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OnBaseMachine
11-09-2010, 06:25 PM
From the Reds twitter page:

OF Laynce Nix (97g, .291, 4hr, 18rbi) cleared waivers, refused an outright assignment and elected free agency

http://twitter.com/CincinnatiReds

Also, a note on Balentien:

Louisville OF Wladimir Balentien (116g, .282, 25hr, 78rbi, 12sb) has been named to Topps’ Triple-A All-Star team.

http://twitter.com/CincinnatiReds

RedLegSuperStar
11-09-2010, 06:25 PM
Refused a spot on the Bats roster and elects to be a Free Agent

Per Reds Twitter

mth123
11-09-2010, 07:40 PM
I'd warmed up to the idea of keeping Nix and his lefty bat around. I think he'd make a good caddy for the RH Hitting Stubbs against RHP when Stubbs is in a funk. With Dickerson gone, the Reds don't really have anyone for that job. I wonder if Edmonds might be considering giving it another go.

Rojo
11-09-2010, 07:56 PM
Good. Didn't need him.

UKFlounder
11-09-2010, 07:58 PM
He wasn't bad as a 5th outfielder & LH bat when healthy, but there should be others out there who can fill that role


Good. Didn't need him.

RedLegSuperStar
11-09-2010, 09:02 PM
Jonny Gomes

Scrap Irony
11-09-2010, 09:25 PM
Nix has been a great addition for two years. He really produced for the Reds.

HokieRed
11-09-2010, 09:27 PM
Nix has been a great addition for two years. He really produced for the Reds.

Agree. Very undervalued on RZ.

Will M
11-09-2010, 09:42 PM
Nix has been a great addition for two years. He really produced for the Reds.


Agree. Very undervalued on RZ.

Agree.

He has been worth 1.1 & 1.5 WAR in 2009 & 2010. Yet he has made ~$1M total. These were great deals for the Reds. They paid a guy replacement level salary & got above replacement level production. Lance has to think he can get a team to pay him more than the minimum in 2011. Fangraphs wrote a blurb a while back stating that they thought the value of WAR would be higher in 2011 (in dollars). If so then a guy who can be a bench player & net 1.5 WAR won't be signing for the minimum. Walt is going to have to find some guys to replicate the cheap but effective bench production we got last year from guys like Nix & Cairo. Or some AAA guys like Valaika or Frazier are going to have to arrive. A team with the Reds payroll can't afford an expensive bench nor can it afford a nonproductive one.

JaxRed
11-09-2010, 09:43 PM
Would have no problem with him coming back after he tests the market.

nemesis
11-10-2010, 03:11 AM
Which is very likely to happen. This is the same song and dance they did last year. I know that he is one of the most liked guys in the Clubhouse and I am all for a guy who as a 5th OF OPS'd .805 in 2010 and .767 in 2009 while only committing 2 E's. (Positive UZR in all 3 spots over in 101 Starts in the last 2 years)

OPS'd 1.019 in 33 games after the All Star break.

That combined is worth about 800 K to 1.2 mil to me. Someone will pay it (Atlanta, Houston, LAA, LAD, Boston) I'd like it to be the Reds.

Ron Madden
11-10-2010, 03:39 AM
I could live with Nix coming back in his current role, IF the price is RIGHT.

IMHO, his production should not be that hard to replace.

mth123
11-10-2010, 05:28 AM
I could live with Nix coming back in his current role, IF the price is RIGHT.

IMHO, his production should not be that hard to replace.

A lefty with pop, who has a knack for getting a hit off the bench and can play enough defense to play all three spots may not be as easy to find as we think. I was among those who thought having Laynce Nix on the team was a AAAA move, but I've grown to appreciate his combination of skills. If Jim Edmonds could still play, I probably wouldn't miss Nix, but I have real doubts he has the desire or the health. Rick Ankiel is a name with ties to Walt who has similar skillls, but I wonder if he'll come as cheaply. I wonder if Felix Perez could play that role at some point in 2011. I'm not sure he's ready yet.

Redsfan320
11-10-2010, 07:07 AM
Just from visual inspection, I think his D is underrated. He can play all 3 OF spots, and play them well, IMO.

