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Brutus
11-16-2010, 05:31 PM
Reports coming out of the GM meetings today are that the general managers are in support of adding one extra wild card from each league, creating a wild card round.

The question, then, is whether the wild card round would be a 1-game, do-or-die with the top seed awaiting the winner or whether it would be a brief 3-game series.

Either way, I am totally on board with this. I think it re-emphasizes the regular season and creates a much stronger reward for winning your division. Especially if it winds up being a 1-game series.

RedsManRick
11-16-2010, 06:18 PM
Of course they favor it. More wild card means more teams in the playoff hunt and more teams in the playoffs which means more revenues. The people responsible for minding the purse will almost always favor something which pads it.

Sea Ray
11-16-2010, 06:21 PM
I would want it to be a three game series. One is just too quick for a sport like baseball that is so dependent on one player, the pitcher

macro
11-16-2010, 06:43 PM
I understand the sentiment behind rewarding the division winners, but this could potentially create an equally unfair situation. What if a team wins 100 games but doesn't win the division, while another team wins it's division with 84 wins. The 84-win team from the weak division gets to relax while the 100-win team is sweating it out in a wildcard round. The proposed extra round is far from perfect, and certainly not worth it's disadvantages.

Is this a reaction to the Yankees-Rays situation this year? It seems that it is. How often has that situation existed? Is the reaction knee-jerk?

Slyder
11-16-2010, 11:56 PM
I understand the sentiment behind rewarding the division winners, but this could potentially create an equally unfair situation. What if a team wins 100 games but doesn't win the division, while another team wins it's division with 84 wins. The 84-win team from the weak division gets to relax while the 100-win team is sweating it out in a wildcard round. The proposed extra round is far from perfect, and certainly not worth it's disadvantages.

Is this a reaction to the Yankees-Rays situation this year? It seems that it is. How often has that situation existed? Is the reaction knee-jerk?

You risk that scenario of a weak division getting in regardless. I mean look at the Cards the year they won it. They won 82 games. Anything that adds additional intrigue to the august games is a good move. You don't water it down to the point like NBA or NHL but you give more emphasis to not let up just because youve already clinched a playoff spot (Phi/Atl a couple years ago I think, Yanks/Rays this year). I think playoffs would be better if you can condense it. None of this where one series is in Game 3 and the other is leading into Game 5 crap either.

blumj
11-17-2010, 02:01 AM
I understand the sentiment behind rewarding the division winners, but this could potentially create an equally unfair situation. What if a team wins 100 games but doesn't win the division, while another team wins it's division with 84 wins. The 84-win team from the weak division gets to relax while the 100-win team is sweating it out in a wildcard round. The proposed extra round is far from perfect, and certainly not worth it's disadvantages.

Is this a reaction to the Yankees-Rays situation this year? It seems that it is. How often has that situation existed? Is the reaction knee-jerk?
I think it is. If you look at what happened with the Yankees and Rays, you can see the flaw with a 1 game WC playoff right away. The last few games of the season, with the Yankees and Rays still fighting it out for the division and using their best pitchers in the process, the Red Sox would have already clinched WC #2 with no chance at either the division or WC #1(assuming there's even any advantage to being WC #1 vs. WC #2), doing nothing but preparing for that 1 game with their best starting pitcher all lined up. That's awfully nice reward for finishing in 3rd place.

The Operator
11-17-2010, 07:31 AM
That's awfully nice reward for finishing in 3rd place.Would this new system allow a 3rd place team to be in the WC round?

I had it in my head that it would be the two best 2nd place teams, not the two best non-1st place teams record-wise. But I could be wrong about that.

Roy Tucker
11-17-2010, 01:40 PM
I kinda like the do-or-die 1 game playoff.

With jury-rigged first round playoff matching, there is very little penalty for the wild card. Teams coast into the finish because there is little stigma for being the WC team.

A one-game playoff sure makes it a lot more of a nail-biter and teams will want to avoid it like the plague.

fearofpopvol1
11-17-2010, 02:15 PM
I hate this idea. Baseball has (in my opinion) the best current playoff system of any sport. The best tea in each division and then the one team that plays the best of all 3 divisions who didn't win their division. This new idea cheapens the playoffs in my opinion.

