PDA

View Full Version : Diamondbacks have no plans to bring back Webb



savafan
11-03-2010, 12:27 AM
http://www.foxsportsarizona.com/11/02/10/Brandon-Webb-It-was-great-while-it-laste/landing.html?blockID=344354&feedID=3702

corkedbat
11-03-2010, 01:02 AM
http://www.foxsportsarizona.com/11/02/10/Brandon-Webb-It-was-great-while-it-laste/landing.html?blockID=344354&feedID=3702

I'd be interested in a Minor League contract and have him start out in L'Ville. I'd be willing to structure the contract so that he would be paid as quality strter if he can regain his form with an option that vests if he reaches certain numbers. It would all have to be highly performance base though. I figure someone like the Cards is more willing to roll the dice though and offer better.

As a matter of fact, I expect that St. Loony is where he ends up.

dunner13
11-03-2010, 09:23 AM
I think webb would be a great pickup, especially if we are going to consider trading one of our starters to get a bat.

lollipopcurve
11-03-2010, 10:04 AM
I liked the idea before the reports came out that his fastball is in the low 80s.

RedsManRick
11-03-2010, 10:05 AM
I'm sure we'll be at his next tryout, but I don't think he signs anywhere until the spring.

westofyou
11-03-2010, 10:42 AM
I'm sure we'll be at his next tryout, but I don't think he signs anywhere until the spring.

Reds are too stacked.

He's an Astro, Pirate or Brewer

Mario-Rijo
11-03-2010, 11:32 AM
I liked the idea before the reports came out that his fastball is in the low 80s.

When he was being successful he was only throwing in the high 80's.

kaldaniels
11-03-2010, 11:35 AM
The treasures I would have given up for Brandon Webb 3-4 years ago. I dreamed of that sinker in GABP.

You just never know.

lollipopcurve
11-03-2010, 11:37 AM
When he was being successful he was only throwing in the high 80's.

Your point?

Brutus
11-03-2010, 11:40 AM
Your point?

I think his point is that his throwing in the low or mid 80's isn't really terribly different from what has made him successful.

According to Fangraphs, the average speed on his fastball for his entire career is 88 MPH.

So really, until he builds up more stamina and gets back into the routine of pitching, being in the low 80's after major surgery sounds actually about right.

In other words, I don't think throwing in the low 80's right now really tells us too much.

lollipopcurve
11-03-2010, 12:08 PM
So really, until he builds up more stamina and gets back into the routine of pitching, being in the low 80's after major surgery sounds actually about right.

The surgery has not been described as major. On the contrary...


Instead, Dr. Keith Meister performed what is known as a debridement, which is the surgical removal of lacerated, devitalized or contaminated tissue. Webb said that some shaving was done to the labrum area where it was frayed.

"[The damage was] just normal wear and tear you get from pitching," Webb told MLB.com. "It was as good as could be expected. There were no sutures put in there, no tears or anything like that, which is huge. [Meister] said, 'It's like getting gravel out of your shoe.'"

Webb was trying to get ready for the opening of the 2010 season. The fact that he can't get out of the low 80s now, even after the season, is significant, in my view. Look, he threw a power sinker. Now, he can't even get mediocre power on his fastball, much less a sinker. Not a guy the team should outbid the field on, IMO. If he's cheap and wants to pitch in Cincy, sure, you give him a mound to throw off in Goodyear. But unless he makes a quantum leap forward from where he is now, you don't go offering him anything guaranteed.

Brutus
11-03-2010, 12:32 PM
The surgery has not been described as major. On the contrary...



Webb was trying to get ready for the opening of the 2010 season. The fact that he can't get out of the low 80s now, even after the season, is significant, in my view. Look, he threw a power sinker. Now, he can't even get mediocre power on his fastball, much less a sinker. Not a guy the team should outbid the field on, IMO. If he's cheap and wants to pitch in Cincy, sure, you give him a mound to throw off in Goodyear. But unless he makes a quantum leap forward from where he is now, you don't go offering him anything guaranteed.

I wouldn't throw big money at him, especially if I'm Cincinnati since I have the luxury of not necessarily needing to do that. But I do think you might be drastically over analyzing the speed reports. It's very, very common for guys to throw several MPH slower in the offseason. When they get into a routine in spring, and start building their stamina back, usually those few MPH work their way back.

lollipopcurve
11-03-2010, 02:16 PM
I wouldn't throw big money at him, especially if I'm Cincinnati since I have the luxury of not necessarily needing to do that. But I do think you might be drastically over analyzing the speed reports. It's very, very common for guys to throw several MPH slower in the offseason. When they get into a routine in spring, and start building their stamina back, usually those few MPH work their way back.

