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Mario-Rijo
12-03-2010, 05:22 AM
Didn't see this anywhere. Go shopping people, I like Fred Lewis as our 5th OF and LH bat off the bench. Of course I suppose he'll get a better opportunity and more money elsewhere. Very happy to not see Burton on this list.

LINK (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20101203&content_id=16245688&vkey=news_mlb)


2010 NON-TENDER LIST

AMERICAN LEAGUE
Baltimore: Matt Albers, RHP

Boston: Taylor Buchholz, RHP; Andrew Miller, LHP; Hideki Okajima, LHP

New York Yankees: Alfredo Aceves, RHP; Dustin Moseley, RHP

Tampa Bay: Willy Aybar, IF/DH; Lance Cormier, RHP; J.P. Howell, LHP; Dioner Navarro, C

Toronto: Jeremy Accardo, RHP; Fred Lewis, OF

White Sox: Bobby Jenks, RHP; Erick Threets, LHP

Cleveland: None.

Detroit: Zach Miner, RHP

Kansas City: Josh Fields, IF

Minnesota: None.

Angels: Kevin Frandsen, IF

Oakland: Travis Buck, OF; Jack Cust, DH/OF; Edwin Encarnacion, IF;

Seattle: Ryan Rowland-Smith, LHP

Texas: Dustin Nippert, RHP

NATIONAL LEAGUE
Atlanta: Matt Diaz, OF

Florida: Ronny Paulino, C; Jose Veras, RHP

Mets: Chris Carter, OF; Sean Green, RHP; John Maine, RHP

Washington: Wil Nieves, C; Joel Peralta, RHP; Chien-Ming Wang, RHP

Philadelphia: None.

Cubs: None.

Cincinnati: None.

Houston: Sammy Gervacio, RHP

Milwaukee: Todd Coffey, RHP; Joe Inglett, IF/OF

Pittsburgh: Brian Burres, LHP; Argenis Diaz, IF; Lastings Milledge, OF; Donnie Veal, LHP

St. Louis: None.

Arizona: Blaine Boyer, RHP; D.J. Carrasco, RHP; Ryan Church, OF; Augie Ojeda, IF

Colorado: Manny Delcarmen, RHP

Dodgers: Russell Martin, C; Trent Oeltjen, OF; George Sherrill, LHP

San Diego: Matt Antonelli, IF; Tony Gwynn Jr., OF; Scott Hairston, OF; Luis Perdomo, RHP

San Francisco: Chris Ray, RHP; Eugenio Velez, IF

mth123
12-03-2010, 05:49 AM
Josh Fields as the caddy for Rolen and a back-up to Votto?

Lewis in LF and leading off?

Ryan Church or Travis Buck as a lefty hitting bench OF?

Lastings Milledge for the OF mix?

Willy Aybar, a switch hitter who can play 1B, 3B and even 2B in a pinch, sort of Cairo with some pop and can switch hit?

Minor league deals might work for some of these guys.

Too bad the Reds rushed to sign Ramon. Russell Martin for the same $3 Million would look good. Ronny Paulino for less would look good too.

Griffey012
12-03-2010, 08:46 AM
Wouldn't mind seeing Jack Cust picked up as a bat off the bench, part time player in LF if we don't get anyone to fill the spot out there. His defense would likely be in Gomes territory, but he gets on base at a ridiculous clip and has some nice pop.

hebroncougar
12-03-2010, 09:31 AM
I'd be all over Milledge and Russell Martin. I'd take a flyer on Andrew Miller. Man, I wish the Reds would have passed on Hernandez now.

Dan
12-03-2010, 10:04 AM
Wouldn't mind seeing Jack Cust picked up as a bat off the bench, part time player in LF if we don't get anyone to fill the spot out there. His defense would likely be in Gomes territory, but he gets on base at a ridiculous clip and has some nice pop.

I'm with you. I think Cust (http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/c/custja01.shtml) would fit well in LF as a platoon player. We'd have to live with the defense, but considering the Reds have above average defense at virtually every other position, I think the trade off is worth it.

Benihana
12-03-2010, 10:41 AM
I'd be all over Milledge and Russell Martin. I'd take a flyer on Andrew Miller. Man, I wish the Reds would have passed on Hernandez now.

This.

Think the Dodgers would trade Kemp for Mesoraco straight up? Would the Reds? Maybe Hanigan and Alonso (instead of Mesoraco by himself) would make more sense for both sides?

