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757690
11-15-2010, 07:47 PM
1 Year $3M.

Seems too much to me, but it's not my money.

I see a big drop off from last season for Razor Ramon, and not even needed once Meseraco arrives.

Reds Re-Sign Ramon Hernadez (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/11/reds-re-sign-ramon-hernandez.html)

Krawhitham
11-15-2010, 08:02 PM
1 Year $3M.

Seems too much to me, but it's not my money.

I see a big drop off from last season for Razor Ramon, and not even needed once Meseraco arrives.

Reds Re-Sign Ramon Hernadez (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/11/reds-re-sign-ramon-hernandez.html)

If Meseraco can hit in the majors, Razor will be traded in July just like Molina was this season to make room for Posey

davereds24
11-15-2010, 08:05 PM
Seems high to me too, but in reality 3M isn't much even for a backup these days. Hopefully Hanigan will get 4 of every 7 starts with Ramon getting the other 3.

DocRed
11-15-2010, 08:07 PM
Basicaly agree.....Ramon was a great clutch hitter but even so, $3 million for a platoon catcher whose game calling is questionable is a bit much to me. I would have been ok with $2 million or so.

HalMorrisRules
11-15-2010, 08:19 PM
Did you guys see the list of available catchers through free agency? It was pathetic and Ramon was near the top and would have been highly sought after. 3 million might actually be a good deal for a catcher this offseason.

Kingspoint
11-15-2010, 08:21 PM
Needed to be done.

Glad to get it out of the way early.

Hanigan should get 3 out of 5 starts with Ramon getting 2 out of 5 starts.

Baker doesn't like to give any of these Catchers 3 games in a row. Schedule will dictate more of the platoon.

BLEEDS
11-15-2010, 08:48 PM
DANG! Now I guess Hanigan can lead off and Hernandez can play 1B and we can move Alonso to LF full-time after we trade that greedy Votto for some awesome pitcher like Dan Qualls or Brandon Lyon...

SWEET!

/all of SunDeck circa 2010 projections for Hanigan and Alonso and Votto...

mroby85
11-15-2010, 08:58 PM
I don't hate this deal. Its only 1 year, and i'm not sure Hanigan can be an every day catcher without wearing down. It's a low risk deal in my opinion, and they were a solid combo this year.

Eric the Red
11-15-2010, 09:30 PM
I'm fine with the deal. Hernandez has a good rapport with the latin pitchers and with more expected from Aroldis in 2011 hopefully Ramon can ease his progression. He also has a good approach at the plate and is able work the count fouling off pitches.

CySeymour
11-15-2010, 10:38 PM
Not a bad move. The catching corp was good this year, and should be somewhat similar in 2011, or until Mes is ready to take Ramon's spot.

Vottomatic
11-15-2010, 10:46 PM
Kinda shocked people are dissing this move.

The catching tandem of Hernandez/Hanigan is a very good thing. Keeps both of them fresh. I think everyone knows that if Mez steps up, this will be Hernandez's last season with the Reds. But he has been a valuable cog, along with Hanigan.

I expected this move and like this move for the short term.

Pete4prez
11-15-2010, 11:12 PM
Thyis is a good sign, Ramon will be a good gate keeper untill Maesraco is ready.

TheBigLebowski
11-16-2010, 12:27 AM
I see no downside. 3 MIL in this market for a good catcher is a steal. Mez is no sure-shot to be ready next year and, if he is, Razor is a very trade-able commodity at that price. No downside here.

