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Redsfan320
10-31-2010, 08:37 AM
Might as well keep them separate

D-backs are after Paul Konerko (1B- CWS)

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Scrap Irony
10-31-2010, 08:58 AM
If the D-Backs grab Konerko, Chicago would make a great trading partner.

An Alonso and Maloney for Carlos Quentin deal would be ideal for both parties (though that may be overpaying).

Redsfan320
10-31-2010, 09:07 AM
Hmm:evil:... with the ChiSox after Rasmus... and the D-backs after Konerko from the Sox... put 2 and 2 and 2 together... do I see some sort of blockbuster with Pujols going to the other league? Is there any hope of this happening? :evil:

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Redsfan320
10-31-2010, 11:20 AM
Tigers are "deeply interested" in Crawford, says Rosenthal.

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NJReds
10-31-2010, 12:42 PM
If the D-Backs grab Konerko, Chicago would make a great trading partner.

An Alonso and Maloney for Carlos Quentin deal would be ideal for both parties (though that may be overpaying).

Carlos Quentin would make Gomes look like a gold glove LF.

Redsfan320
10-31-2010, 04:51 PM
Rockies interested in James Shields (SP- TB)
Cardinals interested in Miguel Tejada (2B-SS-2B- FA)
Bobby Valentine (M- Ret.) leading candidate for Brewers managing job

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Redsfan320
10-31-2010, 07:35 PM
If Dan Wakamatsu (M- um... FA?...out of a job?) doesn't find a managing job in the next few days, he'll likely be Orioles bench coach, reports Dan Connolly of the Baltimore Sun

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Redsfan320
10-31-2010, 07:36 PM
Also, in this thread, THE VAST MAJORITY ARE FROM MLB TRADE RUMORS.COM albeit 2nd hand.

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Redsfan320
10-31-2010, 08:25 PM
Tomorrow, the posting process on Hisashi Iwakuma (SP- Jpn) will begin

It'll be in the transactions thread once it happens

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Redsfan320
11-02-2010, 04:55 PM
The Reds are expected to announce Wednesday whether they will pick up 2011 club options on Bronson Arroyo, Jonny Gomes, Orlando Cabrera and Aaron Harang. (Fay) (http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/11/02/decisions-imminent-on-arroyo-gomes-cabrera-harang/)

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pedro
11-02-2010, 04:58 PM
The Reds are expected to announce Wednesday whether they will pick up 2011 club options on Bronson Arroyo, Jonny Gomes, Orlando Cabrera and Aaron Harang. (Fay) (http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/11/02/decisions-imminent-on-arroyo-gomes-cabrera-harang/)

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Harang huh?

nemesis
11-02-2010, 06:30 PM
The Reds are expected to announce Wednesday whether they will pick up 2011 club options on Bronson Arroyo (YES), Jonny Gomes (NO), Orlando Cabrera (NO) and Aaron Harang (NO). (Fay) (http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/11/02/decisions-imminent-on-arroyo-gomes-cabrera-harang/)

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Although I expect them to offer lesser contracts to Cabrera and Gomes.

Brutus
11-02-2010, 08:23 PM
Harang huh?

He does have a club option, so why wouldn't they include him in the list?

mdccclxix
11-02-2010, 08:29 PM
The Reds are expected to announce Wednesday whether they will pick up 2011 club options on Bronson Arroyo, Jonny Gomes, Orlando Cabrera and Aaron Harang. (Fay) (http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/11/02/decisions-imminent-on-arroyo-gomes-cabrera-harang/)

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This'll be a big day.

Heath
11-02-2010, 08:57 PM
Tigers are "deeply interested" in Crawford, says Rosenthal.

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Mike Illitch would overpay everyone to get Crawford.

That might mean that Hot-N-Ready's will escalate to $6 per pizza.

pedro
11-02-2010, 08:57 PM
He does have a club option, so why wouldn't they include him in the list?

I misread it. Thought it was saying they they were expected to pick up all the options.....

Redsfan320
11-05-2010, 08:23 AM
Marlins discussing 4-yr. extension with Dan Uggla (2B-Fla)

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Chip R
11-05-2010, 10:19 AM
Cardinals interested in Miguel Tejada (2B-SS-2B- FA)


Why not? Just another guy who took the needle for the Redbirds.

MattyHo4Life
11-05-2010, 10:30 AM
Is there any hope of this happening? :evil:

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Only if the Cardinals dont want to see 3Mil fans in the stadium for a long long time. lol

traderumor
11-05-2010, 07:13 PM
Why not? Just another guy who took the needle for the Redbirds.But how is Cris Carpenter going to explain that to his son?

Redsfan320
11-16-2010, 05:31 PM
Braves "very close" to getting Uggla for Infante and (Mike) Dunn (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/11/braves-close-to-nearing-deal-for-dan-uggla.html)

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OnBaseMachine
11-16-2010, 05:32 PM
Francisco Cordero is available according to Jon Heyman.

francisco cordero available. #reds may even chip in a few dollars

http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman

Brutus
11-16-2010, 05:33 PM
Francisco Cordero is available according to Jon Heyman.

francisco cordero available. #reds may even chip in a few dollars

http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman

Geez you're fast.

RedsManRick
11-16-2010, 05:33 PM
Geez you're fast.

You should see him on Twitter. He's a machine.

Brutus
11-16-2010, 05:35 PM
You should see him on Twitter. He's a machine.

Apparently lol

That tweet wasn't a minute old and I came over to post it and he already had the sucker up there. Man I can't compete with that!

OnBaseMachine
11-16-2010, 05:40 PM
Haha, I guess computer class was one of the few classes I stayed awake for during school. :)

redsmetz
11-16-2010, 05:42 PM
Haha, I guess computer class was one of the few classes I stayed awake for during school. :)

You're young enough to have taken computer classes! I took typing (now known as keyboarding) and when I was in college, our German prof had just set up a language lab on the computer.

TheNext44
11-16-2010, 05:42 PM
Francisco Cordero is available according to Jon Heyman.

francisco cordero available. #reds may even chip in a few dollars

http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman

If he can do it, it might be Walt's best move ever.

OnBaseMachine
11-16-2010, 05:44 PM
The Marlins just traded Dan Uggla for Omar Infante and Michael Dunn. I don't see any reason why the Reds can't acquire Hanley Ramirez for Cordero. :)

nemesis
11-16-2010, 05:46 PM
Guess than answers the question how the Reds really feel about Cordero...

JaxRed
11-16-2010, 07:36 PM
Francisco Cordero is available according to Jon Heyman.

francisco cordero available. #reds may even chip in a few dollars

http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman


Please.

OnBaseMachine
11-16-2010, 08:13 PM
Jocketty says the Reds are looking for a leadoff hitter via trade...


"We've been talking to clubs and looking for a potential leadoff hitter, and maybe someone to improve our bench," Jocketty said by phone on Tuesday night. "There's not a great deal to do, but we're talking a lot.



http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101116&content_id=16118054&vkey=news_cin&c_id=cin

blumj
11-17-2010, 12:29 AM
The Red Sox believe they are a better team with shortstop Marco Scutaro than without him. Still, they are open to trading Scutaro for the right part, according to major league sources.



Middle relief is a principle area of need for the Red Sox. The Cardinals, Padres, Reds and Pirates are among the teams that are both looking for a shortstop and potentially deep enough in the bullpen to trade a reliever.

He's probably not the worst defensive SS or leadoff hitter you could get, but he's also probably not the best defensive SS or leadoff hitter you could get. And likely a little more expensive than would be ideal.

Benihana
11-17-2010, 10:17 AM
"One exec believes Logan Morrison and Ricky Nolasco would get it done for Upton."

That means the price is likely Drew Stubbs and Homer Bailey for Justin Upton. Would you do it?

bucksfan2
11-17-2010, 10:26 AM
"One exec believes Logan Morrison and Ricky Nolasco would get it done for Upton."

That means the price is likely Drew Stubbs and Homer Bailey for Justin Upton. Would you do it?

No.

Tom Servo
11-17-2010, 02:21 PM
Heyman says the Tigers are close to signing Dunner.

CTA513
11-17-2010, 02:35 PM
Heyman says the Tigers are close to signing Dunner.

It would be a smart move if he finally gave in to DHing.

bucksfan2
11-17-2010, 02:59 PM
It would be a smart move if he finally gave in to DHing.

Who is a worse defensive 1b, Dunner or Cabrera?

Heath
11-17-2010, 03:56 PM
Heyman says the Tigers are close to signing Dunner.

That short porch in Detroit just got shorter.

Miggy DH's now. Dunner at 1st. Lots of kids in the OF for the Tigers. Mash'em Tigers.

Sea Ray
11-17-2010, 04:06 PM
That short porch in Detroit just got shorter.

Miggy DH's now. Dunner at 1st. Lots of kids in the OF for the Tigers. Mash'em Tigers.

That short porch got demolished along with Tiger Stadium. That's a pitcher's park now

CTA513
11-17-2010, 04:06 PM
Who is a worse defensive 1b, Dunner or Cabrera?

Haven't seen much of either at 1B, but my guess would be Dunn since he spent most of his career in the outfield and is just started to play 1B regularly.

buckeyenut
11-17-2010, 08:37 PM
Dunn mashing with Cabrera on base in front of him batting 3rd? #5 hitter in that lineup is going to get a lot of ribbies.

*BaseClogger*
11-17-2010, 08:45 PM
Who is a worse defensive 1b, Dunner or Cabrera?

Cabrera struggled with the position right after he switched, but he has gotten comfortable over there and is a fairly athletic guy for his size (he did play third base for a while). He is a decent defensive first baseman now, and definitely better than Dunn. Dunn should spend more time DHing than Cabrera, IMO...

RedLegSuperStar
11-17-2010, 09:13 PM
Im giving the D'Backs Homer Bailey, Danny Dorn, Yonder Alonso, and Carlos Fisher for Justin Upton

kaldaniels
11-17-2010, 09:28 PM
Im giving the D'Backs Homer Bailey, Danny Dorn, Yonder Alonso, and Carlos Fisher for Justin Upton

The kneejerk reaction to that scenario is "are you crazy?".

But think...that gives us an OF of Upton/Stubbs/Bruce for at least the next 4 years. (Isn't Bruce controlled thru 2014...that may be my only error there).

Who on that list has produced in quantity at the Major League level? No one.

It's a gamble but you are gonna pay a price for someone like Upton, who has a very favorable contract for 5 more years.

Cedric
11-17-2010, 10:54 PM
The kneejerk reaction to that scenario is "are you crazy?".

But think...that gives us an OF of Upton/Stubbs/Bruce for at least the next 4 years. (Isn't Bruce controlled thru 2014...that may be my only error there).

Who on that list has produced in quantity at the Major League level? No one.

It's a gamble but you are gonna pay a price for someone like Upton, who has a very favorable contract for 5 more years.

Of course anyone with pitching depth would trade Homer Bailey and Yonder Alonso for Justin Upton. The other guys are filler and not going to be of any use to Arizona.

Griffey012
11-17-2010, 11:00 PM
The kneejerk reaction to that scenario is "are you crazy?".

But think...that gives us an OF of Upton/Stubbs/Bruce for at least the next 4 years. (Isn't Bruce controlled thru 2014...that may be my only error there).

Who on that list has produced in quantity at the Major League level? No one.

It's a gamble but you are gonna pay a price for someone like Upton, who has a very favorable contract for 5 more years.

My kneejerk reaction is its gonna take a lot more than that to get Upton. It is going to take much more than 2 MLB ready prospects and some fodder. Toss in Mez and a lower level prospects and the DBacks might start listening.

kaldaniels
11-18-2010, 12:24 AM
My kneejerk reaction is its gonna take a lot more than that to get Upton. It is going to take much more than 2 MLB ready prospects and some fodder. Toss in Mez and a lower level prospects and the DBacks might start listening.

I'm just sayin', but if you are going to lay on a bit of snark...try not to make yourself look like a doofus in the meantime. :cool:

BearcatShane
11-18-2010, 12:27 AM
Bailey, Alonso and Leake would be in a potential trade for Upton in my opinion.

marcshoe
11-18-2010, 12:38 AM
Including Alonso and Mes in a trade for J. Upton would be overpaying big time, imho. Each one of those is a big chip, and if you include both in the same deal you'd better get someone at or close to superstar-level in return. While J.U. is a nice player who's shown flashes, he's still not there, and I'm not even sure he's on the cusp-maybe, maybe not. I wouldn't complain about an Alonso-based deal, include a young pitcher and a prospect, but hold on to Mes.

fwiw, here's what Dave Cameron says about young Justin's future. (http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/justin-uptons-future-value/)

kaldaniels
11-18-2010, 12:39 AM
Bailey, Alonso and Leake would be in a potential trade for Upton in my opinion.

