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jwertz
10-26-2010, 06:58 PM
Clearly this team needs to improve its roster in order to really be a serious world series contender. A front of the rotation starter, a run producer to hit behing votto (preferably a right handed bat,) and a leadoff/high OBP guy for the top of the order. What is priority, what needs to be addressed in the offseason, and what can wait until the trade deadline? Listening to Walt Jocketty today on WLW I believe he really values the run producing bat to the middle of the order. He seemed comfortable with the pitching staff as is, and felt the same about the leadoff situation. I tend to agree with Walt. I am not counting on the same level of production from Rolen/Gomes. However, I am expecting added production from Bruce/Stubbs. What are your thoughts?

Votto4MVP
10-26-2010, 07:10 PM
Clearly this team needs to improve its roster in order to really be a serious world series contender. A front of the rotation starter, a run producer to hit behing votto (preferably a right handed bat,) and a leadoff/high OBP guy for the top of the order. What is priority, what needs to be addressed in the offseason, and what can wait until the trade deadline? Listening to Walt Jocketty today on WLW I believe he really values the run producing bat to the middle of the order. He seemed comfortable with the pitching staff as is, and felt the same about the leadoff situation. I tend to agree with Walt. I am not counting on the same level of production from Rolen/Gomes. However, I am expecting added production from Bruce/Stubbs. What are your thoughts?

Matt Kemp. Might cost a lot but I think its worth it.

Power run producing bat that you could hit cleanup and play LF. Had an off year this year as far as average but in 07 hit .342 08 hit .290 and 09 hit .297.
Hit 26 homers for 101 rbis in 09 and 28 for 89 in 2010.

So if he played in GABP I could easily see him hitting close to .300 with 25-30 homers and 100 RBIs.

Also hes 26.

Match him with Bruce and Stubbs and we could have the best outfield in baseball, for the next 4-5 years.


Id trade one of our starters, lets say Bailey or Leake and Alonso or whoever to get him.

1. Stubbs
2. Phillips
3. Votto
4. Kemp
5. Bruce
6. Rolen
7. Hernandez/Hanny/Mez
8. Janish

Rotation would still have 6 of the 7 of Leake, Wood, bailey, Volquez, Cueto, Arroyo, Chapman.

Hell give them 2 starters of necessary.

Championship.

jwertz
10-26-2010, 07:52 PM
My only worry with Kemp is his personality. I understand him to be a bit contentious. I wouldnt want to ruin the clubhouse environment that they have now. If I thought he wouldnt be a problem I would love to have Kemp in left. He is nifty with the glove, good pop, and should improve. He should come pretty cheap.

gedred69
10-26-2010, 08:16 PM
Lead off hitter. Phillip and the team suffered by him hitting lead off. He is a natural free swinging #2, perfect for hitting in front of Votto.

Vottomatic
10-26-2010, 08:39 PM
I'm becoming less interested in trading any of our young starters because I believe this upcoming season several of them will separate themselves from the rest of the pack, maybe even more.

And I definitely think as a whole, the starting pitching will be even more dominant.

If Jay Bruce and Drew Stubbs can continue on the way they finished the season, the offense could be even that more improved.

Also, the Reds may be better seeing how things go next season and then making that trade for an ace at the deadline. There are usually options at the deadline and the Reds may have even more options/prospects to trade next year than they did this year, including having more answers about positions overall into the future. Who knows? Seattle may be in last place again and be willing to trade Sir Felix for a boatload of prospects, and this time, Walt pulls off the right deal.

You never know how things might go. We could be injury plagued and struggle. But our chances are better if we have the depth to overcome it.

Again, I'm becoming more and more comfortable with standing pat. Although a miracle signing of Carl Crawford would probably have me running naked down the streets of Blue Ash screaming for joy. Hehehe.

jwertz
10-27-2010, 08:32 AM
I try to be realistic in my expectations, so I dont think there is a snowballs chance in heck that Carl Crawford, Jason Werth, or Cliff Lee are coming to Cincy. That said, I do believe Walt will suprise us with a signing or two, and a trade. He sounded very interested in adding that other bat. He did kick the tires on Damon last year, and almost brought Cliff Lee to town. So I wouldn't be suprised to see a trade for a middle of the order, all star caliber player. I wouldnt mind, finding a top flight starter either, but those guys are usually available at the trade deadline. Whatever happens I am sure it will be a good move. Walt hasn't let us down yet. Here's a couple names I'd like to throw out there, let me know what you think.

Nick Markakis

Jason Kubel

Girevik
10-27-2010, 09:07 AM
I agree on the pitching....I think we're fine with the guys the Reds have on the roster. As much as I'd love to go get an ace, I think odds that one of the guys on the roster will become that guy outweigh the need to go spend a fortune (in either dollars or prospects) to get one.

I disagree on the leadoff guy, but those guys are few and far between. As much as I'd love to have a Crawford type of guy, I just don't know who that is (assuming Crawford isn't a viable option). There's also the issue of where you'd play that guy.

There are only a couple of spots that look to be open on the team (SS and LF), and I think the Reds need both a leadoff guy and a middle of the order guy. You likely aren't going to find a SS that fits either of those roles, so you're stuck with deciding what type of LF you want to go after. I think the middle of the bat guy is a bigger priority and hope that someone like Stubbs can be your leadoff hitter.

