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View Full Version : Reds officially exercise options on Arroyo, Gomes, decline Cabrera, Harang's option



OnBaseMachine
11-03-2010, 02:34 PM
From Ken Rosenthal:

As expected, #Reds officially exercise Arroyo's $11M club option. GM Jocketty has said he will try to sign Arroyo to extension. #MLB

http://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal

Homer Bailey
11-03-2010, 03:05 PM
From Ken Rosenthal:

As expected, #Reds officially exercise Arroyo's $11M club option.

:thumbup:


GM Jocketty has said he will try to sign Arroyo to extension. #MLB

:scared:

osuceltic
11-03-2010, 03:21 PM
:thumbup:



:scared:

Yeah ... I think I'll trust the Executive of the Year on this one.

OnBaseMachine
11-03-2010, 03:34 PM
:thumbup:



:scared:

Agreed. I'm in favor of picking up the option but I think it's unnecessary to extend him right now.

OnBaseMachine
11-03-2010, 04:45 PM
From the Reds twitter page:

The Reds today exercised the 2011 contract options for Arroyo and Gomes but did not exercise contract options for Harang and Cabrera.

http://twitter.com/CincinnatiReds

Sigh, I hope we're not going to have to put up with another year of Gomes' awful defense and first pitch hacking. He's not a bad guy to have around as a 5th outfielder but if he's the starting left fielder entering 2011 then this offseason will have been a bad one, IMO.

Will M
11-03-2010, 04:53 PM
1) if the Reds want to use Gomes as the RH part of a platoon in left or as a bench outfielder this is probably ok (even with his poor defense). He hits LHP much better than RHP.

If the Reds five outfielders next year are Bruce-Stubbs-Gomes-Heisey-Nix then we are in deep doo doo.

One thought: maybe the team is looking to deal Heisey to a team that needs a centerfielder?

2) IMO letting Cabrera go is a good move. I suspect both Janish & Cozart are better than him at this stage of his career.

osuceltic
11-03-2010, 05:03 PM
The Gomes and Cabrera decisions are all about the amount of the option.

Gomes clearly is a value move. You may find a better value on the open market, but you would have to get lucky with someone outperforming the contract. I think everyone agrees the Reds need an upgrade in LF and that Gomes would be best used off the bench, but he isn't the worst fallback option if Walt can't find the right upgrade.

Cabrera, on the other hand, carried too big a price tag with his option. I fully expect the Reds to try to re-sign him to a one-year deal at a smaller number, and I'm fine with that. The guy was an important piece to the puzzle, and I'm not in any way ready to put all my eggs in the Janish or Cozart baskets.

My guess is LF and SS will remain unsettled well into the offseason and quite possibly into spring training.

Homer Bailey
11-03-2010, 05:04 PM
If the Reds five outfielders next year are Bruce-Stubbs-Gomes-Heisey-Nix then we are in deep doo doo.

Just like in 2010?

OnBaseMachine
11-03-2010, 05:12 PM
Just like in 2010?

I was very, very, very happy with the 2010 season. With that said, I think we need to aim higher in 2011. Instead of aiming for a playoff appearance, we should be shooting for a World Series appearance. In order to do that, the Reds need to upgrade, and IMO, left field is a good place to start.

Kc61
11-03-2010, 05:16 PM
I was very, very, very happy with the 2010 season. With that said, I think we need to aim higher in 2011. Instead of aiming for a playoff appearance, we should be shooting for a World Series appearance. In order to do that, the Reds need to upgrade, and IMO, left field is a good place to start.

Yes, but this move really isn't about who plays LF.

The move, as someone said, is a value move.

Gomes had a relatively cheap option. The Reds got the player back for next year at a salary favorable to the team.

It makes sense to exercise such an option. How the player fits in; whether he gets traded; all are future decisions.

But, again, it was sensible to lock him in at the option salary and worry about his role later on.

Homer Bailey
11-03-2010, 05:38 PM
I was very, very, very happy with the 2010 season. With that said, I think we need to aim higher in 2011. Instead of aiming for a playoff appearance, we should be shooting for a World Series appearance. In order to do that, the Reds need to upgrade, and IMO, left field is a good place to start.

