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steig
11-28-2010, 11:00 AM
Apparently there is a strained relationship between Ellsbury and the Red Sox and the Sox could be open to moving him. What about the possibility of Ellsbury in left for the Reds? He could bat lead off and be our best defensive left field option. While he was hurt for 2010 maybe the Reds could pick him up in a good deal.

reds1869
11-28-2010, 11:05 AM
If the price is right I would love Ellsbury in left. His defense and speed have both suffered a bit, but he is still a monstrous upgrade. If the Bosox want to move him I'd be more than happy to see him penciled into the 2011 Reds leadoff spot.

membengal
11-28-2010, 11:10 AM
Ellsbury is on my short list of LF targets. All for it.

mth123
11-28-2010, 11:50 AM
Sox are a tough match-up for the Reds. Maybe Alonso would interest them some and if the Reds could add some other pieces from lower in the system, they could use them to piece together a package for Adrian Gonzalez. Something like Alonso, Heisey and Boxberger might work, but if the goal is to put together a package for Gonzalez, the Pads would probably rather have Ellsbury. The Sox want bullpen help and would like to move Matsuzaka's contract, but the Reds probably couldn't afford to deal Masset (which would be the Sox likely target) and the Reds can't really absorb Matsuzaka's deal. Its hard to picture a deal that could work IMO.

lollipopcurve
11-28-2010, 12:07 PM
Sox are a tough match-up for the Reds. Maybe Alonso would interest them some and if the Reds could add some other pieces from lower in the system, they could use them to piece together a package for Adrian Gonzalez. Something like Alonso, Heisey and Boxberger might work, but if the goal is to put together a package for Gonzalez, the Pads would probably rather have Ellsbury.

Agreed. Ellsbury's their best chip for a big bat, and the Sox don't have a pressing need for the Reds' best chip -- pitching. If the Reds are going to make a significant deal, say for a player like Reyes or Ellsbury, it's going to have to involve pitching. There's no top-shelf major-league ready prospect who could land a top player. (Alonso, Frazier, et al, are not elite prospects at this point.)

Spitball
11-28-2010, 12:36 PM
Right. If the Sox trade Ellsbury, it won't be for a package of prospect but for an established bat or even Colby Rasmus.

Though I agree the Red Sox don't match up with the Reds, I can see the Reds matching up for Mike Cameron if the Sox agree to pay much of his salary. Cameron would probably put up Gomes type offense, but with him in center, Stubbs in left, and Bruce in right, the Reds would have a tight outfield defense.

Griffey012
11-28-2010, 01:06 PM
The Reds can always work a three way trade: send pitchers to a team that needs pitching and has bats to spare, they can send the bats to Bosto, and we get Ellsbury.

TheNext44
11-28-2010, 01:21 PM
Elsbury doesn't have much trade value, coming off an I jury year, and about to make big money. Plus, he's really not part of their plans anymore. The Red Sox need a big bat, but in no way are counting on Elsbury as a way to get that big bat. He would only be a piece of what's needed to get one. The bigger piece would be Bard or Papelbon.

I think the Sox would love an Elsbury for Alonso deal. Alonso is their type of hitter, would be a great replecement for Ortiz, and would thrive on Pesky's Pole.

mth123
11-28-2010, 01:30 PM
Right. If the Sox trade Ellsbury, it won't be for a package of prospect but for an established bat or even Colby Rasmus.

Though I agree the Red Sox don't match up with the Reds, I can see the Reds matching up for Mike Cameron if the Sox agree to pay much of his salary. Cameron would probably put up Gomes type offense, but with him in center, Stubbs in left, and Bruce in right, the Reds would have a tight outfield defense.

