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BearcatShane
11-15-2010, 04:10 PM
The season starts tonight vs Mt. Saint Marrys at the Shoe. UC also has quietly put together a solid recruiting class for next year. Lets hope the Cats come together and have a good year. Lets get W number 1 tonight.

WMR
11-15-2010, 04:16 PM
Is there any heat on Mick Cronin's seat right now?

bucksfan2
11-15-2010, 04:20 PM
Is there any heat on Mick Cronin's seat right now?

Mick's seat is on fire. IMO if he doesn't make the tournament this year he is gone.

Cedric
11-15-2010, 04:22 PM
Is there any heat on Mick Cronin's seat right now?

Dead broke athletic department and absolutely no fan base left.

Basically nobody cares and the department doesn't have the financial ability to fire Mick. It's really sad and depressing.

The team on the court should be absolutely scary. The least amount of talent of any Bearcat team since the Yates era. Hopefully they lose enough to get Mick fired and they land another miracle Huggins type hire.

BearcatShane
11-15-2010, 04:35 PM
I like Mick's recruiting class so much next year that I truly want him to stay. I know some will say well he won't be able to coach them up but I really think it will be his best class. His seat is warm, but not on fire. It would take a 13-17 to get him canned in my opinion.

WMR
11-15-2010, 04:50 PM
I like Mick's recruiting class so much next year that I truly want him to stay. I know some will say well he won't be able to coach them up but I really think it will be his best class. His seat is warm, but not on fire. It would take a 13-17 to get him canned in my opinion.

What do you like in particular about this class? http://rivals.yahoo.com/basketballrecruiting/basketball/recruiting/commitments/2011/cincinnati-98;_ylt=ApQ_9juVCg_H9O28AK46rbnVO5B4

The top ranked player is #123 according to Rivals.

How could this be his best class at UC? Hell, Stephenson by himself made last year's class better than 2011.

BearcatShane
11-15-2010, 05:14 PM
What do you like in particular about this class? http://rivals.yahoo.com/basketballrecruiting/basketball/recruiting/commitments/2011/cincinnati-98;_ylt=ApQ_9juVCg_H9O28AK46rbnVO5B4

The top ranked player is #123 according to Rivals.

How could this be his best class at UC? Hell, Stephenson by himself made last year's class better than 2011.

It won't be the highest rated but I gurantee you it will the the best. They have 3 top 150 playes. Stephenson was highly rated but did he truly live up to the hype. These 5 commitments will all be good solid four year players.

BearcatShane
11-15-2010, 05:17 PM
Just look at ESPN's headline for there basketball recruiting page..

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/recruiting/index

paintmered
11-15-2010, 09:05 PM
Glad to see UC can still nearly blow a 19 point lead.

Cats win, I guess. 69-59.

SeeinRed
11-16-2010, 10:50 AM
The team on the court should be absolutely scary. The least amount of talent of any Bearcat team since the Yates era. Hopefully they lose enough to get Mick fired and they land another miracle Huggins type hire.


If you are talking about Cronin's 5 years here I might agree with the talent level being as bad as it has been in a long time. If you are talking about this years team in particular that is just hyperbole. Mick's first couple teams were much more lacking in talent. Mick might not have a player like Stephenson who can be "the guy" but he has a much better overall team than he has had since being at UC IMO. His teams have improved every year and I expect that to continue this year.

As for the game last night, the Bearcats looked as though they expected The Mount to roll over for them. They looked sloppy and uninspired for almost the whole game. I certainly hope UC can put up a better effort than that in the future.

bucksfan2
11-16-2010, 11:05 AM
Early season games are always interesting. You see a lot of times good teams losing to lesser competition. Teams are getting their game legs under then and trying to figure each other out. I don't put too much stock in early season games for that reason.

As for Cronin I just don't like him as a game coach. It is early in the season but he continues to think he has a deep bench. Most good teams settle on 7 players and play the rest on a as need basis. Its good to see that Thomas, Bishop, and Davis continue to think that they are 3 point shooters. Its only one game and you will see some improvement but man this could be a long season.

Reds4Life
11-16-2010, 11:17 AM
I will give Cronin credit, he finally put together a solid recruiting class for next year. Hiring Darren Savino helped quite a bit with getting some of those guys.

As for the game, all his teams have looked sloopy, they never run an organized offense. It's always spray and pray, because they don't have any great shooters. His seat is pretty warm at this point, if they don't make the tournament, he could very well be gone.

Boss-Hog
11-16-2010, 11:23 AM
I don't mean to pour cold water on what looks to be a pretty good recruiting class, but UC's Class of 2007 (this year's seniors) was similarly ranked pretty highly, as well, coming in. That class included Rashad Bishop, Biggie McClain, Larry Davis, Alvin Mitchell, Jason Henry (who never played at UC) and Kenny Belton. Look no further than RedsZone (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1311359) if you don't believe me. Rankings mean very little if those players don't develop, as was the case with this year's senior class.

Boston Red
11-16-2010, 12:14 PM
The announced crowd of 4,000 can't really bode well for Cronin's job security.

Reds4Life
11-16-2010, 01:20 PM
The announced crowd of 4,000 can't really bode well for Cronin's job security.

It's going to be bad, the OOC schedule this year is a complete joke. The only 2 teams they play that are worth while are Xavier and Dayton, the rest are a bunch of cupcakes nobody has ever heard of. That, plus the fact that the interest in UC basketball has declined a great deal.

Was done to pad the win column, probably to help save Cronin's job. The Big East conference RPI will help them a lot, but if it's a close decision on selection Sunday, I can't see the powers that be looking very favorably on the garbage OOC schedule and RPI.

paintmered
11-16-2010, 09:22 PM
I don't mean to pour cold water on what looks to be a pretty good recruiting class, but UC's Class of 2007 (this year's seniors) was similarly ranked pretty highly, as well, coming in. That class included Rashad Bishop, Biggie McClain, Larry Davis, Alvin Mitchell, Jason Henry (who never played at UC) and Kenny Belton. Look no further than RedsZone (http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?p=1311359) if you don't believe me. Rankings mean very little if those players don't develop, as was the case with this year's senior class.

Indeed, it was a highly rated class. Here's how they've turned out.

Rashad Bishop - probably the best out of the class. Underperformed at times, dismissed from the team and reinstated for this year.

Biggie McClain - a project whose development suffered from injuries. At least he's no longer a stick.

Larry Davis - a complete failure of a player. Can't score, can't guard. I don't know how he gets as minutes as he does. Yet, Cronin keeps throwing him in there to disastrous results.

Alvin Mitchell - supposedly the most talented of the recruiting class. The question with him at the time was not if he was going to be good, but for how many years could UC keep him around. He turned out to be lazy and a malcontent, and soon found himself off the team for good.

Jason Henry - never played (as you mention) although I forget why. I think Darnel Wilks took his scholarship instead of going to prep school.

Kenny Belton - chronic back injuries ended his career. He still has his scholarship due to the medical issues but is no longer with the team.

So yeah, the class has been a total flop for many reasons. There was reason to be excited about the class at the time, but sometimes kids don't pan out...sometimes all at once.

bucksfan2
11-17-2010, 08:30 AM
Rashad Bishop has been kicked off the team a couple of times I believe. Could be a talented role player but he doesn't realize that. He isn't a three point shooter, which he wants to be, more of a slasher and defender.

Larry Davis was supposed to be an outside shooter. He must shoot lights outs in practice because Mick continues to go to him. He is a disaster on the court.

McClain just never developed. I saw him at the UC rec center on night and he moved around like an 80 year old man.

Kenny Belton had spinal cord issues. I thought he could develop into a very good player over 4 years. He had the body and strength to do so. Unfortunately for him you don't mess with spinal cord issues.

Reds4Life
11-17-2010, 10:54 AM
I don't understand why Davis is still on the team, as you both said, he's awful. He isn't a D1 level player, or even bench filler. He belongs at an NAIA school.

Boston Red
11-27-2010, 10:43 PM
I assume all the UC posters are still downtown celebrating their 68-34 thumping of Dayton. That's the only reason I can think of that this thread hasn't been bumped back to the top. That's a pretty shocking outcome (to put it mildly).

reds1869
11-27-2010, 11:13 PM
I assume all the UC posters are still downtown celebrating their 68-34 thumping of Dayton. That's the only reason I can think of that this thread hasn't been bumped back to the top. That's a pretty shocking outcome (to put it mildly).

I live right next to the arena. The UD fans were in a daze which is always a pleasant thing for a Xavier fan. A really embarrassing result for the Flyers. But what else would you expect when UD was playing a game in our fair city. Jimmy Carter says hello! :wave:

Of course, I was too busy having a 3OT heart attack to enjoy their pain at the time. Congrats to the Cats on a nice win. You look to have a good team this year and I can't wait for the Shootout.

jimbo
11-28-2010, 11:16 AM
But what else would you expect when UD was playing a game in our fair city. Jimmy Carter says hello! :wave:


UC 66
UD 81

3/22/2010 - Cincinnati, OH

Just saying. The whole Jimmy Carter thing doesn't fly anymore with UC. Actually, UD has beaten UC 2 out of the last 3 in Cincinnati I think, or something close to that. Although with xavier it's a different story. :(

As a Flyer fan, this game was humbling, but I'm not jumping off any cliffs. This team is young and the season is young. It still counts as one loss and IMO, there is too much talent on this team for them not to bounce back and have a good season.

Boston Red
11-28-2010, 12:58 PM
Dayton has also beaten Kentucky and Louisville in Cincinnati since Jimmy Carter left office.

reds1869
11-28-2010, 03:32 PM
Dayton has also beaten Kentucky and Louisville in Cincinnati since Jimmy Carter left office.

Shhh...don't ruin our fun! ;)

SeeinRed
11-29-2010, 08:58 PM
I've spent the past couple days trying to figure out what was different from the team the played Dayton and the team I've been used to seeing the past couple years at UC. The first thing that popped into my mind is passion. UC actually had energy and desire that I haven't seen from them in a while and it started from the tip. Hopefully it is something that sticks around for the season, but it was nice to see for once even if it doesn't show again.

You obviously can't read too much into one game early in the season, but UC seems like a better TEAM this year. Last year was about Lance and Deonta. The best part about the win was the team was able to dominate without Gates. Hopefully they don't have to do that again, but it was nice to see. UC won't get much of a test for a little while again, but they are in a nice position going into the meat of the schedule if they keep it going.

paintmered
12-05-2010, 07:40 PM
7-0 against inferior competition. But still, I really like what I'm seeing out of the freshmen and on the defense end of the court.

I do wish UC would have scheduled at least one more quality non-conference opponent this year since that plays heavily to the committee.

Boston Red
12-05-2010, 11:21 PM
I do wish UC would have scheduled at least one more quality non-conference opponent this year since that plays heavily to the committee.

The fact that Xavier apparently stinks is a bad break for UC in the schedule quality department.

I'm guessing you UC fans will be able to get over your disappointment on that score.

NorrisHopper30
12-06-2010, 01:38 AM
The Cats are back. We may not be a top 10 or 15 team this year, but this team plays hard and with some swagger just like the old Bearcats.

joshnky
12-06-2010, 12:29 PM
The Cats are back. We may not be a top 10 or 15 team this year, but this team plays hard and with some swagger just like the old Bearcats.

You might want to play someone decent before you make this proclamation.

Boss-Hog
12-06-2010, 01:51 PM
I defintely agree with this...that being said, while I'm not ready to say "they're back", I'm encouraged by what I've seen so far from this team. Even if it is against inferior competition, they look much better than last year's team did for the most part that was more talented "on paper". That certainly did not work out very well, as they did not get any better after Maui, where they peaked.


You might want to play someone decent before you make this proclamation.

BearcatShane
12-07-2010, 02:35 AM
They do hustle and play with swagger. No doubt about that. And UC's three biggest non conference games are Dayton, Oklahoma and Xavier and they are all having really down years so far so that hurts. But I'll take the wins honestly. Plenty of opportunities to get quality wins in league play.

NorrisHopper30
12-07-2010, 03:29 AM
You might want to play someone decent before you make this proclamation.

Anyone who is watching the games realizes that the Bearcats are playing like the old Bearcats and everyone knows teams that play hard and play with good energy will be solid and most likely make the tournament. Schedule has nothing to do with how hard this Bearcats team is playing and how solid they look.

Redlegs23
12-09-2010, 09:21 AM
7-0 against inferior competition. But still, I really like what I'm seeing out of the freshmen and on the defense end of the court.

I do wish UC would have scheduled at least one more quality non-conference opponent this year since that plays heavily to the committee.

They will have 9-14 chances to get quality wins once Big East play starts. A lot more chances than teams from other conferences get. Having a tough non-conference schedule isn't a big deal for Big East teams. I'm not too concerned with the schedule. Also, when the games were scheduled Xavier was looking like tough tournament team and Dayton was supposed to be pretty dang good since they returned most of their talent from the NIT champion team.

BearcatShane
12-11-2010, 03:24 PM
Maybe one of the top 3 biggest tests of the year tonight as Utah Valley State invades the Shoe. 8:00 PM. I'll be there to see if the Cats can pull it out!

Cedric
12-11-2010, 04:25 PM
They do hustle and play with swagger. No doubt about that. And UC's three biggest non conference games are Dayton, Oklahoma and Xavier and they are all having really down years so far so that hurts. But I'll take the wins honestly. Plenty of opportunities to get quality wins in league play.

That's just pathetic, IMO. Dayton and Oklahoma are two miserable/terrible/horrific teams.

There isn't one thing that can be learned from this non conference schedule. UC will have to win at least 10 conference games to get in with that schedule.

Brutus
12-11-2010, 04:41 PM
Anyone who is watching the games realizes that the Bearcats are playing like the old Bearcats and everyone knows teams that play hard and play with good energy will be solid and most likely make the tournament. Schedule has nothing to do with how hard this Bearcats team is playing and how solid they look.

This team won't make the tournament. I'll make a friendly wager on that, if you want. The teams they've played thus far are a combined 25-37. None of these teams are going to be in the NCAA Tournament, outside of one of them pulling off a big upset in their conference tournament.

It's true there are chances for big wins in the Big East, but there's also the chance for a ton of losses.

Now, I'll say this: I like their passing. They have a lot of guys that move the ball around well. As a team, they're assisting on over 2/3 of their made field goals, which is excellent. And this team plays solid defense. I think Kilpatrick & Dixon are solid players, with Yancy improving a lot this year.

Problem is, they simply don't have the kind of scoring and firepower to beat the better teams. I just don't see it. They're better, but they're not an NCAA Tournament team.

NorrisHopper30
12-11-2010, 05:07 PM
This team won't make the tournament. I'll make a friendly wager on that, if you want. The teams they've played thus far are a combined 25-37. None of these teams are going to be in the NCAA Tournament, outside of one of them pulling off a big upset in their conference tournament.

It's true there are chances for big wins in the Big East, but there's also the chance for a ton of losses.

Now, I'll say this: I like their passing. They have a lot of guys that move the ball around well. As a team, they're assisting on over 2/3 of their made field goals, which is excellent. And this team plays solid defense. I think Kilpatrick & Dixon are solid players, with Yancy improving a lot this year.

Problem is, they simply don't have the kind of scoring and firepower to beat the better teams. I just don't see it. They're better, but they're not an NCAA Tournament team.Alright, I'll make a friendly wager. I just think the easy schedule is a benefit to a team like this..to build confidence and to not get worn out before Big East play. They confidence and teamwork is something I haven't seen with any Cronin team before and I love it.

Brutus
12-11-2010, 05:09 PM
Alright, I'll make a friendly wager. I just think the easy schedule is a benefit to a team like this..to build confidence and to not get worn out before Big East play. They confidence and teamwork is something I haven't seen with any Cronin team before and I love it.

Perhaps some sort of signature bet for a week?

Reds
12-11-2010, 09:28 PM
70-47 with 12:28 left, 3 turnovers for the Bearcats on an impressive scoring evening. I'm excited to see us play X and Big East boys.

BearcatShane
12-12-2010, 03:33 AM
Well there is a good chance they start out 15-0. Need at least 10 wins in Big East play. They do get to play Depaul Twice.

NorrisHopper30
12-12-2010, 04:54 AM
Perhaps some sort of signature bet for a week?

