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View Full Version : Gardenhire wins AL, Bud Black edges Dusty by 1 vote for NL Mgr of the Year



redsmetz
11-17-2010, 03:19 PM
That's a shame - I think Baker deserved it.

http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101117&content_id=16127444&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

redsmetz
11-17-2010, 03:20 PM
Mods, you can close mine out. Chip & I hit it at the exact same time.

Plus Plus
11-17-2010, 03:47 PM
Kieth Law could be a person to wag the finger at regarding this...

Per Kieth Law's twitter:

Correct. Can't slag arms and make my ballot. RT @DanielRathman: Is it also safe to assume that Dusty Baker did not make your NL MoY ballot?

Not sure how Dusty did any more "arm slagging" than Bud Black did, considering that Black used the entire back end of his bullpen like 7 games in a row to close out the season...

Cedric
11-17-2010, 03:50 PM
Kieth Law could be a person to wag the finger at regarding this...

Per Kieth Law's twitter:

Correct. Can't slag arms and make my ballot. RT @DanielRathman: Is it also safe to assume that Dusty Baker did not make your NL MoY ballot?

Not sure how Dusty did any more "arm slagging" than Bud Black did, considering that Black used the entire back end of his bullpen like 7 games in a row to close out the season...

Keith Law is a lazy "journalist".

It's pathetic honestly that the guy gets paid to write about this sport. There are over 50 people on this site alone that know more about baseball than him.

RedsManRick
11-17-2010, 04:21 PM
Black did more with less than any manager in baseball. Kudos to him.

redsfan30
11-17-2010, 04:21 PM
Darn, was really hoping Dusty would get it.

kaldaniels
11-17-2010, 04:24 PM
I was unaware of this till just now...but the Reds lead MLB in total WAR (batters) from their team this year.

So yeah, I will agree Black did more with less...but what does that mean exactly.

Homer Bailey
11-17-2010, 05:24 PM
They both did enough to deserve it, IMO. Hard to be upset. I wanted it for Dusty, but Black was every bit as deserving.

I(heart)Freel
11-17-2010, 07:02 PM
Here's hoping that leading a team to the playoffs trumps all else in another award coming up!

TheNext44
11-17-2010, 07:11 PM
I was unaware of this till just now...but the Reds lead MLB in total WAR (batters) from their team this year.

So yeah, I will agree Black did more with less...but what does that mean exactly.

A $36M payroll, and only one true All-Star. That's a lot less. He also played in a tougher division.

Still, Dusty has to be happy with a second place Manager of the Year vote, considering he was probably the first manager to be fired on many people's pre-season list.

edabbs44
11-17-2010, 10:35 PM
Congrats on a successful season Dusty.

marcshoe
11-18-2010, 01:50 AM
I like Bud Black as a manager, but let's be honest; there are a lot of people out there who vote on awards such as this who do not like Dusty. I would even say that many writers are predisposed to denigrate his accomplishments without consciously realizing why they're doing it.

No conpiracy theory, no real whining, just a realistic look at the situation. I think it's a really big deal that Dusty came as close as he did. Congratulations.

Ron Madden
11-18-2010, 07:25 AM
Baker, Bochy or Black.

I'd have been OK with any one of these three winning the award.

TheNext44
11-18-2010, 07:42 AM
Baker, Bochy or Black.

I'd have been OK with any one of these three winning the award.

Really surprised at how few votes Bochy got. It's not like the Gisnts on paper were that much better than the Padres.

Sea Ray
11-18-2010, 11:33 AM
A $36M payroll, and only one true All-Star. That's a lot less. He also played in a tougher division.

Still, Dusty has to be happy with a second place Manager of the Year vote, considering he was probably the first manager to be fired on many people's pre-season list.

No, I think Jerry Manuel was higher on the "to be fired" list than Dusty

marcshoe
11-18-2010, 03:19 PM
Really surprised at how few votes Bochy got. It's not like the Gisnts on paper were that much better than the Padres.

When did the voting take place? The Giants being the last team in--and the last team (of those that made it) that anyone expected to be in--had to have had an effect.

bucksfan2
11-18-2010, 03:35 PM
Baker, Bochy or Black.

I'd have been OK with any one of these three winning the award.

The more I think about it Black didn't deserve the award. On August 25th the Padres had a 6.5 game and proceeded to lose 10 in a row and finish off the season 9 games under .500. If you willing to give a manager credit for overachieving through the first half + of a season you also have to give him blame for a late season collapse.

westofyou
11-18-2010, 03:43 PM
The more I think about it Black didn't deserve the award. On August 25th the Padres had a 6.5 game and proceeded to lose 10 in a row and finish off the season 9 games under .500. If you willing to give a manager credit for overachieving through the first half + of a season you also have to give him blame for a late season collapse.

His team hit this in September

.229/.293/.342/.635

Not much he can do at that point

bucksfan2
11-18-2010, 03:54 PM
His team hit this in September

.229/.293/.342/.635

Not much he can do at that point

But don't we give him credit if his team goes nuts in the month of May?