Cameron will be 38, he's coming off of injuries and will make $7.25 Million in 2011 as a one year rental. I wonder if the Sox would take Cordero and a middling prospect (say somebody like Valaika). Reds get their OF some help and free some money from the budget. The Sox get an added arm for the pen to make it easier to deal Bard and say Bowden along with Ellsbury in a deal for Gonzalez. If the Sox balk at taking on any money, perhaps the Reds could add a middling prospect that might interest the Padres and get Scutaro as well. Scutaro would be good insurance at SS and add depth at 2B and 3B where the Reds really need it. It would still leave the Reds dangerously short of lefty bats.

If the Reds got Cameron, do you really think Stubbs would play LF? I'd guess Cameorn would play primarily LF and maybe the other spots when Bruce and Stubbs need a day off. I'm guessing Cameron would need a couple of days per week off and wouldn't be out there all the time.

mth123
11-28-2010, 01:41 PM
Elsbury doesn't have much trade value, coming off an I jury year, and about to make big money. Plus, he's really not part of their plans anymore. The Red Sox need a big bat, but in no way are counting on Elsbury as a way to get that big bat. He would only be a piece of what's needed to get one. The bigger piece would be Bard or Papelbon.

I think the Sox would love an Elsbury for Alonso deal. Alonso is their type of hitter, would be a great replecement for Ortiz, and would thrive on Pesky's Pole.

They have their own version of Alonso in Lars Anderson. Maybe they could add him to the deal for Gonzalez and Keep Alonso.

I'm not really a guy who likes the speed oriented types in the OF corners, but, if that what you are suggesting is true, I'd deal Alonso for Ellsbury straight up ASAP before anyone wakes up. The bar is pretty high at 1B and a guy needs to be an elite hitter to be much more than run of the mill. Guys like Adam Laroche and Lyle Overbay are out there evey year and Alonso could end up as a very successful draft pick and still be not much more than that. This year alone we have Konerko, Pena, Laroche, Overbay, Dunn, Lee, Berkman, Branyan, Thome, Wigginton, Cantu, Tejada and Nick Johnson all out there and that doesn't count the already signed Victor Martinez and Aubrey Huff. Most teams have a young up and comer of their own in their system or already entrenched at 1B and if the Reds could get Ellsbury for Alonso, they should do it right away IMO.

lollipopcurve
11-28-2010, 03:09 PM
Most teams have a young up and comer of their own in their system or already entrenched at 1B and if the Reds could get Ellsbury for Alonso, they should do it right away IMO.

No chance of their being able to peddle Alonso for Ellsbury. Sox have Lars Anderson and Anthony Rizzo as 1B prospects -- and Alonso has not separated himself with any certainty from guys like that as of yet. Red Sox have bigger fish to fry.

It makes sense for the Reds to continue to develop Alonso at AAA. Hopefully he puts up big numbers in 2011 and makes himself a real option for teams looking for a young 1b/DH who can step right into a major league lineup. He's not quite there yet.

membengal
11-28-2010, 03:26 PM
I have no idea about how things matchup for deals between boston and cincy, I just know that Ellsbury in LF scratches me where I itch with regard to the 2011 cincinnati reds. An OF of Ellsbury/Stubbs/Bruce would be something to hang a hat on going forward. And Ellsbury gives the club the leadoff hitter they desire.

mth123
11-28-2010, 03:41 PM
No chance of their being able to peddle Alonso for Ellsbury. Sox have Lars Anderson and Anthony Rizzo as 1B prospects -- and Alonso has not separated himself with any certainty from guys like that as of yet. Red Sox have bigger fish to fry.

It makes sense for the Reds to continue to develop Alonso at AAA. Hopefully he puts up big numbers in 2011 and makes himself a real option for teams looking for a young 1b/DH who can step right into a major league lineup. He's not quite there yet.

Agree, That was kind of my point. The return for Alonso would probably be much less than Ellsbury. He's just not special at a position where pretty good is just ho hum. If a deal like that would be on the table, the Reds should jump at it.