Edd Roush
12-03-2010, 10:42 AM
I'd be all over Milledge and Russell Martin. I'd take a flyer on Andrew Miller. Man, I wish the Reds would have passed on Hernandez now.

Didn't the Red Sox just trade for Andrew Miller? I don't understand why you would trade for a former top prospect and then non-tender him.

Edd Roush
12-03-2010, 10:45 AM
Too bad the Reds rushed to sign Ramon. Russell Martin for the same $3 Million would look good. Ronny Paulino for less would look good too.

Don't see Russel Martin taking $3 Million on an open market after making $5 Million last year. Granted, he hasn't slugged for anything since 2008, but he can still reach base well for a catcher.

camisadelgolf
12-03-2010, 10:48 AM
Didn't the Red Sox just trade for Andrew Miller? I don't understand why you would trade for a former top prospect and then non-tender him.
They probably had no plans for the player they traded and wanted negotiating rights for Miller.

reds1869
12-03-2010, 11:25 AM
I hear that Encarnacion kid is pretty good. :p:

I would definitely take a shot at Milledge, Martin and Miller. I also wouldn't mind taking a minor league swipe at Gervacio. If his control can ever catch up to his stuff (and he can stay healthy) he will be a nasty reliever.

camisadelgolf
12-03-2010, 11:35 AM
I was big-time on the Gervacio wagon, but I have doubts about him due to the health of his arm. Lastings Milledge is redundant thanks to Chris Heisey. Russell Martin would've been viable had the Reds not re-signed Hernandez. I never liked Andrew Miller as a prospect, but it wouldn't bother me to see him signed to a minor league contract. Maybe his calling is as a relief pitcher.

camisadelgolf
12-03-2010, 11:37 AM
Fred Lewis pretty much looks like Lance Nix' equal to me. He'd be good to have on the team, but ideally, there is an upgrade available.

PuffyPig
12-03-2010, 11:46 AM
Too bad the Reds rushed to sign Ramon. Russell Martin for the same $3 Million would look good.


Firstly, we don't know if Martin can be had for $3M.

Secondly, we don't know if we could outbid every other team for him. it's quite the risk to let hernandez go on the basis of martin possibly being non-tendered and possibly signing with us.

Thirdly, Martin was really bad last year, his OPS was more than 100 points less than Hernandez. And he's been bad for a few years.

Martin isn't a bad player per se, but I'm still happy we signed Hernadez.

RedsManRick
12-03-2010, 12:09 PM
Why in the world would the Nats release Joel Peralta? Dude was lights out last year and wasn't exactly in line for a huge raise.

HokieRed
12-03-2010, 12:26 PM
Why in the world would the Nats release Joel Peralta? Dude was lights out last year and wasn't exactly in line for a huge raise.

Really puzzling. Reds should definitely be trying to figure out what's going on here.

camisadelgolf
12-03-2010, 12:38 PM
Why in the world would the Nats release Joel Peralta? Dude was lights out last year and wasn't exactly in line for a huge raise.
He's an extreme flyball pitcher, doesn't throw hard, will have a bad defense behind him next year, and largely relies on a lucky BABIP for his success. He still should've been tendered--if not for anything else, to be traded--but I'm guessing this year was a fluke.

TheNext44
12-03-2010, 12:59 PM
Want no part of Martin. Beyond toast. It was sad to watch him here in LA. Really has no viable skills left, not even defensively.

RedsManRick
12-03-2010, 01:40 PM
He's an extreme flyball pitcher, doesn't through hard, will have a bad defense behind him next year, and largely relies on a lucky BABIP for his success. He still should've been tendered--if not for anything else, to be traded--but I'm guessing this year was a fluke.

Sure, his 2ish ERA was helped big time by luck. By being a flyball pitcher in a big park is a good thing and his 9.00 K/9 and 1.65 BB/9 suggest a guy who made some very real, sustainable improvements which support a strong ERA moving forward.

As you say, it's not that he's suddenly an ace reliever, but that for $1M, he's a very solid asset if nothing else.

schroomytunes
12-03-2010, 01:45 PM
Guys I like:

OF) Fred Lewis-platoon with Gomes
INF) Josh Fields-1b/3b bat off the bench, Rolen insurance
RP) DJ Carrasco, Bobby Jenks

edabbs44
12-03-2010, 02:06 PM
Guys I like:

OF) Fred Lewis-platoon with Gomes
INF) Josh Fields-1b/3b bat off the bench, Rolen insurance
RP) DJ Carrasco, Bobby Jenks

Cairo over Fields.