Agreed with basically all of this. My point was that the Reds will not be in "deep doo-doo" with this outfield. I'm obviously hoping Gomes is not the every day starter.

edabbs44
11-03-2010, 06:03 PM
From the Reds twitter page:

The Reds today exercised the 2011 contract options for Arroyo and Gomes but did not exercise contract options for Harang and Cabrera.

http://twitter.com/CincinnatiReds

Sigh, I hope we're not going to have to put up with another year of Gomes' awful defense and first pitch hacking. He's not a bad guy to have around as a 5th outfielder but if he's the starting left fielder entering 2011 then this offseason will have been a bad one, IMO.

I think you gave similar grades to the 2009 and 2010 trade deadlines and 2009-2010 offseason. Listen to George Michael and have some faith.

kaldaniels
11-03-2010, 06:26 PM
From the Reds twitter page:

The Reds today exercised the 2011 contract options for Arroyo and Gomes but did not exercise contract options for Harang and Cabrera.

http://twitter.com/CincinnatiReds

Sigh, I hope we're not going to have to put up with another year of Gomes' awful defense and first pitch hacking. He's not a bad guy to have around as a 5th outfielder but if he's the starting left fielder entering 2011 then this offseason will have been a bad one, IMO.

So to be clear, you would not have picked up the option?

*BaseClogger*
11-03-2010, 06:31 PM
Cabrera, on the other hand, carried too big a price tag with his option. I fully expect the Reds to try to re-sign him to a one-year deal at a smaller number, and I'm fine with that. The guy was an important piece to the puzzle, and I'm not in any way ready to put all my eggs in the Janish or Cozart baskets.

They have already paid him $1M to avoid his $4M option. Just how cheap do you think he'll sign for?

thatcoolguy_22
11-03-2010, 06:37 PM
Great decision on letting Cabrera walk. I jump face first into the Janish/Cozart SS combo (assuming they can not trade for a SS). I love picking up Gomes' option, as long as he is used as a backup OF. He has power from the right side and is fairly cheap. I understand picking up Arroyo, and now the Reds have legitimate trading chips!

This is going to be a very exciting offseason. Go Reds!

MrCinatit
11-03-2010, 06:39 PM
It's good that they declined Harang's option, but I really do hate seeing it. I know he has been horrible the last couple of years, but he was such a workhorse for a few years. But, the guy clearly did not have any room with this young pitching bunch.

Brutus
11-03-2010, 08:05 PM
I think people are conflating the decision to pick up Gomes' option with the Reds declaring him their 2011 starting left fielder.

Redsfan320
11-03-2010, 08:21 PM
I think people are conflating the decision to pick up Gomes' option with the Reds declaring him their 2011 starting left fielder.

Well that is what happened last year after we re-signed him in Feb..

320

Brutus
11-03-2010, 08:32 PM
Well that is what happened last year after we re-signed him in Feb..

320

Yes, that's true. But remember the old saying... past performance doesn't guarantee future results.

Further, last year, Gomes was coming off a strong half season and was arbitration eligible. The Reds let him go without tendering a contract, until they realized they were unable to find a LF, so were able to bring Gomes back for a good price.

This year, they have him locked in to a good price, so it's better to keep him with a low amount of risk financially, and nothing precludes them from looking elsewhere for someone to fill the starting role.

It's possible Gomes winds up in left again this season. But directly, today's decision isn't indicative of whether or not he will be.

kaldaniels
11-03-2010, 08:32 PM
Well that is what happened last year after we re-signed him in Feb..

320

Walt is not an idiot. Let this play out.

Redsfan320
11-03-2010, 09:16 PM
Walt is not an idiot. Let this play out.

True. O/c, the other thing is, if he's not starting, then he's on the bench. The fact that he can only play one position really hurts his bench value too.

320

mth123
11-03-2010, 09:26 PM
True. O/c, the other thing is, if he's not starting, then he's on the bench. The fact that he can only play one position really hurts his bench value too.

320

Gomes needs a LH power bat to platoon with (somebody better than Nix). To your point, I think he should get a lot of work in spring at 1B. A decent RH bat to spell Votto would be useful and that ability would make Gomes more valuable as well.