How about if I lose mine says something about how sweet ohio state is (which they aren't) and if you lose yours says something about how sweet UC is

SeeinRed
12-15-2010, 11:18 AM
I wasn't home for the game, so I DVR'd it and just finished watching it. I can't say the Bearcats have proven anything yet, but they just feel like a much different team this year. Sure, the competition has been pitiful, but in the past I feel like the Bearcats would've just played well enough to win by 10 against some of the same competition.

There is a lot to like about this team. They score in many different ways and all players are involved. Their half court defense can eat you up and they can press with a lot of intensity. Granted, things will change as they get into Big East play, but this team has a lot of confidence. I really started to see that in the Dayton game and it has really grown ever since. Some call it swagger, but I don't think you can call it that until they show it against tougher competition. Right now its just confidence.

Individually, Gates seems to finally put effort into all phases of the game and Bishop has been rock solid. Wright is looking like an actual PG and Dixon is stroking the ball. Also, is it just me, or is Justin Jackson becoming one of the most enjoyable players to watch at UC in what seems like a long time. He may not score 20 points, but he brings energy to the floor that is quite refreshing. Wilks can bring that same energy, but at times just runs around like a chicken with its head cut off. Both are very good passers IMO, and really the team as a whole distributes the ball very well.

I'm very optimistic to say the least, but I'm not saying the Bearcats are going to finish in the top 5 of the BE. I think you will see a very solid 20+ win season with an at large selection to the NCAA tournament. They've been close the last two seasons, I think this is the year the get over the hump and back into the tourney.

Next up, Oklahoma who isn't as strong as the Bearcats would have thought when they scheduled the game. It will still be a decent test as it is in Oklahoma City meaning it will be pretty much the same as a road game though it is at a "neutral site." Although it will not be the end all be all argument for how good UC really is, it will help gauge the team a little more. The true answer will come in the BE, and I personally don't care about rankings or anyone who doesn't think UC is a good team yet. I can't blame them. Even I have questions.

SeeinRed
12-19-2010, 05:47 PM
I'm suprised there is so little intrest in the Bearcats still. I know they aren't going to be the talk of the town yet, but you'd think more fans would be excited about being 10-0 even with the competition they've played. Yesterday was a pretty good test for the Cats IMO. They played pretty poorly for most of the game, and were also on the road (for all intents and purposes). Oklahoma isn't going to set the world on fire this year, but they aren't going to just roll over either. It was by far the worst game as far as offensive execution that they've played this year and they were still able to win. Last year, the Cats lose that game IMO.

UC isn't going to be a threat for the National Title this year, or the BE title. They are however a much better team than last year's version, however. These small tests are the only thing UC fans have to try and measure UC with for a little while, and Miami could be a tough game. None of them are telling us much more that UC isn't losing games they should win so far, and that is a good first step.

NorrisHopper30
12-20-2010, 01:35 AM
Well there is a good chance they start out 15-0. Need at least 10 wins in Big East play. They do get to play Depaul Twice.

If they start out 15-0 I think they'll be fine with 8-9 wins as well.

BearcatShane
12-20-2010, 02:06 AM
If they start out 15-0 I think they'll be fine with 8-9 wins as well.

If they go 8-10 in the Big East they would be 21-10 going to New York for the Big East Tournament. With there out of conference schedule I really don't think that will get them in the NCAA Tournament unless they win 2-3 games in New York then they would probably be squarely on the bubble. Now, if they win 9 or more Big East games I think they'll be fine.

*Do not underestimate the NCAA Tournament expanding by 3 teams this year, if UC goes 9-9 in Big East play they could easily be one of those 3 teams that sneak in this year that would of barely missed in years past. I'm excited to see what happens. Go Cats!

NorrisHopper30
12-20-2010, 08:19 AM
If they go 8-10 in the Big East they would be 21-10 going to New York for the Big East Tournament. With there out of conference schedule I really don't think that will get them in the NCAA Tournament unless they win 2-3 games in New York then they would probably be squarely on the bubble. Now, if they win 9 or more Big East games I think they'll be fine.

*Do not underestimate the NCAA Tournament expanding by 3 teams this year, if UC goes 9-9 in Big East play they could easily be one of those 3 teams that sneak in this year that would of barely missed in years past. I'm excited to see what happens. Go Cats!

I had a brain fart and didn't realize 15-0 was not all ooc opponents but it included seton hall and depaul :D. UC needs 23 wins IMO, so when I said 8 I meant 15+8...so I suppose you are spot on with 10 Big East wins.

Hoosier Red
12-20-2010, 04:14 PM
That's just pathetic, IMO. Dayton and Oklahoma are two miserable/terrible/horrific teams.

There isn't one thing that can be learned from this non conference schedule. UC will have to win at least 10 conference games to get in with that schedule.

Well there's the advantage of having dominated the inferior competition. As I said about Indiana's (easier) schedule, it's not as though playing these terrible teams make them any worse. If they played teams more challenging, than they'd have fewer OOC wins, and they'd need to win more Big East games anyway.
If you say they have to win 10 Big East games to get in, that's a reasonable guess, that means they win 23 games?
If they instead played two or three more difficult teams and lost, would a 8 and 10 Big East Record with only 20 wins and no difficult out of conference wins?

Basically, the out of conference schedule doesn't really matter. In order to be considered, they'll have to get enough Big East wins that one or two is sure to be a big scalp to hang on the wall.

Scrap Irony
12-20-2010, 06:15 PM
That's a good point as to making the tournament, Hoosier, and one that's changed over the past five years. The Selection Committee really rewards conference wins; it doesn't really matter what you do before that point.

SeeinRed
12-21-2010, 01:04 PM
Just a heads up for anyone wanting to watch tonights game, it will be live on ESPN3.com.

Sea Ray
12-21-2010, 01:45 PM
Just a heads up for anyone wanting to watch tonights game, it will be live on ESPN3.com.

Is that it?

SeeinRed
12-21-2010, 01:51 PM
Is that it?


It is also on Sportstime Ohio which isn't available on TWC in southwest Ohio. It is available on Dish and Directv I believe though I'm not sure in what parts of Ohio. It is mostly a Cleveland area sports station if I understand correctly, but they also cover the MAC.

Sea Ray
12-21-2010, 01:53 PM
Thanks for the heads up. I just assumed it'd be on some TV here in SW Ohio. I do get ESPN3 now that TWC has put it up but I much prefer to watch it on TV

SeeinRed
12-21-2010, 02:16 PM
Thanks for the heads up. I just assumed it'd be on some TV here in SW Ohio. I do get ESPN3 now that TWC has put it up but I much prefer to watch it on TV

I know the feeling. It's become the harsh reality of where UC has been in the last few years. TV coverage is lacking, and HD coverage even more so. Its really dissapointing that FSO doesn't cover games in HD. I understand that it isn't worth their effort right now with viewership, but I certainly hope the Bearcats can become the draw they once were and we will see HD coverage locally. I also miss hearing Dan Hoard on TV with Fox19. Anthony Buford is OK, but Tom Gelehrter isn't my favorite. I really would like to see Hoard and Machock simulcast on radio and TV. There are obvious obstacles with that, but in a perfect world...

nmculbreth
12-21-2010, 05:33 PM
Well there's the advantage of having dominated the inferior competition. As I said about Indiana's (easier) schedule, it's not as though playing these terrible teams make them any worse. If they played teams more challenging, than they'd have fewer OOC wins, and they'd need to win more Big East games anyway.
If you say they have to win 10 Big East games to get in, that's a reasonable guess, that means they win 23 games?
If they instead played two or three more difficult teams and lost, would a 8 and 10 Big East Record with only 20 wins and no difficult out of conference wins?

Basically, the out of conference schedule doesn't really matter. In order to be considered, they'll have to get enough Big East wins that one or two is sure to be a big scalp to hang on the wall.

This is pretty much my line of thinking as well. For a bubble team like UC in a good conference, there is pretty much no incentive to try to play a challenging OOC schedule. If UC had played a better OOC and had a couple of nice wins, similar to last season with wins over Vanderbilt and Maryland in Maui, they'd still need to go 9-9 in conference to get any NCAA tournament consideration.

Compare that to this season where if they take care of business in their non-conference schedule and go 13-0 and go 9-9 in the Big East they'll probably be squarely on the bubble. If they manage to go 10-8, they're likely going to be in the tournament.

Exactly what would be the motivation to play anyone decent OOC unless you're a lock for the NCAA tournament and want to improve your seeding?

Brutus
12-21-2010, 05:40 PM
That's a good point as to making the tournament, Hoosier, and one that's changed over the past five years. The Selection Committee really rewards conference wins; it doesn't really matter what you do before that point.

Ask Jim Boeheim and Seth Greenberg if that's true. They were both left out because they lacked anything in the non-conference.

I strongly disagree with this statement. Actually, the last 5 years, the committee has been pointing very strongly to non-conference wins (unless you're Utah State, Missouri State or Air Force, in which you can get away with it somehow).

I lost my data recently because of a hard drive crash, but to give you some perspective, no major conference team in the past 10 years has made the NCAA Tournament with a non-conference SOS of less than a 200 rank unless they were at least 2 games over .500 in conference play. Right now, UC's SOS is among the worst in college basketball (334 out of 345). Despite being undefeated, their RPI is in the high 80's.

Bottom line: non-conference absolutely does matter. Cincinnati can overcome not having any good wins in that regard, but it has absolutely no margin for error. It has to pick up some good road wins and it cannot lose to teams like DePaul within the conference.

Brutus
12-22-2010, 03:40 PM
BTW, I thought last night's win against Miami was a good one for Cincinnati. It's the type of game that could be a much better test for a team than you would think on paper.

I've been increasingly impressed with Dion Dixon. He's stepping up as a go-to scorer. UC just needs to get more consistent production from the others.

Cincinnati will have absolutely no margin for error with the schedule. Contrary to the previous suggestions, the committee absolutely does value non-conference wins. However, they will have plenty of opportunity to pick up wins in the Big East. They must capitalize on some of them and not lose any games they shouldn't lose.

Good job last night, though, avoiding a letdown.

paintmered
12-24-2010, 10:21 AM
And to the Big East schedule we go! No more patsies (DePaul notwithstanding).

Can the Cats get to 10 wins?

Roy Tucker
12-24-2010, 01:09 PM
I can't totally fault UC for playing a cupcake pre-BE schedule. The team had a lot of unknowns and rebuilding going into this season so a lot of fairly easy W's build up confidence and teamwork.

We'll see how good they are now. I think they are a nice team. Just need some battle-testing now.

Cyclone792
12-24-2010, 02:57 PM
And to the Big East schedule we go! No more patsies (DePaul notwithstanding).

Can the Cats get to 10 wins?

After looking more closely at the Big East schedule, I'll be quite disappointed if the Cats can't win 10 regular season Big East games.

They have DePaul, Seton Hall, South Florida, St. John's and Rutgers all at home. If they take care of business, that should be five Big East wins right there. They also have DePaul and St. John's each on the road as well, and that really should be two additional wins.

Essentially if UC takes of business and beats the Big East teams they're supposed to beat, they'll have seven wins in the bag. Obviously it doesn't always work that way, but taking care of business in those seven games goes a long way toward reaching the magical 10-win mark.

Brutus
12-24-2010, 02:58 PM
After looking more closely at the Big East schedule, I'll be quite disappointed if the Cats can't win 10 regular season Big East games.

They have DePaul, Seton Hall, South Florida, St. John's and Rutgers all at home. If they take care of business, that should be five Big East wins right there. They also have DePaul and St. John's each on the road as well, and that really should be two additional wins.

Essentially if UC takes of business and beats the Big East teams they're supposed to beat, they'll have seven wins in the bag. Obviously it doesn't always work that way, but taking care of business in those seven games goes a long way toward reaching the magical 10-win mark.

Don't underestimate Rutgers, CE. Mike Rice has them playing solid basketball this year. They will not be an easy win whatsoever.

BearcatShane
12-24-2010, 05:16 PM
Don't underestimate Rutgers, CE. Mike Rice has them playing solid basketball this year. They will not be an easy win whatsoever.

True. But is is at UC and not at the RAC so if UC's gonna make the Tournament that is a game they should win.

Sea Ray
12-29-2010, 09:24 AM
Nice win last night in the Big East opener for the 'Cats. I understand a home win over the Blue Demons doesn't mean they're going to the tournament but why the silence around here? Isn't there enough success to at least talk about it? Maybe it's the fact that a lot of these games aren't on TV so nobody sees the game. I'll be at the game on New Years Eve before I head off to a party. I'm curious as to how far this team will go this year. Not only has their schedule been soft, they've had almost all their games at home.

They pretty well blew out DePaul last night. They jumped ahead by 20 some points in the first half and costed to an easy win


If nothing else, we fans have more to follow in the Bearcats this year

nmculbreth
12-30-2010, 11:47 AM
Nice win last night in the Big East opener for the 'Cats. I understand a home win over the Blue Demons doesn't mean they're going to the tournament but why the silence around here? Isn't there enough success to at least talk about it? Maybe it's the fact that a lot of these games aren't on TV so nobody sees the game. I'll be at the game on New Years Eve before I head off to a party. I'm curious as to how far this team will go this year. Not only has their schedule been soft, they've had almost all their games at home.


I think the lack of TV is one of the biggest reasons for the current state of apathy, aside from the fact that the team hasn't been good in awhile. It's just really hard to find a game on TV. In the heydey of the Huggins era you could consistently find the games on channel 19 in Cincinnati and could count on a few nationally televised games. This season half of the games haven't been televised and those that have been televised are on stations that fewer people to which have access. It's tough to build excitement if people can't see the team perform.

That said I'm encouraged by the DePaul game and for that matter the season as a whole. Its tough to determine how good this team actually is but they seem to be playing better as a team than they have in years past and seem to be regaining some of the Bearcat swagger. I'll be interested to see how they fare against the upper echelon Big East teams.

NorrisHopper30
12-30-2010, 12:15 PM
I think the game tomorrow vs SH is on ESPN2 at 8pm.

BearcatShane
01-01-2011, 05:19 AM
UC beats Seton Hall 70-53.

14-0 and 2-0 in the League.

joshnky
01-01-2011, 11:19 AM
I didn't realize how weak UC's schedule really was until I pulled it up and saw only one top 100 RPI win (Dayton). But as has been pointed out, they're still winning at a time when other teams are getting upset by weak competition.

The stretch after the Xavier game should be very telling about where this team stands.

Caveat Emperor
01-01-2011, 02:42 PM
It's pretty interesting -- there's absolutely zero buzz about this team around town.

Roy Tucker
01-01-2011, 03:34 PM
It's pretty interesting -- there's absolutely zero buzz about this team around town.

I would think it will heat up quickly.

I must admit, I am one of those ..... I won't say a doubter ... but someone who is waiting to see what they do against good competition.

Being undefeated is a great thing, but its been difficult to gauge how good this team really is. The DePaul win was good (especially after seeing the scare they threw at UConn) and the Seton Hall win is even better. They really ought to pop into the top 25 this week. A Big East win is a Big East win, I don't care who the competition is.

The thing I've been the most impressed with is their defense and team play. Its a 180 degree turnaround from last year's 2 guys go one-on-one and fundementally unsound team.

LoganBuck
01-01-2011, 05:00 PM
I just want to see them play someone of quality. Even Seton Hall was without their best player. I think they have to go at least 11-7 in conference to make the tournament, because their schedule has been so weak to this point.

NorrisHopper30
01-01-2011, 09:30 PM
I just want to see them play someone of quality. Even Seton Hall was without their best player. I think they have to go at least 11-7 in conference to make the tournament, because their schedule has been so weak to this point.

UC fans should be rooting very hard for the Flyers throughout the year because that could end up being a pretty quality win if they win the a-10. Temple will probably win though.

bucksfan2
01-03-2011, 08:29 AM
It's pretty interesting -- there's absolutely zero buzz about this team around town.

And rightfully so. This is the type of schedule Mick should have played in his first season as a HC. For a Big East program with NCAA aspirations its an absolute joke of a schedule. They should have realized their Big East schedule starts off soft and play a few better teams early on. Even X is down this season and probably won't give them much help.

SeeinRed
01-03-2011, 09:50 AM
I really don't understand all the fuss about the non conference schedule. UC has been the victim of schools not playing as well as you would have thought when the schedule was made, as well as a victim of ESPN. UC was originally scheduled to play Duke, but ESPN took that away so they could have a Duke vs. Butler rematch. UC was then slated to play Oklahoma who has lost quite a few players early to the NBA. Dayton is a decent opponent and is currently 12-3. Sure they haven't played anyone, but Dayton really isn't given enough credit because they were blown out by UC. Xavier is down this year, and Miami is always a tough place to play no matter how their record indicates.