Helms1
10-27-2010, 10:03 AM
You know, I'm leaning towards going all young, from within the system for a couple of years and the heck with high priced vets. I personally think there are about 30k fans that are going to be at the games, about 2.4 million a year, whether we win or are in the hunt. Go low with payroll and it will go down, win big and the upside is not that much. We committed fans have suffered long enough, and we are giddy, but no one is saying throw the baby out with the bathwater to win next year. Yeah, a special talent like Crawford and others ( a certain SS from FLA), get the baby ready for the bucket, but other than that, nail down the Vottos, Bruces and Stubbs of the world, the pitching staff, and go with the young guys. If we win with them, and they blossom, a decade of increasing wins and attendance. If we struggle, I don't think those of us that care will walk away. It's just not time to empty the cupboard for a big season, and we cannot afford that philosophy if we lose the top 5 prospects to get vet talent for a couple of years.

krm1580
10-27-2010, 03:23 PM
The pitching staff is young and still on the upward swing of the career arc so that should improve this year. Paul Janish or Zack Cozart hitting #8 is not going to make or break the season. A middle of the order run producer that can play left is the most obvious spot for improvement. Unfortunately there are not very many viable options.

I think it will be another season of Jonny gomes.

Vottomatic
10-29-2010, 03:39 AM
I like this thread. I agree with most of the comments.

Stray
10-29-2010, 11:47 AM
Maybe I'm in the minority, but I really hope we don't go after Kemp. His numbers aren't that great, and they don't make him worth the amount he'd be making for a minimal upgrade. I'd love a leadoff hitter or a real bat behind Votto, and I agree with those saying they're comfortable with where our pitching staff is at the moment.

PeteRoseBelongs
10-29-2010, 12:16 PM
I am not sure I agree with the comment " another year of Johnny Gomes" as though that is a really bad thing. if you compare Gomes to many Left Fielders in the game he had better production than the likes of Soriano in Chicago who is getting paid big dollars.

I would like to see some of the young guys get a shot. Dave Seppelt, Frazier, Cozart and the list goes on and on. Hey guys the Reds have been beating us to death with the youth movement for years. Lets allow the youth to step up and shine.

brm7675
10-29-2010, 12:37 PM
Pitching is fine, don't touch anything.
SS is fine, put Janish there, bat him 8th and you are good
LF needs an upgrade, I can live with seeing what Heisey can do playing everyday, but have no issue dealing a pitcher/AAA player for a confirmed power hitting LF

krm1580
10-29-2010, 02:56 PM
I am not sure I agree with the comment " another year of Johnny Gomes" as though that is a really bad thing. if you compare Gomes to many Left Fielders in the game he had better production than the likes of Soriano in Chicago who is getting paid big dollars.

I would like to see some of the young guys get a shot. Dave Seppelt, Frazier, Cozart and the list goes on and on. Hey guys the Reds have been beating us to death with the youth movement for years. Lets allow the youth to step up and shine.

I would not say it is a bad thing per se, but there are a couple of points I probably need to make to better support my statement.

Jonny Gomes is essentially a 1 tool guy - power. In 2009 he was slugging at a .541 clip and was brought back with the belief if he was close to that number as a full time player, the benefits would outweigh his liabilities. Well he ended up slugging .431, which was largely driven by a huge June. If you throw out June, he was slugging .375. Not what you want from your LF and we have not even talked about his defensive shortcomings.

Entering the 2011 season, I only expect Bruce and Stubbs to have any significant improvement on their 2010 numbers. I expect Rolen to decline by a signifcant amount and the catching tandem to be less productive. So where do you get better? Its possible Gomes could improve, but his career indicates 2010 is much more the normal than 2009. That is why I think LF needs to be addressed with a better option than Gomes.

The question of how becomes problematic. As I mentioned before I don't see many good options around. Of the guys mentioned earlier, Kubel signed today. Markakis would be nice but has a huge contract. Some people want Kemp but the Reds batting order is already highly "pitchable" due to the cluster of high strikeout guys and his 170/53 K to BB ratio is more of the same.

If I was thinking WAY outside the box, maybe they go out and get a Bill Butler from KC. He plays LF, badly, but he is right handed, has good power that is still developing and is a very, very good hitter that does not swing at every pitch thrown. Put him in the 4 spot behind Votto and the offense looks a lot more formidable.

KC has a bunch of 1B, DH type guys coming up through the minors so they might move him.

mattfeet
10-29-2010, 05:25 PM
I'm becoming less interested in trading any of our young starters because I believe this upcoming season several of them will separate themselves from the rest of the pack, maybe even more.

And I definitely think as a whole, the starting pitching will be even more dominant.

If Jay Bruce and Drew Stubbs can continue on the way they finished the season, the offense could be even that more improved.

Also, the Reds may be better seeing how things go next season and then making that trade for an ace at the deadline. There are usually options at the deadline and the Reds may have even more options/prospects to trade next year than they did this year, including having more answers about positions overall into the future. Who knows? Seattle may be in last place again and be willing to trade Sir Felix for a boatload of prospects, and this time, Walt pulls off the right deal.

You never know how things might go. We could be injury plagued and struggle. But our chances are better if we have the depth to overcome it.