It all depends on the market for the guy. IMO, Bailey and Alonso are 2 nice centerpieces to build upon...not sure I would give up 2 of our starters.

Johnny Footstool
11-18-2010, 12:50 AM
Upton is a rare talent. Very few players post an OPS over .800 as a 21 year old rookie. Bailey, Leake, and Alonso for Upton would be a steal for the Reds.

marcshoe
11-18-2010, 12:52 AM
Are there any actual rumors out there involving the Reds? It seems that with the quiet way Walt works, we tend to insert the Reds into other teams rumors just to have something to talk about.

kaldaniels
11-18-2010, 01:00 AM
Upton is a rare talent. Very few players post an OPS over .800 as a 21 year old rookie. Bailey, Leake, and Alonso for Upton would be a steal for the Reds.

Homer Bailey and Mike Leake combined for a 3.0 WAR in 2010.

Justin Upton had a 3.1 WAR in 2010.

I'm not saying Upton isn't a great player...just that I would not evaporate our pitching surplus for him. My arm could be twisted to include any pitcher on the staff for him excluding Chapman...and maybe Wood. But I wouldn't give up 2 of the starters.

TheNext44
11-18-2010, 02:07 AM
http://mobile.twitter.com/jaysonst/status/5036204827353088

Jayson Stark reporting it will take "huge short/long term package.".
Heyman tweets the asking price is "ridiculous."

The Yankees have bowed out, the Red sox have backed away. I think that say a bunch about Upton's price.

One writer has it as five players, three MLB ready.

There's a difference between what he's worth and what it will take to get him.

mth123
11-18-2010, 02:36 AM
http://mobile.twitter.com/jaysonst/status/5036204827353088

Jayson Stark reporting it will take "huge short/long term package.".
Heyman tweets the asking price is "ridiculous."

The Yankees have bowed out, the Red sox have backed away. I think that say a bunch about Upton's price.

One writer has it as five players, three MLB ready.

There's a difference between what he's worth and what it will take to get him.

Leake, Alonso, Heisey, Neftali Soto and Juan Carlos Sulbaran. Three ready now and a bat and an arm for down the road. I'd do that in a heartbeat and I'd bet that the D-backs would listen.

Ron Madden
11-18-2010, 04:46 AM
Leake, Alonso, Heisey, Neftali Soto and Juan Carlos Sulbaran. Three ready now and a bat and an arm for down the road. I'd do that in a heartbeat and I'd bet that the D-backs would listen.

I'd make that deal right now. It wouldn't hurt a thing for Walt to make that proposal, The worst thing Arizona can say is no but at least he has their ear and can work from there.

TheNext44
11-18-2010, 06:40 AM
Leake, Alonso, Heisey, Neftali Soto and Juan Carlos Sulbaran. Three ready now and a bat and an arm for down the road. I'd do that in a heartbeat and I'd bet that the D-backs would listen.

Makes too much sense to actually happen. ;)

Smart thinking, though.

Griffey012
11-18-2010, 07:36 AM
I'm just sayin', but if you are going to lay on a bit of snark...try not to make yourself look like a doofus in the meantime. :cool:

Wasn't intending to be snarky, just saying I thought it was going to take a lot more than Bailey and Alonso.

bucksfan2
11-18-2010, 08:35 AM
Cabrera struggled with the position right after he switched, but he has gotten comfortable over there and is a fairly athletic guy for his size (he did play third base for a while). He is a decent defensive first baseman now, and definitely better than Dunn. Dunn should spend more time DHing than Cabrera, IMO...

Cabrera seems to be the more athletic guy seeing as he came up playing 1b, 3b, LF, RF. I just know from seeing him play a little he was a butcher with his footwork at 1b, similar to Dunner. However its a problem I would like to have in the AL.

redsfandan
11-18-2010, 10:15 AM
Upton is a rare talent. Very few players post an OPS over .800 as a 21 year old rookie. Bailey, Leake, and Alonso for Upton would be a steal for the Reds.
21? Wasn't he an .800 ops guy (in '08) before he turned 21? I don't think there have been many to do that at the age of 20. Maybe a dozen made up of mostly HOF'ers.

camisadelgolf
11-18-2010, 10:57 AM
Homer Bailey and Mike Leake combined for a 3.0 WAR in 2010.

Justin Upton had a 3.1 WAR in 2010.

I'm not saying Upton isn't a great player...just that I would not evaporate our pitching surplus for him. My arm could be twisted to include any pitcher on the staff for him excluding Chapman...and maybe Wood. But I wouldn't give up 2 of the starters.
If you ask me, Leake and Bailey weren't 3.0 WAR in 2010, but that's an entirely different discussion.

Keeping your numbers in mind, you have a fair point, but one thing to take note of is that you're comparing the production from two roster spots to one. For the Reds in 2010, each roster spot was worth ~1.4 WAR. Therefore, trading Bailey and Leake for Upton would be like trading 3.0 WAR for 4.5 WAR, give or take a little. And as you know, Upton's numbers in 2009 were far more impressive than they were in 2010, so I think it's fair to assume he'll produce a lot more than 3.1 WAR annually for several years to come when you factor in his age.

Leake and Bailey would no-doubt get the conversation started, but I still don't think it's nearly enough for Upton.

camisadelgolf
11-18-2010, 11:04 AM
21? Wasn't he an .800 ops guy (in '08) before he turned 21? I don't think there have been many to do that at the age of 20. Maybe a dozen made up of mostly HOF'ers.
Amongst players with 300+ plate appearances during the season, Justin Upton is one of seven players to do it in the past 50 years. The others are:
Alex Rodriguez
Tony Conigliaro (twice)
Bob Horner
Jason Heyward
Ken Griffey, Jr.
Mike Stanton

mdccclxix
11-18-2010, 11:27 AM
I think the baseball ref comp of Andruw Jones is a pretty apt one.

However, in bargaining, I'd start with the injury situation, then the K's, then the fact the Dbacks don't see the value in keeping him for 5 years at 10 mil per. Then I'd start the conversation.

Frankly, we can build a .850 OPS LFer for 3 million and use the savings on pitching or keeping Bruce and Votto. Defensively, we're still under what Upton provides, though. But, I'm not sure that's worth 7 additional million.

This from MLB trade rumors though:


The Red Sox are on the "backburner" in the Upton talks after a mystery team made a strong push yesterday, according to Ken Rosenthal and Jon Paul Morosi of FOX Sports.

Is that ever NOT Walt Jocketty??? :D

Benihana
11-18-2010, 12:34 PM
Is that ever NOT Walt Jocketty??? :D

Bad News:

MLBTR:

The Blue Jays are showing "strong interest" in Upton, according to Rosenthal (on Twitter). They are the mystery team from FOX Sports' earlier report.

nemesis
11-18-2010, 12:38 PM
At $500,000 this year, Upton is a freaking steal. Even when he starts to get really expensive in a few years, 1) Phillips is off the books 2) Cordero is off the Books and 3) Arroyo will be off the books. Now I understand that Votto, Bruce, Cueto and company are all due healthy raises, but if the Reds keep winning the team might be able to support a $85 to 90 million payroll. Worst case you move him right before he gets uber expensive, Yorman is ready and get back a ton of prospects back for him from the Yankees or Red Sox.

Johnny Footstool
11-18-2010, 12:46 PM
21? Wasn't he an .800 ops guy (in '08) before he turned 21? I don't think there have been many to do that at the age of 20. Maybe a dozen made up of mostly HOF'ers.

Yeah, his birthday is August 25, so he did spend most of 2008 as a 20 year old.

Scrap Irony
11-18-2010, 12:57 PM
A deal of Bailey, Leake, Alonso, Mesoraco, and Heisey is pretty beastly, IMO, and one that should get Uption here.

That would put the Red rotation at Arroyo, Volquez, Cueto, Wood, and Chapman, with Maloney and LeCure as back-end fodder. That's not untenable, though at least two of the youngsters would have to step forward in a pretty big way to make a strong playoff push.

Upton in LF would be divine, though I question the amount given up and the likelihood that Beltran will equal Upton's numbers and positional value (in LF) for 2011 and be a fraction of the cost in prospects. (Or, with Cordero gonig the other way, no prospects involved.)

Roy Tucker
11-18-2010, 01:22 PM
Wondering why the D-backs are willing to trade Upton, I came across this...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tim_marchman/11/18/justin.upton/

mdccclxix
11-18-2010, 01:51 PM
Bad News:

MLBTR:

Damn, they've discovered his tactics!!!

Griffey012
11-18-2010, 02:06 PM
Wondering why the D-backs are willing to trade Upton, I came across this...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tim_marchman/11/18/justin.upton/

Curious as to how the writer determines "hitting the same." He claimed Griffey "basically" hit the same from ages 23-27 as he did at age 21.

Age 21: OPS+ 155
Age 23-27: Not including his injured 95 he averaged an OPS+ of 165.

He also went from a 20+ HR hitter to a 40+ HR Hitter.

Basically he went from great to MVP caliber. Where as Pujols went from MVP Caliber to All Time great single season caliber. To me they both seem like good jumps.

I really wish I understood more of the OPS+ calculation he is using. Numbers wise Upton's 21 year old season of 26HR's, 55 BB's and a .300/.366/.532 slash line is very similar to Griffey in 1992 with 27 HR's, 44BB's and a .308/.361/.535 slash line. In fact it's nearly identical. Yet Upton gets an OPS+ of 129 while Griffey gets an OPS+ of 149. Can someone with a little more knowledge explain why this might be?

Sea Ray
11-18-2010, 02:10 PM
At $500,000 this year, Upton is a freaking steal. Even when he starts to get really expensive in a few years, 1) Phillips is off the books 2) Cordero is off the Books and 3) Arroyo will be off the books. Now I understand that Votto, Bruce, Cueto and company are all due healthy raises, but if the Reds keep winning the team might be able to support a $85 to 90 million payroll. Worst case you move him right before he gets uber expensive, Yorman is ready and get back a ton of prospects back for him from the Yankees or Red Sox.

Cots has his 2011 salary at over $4mill

http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/arizona-diamondbacks_10.html

Admittedly that's still a good deal but those salaries in 2014-15 are scary

TheNext44
11-18-2010, 02:14 PM
A deal of Bailey, Leake, Alonso, Mesoraco, and Heisey is pretty beastly, IMO, and one that should get Uption here.

That would put the Red rotation at Arroyo, Volquez, Cueto, Wood, and Chapman, with Maloney and LeCure as back-end fodder. That's not untenable, though at least two of the youngsters would have to step forward in a pretty big way to make a strong playoff push.

Upton in LF would be divine, though I question the amount given up and the likelihood that Beltran will equal Upton's numbers and positional value (in LF) for 2011 and be a fraction of the cost in prospects. (Or, with Cordero gonig the other way, no prospects involved.)

No way Upton provides anywhere near the production or value that that package would provide the Reds over the next few years. Way too much.

klw
11-18-2010, 02:20 PM
Curious as to how the writer determines "hitting the same." He claimed Griffey "basically" hit the same from ages 23-27 as he did at age 21.

Age 21: OPS+ 155
Age 23-27: Not including his injured 95 he averaged an OPS+ of 165.

He also went from a 20+ HR hitter to a 40+ HR Hitter.

Basically he went from great to MVP caliber. Where as Pujols went from MVP Caliber to All Time great single season caliber. To me they both seem like good jumps.

I really wish I understood more of the OPS+ calculation he is using. Numbers wise Upton's 21 year old season of 26HR's, 55 BB's and a .300/.366/.532 slash line is very similar to Griffey in 1992 with 27 HR's, 44BB's and a .308/.361/.535 slash line. In fact it's nearly identical. Yet Upton gets an OPS+ of 129 while Griffey gets an OPS+ of 149. Can someone with a little more knowledge explain why this might be?

I believe OPS+ has a park adjustment component and a seasonal adjustment so both of those could have a role.

Chip R
11-18-2010, 03:10 PM
Wondering why the D-backs are willing to trade Upton, I came across this...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tim_marchman/11/18/justin.upton/ (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/tim_marchman/11/18/justin.upton/)


Interesting.

*BaseClogger*
11-18-2010, 03:23 PM
I believe OPS+ has a park adjustment component and a seasonal adjustment so both of those could have a role.

Yeah, Arizona is in an offensive paradise and I believe Seattle has always played in a pitcher's park. Jojo could help us out with the details...