Sure, none of this comes into consideration when it comes to selecting them, but it isn't a schedule Mick sought to play this season. UC also has some very serious financial restraints when it comes to scheduling. These schedules are usually mostly set at least a couple years in advance.

All that said, UC is still undefeated. They have beaten their non-conference foes by an average of 21 points. Beating Seton Hall was tought than it looked also. I'd even be willing to bet Seton Hall upsets a couple teams this year even without Hazell. There should be buzz around this team right now because they are 14-0. There is absolutely no excuse for fans not to be excited about the Bearcats IMO. If you are really a fan of the team, you should feel pretty good. There will be skeptics, and rightfully so, but they are mostly outsiders. Fans by nature should support the team and be excited when they do well. They aren't going to stay undefeated, but they will have a solid year. I'm absolutely giddy right now over how the season has gone.

Reds4Life
01-03-2011, 02:12 PM
They are ranked now.

8 of the top 25 teams are from the Big East. Going to be a tough conference schedule when half your conference is ranked in the top 25.

Sea Ray
01-03-2011, 04:59 PM
They are ranked now.

8 of the top 25 teams are from the Big East. Going to be a tough conference schedule when half your conference is ranked in the top 25.

Nice to be ranked but RPI of 65 ain't so good

BRM
01-03-2011, 05:17 PM
Big East still has 8 teams in the top 17 for RPI, UC just isn't one of them. It's the number 1 conference overall.

paintmered
01-03-2011, 05:24 PM
Dear ESPN,

Don't take away UC's game with Duke and then cry that they don't play anyone out of conference.

Thanks,
paint

dabvu2498
01-03-2011, 09:06 PM
Dear ESPN,

Don't take away UC's game with Duke and then cry that they don't play anyone out of conference.

Thanks,
paint

Still, it just would have given them just 3 non-conference games against teams with RPIs over 100 and just 2 over 50. And I doubt UD stays over 50. They have issues scoring. Big issues.

Compared to 7 games against teams with RPIs 273 or worse.

No one is saying schedule a murderer's row with this squad, but the cupcakes could have been slightly less tasty.

BearcatShane
01-03-2011, 09:31 PM
If UC played a top 20 non conference schedule, it would of taken 10 Big East wins to make the tournament. UC did play a really bad non conference schedule so it'll take 11-12 Big East wins to make the tournament.

My point is yes they have to do some extra work, but not a ton, win 1 or 2 more games in league play and they are in. When your in a power 6 conference, you make your case in conference play.

BearcatShane
01-04-2011, 03:43 AM
This whole topic has been beaten into the ground but I'm going to give my two cents on it again. It's really annoying how some people think Mick Cronin is doing a subpar job at UC. He got here five years ago with ONE player, and that player was a below average Big East power forward in Cedric McGowan. Hello! So Mick recruits a bunch of JUCO's who if it wasn't for an extremely poorly timed firing on Bob Huggins, just about all these JUCO's would have never even been looked at by UC. Then Mick loses a ton of games in his first two years with these guys then everyone thinks he can't coach. Then the JUCO's graduate and people are acting like year 3 is the year for Mick, like it's make or break because he had this top 25 recruiting class and he should be able to go 22-8 in the Big East with all these freshman and sophomores with not one player who had been there to teach the young guys what Cincinnati Basketball is and how its played. They go through the year at 16 and 14 and this is when most everyone started to turn on Mick and get the idea that he can't coach. He then gets Lance Stephenson and they gain some hype and they go to Maui and win two games and people think Cincinnati Basketball is finally back but they fail to make the tournament again and everyone but a select few are dead set that Cronin sucks. The reason I bring all this up is because it seems like a lot of people are writing off UC's 14-0 start. Yes, they have not played a good schedule and I understand that but I have heard many people talk and they almost openly root for Cronin to fail and they are 100% certain that as soon as UC gets in the middle of the Big East they will get drilled. Can't people at least wait and see? They are finally on solid ground and have seniors who have been here and are willing to teach the younger players. I just wish people would give Cronin more of a chance now that he is on solid ground and has the caliber of players that he wanted and had actual time to recruit. He's a Cincinnati guy and I think he can be very successful. I just wish all UC fans could get behind him. Indiana is going through a very similar situation, it takes time to get back to prominence after a program has been wrecked.

Caveat Emperor
01-04-2011, 08:25 AM
I just wish people would give Cronin more of a chance now that he is on solid ground and has the caliber of players that he wanted and had actual time to recruit. He's a Cincinnati guy and I think he can be very successful. I just wish all UC fans could get behind him. Indiana is going through a very similar situation, it takes time to get back to prominence after a program has been wrecked.

Trouble is, he's such a boring dude -- and his teams, historically, have played a boring brand of basketball. If you want to engage and energize a fanbase, you do that not only by winning, but by playing with an up-tempo and intense style.

paintmered
01-04-2011, 08:43 AM
Trouble is, he's such a boring dude -- and his teams, historically, have played a boring brand of basketball. If you want to engage and energize a fanbase, you do that not only by winning, but by playing with an up-tempo and intense style.

Cronin often said that he wants to play a pressing, up-tempo game. He lacked the guard play and depth to actually pull it off.

UC is doing it more now this year.

nmculbreth
01-04-2011, 11:07 AM
they fail to make the tournament again and everyone but a select few are dead set that Cronin sucks..

While I recognize that Cronin came into a very bad situation, I think he deserves much of the criticism that he has received. Despite bringing in a number of well regarded recruits, very few players have actually improved in their time here. While other teams seem to get better toward the end of the year, Cronin's UC teams have typically struggled (though some might say choked) down the stretch. IMHO the consistent lack of development falls squarely on the coaching staff.

That said this team looks like it may have turned the corner. They're playing much better as a team than they have in years past and hopefully that will translate into wins down the stretch.

Boss-Hog
01-04-2011, 11:49 AM
While I recognize that Cronin came into a very bad situation, I think he deserves much of the criticism that he has received. Despite bringing in a number of well regarded recruits, very few players have actually improved in their time here. While other teams seem to get better toward the end of the year, Cronin's UC teams have typically struggled (though some might say choked) down the stretch. IMHO the consistent lack of development falls squarely on the coaching staff.

That said this team looks like it may have turned the corner. They're playing much better as a team than they have in years past and hopefully that will translate into wins down the stretch.
Very well said.

SeeinRed
01-04-2011, 12:00 PM
While I recognize that Cronin came into a very bad situation, I think he deserves much of the criticism that he has received. Despite bringing in a number of well regarded recruits, very few players have actually improved in their time here. While other teams seem to get better toward the end of the year, Cronin's UC teams have typically struggled (though some might say choked) down the stretch. IMHO the consistent lack of development falls squarely on the coaching staff.

That said this team looks like it may have turned the corner. They're playing much better as a team than they have in years past and hopefully that will translate into wins down the stretch.

The recruits not developing argument and team falling off at the end of the year is not suprising. For one, most of the actual "well regarded" recruits that he brought in are still on this team and have noticably improved. Wright, Dixon, Bishop, Thomas, and yes even Gates have improved their game this year. Dixon and Bishop are the most improved of the group and they have really taken off so far this year. Players like Larry Davis are even giving more quality minutes than last year. It really is a tired argument IMO.

As for falling off at the end of the year, Cronin has not been afforded the luxury of Depth until this year because the recruiting is actually starting to pay off. Cronin doesn't have to dig deep to find the depth he needed for his style of play in JUCO for the first time. That lack of depth really starts to wear on the players towards the end of the year. They simply ran out of steam. Quite understandable IMO.

This years team is the type of team you will see in the future from Cronin. Press, tenacious D, and team oriented offense. You have to have the athletes for it and Cronin finally does.

BearcatShane
01-04-2011, 07:11 PM
I get the argument of how players really didn't get better in Mick's first couple of years but I have a counter-argument. In my opinion, in order for young players to improve I think it's important to already have players who have been there and done that to show them the ropes and teach the young players how hard you have to work and how things need to be done. Mick did not have that. He does now and look at how Dion Dixon and Cash Wright are doing now. Thats all part of what I mean when I say the program is now on solid ground, they have upper-classmen that have been here and are willing to teach the younger players. Lets hope it works out and UC wins a lot more games this year.

Now, I probably sound like Mick Cronin's mother and I really do not want to come off that way but I am just confident he is a good coach. I hope he proves me right.

nmculbreth
01-04-2011, 09:40 PM
For one, most of the actual "well regarded" recruits that he brought in are still on this team and have noticably improved. Wright, Dixon, Bishop, Thomas, and yes even Gates have improved their game this year. Dixon and Bishop are the most improved of the group and they have really taken off so far this year. Players like Larry Davis are even giving more quality minutes than last year. It really is a tired argument IMO.


I'll be the first to admit that this team looks better than any team that Cronin has had at UC. It's kind of tough to measure how much better his players are given that they've yet to really play anyone decent but I'm cautiously optimistic.

That said, it's a "tired argument" because up until this season it has been true. Can you name a single player who has gotten appreciably better in their time at UC? Deonta Vaugh peaked as a sophomore and had his worst season as a senior. Anthony McClain and Darnell Wilks were both top 75 recruits and four years later neither have been able to contribute in any meaningful way. Yancy Gates was a top 25 recruit and three years later he's largely the same player he was when he first walked on campus. Stephenson was a McDonalds All-American and showed very little improvement during his one season at UC.

While I don't think it's fair to blame a coach when a player doesn't develop, when a pattern like this emerges I think it's perfectly fair to question what the coaching staff is doing.

BearcatShane
01-04-2011, 11:11 PM
Wilks has been productive this year, he doesn't score a ton but he does a lot of good things on the court. Bishop has improved his scoring every year and Dixon and Cashmere Wright have seemed to improve, albeit vs questionable competition at times so the jury may still be out.

paintmered
01-05-2011, 12:53 AM
Biggie's foot problems severely limited his practice time, which resulted in his stunted development.

Also, Wilks was headed to prep school when Cronin lost a recruit at the last second and brought Wilks in a year early. Wilks should have redshirted as a freshman but Cronin didn't have that luxury back then.

NorrisHopper30
01-05-2011, 01:21 AM
I can't believe some people are still saying that UC isn't good because they have a bad schedule...since when does your schedule affect how good you are?? Would Duke be bad with our schedule???

Boston Red
01-05-2011, 01:25 AM
I can't believe some people are still saying that UC isn't good because they have a bad schedule...since when does your schedule affect how good you are?? Would Duke be bad with our schedule???

I think it's more that no one has any idea if UC is any good (or how good they might be) since they haven't played any decent competition (save for maybe Dayton). Probably won't find much more out Thursday night either (unless they lose, of course).

Redlegs23
01-06-2011, 01:05 PM
The whole soft schedule thing is driving me crazy. Playing a tough non-conference schedule does not suddenly put a bubble team in the tourney. Playing the games alone will not do jack squat for the team. It's all about quality wins. If you lose those tough non-conference games then you're digging a bigger hole before the brutal Big East schedule begins. UC will have plenty, plenty, plenty of opportunities to get quality wins in Big East play.

For example, if UC played two tough non-conference games and lost them both, and then finished with 10 Big East wins, they probably would not make the tourney. The committee would see that they did ok in conference, but the only two tough non-conference games they played they got beat. Likewise, if they play the current schedule and only win 10 Big East games, again, they will likely miss out on the tourney.

However, if they won 10 Big East games and split the two tough hypothetical non-conference games there's a decent chance they would get in with that extra quality win. Likewise, with their current schedule if they win 11 conference games there's a decent chance they get in.

Quality wins with no bad losses people, that's what will get teams in the tournament. Just because a team plays a couple tough non-conference games does not mean they will automatically win them.

Teams in lesser conferences must play tough non-conference schedules because there may be only 3-4 chances at getting decent in conference wins. In the Big East you have about 10 chances at getting quality wins in conference, which pretty much eliminates the need to beat anybody in the non-conference schedule.

Someone posted on another board that outside of the Big East the highest number of top 50 RPI games any team in the top 25 has remaining on their schedule is 4. UC has 10 top 50 RPI games remaining. I repeat, UC does not need a tough non-conference schedule since they are in the Big East! At the end of the day UC's strength of schedule will be right up there with most of the other BCS schools.

And one more thing to add, Dayton will end up being a decent win (I think they're 13-3 now with only a few tough games remaining), and if we beat Xavier tonight that will also look like a quality win at the end of the year.

Redlegs23
01-06-2011, 01:14 PM
I can't believe some people are still saying that UC isn't good because they have a bad schedule...since when does your schedule affect how good you are?? Would Duke be bad with our schedule???

It's not holding back people's opinion of Ohio State at all. They have played Florida and that is absolutely it. The rest of their schedule looks like ours so far. And even Florida is just a moderately good team IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I think Ohio State is very good, but I'm just throwing out an example of another team that has played a very poor non-conference schedule. I don't hear people saying that they need x number of Big Ten wins to make the tourney since they played a weak schedule.

And to put it in perspective a little, OSU has 5 games remaining against ranked teams, none of which are in the top 10. UC has 7 games remaining against ranked teams, 4 of which are in the top 10. On top of that UC also plays Marquette, Louisville, West Virginia and St. Johns twice. Just an absolutely brutal schedule from here on out, but apparently people are all worked up over UC non-conference schedule.

joshnky
01-06-2011, 06:18 PM
Just an absolutely brutal schedule from here on out, but apparently people are all worked up over UC non-conference schedule.

I'm not worked up about UC's non-conference schedule, I just won't think much of them until they beat someone in the top 50 of the RPI (although the Dayton win is looking better). Like you said, the schedule will be there in the end but expect people to question your team when they play a schedule ranked 327th in the RPI. By comparison, Louisville gets a lot of the same schedule criticism from UK fans and their schedule is ranked 86th with two top 50 wins.

In a two weeks, this conversation will be totally different. Either UC will have proven legitimate by knocking off one of the big three Big East teams or the criticism will have some substance.

paintmered
01-06-2011, 07:32 PM
The Shootout is always such a whistlefest. It's not the rivalry for you if you like pretty basketball.

Caveat Emperor
01-06-2011, 07:48 PM
Yancey Gates just made one of those shots that you only see in old-school NES games when the computer is trying to catch up in the 2nd half.

Brutus
01-06-2011, 08:03 PM
It's not holding back people's opinion of Ohio State at all. They have played Florida and that is absolutely it. The rest of their schedule looks like ours so far. And even Florida is just a moderately good team IMO.

Don't get me wrong, I think Ohio State is very good, but I'm just throwing out an example of another team that has played a very poor non-conference schedule. I don't hear people saying that they need x number of Big Ten wins to make the tourney since they played a weak schedule.

And to put it in perspective a little, OSU has 5 games remaining against ranked teams, none of which are in the top 10. UC has 7 games remaining against ranked teams, 4 of which are in the top 10. On top of that UC also plays Marquette, Louisville, West Virginia and St. Johns twice. Just an absolutely brutal schedule from here on out, but apparently people are all worked up over UC non-conference schedule.

I don't think you appreciate actually how much difference there is between even Ohio State's schedule and Cincinnati's schedule. Ohio State had the road game against Florida, which is a solid NCAA Tournament team.

For perspective (and I agree OSU's schedule isn't tough), Cincinnati has played one top-100 team in the RPI (Dayton), two road games (Miami and Toledo) and a neutral game (Oklahoma). The RPI, entering the week, of those teams were 49, 118, 269 and 201 respectively. On the average, Cincinnati's average opponent' win percentage is .328 (which is 328 out of 345 teams in the country).

Ohio State, since you brought them up, has played three top100 teams -- two of which were on the road. They've played four road games (Florida, Florida St., Indiana and Iowa) and the average opponent win percentage is .488 (No. 188 in the country).

So yes, Ohio State's schedule isn't very tough, but the difference even between they and Cincinnati is remarkable right now.

Now for me, I don't believe that because Cincinnati played an awful schedule that thereby they're not any good. I think that's a fallacious argument and I hate that many people in the sports universe actually use that. But I also think it's fair to withhold judgment until they do play someone of consequence (like tonight). I don't think whether Cincinnati tried to schedule anyone in the non-conference is too important, mostly because it's more about the merits of the actual schedule than who a team tried to play.