Again, I'm becoming more and more comfortable with standing pat. Although a miracle signing of Carl Crawford would probably have me running naked down the streets of Blue Ash screaming for joy. Hehehe.
You live too close to me...I might see that. Gimme a heads up so I can turn the other way. ;)

-Matt

jwertz
10-29-2010, 09:57 PM
I like the idea of Billy Butler hitting behind Votto. Does anyone know his contract status(salary/years remaining?) I am sure he would come cheap. How is his defense? It is an interesting name. I am in love with Nick Markakis's game. Good defense, good speed, hits for average, has some pop, doesn't strike out... hit him in the 3 hole and slide Votto in the cleanup spot. It is a stretch, but I think it could work... only problem would be the price in prospects. Would Baltimore be willing to part with him? Another interesting name is Nolan Reimold, oddly enough he plays in the same outfield. From what I understand they have soured on him a bit in Baltimore and could be a bargain. I wouldn't be interested in trading a prospect for another prospect, but he has good tools. I wouldn't be opposed to throwing a Balentine, or similar type farmhand at them. I am open to disagreement. Nothing is more fun than speculating on free agency and/or trades.

Vottomatic
10-30-2010, 10:06 AM
I like the idea of Billy Butler hitting behind Votto. Does anyone know his contract status(salary/years remaining?) I am sure he would come cheap. How is his defense? It is an interesting name. I am in love with Nick Markakis's game. Good defense, good speed, hits for average, has some pop, doesn't strike out... hit him in the 3 hole and slide Votto in the cleanup spot. It is a stretch, but I think it could work... only problem would be the price in prospects. Would Baltimore be willing to part with him? Another interesting name is Nolan Reimold, oddly enough he plays in the same outfield. From what I understand they have soured on him a bit in Baltimore and could be a bargain. I wouldn't be interested in trading a prospect for another prospect, but he has good tools. I wouldn't be opposed to throwing a Balentine, or similar type farmhand at them. I am open to disagreement. Nothing is more fun than speculating on free agency and/or trades.

Markakis is signed through '14 ('11-$10.6M, '12-$12.35M, '13-$15.35M, '14-$15.52M). He's a guy you'd have to trade alot to get and then he has a big contract on top of it. That alone will prevent the Reds from doing it. Markakis is a good average (.298 career), good OBP (.368 career), moderate power (12 HR's, 45 doubles in '10), some speed (43 SB's in 5 seasons), who walks alot. Perfect guy for the 3 hole, and I agree, move Joey to the 4-hole.

Butler will turn 25 next April. He has played most of his career at 1B, but did play 6 games in LF a few years back. Not sure if that is an indication he played the OF in the minors or not. He bats right, and in 4 seasons has a career average of .299 with an OBP of .359. All of his stats are trending upward right now. He hit 15 HR's last season and 21 the season before. Interesting idea.

The Reds could never pry Justin Upton away from the D-Backs, but if they could, he would make a good leadoff hitter. In 3 seasons, he has a career OBP of .352. He's averaged close to 20 stolen bases the last 2 seasons. Has power, but defensively is challenged at times. His salary jumps to $4.5M in '11 and increases through '14 to like $15M.

Lots of possibilities. I like the Butler idea. But he is headed to arbitration or would have to be signed. Still would like to know if he has played outfield extensively in his past.

jwertz
10-30-2010, 10:54 AM
In a dream world I would try and get Stephen Drew away from Arizona, and Greinke, and Butler/Gordon from K.C. I just don't have much faith in Janish. He plays outstanding defense, but he looks awful at the plate. Looks like he could get the bat knocked out of his hands. Hit the weight room Paul. Drew would be a big improvement at the plate. Greinke brings ace stuff, and Cy Young pedigree, and Butler could hit 4. Gordon has massive potential, and has played left field. Gordon would come cheap and could slide into third when Rolen is out, could be there full time when Rolen retires. So many possibilities, if only it were this easy. Obviously we need to concentrate on locking down our big three (Votto, Stubbs, Bruce.) I so love baseball.

Old NDN
10-30-2010, 12:18 PM
I would take a serious look at Brandon Webb. If he is healthy enough, I would offer him an incentive laden contract. I think he would at least consider Cincy. It's closer to home, which he has desired, and the Reds are a definite contender with lots of young players. Signing him would allow the Reds to possibly move one of their young starters in a deal for a LF/leadoff man, and give them a bonafide TOR pitcher. IF he's healthy.

lonewolf371
10-31-2010, 10:45 AM
I would take a serious look at Brandon Webb. If he is healthy enough, I would offer him an incentive laden contract. I think he would at least consider Cincy. It's closer to home, which he has desired, and the Reds are a definite contender with lots of young players. Signing him would allow the Reds to possibly move one of their young starters in a deal for a LF/leadoff man, and give them a bonafide TOR pitcher. IF he's healthy.
There's a lot of risk involved. Signing Webb would still cost a lot of money, and if he doesn't pan out well then it could be disastrous for a small-market team like the Reds.

The Reds should spend big bucks on their own players that are sure things, and only look for bargains in their trades in free agency.

Hustleman
10-31-2010, 05:36 PM
if the sox go after carl crawford, i'd love to see if we could get ellsbury for cheap.

krm1580
11-01-2010, 12:16 PM
Markakis is signed through '14 ('11-$10.6M, '12-$12.35M, '13-$15.35M, '14-$15.52M). He's a guy you'd have to trade alot to get and then he has a big contract on top of it. That alone will prevent the Reds from doing it. Markakis is a good average (.298 career), good OBP (.368 career), moderate power (12 HR's, 45 doubles in '10), some speed (43 SB's in 5 seasons), who walks alot. Perfect guy for the 3 hole, and I agree, move Joey to the 4-hole.