Alonso would be a good guy in a package with say Leake for a bigger fish than Ellsbury, but not sure a straight-up deal would fly.

mdccclxix
11-28-2010, 03:55 PM
Ellsbury is a nice player, but coming off an injury plagued season I don't like trading a guy like Alonso for him. I also don't think his OBP skills are so outstanding that it would be worth unloading Alonso. As we all saw with Taveras, speed and health are not a guaranteed commodities going forward, and Dusty isn't the most run happy manager either. I don't think Ellsbury would be the right player for the Reds in LF. Without the steals he's just a 4th outfielder to me.

mth123
11-28-2010, 04:09 PM
Ellsbury is a nice player, but coming off an injury plagued season I don't like trading a guy like Alonso for him. I also don't think his OBP skills are so outstanding that it would be worth unloading Alonso. As we all saw with Taveras, speed and health are not a guaranteed commodities going forward, and Dusty isn't the most run happy manager either. I don't think Ellsbury would be the right player for the Reds in LF. Without the steals he's just a 4th outfielder to me.

Assuming 2010 is a lost season, Ellsbury's 2009 had him with a .355 OBP and a .415 Slugging %. As lead-off guys go that isn't bad and a move to the NL should give those numbers a slight boost. The steals themselves mean very little IMO. I'd just as soon the guys at the top of the Reds order stay put and leave the big hole between 1B and 2B while guys are holding him on and not risk getting thrown out in front of Votto and Bruce (who are likely to drive guys in with extra base hits). Save all that risky running non-sense for the bottom of the order where they actually need to steal to help them get around the bases.

From that standpoint, I kind of agree about Ellsbury not being may favorite target, but what do you seriously think Alonso would bring back in a deal? He's a promising bat where most prospects are promising bats, nearly every team has one and even the ones that carry it to the big leagues are just ordinary unless they reach the upper echelon. Sean Casey was a really promising bat once upon a time and spent most of his career in the bottom half of regular 1B production. I don't see teams giving up a whole lot for Alonso and he's of no use to the Reds playing 1B in AAA. This is the year for the Reds to go for it. First good deal that comes along that improves the major league product, and Alonso should be on his way out of town IMO.

TheNext44
11-28-2010, 04:12 PM
No chance of their being able to peddle Alonso for Ellsbury. Sox have Lars Anderson and Anthony Rizzo as 1B prospects -- and Alonso has not separated himself with any certainty from guys like that as of yet. Red Sox have bigger fish to fry.

It makes sense for the Reds to continue to develop Alonso at AAA. Hopefully he puts up big numbers in 2011 and makes himself a real option for teams looking for a young 1b/DH who can step right into a major league lineup. He's not quite there yet.

Alonso is a top 50 MLB prospect while Anderson is more of a top 100, and Rizzo is years away from the majors. Alonso has separated himself from most 1B prospects by having a much better OPB than most, which usually means he's a more finished hitter, and more MLB ready. Every team may have a 1B prospect, but Alonso is easily in the top 5 in the majors among 1B prospects. Plus the Sawks love high OBP guys.

And remember Elsbury is damaged goods both physically and in his relationship with the Sawks. He will not be a Red Sox next year, and everyone knows it. His trade value is much lower than it has ever been.

thatcoolguy_22
11-28-2010, 07:36 PM
I would be all over an Alonso for Ellsbury deal. Ellsbury and his .350+ OBP and solid glove would be a boon for the Reds lineup/defense.

Benihana
11-28-2010, 09:06 PM
I would be all over an Alonso for Ellsbury deal. Ellsbury and his .350+ OBP and solid glove would be a boon for the Reds lineup/defense.

Ditto. I like power over speed in the corners, but if Alonso could fetch Ellsbury straight up than it's a no-brainer IMO. The key to watch is whether Beltre re-signs with the Sox. If he doesn't, they could move Youk to 3B which would open up a spot for Yonder.

RedsManRick
11-28-2010, 09:20 PM
Ditto. I like power over speed in the corners, but if Alonso could fetch Ellsbury straight up than it's a no-brainer IMO. The key to watch is whether Beltre re-signs with the Sox. If he doesn't, they could move Youk to 3B which would open up a spot for Yonder.