Griffey012
11-18-2010, 03:57 PM
Yeah, Arizona is in an offensive paradise and I believe Seattle has always played in a pitcher's park. Jojo could help us out with the details...

IIRC the Kingdome had a pretty ridiculously short right field fence. Overall it may not have been too offensive of a park, but it definitely was to left handers.

Rojo
11-18-2010, 04:28 PM
Interesting.

Very interesting. Anyone else read that article and think of Austin Kearns?

Scrap Irony
11-18-2010, 05:06 PM
I'd offer some pretty serious coin for the Upton of now, regardless of if he improves. He'd be a Carl Crawford clone (as he is right now) in the National League.

marcshoe
11-18-2010, 05:14 PM
Okay, you're starting to confuse me now. I'm prety sure he's already in the NL. The way my brain's working, though, I'm likely misunderstanding. I'm guessing you're talking about the NL Central as opposed to the caverns of the NL West.

No idea what will happen, but if the Mets get him for this package (http://www.metsblog.com/2010/11/18/pelfrey-ike-etc-if-youre-thinking-justin-upton/), I'd start talking to them about Alonso for Reyes.

Not much chance of that happening, though. I'd still go for Alonso and, say, Leake, but not much more for Upton.

IslandRed
11-18-2010, 07:33 PM
The Diamondbacks are probably just chumming the waters a bit. I doubt the package the D-backs would actually take for Upton now that he's "available" is materially different from what it would have taken when he was supposedly untouchable.

mdccclxix
11-19-2010, 01:38 AM
Yesterday, we learned that teams are showing interest in shortstop Marco Scutaro and the club is willing to move him for the right return. The market for Scutaro is rapidly heating up as McAdam writes that six teams are in on the 35-year-old. Potential landing spots include St. Louis, Cincinnati, San Diego, and San Francisco if the Giants are unable to re-sign Juan Uribe. The Red Sox are seeking bullpen help in return for Scutaro, according to McAdam.

I'd take one of Cairo and Scutaro. 35 and 38 doubles the last few years is a heap. Rolen may recommend Scutaro, who knows.

corkedbat
11-19-2010, 01:44 AM
The Red Sox are seeking bullpen help in return for Scutaro, according to McAdam.

They can have Cordero straight up for Scutaro if they take his whole salary. :D

mth123
11-19-2010, 02:30 AM
They can have Cordero straight up for Scutaro if they take his whole salary. :D

Cordero, Francisco and Valaika for Scutaro and Cameron. Salary is about even, the Sox open a spot for Werth in LF alongside Ellsbury and Drew and they would still have Kalish, Reddick and Nava. I'd imagine The Red Sox are anxious to move Cameron's salary. Cameron would be the LF with Scutaro at SS and lead-off. Its the kind of deal that would help both teams. The Reds might need to add another prospect.

Ghosts of 1990
11-19-2010, 08:41 AM
I'd offer some pretty serious coin for the Upton of now, regardless of if he improves. He'd be a Carl Crawford clone (as he is right now) in the National League.

He will never steal as many bases, I don't think. I think Upton projects as a guy who will have some 40 HR seasons though. I cannot figure out why the DBacks want to trade him.

TRF
11-19-2010, 09:58 AM
He will never steal as many bases, I don't think. I think Upton projects as a guy who will have some 40 HR seasons though. I cannot figure out why the DBacks want to trade him.

New GM, new manager. They have some very good young talent, but a bunch of holes to fill. If you can add 2 ML ready talents PLUS 2-3 high upside prospects, then in their case they may think that is what they have to do. I see why they want to do it, I'm not sure they actually will though.

RedsManRick
11-19-2010, 11:30 AM
He will never steal as many bases, I don't think. I think Upton projects as a guy who will have some 40 HR seasons though. I cannot figure out why the DBacks want to trade him.

I think people are over-complicating this. The Diamondbacks, as currently constructed, do not have enough talent to win. The GMs job is to increase the talent level in the org. If he can get more talent for less money by trading away Upton, it probably makes sense to do so.

I don't think he gets traded unless it's a virtual no-brainer.

redsfandan
11-20-2010, 10:27 AM
• Among the agents Cubs GM Jim Hendry met at the meetings were those who represent Vazquez, Aaron Harang and Vicente Padilla.

http://www.suntimes.com/sports/baseball/whitesox/2904034,CST-SPT-soxnt18.article

Griffey012
11-20-2010, 03:56 PM
He will never steal as many bases, I don't think. I think Upton projects as a guy who will have some 40 HR seasons though. I cannot figure out why the DBacks want to trade him.

He could easily be a young Ken Griffey Jr. And that would be amazing to have in a Reds Uni.

Griffey012
11-20-2010, 03:58 PM
I think people are over-complicating this. The Diamondbacks, as currently constructed, do not have enough talent to win. The GMs job is to increase the talent level in the org. If he can get more talent for less money by trading away Upton, it probably makes sense to do so.

I don't think he gets traded unless it's a virtual no-brainer.

I agree, and I feel like we could give Arizona a virtual no brainer and not set our franchise back at all.

Mario-Rijo
11-20-2010, 05:48 PM
I agree, and I feel like we could give Arizona a virtual no brainer and not set our franchise back at all.

I'll just say this I'd rather pursue someone else, I think pursuing his brother would make more sense. But I agree with your sentiment and if I were gonna make an offer for him I would not offer 2 young starting arms.

Alonso
Bailey or Volquez
Francisco, Valaika or Heisey (though I'd try to hold on to Heisey)
Soto, Dorn or Sappelt
Sulbaran, Maloney or Thompson

No Leake, no Wood, no Mes, Hamilton or Yorman.

I personally think Bailey or Volquez with Alonso with solid but not necessarily spectacular additional players is the best they can expect to get. I would guess it's all in how Alonso and Bailey are viewed by them.

steig
11-20-2010, 09:07 PM
I think a package of Alonso, Bailey, and another decent prospect should get the deal. I would not like to see Volquez shipped out for Upton. I believe he has the best stuff on the staff and will not get completely back from his injury until June or July 2011. Hopefully then he can be the top starter on the team. I think we need to remember that Upton had a turn back this year but still has a lot of potential.

Spitball
11-20-2010, 10:03 PM
Alonso
Bailey or Volquez
Francisco, Valaika or Heisey (though I'd try to hold on to Heisey)
Soto, Dorn or Sappelt
Sulbaran, Maloney or Thompson

No Leake, no Wood, no Mes, Hamilton or Yorman.

I believe Upton has to be available for only a "knock their socks off" type deal. Someone is going to have to overpay big time. They don't have to trade this guy. They are wanting a desperate team like Boston to surrender a Ellsbury-Bard-Iglesias type deal.

I doubt they even entertain thoughts of a fair deal for the guy. They will have to be totally blown away...and that probably will mean starting with Stubbs and Leake or Wood then adding two or three top prospects.

Johnny Footstool
11-20-2010, 10:50 PM
I believe Upton has to be available for only a "knock their socks off" type deal. Someone is going to have to overpay big time. They don't have to trade this guy. They are wanting a desperate team like Boston to surrender a Ellsbury-Bard-Iglesias type deal.

I doubt they even entertain thoughts of a fair deal for the guy. They will have to be totally blown away...and that probably will mean starting with Stubbs and Leake or Wood then adding two or three top prospects.

Exactly. They don't *have* to trade Upton. They're just choosing to open up negotiations while he is at his peak value. It's like finding a mint-condition Honus Wagner card on eBay; yes, you can offer $250, but the seller has a reserve that has to be met, or else he's not selling.

lollipopcurve
11-21-2010, 09:08 AM
Exactly. They don't *have* to trade Upton. They're just choosing to open up negotiations while he is at his peak value. It's like finding a mint-condition Honus Wagner card on eBay; yes, you can offer $250, but the seller has a reserve that has to be met, or else he's not selling.

Yet, make no mistake -- Justin Upton is not a piece of cardboard. He will be affected by the talk. Whether it spurs him to play better, or saps his competitive approach, his energy will be directed in some way towards an exit from Arizona. Once trade talk like this comes out, and as public as this talk has been, there is no turning back. At this point, there is almost no chance he plays out his contract for the Diamondbacks.

kaldaniels
11-21-2010, 10:47 AM
Try not to make this too complicated.

The DBacks hold all the cards on this one.

Of course if they don't like what is offered (no one says it has to be fair, they have the power) they don't make the move.

Upton is a professional ballplayer...if Zona doesn't trade him, he stays.

Homer Bailey didn't pack up and go home crying when the Reds were discussing trading him 2 offseasons ago. Its part of being a pro athlete.

The Reds should inquire on him for sure.

lollipopcurve
11-21-2010, 11:28 AM
Homer Bailey didn't pack up and go home crying when the Reds were discussing trading him 2 offseasons ago. Its part of being a pro athlete.

It will affect Upton, one way or the other. He was as high-profile as it gets, with a long-term deal in hand and "face of the franchise" status. New GM comes to town and immediately puts him on the block. There's very little chance Upton is now going to behave like a team would want its core player to act -- doing stuff for the team, living in and being active in the community, etc., etc. He may play great, but my guess is that it will be clear he's doing so for himself, not the AZ Diamondbacks. A dynamic culminating in his departure (whether it's sooner or later) has been set in motion.

As I said, there is now almost no chance he plays out his contract in Arizona.

kaldaniels
11-21-2010, 11:40 AM
It will affect Upton, one way or the other. He was as high-profile as it gets, with a long-term deal in hand and "face of the franchise" status. New GM comes to town and immediately puts him on the block. There's very little chance Upton is now going to behave like a team would want its core player to act -- doing stuff for the team, living in and being active in the community, etc., etc. He may play great, but my guess is that it will be clear he's doing so for himself, not the AZ Diamondbacks. A dynamic culminating in his departure (whether it's sooner or later) has been set in motion.

As I said, there is now almost no chance he plays out his contract in Arizona.

And while he certainly could get moved (seems likely at this point), it is not in his hands.

Here is the quote from Towers.

"I told most of the ballclubs that this is one that's probably going to be a 'win' deal for us," Towers told Nick Piecoro. "Most of the deals, it's win-win for both sides. The asking price is definitely going to be steep. If someone wants to meet that, we'll have to strongly consider it. If not, we'll keep Justin and move on."

Nothing offensive about that. Upton will get over it if not moved.

Mario-Rijo
11-21-2010, 04:31 PM
I believe Upton has to be available for only a "knock their socks off" type deal. Someone is going to have to overpay big time. They don't have to trade this guy. They are wanting a desperate team like Boston to surrender a Ellsbury-Bard-Iglesias type deal.

I doubt they even entertain thoughts of a fair deal for the guy. They will have to be totally blown away...and that probably will mean starting with Stubbs and Leake or Wood then adding two or three top prospects.

How do we know that what I proposed wouldn't be a knock your socks off type of deal? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Besides I would try to work the deal in this direction (or less) not start with it, gotta feel them out.

I(heart)Freel
11-21-2010, 05:56 PM
I honestly can't off the top of my head think of an example in the past of a high profile player dangled so aggressively who wasn't dealt by spring training.

I agree with Lolli. The Dbacks know this much trade talk/speculation would have an adverse effect on Upton's attitude (and on-field performance) if he weren't dealt.

klw
11-21-2010, 08:24 PM
Wily Mo update
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/11/five-teams-interested-in-wily-mo-pena.html

corkedbat
11-21-2010, 11:13 PM
Wily Mo update
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/11/five-teams-interested-in-wily-mo-pena.html

If it's a minor league deal, I'm all for bringing the Weapon of Mass Production to Spring Training. If nothing else, It would be good to have a big OF bat in Louisville in case of injury.

Scrap Irony
11-22-2010, 12:47 PM
Wily Mo = 2010 Wlad Balentien

He'd be a minor league depth guy with great power who might, in the best of all possible worlds, be able to harness his significant talents into a monster year that will help the big league club. He's likely 4-A fodder who may spot start and pinch hit at the major league level only if he mashes in AAA.

Worth a gamble, IMO, but only because the AAA club looks weak sister-ish in the OF. (Only Frazier looks to have any pop in the bat, and he'd be best served to play a Mark DeRosa-ish role, with many different positions around the diamond rather than focusing strictly on LF.)

lollipopcurve
11-22-2010, 01:26 PM
I'll be shocked if Wily Mo signs with an NL team.

top6
11-22-2010, 01:59 PM
But it would fulfill the lifelong dream of many Redzoners of seeing Willy Mo play in the Reds' minor league system. It's probably worth doing just for that.

Maybe they could then sign Jeff Shaw to be the closer down the stretch.

klw
11-23-2010, 10:04 AM
Cooling in the Upton rumors- Reds mentioned by Rosenthal.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Kansas-City-Royals-Zack-Greinke-no-rush-on-deal-112210


The Blue Jays have enough young pitching to satisfy the D-Backs, but it's unclear whether they would want to make such a deal for Upton. Teams such as the Reds and Nationals, while possibly interested in Upton, do not appear to match up for one reason or another, sources say.







Also a Rhodes update later in the piece.

marcshoe
11-23-2010, 12:15 PM
Good to know that the Reds got into the conversation. That's an indicator they're aggressively looking. I'll be mildly surprised if a major offensive piece isn't added relatively soon.

Benihana
11-23-2010, 01:26 PM
Cooling in the Upton rumors- Reds mentioned by Rosenthal.
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/Kansas-City-Royals-Zack-Greinke-no-rush-on-deal-112210


Also a Rhodes update later in the piece.

Why wouldn't the Reds be a fit? The only thing I can think of is money. Clearly we have the pitching and the ML-ready prospects.

Hopefully, the Reds figure out whether or not Joey is willing to sign an extension in the next three weeks. If he is, great. If he's not, trade for Upton.
Trade Leake, Alonso, Heisey, + 1-2 of Fraizer/Francisco/Joseph/Boxberger. All of them (except Box) are ML-ready. Sign Webb to a minor league deal as rotational depth.

LF Upton
2B Phillips
1B Votto
3B Rolen
RF Bruce
CF Stubbs
C Hernanigan
SS Janish/Cozart

SP Arroyo
SP Cueto
SP Volquez
SP Wood
SP Bailey/Chapman/Webb

is a World Series-caliber team. And I also wish the Reds would offer Rhodes arbitration. I only want him on a one year deal, or get a draft pick. Anything else is unsatisfactory.

Griffey012
11-23-2010, 02:16 PM
Why wouldn't the Reds be a fit? The only thing I can think of is money. Clearly we have the pitching and the ML-ready prospects.

Hopefully, the Reds figure out whether or not Joey is willing to sign an extension in the next three weeks. If he is, great. If he's not, trade for Upton.
Trade Leake, Alonso, Heisey, + 1-2 of Fraizer/Francisco/Joseph/Boxberger. All of them (except Box) are ML-ready. Sign Webb to a minor league deal as rotational depth.

LF Upton
2B Phillips
1B Votto
3B Rolen
RF Bruce
CF Stubbs
C Hernanigan
SS Janish/Cozart

SP Arroyo
SP Cueto
SP Volquez
SP Wood
SP Bailey/Chapman/Webb

is a World Series-caliber team. And I also wish the Reds would offer Rhodes arbitration. I only want him on a one year deal, or get a draft pick. Anything else is unsatisfactory.

It could also be that the DBacks are just asking for too ridiculous of a package. I am guessing the DBacks are hard after Chapman and the Reds are not going to give him up.

TRF
11-23-2010, 02:19 PM
Nats offer Dunn Arbitration

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5842783

great move on their part. If he refuses, they get yet another 1st round comp pick. If he accepts, he's a bridge to the Harper era.

Benihana
11-23-2010, 02:24 PM
It could also be that the DBacks are just asking for too ridiculous of a package. I am guessing the DBacks are hard after Chapman and the Reds are not going to give him up.

Brings up an interesting question-

Would you trade Chapman for Upton straight up?

Cue EV-Hamilton part deux...

marcshoe
11-23-2010, 04:36 PM
It could also be that the DBacks are just asking for too ridiculous of a package. I am guessing the DBacks are hard after Chapman and the Reds are not going to give him up.

Whether it was Chapman or not, it's safe to assume that Arizona was asking a ridiculous price, given what they've said. That's what I took the 'good fit' comment to mean as well.

Mario-Rijo
11-23-2010, 10:10 PM
Good to know that the Reds got into the conversation. That's an indicator they're aggressively looking. I'll be mildly surprised if a major offensive piece isn't added relatively soon.

That's the optimistic take. They could be aggressively looking or just aggressively calling to appear as though they are looking.

nemesis
11-23-2010, 11:07 PM
That's the optimistic take. They could be aggressively looking or just aggressively calling to appear as though they are looking.

Jocketty has proven to be legit. He doesn't run a dog and pony show. He genuinely seems to try and do whats best for this team.

One thing I might say he might be gun shy about, is the mistake he made with dealing Haren. That was a horrible trade. He knows it. I think he might be inclined to be careful to which and how many pitching prospects he moves for any one piece.

Mario-Rijo
11-23-2010, 11:14 PM
Jocketty has proven to be legit. He doesn't run a dog and pony show. He genuinely seems to try and do whats best for this team.

One thing I might say he might be gun shy about, is the mistake he made with dealing Haren. That was a horrible trade. He knows it. I think he might be inclined to be careful to which and how many pitching prospects he moves for any one piece.

If you believe that fine, I don't. What happened to that RH big bat he was looking for? He knew the odds of getting that when HE brought it up so he should have just not said anything. But he knows the value of having the fanbase believe he is trying even if he really isn't. If he had got lucky and ran into one then he would have said there I delivered, if he doesn't then "hey we tried but there was nothing out there". I just am suspicious of any GM who actually says what he is trying to do especially when he normally doesn't follow through. The only time he doesn't say anything is when he is actually up to something.

corkedbat
11-24-2010, 03:06 AM
If you believe that fine, I don't. What happened to that RH big bat he was looking for? He knew the odds of getting that when HE brought it up so he should have just not said anything. But he knows the value of having the fanbase believe he is trying even if he really isn't. If he had got lucky and ran into one then he would have said there I delivered, if he doesn't then "hey we tried but there was nothing out there". I just am suspicious of any GM who actually says what he is trying to do especially when he normally doesn't follow through. The only time he doesn't say anything is when he is actually up to something.

I'd settle for a big LH bat in LF if a RH'd can't be found. Someone like Sizemore for example, would play against RH pitching (the majority ot the pitching they face) and give them improved Defense over Jonny, freeing Gomes for what he's best at - being a solid RH bat off the bench, mashing in starts against select lefties and being a solid clubhouse presence. Sizemore would also give you a LH CF option to spell Stubbs occasionally.

Ghosts of 1990
11-24-2010, 12:01 PM
I am traveling today to New Jersey for the Festivus, which gave me a few hours to listen to espn radio. On the Herd by Colin Cowherd he mentioned Derek Jeter going to the Reds sort of in jest, then soon after had Buster Olney on as a guest. Olney also mentioned Jeter going to Cincinnati FWIW, and Orlando Cabrera as a possible replacement for Jeter in the Bronx.

lollipopcurve
11-24-2010, 12:25 PM
On the Herd by Colin Cowherd he mentioned Derek Jeter going to the Reds sort of in jest, then soon after had Buster Olney on as a guest. Olney also mentioned Jeter going to Cincinnati FWIW, and Orlando Cabrera as a possible replacement for Jeter in the Bronx.

For real? Was Olney serious, or offering pure speculation?

medford
11-24-2010, 12:38 PM
Did the Yanks officially offer the rumored 3 year, $45 mil deal? If so, there's not a chance in the world Jeter is playing for the Reds. Actually, I don't think there's a chance in hell he plays anywhere but NY the rest of his career, I think its all posturing thru the media to get the best deal for both sides.

Eric_the_Red
11-24-2010, 12:47 PM
I'll take OCab at his expected price over Jeter and his contract.

nemesis
11-24-2010, 01:01 PM
I'll take OCab at his expected price over Jeter and his contract.

Jeter's name would but alot alot of butts in the seats. I mean like an extra 1500 a night easy. Solves the leadoff problem. Great team leader and would make the Reds easily the NL Central favorite among media types. That being said no freaking way would I give him 15 Mil.

kaldaniels
11-24-2010, 01:07 PM
On the subject of Jeter...I'm not totally convinced he is washed up.

His WAR this year was his lowest in 15 years...yes. But in 2009 it was 7.1, the 2nd best of his career. I'd put him down for a solid 4 WAR next year.

Worth 15 million...no, but if the Yanks and him have a messy breakup, I would LOVE to catch him on the rebound for 70 cents on the dollar.

Jpup
11-24-2010, 01:10 PM
Jeter would be worth 15 million in publicity the day he signed with the Reds. No way it's happening, but I'm all for it.

RED VAN HOT
11-24-2010, 01:11 PM
I'll take OCab at his expected price over Jeter and his contract.

Or Janish at his expected price. 2010 stats were pretty close. One is entering his peak years and the other is getting old for a middle infielder.

I think the Yankees' offer was fair. I suspect Jeter is looking for 4-6 years and retire as a Yankee. I can't see any team giving him that many years or that much money. On the one hand, I don't think Jeter will play anywhere else and the Yankees know that. On the other hand, the club must deal with the spoiled NY fans that expect the Yankees to pony up even if it means eating the back end of the contract. I have to admit that it's fun to watch.

reds44
11-24-2010, 01:18 PM
I would literally die if the Reds signed Jeter. That would be beyond amazing.

With that being said, it won't happen.

lollipopcurve
11-24-2010, 01:21 PM
Yeah, this sounds completely ludicrous. I get the sense this whole Jeter soap opera is half staged to give MLB a "dramatic storyline" it can trot out on slow news days.

SirFelixCat
11-24-2010, 01:22 PM
Not that it happens, but, man, Jeter w/ the Reds would definitely hurt the defense...a lot. It'd be comparable to O-Cab, but nowhere in the same universe as Janish.

wally post
11-24-2010, 01:37 PM
We took Seaver away from the Mets. I'd love to have Jeter. Couldn't he move to third as well eventually? He's worth whatever it takes to get him.

Jpup
11-24-2010, 01:39 PM
Sign Jeter, trade Brandon. simple. ;)

Brutus
11-24-2010, 01:40 PM
Not that it happens, but, man, Jeter w/ the Reds would definitely hurt the defense...a lot. It'd be comparable to O-Cab, but nowhere in the same universe as Janish.

Hurt the defense? He's a Gold glover.

</TIC>

reds44
11-24-2010, 01:43 PM
I can't wait to see somebody make the argument that Paul Janish is just as good as Derek Jeter.

You know it's coming...

MartyFan
11-24-2010, 01:46 PM
WOW...if this happened consider what HE alone would do for ticket sales...Consider what he brings to a clubhouse...consider what he brings in experience to a young team that overachieved last year.:beerme:

Will it happen? I SERIOUSLY doubt it...but it is good to see the Reds in these sort of conversations and speculations and not simply :rolleyes:.

blumj
11-24-2010, 01:59 PM
I would literally die if the Reds signed Jeter. That would be beyond amazing.

With that being said, it won't happen.

Please assure me that you used the word literally incorrectly.

reds44
11-24-2010, 02:00 PM
Please assure me that you used the word literally incorrectly.
No I hate when people say literally when they don't mean literally.

I mean literally.

My heart could not handle it (pause).

Ron Madden
11-24-2010, 02:07 PM
IF Jeter turned down a 3 yr. $45MM offer from the Yank's he aint commin' here.

Roy Tucker
11-24-2010, 02:17 PM
Poz on Jeter...

http://joeposnanski.si.com/2010/11/23/jeter-and-comfortable-movies/

I wonder if it really is as much of a slam dunk as he says?

LoganBuck
11-24-2010, 02:18 PM
Cowherd has been saying all week in sarcasm "Where is Jeter going to get 3 years and $45 Million, Cincinnati?"

Olney said that if he was out on the market he would find out his true value. He did say that if Jeter left OCab would be a stop gap option in NY.

I did not get the impression in any sort of way that Jeter was even remotely linked to the Reds.

kaldaniels
11-24-2010, 02:57 PM
No I hate when people say literally when they don't mean literally.

I mean literally.

My heart could not handle it (pause).

When FCB was here (I believe it was him) he educated us on how is now ok English-wise to use the word literally when you aren't being literal.

And he was right.

marcshoe
11-24-2010, 03:18 PM
When FCB was here (I believe it was him) he educated us on how is now ok English-wise to use the word literally when you aren't being literal.

And he was right.

Like FCB, I teach English, and I say it ain't okay. ;) I don't mind loosening the language as long as you don't weaken it. Fortunately, there's no Big Official Rulebook in Washington, so we can both have our say.

As for Jeter, he's old and has no range. Don't spend 15 million plus on him, even on a one-year contract. I'll take the younger NY shortstop, please.

kaldaniels
11-24-2010, 03:32 PM
Like FCB, I teach English, and I say it ain't okay. ;) I don't mind loosening the language as long as you don't weaken it. Fortunately, there's no Big Official Rulebook in Washington, so we can both have our say.

As for Jeter, he's old and has no range. Don't spend 15 million plus on him, even on a one-year contract. I'll take the younger NY shortstop, please.

It's the offseason so allow me to derail for a sec...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally

I'm not an English teacher...but what appears is that some people do take offense to its "wrong" use, but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is incorrect usage. Would you dock a student for using it in the way you don't like?

I'm sure there are 2 sides to this...but too often someone misinformed is quick to say "you misused the word 'literally' " when actually it was being used in an alright fashion.

http://www.slate.com/id/2129105/

Nice point from the author of the above...just don't use it in a "silly-sounding way".

Eric_the_Red
11-24-2010, 03:33 PM
For thsoe saying that Jeter would make some sort of dramatic increase in attendance, I cite the example of Griffey Jr, Ken.

Wins sell tickets, not names on the back of the jerseys, even if they are HOFers.

I(heart)Freel
11-24-2010, 03:43 PM
For thsoe saying that Jeter would make some sort of dramatic increase in attendance, I cite the example of Griffey Jr, Ken.

Wins sell tickets, not names on the back of the jerseys, even if they are HOFers.

Except that in 2000, it DID sell tickets. Lots of them, especially season tickets the week after he signed.

The other years, I'll give you. But honeymoons with superstars can dramatically bump attendance.

Brutus
11-24-2010, 05:33 PM
For thsoe saying that Jeter would make some sort of dramatic increase in attendance, I cite the example of Griffey Jr, Ken.

Wins sell tickets, not names on the back of the jerseys, even if they are HOFers.

The following full season after the Cardinals & Reds acquired Mark McGwire and Ken Griffy Jr. respectively, each team saw a bump in attendance nearly 600,000 people. When the Giants acquired Barry Bonds, they added a million more in attendance.

I beg to differ. Names do sell tickets also. While winning is the most important, the perception of adding a big name increases fan interest because it is expected to lead to a better team.

Ghosts of 1990
11-24-2010, 05:34 PM
For real? Was Olney serious, or offering pure speculation?

He mentioned Cincinnati and San Francisco on ESPN NY radio--on two different shows but did not allude to why he used them as examples really. I interpreted it as, if Derek Jeter left the Yankees that these would be two teams that need a shortstop, he didn't say whether or not these were interested teams. I think what I'm assuming here is close to correct and interesting.

marcshoe
11-24-2010, 06:05 PM
It's the offseason so allow me to derail for a sec...

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/literally

I'm not an English teacher...but what appears is that some people do take offense to its "wrong" use, but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is incorrect usage. Would you dock a student for using it in the way you don't like?

I'm sure there are 2 sides to this...but too often someone misinformed is quick to say "you misused the word 'literally' " when actually it was being used in an alright fashion.

http://www.slate.com/id/2129105/

Nice point from the author of the above...just don't use it in a "silly-sounding way".

I would dock a student for using it to mean its opposite--figuratively. I have heard the hyperbole argument and think it's bunk for one simple reason: those who use the word to mean figuratively, if asked, would virtually never be able to tell you the more accepted definition of the word. This then becomes an after-the-fact justification rather than a legitimate second definition.

fwiw, similar arguments are made supporting the misuse of the word ironic.

As I pointed out initially (and have told the 101 class I'm currently teaching) there is no official list of rules. American English is formed by the people rather than handed down to them. In most cases, I'm fairly supportive of changes to the language (see 'hopefully'), however, I don't like seeing the language weakened, which I feel this bit of usage does.

But I've gone way, way off topic.

blumj
11-24-2010, 06:24 PM
I didn't mean to start all that, I just don't want anyone literally dying over a roster move. If he wants to figuratively die, that would be fine.

Benihana
11-24-2010, 08:20 PM
According to MLBTR, Jose Reyes is available for a package of 3-4 players. He makes $11MM this year in the last year of his contract. Make your best offer.

Cordero, Leake, and one of Janish/Cozart

Unrealistically speaking, Id love to include Beltran as well.

FWIW the Mets will have no interest in Alonso with Ike Davis entrenched at 1B

kaldaniels
11-24-2010, 08:44 PM
According to MLBTR, Jose Reyes is available for a package of 3-4 players. He makes $11MM this year in the last year of his contract. Make your best offer.

Cordero, Leake, and one of Janish/Cozart

Unrealistically speaking, Id love to include Beltran as well.

FWIW the Mets will have no interest in Alonso with Ike Davis entrenched at 1B

http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2010&month=0

This chart just makes me wonder...how important is a dominant SS? For all the hate Jeter is getting on his 2010 season...he still had the ninth best WAR in the league. Reyes was just better than Jeter...2.8 to 2.5. Perhaps Janish at SS wouldn't be as bad as I previously thought...unless he proved totally imcompetent with the bat over a full season.

Still, I am shocked over the lack of production from the SS position in the major leagues.

Ron Madden
11-24-2010, 08:54 PM
http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=ss&stats=bat&lg=all&qual=y&type=8&season=2010&month=0

This chart just makes me wonder...how important is a dominant SS? For all the hate Jeter is getting on his 2010 season...he still had the ninth best WAR in the league. Reyes was just better than Jeter...2.8 to 2.5. Perhaps Janish at SS wouldn't be as bad as I previously thought...unless he proved totally imcompetent with the bat over a full season.

Still, I am shocked over the lack of production from the SS position in the major leagues.

Except for the steroid era that's the way it has always been.

Check out the offensive production from the SS position during the 1960's and before.

klw
11-24-2010, 09:30 PM
Except for the steroid era that's the way it has always been.

Check out the offensive production from the SS position during the 1960's and before.

or just look here
http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/belanma01.shtml

or just look at this stance (his #'s actually aren't awful)
http://www.ultimatemets.com/jpeg/FelixMillan1976.jpg
Wait the card says 2nd, wasn't he a ss?

Eric_the_Red
11-24-2010, 09:54 PM
Except that in 2000, it DID sell tickets. Lots of them, especially season tickets the week after he signed.

The other years, I'll give you. But honeymoons with superstars can dramatically bump attendance.


The following full season after the Cardinals & Reds acquired Mark McGwire and Ken Griffy Jr. respectively, each team saw a bump in attendance nearly 600,000 people. When the Giants acquired Barry Bonds, they added a million more in attendance.

I beg to differ. Names do sell tickets also. While winning is the most important, the perception of adding a big name increases fan interest because it is expected to lead to a better team.

Okay, so a 1 year bump. And I don't think Jeter would bring the type of fans that Junior did. At the time, Junior was the man. Bringing in Jeter now would be like when the White Sox got Junior.

TheNext44
11-24-2010, 11:02 PM
I would dock a student for using it to mean its opposite--figuratively. I have heard the hyperbole argument and think it's bunk for one simple reason: those who use the word to mean figuratively, if asked, would virtually never be able to tell you the more accepted definition of the word. This then becomes an after-the-fact justification rather than a legitimate second definition.

fwiw, similar arguments are made supporting the misuse of the word ironic.

As I pointed out initially (and have told the 101 class I'm currently teaching) there is no official list of rules. American English is formed by the people rather than handed down to them. In most cases, I'm fairly supportive of changes to the language (see 'hopefully'), however, I don't like seeing the language weakened, which I feel this bit of usage does.

But I've gone way, way off topic.

It's literaly ironic that I agree with you. ;)

TheNext44
11-24-2010, 11:05 PM
Bringing in Jeter might make the Chad Motalla draft pick sting just a little less, but I doubt it would bring in too many fans.

Griffey012
11-24-2010, 11:22 PM
Not that it happens, but, man, Jeter w/ the Reds would definitely hurt the defense...a lot. It'd be comparable to O-Cab, but nowhere in the same universe as Janish.

In my opinion Jeter's defense has went from vastly overrated to severely underrated over the course of his career. Is he a perennial gold glover even though he has quite a few of them, no. But he ain't no Adam Dunn either. Your comparison to OCab basically hits the nail on the head, which wouldn't really hurt the defense considering OCab received a majority of the starts at SS last year

Spitball
11-24-2010, 11:27 PM
Would you dock a student for using it in the way you don't like?

Fitzgerald and Twain must be cut some slack, but a student should be made aware of the actual meaning of the word. Intentionally using the word as hyperbole should be acceptable when creatively writing. On other writing assignments, a teacher should not ignore the incorrect use of the word.


...in an alright fashion.

This should probably be moved to the non-baseball forum, but is it all right to use alright? A student should be made aware that one form is more acceptable than the other.


For thsoe saying that Jeter would make some sort of dramatic increase in attendance, I cite the example of Griffey Jr, Ken.

Wins sell tickets, not names on the back of the jerseys, even if they are HOFers.

I agree. Also, power hitters tend to be more powerful draws than singles hitters.

Brutus
11-24-2010, 11:30 PM
In my opinion Jeter's defense has went from vastly overrated to severely underrated over the course of his career. Is he a perennial gold glover even though he has quite a few of them, no. But he ain't no Adam Dunn either. Your comparison to OCab basically hits the nail on the head, which wouldn't really hurt the defense considering OCab received a majority of the starts at SS last year

Boy I don't know about that. In 16 seasons, Jeter has had an above average UZR only 3 times. Even if someone doesn't put too much stock into UZR, that's an awful lot of data working against him.

I think he makes a lot of great plays, but they're plays that would be routine for many shortstops. Because his range isn't as good as others, some of the throws he makes on the run look pretty.

I think his footwork and glove work is decent, but just don't think he's a great shortstop.

In this case though, I'm all for the Reds signing him for a few reasons:

A) career .385 OBP
B) It would signal the Reds going out and making a premier free agent signing
C) Love him or hate him, he and Rolen would make one veteran tandem on the left side of the infield

I don't think he would be nearly worth the money it will take to sign him, even if he and the Yankees fall on bad terms. But I think the Reds have a chance to make a statement signing... one that wouldn't be worth the money but would make them a better club.

Brutus
11-24-2010, 11:32 PM
Fitzgerald and Twain must be cut some slack, but a student should be made aware of the actual meaning of the word. Intentionally using the word as hyperbole should be acceptable when creatively writing. On other writing assignments, a teacher should not ignore the incorrect use of the word.



This should probably moved to the non-baseball forum, but is it all right to use alright? A student should be made aware that one form is more acceptable than the other.



I agree. Also, power hitters tend to be more powerful draws than singles hitters.

Yet this is a city that reveres the greatest singles hitter of all-time, some 20 years after he was banned from baseball.

I think Jeter would rejuvenate the Cincinnati fanbase. His mere persona is one of a legend, even if it's been undeserved. Remember we're talking about perception. Perception sells tickets as much as production.

Spitball
11-25-2010, 12:10 AM
Yet this is a city that reveres the greatest singles hitter of all-time, some 20 years after he was banned from baseball.

I think Jeter would rejuvenate the Cincinnati fanbase. His mere persona is one of a legend, even if it's been undeserved. Remember we're talking about perception. Perception sells tickets as much as production.

Then, let's bring back Barry Larkin. He would really rejuvenate the Cincinnati fanbase...and probably pick 'em just as well. ;)

Brutus
11-25-2010, 12:13 AM
Then, let's bring back Barry Larkin. He would really rejuvenate the Cincinnati fanbase...and probably pick 'em just as well. ;)

Is he coercible given his cushy MLBN position? LOL

buckeyenut
11-25-2010, 07:49 AM
My immediate reaction to this was no way. But, the more I think about it, this might be worth it. Jeter is a hometown boy, right? Maybe we could get a hometown discount of some sort if he is leaving NYY?

I think that picking up Jeter, maybe on a 4 year 40M deal, would give us a leadoff hitter, really pump up an already excited fan base and legitimize our world series hopes to the fans, the media and the team. Like folks have said, his defense isn't good, but his offense really fits our needs.

I have also been pimping a trade for Reyes, so that would work too. But picking up a FA Jeter would allow us to use our trade assets for LF or save them.

If we really had the money, I could go for Jeter at SS and Berkman platooning with Gomes in LF (Berkman at around 4-5M / year max) with Heisey as the late inning defensive replacement. I think adding those two guys, coming off the season we just had? The season ticket sales would go absolutely through the roof, enough to justify the $$ outlay. Then if we could really work a deal to move Cordero and offset the money a little bit, we could set ourselves up very nicely.

MartyFan
11-25-2010, 12:44 PM
Except that in 2000, it DID sell tickets. Lots of them, especially season tickets the week after he signed.

The other years, I'll give you. But honeymoons with superstars can dramatically bump attendance.

And if the team wins when they get the superstar and he stays healthy that also has a way of keeping the ticket sales high throughout a deal.

None of that happened when Junior came to town, not his fault, the ownership was weak and not committed to putting the rest of the pieces in place.

Add someone of Jeters status to this team and LOOK OUT for the next 3-5 years.

corkedbat
11-25-2010, 01:08 PM
Love Jeter and wish we had drafted him. I also believe adding him would pay some dividends. One thing to remember though, paying him $15M(+) sets a high bar for Joey's agaent. Kind of hard after signing Jeter to turn around and plead poor to JV.

pedro
11-25-2010, 01:24 PM
My immediate reaction to this was no way. But, the more I think about it, this might be worth it. Jeter is a hometown boy, right? Maybe we could get a hometown discount of some sort if he is leaving NYY?

I think that picking up Jeter, maybe on a 4 year 40M deal, would give us a leadoff hitter, really pump up an already excited fan base and legitimize our world series hopes to the fans, the media and the team. Like folks have said, his defense isn't good, but his offense really fits our needs.

I have also been pimping a trade for Reyes, so that would work too. But picking up a FA Jeter would allow us to use our trade assets for LF or save them.

If we really had the money, I could go for Jeter at SS and Berkman platooning with Gomes in LF (Berkman at around 4-5M / year max) with Heisey as the late inning defensive replacement. I think adding those two guys, coming off the season we just had? The season ticket sales would go absolutely through the roof, enough to justify the $$ outlay. Then if we could really work a deal to move Cordero and offset the money a little bit, we could set ourselves up very nicely.

Jeter grew up in Michigan.

camisadelgolf
11-25-2010, 01:48 PM
Jeter's tie with Cincinnati is that the Reds told him that they'd draft him but instead went for Chad Mottola. He actually seemed somewhat bitter about it, but he said it more than worked out for him in the end.

RED VAN HOT
11-25-2010, 06:40 PM
I may be alone in this, but I want no part of Jeter, Berkman, or Upton. Remember where this team has been. Remember the hand wringing about poor defense and burdensome contracts. Remember when off season discussions centered around getting another starter or two off the discard stack. The Reds are now a winning team with a productive farm system and a manageable payroll. Moreover, the game is moving in the direction of pitching and defense where the Reds are suddenly strong and getting stronger. Jeter and Berkman may not be done, but it is a certainty that their best years are behind them. Upton may never reach super star status and his contract in the out years would reduce his trade value. I don't see these players as the missing pieces. I certainly would not change course to accommodate their inclusion. The Reds don't need their name value. Nor do they need to make a statement, whatever that means. Use resources on keeping the nucleus intact.

The difference between the Reds and the other post season teams is the absence of TOR pitching. The Reds cannot afford to buy one of those. They need to go about the business of developing one or two from the young arms they have.

marcshoe
11-25-2010, 07:31 PM
What they do need, however, is to plug a couple of holes in the offense, which had overall great numbers but was at the same time troublingly inconsistent. I'd love the high-OPS Berkman, defensive troubles at all, in the middle of the lineup. I do agree that I don't want Jeter, however, and figure Upton won't be worth the cost. If it were up to me and a younger, high-production left fielder wasn't available, I'd love to add Berkman and Reyes.

mth123
11-25-2010, 09:22 PM
I may be alone in this, but I want no part of Jeter, Berkman, or Upton. Remember where this team has been. Remember the hand wringing about poor defense and burdensome contracts. Remember when off season discussions centered around getting another starter or two off the discard stack. The Reds are now a winning team with a productive farm system and a manageable payroll. Moreover, the game is moving in the direction of pitching and defense where the Reds are suddenly strong and getting stronger. Jeter and Berkman may not be done, but it is a certainty that their best years are behind them. Upton may never reach super star status and his contract in the out years would reduce his trade value. I don't see these players as the missing pieces. I certainly would not change course to accommodate their inclusion. The Reds don't need their name value. Nor do they need to make a statement, whatever that means. Use resources on keeping the nucleus intact.

The difference between the Reds and the other post season teams is the absence of TOR pitching. The Reds cannot afford to buy one of those. They need to go about the business of developing one or two from the young arms they have.

Agree where Jeter and Berkman are concerned, but a package highlighted by Leake, Alonso and Heisey with 2 or 3 other guys from lower in the minors or lesser ready now guys for Upton would be fine by me. This team's best chance to win is 2011 and 2012. IF AZ is looking for multiple ready now pieces to boost a rebuild and the Reds don't have to give anyone likely to fill a major role in the next couple years, they should go for it.

cincrazy
11-25-2010, 10:58 PM
Agree where Jeter and Berkman are concerned, but a package highlighted by Leake, Alonso and Heisey with 2 or 3 other guys from lower in the minors or lesser ready now guys for Upton would be fine by me. This team's best chance to win is 2011 and 2012. IF AZ is looking for multiple ready now pieces to boost a rebuild and the Reds don't have to give anyone likely to fill a major role in the next couple years, they should go for it.

I agree with you... however, if the Dbacks aren't getting an Upton-type impact player in return, I doubt they do the deal. And while Heisey, Leake and Alonso are all solid players in their own rights, there's no "WOW" factor with any of them. Chapman has that, and I wouldn't be surprised if they demanded him in any package back for Upton. And who can really blame them?

Heath
11-26-2010, 12:29 PM
I can't imagine a 4 yr deal for Jeter. He'd be 40 making $15+M.

I'll pass.

RED VAN HOT
11-26-2010, 01:10 PM
Agree where Jeter and Berkman are concerned, but a package highlighted by Leake, Alonso and Heisey with 2 or 3 other guys from lower in the minors or lesser ready now guys for Upton would be fine by me. This team's best chance to win is 2011 and 2012. IF AZ is looking for multiple ready now pieces to boost a rebuild and the Reds don't have to give anyone likely to fill a major role in the next couple years, they should go for it.

Consider the Arizona point of view. Towers is looking to rebuild the D-backs. Upton is a prize trading chip because he is viewed as an emerging elite player with a favorable near term contract. If Towers can get a ML OF replacement, a young starting pitcher, and a top prospect in return, he has likely improved the ML team, improved the farm system, and reduced payroll. I'd have to think a long time before being on the other side of that trade.

Upton would be a nice player to get if spare parts were the price. Towers is anything but stupid. The price will be higher than that. Getting Upton will be gut wrenching for the GM that finally pulls the trigger.

westofyou
11-26-2010, 01:22 PM
Jeter is not changing leagues, it's unpossible.

mth123
11-26-2010, 01:48 PM
Consider the Arizona point of view. Towers is looking to rebuild the D-backs. Upton is a prize trading chip because he is viewed as an emerging elite player with a favorable near term contract. If Towers can get a ML OF replacement, a young starting pitcher, and a top prospect in return, he has likely improved the ML team, improved the farm system, and reduced payroll. I'd have to think a long time before being on the other side of that trade.

Upton would be a nice player to get if spare parts were the price. Towers is anything but stupid. The price will be higher than that. Getting Upton will be gut wrenching for the GM that finally pulls the trigger.

If that's the case, Upton probably stays put. Leake and Alonso are both guys that they can write in as filling key roles - a rotation spot and a middle of the order bat with OB skills. If they are looking for any more of a building block than that, they should probably just keep Upton. I don't see a team giving up somebody of Upton's caliber, taking on money and adding multiple pieces as well. Say the Reds deal Chapman as the primary piece, then I doubt the other guys added would be much more than filler. It may net Heisey as the second piece, but we'd be talking about fringe guys like Valaika, Herrera and Burton to round out the package.

corkedbat
11-26-2010, 02:10 PM
Jeter would cost too much for the return. Upton would probably require including someone I wouldn't want to lose. I'd like to acquire a solid bat without including Chapman, Mesoraco, Yorman, Hamilton or Joseph. I know a reliever shouldn't be untouchable, but Joseph has become a personal favorite and I think he fits a need in the future.

I'd also like to accomplish it without breaking the bank. Sizemore has two years remaining on a 6year contract that will pay him $7.5M in 2011 with a $9-10M option for 2012.

He's coming off an injury-riddled year, so the tribe might be willing to take a deal of younger guys that aren't in my top five. I'd be willing to start with on from among Leake, Volquez and Bailey (preferrably Leake), either Alonso or Franciso, a reliever (Fisher, Smith or Ondrusek) and one or two other prospects (like Sappelt, Heisey, Frazier, Valaika, Perez, Lecure, Valliquette etc.).

Sizemore would give you a solid bat, excellent defense and you' still have Gomes around for really tough lefties. Sizemore could also spell Stubbs in CF. He's fairly affordable for two seasons and by 2013, you'd have to hope Yorman (or someone else) is knocking on the door. The Indians may well not go for it, but I'd at least kick the tires on it.

Likewise for a deal with the Rangers centered around Volquez for Nelson Cruz. Nick Markakis would be my third target.

Will M
12-02-2010, 09:16 PM
http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20101201/SPT04/312010110/1062/SPT/Reds-talk-to-Votto-Bruce

Reds are 'close' with Cairo & are working to bring Rhodes back.

I have a sinking feeling that after these moves (if they do happen) that Walt will sign some LH bat to platoon with Gomes and call it an offseason.
Why? Despite Walt saying that they are going to up payroll they act like there is little money left in the budget. Marty was asked about Reyes on the Hot Stove radio show last week & replied that if Reyes made more than $4M then the Reds wouldn't trade for him. Short of getting someone to take Cordero (a miracle) then the Reds don't seem to have a lot of money.
I still hold out hope for some big deal but with 1) the Reds not wanting to up payroll much & 2) the fact that it takes 'two to tango' in a trade I think we may all be a bit disappointed this offseason.

OnBaseMachine
12-02-2010, 09:22 PM
Expecting Cairo to repeat his 2010 season is a mistake, IMO. I wouldn't sign him back unless its a minor league deal.

TheNext44
12-02-2010, 10:40 PM
Expecting Cairo to repeat his 2010 season is a mistake, IMO. I wouldn't sign him back unless its a minor league deal.

Reading the tea leaves, it seems that Cairo is willing to sign something close to what he signed for last season. I doubt it will be a minor league deal, I think he earned a major league dea. I also doubt it will be for much more than he made last season. Jocketty wouldn't be optimistic, if Cairo was demanding much more.

camisadelgolf
12-03-2010, 08:05 AM
Fearless prediction: Miguel Cairo will sign a one-year, $1M deal.

edabbs44
12-03-2010, 08:32 AM
Expecting Cairo to repeat his 2010 season is a mistake, IMO. I wouldn't sign him back unless its a minor league deal.

I'm not sure that anyone is really expecting that.

westofyou
12-03-2010, 05:34 PM
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2010/dec/03/are-padres-signing-san-diego-native-aaron-harang-2/



The club could be close to signing free agent right-handed starter Aaron Harang, according to two sources who declined to be identified because they are not authorized to speak on the matter.

Padres General Manager Jed Hoyer declined to comment on Harang.

JaxRed
12-03-2010, 05:40 PM
If SD signs him to a really low dollar deal, than he is worth the risk.

Tom Servo
12-03-2010, 05:53 PM
I'd love to see Harang go back home to SD, return to being a good pitcher, and end his career there in a few years.

RED VAN HOT
12-03-2010, 06:55 PM
I get Cairo getting a few starts to relieve Rolen and occasionally Votto. The infield situation, however, is not as clean as it could be. Even if the starting job goes to Janish, it seems to me that the Reds need to have a player that can make an occasional start SS. By my count Cairo has played only 16 innings at SS over the last three seasons. Valaika seems to be an emergency only option. BP is tethered to 2B. Probably don't want to bring up Cozart unless someone goes on the DL. There has to be another move coming.

OnBaseMachine
12-05-2010, 04:40 PM
Looks like Jayson Werth is headed to the Nationals in a surprising move.

Jayson Werth could be close to a deal with the Washington Nationals: http://bit.ly/ikgFHw

http://twitter.com/ToddZolecki

Sources: Werth to #Nationals confirmed. #MLB

http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal

thatcoolguy_22
12-05-2010, 04:48 PM
Looks like Jayson Werth is headed to the Nationals in a surprising move.

Jayson Werth could be close to a deal with the Washington Nationals: http://bit.ly/ikgFHw

http://twitter.com/ToddZolecki

Sources: Werth to #Nationals confirmed. #MLB

http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal


Wow! Completely unexpected. Can someone shed some light on the current state of the Nationals and there chances to compete in the next 2-3 years?

EDIT: 7 years is entirely too long. what are the numbers? I can't get to twitter on a gov't computer.

OnBaseMachine
12-05-2010, 04:51 PM
It's a 7 year deal for Werth per Jon Heyman.

http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman

Ron Madden
12-05-2010, 04:54 PM
It's a 7 year deal for Werth per Jon Heyman.