Butler will turn 25 next April. He has played most of his career at 1B, but did play 6 games in LF a few years back. Not sure if that is an indication he played the OF in the minors or not. He bats right, and in 4 seasons has a career average of .299 with an OBP of .359. All of his stats are trending upward right now. He hit 15 HR's last season and 21 the season before. Interesting idea.

The Reds could never pry Justin Upton away from the D-Backs, but if they could, he would make a good leadoff hitter. In 3 seasons, he has a career OBP of .352. He's averaged close to 20 stolen bases the last 2 seasons. Has power, but defensively is challenged at times. His salary jumps to $4.5M in '11 and increases through '14 to like $15M.

Lots of possibilities. I like the Butler idea. But he is headed to arbitration or would have to be signed. Still would like to know if he has played outfield extensively in his past.

Butler played a couple of full seasons as an OF in the minors, but he is not a good OF by any means. He will catch what comes to him but his range is awful and he is probably on par with Adam Dunn.

With that being said, my argument would be this. Defensively he is bad, but with Bruce and Stubbs ability to cover so much ground in the outfield his limitations would be masked to a certain extent. Offensively I think he is exactly what the Reds need, a very, very good right handed middle of the order bat that does not strikeout excessively. I think you put him in the middle of a good lineup where he gets more pitches to hit rather than the chaff he is surrounded by in KC and his numbers take a pretty good jump.

757690
11-01-2010, 03:07 PM
if the sox go after carl crawford, i'd love to see if we could get ellsbury for cheap.

Elsbury's a great target for the Reds, even if the Sox don't get Crawford. They love Reddick.

jwertz
11-01-2010, 06:56 PM
I would love to see Ellsburys speed at the top of the order, but he is injured constantly. I am sure we could swing a deal for him, but I really don't want to take a chance on him. Would it be safe to say that Butler's defense is comparable to what we have with Gomes? If so, I would say go for it. Is he available? What would K.C. want for him?

Vottomatic
11-01-2010, 09:08 PM
I actually think you get slightly better defense with Butler in LF (than Gomes) and a more efficient hitter. Plus he's still relatively young which makes him a longer term solution than some other alternatives.

RedLakerFan24
11-01-2010, 09:28 PM
Carlos Quentin batting behind Votto would be great, Alonso for Quentin.

NeilHamburger
11-01-2010, 09:34 PM
Ryan Ludwick. He plays very good defense, after his performance in San Diego I've gotta figure they are looking to trade him, and in this park I could see him putting up this line:

.290 average, 25 home runs, 100 RBI's and a .350 OBP.

And I don't think he'll cost a ton.

Hustleman
11-02-2010, 02:05 AM
I would love to see Ellsburys speed at the top of the order, but he is injured constantly. I am sure we could swing a deal for him, but I really don't want to take a chance on him. Would it be safe to say that Butler's defense is comparable to what we have with Gomes? If so, I would say go for it. Is he available? What would K.C. want for him?

as far as ellsbury, the only legit injury concern I know of was after the collision with beltre. he came back and re-injured himself but is cleared for next season i believe.


billy butler intrigues me though. no thanks to carlos quentin

nmculbreth
11-02-2010, 05:22 PM
I'm not sure I understand all of the love for Butler. I like his bat well enough but he's blocked at his primary position by Votto and I don't think he has the ability to play even an adequate LF. Frankly that sounds a whole lot like Alonso, only he'd be significantly more expensive given that he's getting into his arbitration years.

IMHO if the Reds are looking to trade with the Royals they'd be smart to target Alex Gordon rather than Butler. He won't cost nearly as much to acquire and could offer a back-up / future replacement for Rolen.

Otherwise I like the suggestions of Ellsbury, Ludwick and Quentin.

Pony Boy
11-03-2010, 09:35 AM
I know it is a pipe dream, but hypothetically, what would it take to swing a trade for Ryan Braun? I just feel like he would be the perfect fit in this lineup.

krm1580
11-03-2010, 11:28 AM
I'm not sure I understand all of the love for Butler. I like his bat well enough but he's blocked at his primary position by Votto and I don't think he has the ability to play even an adequate LF. Frankly that sounds a whole lot like Alonso, only he'd be significantly more expensive given that he's getting into his arbitration years.

IMHO if the Reds are looking to trade with the Royals they'd be smart to target Alex Gordon rather than Butler. He won't cost nearly as much to acquire and could offer a back-up / future replacement for Rolen.

Otherwise I like the suggestions of Ellsbury, Ludwick and Quentin.

Well I brought his name up so I guess I will answer it. I don't love Butler, but I think the Reds need a plus right handed bat in their order, peferably one that can play LF and I don't see any good readilly available options so I was trying to think outside the box.

Is his defense bad, yes, but unlike Jonny Gomes I believe his bat would more than outweigh his defensive shortcomings.

Comparing him to Alonso defensively is probably fair, but I don't think their bats are even close. They are only a year apart in age but Butler is putting up better numbers in the majors than Alonso has in the minors. If you want to take it a step further Butler was a .917 OPS guy in the minors as a teenager, whereas Alonso is a .826 guy after having played in a major college program for 3 years.

Unless you get Alex Gordon for a bag of batting practice balls, I don't want him. He is not a young guy. He will be 27 by opening day this year and has pretty much moved backwards since he first came up. He might just need a change of location, but at this point he looks like a AAAA player.

As far as Ludwick, Quentin and Ellsbury, they are all arbitration elligable this coming season the same as Butler so they are not going to be cheap either.