Even then, is Alonso enough of an upgrade over Lars Anderson to make it worth it for them?

Spitball
11-28-2010, 09:36 PM
Even then, is Alonso enough of an upgrade over Lars Anderson to make it worth it for them?

No...not even close. We are talking about the Red Sox trying to keep pace with the Yankees and move ahead of the Jays. If Ellsbury can't bring more than Alonso's mere promise, they will hold onto him. If he is traded, it will not be for a prospect...especially not a first base prospect.

Though the Sox really seem to like Anderson, he was rated much higher last year before he slipped last season. That is a lesson that won't be lost on any one year evaluation of Alonso.

Mario-Rijo
11-28-2010, 09:46 PM
Well let's see here it's the AL so the Sox could play both Anderson and Alonso and they need some pop. Also Alonso is a natural fit to knock balls off of the Monster for years to come. I think Boston would want a bit more (maybe an arm like Burton who is undervalued by the Reds and it's fans) because they can based on perception but I think they can see Alonso for what he can be after they coach him up a bit. I'd say it's a very interesting match and one that could get done.

Spitball
11-28-2010, 10:15 PM
Well let's see here it's the AL so the Sox could play both Anderson and Alonso and they need some pop. Also Alonso is a natural fit to knock balls off of the Monster for years to come. I think Boston would want a bit more (maybe an arm like Burton who is undervalued by the Reds and it's fans) because they can based on perception but I think they can see Alonso for what he can be after they coach him up a bit. I'd say it's a very interesting match and one that could get done.

I can't think of a recent time in the Sox history that they have traded a viable starter from their line-up for a prospect and an injury prone reliever. They are not likely to settle for a Alonso/Anderson platoon when they have their eyes set on on Adrian Gonzalez or Prince Fielder.

If Alonso has a full year of really monster production at triple A, I can see him as a real enticing trade chip. Right now, he is not going to bring an Ellsbury or other starting player from the Yankees or the Red Sox.

TheNext44
11-28-2010, 10:33 PM
Elsbury is no longer a starter for the Red Sox. They are going to trade him. They like Reddick and that other young CF better.

I agree with the evaluation of Alonso, but I think people are overvaluing Elsbury. The Red Sox Alonso alone will not get him, but it won't take much more. Someone like Bray.

REDblooded
11-28-2010, 11:09 PM
The shine is totally off of Lars Anderson right now... I'd definitely argue that Yonder has more value as a prospect than Lars...

Topcat
11-28-2010, 11:16 PM
If such a deal came down I would offer Wood before I offer Leake.

Spitball
11-28-2010, 11:23 PM
Elsbury is no longer a starter for the Red Sox. They are going to trade him. They like Reddick and that other young CF better.

That is not true, Ellsbury has not lost his starting job. If the season starts tomorrow and Ellsbury is healthy, he is in left or centerfield. Josh Reddick, Ryan Kalish, and Daniel Nava might have futures with the Sox, but not one has performed well enough to dislodge Ellsbury.

In fact, Ellsbury is probably the only sure thing in their unsettled outfield for 2011. Cameron and Drew are old and injury prone. McDonald and Patterson are minor league fill-ins. Ellsbury is the only one who you can count on to be in their outfield if not traded for a proven offensive force such as Adrian Gonzalez.



I agree with the evaluation of Alonso, but I think people are overvaluing Elsbury. The Red Sox Alonso alone will not get him, but it won't take much more. Someone like Bray.

Alonso and Bray will not bring Ellsbury to Cincinnati. The Red Sox are in the most competitive division in baseball and have the financial ability not to trade starters for players with mere potential. Now, they may listen on Joey Votto...but not a prospect like Alonso..and especially not for a suspect like Bray.

Spitball
11-28-2010, 11:42 PM
The shine is totally off of Lars Anderson right now... I'd definitely argue that Yonder has more value as a prospect than Lars...