After 09, I was ready for him to go, but after this year... I really like him in a 5th OF role.

320

JaxRed
11-10-2010, 07:50 AM
If he did go elsewhere, we might see Dorn.

Rojo
11-10-2010, 11:34 AM
Nix has lifetime OBP of .286. I don't want an out-machine on my bench.

kaldaniels
11-10-2010, 11:55 AM
Nix has lifetime OBP of .286. I don't want an out-machine on my bench.

Oh c'mon.

He's had an OPS of around a .780 clip the past 2 seasons. Thats a decent guy for the bench.

Don't pretend that his 2003-2005 stats are relevant today...they really aren't. I'm not crying that he is going the FA route...but I don't like misleading numbers.

Rojo
11-10-2010, 01:28 PM
Don't pretend that his 2003-2005 stats are relevant today...they really aren't.

So all that matters is last year, when he DL'd at the right time? Why are the low BA/low OBA 1112 PA's prior to 2010 unimportant?

Maybe he turned a corner last year at 29, maybe. And I guess for the right amount of money you take a flier. But the odds are against it and roster spots are precious.

RichRed
11-10-2010, 01:32 PM
Thread title opportunity missed:

"Laynce Nixes Outright Assignment"

camisadelgolf
11-10-2010, 01:40 PM
Laynce Nix Not Given Chaynce for Arbitration

IslandRed
11-10-2010, 02:01 PM
So all that matters is last year, when he DL'd at the right time? Why are the low BA/low OBA 1112 PA's prior to 2010 unimportant?

Maybe he turned a corner last year at 29, maybe. And I guess for the right amount of money you take a flier. But the odds are against it and roster spots are precious.

Well, it's not unreasonable to think maybe the guy's learned something by age 29 he didn't know at age 24... like, how to come off the bench and be ready to hit. But no, I wouldn't expect another .350 OBP from him.

At the same time, we're talking about the intersection of cheap bench bats and fifth outfielders. Pretty much by definition, that pool excludes veteran players without a major flaw of some kind. So it's either go with a kid to be the fifth outfielder (and even then, the really good prospects usually don't get stuck in the fifth-outfielder role), or find a vet whose mix of strengths and flaws best fit what we need from that roster spot. Which may or may not be Nix, hard to say at this point.

Sea Ray
11-10-2010, 02:05 PM
The issue right with Nix isn't money. It's a roster spot. Is it worth exposing a young player to the Rule 5 draft in order to give Nix a major league contract? My guess is no

kaldaniels
11-10-2010, 02:07 PM
So all that matters is last year, when he DL'd at the right time? Why are the low BA/low OBA 1112 PA's prior to 2010 unimportant?

Maybe he turned a corner last year at 29, maybe. And I guess for the right amount of money you take a flier. But the odds are against it and roster spots are precious.

What matters to me is that his 2009 and 2010 were numbers that I'd be happy to have in my bench OF spot. I objected to the out-machine remark and the statement that you didn't want him coming off the bench (something I think he is perfectly suited for). Seemed a bit extreme.

RedsManRick
11-10-2010, 02:22 PM
With Stubbs, Bruce, and Heisey around and with Sappelt close, I don't think the extra defense was really needed. At that point we're looking at his bat and while the power is nice, the OBP isn't. If we're looking at the 5th OF job, I'd rather see a young, minimum salary guy like Dorn or Fransisco take the job.

Will M
11-10-2010, 02:37 PM
With Stubbs, Bruce, and Heisey around and with Sappelt close, I don't think the extra defense was really needed. At that point we're looking at his bat and while the power is nice, the OBP isn't. If we're looking at the 5th OF job, I'd rather see a young, minimum salary guy like Dorn or Fransisco take the job.

1) Since we already have a guy who is a DH as one of our 5 outfield spots I think the last two spots need to go to guys who can play defense & can play at least one other spot on the field (ie RF, 1B).

2) Can Francisco even play left?

Also I believe Dorn's defense is suspect.

3) bringing back Gomes is an odd move. I'd have preferred Nix & Heisey on the bench & a real starter in LF. Now if we get a real starter in LF we would have Gomes & Heisey on the bench (both hit RH). Maybe we get a big LH bat who can platoon in LF with Gomes & is a guy who could get 450 PAs and produce. (Nix is likely NOT that guy. Nix seems a great 5th outfielder but would get his weaknesses exposed if he played more.) Then Heisey sticks around as the last outfielder.