Webb HAS been working to get himself back since the spring. In fact, he claims to be worn out from all the rehab, and he's going to take time off now. Go to the Dbacks web site and read the latest news piece on him. This does not appear to be a case of a rehab that's "on course" in any way.

He may regain velo some time in the future, but I think it's clear

Brutus
11-03-2010, 02:29 PM
Webb HAS been working to get himself back since the spring. In fact, he claims to be worn out from all the rehab, and he's going to take time off now. Go to the Dbacks web site and read the latest news piece on him. This does not appear to be a case of a rehab that's "on course" in any way.

He may regain velo some time in the future, but I think it's clear

We'll see, but it's hardly clear. Guys throw harder when they get into game situations. That's something that's been fairly well established.

Not saying that Webb is a sure thing. Obviously there's some reason for concern. But those reports are way too premature to write him off.

lollipopcurve
11-03-2010, 02:33 PM
We'll see, but it's hardly clear. Guys throw harder when they get into game situations.

He has been throwing in game situations -- instructional league.

Brutus
11-03-2010, 03:06 PM
He has been throwing in game situations -- instructional league.

Game situations in an instructional league are simply nothing like an actual game in the Majors. Just not the same. You could probably find hundreds of examples of guys not throwing nearly as hard in those situations as they would when they get into an actual game.

lollipopcurve
11-03-2010, 03:29 PM
Game situations in an instructional league are simply nothing like an actual game in the Majors. Just not the same. You could probably find hundreds of examples of guys not throwing nearly as hard in those situations as they would when they get into an actual game.

So, you think Webb has been saving his energy or something?

There is no question Webb has been doing all he can to regain as much of his form as possible. After all, he's out of a contract. The velo he's shown is the velo he has. While I can buy the possibility that he could be better down the road, the notion that he just isn't summoning the requisite adrenalin for better velocity because he's not facing major leaguers is absurd, IMO.

Brutus
11-03-2010, 03:42 PM
So, you think Webb has been saving his energy or something?

There is no question Webb has been doing all he can to regain as much of his form as possible. After all, he's out of a contract. The velo he's shown is the velo he has. While I can buy the possibility that he could be better down the road, the notion that he just isn't summoning the requisite adrenalin for better velocity because he's not facing major leaguers is absurd, IMO.

Not only is it not absurd, it's actually supported by precedent. The adrenalin level is nothing alike.

I'm sure you played sports in high school. Did you ever get any kind of the same rush in practice as you did as a game? Did you run as fast? Throw as hard? Hit with the same force? Get the same lift on your jump shot?

Pitchers can rear back and get a few extra MPH on their fastball when they're in a game situation than they often do in practice, warm ups or throwing in the side. Do you think Aroldis always throws in the 100's?

After Webb is fully healed, gets back into game shape and is in an actual game, if he's not back up in the upper 80's, then it's time to concede a problem. Until then, it's really impossible to gain much clarity.

lollipopcurve
11-03-2010, 04:07 PM
Not only is it not absurd, it's actually supported by precedent. The adrenalin level is nothing alike.

I'm sure you played sports in high school. Did you ever get any kind of the same rush in practice as you did as a game? Did you run as fast? Throw as hard? Hit with the same force? Get the same lift on your jump shot?

Pitchers can rear back and get a few extra MPH on their fastball when they're in a game situation than they often do in practice, warm ups or throwing in the side. Do you think Aroldis always throws in the 100's?

After Webb is fully healed, gets back into game shape and is in an actual game, if he's not back up in the upper 80's, then it's time to concede a problem. Until then, it's really impossible to gain much clarity.

There is no doubt that only the future will reveal how far Webb can make it back. My contention is that his rehab is not "on course," and that his failure to get out of the low 80s with his fastball is a significant disappointment at this juncture, over a year removed from what was described as "minor" surgery. Honestly, I don't see how a careful reading of his progress since the surgery can lead anyone to a different conclusion.

redsfandan
11-03-2010, 06:40 PM
Reds are too stacked.

He's an Astro, Pirate or Brewer

Are the Reds minors too stacked with starting pitching too? Cuz I bet he'll be pitching in the minors somewhere to start the season. If he can improve enough, then the Reds would have a good problem to have. If he doesn't, no big loss. It will be interesting to see how much a contender close to Kentucky appeals to him.

lollipopcurve
11-18-2010, 08:34 PM
There's a poster on the Sundeck from Ashland KY, Brandon Webb's hometown, saying Webb wants to pitch for the Reds. So, I'm going to change my tune a little on this, Since he wants to pitch in Cincy, I think the Reds have to seriously consider giving him a decently incented major league deal. Having guys who want to be there -- over anywhere else -- is a good thing. And when you factor in Webb's resume, Cy Young and all, there's more than a feelgood story, there's real upside.

Hope it happens.

OnBaseMachine
11-18-2010, 08:37 PM
There's a poster on the Sundeck from Ashland KY, Brandon Webb's hometown, saying Webb wants to pitch for the Reds. So, I'm going to change my tune a little on this, Since he wants to pitch in Cincy, I think the Reds have to seriously consider giving him a decently incented major league deal. Having guys who want to be there -- over anywhere else -- is a good thing. And when you factor in Webb's resume, Cy Young and all, there's more than a feelgood story, there's real upside.

Hope it happens.

Agreed. I hope the Reds sign him to an incentive laden deal. As the cliche goes, you can never have enough pitching.

Matt700wlw
11-19-2010, 12:42 AM
I'm in.

The worst that happens, he doesn't have it and the Reds are out pennies (in baseball terms, of course).

The best that happens is a healthy Brandon Webb helps anchor one of the deepest pitching staffs in all of baseball....


Sounds like a win win to me.

corkedbat
11-19-2010, 01:38 AM
I'm in.

The worst that happens, he doesn't have it and the Reds are out pennies (in baseball terms, of course).

The best that happens is a healthy Brandon Webb helps anchor one of the deepest pitching staffs in all of baseball....


Sounds like a win win to me.

If its a minor league deal, I'm all for it. At worst it costs you a year's worth of a spot in the Bats rotation. You'd probably have someone like Lehr there anyway. Why not BW. At best, he turns things around and can help, if not this year, the 2012 after Bronson moves on (if not re-upped).

If Webb can regain the magic, he's perfect for the GAB. As a little bonus, he could be a big draw for the Eastern KY area.

If he really does want to pitch for the Reds, the Reds think there's even half a chance that he regains form and its a minor legue deal, I'd say its probably even money it happens. Not sure if any of those three conditions are true though.

Chip R
11-19-2010, 10:19 AM
Agreed. I hope the Reds sign him to an incentive laden deal. As the cliche goes, you can never have enough pitching.


No incentive deal. Don't want to see a guy pitch hurt to make his incentives. Perhaps a non-roster invite to ST would be a good idea.

Jpup
11-19-2010, 10:44 AM
Webb's agent says he is ready to pitch 30 plus games in 2011. He's not going to take a Minor League deal. I would guess that he'll want more than a one year deal too.

westofyou
11-19-2010, 10:49 AM
Webb's shoulder says differently I bet

http://www.slate.com/id/2100895/



Leading baseball surgeon Dr. James Andrews estimates that 85 percent of pitchers make a full recovery after an ulnar collateral ligament reconstruction, aka the once risky Tommy John surgery. (USA Today has even called the surgery the "pitcher's best friend.") But if pitchers with torn labrums were horses, they'd be destroyed. Of the 36 major-league hurlers diagnosed with labrum tears in the last five years, only midlevel reliever Rocky Biddle has returned to his previous level. Think about that when your favorite pitcher comes down with labrum trouble: He has a 3 percent chance of becoming Rocky Biddle. More likely, he'll turn into Mike Harkey, Robert Person, or Jim Parque, pitchers who lost stamina and velocity—and a major-league career—when their labrums began to fray.

redsfandan
11-19-2010, 10:49 AM
Webb's agent says he is ready to pitch 30 plus games in 2011. He's not going to take a Minor League deal. I would guess that he'll want more than a one year deal too.

Source?

If that's the case then I don't see a fit.

Jpup
11-19-2010, 10:54 AM
Source?

If that's the case then I don't see a fit.

source for what? My opinion is that he isn't going to take a MiLB deal. The part about his agent came from MLBTR yesterday.

redsfandan
11-19-2010, 10:58 AM
source for what? My opinion is that he isn't going to take a MiLB deal. The part about his agent came from MLBTR yesterday.

Doubt it. I think he'll have to. But who knows.

camisadelgolf
11-19-2010, 11:38 AM
Doubt it. I think he'll have to. But who knows.
Tim Dierkes says he wouldn't be surprised by $5-6MM, not including incentives.
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/11/free-agent-stock-watch-brandon-webb.html

REDREAD
11-19-2010, 12:28 PM
I know Webb is from the area and likes Cincy, but I just don't see a good fit at all. I don't see him accepting a minor league contract here, and pitching in Louisville, basically hoping that one of our young kids falters.

There's so many teams that would be willing to give him that 3-6 million guaranteed and guarantee him a slot in the rotation.

RedsManRick
11-19-2010, 12:31 PM
Why would Webb come out and say he'd take a minor league deal? It's a bargaining position.

PuffyPig
11-19-2010, 01:38 PM
When he was being successful he was only throwing in the high 80's.

Well, the difference between the high 80's and the low 80's is HOF Hoffman and Gopher Ball Hoffman.

Scrap Irony
11-19-2010, 03:38 PM
I'd take Webb and give him a major league roster spot (after the Rule V), but it would have to be an incentive-laden deal, in the hopes of striking gold. There's little to lose other than that spot and the Reds have a few of them available.

If he's bad in Spring Training, you can cut him. If he's good, you've got a nice chip so that others can be dealt.

kaldaniels
11-22-2010, 01:26 PM
No incentive deal. Don't want to see a guy pitch hurt to make his incentives. Perhaps a non-roster invite to ST would be a good idea.

Nothing wrong with an incentive based deal if the team handles it wisely.

OnBaseMachine
12-21-2010, 07:07 PM
From Jerry Crasnick:

There's also an unidentified NL Central team that's trying to make a late run at Webb.

http://twitter.com/jcrasnick

Brutus
12-21-2010, 07:21 PM
From Jerry Crasnick:

There's also an unidentified NL Central team that's trying to make a late run at Webb.

http://twitter.com/jcrasnick

I think I read somewhere the Cubs were after him. But if it's not the Cubs, it's probably the Cardinals.

bucksfan2
12-21-2010, 07:22 PM
From Jerry Crasnick:

There's also an unidentified NL Central team that's trying to make a late run at Webb.

http://twitter.com/jcrasnick

I would love to see the Reds make a run at Webb. But me thinks the Cards may be the unidentified NL Central team.

lollipopcurve
12-21-2010, 08:50 PM
I hope it's the Reds. More or less a hometown kid fighting for his career.

RedLegSuperStar
12-21-2010, 08:51 PM
I would love to see the Reds make a run at Webb. But me thinks the Cards may be the unidentified NL Central team.

Pirates

cincyinco
12-21-2010, 09:04 PM
What if its the Brewers? They are contenders now after all.

Captain Hook
12-21-2010, 09:07 PM
What if its the Brewers? They are contenders now after all.

If they add Webb and he ends up being healthy I'd start being a bit worried.

OnBaseMachine
12-26-2010, 01:41 PM
From Jayson Stark:

#Cubs & #Nationals are out on Brandon Webb, sources say. So Webb is down to 2 teams - #Rangers & NL Central "mystery team."

http://twitter.com/jaysonst/status/19083842031722496

I hope it's not the Cardinals.

Dan
12-26-2010, 02:08 PM
I hope the Reds are in on Webb. Would take some pressure off the younger pitchers and add depth. Plus a pitcher could be included in a deal to bring in a SS like Reyes.

Have to sign Webb to an incentive laden contract with 2 option years though. I wonder if that's the hang-up. No agent is going to let him go for more than 1 year in case he pitches lights out.

mth123
12-26-2010, 02:16 PM
Webb has had shoulder issues. Unlike elbows, these are much more difficult for a successful return. I have to wonder if some smart team wouldn't be after Webb as a member of its bullpen. Following the Kerry Wood plan just might be right for Webb. I'm guessing that if St. Louis is the mystery team, they may just have this in mind. Milwaukee would be wise to do this as well.

I wouldn't mind the Reds giving him a look, but I'd hope an additional move involving one of the Reds starters for an impact offensive player would follow.

dunner13
12-26-2010, 03:31 PM
Aren't we always the mystery team, at least since Walt became the GM. We were the mystery team on chapman and lee, and Im sure we are the mystery team here again. My guess is the reds are offering less money then the rangers but the chance for webb to pitch close to home. If we do get him he gives us the possiblity of having a legit #1 ace for the playoffs, obviously theres the risk that his arm is shot and he gives us nothing but I think if a small market team has a shot at getting a proven #1 they have to take it. Plus adding webb might give us the ability to deal one of our young SP for stephen drew or someone like that.

Kc61
12-26-2010, 03:34 PM
I hope the Reds are in on Webb. Would take some pressure off the younger pitchers and add depth. Plus a pitcher could be included in a deal to bring in a SS like Reyes.

Have to sign Webb to an incentive laden contract with 2 option years though. I wonder if that's the hang-up. No agent is going to let him go for more than 1 year in case he pitches lights out.

Good post. Agree.

Deal has to be structured reasonably, but Reds should be in on Webb. Still a potential top end pitcher who would particularly like to pitch in Cincy. Doesn't happen that often and Reds should try to take opportunity.

Ron Madden
12-26-2010, 03:49 PM
I'd like to see Webb agree to a reasonable deal with the Reds but I think he'll go to Texas.

membengal
12-26-2010, 04:19 PM
Shoulders are so dicey. Planning on him as a flyer? Because he sure isn't a top of the rotation hoss at this point in time. Far from it.

MartyFan
12-26-2010, 04:34 PM
Love that the Reds are in on Webb...he returns to form or even 3/4 form and he can be lights out...I'd also consider him a candidate for the BP at least for his first season back.

TheNext44
12-26-2010, 05:01 PM
Love that the Reds are in on Webb...he returns to form or even 3/4 form and he can be lights out...I'd also consider him a candidate for the BP at least for his first season back.

That brings up the big question if the Reds do sign him. What to do with him in 2011?

He doesn't seem healthy enough for the rotation, and I doubt he wants to pitch in Louisville. Will he be willing to pitch in the bullpen? Would he be good enough to justify a spot in the bullpen? Lot's of question suggests that he would have to take much less than what the Rangers are offering to sign with the Reds.

redsfandan
12-26-2010, 05:23 PM
Mlbtraderumors is saying that Webb has reached an agreement with the Rangers (pending a physical).

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/rangers-reach-agreement-with-webb.html

Brutus
12-26-2010, 06:17 PM
Mlbtraderumors is saying that Webb has reached an agreement with the Rangers (pending a physical).

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/rangers-reach-agreement-with-webb.html

Just a pet peeve of mine...

But actually Ed Price of Fanhouse says that. MLBTR is just citing that report.

It seems like nitpicking, but I think the credit for the story should go to the original report, not sites that just re-run the news.

Sorry for sounding petty. MLBTR is a great resource because it culls all the reports to a one-stop-shop. I just hate to see them get credit for other peoples' hard work.

OnBaseMachine
12-26-2010, 06:18 PM
It looks like the Reds were the mystery team...

http://mlbbuzz.yardbarker.com/blog/mlbbuzz/webb_rangers_or_reds/3854993

TheNext44
12-26-2010, 06:40 PM
I can't blame Webb for choosing the Rangers. He needs to start every 5th day in order to rebuild his value, and the Reds couldn't offer that. I have a feeling that the Reds never inquired about him, but he came to them after he got a firm offer from the Rangers and asked what they could offer. Reports were pretty strong that he wanted to pitch for the Reds.

mth123
12-26-2010, 06:47 PM
[Shoulders scare me]

Kind of glad the Reds missed here. I'm guessing Willis has a better chance of being a good pitcher than Webb and represents the Reds attempt at catching lightning in a bottle.

I'd rather they spend the remaining bucks on a sure, even if only incremental, improvement. Johnny Damon or Fred Lewis would be good ideas. Taking on a medium sized salary in a deal might help. Squandering our last remaining cow on magic beans might net the goose that lays golden eggs, but too often leaves you with nothing.

[Shoulders scare me]

membengal
12-26-2010, 07:04 PM
+1 on that mth. Didn't want, based on shoulder issue and not sure he fit a need.

Brutus
12-26-2010, 07:08 PM
+1 on that mth. Didn't want, based on shoulder issue and not sure he fit a need.

He doesn't fit a regular season need, but if we're aiming higher, and given how good he is when he's healthy and at his best, anyone that watched the baseball playoffs last season should agree he fits a major need.

The Reds still don't have a go-to, top of the rotation starter that is counted on in big games. They have several guys that fit the profile of someone that can become that, but they still don't have it.

Greinke, Webb, etc., these guys are much closer to that than the Reds have. The shoulder issue obviously makes Webb less than a sure thing. But because he's been, before, what the Reds are lacking, I'm disappointed they didn't get him.

All that said, I'd still like another bat either at the top of the order or middle of the order.

membengal
12-26-2010, 07:59 PM
You are thinking of the Webb that was, not the Webb that is. The top of the rotation Webb is gone. And won't be what you want for the playoffs.

Shoulders like he suffered are a relentless and cruel mistress.

PuffyPig
12-26-2010, 08:02 PM
I'm happy to see him with the Rangers.

I don't want to take the chance (however slim) he ended with the Cards.

Brutus
12-26-2010, 08:21 PM
You are thinking of the Webb that was, not the Webb that is. The top of the rotation Webb is gone. And won't be what you want for the playoffs.

Shoulders like he suffered are a relentless and cruel mistress.

We don't know the Webb that is. No one knows what he'll be, so it's too presumptive to write him off. We do know what he's been, though, and while there's no questioning shoulder injuries often don't turn out well, you don't know yet what's going to happen. But for a one year deal, it's sure worth finding out.

PuffyPig
12-26-2010, 08:32 PM
But for a one year deal, it's sure worth finding out.

That depends, doesn't it, on the price?

Brutus
12-26-2010, 08:45 PM
That depends, doesn't it, on the price?

Because it's only one season, and the Reds would not have likely spent that money anyhow, I don't feel it does in this case. If it were a case of using that money wisely, sure, but since it doesn't appear they're going to spend it anyhow... I'm not too concerned by the price (since we're not talking $15 million).

TheNext44
12-26-2010, 09:59 PM
Because it's only one season, and the Reds would not have likely spent that money anyhow, I don't feel it does in this case. If it were a case of using that money wisely, sure, but since it doesn't appear they're going to spend it anyhow... I'm not too concerned by the price (since we're not talking $15 million).

The Reds still need a LF and some bench help. I am pretty sure they aren't done.

Brutus
12-26-2010, 10:40 PM
The Reds still need a LF and some bench help. I am pretty sure they aren't done.

I think that. You think that. But do the Reds think that?

Nothing they've said or done thus far indicates they're too concerned about it. If Scott Podsednik is the answer, I'll feel Taveras'd.

membengal
12-27-2010, 08:45 AM
To be clear, brutus, I really very much wanted them to find a hammer for the top of the rotation this off-season (see the Grienke thread) and was advocating dealing from the pitching depth to do so (I think I pimped two of three of Volquez/Bailey/Leake to get it theoretically done as a starting point). But I want the person brought in to be a no questions asked TOR, not an embalmed in questions recovery project. This team really doesn't have the room to carry such a project at this point in the rotation. And Webb in the bullpen to see what he has doesn't fill the playoff need you mention.

So, no, Webb looked like an awkward target to me. At this point, having missed on Grienke, it looks like the die is cast to hoping that Volquez recaptures his pre-TJ form fully and that Cueto continues to improve while Wood is what he looked like last year and Bailey and/or Leake finds their form. That all could happen in some form or another, but it is a risk, that's for sure. Because any of a number of those hopes could come up short.

_Sir_Charles_
12-27-2010, 11:50 AM
The Reds still need a LF and some bench help. I am pretty sure they aren't done.

I know most of the fans feel this way, but everything I've read leads me to believe that the Reds think Gomes IS the full-time answer to leftfield. And as for the bench...we've got an awful lot of rooks sitting down there in L'ville waiting for a shot. I don't see the bench as much of a concern. The only other "hole" to be filled is shortstop according to the masses. But with the cupboard bare...I do believe Paul will get his first full-season opportunity.

I think they're done.

PuffyPig
12-27-2010, 11:56 AM
I know most of the fans feel this way, but everything I've read leads me to believe that the Reds think Gomes IS the full-time answer to leftfield.



Does the fact they are rumoured to be looking at Posdesnik mean maybe they aren't?

mth123
12-27-2010, 12:18 PM
Sounds like Webb's deal is $3 Million plus incentives. That's about what the Reds have left. I'd rather not spend it on such a question mark.

The Voice of IH
12-27-2010, 01:45 PM
Please, keep these discussions segregated. they are different issues.

Webb would not have been a fit, we don't need pitching next season. Stick with the young guns. Stay the course.

RedsManRick
12-27-2010, 04:09 PM
Yet another example of Jocketty keeping his cards close. Judging Jocketty's activity based on what rumors get out is a recipe for perennially underestimating his efforts. As with this, we may not always come out on top, but we shouldn't let that confuse us in to thinking Jocketty isn't continually exploring opportunities.

Brutus
12-27-2010, 06:19 PM
Sounds like Webb's deal is $3 Million plus incentives. That's about what the Reds have left. I'd rather not spend it on such a question mark.

My question would be this:

Do you feel there's any chance of spending the remaining money (be it $3 million or what have you) on anyone left out there that isn't a question mark? With that amount, my instinct is to say anyone Cincinnati signs/trades for is likely not going to be a sure thing.

Seems Webb could have brought by far the most potential, and $3 million is a low risk and awfully high reward.

mth123
12-27-2010, 09:05 PM
My question would be this:

Do you feel there's any chance of spending the remaining money (be it $3 million or what have you) on anyone left out there that isn't a question mark? With that amount, my instinct is to say anyone Cincinnati signs/trades for is likely not going to be a sure thing.

Seems Webb could have brought by far the most potential, and $3 million is a low risk and awfully high reward.

There are performance questions and there are health questions. No guarantees to a pitcher with a bad shoulder.

I think the after Christmas bargain season is about to begin. Once Pavano, Beltre and Soriano sign, the prices will fall. $3 or $4 Million might get Johnny Damon. Surely it could get Fred Lewis plus something else. Dump a Burton and a Gomes in a deal and the team could take a $6 Million guy back. Save it for the deadline when $3 Million pays for a $9 Million talent. All better than frittering it away on a bad shoulder.

edabbs44
12-27-2010, 09:10 PM
My question would be this:

Do you feel there's any chance of spending the remaining money (be it $3 million or what have you) on anyone left out there that isn't a question mark? With that amount, my instinct is to say anyone Cincinnati signs/trades for is likely not going to be a sure thing.

Seems Webb could have brought by far the most potential, and $3 million is a low risk and awfully high reward.

That $3MM might be better used in July.

Ron Madden
12-27-2010, 09:16 PM
That $3MM might be better used in July.

I wish some other team would hurry up and sign Orlando Cabrera so Walt doesn't end up spending that $3MM on him.

Blitz Dorsey
12-28-2010, 01:53 AM
It's truly amazing that the Reds have built up so much quality pitching depth (most of it young) that they weren't even willing to give Brandon Webb more than $3 million/year. I love it. Could you imagine something like this a few years ago? Obviously Webb is coming off injury and that's why he's on the cheap. My point is that a very short time ago, the Reds would've been all over this. Especially with him being a local product.

Now? It's kind of like "We'll kick the tires, but we've already got a garage full of nice cars."

mth123
12-28-2010, 06:09 AM
It's truly amazing that the Reds have built up so much quality pitching depth (most of it young) that they weren't even willing to give Brandon Webb more than $3 million/year. I love it. Could you imagine something like this a few years ago? Obviously Webb is coming off injury and that's why he's on the cheap. My point is that a very short time ago, the Reds would've been all over this. Especially with him being a local product.

Now? It's kind of like "We'll kick the tires, but we've already got a garage full of nice cars."

The guy didn't pitch at all in 2010 and pitched all of 4 innings in 2009. Even if he was never injured, the chances of him coming back and being effective after two seasons of not pitching are pretty low. Throw in a shoulder that's been through a meat grinder and then the chances are even lower that he'll even make it through spring training, lower yet that he'll hold up beyond 40 or 50 innings, still lower that he makes it through the season as a typical batting tee type 5th starter, still even lower that he makes it through as an effective starter.

I'd say the chances of him becoming a TOR starter again are about the same as you would have of winning the Powerball...

twice...

while being hit by lightning...

during an eclipse.

Its a fools bet IMO.

kaldaniels
07-08-2011, 01:34 AM
Webb likely done for the year.

http://sports.espn.go.com/dallas/mlb/news/story?id=6742950&campaign=rss&source=MLBHeadlines