Natty Redlocks
11-16-2010, 12:51 AM
I see some downside:


Cordero

Hanigan 30.2 IP, 2.05 ERA
Hernandez 29.1 IP, 6.44 ERA
Miller 12.2 IP, 2.13 ERA

Masset

Hanigan 25.2 IP, 0.70 ERA
Hernandez 42.2 IP, 5.27 ERA
Miller 8.1 IP, 2.16 ERA

Ondrusek

Hanigan 15.2 IP, 4.02 ERA
Hernandez 32.2 IP, 4.41 ERA
Miller 10.1 IP 0.87 ERA


Smith

Hanigan 10.2 IP, 2.53 ERA
Hernandez 20.1 IP, 4.43 ERA
Miller 11.0 IP, 3.27 ERA

Harang

Hanigan 42.0 IP, 4.07 ERA
Hernandez 56.2 IP, 6.99 ERA
Miller 13.0 IP, 2.08 ERA

Bailey

Hanigan 83.1 IP, 3.24 ERA
Hernandez 25.2 IP, 8.42 ERA


Wood

Hanigan 33.1 IP, 2.43 ERA
Hernandez 51.2 IP, 4.35 ERA
Miller 17.2 IP, 3.06 ERA

Leake

Hanigan 20.1 IP, 5.31 ERA
Hernandez 103.2 IP, 3.99 ERA
Miller 14.1 IP, 4.40 ERA

Volquez

Hanigan 8.1 IP, 7.56 ERA
Hernandez 54.1 IP, 3.81 ERA

LeCure

Hanigan 11.0 IP, 1.64 ERA
Hernandez 29.2 IP, 5.46 ERA
Miller 7.1 IP, 4.91 ERA

Cueto

Hanigan 6.0 IP, 3.00 ERA
Hernandez 160.0 IP, 3.94 ERA
Miller 19.2 IP, 1.37 ERA

Arroyo

Hanigan 162.1 IP, 3.94 ERA
Hernandez 10.1 IP, 6.10 ERA
Miller 43.0 IP, 3.14 ERA

Rhodes

Hanigan 20.2 IP, 3.05 ERA
Hernandez 26.1 IP, 1.71 ERA
Miller 8.0 IP, 2.25 ERA

Owings

Hanigan 11.0 IP, 1.64 ERA
Hernandez 18.2 IP, 6.75 ERA
Miller 3.2 IP, 9.82 ERA

Bray

Hanigan 12.0 IP, 1.50 ERA
Hernandez 14.0 IP, 5.79 ERA
Miller 2.1 IP, 7.71 ERA

Herrera

Hanigan 5.0 IP, 1.80 ERA
Hernandez 13.0 IP, 4.85 ERA
Miller 5.0 IP, 3.60 ERA

Fisher

Hanigan 10.1 IP, 3.48 ERA
Hernandez 9.0 IP, 10.00 ERA
Miller 3.0 IP, 0.00 ERA

Chapman

Hanigan 5.1 IP, 0.00 ERA
Hernandez 7.0 IP, 3.86 ERA
Miller 1.0 IP, 0.00 ERA



Yes, this is simplified. But it's an unmistakable pattern: The Reds' pitchers are almost ALL significantly worse with Hernandez behind the plate. If he's the personal catcher for Cueto and Volquez and not much else, he's fine. And it would be nice if there was a way to keep him the hell away from all the relievers except for Rhodes. Seriously, the Reds would be better off without him, IMO.

Catcher's ERA

Hanigan 3.39
Hernandez 4.77
Miller 2.86

MBZags
11-16-2010, 12:51 AM
Solid signing.

If Hernandez shows a remarkable decline and Mesoraco proves to be ready, the Reds can always DFA Hernandez without a huge loss. If Hernandez is decent, Mesoraco gets another year to polish his game. This is a good insurance move by the Reds.

757690
11-16-2010, 02:52 AM
I see some downside:


Cordero

Hanigan 30.2 IP, 2.05 ERA
Hernandez 29.1 IP, 6.44 ERA
Miller 12.2 IP, 2.13 ERA

Masset

Hanigan 25.2 IP, 0.70 ERA
Hernandez 42.2 IP, 5.27 ERA
Miller 8.1 IP, 2.16 ERA

Ondrusek

Hanigan 15.2 IP, 4.02 ERA
Hernandez 32.2 IP, 4.41 ERA
Miller 10.1 IP 0.87 ERA


Smith

Hanigan 10.2 IP, 2.53 ERA
Hernandez 20.1 IP, 4.43 ERA
Miller 11.0 IP, 3.27 ERA

Harang

Hanigan 42.0 IP, 4.07 ERA
Hernandez 56.2 IP, 6.99 ERA
Miller 13.0 IP, 2.08 ERA

Bailey

Hanigan 83.1 IP, 3.24 ERA
Hernandez 25.2 IP, 8.42 ERA


Wood

Hanigan 33.1 IP, 2.43 ERA
Hernandez 51.2 IP, 4.35 ERA
Miller 17.2 IP, 3.06 ERA

Leake

Hanigan 20.1 IP, 5.31 ERA
Hernandez 103.2 IP, 3.99 ERA
Miller 14.1 IP, 4.40 ERA

Volquez

Hanigan 8.1 IP, 7.56 ERA
Hernandez 54.1 IP, 3.81 ERA

LeCure

Hanigan 11.0 IP, 1.64 ERA
Hernandez 29.2 IP, 5.46 ERA
Miller 7.1 IP, 4.91 ERA

Cueto

Hanigan 6.0 IP, 3.00 ERA
Hernandez 160.0 IP, 3.94 ERA
Miller 19.2 IP, 1.37 ERA

Arroyo

Hanigan 162.1 IP, 3.94 ERA
Hernandez 10.1 IP, 6.10 ERA
Miller 43.0 IP, 3.14 ERA

Rhodes

Hanigan 20.2 IP, 3.05 ERA
Hernandez 26.1 IP, 1.71 ERA
Miller 8.0 IP, 2.25 ERA

Owings

Hanigan 11.0 IP, 1.64 ERA
Hernandez 18.2 IP, 6.75 ERA
Miller 3.2 IP, 9.82 ERA

Bray

Hanigan 12.0 IP, 1.50 ERA
Hernandez 14.0 IP, 5.79 ERA
Miller 2.1 IP, 7.71 ERA

Herrera

Hanigan 5.0 IP, 1.80 ERA
Hernandez 13.0 IP, 4.85 ERA
Miller 5.0 IP, 3.60 ERA

Fisher

Hanigan 10.1 IP, 3.48 ERA
Hernandez 9.0 IP, 10.00 ERA
Miller 3.0 IP, 0.00 ERA

Chapman

Hanigan 5.1 IP, 0.00 ERA
Hernandez 7.0 IP, 3.86 ERA
Miller 1.0 IP, 0.00 ERA



Yes, this is simplified. But it's an unmistakable pattern: The Reds' pitchers are almost ALL significantly worse with Hernandez behind the plate. If he's the personal catcher for Cueto and Volquez and not much else, he's fine. And it would be nice if there was a way to keep him the hell away from all the relievers except for Rhodes. Seriously, the Reds would be better off without him, IMO.

Catcher's ERA

Hanigan 3.39
Hernandez 4.77
Miller 2.86

Nice research! :thumbup:

But what this shows me is that it's smart to keep Hernandez to catch Cueto, Leake and Volquez, which judging from innings pitched, is what what they did last year.

bounty37h
11-16-2010, 09:05 AM
I was vocally not a fan of his when we made the trade, but he has won me over for the most part and am glad to have him back. I still dont think he is the best at calling games, but think he has other tangibles that make him a valuable part of this team.

Vottomatic
11-16-2010, 09:38 AM
I see some downside:


Cordero

Hanigan 30.2 IP, 2.05 ERA
Hernandez 29.1 IP, 6.44 ERA
Miller 12.2 IP, 2.13 ERA

Masset

Hanigan 25.2 IP, 0.70 ERA
Hernandez 42.2 IP, 5.27 ERA
Miller 8.1 IP, 2.16 ERA

Ondrusek

Hanigan 15.2 IP, 4.02 ERA
Hernandez 32.2 IP, 4.41 ERA
Miller 10.1 IP 0.87 ERA


Smith

Hanigan 10.2 IP, 2.53 ERA
Hernandez 20.1 IP, 4.43 ERA
Miller 11.0 IP, 3.27 ERA

Harang

Hanigan 42.0 IP, 4.07 ERA
Hernandez 56.2 IP, 6.99 ERA
Miller 13.0 IP, 2.08 ERA

Bailey

Hanigan 83.1 IP, 3.24 ERA
Hernandez 25.2 IP, 8.42 ERA


Wood

Hanigan 33.1 IP, 2.43 ERA
Hernandez 51.2 IP, 4.35 ERA
Miller 17.2 IP, 3.06 ERA

Leake

Hanigan 20.1 IP, 5.31 ERA
Hernandez 103.2 IP, 3.99 ERA
Miller 14.1 IP, 4.40 ERA

Volquez

Hanigan 8.1 IP, 7.56 ERA
Hernandez 54.1 IP, 3.81 ERA

LeCure

Hanigan 11.0 IP, 1.64 ERA
Hernandez 29.2 IP, 5.46 ERA
Miller 7.1 IP, 4.91 ERA

Cueto

Hanigan 6.0 IP, 3.00 ERA
Hernandez 160.0 IP, 3.94 ERA
Miller 19.2 IP, 1.37 ERA

Arroyo

Hanigan 162.1 IP, 3.94 ERA
Hernandez 10.1 IP, 6.10 ERA
Miller 43.0 IP, 3.14 ERA

Rhodes

Hanigan 20.2 IP, 3.05 ERA
Hernandez 26.1 IP, 1.71 ERA
Miller 8.0 IP, 2.25 ERA

Owings

Hanigan 11.0 IP, 1.64 ERA
Hernandez 18.2 IP, 6.75 ERA
Miller 3.2 IP, 9.82 ERA

Bray

Hanigan 12.0 IP, 1.50 ERA
Hernandez 14.0 IP, 5.79 ERA
Miller 2.1 IP, 7.71 ERA

Herrera

Hanigan 5.0 IP, 1.80 ERA
Hernandez 13.0 IP, 4.85 ERA
Miller 5.0 IP, 3.60 ERA

Fisher

Hanigan 10.1 IP, 3.48 ERA
Hernandez 9.0 IP, 10.00 ERA
Miller 3.0 IP, 0.00 ERA

Chapman

Hanigan 5.1 IP, 0.00 ERA
Hernandez 7.0 IP, 3.86 ERA
Miller 1.0 IP, 0.00 ERA



Yes, this is simplified. But it's an unmistakable pattern: The Reds' pitchers are almost ALL significantly worse with Hernandez behind the plate. If he's the personal catcher for Cueto and Volquez and not much else, he's fine. And it would be nice if there was a way to keep him the hell away from all the relievers except for Rhodes. Seriously, the Reds would be better off without him, IMO.

Catcher's ERA

Hanigan 3.39
Hernandez 4.77
Miller 2.86

Okay. So have Hernandez catch Leake, Volquez, and Rhodes. :D :p:

'69 & Vine
11-16-2010, 11:35 AM
This is a great signing, maybe more from an emotional standpoint (I like RH) and the $3 mil is more than reasonable with the flexibility of a one-year deal.

Natty Redlocks
11-16-2010, 01:01 PM
Nice research! :thumbup:

But what this shows me is that it's smart to keep Hernandez to catch Cueto, Leake and Volquez, which judging from innings pitched, is what what they did last year.

I'm sorry, but what it says to me is that he is a freaking gas can for the bullpen. Going by these numbers (which, again, is a simplification, granted) -- you could argue that the disappointing seasons by Cordero, Masset, Herrera, Owings, Bray, Fisher, not to mention Harang and oh yeah Homer Bailey -- can be directly attributed to the guy who was apparently behind the plate almost every time they had a bad outing. I mean, without Hernandez' innings, Harang was roughly league average, Cordero and Masset were DOMINANT, and Bailey was better than Cueto (til he got hurt, anyway).

