy. I don't care about the Texas Rangers, but I feel that our organization did a good thing by pulling this keystone player from the depths of hell and giving him a reason to stop destroying his life, to stop destroying his family. With everything Josh Hamilton accomplishes, there is a piece of the Cincinnati Reds that goes with him.

At least, that is how I choose to look at it while I watch in envy of the Texas Rangers going to the World Series...

Dom Heffner
10-23-2010, 12:15 AM
I guarantee you he's not as loved by all his teammates as you think.

There's a lot of people who will tell you that Hamilton turns it "on" and "off" depending on whether he's in public or private.

I don't doubt this one bit. I thought the props to Jesus props were phony baloney. I couldn't stop thinking about the You Tube video of him hitting on a high school girl while he was married.

But he's better by about 1 million car lengths than Volquez, and like Albert Belle, I'd take him in a heartbeat on my team.

Geesh, this city loved Pete Rose just fine and he was about a big of one as they come.

Dom Heffner
10-23-2010, 12:30 AM
Geraldine was not pleased.

Dude my computer screen has food residue on it. Awesome!

Danny Serafini
10-23-2010, 12:53 AM
I'll root for Hamilton the same way I'll root for anyone who once played in Cincinnati. Once a Red, always a Red is the way I look at it. Even if you only donned the wishbone C for one game, you're still part of the family, so I'll be happy for any success you have after you leave Cincinnati (as long as it isn't against the Reds ;)).

Roy Tucker
10-23-2010, 10:29 AM
After some thought, "rooting" is probably a little too extreme of a word for me about Hamilton.

I root for the Reds, i.e. follow them closely, care a lot about them, go to games, yell a lot, throw shoes at the TV set, etc. etc. I am passionate about the Reds.

Hamilton? eeeh.

I hope he does well and I hope he keeps his life on the up and up. But that's about it. Its nowhere remotely near passionate. Its easy when he's in the AL. If he were in the NL, I may not be so benevolent.

Redhook
10-23-2010, 07:48 PM
Yes, I root for him, but I'm much more in awe of his talent than anything else. He's a freak.

Razor Shines
10-23-2010, 10:01 PM
Hey, I wrote that post this morning before heading out and just saw the replies.

Re-reading my post, I didn't mean to imply that I ever heard him state "the devil made me do it" verbatim. Seeing the responses, I can see how it came out that way.

I phrased it poorly. My intent was not to quote him verbatim. I have, however, always assumed that this was his position, having known many fundamentalist Christians and understanding what they believe. I am a Christian, just considerably more liberal than many of my close friends. I would never want to offend anyone for their beliefs.

And I certainly wasn't trying to start a religious discussion here, as I know it's forbidden.

So, in my haste I phrased it very poorly, but on the other hand, I'll bet if asked he would answer that way, although I have no first hand knowledge that he would.

Yeah, in his book he very clearly takes responsibility for his actions.


I don't doubt this one bit. I thought the props to Jesus props were phony baloney. I couldn't stop thinking about the You Tube video of him hitting on a high school girl while he was married.

.
Eh, people see what they want in that clip. You saw someone hitting on a girl because you want to. Others see him sign and autograph and say "so, what are you up to now?" and just think he's being friendly. Truth is neither side really knows. Maybe he was hitting on her, maybe he wasn't. It's not a certainty either way, so we'll continue see what we want in those type of situations with Josh.

Dom Heffner
10-25-2010, 06:04 AM
What are you up to now...well, being since they are both at a baseball game...

I wonder how many male fans he asks that of...

Though perhaps you have a point and Josh is trying to convince these girls to give up their life of sin lol...

http://www.popcrunch.com/josh-hamilton-drunk-photos/

Razor Shines
10-25-2010, 11:49 AM
What are you up to now...well, being since they are both at a baseball game...

I wonder how many male fans he asks that of...

Though perhaps you have a point and Josh is trying to convince these girls to give up their life of sin lol...

http://www.popcrunch.com/josh-hamilton-drunk-photos/

Oh where did you find those pictures, I've never seen them before.

Like I said, everyone will see what they want from that video.

MikeS21
10-25-2010, 04:28 PM
I suppose that there will always be a segment of folks inspired by Josh Hamilton and his story, and another segment of folks who are indifferent. Kudo's to both groups. That's what makes the world go round.

I happen to root for JH because I am inspired by his story. But I also saw the tremendous talent he possessed during his tenure here - even after four years of accumulated rust. I felt that given time, the rust would wear off and the Reds would strike gold. (Plus, it was GREAT thinking that the Reds had made a shrewd move acquiring Hamilton and would be the envy of all baseball!).

WebScorpion
10-27-2010, 06:51 PM
Yes, I root for Josh. I was amazed at how naturally his baseball skills came back to him after years of inactivity and I remembered how he was touted as a once-in-a-generation talent when he was drafted. Watching him play for the Reds was akin to watching Junior play for the Reds that first season. They are just so effortless...it is what they were born to do. I still love to watch him play. All the other stuff is heartwarming and I'm happy for him as another human being, but to me he is an incredibly talented ballplayer who is fun to watch. I wish him all the best on and off the field. :thumbup: