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View Full Version : Miller & Morgan 'OUT' at ESPN's Sunday Night Baseball



LINEDRIVER
11-08-2010, 06:37 PM
John Popovich (Sports Director @ WCPO-TV/Channel 9 in Cincinnati) has just reported that Jon Miller and Joe Morgan will no longer be working ESPN's Sunday Night Baseball.

Personally, I'm glad to see Morgan out. He seems tired and stale.

traderumor
11-08-2010, 06:57 PM
Next step--do away with Sunday Night Baseball altogether.

hebroncougar
11-08-2010, 07:00 PM
Next step--do away with Sunday Night Baseball altogether.

They might as well. Morgan and Miller were great together, and defined Sunday Night Baseball.

Redsfan320
11-08-2010, 07:02 PM
Morgan and Miller were great together

Absolutely. Miller's an absolute joy to listen to, and Morgan was good too.

320

Stephenk29
11-08-2010, 08:06 PM
Wasn't a big Morgan fan, but he was still better than 80% of the options. What are they going to do, add Tim McCarver? nasty.

savafan
11-08-2010, 08:09 PM
Wasn't a big Morgan fan, but he was still better than 80% of the options. What are they going to do, add Tim McCarver? nasty.

As much as I dislike McCarver, I'd still rather listen to him than Joe Buck.

Unassisted
11-08-2010, 08:53 PM
No guesses as to who it will be, but I'll bet their replacements are at least 20 years younger, to appeal to younger folks.

*BaseClogger*
11-08-2010, 08:58 PM
Give me Orel Hershiser and I'm a happy man...

blumj
11-08-2010, 09:04 PM
I read somewhere that it's expected to be Hershiser and Dan Shulman, with Bobby V. if he doesn't wind up managing, might be just a guess or a rumor, though.

Eric_the_Red
11-08-2010, 09:22 PM
What's Rob Dibble up to these days?

;)

Wheelhouse
11-08-2010, 09:53 PM
Seems like a little spin is happening on the ESPN front--they're saying Morgan "will not be renewed" when Morgan clearly has been the one in recent times to have a waining interest in ESPN (see his special assistantship with the Reds.) Heaven forbid that working for ESPN is not the be-all and end-all for a talented person like Morgan. I, for one, would love to see Joe manage the Reds someday.

OnBaseMachine
11-08-2010, 10:15 PM
Jon Miller is one of the best play-by-play announcers in baseball, IMO. I love listening to him. As someone who watches Sunday Night Baseball, I'll miss listening to Miller and Morgan.

Unassisted
11-08-2010, 11:01 PM
I read somewhere that it's expected to be Hershiser and Dan Shulman, with Bobby V. if he doesn't wind up managing, might be just a guess or a rumor, though.Here, most likely... http://thebiglead.com/index.php/2010/11/08/espns-sunday-night-baseball-announcing-team-of-jon-miller-and-joe-morgan-is-no-more/

kaldaniels
11-08-2010, 11:10 PM
I had no issue with the crew. I know Morgan was a lightning rod for some, but Jon Miller is a top-5 voice in the game.

macro
11-09-2010, 12:00 AM
Hearing Jon Miller call a game has been the ONLY reason I have tuned into Sunday Night Baseball for the past ten years. Now that he's gone, I'll never watch it again unless the Reds are playing. How do you improve on Jon Miller?

KronoRed
11-09-2010, 12:17 AM
Jon Miller is a legend, sad that he's not going to be on anymore, he made the broadcasts enjoyable.

fearofpopvol1
11-09-2010, 01:09 AM
I liked Miller's voice, a lot, but I don't think he's an all time great or anything. He would regularly botch names and facts and rarely correct them. It made listening to him a bit harder. I still like him, but he's not in the elite company in my opinion. Miller's pairing with Morgan though was such a staple. It's disappointing to see that disappear.

Ron Madden
11-09-2010, 03:07 AM
I didn't always agree with some things they said but I really enjoyed the team of Miller and Morgan.

Maybe it was because the Reds were so good back then but Curt Gowdy and Joe Garagiola are my favorite National Broadcasting team of all time.

I used to get goose bumps whenever I heard Garagiola open the NBC Game Of The Week with "Welcome to Riverfront Stadium Cincinnati, Ohio. The Baseball Capital Of The World".

bucksfan2
11-09-2010, 08:34 AM
I may be one of the few but I never really cared for Miller. I liked Morgan because he was a Red but I never thought his voice lent well to calling a baseball game. I think Morgan is fantastic when he is visiting a booth, not giving color to the game.

To me Dan Schulman is the best play by player announcer in the game right now. Smooth yet humble. He doesn't think he knows more than the players who are on the field or who have played the game. If ESPN went to Joe Buck that would guarantee I would never watch a Sunday Night Baseball game.

RANDY IN INDY
11-09-2010, 08:36 AM
I liked Gowdy and Garagiola, as well, Ron. Kind of who I grew up with, although I lost a lot of respect for Gowdy in the '75 Series.

Sunday Night baseball has not appealed to me much, because the Reds never play on Sunday night. I have always enjoyed hearing Joe Morgan's insights but have never really liked Jon Miller much. Morgan was one of the smartest, instinctive baseball players that I have ever watched. He was a joy to watch, and I think his insights on the game are very good. Maybe he spends more time with the Reds now.

Chip R
11-09-2010, 09:20 AM
I'm sure Joe will be hired by the Reds to do games. Lord knows we need another broadcaster. ;)

Kind of sorry to see this.

Cedric
11-09-2010, 11:10 AM
Bobby Valentine? Are you kidding me?

He is just horrible as an announcer. Please someone get him a dugout job quick.

Jpup
11-09-2010, 11:53 AM
I'm guessing both will be joining MLB Network by the end of the week. Miller is one of the best in the game, if not the best TV guy. Morgan can get a job anywhere else he wants.

I expect ESPN to go away from baseball on Sunday Nights. If not, Shulman and Dave Campbell do a great job on the radio.

Unassisted
11-09-2010, 04:57 PM
I'm guessing both will be joining MLB Network by the end of the week. Miller is one of the best in the game, if not the best TV guy. Morgan can get a job anywhere else he wants.
Miller is the Giants TV PBP guy. He has a local gig.

Big Klu
11-09-2010, 08:18 PM
Miller is the Giants TV PBP guy. He has a local gig.

I thought Krukow and Kuiper were the Giants' TV guys. Does Miller do radio?

Reds Fanatic
11-09-2010, 08:35 PM
I thought Krukow and Kuiper were the Giants' TV guys. Does Miller do radio?

Yes Miller does radio for the Giants.

Unassisted
11-09-2010, 09:50 PM
Yes Miller does radio for the Giants.I was close. :doh: My main point was that he does have a regular gig.

VR
11-09-2010, 11:37 PM
When was the last time the Reds were on Sunday night baseball? That might be the last time I tuned it.

Jon Miller is just a splendid announcer.....have to agree on that.

RFS62
11-10-2010, 07:51 AM
I've always liked them both.

It doesn't bother me that Morgan isn't sabr-centric. He says plenty of other things which interest me.

And Miller is one of the all time greats.

Roy Tucker
11-10-2010, 07:56 AM
This is a little bit of a head-scratcher. I thought Miller and Morgan were great and do an entertaining and professional job.

Maybe ESPN is trying to get the younger crowd. Or maybe MLB Network wants to do their own Sunday night spotlight games. I dunno.

Jpup
12-04-2010, 01:00 PM
New crew is Shulman, Hershiser, and Valentine.

Tornon
12-04-2010, 02:55 PM
When was the last time the Reds were on Sunday night baseball? That might be the last time I tuned it.

Jon Miller is just a splendid announcer.....have to agree on that.

The Reds played on Sunday night in April of 2005, can't remember a time they have since then

Cedric
12-04-2010, 03:23 PM
The Reds played on Sunday night in April of 2005, can't remember a time they have since then

I remember Milton pitching against the Dodgers on a Sunday night telecast. I remember it didn't end well either, surprisingly.

Blitz Dorsey
12-04-2010, 03:30 PM
I'm so glad Jon Miller is not coming back.

A. It would have been a slap in the face to Joe if they brought Jon back and not Joe.

B. Jon is very overrated and would've been even-more insufferable after his HOF induction. I think about the only thing he does well is over-pronounce Hispanic names. Plus, he loves the song "Tis the Season" especially the line: "Don we now our gay apparel."

Ron Madden
12-04-2010, 03:35 PM
I'm so glad Jon Miller is not coming back.

A. It would have been a slap in the face to Joe if they brought Jon back and not Joe.

B. Jon is very overrated and would've been even-more insufferable after his HOF induction. I think about the only thing he does well is over-pronounce Hispanic names. Plus, he loves the song "Tis the Season" especially the line: "Don we now our gay apparel."


I think Jon Miller is a Great PBP Announcer.

RED VAN HOT
12-04-2010, 04:59 PM
Glad to see Hershiser is part of it. He provides fresh, interesting insights into the art of pitching.

remdog
12-05-2010, 10:35 AM
I'd rather listen to Jon Miller any day than listen to Marty Morose.

Rem

919191
12-21-2010, 08:50 AM
http://www.sfweekly.com/2005-07-06/news/say-it-ain-t-so-joe/

I've never seen this Morgan interview before.

RANDY IN INDY
12-21-2010, 09:34 AM
:rolleyes:

Bob Borkowski
12-21-2010, 09:56 AM
:rolleyes:

Not sure what this means, Randy...

a reaction to the writer's piece in general or to Morgan's comments?

RedsBaron
12-21-2010, 09:58 AM
http://www.sfweekly.com/2005-07-06/news/say-it-ain-t-so-joe/

I've never seen this Morgan interview before.

I've either read the interview before or similar articles about Joe Morgan and "Moneyball." One sentence in the article sums up much of Joe's broadcasting career: "Indignant, self-righteous and hopelessly ignorant."
It is ironic that those who study Sabermetrics have made an excellent argument that Morgan is the greatest second baseman of all time, yet he hates the entire Sabermetric concept.
Morgan was a terrific, and very smart, player, and one I rooted for. He has never come across as being that likeable as a person, though. His own substantial ego comes across in his autobiography and, to paraphrase Ken Griffey Senior, in "The Machine" Morgan clearly seems to be a jerk (Griffey used a stronger word, one he also used for Johnny Bench).

RANDY IN INDY
12-21-2010, 10:56 AM
Not sure what this means, Randy...

a reaction to the writer's piece in general or to Morgan's comments?

The writer's piece in general. Anyone who listens to Morgan knows his feelings about Moneyball and sabremetrics. Like it or not, right or wrong, it's his opinion, albeit a very strong one. Articles like this one, and the people who seek them do nothing but "escalate the war."

I have no problem with sabremetrics or Moneyball. People can enjoy the game however they like. GM's can run their teams however they see fit, and they will be judged on their success or lack of. While I have never agreed with all Joe Morgan's baseball strategy, or anyone else's for that matter, I really never had a problem with him as a baseball analyst. For me, he always brought a lot of insight to the broadcasts. The parts I didn't agree with would go in one ear and out the other. Only his opinion. I would much rather listen to Morgan than a statistician. That's just me. There are many ways to play a baseball game, none of them always completely right or wrong. I think what rubs many people the wrong way about statistics is the "black/white, right/wrong, absolute" way that they are usually presented. That's the way numbers are. Baseball will always have some grey areas.

Chip R
12-21-2010, 11:07 AM
The writer's piece in general. Anyone who listens to Morgan knows his feelings about Moneyball and sabremetrics. Like it or not, right or wrong, it's his opinion, albeit a very strong one. Articles like this one, and the people who seek them do nothing but "escalate the war."

I will agree that the writer's point of view was slanted against Morgan. But the problem with Morgan's opinions is that they are inaccurate. It's like saying the sky is plaid or the U.S. is governed by a king. When someone tells him different he is like a child who puts their hands over their ears and says, "La, la, la, la, la, la, I'm not listening to you!" I'm all for different opinions and Morgan would be a wonderful voice for traditionists if he didn't believe he was right just cause he's Joe Morgan.

The Voice of IH
12-21-2010, 11:11 AM
I think both announcers, past and present, do a great job. Sad to see Jon and Joe go but excited for the new generation.

Orenda
12-21-2010, 11:33 AM
I will agree that the writer's point of view was slanted against Morgan. But the problem with Morgan's opinions is that they are inaccurate. It's like saying the sky is plaid or the U.S. is governed by a king. When someone tells him different he is like a child who puts their hands over their ears and says, "La, la, la, la, la, la, I'm not listening to you!" I'm all for different opinions and Morgan would be a wonderful voice for traditionists if he didn't believe he was right just cause he's Joe Morgan.

That was my take on it for the most part. I didn't grow up in the big red machine era so maybe that's part of the reason why I never really excused Morgan as a Reds fan. It was almost as if he was making the case that I should always root for a Reds team that is doomed to failure because of unexamined traditions. The fact that he goes out of his way to rip Billy Beane as the author of the book really says it all about his knowledge on the subject.

During FS broadcasts I've noticed that Thom Brennaman has made a few veiled insults at those "moneyball people" usually after an instance when the reds where successful playing situational baseball. Of course when they bunt the runner to 2nd and the next batter strikes out to end the inning he never says, boy I wish they had that out back.

Personally I think the traditional guys can make a case for situational baseball in certain scenarios but they should be making it in limited contexts, not the "that's how the game should be played at all times" that it often comes out as.

RANDY IN INDY
12-21-2010, 12:05 PM
That was my take on it for the most part. I didn't grow up in the big red machine era so maybe that's part of the reason why I never really excused Morgan as a Reds fan. It was almost as if he was making the case that I should always root for a Reds team that is doomed to failure because of unexamined traditions. The fact that he goes out of his way to rip Billy Beane as the author of the book really says it all about his knowledge on the subject.

During FS broadcasts I've noticed that Thom Brennaman has made a few veiled insults at those "moneyball people" usually after an instance when the reds where successful playing situational baseball. Of course when they bunt the runner to 2nd and the next batter strikes out to end the inning he never says, boy I wish they had that out back.

Personally I think the traditional guys can make a case for situational baseball in certain scenarios but they should be making it in limited contexts, not the "that's how the game should be played at all times" that it often comes out as.

The same case can be made against the moneyball /sabre crowd, don't you think?

Orenda
12-21-2010, 12:17 PM
[/b]

The same case can be made against the moneyball /sabre crowd, don't you think?

I don't know, I've drank the kool aid on looking at a team's OPS to predict their offensive success. If you want to make that case, feel free to do so.

RANDY IN INDY
12-21-2010, 12:21 PM
I don't know, I've drank the kool aid on looking at a team's OPS to predict their offensive success. If you want to make that case, feel free to do so.

That was the answer I was predicting.

Orenda
12-21-2010, 12:55 PM
That was the answer I was predicting.

If your making the case that stats can't tell you everything, I wouldn't argue with that but I still think the out avoidance offensive strategy is better than the voodoo magic approach.

The game is played and managed by humans so obviously stats can't tell you if a pitcher is tipping pitches, if Joe Mauer is on 2nd relaying signals to the hitter, or if one team's manager has a bet on his team losing that night.

Sea Ray
12-21-2010, 01:41 PM
That was my take on it for the most part. I didn't grow up in the big red machine era so maybe that's part of the reason why I never really excused Morgan as a Reds fan. It was almost as if he was making the case that I should always root for a Reds team that is doomed to failure because of unexamined traditions. The fact that he goes out of his way to rip Billy Beane as the author of the book really says it all about his knowledge on the subject.

During FS broadcasts I've noticed that Thom Brennaman has made a few veiled insults at those "moneyball people" usually after an instance when the reds where successful playing situational baseball. Of course when they bunt the runner to 2nd and the next batter strikes out to end the inning he never says, boy I wish they had that out back.

Personally I think the traditional guys can make a case for situational baseball in certain scenarios but they should be making it in limited contexts, not the "that's how the game should be played at all times" that it often comes out as.



Thom (and his Dad for that matter) usually berade the Saber folks in more general ways like when they exult the virtues of guys like David Weathers, Rich Aurilia and Bronson Arroyo as they are underappreciated by the Saber crowd. But I like that you've pulled the local announcers into this. I was beginning to wonder why Joe Morgan was being singled out as I hadn't found him to be any more anti-stats than what we have everyday in this town

Sea Ray
12-21-2010, 01:44 PM
Some things can't be explained by stats...such as why Adam Dunn doesn't enhance a team's playoff chances but Orlando Cabrera does

westofyou
12-21-2010, 01:44 PM
[/b]

The same case can be made against the moneyball /sabre crowd, don't you think?