Like I said I don't think there are any really good options to upgrade LF and I don't expect anything to happen. I just hope they don't do something dumb like go out and sign Rick Ankiel <cringe>

Pony- You are right about Ryan Braun being an ideal solution in a perfect world. The problem is from a "value" perspective, Ryan is probably right behind Evan Longoria as the most valuable asset in baseball when you combine his production with that sweet 8year/45 million dollar contract. He also has the first 5 years of the contract with full no trade clause so realistically I think he is unattainable.

Vottomatic
11-03-2010, 05:32 PM
Well I brought his name up so I guess I will answer it. I don't love Butler, but I think the Reds need a plus right handed bat in their order, peferably one that can play LF and I don't see any good readilly available options so I was trying to think outside the box.

Is his defense bad, yes, but unlike Jonny Gomes I believe his bat would more than outweigh his defensive shortcomings.

Comparing him to Alonso defensively is probably fair, but I don't think their bats are even close. They are only a year apart in age but Butler is putting up better numbers in the majors than Alonso has in the minors. If you want to take it a step further Butler was a .917 OPS guy in the minors as a teenager, whereas Alonso is a .826 guy after having played in a major college program for 3 years.

Unless you get Alex Gordon for a bag of batting practice balls, I don't want him. He is not a young guy. He will be 27 by opening day this year and has pretty much moved backwards since he first came up. He might just need a change of location, but at this point he looks like a AAAA player.

As far as Ludwick, Quentin and Ellsbury, they are all arbitration elligable this coming season the same as Butler so they are not going to be cheap either.

Like I said I don't think there are any really good options to upgrade LF and I don't expect anything to happen. I just hope they don't do something dumb like go out and sign Rick Ankiel <cringe>

Pony- You are right about Ryan Braun being an ideal solution in a perfect world. The problem is from a "value" perspective, Ryan is probably right behind Evan Longoria as the most valuable asset in baseball when you combine his production with that sweet 8year/45 million dollar contract. He also has the first 5 years of the contract with full no trade clause so realistically I think he is unattainable.

I agree about Gordon. He's not a young'un anymore and his numbers are regressing. Agree that if you get him for almost nothing, he'd be worth a chance to see if he rebounds his career. But I don't trade much for him. He could be an interesting alternative as a backup to Rolen or future replacement. But only if his offense returns.

David Cubbedge
11-04-2010, 05:49 PM
Jocketty is looking for a leadoff hitter. We still have a hole in LF unless they think Gomes is our guy, which is something I honestly doubt. Crawford is too expensive but would fit the mold of the leadoff LFer. Podsednik? I hope not, but it's possible. I would hope Jocketty would look in Grady Sizemore's direction a little...

jwertz
11-04-2010, 07:09 PM
I am terrified of Grady Sizemore. He has DL written all over him. No way do I take a chance on that guy. If Crawford goes to Boston will Ellsbury be available, and what is the price tag? If he chooses New York what do they do with Brett Gardner(spelling)? Either way Carl Crawford is not comming to Cincy... he is simply too expensive, and probably has zero desire to play in another mid to small market. If you could promise me that Sizemore would play the entire year without injury I would be all over it, but you can't make that promise. Whatever happens this winter could determine the pennant. This team is right there, they just need one or two guys to push them over the edge.

webbbj
11-04-2010, 08:28 PM
i was reading on reds.com it said the reds will be quiet in FA but are looking for a leadoff hitter. so what is considered a low budget option that is good? maybe someone that has had some good years but has fell off, hoping to recapture their early success?

what about trades? do we all forsee all the starters coming back? aswell as alonso? maybe trade maloney or lecure to fill a role and give them an opportunity elsewhere?

David Cubbedge
11-04-2010, 11:38 PM
i was reading on reds.com it said the reds will be quiet in FA but are looking for a leadoff hitter. so what is considered a low budget option that is good? maybe someone that has had some good years but has fell off, hoping to recapture their early success?

Which is why I think Sizemore could be a benefit at a good cost. Possible low risk/high reward. He still wouldn't settle the cleanup spot issue as Rolen will no longer fit the bill either. But he would gather the need for a leadoff guy.


what about trades? do we all forsee all the starters coming back? aswell as alonso? maybe trade maloney or lecure to fill a role and give them an opportunity elsewhere?

What are some of the Reds valuable trade pieces?

Alonso
Wood/Bailey
Maloney

And what do we need to upgrade now?

LF
SS
need another catcher unless Mesoraco is ready to backup Hanigan.

nmculbreth
11-05-2010, 12:15 AM
The only way that I could see the Reds getting acquiring Sizemore would be if the Indians are willing to pick up part of his salary. He is due $7.5mil next season and it's kind of hard to see the Reds taking on that kind of payroll obligation for a guy who has watched his numbers decline in each of the past two seasons and has had trouble staying healthy.

That's an awfully big gamble for a team like the Reds.

I do like the idea of targeting Gardner if the Yankees make a run at Carl Crawford but I'm not sure the Reds have much to offer that would interest the Yankees and I'd assume they'd rather try to move Granderson and hold onto Gardner anyway.

scott91575
11-05-2010, 12:53 AM
Which is why I think Sizemore could be a benefit at a good cost. Possible low risk/high reward. He still wouldn't settle the cleanup spot issue as Rolen will no longer fit the bill either. But he would gather the need for a leadoff guy.



What are some of the Reds valuable trade pieces?

Alonso
Wood/Bailey
Maloney

And what do we need to upgrade now?

