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View Full Version : Cards sign Lance Berkman



arkimadee
12-04-2010, 06:26 PM
Per Ken Rosenthall.. Interesting.

MikeThierry
12-04-2010, 06:46 PM
Another move providing depth, though it looks like he will be starting outfielder. Could be used at 3rd as well. He isn't what he used to be but I sort of like a lineup that has Berkman, Pujols, Holliday, and Rasmus.

Hondo
12-04-2010, 06:59 PM
Well the Cards had a hole in Right Field so this is a good addition for them and could be a Great Move for Berkman.

Walt, the balls in your court.

mckbearcat48
12-04-2010, 07:49 PM
Well the Cards had a hole in Right Field so this is a good addition for them and could be a Great Move for Berkman.

Walt, the balls in your court.

Like a big chess game...Cincy, your move.

757690
12-04-2010, 08:02 PM
Berkman hasn't played the outfield in 4 years, and he was terrible at it then. He also coming off an injury filled sub-.800 OPS year.

Coming off the bench, for around $2-3M a year, maybe. As the starting LF for $8M? Just a God-awful, stupid move, imo.

SullyGator
12-04-2010, 08:21 PM
Berkman hasn't played the outfield in 4 years, and he was terrible at it then. He also coming off an injury filled sub-.800 OPS year.

Coming off the bench, for around $2-3M a year, maybe. As the starting LF for $8M? Just a God-awful, stupid move, imo.

Yeah, summed up pretty well ^. Skimming through Cards forums their fans seem to be pretty happy with a veteran bat but not too happy at the $$$ thrown at him and his OF defensive liability.

scott91575
12-04-2010, 08:41 PM
Congrats, the Cards now have the worst fielding outfield in baseball and got older in the process. I suppose he could give Albert a day off here and there, but right field? You actually need an arm out there. Right field is going to be triple alley. You think Holliday is bad in left, just wait for a guy with no range and no arm manning right field.

I do love this line though....


Berkman was traded to the Yankees on July 31 and helped them win the AL wild card

That is so laughable I don't even know where to begin.

MikeThierry
12-04-2010, 08:54 PM
Holliday's fielding isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Last year he led National League outfielders in Assists and was second in total putouts. He was also 4th in Range Factor/9 innings and Frange Factor per game. He looks awkward at times fielding but he is one of the better defensive left fielders in the NL. Considering that the .995 fielding percentage is the tops in left field in the NL, Holliday's .989 fielding percentage isn't that bad. He also had the most games in left field than anyone in the NL.

Also, if you take the Fielding Bible with any validity, Matt Holliday was voted on as the 5th best defensive LF in the game.

arkimadee
12-04-2010, 09:27 PM
I don't like this move if I'm a Cards fan. Watching him the last two seasons, he just isn't the same player. Now put him in right field where he has rarley played in his career. It's not like the team needs alot of Veteran leadership either because they have Pujols, Carpenter, RightWain and Holliday. A definite head scratching move.

foxfire123
12-04-2010, 10:11 PM
My first thought when I heard this is that they're worried about Puhols..... Then my second thought was "Oh &&%%$%^$&^%! Berkman's back in the Central"..... Always hated facing him.

Vottomatic
12-04-2010, 10:28 PM
Waste of money on a guy who is done playing the OF. Glad we have a bunch of lefthanded hitters. We'll keep him running all over the place in RF.

Shocking, stupid move, IMHO. Cards management looks scared and desperate to me.

Vottomatic
12-04-2010, 10:32 PM
When the Reds trade for Choo as their new leadoff hitter, trade for Beltran to hit behind Votto, and trade for Greinke and Sir Felix Hernandez, it will be all over for the Cards. :D

SullyGator
12-04-2010, 11:31 PM
My first thought when I heard this is that they're worried about Puhols..... Then my second thought was "Oh &&%%$%^$&^%! Berkman's back in the Central"..... Always hated facing him.

Yeah, he's owned the Reds in his career. He was 5H/30AB with 3 GDP vs. the Reds in 2010 so hopefully it's a sign of that changing.

MikeThierry
12-05-2010, 05:11 AM
Looks like Berkman is being shifted to Left Field and Holliday to right. I can understand the opinions here. Its just for some reason guys who everyone thinks have been washed up thrive in St. Louis. This pickup of Berkman almost has a Larry Walker feel to it.

scott91575
12-05-2010, 06:52 AM
Looks like Berkman is being shifted to Left Field and Holliday to right. I can understand the opinions here. Its just for some reason guys who everyone thinks have been washed up thrive in St. Louis. This pickup of Berkman almost has a Larry Walker feel to it.

Except for the fact Walker had an OPS of 1.093 when he was traded to the Cards (it was Colorado, but still really good), and still had a cannon for an arm.

Razzle
12-05-2010, 07:59 AM
I'm currently on the fence on this one. He's pretty much guaranteed to give better offensive production than Jon Jay, but could give all of that back (or more) defensively. With Holliday shifted over to RF on days Berkman is playing left the team defense is weaker as well. It's also well more than I thought we'd pay for a guy like Berkman, but at least it's only a one year deal.

I guess it amounts to me being somewhat excited to see a guy I've been a fan of playing for the Cards, even if he is a shade of his former self. That combined with the potential of his OBP in front of Pujols make this deal not as bad to me as many think of it.