All that said, I think this Cincinnati team is legit when it comes to hard-nosed defense. They defend on the ball extremely well and help of even better. While there aren't a ton of true scoring threats offensively, IMHO, I'm impressed with the spacing, ball movement and lack of wasted dribbling that plagues a lot of teams. UC will have to earn the wins against teams like Pittsburgh, Syracuse, Georgetown and Louisville, but as long as they play hard and play smart, they're capable of it.

WMR
01-06-2011, 08:55 PM
I would love to see the Bearcats thump Louisville. ;)

paintmered
01-06-2011, 11:51 PM
Larry Davis - a complete failure of a player. Can't score, can't guard. I don't know how he gets as minutes as he does. Yet, Cronin keeps throwing him in there to disastrous results.


I don't know what happened over the off-season, but Larry Davis has gone from the quoted to an asset. I'll gladly eat my shorts for him proving everyone wrong and not mailing in his senior season.

SeeinRed
01-07-2011, 12:46 AM
I don't know what happened over the off-season, but Larry Davis has gone from the quoted to an asset. I'll gladly eat my shorts for him proving everyone wrong and not mailing in his senior season.

Impossible! I didn't think anyone could improve while Cronin was coach. GASP!:cool:

How about Gates tonight also. Boy, it'd be great to see that during conference play.

NorrisHopper30
01-07-2011, 01:16 AM
Beautiful.

Reds4Life
01-09-2011, 05:00 PM
Well, first loss of the year.

The officiating in this game was horrendous. Between the two teams, there were 58 free throws attempt. 58! 20 of those were by Nova in the first half alone. We did make it interesting in the second half at least, they didn't laydown and quit. At one point 4 of the 5 starters for Nova had 4 fouls each.

The game would have been a lot more fun if it wasn't for the awful officiating.

paintmered
01-10-2011, 12:11 AM
At least UC won't face any better guard play than they saw today.

SeeinRed
01-10-2011, 12:26 AM
Well, first loss of the year.

The officiating in this game was horrendous. Between the two teams, there were 58 free throws attempt. 58! 20 of those were by Nova in the first half alone. We did make it interesting in the second half at least, they didn't laydown and quit. At one point 4 of the 5 starters for Nova had 4 fouls each.

The game would have been a lot more fun if it wasn't for the awful officiating.


I don't like complaining about officiating, but it was horrible. UC lost the game because they weren't as sharp as they should have been, so its not like the officials cost them the game IMO, but it was really bad. It made me think that some calls weren't made just because Mick said something that got to the officials. I'm obviously biased, but it seemed most of the bad calls cost UC. Even the announcer, who was a Nova player, made a couple comments on some of the calls/no calls.

I also though the whistle was really quick on Thomas' technical. I don't know what he said, but that kind of reaction is not exactly uncommon on a foul call. Either way, Thomas really needed to keep his cool.

The biggest thing that stood out to me today were the wasted offensive possesions and missed free throws. The first half could not have gone worse for UC. Even though they fell behind by 20, they kept fighting and made it a game in the second half. It was very good to see UC fight like that. No shame in losing to Nova on their court. I'm sure there are plenty of people pointing to this game and saying that it proves UC isn't for real. I'm glad, it seems like the team need that chip on its sholder right now.

BearcatShane
01-10-2011, 01:30 AM
Eh. UC wasn't going undefeated obviously. Nova's now won 45 straight games on that court and they are very good so no shame in losing today. They battled but they just weren't going to win that game. Now Cronins job is to make sure they guys don't get down on thereselves and they win the game vs South Florida Wednesday

SeeinRed
01-14-2011, 03:48 PM
Eh. UC wasn't going undefeated obviously. Nova's now won 45 straight games on that court and they are very good so no shame in losing today. They battled but they just weren't going to win that game. Now Cronins job is to make sure they guys don't get down on thereselves and they win the game vs South Florida Wednesday

UC held together and beat South Florida. I think a lot of people looked at South Florida and thought they would be an easy win, but they have played tough against pretty much everyone this season. Next up, Syracuse. I am excited to see how UC responds. They've gotten a taste of tough BE competition with Nova and shouldn't be suprised with the physical play. I think UC matches up well with Syracuse. It will be tough, but it should be a good game.

paintmered
01-15-2011, 12:19 PM
UC off to a horrible start against Syracuse. Down 12 after 6 minutes. UC is 1-7 shooting so far. Make that 1-8 now.

paintmered
01-15-2011, 12:25 PM
Cincy starts to find their bearings from outside, drains a pair of threes and cuts the deficit to 9.

paintmered
01-15-2011, 12:32 PM
UC is working hard, but the shots aren't falling and Syracuse seemingly does everything well. If it wasn't for UC forcing turnovers, they'd be down by 18 right now.

paintmered
01-15-2011, 12:42 PM
Lead down to five...

dougdirt
01-15-2011, 02:40 PM
That did not end well (or start well in the second half).

Cedric
01-15-2011, 03:37 PM
That did not end well (or start well in the second half).

UC plays without poise more than any team I have ever watched.

Is that the basketball Iq of the players or is that the coach? And Yancy Gates is marshmallow soft on the bball court.

NorrisHopper30
01-15-2011, 05:00 PM
UC plays without poise more than any team I have ever watched.

Is that the basketball Iq of the players or is that the coach? And Yancy Gates is marshmallow soft on the bball court.

People need to remember that it isn't easy to play with "poise" @Vill and @Syracuse...both teams play incredible defenses and in tough arenas vs top 10 teams...they'll make you look stupid.

Everyone needs to stay calm..the Cats will be fine.

Cedric
01-15-2011, 05:23 PM
People need to remember that it isn't easy to play with "poise" @Vill and @Syracuse...both teams play incredible defenses and in tough arenas vs top 10 teams...they'll make you look stupid.

Everyone needs to stay calm..the Cats will be fine.

Based on what? His teams have played this way for 4 years straight.

I expect them to collapse like always. They weren't tested enough in the non conference schedule to know how to compete against real talented teams.

bucksfan2
01-17-2011, 08:31 AM
Based on what? His teams have played this way for 4 years straight.

These collapses have been playing just well enough to lose and then losing to teams you never should lose to. Syracuse and Nova are tough teams to play, especially away but that doesn't mean you can't beat them. That doesn't mean you can't play better against them. I don't want to hear anything about moral victories coming out of this game.


I expect them to collapse like always. They weren't tested enough in the non conference schedule to know how to compete against real talented teams.

There preseason schedule was a joke, an absolute joke. They weren't tested one bit in the non conference schedule and it is really showing. If UC doesn't make the tournament then I hope Mick gets his walking papers.

Reds4Life
01-17-2011, 06:03 PM
If UC doesn't make the tournament then I hope Mick gets his walking papers.

If they miss the tournament, then I agree with you, he should be dumped. Having said that, I don't see it happening. The AD is broke, I have no idea what his buyout is, but if it's more than $100k, I don't see them doing it.

The lay of the land in the Big East works against them to, IMO. You'd have to hire a big name guy to compete for the top 1/3 of this league on a regular basis. That presents two problems, 1) They have no money for a big name coach 2) No big name coach would want to take over this program anyway. As for hiring a young guy, I get they have egos, but I think you'd be committing career suicide. It's hard to come into a league where 25% of the teams have a coach that's already in the HOF, and a few others have coaches that will be in the HOF. That doesn't even mention other things, like some of the guys combined have a truckload of Final 4 appearances. That's a tough road to hoe for a young coach, nearly impossible without a ton of luck, IMO.

nmculbreth
01-19-2011, 07:48 PM
People need to remember that it isn't easy to play with "poise" @Vill and @Syracuse...both teams play incredible defenses and in tough arenas vs top 10 teams...they'll make you look stupid.

Everyone needs to stay calm..the Cats will be fine.

Does the same sort of excuse apply to Notre Dame?

In all honesty, I didn't expect them to beat Villanova or Syracuse but you can't help but be discouraged by how the games transpired. They were out of both games early and despite trying to claw back to respectability, neither game was ever really in question.

At some point if UC wants to be considered a big time program they're going to have to start being competitive in hostile environments and start winning games. It's way too early to draw any conclusions but this performance looks a whole lot like the ones we've seen in the past few years.

NorrisHopper30
01-19-2011, 11:40 PM
Does the same sort of excuse apply to Notre Dame?

In all honesty, I didn't expect them to beat Villanova or Syracuse but you can't help but be discouraged by how the games transpired. They were out of both games early and despite trying to claw back to respectability, neither game was ever really in question.

At some point if UC wants to be considered a big time program they're going to have to start being competitive in hostile environments and start winning games. It's way too early to draw any conclusions but this performance looks a whole lot like the ones we've seen in the past few years.
I wouldn't call it an excuse to lose to three top 15 games away from home...

I'm a little worried by how we've played, but the fact is a loss is a loss and I was expecting to be 4-3 after this road trip ended...so cheers to beating St Johns.

Brutus
01-20-2011, 12:48 AM
I wouldn't call it an excuse to lose to three top 15 games away from home...

I'm a little worried by how we've played, but the fact is a loss is a loss and I was expecting to be 4-3 after this road trip ended...so cheers to beating St Johns.

Good teams go on the road and win 1 or 2 of those games. Even if not, good teams don't go on the road and lose all three by double digits.

I forgot to make the wager back when we were discussing it, but I really don't think UC makes the tournament. They still don't have a single win against a team that's going to be in the NCAA (except for the outside possibility Xavier gets in).

Think about the above statement for a moment, then consider it's already January 20.

Roy Tucker
01-20-2011, 08:14 AM
What's frustrating is that UC has show they can be competitive on the road. They play well for fairly long stretches. But they also can hit an 8-10 minute stretch where they play timidly and afraid and get themselves in a big hole. Which in the Big East on the road, you just can't do.

Gates needs to learn how to play the post. With that body and ability, there is no reason he should shy away from low post contact which he did repeatedly last night. Instead, he backs out after one bump and passes off or else shoots that doofus one-foot jumper.

And Kilpatrick needs to play more. He's the only real scorer they have.

Hoosier Red
01-20-2011, 10:26 AM
Good teams go on the road and win 1 or 2 of those games. Even if not, good teams don't go on the road and lose all three by double digits.

I forgot to make the wager back when we were discussing it, but I really don't think UC makes the tournament. They still don't have a single win against a team that's going to be in the NCAA (except for the outside possibility Xavier gets in).

Think about the above statement for a moment, then consider it's already January 20.

I'll take that bet.
I don't think we've learned anything either way about this team. They've beaten the teams they were supposed to beat, and done it soundly. They've lost to teams they would be expected to lose to, and soundly.

Has anyone beaten Syracuse, Villanova, or Notre Dame in their respective home arenas yet?

NorrisHopper30
01-20-2011, 12:37 PM
Good teams go on the road and win 1 or 2 of those games. Even if not, good teams don't go on the road and lose all three by double digits.

I forgot to make the wager back when we were discussing it, but I really don't think UC makes the tournament. They still don't have a single win against a team that's going to be in the NCAA (except for the outside possibility Xavier gets in).

Think about the above statement for a moment, then consider it's already January 20.

Good point dude...Syr/Vill/ND are undefeated at home and the top 10 in the Big East are a whopping 29-2 at home. "GOOD" teams don't go and steal games vs top teams at home...the teams that do the stealing are the great teams like Syr, Vill and Pitt and even they got knocked around this weekend on the road.

SeeinRed
01-20-2011, 01:17 PM
Good teams go on the road and win 1 or 2 of those games. Even if not, good teams don't go on the road and lose all three by double digits.

I forgot to make the wager back when we were discussing it, but I really don't think UC makes the tournament. They still don't have a single win against a team that's going to be in the NCAA (except for the outside possibility Xavier gets in).

Think about the above statement for a moment, then consider it's already January 20.

Completely disagree that good teams win 2 games. At Nova and at Syracuse are two games against top 10 teams that even very good teams will have trouble winning. I can see good teams winning one of the three. Also, not to pick nits, but UC didn't lose all three by double digits.

The not having a single win agains a tournament team is a great point, unless you actually point out that they have only played three teams that are likely to be tournament teams (if we are not counting Xavier), and that two of those teams are top 10 teams they played on the road. They still have to play Pitt, St. Johns twice, Georgetown twice, West Virginia, Louisville and UConn. Now, the Big East probably won't end up with 11 bids, but those are all teams some project to be in the tournament right now. UC has plenty of chances to get the wins they need to get in. Losing to Syracuse and Nova was no big deal. The ND games hurts, but it does not sink their chances.

I know that begs for the argument about how weak their non conference schedule was, but that wasn't the argument being made here. The argument being made is that UC somehow isn't a tournament team based on three games on the road. Is UC a lock to make the NCAA's this year? No. Are they a lock to miss? Absolutely not. UC has plenty of basketball to play before they can be judged.

Brutus
01-20-2011, 03:29 PM
Good point dude...Syr/Vill/ND are undefeated at home and the top 10 in the Big East are a whopping 29-2 at home. "GOOD" teams don't go and steal games vs top teams at home...the teams that do the stealing are the great teams like Syr, Vill and Pitt and even they got knocked around this weekend on the road.

Like I said... good teams play competitive.

Villanova, Syracuse and Notre Dame may not lose games often at home. And they haven't. So if UC were competitive, I wouldn't hold it against them too much that they lost. But they weren't competitive in either game.

Yet, Maryland was able to lead almost the entire game at Villanova. Maryland certainly isn't any better off than Cincinnati. But they fought and gave Villanova everything they could handle.

William & Mary, Iona, North Carolina St. and Providence were all nip & tuck with Syracuse in the dome and managed to keep it close for 40 minutes. None of those teams are even tournament caliber.

Indiana St., Gonzaga & Connecticut played competitive basketball with Notre Dame in South Bend.

Competitive basketball. If you can't even play competitive games against these teams away from home, and you've not beaten anyone that will be in the tournament (fair or not, it matters), why should you be considered an NCAA Tournament team? If you can't stay competitive against these teams, then you're not one of the best 37 at-large teams.

I'm not even criticizing Cincinnati necessarily that they didn't win one or two of those (though it's not the monumental task that it's being made out to be). But they weren't really competitive in any of the three games. Again, good teams DO play competitive in games like that. They don't get beaten by double-digits in all three games.

Right now, Ken Pomeroy's site (KenPom.com for those that have not seen it) has Cincinnati's projected record, based on current efficiency & margin numbers, to end up at 21-9 and 10-8 in the Big East. I know the easy thing to do is suggest 10-8 will get a Big East team in. But consider that if UC wins the games it's supposed to win within the aforementioned projection, there will be only a total of 3-4 wins against teams in the tournament, none away from home. That will almost never get a team into the tournament.

I'm still open for that wager.

paintmered
01-20-2011, 03:52 PM
Yet, Maryland was able to lead almost the entire game at Villanova. Maryland certainly isn't any better off than Cincinnati. But they fought and gave Villanova everything they could handle..

Maryland also didn't play Villanova on campus like UC did, fwiw.

NorrisHopper30
01-20-2011, 04:00 PM
Like I said... good teams play competitive.

Villanova, Syracuse and Notre Dame may not lose games often at home. And they haven't. So if UC were competitive, I wouldn't hold it against them too much that they lost. But they weren't competitive in either game.

Yet, Maryland was able to lead almost the entire game at Villanova. Maryland certainly isn't any better off than Cincinnati. But they fought and gave Villanova everything they could handle.

William & Mary, Iona, North Carolina St. and Providence were all nip & tuck with Syracuse in the dome and managed to keep it close for 40 minutes. None of those teams are even tournament caliber.

Indiana St., Gonzaga & Connecticut played competitive basketball with Notre Dame in South Bend.

Competitive basketball. If you can't even play competitive games against these teams away from home, and you've not beaten anyone that will be in the tournament (fair or not, it matters), why should you be considered an NCAA Tournament team? If you can't stay competitive against these teams, then you're not one of the best 37 at-large teams.

I'm not even criticizing Cincinnati necessarily that they didn't win one or two of those (though it's not the monumental task that it's being made out to be). But they weren't really competitive in any of the three games. Again, good teams DO play competitive in games like that. They don't get beaten by double-digits in all three games.