275 ABs or so against mostly lefties with power from the bench late in a game seems pretty useful for $1.75 Million. Cheaper and better than money spent on lots of guys over the last 5 years.

But I agree, if he's the primary LF, I think it will be a failing this off-season.

Will M
11-03-2010, 10:14 PM
Just like in 2010?

IMO if the 2011 team is basically the same as the 2010 team we will fall back. Guys like Rolen, Hernandez & Cairo will be lucky to repeat their numbers. Sure improvements by Bruce & Stubbs might make up for a fallback from these guys but that will just be a bit of a wash. Add an injury ir two & viola: no playoffs. The team needs to do better than Gomes/Nix/Heisey sharing left field if they want to make the postseason.

I agree with those who say picking up Gomes was a value move on Walt's part. I disagree a bit on the thinking that Gomes has some sort of trade value. A platoon DH/LF isn't really that high on team's wish list.

One problem with making Gomes part of a platoon: basically the guy can only play LF. So the team is really hurting if they find a mirror image for the platoon partner. That would be two guys who could only play LF. So now Walt really has to find a partner for Gomes who can play some defense (say LF/RF or LF/1B or LF/CF/RF or LF/IF). It does limit his options a bit.
Note to Walt - all is forgiven if you can swing a deal for Kelly Johnson. He can play LF vs RHP then play some 2B/3B (when Gomes plays LF) giving Phillips & Rolen some time off.

Scrap Irony
11-03-2010, 10:41 PM
If the Reds platoon Brad Hawpe with Gomes, they'd likely have MVP-like offensive production, similar to Ryan Braun or Matt Holliday. I'd gladly take that as my LF platoon and forget about the poor defense that would go with it.

Of course, I also wouldn't mind if Jocketty found an 850+ OPS bat that could play good defense either. But those get expensive real quick and the Reds don't likely have one in the pipeline.

corkedbat
11-04-2010, 01:24 AM
If the Reds platoon Brad Hawpe with Gomes, they'd likely have MVP-like offensive production, similar to Ryan Braun or Matt Holliday. I'd gladly take that as my LF platoon and forget about the poor defense that would go with it.

Of course, I also wouldn't mind if Jocketty found an 850+ OPS bat that could play good defense either. But those get expensive real quick and the Reds don't likely have one in the pipeline.

I could live with Hawpe as the LH side of a platoon with Gomer. My preferrences would be:

1. Grady Sizemore
2. Nick Markakis
3. Shin-Soo Choo
4. Bobby Abreu
5. Kelly Johnson
6. Johnny Damon
7. Brad Hawpe
8. Luke Scott

Ron Madden
11-04-2010, 04:01 AM
I think we all expected these moves. I can live with it.

I just hope Walt doesn't resign Cabrera and brings in a better option than Gomes to start in LF.

nemesis
11-04-2010, 04:57 AM
I just hope Walt doesn't resign Cabrera and brings in a better option than Gomes to start in LF.


Preach brother. Cabrera is poised to have one of those sub .600 OPS seasons. Over 35? Check. Coming of a nagging injury that affects your swing? Check? Dusty refuses to replace him even if it is for the betterment of the team? Check.

Hey. Cabrera served his purpose. He was a nice veteran leader who helped stabilize the teams chemistry. But, Janish provides better Defense in all 3 areas (Glove, Range and Arm) and can put up a .650-.700 OPS's for about 3.5 Million cheaper. Cozart could possibly put up a .700+ OPS with regular playing time.

I just don't see Cabrera coming back under any circumstances.

_Sir_Charles_
11-04-2010, 11:25 AM
I was very, very, very happy with the 2010 season. With that said, I think we need to aim higher in 2011. Instead of aiming for a playoff appearance, we should be shooting for a World Series appearance. In order to do that, the Reds need to upgrade, and IMO, left field is a good place to start.

Now, be honest...just how many people think our "aim" in 2010 was a playoff appearance? I'm betting the "aim" was to get a winning record.

Strikes Out Looking
11-04-2010, 12:18 PM
Walt has said the Reds are looking for a leadoff batter. Unless they find a shortstop or catcher that bats lead off, or trade Phillips or Stubbs, I submit that LF will be the likely position filled by a lead off batter making either Gomes the fourth outfielder or one of the bodies traded for said leadoff batter. And that is my fearless prediction.

oneupper
11-04-2010, 12:33 PM
Walt has said the Reds are looking for a leadoff batter. Unless they find a shortstop or catcher that bats lead off, or trade Phillips or Stubbs, I submit that LF will be the likely position filled by a lead off batter making either Gomes the fourth outfielder or one of the bodies traded for said leadoff batter. And that is my fearless prediction.

How about a leadoff hitting OF who switch hits, has great OBP skills and can even play some decent corner infield when required?

Pete Rose is a FA and only turns 60 next April. :D

RedsManRick
11-04-2010, 01:25 PM
There really aren't any good leadoff candidates for LF or SS in free agency this side of Carl Crawford, save maybe for Johnny Damon who seems like a lock to return to Detroit. There are some interesting names, but none who are lead-off guys.

I still like the idea of Matt Joyce as a reasonable trade target, but he's not a fast guy so I'm sure he's not even on the radar.

PuffyPig
11-04-2010, 03:30 PM
I was very, very, very happy with the 2010 season. With that said, I think we need to aim higher in 2011. Instead of aiming for a playoff appearance, we should be shooting for a World Series appearance. In order to do that, the Reds need to upgrade, and IMO, left field is a good place to start.


We led the league in runs scored last year, so improvement in 2011 will likely come from our pitching staff.

I'm no fan of Gomes myself, but there may be bigger needs than LF.

Big Klu
11-04-2010, 05:18 PM
How about a leadoff hitting OF who switch hits, has great OBP skills and can even play some decent corner infield when required?

Pete Rose is a FA and only turns 60 next April. :D

Check your arithmetic. He'll be 70 in April. :)

OnBaseMachine
11-04-2010, 06:10 PM
We led the league in runs scored last year, so improvement in 2011 will likely come from our pitching staff.


Unfortunately, our offense failed to show up when they faced a good pitching staff in the playoffs. I'm more worried about the offense than the pitching staff. Don't get me wrong, I think we need to acquire a true ace (Greinke?) to solidify the rotation but I think the offense needs to be upgraded too.

oneupper
11-04-2010, 06:21 PM
Check your arithmetic. He'll be 70 in April. :)

Pete's 60 and I just turned 40. :)

edabbs44
11-04-2010, 07:32 PM
Unfortunately, our offense failed to show up when they faced a good pitching staff in the playoffs. I'm more worried about the offense than the pitching staff. Don't get me wrong, I think we need to acquire a true ace (Greinke?) to solidify the rotation but I think the offense needs to be upgraded too.

Reality is on line 1. You should pick up.

But seriously, you are talking like a NY fan. One taste of October and now Greinke is the #2 target?

PuffyPig
11-04-2010, 09:13 PM
Unfortunately, our offense failed to show up when they faced a good pitching staff in the playoffs. I'm more worried about the offense than the pitching staff.

I'd suggest that 162 games over the season is a better indication of our offense than a 3 game playoff series.

Votto had, I think, 1 hit in the playoffs. Replacing Gomes wouldn't have solved our hitting in the playoffs.

TheNext44
11-04-2010, 09:54 PM
Walt has said the Reds are looking for a leadoff batter. Unless they find a shortstop or catcher that bats lead off, or trade Phillips or Stubbs, I submit that LF will be the likely position filled by a lead off batter making either Gomes the fourth outfielder or one of the bodies traded for said leadoff batter. And that is my fearless prediction.

I would ask the Red Sox about Elsbury's price. The have a young CF coming up, can't remember his name, that they like better than Elsbury.

Redsfan320
11-04-2010, 10:28 PM
I would ask the Red Sox about Elsbury's price. The have a young CF coming up, can't remember his name, that they like better than Elsbury.

Ryan Kalish (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/k/kalisry01.shtml)

320

OnBaseMachine
11-04-2010, 10:41 PM
I'd suggest that 162 games over the season is a better indication of our offense than a 3 game playoff series.

Votto had, I think, 1 hit in the playoffs. Replacing Gomes wouldn't have solved our hitting in the playoffs.