LF
SS
need another catcher unless Mesoraco is ready to backup Hanigan.

I think the only place of emphasis should be LF. SS and C are places where you have to pay an arm and a leg for anything decent, let alone an upgrade over Janish or Hanigan/Mesaraco (they still might sign Ramon, so C might be a moot point).

I know Gomes is signed, but the money he got is not enough to assure him a starting spot. I really like him off the bench anyway.

Finally, there really needs to be a good utility guy that can play third. Not sure who that would be, but that needs to be determined in the off season too.

scott91575
11-05-2010, 12:58 AM
The only way that I could see the Reds getting acquiring Sizemore would be if the Indians are willing to pick up part of his salary. He is due $7.5mil next season and it's kind of hard to see the Reds taking on that kind of payroll obligation for a guy who has watched his numbers decline in each of the past two seasons and has had trouble staying healthy.

That's an awfully big gamble for a team like the Reds.

I do like the idea of targeting Gardner if the Yankees make a run at Carl Crawford but I'm not sure the Reds have much to offer that would interest the Yankees and I'd assume they'd rather try to move Granderson and hold onto Gardner anyway.

Even teams like the Yankees will happily take young starting pitching.

I wouldn't mind Granderson if the Yanks ate much of his contract. It wouldn't take much to get him, he would add a left handed bat with speed and defense. He is not the best, but he hits right handers pretty well. A platoon with Gomes and Granderson in left (with Granderson taking center every now and then) would be pretty good.

Roush's socks
11-05-2010, 02:59 AM
Great points on this thread. I really don't think the Reds will do much in the FA department. The big question for me is whether they will trade one of the starters- Bailey, Leake or mmaayybbbeee Cueto, only if the offer is someone of serious value. They could also keep everyone and start the 2011 season with Leake and Chapman in AAA. But with Maloney and Lecure already in AAA as insurance, that seems like a lot of starters fighting for 5 spots. Of course injuries happen and maybe they want to keep all their options and see how it plays out.

As far as Gomes and LF. He is an average player. Anyone with a .760 OPS and 18 HR's is not a total waste. He is the kind of guy who doesn't make you better or worse. For the Reds to find someone who is guaranteed to be sustantially better- .850 OPS with better defense-- would be expensive and there just aren't that many players available who fit that bill.

It seems like some of the Reds prospects don't fit the needs of the teams. Alonso is blocked by Votto and can't play LF. Fransisco is a crappy 3B and is looking more and more like a DH if he can hit enough to deserve it. Maloney and Lecure are in no man's land. Dorn has never been taken seriously. These guys might get traded if anyone wants them.

Always hard to speculate about trades because we don't know what kind of deals are being shopped around. The Reds have a lot of young talent and they just might make some big trade.

Roush's socks
11-05-2010, 03:03 AM
Finding someone to play 3B at least 40-60 games this year is a need. Rolen seemed to age 3-4 years in just a few months.

jwertz
11-05-2010, 08:21 AM
I know most of us don't want to hear it, including myself, but maybe the best course of action is just to sit on what we have. It is highly possible that we have both of our needs in the clubhouse already. If Jay Bruce can hit the way he is able, and do so on a consistant basis we already have our cleanup hitter. Despite what some people think hitting lefties back to back is not a sin. Also, if Drew Stubbs can learn how to bunt, and shorten his swing, we have our leadoff guy. If Drew cuts down on his strikeouts, we have a faster less injury prone "Grady Sizemore." That said, how often do two young players hit their stride simultaneously? I do think that bringing in a guy like Scot Podsednik would be a solution for left and leadoff for a year or two. Good defense, and can still steal bases with regularity. This takes a little pressure off of Stubbs, allowing him to learn the "tricks of the trade." I really don't want Hernandez back, save the money, start Hannigan, call up the young fella. I am by no means a major league baseball general manager, so I will trust Walt to make the needed improvements to the roster.

scott91575
11-05-2010, 01:55 PM
As far as Gomes and LF. He is an average player. Anyone with a .760 OPS and 18 HR's is not a total waste. He is the kind of guy who doesn't make you better or worse. For the Reds to find someone who is guaranteed to be sustantially better- .850 OPS with better defense-- would be expensive and there just aren't that many players available who fit that bill.


He is average with the bat. In the field, he is atrocious. That is the problem, and it makes him a sub par player. There are plenty that can fit the bill better than him. The question is the cost, and if this team can afford it.

lonewolf371
11-05-2010, 03:00 PM
I think they've made it clear on reds.com that Crawford is totally out of the pitcher. I think what the Reds are looking at is possibly getting Gardner/Ellsbury from whoever signs Crawford or getting Scott Podsednik in free agency. Earlier I know Crisp was discussed, but it looks like his option was picked up.

Gardner would probably be the best:
BA: .277 OBP: .273 SB: 47
And the highest UZR in baseball for 2010.

Ellsbury in 2009 before injury:
BA: .301 OBP: .355 SB: 70

Coco Crisp:
BA: .279 OBP: .342 SB: 32

Scott Podsednik:
BA: .297 OBP: .342 SB: 35

Personally, I'd be happy with any of those guys at leadoff.

nmculbreth
11-05-2010, 05:36 PM
Even teams like the Yankees will happily take young starting pitching.

I wouldn't mind Granderson if the Yanks ate much of his contract. It wouldn't take much to get him, he would add a left handed bat with speed and defense. He is not the best, but he hits right handers pretty well. A platoon with Gomes and Granderson in left (with Granderson taking center every now and then) would be pretty good.