Right now, Ken Pomeroy's site (KenPom.com for those that have not seen it) has Cincinnati's projected record, based on current efficiency & margin numbers, to end up at 21-9 and 10-8 in the Big East. I know the easy thing to do is suggest 10-8 will get a Big East team in. But consider that if UC wins the games it's supposed to win within the aforementioned projection, there will be only a total of 3-4 wins against teams in the tournament, none away from home. That will almost never get a team into the tournament.

I'm still open for that wager.
You said good teams win 1 or 2 of those...not play competitive. Who cares if it was competitive? A loss is a loss..the only issue about not playing competitive is if it becomes a trend and we won't know for sure if it's a trend until we play a team that is just as good as us aka St Johns. If we go tank at SJ i'll get worried, but I'm not necessarily expecting a win.

PS. Maryland didn't play Villanova at an arena where Vill has won 45 straight.

SeeinRed
01-20-2011, 04:01 PM
I'm not even criticizing Cincinnati necessarily that they didn't win one or two of those (though it's not the monumental task that it's being made out to be). But they weren't really competitive in any of the three games. Again, good teams DO play competitive in games like that. They don't get beaten by double-digits in all three games.

Again, UC didn't lose by double digits in all three. If you are going to make statements meant to make things look worse, at least get that fact right. UC lost 66-58 last night. That is not by double digits. Not far off, but considering you are using double digits as a general statement to try and skew perception towards your point, you should probably use facts.

Also, I would say UC was competitive last night. UC didn't have the lead past the first couple minutes in the game, but they did bring it back to single digits, and even within five with a little over a minute left in the game. I concede the Syracuse and Nova games not being close, though UC did come back within single digits at Nova. Even good teams lose by double digits sometimes, especially when playing top 10 teams on the road.

I have not seen on UC fan tell anyone that the games at Syracuse and Nova were "monumental tasks." I have seen UC fans say that they weren't easy, and there is no shame in losing those games. Your argument is just as biased against UC as others are for UC. There is no way those games tell you if UC is or isn't a NCAA tournament team.

bucksfan2
01-20-2011, 04:16 PM
You said good teams win 1 or 2 of those...not play competitive. Who cares if it was competitive? A loss is a loss..the only issue about not playing competitive is if it becomes a trend and we won't know for sure if it's a trend until we play a team that is just as good as us aka St Johns. If we go tank at SJ i'll get worried, but I'm not necessarily expecting a win.

PS. Maryland didn't play Villanova at an arena where Vill has won 45 straight.

Me. Its all about a coach making the right adjustments, getting the right unit on the court together, and not seeing the same bad trends happening.

I would have no issue if UC played well against Syracuse and Nova. Both are solid clubs (ND is a good home team but I was not impressed with them) that are tough to beat on the road. But the troubling aspect for me was the same poor coaching and same poor playing by certain players. Its inexcusable to have your best scorer sitting on the bench for the first 8 minutes of a basketball game, a game in which you are having trouble scoring. Its inexcusable for Bishop and Thomas to continue to see extended playing time when they aren't producing. Its inexcusable to see your opponent go one a scoring run with your best scorer on the bench.

If you want to say that a loss is just a loss that is your prerogative. But when I watch the games I see the same things that have happened year in year out under Mick. Its nice and fun when UC is beating up on the likes of St. Francis, but when you see the same fundamental flaws against good teams its disheartening.

SeeinRed
01-20-2011, 05:01 PM
Me. Its all about a coach making the right adjustments, getting the right unit on the court together, and not seeing the same bad trends happening.

I would have no issue if UC played well against Syracuse and Nova. Both are solid clubs (ND is a good home team but I was not impressed with them) that are tough to beat on the road. But the troubling aspect for me was the same poor coaching and same poor playing by certain players. Its inexcusable to have your best scorer sitting on the bench for the first 8 minutes of a basketball game, a game in which you are having trouble scoring. Its inexcusable for Bishop and Thomas to continue to see extended playing time when they aren't producing. Its inexcusable to see your opponent go one a scoring run with your best scorer on the bench.

If you want to say that a loss is just a loss that is your prerogative. But when I watch the games I see the same things that have happened year in year out under Mick. Its nice and fun when UC is beating up on the likes of St. Francis, but when you see the same fundamental flaws against good teams its disheartening.

I'm a big UC and Mick supporter, but there is no disproving your points for the time being. UC has a chance to prove you wrong, but they haven't yet. I hope they do. I really hope they do.

Brutus
01-20-2011, 06:07 PM
You said good teams win 1 or 2 of those...not play competitive. Who cares if it was competitive? A loss is a loss..the only issue about not playing competitive is if it becomes a trend and we won't know for sure if it's a trend until we play a team that is just as good as us aka St Johns. If we go tank at SJ i'll get worried, but I'm not necessarily expecting a win.

PS. Maryland didn't play Villanova at an arena where Vill has won 45 straight.

My exact quote was:

"Good teams go on the road and win 1 or 2 of those games. Even if not, good teams don't go on the road and lose all three by double digits."

But it was convenient that you left the second part out.

The Villanova streak is somewhat misleading, because Nova plays a lot of their tougher games at Wells Fargo. So while the streak is impressive, it's not indicative necessarily of who they've beaten. Many of the big time opponents in and out of conference aren't played there.

NorrisHopper30
01-20-2011, 06:09 PM
My exact quote was:

"Good teams go on the road and win 1 or 2 of those games. Even if not, good teams don't go on the road and lose all three by double digits."

But it was convenient that you left the second part out.

The Villanova streak is somewhat misleading, because Nova plays a lot of their tougher games at Wells Fargo. So while the streak is impressive, it's not indicative necessarily of who they've beaten. Many of the big time opponents in and out of conference aren't played there.
I didn't quote that because it was inaccurate..

Brutus
01-20-2011, 06:16 PM
Again, UC didn't lose by double digits in all three. If you are going to make statements meant to make things look worse, at least get that fact right. UC lost 66-58 last night. That is not by double digits. Not far off, but considering you are using double digits as a general statement to try and skew perception towards your point, you should probably use facts.

Also, I would say UC was competitive last night. UC didn't have the lead past the first couple minutes in the game, but they did bring it back to single digits, and even within five with a little over a minute left in the game. I concede the Syracuse and Nova games not being close, though UC did come back within single digits at Nova. Even good teams lose by double digits sometimes, especially when playing top 10 teams on the road.

I have not seen on UC fan tell anyone that the games at Syracuse and Nova were "monumental tasks." I have seen UC fans say that they weren't easy, and there is no shame in losing those games. Your argument is just as biased against UC as others are for UC. There is no way those games tell you if UC is or isn't a NCAA tournament team.

You're really going to haggle over 2 points? Really?

Until the last 2 minutes of the game, it was never under 10 points after it was 16-8 early in the first half. But because of a small rally with a few minutes left to play you're going to haggle over qualifying it a double-digit loss because the final margin was 8 points? Come on now. Technicalities aside, the game was double digits for 30 of 40 minutes. Let's call a spade a spade.

I've been doing mock selection committee stuff for 10 years. That won't mean anything to you, but I've gotten used to what the committee looks for. This is not an NCAA Tournament team. Contrary to the assertion no one can learn anything from these games, I feel strongly about it. And contrary to the notion teams can't go on the road and play strong basketball against a good team, I say hooey. That's excuse-making for poor performances. Good teams do put up a fight. And I don't consider a misleading, cosmetic score change the last 1:30 a fight.

You say I'm biased against Cincinnati, but you couldn't be more wrong. I don't care about UC one way or another. I'll admit I don't like Cronin for other reasons that aren't important, but that's immaterial to this discussion. I actually prefer Cincinnati be relevant, if I'm being truthful. I helped launch the UC site on Scout as one of the publishers in 2005. And it certainly wasn't because I was "biased" against them.

I want them to make the tournament. I really, honestly do. But I'm sorry, I've followed the selection stuff closely, and this just doesn't have the looks of a tournament team.

I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect I'm not.

Brutus
01-20-2011, 06:18 PM
I didn't quote that because it was inaccurate..

LOL Ok then. So you're going to use the 2-point technicality to discredit the entire philosophy.

That's fallacious logic at its finest.

Signature bet. Loser has to change his sig to something of the winner's choice for one week (nothing over the top or R-rated, of course). Fair enough?

I'm wagering that UC is not in the field (short of winning the automatic bid) at the end of the year. If they win by virtue of the Big East Tournament, all bets are off.

webbbj
01-20-2011, 06:59 PM
The Cats better start loading up on some wins in the next 8 games, the weakest part of the big east schedule. Atleast 6-2 would be nice.

SeeinRed
01-20-2011, 07:53 PM
You're really going to haggle over 2 points? Really?

When you use it as an emphasis statement, which you obviously did, it makes a different in the context of the argument. You don't differentiate between losing by 10 points or losing by 30, and it was done so to make the losses appear more convincing than if you said they lost by 8 or lost by 11 which they did against Villanova.


Until the last 2 minutes of the game, it was never under 10 points after it was 16-8 early in the first half. But because of a small rally with a few minutes left to play you're going to haggle over qualifying it a double-digit loss because the final margin was 8 points? Come on now. Technicalities aside, the game was double digits for 30 of 40 minutes. Let's call a spade a spade.

These "technicalities" were never used to detract from your point, but arguing that UC wasn't competitive is not true. Sure, you can pull out some arbitrary numbers that you determine to mean UC was in the game or out of the game, but a game hovering around a 12 point difference for much of the second half is competitive. Even though UC never really threatened taking the lead, it doesn't mean they were not "competitive."


I've been doing mock selection committee stuff for 10 years. That won't mean anything to you, but I've gotten used to what the committee looks for.

You are right, it means nothing to me, other than you have argued about this before. I don't know you from Adam, and I really don't think it makes your argument anymore substantitive by throwing around what you've done, nor does it make mine any less valid. I don't know what you feel you need to prove by that statement, but it did not accomplish it. Its not that you can't be knowlegable on the subject, just that you have no idea the knowlege of other posters. I see no reason to tell each other our qualifications on the subject other than you want to make it seem you know more than everyone else.


This is not an NCAA Tournament team. Contrary to the assertion no one can learn anything from these games, I feel strongly about it. And contrary to the notion teams can't go on the road and play strong basketball against a good team, I say hooey. That's excuse-making for poor performances. Good teams do put up a fight. And I don't consider a misleading, cosmetic score change the last 1:30 a fight.

Anyone making such a statement right now is not who I would want on the selection committee. Might as well cancel the rest of the season and start the tournament. Teams can't improve and how they play in three games must be the team they really are. And I guess the final score is more cosmetic than appearance during the game. You say UC didn't put up a fight, and I say you must have been watching a different game. UC definitely put up a fight at ND and at Nova. Both games were within reach. Its not an excuse to say UC didn't have to win those games, and how they lost is irrelevant. What is misleading is claiming that I am making excuses for UC, or that it is irrelevant that they didn't lose all three games by double digits. Your points are aimed at maximizing the thought that UC was blown out in all three games.


You say I'm biased against Cincinnati, but you couldn't be more wrong. I don't care about UC one way or another. I'll admit I don't like Cronin for other reasons that aren't important, but that's immaterial to this discussion.

Simply not true. An unbiased opinion would be that you should wait until tournament time to decide who is in and who is out. You declare they are out then make bias argument for why they are. Your arguments are obviously skewed at making your opinion appear stonger as is evident by inserting arbitrary comparisons.

I've not once said UC was in or out of the tournament, because it is simply impossible to know. Anyone claiming to know must be able to see the future.



I actually prefer Cincinnati be relevant, if I'm being truthful. I helped launch the UC site on Scout as one of the publishers in 2005. And it certainly wasn't because I was "biased" against them.


A stated bias against Cronin is more than enough reason to not want them to be relevant. Sorry, any claim of being unbias is not one I can believe.


I want them to make the tournament. I really, honestly do. But I'm sorry, I've followed the selection stuff closely, and this just doesn't have the looks of a tournament team.

I hope I'm wrong, but I suspect I'm not.

So, because they don't look like a tournament team to you, they aren't? You've been right on every team you have seen and believed them not to be a tournament team? I'm not saying its not, but you are definitely making arguments based on the bias of what you think the team looks like.

FWIW, none of this is personal against you and I certainly hope you don't take it that way. I just don't trust it when people throw around why they think they know more than you on message boards. It adds nothing to the discussion.

Brutus
01-20-2011, 11:27 PM
When you use it as an emphasis statement, which you obviously did, it makes a different in the context of the argument. You don't differentiate between losing by 10 points or losing by 30, and it was done so to make the losses appear more convincing than if you said they lost by 8 or lost by 11 which they did against Villanova.



These "technicalities" were never used to detract from your point, but arguing that UC wasn't competitive is not true. Sure, you can pull out some arbitrary numbers that you determine to mean UC was in the game or out of the game, but a game hovering around a 12 point difference for much of the second half is competitive. Even though UC never really threatened taking the lead, it doesn't mean they were not "competitive."



You are right, it means nothing to me, other than you have argued about this before. I don't know you from Adam, and I really don't think it makes your argument anymore substantitive by throwing around what you've done, nor does it make mine any less valid. I don't know what you feel you need to prove by that statement, but it did not accomplish it. Its not that you can't be knowlegable on the subject, just that you have no idea the knowlege of other posters. I see no reason to tell each other our qualifications on the subject other than you want to make it seem you know more than everyone else.



Anyone making such a statement right now is not who I would want on the selection committee. Might as well cancel the rest of the season and start the tournament. Teams can't improve and how they play in three games must be the team they really are. And I guess the final score is more cosmetic than appearance during the game. You say UC didn't put up a fight, and I say you must have been watching a different game. UC definitely put up a fight at ND and at Nova. Both games were within reach. Its not an excuse to say UC didn't have to win those games, and how they lost is irrelevant. What is misleading is claiming that I am making excuses for UC, or that it is irrelevant that they didn't lose all three games by double digits. Your points are aimed at maximizing the thought that UC was blown out in all three games.



Simply not true. An unbiased opinion would be that you should wait until tournament time to decide who is in and who is out. You declare they are out then make bias argument for why they are. Your arguments are obviously skewed at making your opinion appear stonger as is evident by inserting arbitrary comparisons.

I've not once said UC was in or out of the tournament, because it is simply impossible to know. Anyone claiming to know must be able to see the future.



A stated bias against Cronin is more than enough reason to not want them to be relevant. Sorry, any claim of being unbias is not one I can believe.



So, because they don't look like a tournament team to you, they aren't? You've been right on every team you have seen and believed them not to be a tournament team? I'm not saying its not, but you are definitely making arguments based on the bias of what you think the team looks like.

FWIW, none of this is personal against you and I certainly hope you don't take it that way. I just don't trust it when people throw around why they think they know more than you on message boards. It adds nothing to the discussion.

Sort of you telling me I'm biased? What does that add to the discussion. If you truly want a discussion, don't start telling people what they believe and how they believe it, especially when they tell you that you're mistaken.

I said I have nothing against Cincinnati and you're basically telling me I do. What does that really add to the discussion?

I told you I didn't care for Cronin because I'm trying to be up front with you. Apparently you didn't appreciate the attempt. Instead, you're trying to build a strawman off the comment.

I probably wouldn't have used my 'credentials' in the discussion had you not called me biased. When you call someone biased, don't lecture them when they fire back with a comment like the one I made. You challenged my clarity and partiality on this, so why wouldn't I then fire back with my own background?

Anyhow, I think your understanding the word "bias" might need some recalibration. Bias assumes I have a prejudiced disposition against Cincinnati for some altruistic reason. It's getting kind of ridiculous how because I don't think they've got the team or resume to make the NCAA Tournament, that's somehow "biased." I simply don't think they pass the look or smell test. NCAA Tournament teams typically show a bit of a pulse and competitive edge in games against better teams. That hasn't happened.

Call it what you like. But if you don't want talked down to, don't throw the terms around so capriciously.

Redlegs23
01-22-2011, 03:46 PM
Brutus, do you think Cincinnati will make the tournament?

Seriously isn't there an Ohio State thread for you to post in? I mean, they are undefeated and #1 in the country and everything. We get it already, you don't think UC is a tournament team. I have my doubts as well, but you coming into the UC thread and repeatedly tell us that they aren't a tournament team is getting a little old. Especially when you throwing out how many points one team beats another by to prove your point.

Did you know that Ohio State lost by double digits to Butler last year? (Technically it was 8, but we will round up).

Oh, and Ohio State lost by 22 at Wisconsin last year. 22!