But what does that tell the Red Sox? Anderson was also a top 50 prospect a year ago and now has slipped to the top 100.

They do not have to even play that game with position players. They can bring in proven players. Youkilis, Pedroia and Ellsbury are home grown. For the past several years, most positions have been filled by high priced imports.

mdccclxix
11-29-2010, 12:45 AM
Assuming 2010 is a lost season, Ellsbury's 2009 had him with a .355 OBP and a .415 Slugging %. As lead-off guys go that isn't bad and a move to the NL should give those numbers a slight boost. The steals themselves mean very little IMO. I'd just as soon the guys at the top of the Reds order stay put and leave the big hole between 1B and 2B while guys are holding him on and not risk getting thrown out in front of Votto and Bruce (who are likely to drive guys in with extra base hits). Save all that risky running non-sense for the bottom of the order where they actually need to steal to help them get around the bases.

From that standpoint, I kind of agree about Ellsbury not being may favorite target, but what do you seriously think Alonso would bring back in a deal? He's a promising bat where most prospects are promising bats, nearly every team has one and even the ones that carry it to the big leagues are just ordinary unless they reach the upper echelon. Sean Casey was a really promising bat once upon a time and spent most of his career in the bottom half of regular 1B production. I don't see teams giving up a whole lot for Alonso and he's of no use to the Reds playing 1B in AAA. This is the year for the Reds to go for it. First good deal that comes along that improves the major league product, and Alonso should be on his way out of town IMO.

In 2009, Ellsbury was the 19th highest OPS lead off hitter (min 350 PA). And despite 52 stolen bases, and a .347 OBP (good for only 18th) he only scored 75 runs for the Sox. With his injury issues, falling out with management, and apparent middling status as a leadoff guy, I think he's overvalued and has a strong chance for buyer's remorse.

Alonso may not be a match for the Sox, why force it? We can just keep him in AAA for insurance and it would be more valuable than trading for Ellsbury, IMO. He'll perform there and retain some value. Or trade him in a package for a better player.

kpresidente
11-29-2010, 09:05 AM
Now, they may listen on Joey Votto...

Yeah, they may just give a listen on Votto. Maybe pick up the phone.

Maybe.

:thumbdown

blumj
11-29-2010, 10:49 AM
Yeah, they may just give a listen on Votto. Maybe pick up the phone.

Maybe.

:thumbdown

I'm no language expert, but I would assume that was meant to be hyperbole? You're suppose to get a little chuckle over the massive understatement?

RedsManRick
11-29-2010, 01:02 PM
The shine is totally off of Lars Anderson right now... I'd definitely argue that Yonder has more value as a prospect than Lars...

That's sort of the point. There's more than a touch of homerism in our thinking that Alonso is very highly valued. If he didn't have the 1st round pedigree, how much of a prospect would he be based on what he's done? He'd still be pretty well regarded, but would he considered a top prospect?

He's limited to 1B and not a defensive asset there. He doesn't have elite power. His upside is basically Billy Butler, right? Ellsbury has been an above average major league regular. Alonso has a shot at being an above average major league regular.

That sort of a trade lacks upside for the Red Sox. I could see that sort of a deal happening mid-season for a team trying to capitalize on an arb eligible guy before he gets expensive. But if you're the Sox, aren't you still gunning for a real impact guy at 1B, namely Adrian Gonzalez or Prince Fielder? And isn't Ellsbury one of the, if not the, key chits there? I just don't see this making sense from the Sox perspective in light of the alternatives.

camisadelgolf
11-29-2010, 01:15 PM
That's sort of the point. There's more than a touch of homerism in our thinking that Alonso is very highly valued. If he didn't have the 1st round pedigree, how much of a prospect would he be based on what he's done? He'd still be pretty well regarded, but would he considered a top prospect?

He's limited to 1B and not a defensive asset there. He doesn't have elite power. His upside is basically Billy Butler, right? Ellsbury has been an above average major league regular. Alonso has a shot at being an above average major league regular.