But hey, we all know it's about the almighty dollar anymore. Screw anything else!!

redsfan30
11-17-2010, 02:24 PM
One more chance for our Reds to make the playoffs sure sounds like a great idea to me.

Yachtzee
11-19-2010, 11:49 AM
Great. Just what MLB needs. More playoffs. :rolleyes:

If they aren't going to cut down the number of games in the season, I see this as being a terrible idea. Stretch the playoffs further into November. Yeah, great. One of the great things about baseball is that it's playoffs are relatively compact. The whole thing is over in a month. Compare that to other sports where just about everyone but the worst teams are let in and you get playoffs that seem to be a season unto themselves.

Personally, I'd like to see them drop down to two divisions in each league and give the first and second place teams in each division a playoff spot. Move to a balanced schedule so that each team is playing every other team in the league a fare amount of times. Drop interleague play. Right now the problem with weaker teams making the playoffs arises because of the inequities of the unbalanced schedule and smaller divisions in which the quality of teams may be lacking in one compared to another. Add to that an interleague schedule where nobody plays the same teams and you get a system where weaker division winners are bound to go to the playoffs in favor of stronger teams in stronger divisions.

bucksfan2
11-19-2010, 11:53 AM
I like the way the playoffs are right now. Adding another wild card and another round would only push back the playoffs and make them more irrelevant to the overall sports world.

redsfandan
11-19-2010, 12:15 PM
Personally, I'd like to see them drop down to two divisions in each league and give the first and second place teams in each division a playoff spot.

+1

Doubt it will happen but it would make it alot less likely that a 90 win team misses the playoffs while an 85 win team makes it.

TRF
11-19-2010, 12:34 PM
+1

Doubt it will happen but it would make it alot less likely that a 90 win team misses the playoffs while an 85 win team makes it.

no it wouldn't. This year 5 teams in the NL won 90+ games, with 4 making the playoffs. Split the NL Central in half and three of those 5 are in the NL East. The West would be significantly weaker as the NL East teams will have the higher average payroll. You'd be more likely to see a 90+ win team watching an 85 win team in the playoffs. A new AL east would be even worse with NY, Boston and TB. plus CHI and DET added.

No thanks from me on this scenario.

dfs
11-19-2010, 12:39 PM
The orioles and the blue jays would suggest that bundling more teams into the AL East might not be a good move in the name of competitive balancing.

Once they put the wild card in place, you saw this coming. Why not just do the NBA thing and put everybody in the playoffs? If the goal is to maximize fan interest in marginal clubs.....Sure it cost you pennant races, but they've already gone. Put 8 teams per league in the playoffs and have rounds of 8/4/2 and then the world series.

Slyder
11-19-2010, 01:38 PM
Adding 1 team is not going to "ruin" the playoffs. Worried about pushing into November? Well here's what you do..

Trim 1 week off of Spring Training
Trim the days off between the later rounds of playoffs for strictly travel purposes
Trim days off from the season.
Eliminate the day off after opening day.
Move opening day UP. Weather in the North is going to be ? regardless of if you start April 1, April 10, or March 24.

You give teams like St. Louis, us, Chicago, etc an opportunity to get into the playoffs. You also keep baseball relevant for a longer time in more cities, which in turn keeps people coming into the games, also gives more opportunities to grow fan bases as teams have a more legitimate opportunity to make the playoffs.

Using the 2 wild card teams model the next 3 teams would be:
2010:
AL= Boston 89 wins, Chicago 88 wins, Toronto 85 wins
NL= San Diego 90 wins only team that would have mattered.

If you emphasize the division leaders how could that have changed how the Yanks and Rays had punted the end to the season? How would having that 2nd wild card have affected what Chicago and Boston did? It would have kept both in it until the very end and we know how ESPN loves NY and Boston. Keep baseball relevant longer with better ratings.

2009:
AL= Texas 87 wins, Minnesota 85 wins, Tampa 84 wins.
NL= San Fran 87 wins, Florida 87 wins, Atlanta 86 wins.