IMO you earn you keep down the stretch of a pennant race.

westofyou
11-18-2010, 04:06 PM
But don't we give him credit if his team goes nuts in the month of May?

IMO you earn you keep down the stretch of a pennant race.


Yes, and that's why he won I suppose.

It's a pretty close race and I can't see how anyone could have problem with any of the 3 guys.

I do know that according to ESPN's pre season picks the Giants and Reds were mentioned more than the friars.


Giants - 6 times

Reds - 4 times

Padres - 0 times


http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/preview10/news/story?page=10expertpicks

OnBaseMachine
11-18-2010, 04:38 PM
While I would have liked for Dusty to have won the NL MOY, I have no problem with Bud Black winning it. Entering the 2010 season I thought the Padres had a legit chance at losing 95 games. Instead, they won 90 games and narrowly missed the playoffs. I'm amazed they won as many games as they did with that awful offense.

bucksfan2
11-18-2010, 04:51 PM
While I would have liked for Dusty to win the NL MOY, I have no problem with Bud Black winning it. Entering the 2010 season I thought the Padres had a legit chance at losing 95 games. Instead, they won 90 games and narrowly missed the playoffs.

What would you have felt about Dusty had the Reds blown the division lead and missed out on the playoffs this season?

I think SD may be the only place in baseball, besides maybe Pittsburgh or KC, who would have been content with their team blowing a lead down the stretch. In most cities fans would have been calling for the manager's head, not rewarding them with a MOY award.

Chip R
11-18-2010, 04:54 PM
What would you have felt about Dusty had the Reds blown the division lead and missed out on the playoffs this season?

I think SD may be the only place in baseball, besides maybe Pittsburgh or KC, who would have been content with their team blowing a lead down the stretch. In most cities fans would have been calling for the manager's head, not rewarding them with a MOY award.


Of course most votes - or the deciding ones - may have been submitted before before the end of the season. It could have been someone had their mind made up one way or the other by Labor Day.

OnBaseMachine
11-18-2010, 05:07 PM
What would you have felt about Dusty had the Reds blown the division lead and missed out on the playoffs this season?

I think SD may be the only place in baseball, besides maybe Pittsburgh or KC, who would have been content with their team blowing a lead down the stretch. In most cities fans would have been calling for the manager's head, not rewarding them with a MOY award.

Both Dusty and Bud Black deserved to win but only one can. As I said, I would have loved for Dusty to have won but I'm fine with Black winning. Entering the season the Reds were viewed as anywhere from a .500 team to an 85/86 win team while the Padres were expected to be one of the worst teams in baseball. The Reds played above expectations but I think the Padres even further exceeded their expectations. Thus, I have no problem with Black winning the award.

cincrazy
11-18-2010, 07:54 PM
What would you have felt about Dusty had the Reds blown the division lead and missed out on the playoffs this season?

I think SD may be the only place in baseball, besides maybe Pittsburgh or KC, who would have been content with their team blowing a lead down the stretch. In most cities fans would have been calling for the manager's head, not rewarding them with a MOY award.

The Reds very well may have blown the division if the Cards hadn't imploded. We didn't exactly light the world on fire in September, either.

Granted, we didn't lose 10 in a row. And we DID make the playoffs. But there's no injustice in Black winning this award. He more than deserved it.

Ron Madden
11-19-2010, 04:26 AM
What would you have felt about Dusty had the Reds blown the division lead and missed out on the playoffs this season?

I think SD may be the only place in baseball, besides maybe Pittsburgh or KC, who would have been content with their team blowing a lead down the stretch. In most cities fans would have been calling for the manager's head, not rewarding them with a MOY award.

San Diego fans had nothing to do with Bud Black winning this award.
I've heard that two writers from each city vote for MOY, the deadline is sometime in September. If any of the three or even Bobby Cox would've won it would be ok by me.

GAC
11-19-2010, 06:04 AM
I'm glad that Gardenhire won, since he is a good manager and has missed out prior; but I think a case could be made that Washington should have gotten it. But is this also a situation, in Gardenhire's case, of a manager doing more with less and finally rewarding him?

westofyou
11-19-2010, 02:22 PM
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=12468



So then there were two. As much as I respected what Baker had done, and as impressed as I was that he'd proven admirably changeable after all these years, I was left thinking that Black's brio, with his lineup and that pen, with his aggressive handling of an uncertain rotation, was the combination I was most impressed with. Perhaps it relied heavily on low initial expectations, perhaps not. I know that I was chagrined for quite some time over whether or not voting for Baker—after picking him in the pre-season—constituted some form of a self-fulfilling prophecy. In the end, I was left with the conviction that Black deserved it, for the difference he had made with his staff, and for his creativity in compensating for his shortage of quality lineup regulars with platooning and job-sharing arrangements.

Always Red
11-19-2010, 02:32 PM
http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=12468

I have no problem with Bud Black winning this by a single vote.

Keith Law defines himself by his snide, ignorant tweat. That's not the Dusty Baker we have seen here over the last 3 years.

Christina Kahrl has forgotten more about baseball than Law ever knew.