That sort of a trade lacks upside for the Red Sox. I could see that sort of a deal happening mid-season for a team trying to capitalize on an arb eligible guy before he gets expensive. But if you're the Sox, aren't you still gunning for a real impact guy at 1B, namely Adrian Gonzalez or Prince Fielder? And isn't Ellsbury one of the, if not the, key chits there? I just don't see this making sense from the Sox perspective in light of the alternatives.
I agree with you, but as a side note, I've seen Alonso play a number of times, and his defense has come a long way. He was certainly one of the better defenders in AAA the last few times I saw him.

TheNext44
11-29-2010, 01:53 PM
That is not true, Ellsbury has not lost his starting job. If the season starts tomorrow and Ellsbury is healthy, he is in left or centerfield. Josh Reddick, Ryan Kalish, and Daniel Nava might have futures with the Sox, but not one has performed well enough to dislodge Ellsbury.

In fact, Ellsbury is probably the only sure thing in their unsettled outfield for 2011. Cameron and Drew are old and injury prone. McDonald and Patterson are minor league fill-ins. Ellsbury is the only one who you can count on to be in their outfield if not traded for a proven offensive force such as Adrian Gonzalez.
Alonso and Bray will not bring Ellsbury to Cincinnati. The Red Sox are in the most competitive division in baseball and have the financial ability not to trade starters for players with mere potential. Now, they may listen on Joey Votto...but not a prospect like Alonso..and especially not for a suspect like Bray.

Ellsbury will be traded. Maybe they only want to use him as a piece in a trade for a big expensive bat like Fielder or Gonzalez, but the Red Sox are not counting on him to be starting for them next season. They have soured on him.

TheNext44
11-29-2010, 02:04 PM
That's sort of the point. There's more than a touch of homerism in our thinking that Alonso is very highly valued. If he didn't have the 1st round pedigree, how much of a prospect would he be based on what he's done? He'd still be pretty well regarded, but would he considered a top prospect?
He's limited to 1B and not a defensive asset there. He doesn't have elite power. His upside is basically Billy Butler, right? Ellsbury has been an above average major league regular. Alonso has a shot at being an above average major league regular.
That sort of a trade lacks upside for the Red Sox. I could see that sort of a deal happening mid-season for a team trying to capitalize on an arb eligible guy before he gets expensive. But if you're the Sox, aren't you still gunning for a real impact guy at 1B, namely Adrian Gonzalez or Prince Fielder? And isn't Ellsbury one of the, if not the, key chits there? I just don't see this making sense from the Sox perspective in light of the alternatives.

You might be right that the Red Sox would only want to use Ellsbury as a piece for a big expensive bat, but he wouldnt be the center point of the deal. His value has dropped significantly in the last year. He was injured and no one knows if he is fully recovered, plus, he seems to be closer to a league average CF than an above average one. He's projects, even if he comes back strong from his injury, to be a .750 OPS, league average defensive CF. That has a lot of value, but that places him in the middle of the pack of CF'ers.

Alonso does project to have power, remember he is coming off a hand injury and right about the time he was expected to show power again he did. There is one big difference between him and Lars. Alonso reached AAA, and dominated the second half of the season when he was fully healthy. Lars reached AAA and flopped.

I agree that Alonso only projects as a league average 1B, but he seems to be pretty much there already, he just needs to play regularly. I only see Ellsbury as more valuable because he plays a more valuable position. But they both are league average players, and Alonso is cheaper and under team control for three years longer.

Alonso might not be what the Red Sox are looking for, but value wise, they matchup pretty well.

Spitball
11-29-2010, 09:03 PM
Ellsbury will be traded.


...but the Red Sox are not counting on him to be starting for them next season. They have soured on him.

Where are you getting this insider information??? We have all seen the rumors that the Red Sox have soured on Ellsbury, but where are the reports that take these rumors to the absolute status you are reporting?