They lost by 9 at Michigan (rounded up to double digits).

Then they lost by 11 at Minnesota.

Yup, then there was that 16 point loss at West Virginia.

Can you believe that after all of those double digit losses they still ended up getting a 2 seed! Wow! I didn't think good teams did that!

Brutus
01-22-2011, 04:54 PM
Brutus, do you think Cincinnati will make the tournament?

Seriously isn't there an Ohio State thread for you to post in? I mean, they are undefeated and #1 in the country and everything. We get it already, you don't think UC is a tournament team. I have my doubts as well, but you coming into the UC thread and repeatedly tell us that they aren't a tournament team is getting a little old. Especially when you throwing out how many points one team beats another by to prove your point.

Did you know that Ohio State lost by double digits to Butler last year? (Technically it was 8, but we will round up).

Oh, and Ohio State lost by 22 at Wisconsin last year. 22!

They lost by 9 at Michigan (rounded up to double digits).

Then they lost by 11 at Minnesota.

Yup, then there was that 16 point loss at West Virginia.

Can you believe that after all of those double digit losses they still ended up getting a 2 seed! Wow! I didn't think good teams did that!

What does Ohio State have to do with anything? Isn't this a thread about Cincinnati?

BearcatShane
01-22-2011, 05:05 PM
What does Ohio State have to do with anything? Isn't this a thread about Cincinnati?

His point was solid teams lose on the road to solid teams and a lot of times look bad doing it. UC up by 6 on the road vs a decent St. Johns team..


UC needs this game.

Brutus
01-22-2011, 05:22 PM
His point was solid teams lose on the road to solid teams and a lot of times look bad doing it. UC up by 6 on the road vs a decent St. Johns team..


UC needs this game.

OK well it seemed he had other motives.

To his point about Ohio State, what he's leaving out is that OSU was without Evan Turner, the National Player of the Year, for three of their losses on the road, including Butler & Wisconsin.

And to be honest, I don't think anyone would have suggested they were a tournament team without Turner.

Brutus
01-22-2011, 06:09 PM
BTW, I didn't get to watch it as I've been watching Kansas-Texas, but I think the win today against St. John's is a nice win and will be important if they want to make the tournament. Kudos to UC for today.

BearcatShane
01-22-2011, 06:13 PM
BTW, I didn't get to watch it as I've been watching Kansas-Texas, but I think the win today against St. John's is a nice win and will be important if they want to make the tournament. Kudos to UC for today.

Agreed. One of if not the final tournament spot for a Big East team could easily come down to these two teams so having a win on the road against St. Johns in your back pocket is big. These two will play again in Cincy on February 13th.

Sea Ray
01-23-2011, 12:22 PM
What does Ohio State have to do with anything? Isn't this a thread about Cincinnati?

Fine, but why not answer his first question?

Brutus
01-23-2011, 02:02 PM
Fine, but why not answer his first question?

Oh, well I thought I'd been pretty clear in this thread that my opinion is that Cincinnati won't end up making it.

I mean after all, I offered to make a signature bet with a few people about it. I just assumed it was a rhetorical question. But as is, I just sat down last night to do my own bracket projection, as I start doing near February each year, and I'm amazed at how bland it gets after about the 32nd at-large spot. Which would be tough even if there were still 34 at-larges, but there are now 38.

So while I've said I'm not keen on Cincinnati's profile, there just aren't many pretty profiles out there to take. So I'm less bullish that they won't make it than I was before. The St. John's win certainly didn't hurt either.

NorrisHopper30
01-23-2011, 04:06 PM
Oh, well I thought I'd been pretty clear in this thread that my opinion is that Cincinnati won't end up making it.

I mean after all, I offered to make a signature bet with a few people about it. I just assumed it was a rhetorical question. But as is, I just sat down last night to do my own bracket projection, as I start doing near February each year, and I'm amazed at how bland it gets after about the 32nd at-large spot. Which would be tough even if there were still 34 at-larges, but there are now 35.

So while I've said I'm not keen on Cincinnati's profile, there just aren't many pretty profiles out there to take. So I'm less bullish that they won't make it than I was before. The St. John's win certainly didn't hurt either.

I'm down for a sig bet.

nmculbreth
01-26-2011, 11:18 PM
Another nice win for UC.

While Rutgers is a mediocre team, it's nice to see UC take care of business and win the games that they're expected to win. In past years UC struggled to take care of business and beat inferior teams, so it's very encouraging to see them start to reverse that trend.

As an aside, it's been a pretty crazy week in the Big East. Watching Seton Hall go to Syracuse and win and seeing Providence beat Villanova at home gives you perspective about just how deep the league actually is. Even against the bottom feeders there aren't many gimmies in this league. It makes UC taking care of business vs. the bottom half of the league all the more impressive.

NorrisHopper30
01-27-2011, 12:09 AM
UC still hasn't lost a game they should've won, not many teams can say that there have been a lot of upsets lately..

BearcatShane
01-29-2011, 01:17 PM
UC vs WVU at 8:00 tonight at Fifth Third Arena. This would be a decent win vs a top 25 RPI team.

Boston Red
01-29-2011, 05:18 PM
I think UC is basically a lock at this point. I trhink they've done plenty to prove they're deserving (just making the Tournament isn't THAT high a bar afterall). If Xavier keeps playing the way they are, UC will be able to point to that as a very high quality OOC win (especially given the margin). Even if UC has to sort of hold their collective noses while calling Xavier a quality opponent :).

reds1869
01-29-2011, 05:26 PM
I think UC is basically a lock at this point. I trhink they've done plenty to prove they're deserving (just making the Tournament isn't THAT high a bar afterall). If Xavier keeps playing the way they are, UC will be able to point to that as a very high quality OOC win (especially given the margin). Even if UC has to sort of hold their collective noses while calling Xavier a quality opponent :).

The way things are falling today, both Cincinnati teams could be in the Top 25 next week. I would never have imagined that earlier in the month.

paintmered
01-29-2011, 08:06 PM
Huggy Bear back in the Shoe. Big, big game for the Cats tonight.

Reds4Life
01-29-2011, 10:14 PM
Huggy Bear back in the Shoe. Big, big game for the Cats tonight.

And we layed another egg.

This team really annoys me sometimes, tonight is one of those times. They reverted back to the typical Cronin game plan, jack up tons of 3's. Did you see the consecutive air balls from Thomas and Dixon within 5 seconds of each other from behind the arch? They attempted 29 threes in this game. 29, and they made 8.

Oh, and nice to see Bishop with another wonderful productive night, going 1-9. :rolleyes:

Cedric
01-29-2011, 10:20 PM
And we layed another egg.

This team really annoys me sometimes, tonight is one of those times. They reverted back to the typical Cronin game plan, jack up tons of 3's. Did you see the consecutive air balls from Thomas and Dixon within 5 seconds of each other from behind the arch? They attempted 29 threes in this game. 29, and they made 8.

Oh, and nice to see Bishop with another wonderful productive night, going 1-9. :rolleyes:

UC is just very average this year. They can't score against any well coached, disciplined defense.

They should be 4-5 in the Big East and I know "should" doesn't mean much but that St Johns game was a joke win.

Orenda
01-29-2011, 11:31 PM
UC is just very average this year. They can't score against any well coached, disciplined defense.

They should be 4-5 in the Big East and I know "should" doesn't mean much but that St Johns game was a joke win.

yeah they are just going to be an inconsistent team offensively. I don't know what it is about balance, ball movement, movement without the ball, and floor spacing that Cronin doesn't like but I guess he has his reasons. It seems like a large percentage of the time their offense just consists of making a ball screen, throwing it around a little and then someone trying to make a play. I know defense and rebounding is Cronin's mo, but they are way too easy to guard at times.

Boston Red
02-05-2011, 06:33 PM
I thought Gates was finally coming into his own and was past doing silly things to get himself suspended. Guess not.

Roy Tucker
02-07-2011, 08:30 AM
http://www.nbebasketball.com/w3/2011-0205/mernagh-cronins-presser-steals-the-show/



Cronin: In him they should be disappointed in him. You watch all this stuff with college basketball today, this guy with twitter, this guy with that, itís gotten lost that it should be a privilege to play for Jamie Dixon at Pittsburgh or to get to play at Cincinnati the home of Oscar Robertson and that you should take that and make the most of it. Thereís too much in college basketball too many kids think theyíre doing everybody a favor by being around. What they donít realize but what you learn is if you donít wanna be around somebody else will take your spot. Just like myself you knowÖBob Knight got fired okayÖBob Huggins got fired you know everybodyís replaceable doesnít matter how good you are player coach itís a privilege and an honor to be a part of what weíre a part of and you need to have that attitude. Itís become what can you do for me instead of what can you do for the program? And Iím honored to be here and be a part of the program and thereís just too much of that and it teaches the wrong lessons to young people because the world doesnít revolve around us and we all know that, you know itís hard enough to find a job out there and I believe as the son of a high school coach my players are gonna be taught to have the right attitude, learn how to be a good person, the world doesnít revolve around you and I believe in those things and Iím always gonna believe in those things as long as Iím honored enough and privileged enough to be the coach at the University of Cincinnati. My players are gonna be taught that and theyíre gonna live up to that and their gonna have that attitude and if they donít then they donít get to be a part of our team. But thatís what I believe itís about and thereís just so much deterioration of players and disrespect of their players and of their coaches. I donít believe the squeaky wheel should get the oil. What bothers me is the story shouldnít be about Yancy Gates or whoever missed a game for Pitt, the story should be about the kids who do the right things, thatís who the story should be about. Thatís my problem with all that stuff.

paintmered
02-07-2011, 08:36 AM
Cronin: Nope I’m worried about the guys that are here I love the guys that are here. We don’t have a lot of team rules, play hard, have a great attitude, be a good guy, it’s not that hard to be a Bearcat. You either do it that way or you don’t play for us. Doesn’t matter who you are, does not matter who you are, you’re gonna play hard, you’re gonna be coachable and you’re gonna have a good attitude.

Q: Which one of the basic Bearcat rules did he violate?

Cronin: Probably all three, in my opinion.

Ouch. Is there any doubt that Gates has broken the first rule over his entire career?

Cyclone792
02-07-2011, 09:19 AM
Other than the Big East and/or NCAA Tourney, this is pretty much the worst time for Gates to act up and get himself suspended by not adhering to team rules.

UC did everything they could by taking care of their non-conference foes, albeit a weak crop, and they're sitting at 5-5 in the Big East with no bad losses and a decent road win at St. John's. Their overall SOS has climbed up to 93rd, and their overall RPI now puts them in the top 40.

And now comes precisely the time when UC needs to land a string of Big East wins and put themselves in position where they're firmly ahead of the bubble. The next four games has the 'cats at DePaul, then home against St. John's and Louisville, then back on the road at Providence. If they can get their act together and play well, those are really four games that they need to win to cement their status as a tourney team.

Additionally, they need to give themselves a cushion because their last four games (home and home with Georgetown, home against UConn and at Marquette) could be brutal.

Yancy Gates, meanwhile, needs to get his act together right now and do what he needs to do to get himself back on the squad. If that doesn't happen, though, I can see things starting to crumble real quickly.

Sea Ray
02-08-2011, 09:47 AM
Gates is making the trip to Chicago and he does sound contrite as he admits he screwed up:

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/uc/2011/02/07/gates-it-was-a-bad-situation-and-i-handled-it-wrong/

Mick has not announced that he'll play at DePaul but I would say that this won't be an extended suspension. He's already practicing with the team

paintmered
02-08-2011, 05:57 PM
I doubt Gates starts tonight but will see action. Gates and Cronin need each other if they want to keep their jobs moving forward.

I hope this is a proverbial wake-up call to Yancy. Motivation was always the question with him, even when he was in high school. It's held him back at UC thus far.

reds1869
02-08-2011, 09:43 PM
The end of game sequence was just terribly executed by the cats. Why in the world would you not just toss the ball out to half court, and why would you allow such a relatively clean look for the Depaul shooter on the final shot?

Boss-Hog
02-08-2011, 09:47 PM
The end of game sequence was just terribly executed by the cats. Why in the world would you not just toss the ball out to half court, and why would you allow such a relatively clean look for the Depaul shooter on the final shot?
That was as ugly a second half defensively as you'll ever see a UC team play. They played pretty well offensively all game (except Gates, who was absolutely brutal on both ends of the ball) but played probably their worst defensive game of the year. Couple that with the usual poor free throw shooting and some unbelievably bone-headed plays, like the out of bounds play you mentioned being just one of them, and they were very, very close to giving away a game they absolutely couldn't afford to lose.

All that being said, this time of year, I'll take any win we can get.

bucksfan2
02-09-2011, 08:53 AM
The end of game sequence was just terribly executed by the cats. Why in the world would you not just toss the ball out to half court, and why would you allow such a relatively clean look for the Depaul shooter on the final shot?

It is actually a smart idea just executed like a bunch of 3rd graders. Ironic that Rashad Bishop was the trigger man on that one !??!?!?!?!?!

What makes sense with the play is you still can catch and shoot with .4 seconds. The home run pass makes sense because a shot will not be attempted, especially if its a half court of 3/4 court because you need to catch, get your balance, and shoot. If a Bearcat got his hand on the ball the game was over. But the execution was poor, the ball should have not made it past half court (and their should have been a security valve back deeper as well).

What I would have done, especially if there was a man guarding the ball, is run the man inside the 3 point line then hand him the ball. There wouldn't be enough time to get behind the arc. But then again Rashad Bishop was the trigger man so who knows what would have happened.

Sea Ray
02-09-2011, 10:24 AM
The end of game sequence was just terribly executed by the cats. Why in the world would you not just toss the ball out to half court, and why would you allow such a relatively clean look for the Depaul shooter on the final shot?

I'd sure like to know how that happened myself. That's the only possible way they could have lost that game with .4s left. I was pissed

Sea Ray
02-09-2011, 10:27 AM
What I would have done, especially if there was a man guarding the ball, is run the man inside the 3 point line then hand him the ball. There wouldn't be enough time to get behind the arc. But then again Rashad Bishop was the trigger man so who knows what would have happened.

Excellent strategy. Too bad Mick couldn't think of that

dabvu2498
02-13-2011, 02:12 PM
Not really a UC fan, But I do root for all the loacl teams in conference play, and today was one of the 1st games I've gotten to sit down and watch. Boy, was that frustrating.

They played brilliantly in coming back, but then just didn't quite have enough winning plays left in the tank. And then that lane violation was bone-crushing.

They may end up winning a game or two they shouldn't and making the tourney, but if they don't, today is the day to remember as a big part of the reason why they didn't.

Cedric
02-13-2011, 02:16 PM
Yancy Gates is like Demarcus Cousins without any talent.

Did anyone see him basically refuse to enter the game and then yell with a teammate? Pure chaos at that point.

Boss-Hog
02-13-2011, 02:17 PM
Not really a UC fan, But I do root for all the loacl teams in conference play, and today was one of the 1st games I've gotten to sit down and watch. Boy, was that frustrating.

They played brilliantly in coming back, but then just didn't quite have enough winning plays left in the tank. And then that lane violation was bone-crushing.

They may end up winning a game or two they shouldn't and making the tourney, but if they don't, today is the day to remember as a big part of the reason why they didn't.
That was just a killer loss...as you mentioned, the lane violation was a critical play and a very dumb play on Bishop's part. Unfortunately, from watching this team all season long, it's not rare or surprising to see a player do something like that.

paintmered
02-13-2011, 03:00 PM
Yancy Gates is like Demarcus Cousins without any talent.

Did anyone see him basically refuse to enter the game and then yell with a teammate? Pure chaos at that point.

Yancy Gates does not deserve to wear the uniform. I don't say that lightly.

Reds4Life
02-13-2011, 03:01 PM
Yancy Gates does not deserve to wear the uniform. I don't say that lightly.

It's time for him to be dismissed from the program. He can go sit on his dads couch, play xbox, and smoke a lot of weed. It seems that's all he's interested in doing anyway.

Sea Ray
02-15-2011, 09:29 AM
It's time for him to be dismissed from the program. He can go sit on his dads couch, play xbox, and smoke a lot of weed. It seems that's all he's interested in doing anyway.

Yancy Gates doesn't seem to be smart enough to know he's blowing a lot of money by behaving like this. He had a chance to make some money playing this game.

texasdave
02-16-2011, 09:17 PM
Big win by the Bearcats tonight. Excellent intensity. If this team scores at all they should be competitive with anyone the way they play defense.