Griffey012
12-03-2010, 02:42 PM
Cairo over Fields.

Agreed, you really have no idea what to expect from Fields. He has been really, really bad in all his major league stints, with the exception of a few AB's last season. He reminds me a lot of our long lost friend Brandon Larson.

mth123
12-03-2010, 09:02 PM
Agreed, you really have no idea what to expect from Fields. He has been really, really bad in all his major league stints, with the exception of a few AB's last season. He reminds me a lot of our long lost friend Brandon Larson.

Sounds a lot like the description of Cairo. Really really bad for his career except for a few ABs last year. Cairo, like Ramon, is another guy with all downside. Team needs to take a shot to improve. Settling for status quo at best just won't get it done.

Griffey012
12-04-2010, 10:43 AM
Sounds a lot like the description of Cairo. Really really bad for his career except for a few ABs last year. Cairo, like Ramon, is another guy with all downside. Team needs to take a shot to improve. Settling for status quo at best just won't get it done.

Taking a shot to improve is what we did many many times from 2000-2007ish. We always had a collection of players that we had acquired or picked up after other teams DFA'd or non-tendered them that we "hoped" played up to their potential, or had a sudden drastic improvement. There is nothing wrong with keeping the status quo in some areas when all you did the previous season was make the playoffs for the first time in 15 years.

LF and SS are the big areas to try and improve, we can't take a flier at every position or improve every position.

mth123
12-04-2010, 11:26 AM
Taking a shot to improve is what we did many many times from 2000-2007ish. We always had a collection of players that we had acquired or picked up after other teams DFA'd or non-tendered them that we "hoped" played up to their potential, or had a sudden drastic improvement. There is nothing wrong with keeping the status quo in some areas when all you did the previous season was make the playoffs for the first time in 15 years.

LF and SS are the big areas to try and improve, we can't take a flier at every position or improve every position.

I'd say filling the roster with filler types who had no upside but were cheap is a lot of what resulted in the lost decade. It wasn't until the Reds took a shot with some scrap heap youngsters with upside (Phillips, Massett even Arroyo who was out of Boston's plans) and brought the kids on from the minors that things started to turn around. Late 30's guys who have spent their career OPSing in the .600s is not what a team needs to improve. If the frontline players were good enough, filling the roster would be ok, but the Reds still need to take a shot. There are huge questions in LF and SS as you point out and IMO catcher will be a problem in 2011. The rotation is filled with question marks behind Arroyo and Cueto and the big money closer looks like he's beginning a quick decline. The core is ready to win and I'm confident that some of the question marks in the rotation will come through (just not sure which ones) but the team still needs more talent with upside IMO. Signing Ramon, extending Arroyo and the probable re-upping of Cairo are all moves with little or no upside and create obstacles to adding upside IMO.

I think giving the 25th man spot to a kid with a lot of upside is about as low risk a way to try to improve as possible. The kid develops and forces his way in and the team has a player that can help them take it up a notch. He crashes and burns, there is Francisco, Valaika, Frazier, Negron or somebody else to give a shot to. Cairo is OK, but where is any improvement going to come from when committing a roster spot to guys like him.

A lot of things went right last year and even with that, the Reds were a team that made the play-offs by playing in, and beating up on, a bad division. They were horrid against good teams and clearly outclassed in the post season. The team is at the point of needing to try to go to the next level. The window closes in a couple of years. Status quo right now is not the way to go IMO.

kaldaniels
12-04-2010, 11:29 AM
A team like Florida whose priority is making money, not producing wins, could really go to town on players like these. You could probably book a 70 win season with a team composed of these players so long as the pitching staff isn't totally rotten.

And probably make tens of millions in the process.

OnBaseMachine
12-05-2010, 01:55 AM
Guys that interest me:

Andrew Miller, Willy Aybar, J.P. Howell (currently injured though), Bobby Jenks, Travis Buck, Joel Peralta, Russell Martin, Scott Hairston

Mario-Rijo
12-05-2010, 08:15 AM
Guys that interest me:

Andrew Miller, Willy Aybar, J.P. Howell (currently injured though), Bobby Jenks, Travis Buck, Joel Peralta, Russell Martin, Scott Hairston

I like Hairston better than Gomes that's for sure. Though I'd like to sign Lewis and platoon he and Heisey.