Wow! 7 years is too long.

And $126MM is too much.

.

OnBaseMachine
12-05-2010, 04:54 PM
Wow! Completely unexpected. Can someone shed some light on the current state of the Nationals and there chances to compete in the next 2-3 years?

They may be a little better this season but I wouldn't expect them to make a playoff run before 2012 or 2013. They have some talent to build around: Zimmerman, Werth, Strasburg, Ian Desmond, Jordan Zimmerman, Danny Espinosa, Drew Storen, Willingham (though I don't think he's in their future plans), and Bryce Harper could be ready in two years. They still need pitching though. As great as Strasburg is going to be, he needs help.

OnBaseMachine
12-05-2010, 04:58 PM
From Ken Rosenthal:

Source: Werth is 7 yrs, $126M #Nationals #MLB

http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal

CTA513
12-05-2010, 05:02 PM
an average of $18 million a year for Werth?

:laugh:

paintmered
12-05-2010, 05:06 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the newest worst contract in MLB.

Congrats, Nats. You've earned it.

Edd Roush
12-05-2010, 05:07 PM
Willingham (though I don't think he's in their future plans.

This is directed to the whole board and not just OBM, but does this open the door to the Nats trading Willingham or will he just move to the other corner outfield spot?

BTW, I know we missed the best time to acquire Willingham, but I think he could be a great bat to stick in between Votto and Bruce and makes us the favorite to win the division in 2011 if we don't have to give up significant major league talent to acquire him.

Edd Roush
12-05-2010, 05:08 PM
Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the newest worst contract in MLB.

Congrats, Nats. You've earned it.

I'm a Jayson Werth fan in general, but I have to agree. Paying him $18 million dollars when he is 38 is going to be outrageous.

BTW, I think this bumps up Carl Crawford's asking price. Gotta think that the Angels and Red Sox aren't too happy with the Nationals right now...

RedsManRick
12-05-2010, 05:21 PM
Joe Sheehan
Werth by the numbers: times qualified for batting title: 2; seasons w/ 500 AB: 2; 100 games: 4. Contract years: 7. Age in final year: 38.

OnBaseMachine
12-06-2010, 10:17 PM
Can anyone confirm that Tim Kurkjian said the Reds are interested in Ian Desmond of the Nationals? I read it on twitter but haven't seen it reported anywhere else.

Mario-Rijo
12-07-2010, 09:15 AM
Can anyone confirm that Tim Kurkjian said the Reds are interested in Ian Desmond of the Nationals? I read it on twitter but haven't seen it reported anywhere else.

I cannot, however I did read where the Nats are supposedly listening on everyone who is currently healthy except Zimmerman & of course Werth.

Love Desmonds bat & overall talent but his defense is Felipe-Esque if not worse.

GoReds
12-07-2010, 09:51 AM
Just read that the Nats may be in on Cliff Lee for seven years. Would that be north of $170M?

Edited to add:

"Goessling notes that signing a pitcher may allow the Nats to move Josh Willingham for other position pieces that fit their needs. Most notably, he feels, they could use a center fielder to offer long-term insurance beyond Nyjer Morgan."

Heisey for Willingham?

Sea Ray
12-07-2010, 09:55 AM
Sounds like the Nats have money to burn

camisadelgolf
12-07-2010, 10:01 AM
Heisey for Willingham?
No, thank you. Willingham is a one-year rental, and I doubt his ceiling is much higher than Heisey's. Also, I don't think the Reds could afford it without shedding salary, and I don't think the Nationals would have interest in Gomes or Cordero. And that's not even getting into the discussion of which prospect(s) the Reds would need to send Washington's way.

JaxRed
12-07-2010, 10:05 AM
Just how much would Nats have to pay for Lee to keep him away from Yankees? They had to pay Werth 126 million, and no one else was close. You would think they would have to go crazy high (200 million) to outbid Yankees

Mario-Rijo
12-07-2010, 10:07 AM
Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove10/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings101201)


The guy who appears to top their (Philly) list is Arthur Rhodes. But Rhodes just turned 41, has already spent one disastrous season in Philadelphia (0-5 in 2006, with a 5.32 ERA, followed by Tommy John surgery) and has a bunch of teams pursuing him now that the Cincinnati Reds have opted not to offer him arbitration.

I still don't get why the Reds didn't offer arb. to him, really poor decision making IMO. Nice to have known ya Arthur.

Chip R
12-07-2010, 10:13 AM
Just how much would Nats have to pay for Lee to keep him away from Yankees? They had to pay Werth 126 million, and no one else was close. You would think they would have to go crazy high (200 million) to outbid Yankees

From what I've read, Lee is looking for a 7 year deal. I'm guessing if everything's close, 7 years is going to seal the deal.

Ghosts of 1990
12-07-2010, 10:27 AM
The Arthur Rhodes thing really bums me out. IMO he was offseason priority #1. We've done nothing and now we're losing ground. This is really, really bad.

camisadelgolf
12-07-2010, 10:37 AM
Link (http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/hotstove10/columns/story?columnist=stark_jayson&page=rumblings101201)



I still don't get why the Reds didn't offer arb. to him, really poor decision making IMO. Nice to have known ya Arthur.
They didn't offer because he would've accepted. He'd make a lot more money through arbitration than he would as a free agent.

TRF
12-07-2010, 10:53 AM
It's horrible. The Reds didn't offer arb. to a 41 year old pitcher coming off two fantastic seasons. He probably would only have gotten 1.5 mil. No Colorado will crack off and fall into the ocean making Kansas ocean front property.

Rhodes had two great years in Cincinnati, and the door is still open to sign him, but in arb. he'd have gotten a ridiculous raise. and he'd have accepted it too. Almost ZERO chance he declines. And if he suddenly tanks, or becomes even an average pitcher, the Reds will have overpaid.

It's possible Chapman is in the pen in 2011. Willis might be a LOOGY for the Reds as well. Bray, except for his ERA had some fantastic numbers. Smith and Ondrusek were both very good from the right side with Massett and Coredero. Arredondo will be a year+ removed from TJ surgery, about 13 months by the time the season starts. I figure he'll start out in Louisville and get the call mid-May. Plus LeCure, Maloney, Burton, Fisher, DRH...

The Reds have some solid bullpen depth. the loss of one 41 year old pitcher won't amount to much, assuming he doesn't eventually re-sign with the Reds.

I'm not gonna be worried that the Reds MIGHT have lost Rhodes.

Dan
12-07-2010, 10:59 AM
Don't forget Villaquette (sp?) is coming up this year too and appears to be solid out of the pen. Reds have always had a knack for developing relievers. Starters, until the past few years, not so much.

camisadelgolf
12-07-2010, 11:02 AM
Valiquette is far from ready in my eyes. His command is spotty, and his secondary pitches are mediocre. He's still young, so he has time to figure things out, but the 2010 version of Valiquette would get eaten alive in the big leagues.

Dan
12-07-2010, 11:03 AM
Can the Reds score a package of Willingham and Desmond without giving up anyone of real quality? Second tier players like Heisey, Sappelt, LeClure, Maloney, etc?

I'm not exactly sold on Desmond. He seems to be the same level as Janish and we need an upgrade, not status quo.

REDREAD
12-07-2010, 12:19 PM
. Marty was asked about Reyes on the Hot Stove radio show last week & replied that if Reyes made more than $4M then the Reds wouldn't trade for him. .

Keep in mind that Marty knows no more than we do. He just spouts off his opinion as if he has authority or is "in the know". He's been spouting off that the Reds would add no salary for the last 20 years.
He assured us that Jr was not coming. If you asked him in 1999 if the Reds could get Greg Vaughn, he would've said no.

I'm pretty sure that Walt and the front office types are very careful what they let Marty know. They know Marty will blast whatever they tell him over the radio, so they tell him very little. Plus, if they tell him a "maybe" thing, Marty will broadcast it, and then if it doesn't happen, Marty will start badmouthing them all the time for making the "hall of famer" look bad.

Mario-Rijo
12-07-2010, 12:21 PM
It's horrible. The Reds didn't offer arb. to a 41 year old pitcher coming off two fantastic seasons. He probably would only have gotten 1.5 mil. No Colorado will crack off and fall into the ocean making Kansas ocean front property.

Rhodes had two great years in Cincinnati, and the door is still open to sign him, but in arb. he'd have gotten a ridiculous raise. and he'd have accepted it too. Almost ZERO chance he declines. And if he suddenly tanks, or becomes even an average pitcher, the Reds will have overpaid.

It's possible Chapman is in the pen in 2011. Willis might be a LOOGY for the Reds as well. Bray, except for his ERA had some fantastic numbers. Smith and Ondrusek were both very good from the right side with Massett and Coredero. Arredondo will be a year+ removed from TJ surgery, about 13 months by the time the season starts. I figure he'll start out in Louisville and get the call mid-May. Plus LeCure, Maloney, Burton, Fisher, DRH...

The Reds have some solid bullpen depth. the loss of one 41 year old pitcher won't amount to much, assuming he doesn't eventually re-sign with the Reds.

I'm not gonna be worried that the Reds MIGHT have lost Rhodes.

Good, don't. A 41 year old who was thee best reliever in the game (or very very close) the 1st half of the season is a solid loss though. And I am not so sure he would have accepted arbitration. I thought he could have gotten at least a 2 year deal in this market and I felt the Reds would have definitely garnered a pick.

I'm not screaming the sky is falling if he goes somewhere else. What I am lamenting is the Reds F.O. not taking full advantage of the opportunity they found themselves in. Add in the fact that he was damn good when healthy and he'll be a subtraction & you get where I'm coming from.

westofyou
12-07-2010, 12:25 PM
The Arthur Rhodes thing really bums me out. IMO he was offseason priority #1. We've done nothing and now we're losing ground. This is really, really bad.

Really?

A 41 year old LH reliever with foot problems is the teams #1 concern?

Oh the humanity.... Bray looked like he was ready to step up is my guess.

Joseph
12-07-2010, 12:31 PM
Rhodes was great, loved having him in the 'pen, but we have a plethora of lefties who could fill the role. Sure aside from Chapman none are likely to have a first half like him, but if Bray is healthy [big if given the history] he could easily fill that same type role and post an ERA around 3. Very solid, very useful, and very cheaply.

Spend Rhodes money on something else.

redsfandan
12-07-2010, 01:25 PM
Looks like the shortstop some wanted might be dealt soon:

#Orioles and #Rays swap of Jason Bartlett for Nolan Reimold is heating up. One source expects it to happen today,

37 minutes ago via web
Retweeted by 20 people
- danconnollysun
Dan Connolly
http://twitter.com/danconnollysun/status/12201301060358145

Jpup
12-07-2010, 01:26 PM
Willingham for 1 year would be a great idea for the Reds. I'd give them Maloney and something else for him.

westofyou
12-07-2010, 01:30 PM
Rhodes was great, loved having him in the 'pen, but we have a plethora of lefties who could fill the role. Sure aside from Chapman none are likely to have a first half like him, but if Bray is healthy [big if given the history] he could easily fill that same type role and post an ERA around 3. Very solid, very useful, and very cheaply.

Spend Rhodes money on something else.

Exactly, Rhodes faced a total of 217 batters out of 6182 that the team faced, that's a tad more than 1/3 of 1 percent.

Jpup
12-07-2010, 01:35 PM
Exactly, Rhodes faced a total of 217 batters out of 6182 that the team faced, that's a tad more than 1/3 of 1 percent.

sure seemed like he got some big outs in 2010. I love the guy, but I also wouldn't break the bank for him. His age doesn't bother me, but his foot problem does. He's a tough guy so who knows?

westofyou
12-07-2010, 01:39 PM
sure seemed like he got some big outs in 2010. I love the guy, but I also wouldn't break the bank for him. His age doesn't bother me, but his foot problem does. He's a tough guy so who knows?

Oh he got a LOT of big outs, but if we really look at the percentage of what he did it can't all be high leveraged situations, and it can't be something that breaks the bank or drives the team off the cliff if he doesn't return.

camisadelgolf
12-07-2010, 01:54 PM
Willingham for 1 year would be a great idea for the Reds. I'd give them Maloney and something else for him.
I like it; it's a deal that helps both teams.
Maloney + Burton + Gomes for Willingham

Why the Nationals would do it:
They're eager to shed Willingham's salary and obtain pitching.
Jonny Gomes gives some needed outfield depth and a great option against lhp.
Jared Burton is still fairly cheap and gives some needed bullpen depth.
Matt Maloney could be instantly put in the rotation and likely counted on to put up decent numbers in a ballpark that would suit him better than GABP.