Look at the races and news you could have had adding simply 1 more wild card team. Thats 3 of the poster children (Min, Tampa, and Fla) of small market baseball. You keep them involved with more coverage and use the race to try and grow the game through the race.

2008:
AL=Yankees 89 wins (same as AL Central champ), Minnesota 88 wins, Toronto 86 wins.
NL= Mets 89 wins

the Yanks were out of it well before the end of the season, a 2nd wild card team would at the very least again give someone the OPPORTUNITY. Without really watering down the field. You might have not had the Mets outright collapse of the past few seasons.

Im not condoning going any larger I just believe it is something that baseball (if marketed right) could really grow the game and keep the game on the front page as football is starting in September and keep momentum going into the playoffs. If you don't want to go past Halloween then trim 7-10 days off spring training most people who talk about it says that last few days is useless anyways.

gonelong
11-19-2010, 01:42 PM
In the 16 years of the AL Wild Card, the Yankees or RedSox have been the wild-card team 11 of those times. Meh.

GL

dfs
11-19-2010, 02:55 PM
Im not condoning going any larger I just believe it is something that baseball (if marketed right) could really grow the game and keep the game on the front page as football is starting in September and keep momentum going into the playoffs.

And if they had taken 8 teams there would have been a great battle in the NL for that last slot with florida, the dodgers and the mets all duking it out till the last weekend. Wow that one day playoff between the marlins and the dodgers sure would have helped interest in baseball.

Same thing would have happened in the AL with the Tigers and the A's just brushing by the Angels. Man, that would have been exciting.

Slyder
11-19-2010, 03:05 PM
And if they had taken 8 teams there would have been a great battle in the NL for that last slot with florida, the dodgers and the mets all duking it out till the last weekend. Wow that one day playoff between the marlins and the dodgers sure would have helped interest in baseball.

Same thing would have happened in the AL with the Tigers and the A's just brushing by the Angels. Man, that would have been exciting.

I'm talking about adding 3 games and maybe 5 days to the season. How many games/days would 8 team playoff get?

8 teams is taking it to far. You would water down the product way too much, the division championships become a joke, even being a wild card would be cheapened being 1 of a bunch rather than 1 of 2.

You add the most by tweaking the system not going with a complete new one. Many complained that the Yanks and Rays (Phillies/Braves a couple years ago) punted the last week of the season cause both were guarenteed to make the playoffs. How would that series had been affected knowing that the "loser" would have to play Boston or Chicago before and throwing their entire rotation into disarray. You're still adding a legitimate high caliber team by adding just 1 team to the playoffs.

And btw that was my post you quoted not Yachtzee.

dfs
11-19-2010, 03:30 PM
I'm talking about adding 3 games and maybe 5 days to the season. How many games/days would 8 team playoff get?
Exactly the same amount of post season time as the proposed setup.

Wild Card Round - Round of Four - League Championship - World Series.

Round of 8 - Round of Four - League Championship - World Series.


8 teams is taking it to far. You would water down the product way too much, the division championships become a joke, even being a wild card would be cheapened being 1 of a bunch rather than 1 of 2.
....I don't think that was intended as comedy. So, I'll take it as face value. Once you allow a team that has not won it's division into the post season tournament, there is no reason to excluded anybody. I think the current setup waters down the product, but that's me. Obviously owners feel differently than I do.


You add the most by tweaking the system not going with a complete new one. Many complained that the Yanks and Rays (Phillies/Braves a couple years ago) punted the last week of the season cause both were guarenteed to make the playoffs. How would that series had been affected knowing that the "loser" would have to play Boston or Chicago before and throwing their entire rotation into disarray. You're still adding a legitimate high caliber team by adding just 1 team to the playoffs.
A couple years ago the Cardinals won the world series with an 83 win team. In 73 the Mets got the world series with an 82 win team. I'm not sure that I see the difference between those teams and this year's 80 win marlin team.

I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be obtuse. Every argument that can be made proposing that they go to 5 teams can be made that they should go to 8. Furthermore, once you've allowed that extra series.....they will expand it to "promote interest." Why not just get it over with and let 8 teams in?


And btw that was my post you quoted not Yachtzee.
Sorry about that.