Granderson is an interesting target, but I can't imagine that the Reds could find a way to afford him even if the Yankees were willing to pick up a decent chunk of his salary. He is due $8.25mil next season, $10mil in 2012 and has a club option for $13mil for 2013 with a $2mil buyout.

The Reds have a been fortunate that a lot of their young players have been very cheap up until this point but with Phillips, Votto, Bruce, Cueto and Volquez all becoming more expensive, I can't see sinking $20mil+ on a guy like Granderson.

scott91575
11-05-2010, 06:02 PM
Granderson is an interesting target, but I can't imagine that the Reds could find a way to afford him even if the Yankees were willing to pick up a decent chunk of his salary. He is due $8.25mil next season, $10mil in 2012 and has a club option for $13mil for 2013 with a $2mil buyout.

The Reds have a been fortunate that a lot of their young players have been very cheap up until this point but with Phillips, Votto, Bruce, Cueto and Volquez all becoming more expensive, I can't see sinking $20mil+ on a guy like Granderson.

Look at how much Houston paid Philly to take Oswalt. If the deal is right, the Yankees will pick up 1/2 or maybe more of his contract. They have the money. If they see him as being done as a Yankee, they will easily pay a ton of money to get better prospects. They could easily give up $10 million, and then his contract becomes reasonable ($5 million a year assuming a buyout). A combo of Gomes and Granderson in left field for under $7 million is not bad (could be even less if the Yankees really have no plan for him).

Of course this is all just spitballing, and who knows what would actually happen. I agree, he is no where near worth his contract. Yet if he can be reduced to the $4-5 million a year range he becomes much more attractive.

RedLakerFan24
11-05-2010, 08:49 PM
Frazier + Maloney for Mike Aviles

Vottomatic
11-06-2010, 01:31 PM
Ellsbury doesn't turn 28 until next September. He could recover from injury and get back to his pre-injury numbers, he'd be my #1 target if the Red Sox sign Crawford and put Ellsbury on the trading block.

malcontent
11-06-2010, 02:26 PM
Finding someone to play 3B at least 40-60 games this year is a need. Rolen seemed to age 3-4 years in just a few months.
I'd be interested to know what the medical staff knows about Rolen.

I agree that Walt has to have a plan B in place in case Rolen doesn't magically improve over the winter. And I don't mean Cairo.

The physical issues didn't just affect his offense, they affected his defense as well. I assume it was the back...he looked to be 55 years old out there.

That said, I also think Frazier should be planted at 3B in Louisville next year.

David Cubbedge
11-06-2010, 10:11 PM
I imagine Renteria could be on Jocketty's radar...

jwertz
11-07-2010, 09:13 AM
No way do I want Edgar Renteria on this team. He is more expensive than Cabrera, and his playoff numbers did not reflect his poor regular season. I am in favor of starting Janish and having Cozart back him up. Locking up our young talent should be our number 1 priority. Jocketty has suprised us before, I wouldn't be shocked to see a larger than expected bump in salary this year. I like the idea of swinging a trade for a big bat, or bringing in a cheap leadoff option like Podsednik. With Bruce, and Stubbs improving at the plate, Votto doing his thing, Rolen hopefully healthy, and contributions from the bench this offense should be as good as it was latter. I like the Butler idea, as well as Podsednik, and Kemp, and I can dream about Grienke, but all of this is speculation. I also think it is time Frazier was up with the club, I like his bat more than I like Alonso, Heisey, and Fransisco.

Trace's Daddy
11-07-2010, 10:08 AM
trade for Nyjer Morgan and platoon him with Gomes in left :)

BEETTLEBUG
11-07-2010, 10:25 AM
No on Morgan he is a jerk.

DocRed
11-07-2010, 10:52 AM
trade for Nyjer Morgan and platoon him with Gomes in left :)

We can play him anytime we play St. Louis :)

757690
11-08-2010, 01:53 PM
What about Manny? He can't be worse in LF than Gomes defensively, but he can actually justify it with his bat. He should come cheap too, probably around $5M a season.

mr. red
11-08-2010, 02:32 PM
I can see us keeping it simple and signing a guy like Scott Podsednik. He can be our leadoff guy, play LF. Would I like a Jacoby Ellsbury? Yes. Will it happen? No. Podsednik would add lethal speed to our lineup.

Hustleman
11-08-2010, 04:08 PM
What about Manny? He can't be worse in LF than Gomes defensively, but he can actually justify it with his bat. He should come cheap too, probably around $5M a season.

no thanks. i dont think his bat can make up for it anymore and i dont think he'd take 5 mil a season

Roush's socks
11-08-2010, 04:20 PM
Will the Reds use Juan Fransisco as the backup 3B to Rolen? I think they need to limit Rolen to 100-120 games, which would leave quite a bit of playing time for someone. If JF isn't the guy then they will need to find someone. Cairo doesn't have the glove to play that much 3B even if he is brought back. The only other guy I see in the org who do it is Frazier, but that would be a stretch. If they don't re-sign Cairo, they might look for a utility type veteran who can play 3B.

jwertz
11-08-2010, 05:46 PM
No on Morgan, and no on Manny. I don't want any character issues in the clubhouse. I do think Fransisco is going to be good. Just like most young sluggers he needs to be much more selective at the plate. His defense is better than most give him credit for. I agree Frazier needs to be on the team this season. I am more high on him than I am Heisey, and Valaika. If we decide to trade Fransisco, Frazier will be my choice at third as a backup, and into the future. From what I understand Podsednik is the best fit for us as well as him. As low key as this off season should be, next year should be pretty interesting with Cordero, and Phillips coming off the books. If I was making the moves I would sign Podsednik, extend Votto, Cueto, Bruce, Stubbs, see what we have at the deadline and throw all I have at a top of the rotation guy. Also, it is looking more and more like Ellsbury will be available, question is how much are the sox asking for.

malcontent
11-08-2010, 06:41 PM
Podsednik would add lethal speed to our lineup.
And havoc on the basepaths?