Why the Reds would do it:
Willingham is a big upgrade over Jonny Gomes.
Jonny Gomes will make about $2MM, and with Willingham on the roster, he'd be fairly redundant anyway.
The Reds were fine without Burton last year, and he's entering his second year of arbitration.
Matt Maloney is #8 on the depth chart for the rotation, and he's going into his last option year.

RedsManRick
12-07-2010, 02:36 PM
I'm not screaming the sky is falling if he goes somewhere else. What I am lamenting is the Reds F.O. not taking full advantage of the opportunity they found themselves in. Add in the fact that he was damn good when healthy and he'll be a subtraction & you get where I'm coming from.

You have to look at both the upside and the downside. Sure, it would have been great to get a comp pick for him or to have him back and put up another awesome year. But the possibility of him coming back, making $4M and being either injured or much less effective is larger than some people want to suggest.

Was it a missed opportunity? Possibly. But this time next year, we could be saying we dodged a bullet. And in a market like ours, we don't wear very much armor. Bullets hurt -- a lot. I'm all for calculated risks, but sometimes the calculation says the risk isn't worth it.

OnBaseMachine
12-07-2010, 03:08 PM
Not sure what the Reds are up to, then...RT @m_sheldon: Jocketty on #reds: "We've had zero conversations with agents or clubs today."

http://twitter.com/mlbtraderumors

So...what exactly are they doing?

westofyou
12-07-2010, 03:11 PM
So...what exactly are they doing?

Chicken fights?

http://www.indiana.edu/~sierra2/news_02/day1/chicken_fight.jpg

reds44
12-07-2010, 03:17 PM
Looks like the shortstop some wanted might be dealt soon:

#Orioles and #Rays swap of Jason Bartlett for Nolan Reimold is heating up. One source expects it to happen today,

37 minutes ago via web
Retweeted by 20 people
- danconnollysun
Dan Connolly
http://twitter.com/danconnollysun/status/12201301060358145
Nolan Reimold? We can do better than that.

OesterPoster
12-07-2010, 03:22 PM
Not sure what the Reds are up to, then...RT @m_sheldon: Jocketty on #reds: "We've had zero conversations with agents or clubs today."

http://twitter.com/mlbtraderumors

So...what exactly are they doing?

Riding Space Mountain until they puke?

RANDY IN INDY
12-07-2010, 03:25 PM
Not sure what the Reds are up to, then...RT @m_sheldon: Jocketty on #reds: "We've had zero conversations with agents or clubs today."

http://twitter.com/mlbtraderumors

So...what exactly are they doing?

Probably going to pick off the scrap heap and hope for some lightning in a bottle. I hope that isn't going to be the mentality, but it wouldn't surprise me. For me, this is a critical season and juncture for the Reds. Coming off a great season, to think that they can basically stand pat and not improve the club could be a huge gamble. I remember 1971. It was a terrible and deflating year. I don't think they can gamble with the fan base and just hope that it turns out the same way in 2011. They need to improve this ballclub, even if it means spending a little. The return will be much greater than the negative affect a frugal, sitting on your hands approach will have if they don't have a successful season. There is no excuse at that point.

Brutus
12-07-2010, 03:29 PM
Not sure what the Reds are up to, then...RT @m_sheldon: Jocketty on #reds: "We've had zero conversations with agents or clubs today."

http://twitter.com/mlbtraderumors

So...what exactly are they doing?

Is it possible Jocketty is going back into tight vest mode? I mean, he's notoriously not wanted to play his hand in public as a general rule of thumb. This kind of blanket statement seems to be one that indicates he doesn't want people knowing what he's up to.

But the pictures from the Jocketty fishing thread might be appropriate.

Roy Tucker
12-07-2010, 03:32 PM
Chicken fights?



pondering their next move?

http://imgs.xkcd.com/blag/logride_450.jpg

OnBaseMachine
12-07-2010, 03:34 PM
From Mark Sheldon:


"We really just spent the day talking with our group here, seeing what else we need to do or have to do. I think we're at the point where we really like our club, like the depth that we have with the pitching. We like the everyday lineup. Based on where our payroll is, we'll probably go with young guys on the bench. That's the way it's going to be."



http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/12/crickets_and_tumbleweeds.html

Unless Jocketty is posturing (please let him be), then this is very disappointing to read. They seriously don't think Jonny Gomes is the answer in LF, do they?

TRF
12-07-2010, 03:35 PM
Riding Space Mountain until they puke?

didn't know Ric Flair was at the winter meetings.


Woooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

Brutus
12-07-2010, 03:35 PM
http://dearbloggery.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/Indiana-Jones.jpg

westofyou
12-07-2010, 03:36 PM
From Mark Sheldon:



http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/12/crickets_and_tumbleweeds.html

Unless Jocketty is posturing (please let him be), then this is very disappointing to read. They seriously don't think Jonny Gomes is the answer in LF, do they?

2 months till ST, no deals have to be made at the party, sometimes that's just the place the hook up begins.

TRF
12-07-2010, 03:53 PM
From Mark Sheldon:



http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/12/crickets_and_tumbleweeds.html

Unless Jocketty is posturing (please let him be), then this is very disappointing to read. They seriously don't think Jonny Gomes is the answer in LF, do they?

He's thought that two years running. Can't imagine he'd change his mind just yet.

The only two areas that need to be addressed is LF and SS. Every other position is locked down. The rotation is 8 deep. The pen is about 8 deep. You don't break the bank on LF. SS maybe, but not LF. (Well, maybe if the 2001 version of Barry Bonds became available....)

There is only one LF on the market that MIGHT be worth spending a pile o cash on: Crawford. That's it. He'd fill several needs: Defense, leadoff, adds some additional pop in the OF, can play multiple positions, and is another LH bat in a lineup with mostly RH hitters.


But the Reds aren't going to get Crawford.

Here is the 2010 FA list of outfielders. Some of these guys have signed already.
Type A* Type B**

Left Fielders

Garret Anderson (39)

Pat Burrell (34)

Carl Crawford (29)*

Johnny Damon (37)**

Jonny Gomes (30) - club option

Willie Harris (33)

Jeremy Hermida (27)

Reed Johnson (34)

Austin Kearns (31)

Jason Kubel (29)* - club option

Corey Patterson (31)

Scott Podsednik (35)** - mutual option

Manny Ramirez (39)*

Matt Stairs (43)

Cory Sullivan (31)

Marcus Thames (34)

Randy Winn (37)

Center Fielders

Rick Ankiel (31) - mutual option

Willie Bloomquist (33)

Melky Cabrera (26)

Coco Crisp (31) - mutual option

Jim Edmonds (41)

Jody Gerut (33)

Right Fielders

Jermaine Dye (37)

Jose Guillen (35)

Brad Hawpe (32)**

Jeremy Hermida (27)

Andruw Jones (34)

Gabe Kaper (35)

Gary Matthews Jr. (36)

Magglio Ordonez (37)*

Jayson Werth (32)*


Other than Crawford, is there anyone on this list you would want? Maybe Hermida, maybe. I'd rather go with the kids and DFA Gomes. Frazier, Francisco, Dorn, Heisey can all provide the same or better production than Gomes. Probably better D too. Well, maybe the same D from Dorn, but I bet he'd outhit Gomes.

edabbs44
12-07-2010, 03:57 PM
I'm so glad Walt seems to do his own thing and not what others think he has to do.

edabbs44
12-07-2010, 03:59 PM
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79120&highlight=jocketty

BRM
12-07-2010, 05:19 PM
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79120&highlight=jocketty (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79120&highlight=jocketty)

That is one hilarious thread.

Tom Servo
12-07-2010, 06:23 PM
didn't know Ric Flair was at the winter meetings.


Woooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3206/2375254148_3201d51045_o.gif

TheNext44
12-07-2010, 06:30 PM
http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79120&highlight=jocketty

Right after this thread, Chapman was signed. And I kinda remember this season working out somewhat okay.

Heath
12-07-2010, 10:16 PM
This might be one of the worst free agent classes in recent memory.

Some people are going to be very mediocre and very rich.

AFAIK, Walt can pass these meetings and pick up Billy Hatcher for Whitey Richardson in ST for all I care.

Ron Madden
12-08-2010, 03:10 AM
2 months till ST, no deals have to be made at the party, sometimes that's just the place the hook up begins.



When was the last time the Reds made a significant trade during the Winter Meetings?

My memory isn't as good as it once was but it sure seems to me that most of the Reds major trades happened before or after the Winter Meetings.

If anyone would know for sure it would be you. Please let me know if my recollection is true or false. I don't blame you if you don't want to research it but Thank You in advance either way.

Redsfan320
12-08-2010, 07:48 AM
When was the last time the Reds made a significant trade during the Winter Meetings?

The Freel/Hernandez swap was made during the '08-'09 WMs.

320

lollipopcurve
12-08-2010, 11:13 AM
Rumor out that the Dbacks may have interest in Heisey. This would present an interesting opening for the Reds. Dbacks are also short on starting pitching, and they just lost out in a high stakes faceoff for Konerko, leaving them with an opening at 1B.

Really sets up perfectly for a swap with the Reds.

RedsManRick
12-08-2010, 11:14 AM
Nick Piecoro
Heard the Dbacks have some interest in Reds OF Chris Heisey. Internal discussions only, at this point.

Heisey for Upton. Done.

Seriously though, if they're interested in Hesiey, I'd love to talk about something based on either Alonso or Voqluez with Hesiey and another prospect...

edabbs44
12-08-2010, 11:17 AM
Didn't the DBacks say that Upton is now off the table?

Obviously no one is ever completely off the table, but I guess they aren't actively looking to trade him.

RedsManRick
12-08-2010, 11:24 AM
Didn't the DBacks say that Upton is now off the table?

Obviously no one is ever completely off the table, but I guess they aren't actively looking to trade him.

I think that's accurate, but I rarely put stock in 'on-the-table' / 'off-the-table' distinctions for precisely the reason you stated. Short of a "the guy is not available, period" declaration, he's available -- it's simply a function of price. And at the end of the day, we don't really have a good sense on the likelihood of any specific trade happening. I'll continue to dream.

JaxRed
12-08-2010, 11:41 AM
If D-backs are interested in Heisey, we should probably pursue it. He doesn't appear to be in the starting mix for us anytime soon, and could probably be replaced by Sappelt.

Since obviously Upton and Drew aren't happening, and the Reds are relatively set elsewhere, a high ceiling guy in A ball seems to be a nice return.

lollipopcurve
12-08-2010, 11:44 AM
Since obviously Upton and Drew aren't happening, and the Reds are relatively set elsewhere, a high ceiling guy in A ball seems to be a nice return.

I wouldn't be so sure on Upton now. Towers has said he'd deal him to fill multiple holes. The Reds have the pieces to fill the holes the Dbacks have, especially now that Konerko is going back to the White Sox.

JaxRed
12-08-2010, 11:45 AM
Did you see that Reds gave Arroyo a deferred contract just so they can afford the guys they have for this season? The Reds are taking on no more salary.

lollipopcurve
12-08-2010, 11:48 AM
Did you see that Reds gave Arroyo a deferred contract just so they can afford the guys they have for this season? The Reds are taking on no more salary.

Did you know Upton is due to make 4.25 million in 2011?

Put a starter in with Alonso and Heisey and you may be over 4.25, depending on the starter.

OnBaseMachine
12-08-2010, 12:01 PM
From Ken Rosenthal:

Cairo close to returning to #Reds. #MLB

http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal

I just hope it's a minor league deal.

TRF
12-08-2010, 12:33 PM
If Upton is traded, IMO, it won't happen until mid ST or possibly close to the end of it. They dealt Reynolds for pitching and just signed JJ Putz. Their OF reminds me of the Alex Ochoa days where the Reds invited a ton of players to ST hoping one shines. (WMP?)

That is a weak OF minus Upton. The IF is Kelly Johnson, Stephen Drew and... nothing special offensively at the corners. I'm thinking WMP will feast on the pitching early in ST, and win the 4th OF spot. They need the power.

Alonso, Heisey, LeCure and Donnie Joseph for Upton. In fact, I'd be willing to part with Leake or Wood in place of LeCure.

Heath
12-08-2010, 12:40 PM
Maybe Walt has Heisey on the table with another club and gave Nick Piecoro a couple of free drinks at the hotel bar to spread some rumors.

JaxRed
12-08-2010, 12:45 PM
"Alonso, Heisey, LeCure and Donnie Joseph for Upton. In fact, I'd be willing to part with Leake or Wood in place of LeCure. "

OK, what's the impact on salary with this trade? Remember, they can't take on any salary.