4) So I am all for bringing Nix back as the 5th outfielder if we went out & got a starter (say Dejesus for example). even then it would mean moving either Gomes or Heisey. that way our bench would have a strong RH & a strong LH bat.

If we got a LH platoon bat to pair with Gomes then I would just keep Heisey as the last outfielder

RedsManRick
11-10-2010, 03:09 PM
1) Since we already have a guy who is a DH as one of our 5 outfield spots I think the last two spots need to go to guys who can play defense & can play at least one other spot on the field (ie RF, 1B).

Stubbs and Bruce will never need a defensive caddy. If and when they are hurt, Heisey can start and/or we can call somebody up to replace them who is better defensively.



2) Can Francisco even play left?

Also I believe Dorn's defense is suspect.

Both are suspect defenders. But as I mentioned in #1, Heisey already provides a glove off the bench. The #5 OFs primary job will be to pinch hit.



3) bringing back Gomes is an odd move. I'd have preferred Nix & Heisey on the bench & a real starter in LF. Now if we get a real starter in LF we would have Gomes & Heisey on the bench (both hit RH). Maybe we get a big LH bat who can platoon in LF with Gomes & is a guy who could get 450 PAs and produce. (Nix is likely NOT that guy. Nix seems a great 5th outfielder but would get his weaknesses exposed if he played more.) Then Heisey sticks around as the last outfielder.

I agree. But that ship has sailed.



4) So I am all for bringing Nix back as the 5th outfielder if we went out & got a starter (say Dejesus for example). even then it would mean moving either Gomes or Heisey. that way our bench would have a strong RH & a strong LH bat.

If we got a LH platoon bat to pair with Gomes then I would just keep Heisey as the last outfielder

If we go get a starter and then move Gomes or Heisey, sure Nix would fit. But that remains to be seen.

Will M
11-10-2010, 03:18 PM
Stubbs and Bruce will never need a defensive caddy. If and when they are hurt, Heisey can start and/or we can call somebody up to replace them who is better defensively.



Both are suspect defenders. But as I mentioned in #1, Heisey already provides a glove off the bench. The #5 OFs primary job will be to pinch hit.



I agree. But that ship has sailed.



If we go get a starter and then move Gomes or Heisey, sure Nix would fit. But that remains to be seen.

I disagree with the idea that a 5th outfielder types main job is to pinch hit.
It could be so on a team with 3 solid starters. A 4th OF guy plays when one of them needs a day off & the 5th OF type only pinch hits. IF the Reds got a solid everyday guy for LF then Hesiey could be the 4th OF & Gomes could be the 5th OF and mainly pinch hit. (note that even in this situation i would prefer that the two bench outfielder don't both hit right handed).

However, if the team is planning on using Gomes as more than just a pinch hitter then I don't want a 2nd defensively challenged outfielder. I think it would limit the teams options too much. Lets say Dorn/Francisco is the last spot. When Bruce or Stubbs is banged up then Heisey starts. But then you have no one to replace defesnively Gomes late in close games. IMO part of a good bench is not just the offense, defense & flexibility matter as well.

OnBaseMachine
11-10-2010, 03:48 PM
In other news, Corky Miller is back. I'm glad to see him remain in the Reds organization. I hope he lands a coaching job with the Reds after his playing career is over.

C Corky Miller cleared waivers, refused outright, elected free agency and then was re-signed to minor league contract with ST invite.

http://twitter.com/CincinnatiReds

Rojo
11-10-2010, 04:14 PM
Well, it's not unreasonable to think maybe the guy's learned something by age 29 he didn't know at age 24... like, how to come off the bench and be ready to hit. But no, I wouldn't expect another .350 OBP from him.

He had an .682 OPS as pinch-hitter last year with one home run.

Are we really worried about Nyx getting away? His contributions shouldn't be hard to replace.

By releasing him we free up a roster spot (and a little money) to add a kid with upside or a player with far more utitlity -- like a real platoon-partner for Gomes or a pinch-hitter who can find first base.