Cyclone792
02-16-2011, 09:29 PM
Huge win tonight and finally another signature win to really beef up the resume. That much being said, they absolutely have to win at Providence on Saturday too. Losing to Providence will pretty much cancel out tonight's win.

Sea Ray
02-16-2011, 10:25 PM
They played UC basketball tonight. Few turnovers, tough defense and they shot very wel from the field. On the post game show Pitino said that this game worried him more than any other on the schedule and that's saying something since they still have U Conn and Pitt left to play. He said UC had their backs up against the wall because if they lost tonight they'd be out of the NCAA tournament.

reds1869
02-17-2011, 09:26 AM
Very nice win last night. This city will be crazy in March if Xavier, UC, Ohio State and Kentucky are all in the tournament.

Boss-Hog
02-17-2011, 09:33 AM
Last night was a big win and a great atmosphere at Fifth Third. Now, we HAVE to take care of business winning at both Providence and Marquette and stealing one of three out of Georgetown (twice) and UConn. If that happens, we should be in pretty good shape heading into the Big East tournament.

texasdave
02-19-2011, 09:22 PM
Bearcats play well for the first 35 minutes and then shut it down early. Luckily, Providence misses a shot at the end of regulation that could have won it for the Friars. Bearcats regroup in OT and pull away with the victory. In the end a win is a win.

Orenda
02-19-2011, 09:37 PM
Bearcats play well for the first 35 minutes and then shut it down early. Luckily, Providence misses a shot at the end of regulation that could have won it for the Friars. Bearcats regroup in OT and pull away with the victory. In the end a win is a win.

yeah they were lucky to get the win after dominating most of the game. They must have given up 8-10 points late on careless passes.

I thought it was weird Kilpatrick didn't play more, he only logged 13 minutes tonight (8points on 3/4 shooting). I think he gives the bearcats a better chance to win than Larry Davis.

LoganBuck
02-19-2011, 10:57 PM
yeah they were lucky to get the win after dominating most of the game. They must have given up 8-10 points late on careless passes.

I thought it was weird Kilpatrick didn't play more, he only logged 13 minutes tonight (8points on 3/4 shooting). I think he gives the bearcats a better chance to win than Larry Davis.

Kilpatrick is only good for scoring. During the first half Bishop and Dixon were scoring, so Mick could keep more defense on the floor without SK. Kilpatrick nearly gives up as much on defense as he is worth on offense.

Reds4Life
02-20-2011, 10:44 AM
Kilpatrick is only good for scoring. During the first half Bishop and Dixon were scoring, so Mick could keep more defense on the floor without SK. Kilpatrick nearly gives up as much on defense as he is worth on offense.

True, but he's a freshman. He will learn how to play defense at this level. This team needs all the scoring it can get, considering how many times this team goes on streaks where they couldn't hit water falling out of a boat.

LoganBuck
02-20-2011, 12:20 PM
True, but he's a freshman. He will learn how to play defense at this level. This team needs all the scoring it can get, considering how many times this team goes on streaks where they couldn't hit water falling out of a boat.

I guess my point was, during the first half who would you have sat, to get SK in there, given how the five on the floor were playing?

Orenda
02-20-2011, 01:11 PM
I guess my point was, during the first half who would you have sat, to get SK in there, given how the five on the floor were playing?

I don't see why he can't be in with Bishop.

I haven't watched all of UC's games so you might be right about his defense but against UL he looked pretty competent on defense. I also think Justin Jackson gives UC better minutes than Darnell Wilks.

LoganBuck
02-20-2011, 10:19 PM
I don't see why he can't be in with Bishop.

I haven't watched all of UC's games so you might be right about his defense but against UL he looked pretty competent on defense. I also think Justin Jackson gives UC better minutes than Darnell Wilks.

I agree, but Dixon was hot in the first half. That is why I wasn't to worried about SK's minutes in the first half. He gets lost on defense too often. I rarely watch the games, but I listen to nearly all of them. Chuck Machock is typically groaning about Kilpatrick on defense.

I agree 100% on Justin Jackson versus Darnell Wilks. Wilks strikes me as a player getting minutes at this point in the season, only because he is a senior.

nmculbreth
02-22-2011, 06:06 PM
As an aside, I've been really impressed by the minutes that the Bearcats have gotten from Kilpatrick and Justin Jackson this season.

While it's not exactly an apples-to-apples comparison, SK has provided the kind of production that I was hoping the Cats would get from Lance Stephenson last season. After watching Lance last season and SK this season, I'd swear that SK was the blue chip recruit. He's such a great scorer and as time goes on I think he'll become a much more competent defender. I think he really has the potential to go down as one of the all time great Bearcats.

In regards to this season, I think if UC is able to win one of the final four games and win in the first round of the Big East tournament that they'll pretty much be a lock for the tournament. Their OOC SoS is atrocious but they've got quality wins over Xavier, Louisville and St. Johns and no bad losses, which is more than I can say for some of the current bubble teams. If they could somehow manage to get a win over Georgetown or UConn, I think they'd be a lock regardless to what happens in the BE tournament.

texasdave
02-23-2011, 10:30 PM
Bearcats up by 14 with 9 1/2 minutes to go at #11 Georgetown.
4:52 to play 'Cats up by 13. Georgetown has scored six points in the second half so far.
1:45 UC leading 51-42. Gates with 16 and 9 tonight.

paintmered
02-23-2011, 10:56 PM
:jump::jump::jump::jump::jump:

Brutus
02-23-2011, 10:58 PM
Good win for Cincinnati. I didn't think they'd have it in them, but back-to-back wins against Louisville and Georgetown and still have avoided any bad losses. They're in great shape now, but have to keep focus for seeding.

Yancy Gates definitely stepped up big this evening. I'm still uncertain of Cincinnati's ability to score consistently, but they are playing really inspired defensively.

texasdave
02-23-2011, 10:58 PM
:jump::jump::jump::jump::jump:

Someone is going dancing this year. Yes!

paintmered
02-23-2011, 11:00 PM
One helluva defensive effort for 40 minutes. Just awesome stuff.

Orenda
02-23-2011, 11:08 PM
One helluva defensive effort for 40 minutes. Just awesome stuff.

Nice game plan by Cronin also. Georgetown struggled against that zone and press.

nmculbreth
02-23-2011, 11:19 PM
I was really impressed with the effort tonight, they played hard for 40 minutes and certainly looked liked like the more motivated team. It's particularly nice to see to see Yancy playing hard because his inconsistent motor is really the only thing keeping him from being a dominant player.

IMHO, they're in after tonight's win. If they're able to take care of business against Marquette and get a win or two in the BE tournament they should be sitting pretty come selection Sunday.

paintmered
02-23-2011, 11:22 PM
Oh by the way, UC will finish above .500 in the Big East.

Edit: check that, this was win #9 and not win #10. I got a little ahead of myself.

jredmo2
02-23-2011, 11:45 PM
Great gameplan by Mick. This team really smells blood on defense; it seems like they really respond to scouting report gameplanning. Tonight and against Louisville they were very impressive defensively. Now let's eliminate those 3-5 worthless offensive possessions per game and make some FTs. Then UC is really dangerous.

Matt700wlw
02-24-2011, 01:54 AM
Kudos to Mick

- For handling Yancy Gates, and pushing whatever buttons he pushed

- For leading this team to 3 in a row, 2 on the road, and 2 against the top 20 after most, including myself, left them for dead after the St. John's disaster.

- For leading this team to it's first win on the road against a ranked team in 7 years (who also happened to be the #2 FG % team in the country and #5 in the RPI), by double digits.

- For leading this team to what looks like it's first NCAA Tournament appearance since Huggins' last year (even though Kennedy got screwed in his only year).



Don't let up, Cats...with 3 games left, there is still opportunity to turn more heads, and improve that resume. As it stands now, they will have a FIRST ROUND BYE in the Big East Tournament!

Cyclone792
02-24-2011, 06:23 AM
Biggest win in six years! I gave UC virtually no chance to win last night, but they went out and played one heck of a defensive game, forced some turnovers and allowed their defense to get them several easy offensive buckets.

I have to give Cronin credit for getting this team back on track the last three gamse too. The home loss to St. John's looked at the time like it could have been the beginning of the bad slide, but the impressive win against Louisville, hanging on to beat Providence and now handling Georgetown on the road have the Cats looking great for Selection Sunday.

bucksfan2
02-24-2011, 08:21 AM
Picture this if you will. UC plays one heck of a basketball game. They have Georgetown on the ropes and decides to kill the clock with about 6 minutes left. The strategy is working because UC's D and Georgetown's O just isn't working. GT goes on a little run to cut a 12 point lead to 8, UC has the ball and the shot clock is running down. Then my least favorite UC player since Field Williams, Rashad Bishop decides with 6 seconds on the shot clock to pull the ball out to around mid court. Instead of attacking from the top of the key he pulls the ball out! He dribbles around the arc and throws up a beyond NBA range 3 and banks it in! I almost fell out of my rocker on that possession. It was the nail in the coffin and probably the shot that secured UC's NCAA dreams.

I give Mick credit because he coached a great game. The zone (I hate zones) was effective and the press was top notch. The zone did effect the rebounding but that is to be understood. I did find it comical that on an inbound pass when Wright in bounded it to the open man, Justin Jackson, Mick called Wright over and yelled at him. First of all Mick it was a dead ball situation so you should have removed Jackson. Then you could have inserted him on the foul to put his defense and energy in the game. Don't yell at Wright when it was a coaching error.

NorrisHopper30
02-26-2011, 04:19 AM
Picture this if you will. UC plays one heck of a basketball game. They have Georgetown on the ropes and decides to kill the clock with about 6 minutes left. The strategy is working because UC's D and Georgetown's O just isn't working. GT goes on a little run to cut a 12 point lead to 8, UC has the ball and the shot clock is running down. Then my least favorite UC player since Field Williams, Rashad Bishop decides with 6 seconds on the shot clock to pull the ball out to around mid court. Instead of attacking from the top of the key he pulls the ball out! He dribbles around the arc and throws up a beyond NBA range 3 and banks it in! I almost fell out of my rocker on that possession. It was the nail in the coffin and probably the shot that secured UC's NCAA dreams.

I give Mick credit because he coached a great game. The zone (I hate zones) was effective and the press was top notch. The zone did effect the rebounding but that is to be understood. I did find it comical that on an inbound pass when Wright in bounded it to the open man, Justin Jackson, Mick called Wright over and yelled at him. First of all Mick it was a dead ball situation so you should have removed Jackson. Then you could have inserted him on the foul to put his defense and energy in the game. Don't yell at Wright when it was a coaching error.

Might see some more zone tomorrow. Just curious, why do you not like Bishop? His defense has been incredible.

Matt700wlw
02-27-2011, 02:42 PM
Unfortunate that they came out sloppy and flat today.

I'm glad they're in a situation where this wasn't must win territory. They're still in a great position.

LoganBuck
02-27-2011, 05:09 PM
The UC big men have the worst hands as a group as I have ever seen. This has gone on all year. Squeeze the ball.

bucksfan2
02-28-2011, 08:37 AM
Might see some more zone tomorrow. Just curious, why do you not like Bishop? His defense has been incredible.

His D is good don't get me wrong. But at time on offense becomes a problem. He has never really bought into his role in the offense. He isn't a 3 point shooter or a go to guy on the offense but he forces himself into those roles. Often times when he isn't scoring he just stands at the elbow and calls for the ball. He makes boneheaded decisions all the time on the offensive end of the court. And when he and Cash are on the court at the same time they both want to direct the offense and both stand around the top of the key. He is often a detriment on offense when he isn't putting the ball in the hole.

The problem with defensive players is they need to buy into their role on the offense. Just look at a guy like David Lighty who is very good on the defensive end but knows his role on the offense. He knows that he is a slasher and in a half court offense the ball goes through Diebler, Sullinger, and Bufford. And if he does attempt to score he is a slasher and gets to the rim. There is no reason Bishop can't be a very good offensive player, he just doesn't buy into what his role is.

texasdave
03-02-2011, 09:38 PM
Bearcats trying to eke one out over Marquette. Up by nine with seven minutes to play.

Reds
03-02-2011, 09:58 PM
http://www.willyoudancewithme.us/images/silhouettedance.jpg

paintmered
03-02-2011, 09:58 PM
:jump::jump::jump::jump::jump::jump::jump::jump:

texasdave
03-02-2011, 09:59 PM
Final: UC 67 Marquette 60. At least 10 wins in conference and an invitation to the dance!!

Cyclone792
03-02-2011, 10:02 PM
We're a lock for the tournament now. The UConn loss was rough to watch, but it seems that they knew what they had to do to rebound and pick up another fantastic win.

By the way, had to watch the game on ESPN3.com tonight. One interesting thing is you hear a lot more on court communication between the players. UC talks to each other on the court during plays very well, switching up on defense and generally communicating very well. That's a reflection on the coaching, IMO, and should only help the team further improve.

Reds
03-02-2011, 10:03 PM
Another win would drastically improve seeding I would think though. (b/f the big east tourney)

Boss-Hog
03-02-2011, 10:04 PM
Huge win tonight...couldn't be happier about all but locking up an NCAA bid. I'd love to see them beat Georgetown a second time at home and clinch a bye in the Big East tournament.

Matt700wlw
03-02-2011, 10:24 PM
Man, this feels good.

UC is back in the dance, and X is there too....the NCAA Tourney is represented by Cincinnati hoops again.... and the Reds are about to defend an NL Central championship.

Suddenly, it's not so bad to be a Cincy sports fan!

Boss-Hog
03-02-2011, 10:57 PM
UC is back in the dance, and X is there too....the NCAA Tourney is represented by Cincinnati hoops again.... and the Reds are about to defend an NL Central championship.

Suddenly, it's not so bad to be a Cincy sports fan!
Yeah, so long as you leave out that "other" team. :)

Matt700wlw
03-02-2011, 11:10 PM
Yeah, so long as you leave out that "other" team. :)

Oh yeah, those guys :p:

NorrisHopper30
03-03-2011, 03:06 AM
Dancin'!

bucksfan2
03-03-2011, 08:40 AM
Huge win tonight...couldn't be happier about all but locking up an NCAA bid. I'd love to see them beat Georgetown a second time at home and clinch a bye in the Big East tournament.

The most important thing about getting a by in the Big East Tournament could be that they shouldn't have a "bad loss" on their record. That was key if they were to be a bubble team but could be a help in the seeding.

If they beat Georgetown, and thats a big if, and maybe win a game in the Big East tourney they may be able to secure around a 5 seed. It would be huge to get better than a 7 seed. You don't want to match up with a one or two seed in round 2.

Orenda
03-03-2011, 10:17 AM
nice win, that won't grab the attention of most people but winning at Marquette against a good team fighting to make the tourny is a big win.

Boss-Hog
03-03-2011, 10:27 AM
Completely agreed...


The most important thing about getting a by in the Big East Tournament could be that they shouldn't have a "bad loss" on their record. That was key if they were to be a bubble team but could be a help in the seeding.

If they beat Georgetown, and thats a big if, and maybe win a game in the Big East tourney they may be able to secure around a 5 seed. It would be huge to get better than a 7 seed. You don't want to match up with a one or two seed in round 2.

Cyclone792
03-03-2011, 12:01 PM
The most important thing about getting a by in the Big East Tournament could be that they shouldn't have a "bad loss" on their record. That was key if they were to be a bubble team but could be a help in the seeding.

If they beat Georgetown, and thats a big if, and maybe win a game in the Big East tourney they may be able to secure around a 5 seed. It would be huge to get better than a 7 seed. You don't want to match up with a one or two seed in round 2.

This is all on point. My target right now is pretty much this:

Two more good wins and no bad loss in the BE Tourney: 5 seed
One more good win and no bad loss in the BE Tourney: 6 seed
No more good wins and no bad loss in the BE Tourney: 7 seed
No more good wins and a bad loss in the BE Tourney: 8/9 seed

Of course, if UC goes out and wins the BE Tourney or reaches the finals, then they could jump higher than a 5 seed. But realistically speaking, that's a bit of a stretch (but one I'll be rooting for obviously nonetheless).

bucksfan2
03-03-2011, 12:26 PM
This is all on point. My target right now is pretty much this:

Two more good wins and no bad loss in the BE Tourney: 5 seed
One more good win and no bad loss in the BE Tourney: 6 seed
No more good wins and no bad loss in the BE Tourney: 7 seed
No more good wins and a bad loss in the BE Tourney: 8/9 seed

Of course, if UC goes out and wins the BE Tourney or reaches the finals, then they could jump higher than a 5 seed. But realistically speaking, that's a bit of a stretch (but one I'll be rooting for obviously nonetheless).