Vottomatic
11-08-2010, 08:23 PM
Podsednik, our new Lethal Weapon. :eek:

Roush's socks
11-08-2010, 10:15 PM
I don't see how Podsednik would be any better than Gomes/Nyx or Gomes and Heisey. Why bother with someone who isn't an upgrade.

Vottomatic
11-09-2010, 08:06 AM
I'm joking about Podsednik. Not really interested. If they signed him, I'd give him a chance, but personally I'd rather go with what we got than get him.

Unless they make a real splash for a game changer, I stick with what we have.

jwertz
11-09-2010, 08:18 AM
From what I understand, Walt is not really looking into the free agent market as a way to improve this team. Maybe he has a few trade options, or maybe he is just going to go into the season with the roster as is. I personally think this is a mistake, as the Reds clearly need a couple pieces to improve their world series chances. But, there is a reason that Walt is the baseball exec. of the year, and I am in pharmacy. I will trust him with the baseball decisions. I am excited for the winter meetings, as I am every year. We will see what happens there.

Vottomatic
11-09-2010, 11:27 PM
I hear Walt is going to call Dan O'Brien and Wayne Krivsky this offseason and ask them what they would do. :D

RedLakerFan24
11-10-2010, 04:05 AM
Reds- Jacoby Ellsbury
Red Sox- Adrian Gonzalez
Padres- Homer Bailey, Yonder Alonso, Todd Frazier, Jed Lowrie

Reds- Jason Bartlett
Rays- Matt Moloney, Chris Heisey

Reds Line Up

1. LF Jacoby Ellsbury
2. SS Jason Bartlett
3. 1B Joey Votto
4. 3B Scott Rolen
5. RF Jay Bruce
6. 2B Brandon Phillips
7. CF Drew Stubbs
8. C Ryan Hanigan/Ramon Hernandez

jwertz
11-10-2010, 07:56 AM
I love the trade ideas, but I am so reluctant to give up on Frazier. He is my favorite prospect. Can we replace him with Fransisco? And I don't think it will take that much to move Ellsbury, I think the Sox have moved on from him. I have no idea why, when healthy he plays decent defense, when moved away from a tricky left field in Fenway to a pedestrian left field at GABP it should improve. He has an above average bat, but with little to no pop. That shouldn't be a factor as he obviously would be leading off. The x factor with this guy would be his wheels. Seventy stolen bases in front of Phillips and Votto should score a ton of runs. Besides that our out field would be the fastest in baseball. I would pay money to see Stubbs and Ellsbury run a 40 yard dash. I love this idea, but would it work. I think it all depends on if the Red Sox get Carl Crawford. If not I don't think they move Ellsbury. I am getting all excited. I really hope Walt makes something happen.

krm1580
11-10-2010, 10:44 AM
Reds- Jacoby Ellsbury
Red Sox- Adrian Gonzalez
Padres- Homer Bailey, Yonder Alonso, Todd Frazier, Jed Lowrie

Reds- Jason Bartlett
Rays- Matt Moloney, Chris Heisey

Reds Line Up

1. LF Jacoby Ellsbury
2. SS Jason Bartlett
3. 1B Joey Votto
4. 3B Scott Rolen
5. RF Jay Bruce
6. 2B Brandon Phillips
7. CF Drew Stubbs
8. C Ryan Hanigan/Ramon Hernandez

I think you are vastly overvaluing Ellsbury. Let me put it to you this way. The best OPS of his entire career is .012 higher that Gomes had this year. He is a career .344 OBP guy which is slightly above league average, but hardly ideal for a leadoff hitter. When you throw in the fact that he is already 27, the one outstanding skill he has, stealing bases, is going to start to decline.

I think he does have value and would help the Reds out. I might trade Frazier straight up or Alonso straight up, but even that might be overpaying considering he is coming off an injury

bounty37h
11-10-2010, 11:41 AM
Wow, thats steep, 3 for 1? I personally dont think Alonso will amount to much for us and is likely trade bait, but he is a big prospect so think we are overpaying in that scenario for an Ellsbury.




Reds- Jacoby Ellsbury
Red Sox- Adrian Gonzalez
Padres- Homer Bailey, Yonder Alonso, Todd Frazier, Jed Lowrie

Reds- Jason Bartlett
Rays- Matt Moloney, Chris Heisey

Reds Line Up

1. LF Jacoby Ellsbury
2. SS Jason Bartlett
3. 1B Joey Votto
4. 3B Scott Rolen
5. RF Jay Bruce
6. 2B Brandon Phillips
7. CF Drew Stubbs
8. C Ryan Hanigan/Ramon Hernandez

lonewolf371
11-11-2010, 11:16 AM
Asking prices for SP are so high. I'd be interested if the Reds could deal a load of prospects for Josh Johnson or Zack Greinke, but the problem is that would probably clear out the farm.