The Red Sox have a lot of question marks this off season. Among those unanswered questions are, who will play first base, third base, left field, center field, shortstop, and who will catch? Ellsbury very well could be included in a trade for one of those major components needed for the upcoming season...but he won't be traded for the sake of banishing him. He is still their best leadoff option and the best defensive option in left field on a team that values defense. For the Sox, winning will be more important than punishing Ellsbury for only playng 18 games last year.

Ryan Kalish is a very promising young outfielder and so is Josh Reddick, but they have not proven enough to have taken Ellsbury's job. If anything, the Sox learned in 2010 the importance of quality depth in the outfield.

If the Sox do add Crawford or Werth or can trade for Upton (or the like), Ellsbury becomes more available. For right now, he is in their outfield plans.

TheNext44
11-29-2010, 10:28 PM
Where are you getting this insider information??? We have all seen the rumors that the Red Sox have soured on Ellsbury, but where are the reports that take these rumors to the absolute status you are reporting?

The Red Sox have a lot of question marks this off season. Among those unanswered questions are, who will play first base, third base, left field, center field, shortstop, and who will catch? Ellsbury very well could be included in a trade for one of those major components needed for the upcoming season...but he won't be traded for the sake of banishing him. He is still their best leadoff option and the best defensive option in left field on a team that values defense. For the Sox, winning will be more important than punishing Ellsbury for only playng 18 games last year.

Ryan Kalish is a very promising young outfielder and so is Josh Reddick, but they have not proven enough to have taken Ellsbury's job. If anything, the Sox learned in 2010 the importance of quality depth in the outfield.

If the Sox do add Crawford or Werth or can trade for Upton (or the like), Ellsbury becomes more available. For right now, he is in their outfield plans.

My apologies. I should have put "imo" in that sentence.

But I woud bet better than even money that he traded. The fact that the Red Sox have been linked to every Crawford and Werth rumors is the main reason why.

Spitball
11-29-2010, 11:17 PM
My apologies. I should have put "imo" in that sentence.

But I woud bet better than even money that he traded. The fact that the Red Sox have been linked to every Crawford and Werth rumors is the main reason why.

He very well may be traded. As has been noted, the Red Sox have holes to fill and Ellsbury is a valuable trading chip.

But getting rid of him opens up other problems. Do they really want to compete against the Yankees with Scutaro leading off? Even if they sign either Crawford or Werth, do the defense minded Sox trust an aging Mike Cameron or unproven Ryan Kalish in center?

You may be right, and he will be gone from Boston. Until some pieces fall into place, I just don't see it as a given.

Blitz Dorsey
11-29-2010, 11:55 PM
Are the Red Sox still giving away good players for bottom-feeders like Wily Mo? If so, we might be in business. ;-)

Seriously, I would love to land Ellsbury as the LF and leadoff hitter. But I just don't see it happening. It's fun to dream though. Ellsbury-Stubbs-Bruce would be one heck of a starting OF (both offensively and defensively) and Gomes would make a pretty solid #4 OF. The Reds also have Heisey if Gomes falters, or just for added depth. But no question they need a LF/leadoff hitter and even Jocketty has been outspoken about it. It will be interesting to see who the Reds get, but getting someone like Ellsbury would be great. He is a bit of a free-swinger though for a leadoff guy, FYI.

Eric_the_Red
11-30-2010, 12:42 AM
The BoSox need a catcher. Is Mesoraco for Ellsbury too much?

Ron Madden
11-30-2010, 04:12 AM
I guess I give more credit to the Red Sox FO than some folks do.

They are not about to just give Ellsbury away.

membengal
11-30-2010, 05:29 AM
The BoSox need a catcher. Is Mesoraco for Ellsbury too much?

great googily moogily. yes, in my opinion, way too much.

mth123
11-30-2010, 06:25 AM
The BoSox need a catcher. Is Mesoraco for Ellsbury too much?