Seems like a pretty good synopsis. The thing I have noticed in the past is the committee doesn't put as much weight in the tournament as fans do. To be honest if you have a nice seed secured then it may be beneficial to lose early in the tournament. I would love to see OSU beat Wisconsin and then lose early in the Big Ten tourney. You would get a lot of rest. It would be nice to see UC go far but you have to ask, whats the cost?

Roy Tucker
03-03-2011, 02:24 PM
I'd rather the NCAA seeding be for the body of work for an entire season rather than getting hot for a 2-4 day tournament.

Sea Ray
03-03-2011, 03:40 PM
What's the TV situation for the Georgetown game? Hopefully better than last night

SeeinRed
03-03-2011, 03:48 PM
Seems like a pretty good synopsis. The thing I have noticed in the past is the committee doesn't put as much weight in the tournament as fans do. To be honest if you have a nice seed secured then it may be beneficial to lose early in the tournament. I would love to see OSU beat Wisconsin and then lose early in the Big Ten tourney. You would get a lot of rest. It would be nice to see UC go far but you have to ask, whats the cost?

At this point for UC, I don't think there is anything to lose. You are already in the tournament for all intents and purposes. OSU has a legit shot at winning it all. UC really doesn't. In their case, I think UC could gain a lot of momentum going into next season with a strong showing in the BE tourney. Sure, they will probably duck out of the NCAAs in round two or three if they are lucky, but having the extra rest really isn't going to change UC's fortune most likely. Sure, UC is a long shot to win the BE tourney, but if they get to the finals I'm not going to sweat having less rest than if they would have lost early in the BE tourney.

SeeinRed
03-03-2011, 03:52 PM
What's the TV situation for the Georgetown game? Hopefully better than last night


Saturday's game is listed as a Big East Network game on Local 12 here in Cincy. I'm not sure about anywhere else, but usually that means it gets pushed to an alternative chanel here in Cincinnati. In fact, I can't think of one game listed on the website as being on Local 12 that was actually broadcast on 12. Usually it ends up on The CW. Hopefully the TV rights work out better in the future now that UC is playing better basketball, but they must continue to win year in and year out.

Sea Ray
03-03-2011, 03:55 PM
Saturday's game is listed as a Big East Network game on Local 12 here in Cincy. I'm not sure about anywhere else, but usually that means it gets pushed to an alternative chanel here in Cincinnati. In fact, I can't think of one game listed on the website as being on Local 12 that was actually broadcast on 12. Usually it ends up on The CW. Hopefully the TV rights work out better in the future now that UC is playing better basketball, but they must continue to win year in and year out.

Oh well. I'm going to be out of town so I guess that means "fat chance" of seeing it live. Thanks for the quick response!

SeeinRed
03-03-2011, 04:00 PM
Oh well. I'm going to be out of town so I guess that means "fat chance" of seeing it live. Thanks for the quick response!

Well, it will also be on ESPN3 if that helps. Other than that, you are probably out of luck unfortunately.

texasdave
03-05-2011, 04:37 PM
Bearcats finish up the regular season with a 69-47 thumping of Georgetown. They finish the regular season at 24-7 (11-7 in the Big East). Even with a cupcake pre-conference schedule I never had them pegged for 24 wins and a first-round bye in the BE Tournament. Hats off to the team.

SeeinRed
03-05-2011, 05:23 PM
Bearcats finish up the regular season with a 69-47 thumping of Georgetown. They finish the regular season at 24-7 (11-7 in the Big East). Even with a cupcake pre-conference schedule I never had them pegged for 24 wins and a first-round bye in the BE Tournament. Hats off to the team.

Great season for the Cats! They exceeded my expectations to be sure. There will be no sweating it on Selection Sunday. What a great effort from the guys today. I'm absolutely thrilled with this team right now.

This team is a Tournament team, and that feels good to say for the first time in a long time.

Matt700wlw
03-05-2011, 05:49 PM
Hell of a job, Cats!

Hell of a job, Mick!


Let's ride this and see where it goes!

NorrisHopper30
03-05-2011, 06:03 PM
Thank you seniors!

Redsfaithful
03-05-2011, 06:11 PM
Congrats to UC. I'd enjoy seeing them make a deep run in the tournament (assuming they don't play Ohio State).

dougdirt
03-05-2011, 07:09 PM
Great season for the Cats! They exceeded my expectations to be sure. There will be no sweating it on Selection Sunday. What a great effort from the guys today. I'm absolutely thrilled with this team right now.

This team is a Tournament team, and that feels good to say for the first time in a long time.

Speak for yourself.... I am still sweating us getting an 8 seed and having to face a #1 in round #2.

nmculbreth
03-05-2011, 07:54 PM
Thank you seniors!

This cannot be said enough. While some of them haven't developed as I'd have hoped, I will forever be appreciative of what they did for this program. They took a leap of faith coming to a program in complete disarry and were a huge part of bringing the program back to respectability.

It's really nice to be back to playing meaningful basketball in March!

NorrisHopper30
03-06-2011, 01:15 AM
This cannot be said enough. While some of them haven't developed as I'd have hoped, I will forever be appreciative of what they did for this program. They took a leap of faith coming to a program in complete disarry and were a huge part of bringing the program back to respectability.

It's really nice to be back to playing meaningful basketball in March!

They lost to Belmont in their first game as Bearcats....that's how far they came. Ridiculous how much has changed.

Caveat Emperor
03-06-2011, 03:22 AM
Speak for yourself.... I am still sweating us getting an 8 seed and having to face a #1 in round #2.

Lunardi had them as a 7 before they throttled Georgetown today.

Even if they get dumped in their first BE Tournament game, I can't see the Bearcats doing worse than a 7. The goal they need to be shooting for right now is winning a game or two next week and locking up a 6 seed. I don't think this team is good enough to win a conference championship, but their run in the NCAAs would be aided greatly if they can avoid facing a 1 or 2 in the second round.

Redlegs23
03-06-2011, 05:10 PM
They will likely face Nova in the tournament. I actually like this matchup with the way Nova is playing, especially since we won't have to play them in their tiny gym. Win that and we will play Notre Dame I believe. If we win those two games we could be looking at a 5 seed.

NorrisHopper30
03-07-2011, 01:22 AM
They will likely face Nova in the tournament. I actually like this matchup with the way Nova is playing, especially since we won't have to play them in their tiny gym. Win that and we will play Notre Dame I believe. If we win those two games we could be looking at a 5 seed.

ND will be playing for a 1 seed and is currently a 2 seed...I think there's a chance if we beat Nova and ND on primetime espn back to back nights that we could jump to a 4 seed..we're talking about a 26-7 team with 7 top 25 rpi wins if that happens. The media hasn't really seen this team play, they just ripped on our OOC and haven't forgiven us yet, with a good showing on ESPN I think things would not only flip around but drastically.

dougdirt
03-07-2011, 04:09 AM
Lunardi had them as a 7 before they throttled Georgetown today.

Even if they get dumped in their first BE Tournament game, I can't see the Bearcats doing worse than a 7. The goal they need to be shooting for right now is winning a game or two next week and locking up a 6 seed. I don't think this team is good enough to win a conference championship, but their run in the NCAAs would be aided greatly if they can avoid facing a 1 or 2 in the second round.

Maybe its just me, but the selection committee seems to find ways to make me hate our seeds every year. Until I see a seed, I have no faith in them to get it right.

jredmo2
03-07-2011, 12:26 PM
Maybe its just me, but the selection committee seems to find ways to make me hate our seeds every year. Until I see a seed, I have no faith in them to get it right.

I'm with you. I fear an 8 seed. But I'm trying to keep in mind that in the last five years I would have been jumping for joy just to have this discussion. And, if UC does get an 8 seed, let's hope they get lined up to play a team they'd really relish taking down (**AHEM** tOSU).

NorrisHopper30
03-08-2011, 05:34 PM
No way UC gets an 8 seed. 7 seed minimum.

Sea Ray
03-09-2011, 02:30 PM
UC fans have to be happy about South Florida knocking off Villanova. What happened to Villanova? We've seen similar finishes in this city, unfortunately

nmculbreth
03-09-2011, 06:21 PM
UC fans have to be happy about South Florida knocking off Villanova. What happened to Villanova? We've seen similar finishes in this city, unfortunately

To be honest, I'd rather face Villanova.

A win over USF will likely do very little for UC's seeding in the NCAA tournament and a loss would be without a doubt UC's worst of the season. Even with Villanova tanking down the stretch, a win over them may have been enough to move UC up another spot.

BearcatShane
03-09-2011, 06:55 PM
Well it does improve our likilihood in winning tonight and I want a matchup with Notre Dame tomorrow.

SeeinRed
03-09-2011, 09:00 PM
Impressive showing by UC tonight. Gates was a monster. Lets hope that trend continues.

jredmo2
03-09-2011, 10:52 PM
I'm interested to see what defensive gameplan Mick goes with against ND. UC has really been excelling when they mix in zones a lot. Against UConn I think they played strictly man, and UConn shot lights out that game.

Now, this is all a little counter-intuitive to the whole "zone-buster" mentality. Against Louisville, a good 3 pt shooting team, I think UC ran a 2-2-1 press into a 3-2 zone almost exclusively (I could be wrong, it was a while ago). Against Georgetown and Marquette (both good shooting teams) they've run a lot of zones and shut down their outside shooting.

So, I guess my point is that Mick doesn't abandon the zone against ND just because they are so good at 3 point shooting. It's a really aggressive zone UC plays -- I'm impressed at how well they extend it and disrupt perimeter passing, and the rotations have been excellent.

NorrisHopper30
03-10-2011, 02:35 AM
I'm interested to see what defensive gameplan Mick goes with against ND. UC has really been excelling when they mix in zones a lot. Against UConn I think they played strictly man, and UConn shot lights out that game.

Now, this is all a little counter-intuitive to the whole "zone-buster" mentality. Against Louisville, a good 3 pt shooting team, I think UC ran a 2-2-1 press into a 3-2 zone almost exclusively (I could be wrong, it was a while ago). Against Georgetown and Marquette (both good shooting teams) they've run a lot of zones and shut down their outside shooting.

So, I guess my point is that Mick doesn't abandon the zone against ND just because they are so good at 3 point shooting. It's a really aggressive zone UC plays -- I'm impressed at how well they extend it and disrupt perimeter passing, and the rotations have been excellent.

Expect a lot of the press into man to man. We didn't press much first time around, but it's coming tomorrow and it's coming in a big way IMO. ND thrives in the walk up the court then run your play offense, if we can disturb that (they don't really have an exceptional ball handler - but most are capable) and limit their offensive possessions to 25 seconds - maybe they'll take bad shots. We have to rebound, and we have to not fall behind by 20 like we did last time.

The tricky part is, they can respond well to pressure, and everyone on their team hits open threes. They are all experienced and can pass to the open man with no problem, so it's going to have to be a good press and we have to get back quickly.

I think the Cats win 67-62...I have a good feeling, we have a lot of confidence and I think the D steps up.

acredsfan
03-10-2011, 03:03 AM
The problem with the press against ND earlier this season is that every one of their starting five can handle the ball. When UC implemented the press last time their big men just took the ball up the floor. It would seem that a zone press would be fine since UC's big men would just be responsible for staying back, but the fact that the press wasn't successful against ND earlier this season makes me wonder if they'll use it much here. I would personally consider using a 3/4 court press so you can still slow them down and trap around the half line, but you don't get caught out of position and allow easy buckets. One thing that UC has going for them is they have found an identity on offense that they were lacking earlier in the season.

It should be a good game, and I'm actually confident that they will play with intensity which was also inconsistent early in the season. I don't remember seeing a team mature so much during the course of the season, and they put everything together at the right time. I've got to give credit to Mick and the team for their hard work. It's really been a fun season to watch. It seems like it's been a long time since we've been able to have such a meaningful discussion about the Bearcats this late in the season.

bucksfan2
03-10-2011, 09:09 AM
Zone. Mick Zoned a similar Georgetown earlier this season. UC will need to guard late into the shot clock and rebound very will in order to beat ND.

Boston Red
03-10-2011, 09:11 PM
Notre Dame wasn't messing around.

Cedric
03-10-2011, 10:14 PM
Expect a lot of the press into man to man. We didn't press much first time around, but it's coming tomorrow and it's coming in a big way IMO. ND thrives in the walk up the court then run your play offense, if we can disturb that (they don't really have an exceptional ball handler - but most are capable) and limit their offensive possessions to 25 seconds - maybe they'll take bad shots. We have to rebound, and we have to not fall behind by 20 like we did last time.

The tricky part is, they can respond well to pressure, and everyone on their team hits open threes. They are all experienced and can pass to the open man with no problem, so it's going to have to be a good press and we have to get back quickly.

I think the Cats win 67-62...I have a good feeling, we have a lot of confidence and I think the D steps up.

UC will never beat an intelligent team that moves the ball. UC relies on beating physical teams with low basketball IQ.

Caveat Emperor
03-11-2011, 12:21 AM
Notre Dame plays offense like a mid-major -- bunch of guys who can't create their own shot all hustling without the basketball and making the extra pass to get the wide open look. Big difference, though, is that they make their open looks more often than not.

I keep waiting for them to have a night where everyone goes cold and the team shuts down without anyone other than Hansbrough who can create off the dribble, but it hasn't happened yet.

No worries. Rest up for the dance

SeeinRed
03-11-2011, 02:22 AM
UC will never beat an intelligent team that moves the ball. UC relies on beating physical teams with low basketball IQ.

Losing to ND in such a dominant way was dissapointing, but this statement isn't even close to true. You don't get to 24-7 in regular season by just beating teams with a low basketball IQ. Sorry, thats just hyperbole.

bucksfan2
03-11-2011, 09:13 AM
Notre Dame plays offense like a mid-major -- bunch of guys who can't create their own shot all hustling without the basketball and making the extra pass to get the wide open look. Big difference, though, is that they make their open looks more often than not.

I keep waiting for them to have a night where everyone goes cold and the team shuts down without anyone other than Hansbrough who can create off the dribble, but it hasn't happened yet.

No worries. Rest up for the dance

I couldn't have said it better about ND. They are a very good team when they are able to dictate the style of play. You can't fall behind early to them. When UC fell behind by 10 early it allowed ND dictate the play of the game, shoot when they wanted to shoot, and make the extra pass to get open looks.

In order to beat ND you have get a lead and make ND press on offense. Take them out of their comfort level. Its why I don't see them making a deep run in the tournament because I don't think they can stay hot for 6 games in a row and think they will face some major problems if they don't make their shots. But I have said that all year long.

jredmo2
03-11-2011, 10:15 AM
UC will never beat an intelligent team that moves the ball. UC relies on beating physical teams with low basketball IQ.

Hmmmm.... "intelligent" teams like ND? As opposed to "physical teams with low basketball IQ."


YouTube - Announcer Code Words (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OjF_At3BKQ&feature=player_embedded)

Orenda
03-11-2011, 12:37 PM
Hmmmm.... "intelligent" teams like ND? As opposed to "physical teams with low basketball IQ."


YouTube - Announcer Code Words (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OjF_At3BKQ&feature=player_embedded)

I don't think UC was able to walk the line between aggressiveness and stupidity last night. If you are going to press at some point you have to be smart enough to know when it's not working. It was as if UC had no respect for Ben Hansborough since they were trying to hound him in the back-court and he would just blow by them which compromised everything defensively. How many wide open looks did they give up because somebody got broke down defensively and the rest of the team had to recover. That's basketball 101 and ND taught the class last night.

By trying to get really close and tight to the offensive player you make yourself more susceptible to picking up fouls and you make that player considerably quicker IMO.

And before you try to make this a black/white thing, whose gameplan was it? Who stuck with the same losing gameplan all night? What color skin does that person have?

Roy Tucker
03-11-2011, 12:50 PM
UC picked a lousy time to play their worst game of the year on prime-time ESPN. Poorly played, poorly coached, and they also gave up. Oh well.

ND is a fun team to watch. Scott really makes that team.