If a team like the Reds wants to take the next step and compete in the playoffs with elite pitching staffs, they need catchers who get the most out of the guys they have. I have no problem with him catching Volquez and Cueto, but if almost EVERY OTHER PITCHER on the staff is significantly better when someone else catches, it seems to me that's a major problem that really needs to be addressed, not just waved away because we kinda like his bat and veteran leadership. IMO.

Jefferson24
11-16-2010, 01:33 PM
I see some downside:


Cordero

Hanigan 30.2 IP, 2.05 ERA
Hernandez 29.1 IP, 6.44 ERA
Miller 12.2 IP, 2.13 ERA

Masset

Hanigan 25.2 IP, 0.70 ERA
Hernandez 42.2 IP, 5.27 ERA
Miller 8.1 IP, 2.16 ERA

Ondrusek

Hanigan 15.2 IP, 4.02 ERA
Hernandez 32.2 IP, 4.41 ERA
Miller 10.1 IP 0.87 ERA


Smith

Hanigan 10.2 IP, 2.53 ERA
Hernandez 20.1 IP, 4.43 ERA
Miller 11.0 IP, 3.27 ERA

Harang

Hanigan 42.0 IP, 4.07 ERA
Hernandez 56.2 IP, 6.99 ERA
Miller 13.0 IP, 2.08 ERA

Bailey

Hanigan 83.1 IP, 3.24 ERA
Hernandez 25.2 IP, 8.42 ERA


Wood

Hanigan 33.1 IP, 2.43 ERA
Hernandez 51.2 IP, 4.35 ERA
Miller 17.2 IP, 3.06 ERA

Leake

Hanigan 20.1 IP, 5.31 ERA
Hernandez 103.2 IP, 3.99 ERA
Miller 14.1 IP, 4.40 ERA

Volquez

Hanigan 8.1 IP, 7.56 ERA
Hernandez 54.1 IP, 3.81 ERA

LeCure

Hanigan 11.0 IP, 1.64 ERA
Hernandez 29.2 IP, 5.46 ERA
Miller 7.1 IP, 4.91 ERA

Cueto

Hanigan 6.0 IP, 3.00 ERA
Hernandez 160.0 IP, 3.94 ERA
Miller 19.2 IP, 1.37 ERA

Arroyo

Hanigan 162.1 IP, 3.94 ERA
Hernandez 10.1 IP, 6.10 ERA
Miller 43.0 IP, 3.14 ERA

Rhodes

Hanigan 20.2 IP, 3.05 ERA
Hernandez 26.1 IP, 1.71 ERA
Miller 8.0 IP, 2.25 ERA

Owings

Hanigan 11.0 IP, 1.64 ERA
Hernandez 18.2 IP, 6.75 ERA
Miller 3.2 IP, 9.82 ERA

Bray

Hanigan 12.0 IP, 1.50 ERA
Hernandez 14.0 IP, 5.79 ERA
Miller 2.1 IP, 7.71 ERA

Herrera

Hanigan 5.0 IP, 1.80 ERA
Hernandez 13.0 IP, 4.85 ERA
Miller 5.0 IP, 3.60 ERA

Fisher

Hanigan 10.1 IP, 3.48 ERA
Hernandez 9.0 IP, 10.00 ERA
Miller 3.0 IP, 0.00 ERA

Chapman

Hanigan 5.1 IP, 0.00 ERA
Hernandez 7.0 IP, 3.86 ERA
Miller 1.0 IP, 0.00 ERA



Yes, this is simplified. But it's an unmistakable pattern: The Reds' pitchers are almost ALL significantly worse with Hernandez behind the plate. If he's the personal catcher for Cueto and Volquez and not much else, he's fine. And it would be nice if there was a way to keep him the hell away from all the relievers except for Rhodes. Seriously, the Reds would be better off without him, IMO.

Catcher's ERA

Hanigan 3.39
Hernandez 4.77
Miller 2.86

Those numbers don't lie. Problem is we need two catchers. I think most will agree that Miller is not going to cut it. Mes is not ready yet. So what other options are there? I think the best choice is to live with Hernandez until Mes is ready. I haven't heard of any better plan.