Yep, both sides are often entrenched like they are in the Battle of the Somme.

I like Peanut Butter

I like Chocolate

I like Peanut Butter in my Chocolate.

919191
12-21-2010, 05:57 PM
I agree, too. Just because Morgan was one of the best players ever, and played for the BRM doesn't mean he isn't arrogant and closed minded.

I don't mind him as a broadcaster, though. I respect all the sabrmetrics and understand their value, but I don't have much interest i the advanced ones. I don't really care if a broadcaster is sabr or traditional. It doesn't affect his ability to describe what happens on the field.

I

Brutus
12-21-2010, 06:05 PM
Yep, both sides are often entrenched like they are in the Battle of the Somme.

I like Peanut Butter

I like Chocolate

I like Peanut Butter in my Chocolate.

Sweet tooth?

:D

Brutus
12-21-2010, 06:16 PM
BTW, that article is a complete hack job. Like it or not, whether you agree with sabermetrics or don't, that kind of polarization is not doing anything to advance the culture. It's nothing but a bully pulpit.

I don't see why people are so bent out of shape that Morgan despises sabermetrics and didn't read Moneyball. Why do people care? If they disagree with him, ignore him. If they don't like his announcing, turn off the television. Why does everyone need to know why he doesn't like them? It seems like because a mainstream analyst doesn't like the metrics, it's somehow an insult to their religion.

I disagree with Morgan's reluctance to even consider these stats. But I honestly don't see why people care so much about the fact he doesn't.

GADawg
12-21-2010, 08:27 PM
What's Rob Dibble up to these days?

;)

speaking of Dibble, that morning XM show he's on is pretty good with Jim Memelo. Where did that guy come from? He'd be a guy I'd love to hear nightly with the Reds.

westofyou
12-21-2010, 08:52 PM
speaking of Dibble, that morning XM show he's on is pretty good with Jim Memelo. Where did that guy come from? He'd be a guy I'd love to hear nightly with the Reds.

I'd rather hear a bullet entering my skull than have to listen that moron emote on the greatest game ever made nightly.

Rob Dibble is to baseball announcing what Milli Vanilla was to singing.

westofyou
12-21-2010, 08:53 PM
speaking of Dibble, that morning XM show he's on is pretty good with Jim Memelo. Where did that guy come from? He'd be a guy I'd love to hear nightly with the Reds.

OK I think I read this incorrectly, you like Memlo, he's from Chicago does Blackhawk games.

VR
12-21-2010, 09:01 PM
I'd rather hear a bullet entering my skull than have to listen that moron emote on the greatest game ever made nightly.

Rob Dibble is to baseball announcing what Milli Vanilla was to singing.

girl you know it's true

GADawg
12-21-2010, 09:08 PM
OK I think I read this incorrectly, you like Memlo, he's from Chicago does Blackhawk games.

yep yep...sorry I wasn't too clear there. Memelo is pretty good I think....he usually has a very good take on things and has a pleasant voice. He has a hard time getting a work in with Dibble but he does his best.

westofyou
12-21-2010, 09:15 PM
yep yep...sorry I wasn't too clear there. Memelo is pretty good I think....he usually has a very good take on things and has a pleasant voice. He has a hard time getting a work in with Dibble but he does his best.

Yeah, good voice, I hear him do hockey a lot.

RFS62
12-24-2010, 03:10 PM
BTW, that article is a complete hack job. Like it or not, whether you agree with sabermetrics or don't, that kind of polarization is not doing anything to advance the culture. It's nothing but a bully pulpit.

I don't see why people are so bent out of shape that Morgan despises sabermetrics and didn't read Moneyball. Why do people care? If they disagree with him, ignore him. If they don't like his announcing, turn off the television. Why does everyone need to know why he doesn't like them? It seems like because a mainstream analyst doesn't like the metrics, it's somehow an insult to their religion.

I disagree with Morgan's reluctance to even consider these stats. But I honestly don't see why people care so much about the fact he doesn't.



This is the way I feel about it too. I never understood how his entire body of work and lifelong experience in the game could be so easily discounted because of his dislike for sabremetrics.

A lot of people love to run those quotes out there to ridicule him, as if it totally defines his understanding of the game.

I always loved listening to him. I don't have to agree with everything he says to love listening to his take on the game.