If you think the offense is fine as is then that's cool but I highly disagree. Scott Rolen's production dropped off in the second half, and Gomes was non-existant for nearly five months, and who knows what to expect from the shortstop position. I think we need some upgrades on offense and left field stands out the most to me.

Ron Madden
11-05-2010, 04:31 AM
If you think the offense is fine as is then that's cool but I highly disagree. Scott Rolen's production dropped off in the second half, and Gomes was non-existant for nearly five months, and who knows what to expect from the shortstop position. I think we need some upgrades on offense and left field stands out the most to me.

Agreed on all points,

Give me good defense at SS and we can live with last years offense from that position.

I believe the easiest and cheapest way to improve is LF and backup third baseman.

Scrap Irony
11-05-2010, 08:16 AM
If you think the offense is fine as is then that's cool but I highly disagree. Scott Rolen's production dropped off in the second half, and Gomes was non-existant for nearly five months, and who knows what to expect from the shortstop position. I think we need some upgrades on offense and left field stands out the most to me.

Despite all that, the offense was the best in the league.

Now, given the years put forth by the catchers, the bench, and perhaps Rolen (overall), you may insist they might not match those numbers.

But pointing at guys' numbers from last season, then castigating them on last season (wherein the offense was tops in the league) is simply wrong.

I do agree (as does everyone in this thread, BTW) better options exist than what is currently on the roster. The problem many posters have is what to pay in terms of cash and prospects for that bump in production.

SirFelixCat
11-06-2010, 10:27 PM
Sign Crawford and trade for Grienke. As shocking as it sounds, it really is not that far-fetched....

fearofpopvol1
11-06-2010, 10:40 PM
Sign Crawford and trade for Grienke. As shocking as it sounds, it really is not that far-fetched....

The Reds cannot afford Crawford at 5 years/$105 million. It's just not going to happen.

kaldaniels
11-07-2010, 12:53 AM
Sign Crawford and trade for Grienke. As shocking as it sounds, it really is not that far-fetched....

I'd love to hear your path to this conclusion.

corkedbat
11-07-2010, 01:31 AM
Despite all that, the offense was the best in the league.

Now, given the years put forth by the catchers, the bench, and perhaps Rolen (overall), you may insist they might not match those numbers.

[B]But pointing at guys' numbers from last season, then castigating them on last season (wherein the offense was tops in the league) is simply wrong.
I do agree (as does everyone in this thread, BTW) better options exist than what is currently on the roster. The problem many posters have is what to pay in terms of cash and prospects for that bump in production.

Pointing out Rolen's drop in production in the second half, it is facing reality - given is age and history of back and shoulder ailments. The numbers he put up this season were great, but there is every reason to believe that those numbers will not be repeated. Like wise, looking at Goes' career, there is ample reason to think that his one monster month was an aberration.

As a GM of a surprise team like the Reds who is looking not only to maintain momentum, but build upon it, I don't believe Jocketty can afford to say, "Well, gomes and Rolen did it last year, they'll do it this year." There are too many signs that say otherwise.

He has the trading chips and probably the fiscal reousrces to add a solid bat to the Lfmix - one that can fit nicely between Voto and Bruce. If nothing else, a LH side of a platoon with Gomes.

It's not as easy and maybe a fit might not be there, but I'd be very disappoointed if he didn't even try.

BTW, while a top-notch leadoff man would be nice, I don't like the idea of giving up power in a corner spot for someone like Posednik. For one thing, it probably means putting Pullips back in the middle of the lineupand seeing him swing for the fences, losing what little gains we saw from him in plate approach we saw this past season.

Three reasons I would concentrate on on a Middle of the Order Bat over a TOR arm:

1. I believe it is much more likely that we'll see Arroyo and the rest of the young staff can improve on their numbers and the lineup equal theirs.

2. I believe an adequate OFer can be acquired mosre eaily and at less talent/cost that a TOR

3. It will be easier and more affordable to find and acquire a TOR arm at the deadline for the stretch drive playoffs than in the offseason (and that is when they are truly needed most).

edabbs44
11-08-2010, 01:27 PM
I'd love to hear your path to this conclusion.

1) Buy glue
2) Sniff glue
3) Crawford and Greinke are on the Reds

:)