Too much IMO.

camisadelgolf
11-30-2010, 10:17 AM
great googily moogily. yes, in my opinion, way too much.
Really? I was thinking it wouldn't be enough.

Blitz Dorsey
11-30-2010, 12:21 PM
I seriously doubt Devin Mesoraco would be "too much" to give up for Ellsbury. The latter is a proven MLBer and is still young. The former has had one good (although it was really good) minor league season. If anything, I think that would be a fair trade or in the Reds' favor. I certainly don't think the Reds would turn that down if the Sox offered it. (Especially considering the fact the Reds used their 2010 first-round pick on a catcher.)

membengal
11-30-2010, 04:23 PM
Mes about to show up on top 50 lists of best prospects, and prob third or so best catching prospect in baseball. In addition, scouts say he will stick at catcher, unlike 1 or 2 ahead of him on that list. Last time reds had a catching prospect that high homegrown? Got me. Been a long time. And catching remains a premium position that if it can be filled in-house, well, for a club w/ limited resources like the reds, it puts a huge value on mesoraco. And makes him worth, in my view, way more than ellsbury. And I like ellsbury. A lot.

camisadelgolf
11-30-2010, 04:36 PM
Ellsbury was once the #13 prospect in all of baseball according to BA. Just sayin'.

bucksfan2
11-30-2010, 05:05 PM
Ellsbury was once the #13 prospect in all of baseball according to BA. Just sayin'.

And what was Corey Paterson? Just askin'

IslandRed
11-30-2010, 05:44 PM
And catching remains a premium position that if it can be filled in-house, well, for a club w/ limited resources like the reds, it puts a huge value on mesoraco. And makes him worth, in my view, way more than ellsbury. And I like ellsbury. A lot.

Agree. I like Ellsbury, but Mesoraco has a chance to provide way more value to the Reds. Now, it may not happen, but as always with prospects, it comes down to an organization knowing its possible gold from its probable pyrite.

blumj
11-30-2010, 05:45 PM
Ellsbury was once the #13 prospect in all of baseball according to BA. Just sayin'.
If I remember right, Salty was up there back then, too.

camisadelgolf
11-30-2010, 05:47 PM
If I remember right, Salty was up there back then, too.
His peak was pre-2006 at #18.

mdccclxix
11-30-2010, 06:00 PM
Rajai Davis, a very similar player to Ellsbury, was recently traded for 2 AA relievers. I don't get the Ellsbury love here. He's a decent, not great, player. No way is Alonso fair value for the Reds. Alonso only makes sense because Votto is here blocking him. Mesoraco is totally nuts for Ellsbury as well. I'd say, maybe Heisey and DRH.

mth123
11-30-2010, 09:35 PM
Rajai Davis, a very similar player to Ellsbury, was recently traded for 2 AA relievers. I don't get the Ellsbury love here. He's a decent, not great, player. No way is Alonso fair value for the Reds. Alonso only makes sense because Votto is here blocking him. Mesoraco is totally nuts for Ellsbury as well. I'd say, maybe Heisey and DRH.

Personally, I'd rather keep Heisey and deal Alonso. The thing about 1B is that if a guy isn't elite, then he's an interchangeable part. At this point, Alonso is an interchangeable part. I'd rather have Heisey.

HokieRed
11-30-2010, 09:55 PM
I don't understand the Ellsbury love either. I wouldn't deal either Alonso or Mesoraco for him, but then my evaluation of Alonso is much higher than RZ's average.

penantboundreds
12-02-2010, 07:07 PM
I would rather a guy like Ellsbury in left field then bank on a prospect to pan out...

I would give up Alonso rather quickly to get Jacoby...a .350+ OBP with some pop and the ability to fill two huge holes with one player. - He was a 4 win player in 2008 and 3 win player in 2009.

Bill James line for next year has him at .300/.355/ with 59 SB's - that would be awfully nice for not giving up anything to the nucleus that took us to the playoffs last year