MikeThierry
12-05-2010, 08:31 AM
Except for the fact Walker had an OPS of 1.093 when he was traded to the Cards (it was Colorado, but still really good), and still had a cannon for an arm.

Well take your pick of old guys who seem to get a jolt playing here whether it be Will Clark, Sanders, etc. I wasn't saying that Berkman=Walker.

Razzle, I'm with you on this one. I think this could potentially be a good deal if Berkman can at least be a competent at bat. I am sure he will also be better than last year coming back from an injury. Even in his bad year, Berkman did have a .368 OBP and a .781 OPS. Heck, I'll be happy if he can produce at his 09 level in front of Pujols. The Cardinals lineup at least looks like a tough lineup with Berkman, Pujols, Holliday, Rasmus, and Freese. Certainly it is more potent than last years.

Vottomatic
12-05-2010, 08:40 AM
Berkman and Pujols will spend 1/3 to 1/2 their seasons on the DL anyway. Both are reaching the point where they are injury prone.

Razzle
12-05-2010, 04:13 PM
Berkman and Pujols will spend 1/3 to 1/2 their seasons on the DL anyway. Both are reaching the point where they are injury prone.

Pujols has played 140 games in every season of his career (including 159 and 160 the last two years). I would hardly consider him injury prone.

Old NDN
12-05-2010, 05:41 PM
I think Berkman will hit, especially in the NL Central. Defensively, he will equal Gomes in LF, even though he hasn't played much out there. As for the $$, it's not like it's our money. I think the Cards were willing to take the gamble because of need, hoping it will work out. Something the Reds haven't done yet.

arkimadee
12-05-2010, 05:53 PM
I think Berkman will hit, especially in the NL Central. Defensively, he will equal Gomes in LF, even though he hasn't played much out there. As for the $$, it's not like it's our money. I think the Cards were willing to take the gamble because of need, hoping it will work out. Something the Reds haven't done yet.
He will be playing right field more than likely. Holliday is their left fielder. i read they might even try him at 3rd base some.

scott91575
12-05-2010, 08:16 PM
I think Berkman will hit, especially in the NL Central. Defensively, he will equal Gomes in LF, even though he hasn't played much out there. As for the $$, it's not like it's our money. I think the Cards were willing to take the gamble because of need, hoping it will work out. Something the Reds haven't done yet.

You don't take chances for the sake of taking chances. Plus it's not like they didn't take a big one with Rolen. The Reds are probably not going to make a FA signing (at least one of any note). It's just not a smart move for this team. A trade on the other hand could happen, but that takes two to tango.

Yet in the end you don't just sign people for the sake of making a move. As I have pointed out, both of the Cards moves have "it's essentially the same team" written all over them. Berkman gives back any offensive advantage with his defense, and Theriot is just a weaker, very slightly better fielding version of Schumaker.

If the Cards got Crawford or Werth or any other real upgrade, I could see some worry. Yet neither deal is in that realm. Berkman could have a rebound year and suddenly find some range in the outfield, and Theriot might be able to find some tertosterone and actually hit with the power of a high schooler instead of a grade school softball player. Yet I am not sure either is likely. In the mean time Jay doesn't get a chance to develop, and the team actually stops looking for real upgrades.

Vottomatic
12-05-2010, 08:19 PM
Pujols has played 140 games in every season of his career (including 159 and 160 the last two years). I would hardly consider him injury prone.

He's due.

Typically it starts when the ink dries on his new 6 year $200M contract. Then he'll be sitting out with injuries half the season.

Razzle
12-05-2010, 11:55 PM
He's due.

Typically it starts when the ink dries on his new 6 year $200M contract. Then he'll be sitting out with injuries half the season.

If that's the situation, why would I care as a Cards fan? I highly doubt the Cards can afford to pony up that much cash for even someone as great as Pujols has been.

swaisuc
12-06-2010, 01:10 PM
Berkman is only a shell of what he was, but its still probably an upgrade for them at a position they needed help at. Personally, I'm not as high on his bounce-back potential as others because his value is largely OBP at this point and I really think he's going to see way fewer balls with his current hitting ability and his probable place in that order.

To the earlier discussion, Matt Holliday is twice the outfielder Berkman was even a few years ago. I'm not sure that it matters a whole lot in STL, but normally I would say you've got to move Holliday to right.

MikeThierry
12-06-2010, 02:26 PM
I guess I'm not crapping myself on Berkman's potential defense liabilities. The Cardinals induce the most groundballs in the majors to begin with so I don't think his lack of defense is going to hurt the Cards as much as people think. Also, I remember the Cardinals playing Chris Duncan on a daily basis when they won the World Series in 06. Chris Duncan is the worst defensive left fielder I have ever seen and might be the worst defensive left fielder the Cardinals have had in their history.

I just think his offensive potential is greater than any defensive liability that he presents in the outfield, esp. if he is hitting in front of Pujols. It is also interesting to note that in an interview given to the St. Louis Post Dispatch, he has lost 13 pounds in the offseason so far. It looks like he is making a concerted effort to get in shape to play left field.

bounty37h
12-06-2010, 04:38 PM
"This guy heres dead.
Well, cross him off then".

Hondo
12-06-2010, 04:45 PM
"This guy heres dead.
Well, cross him off then".

Major League

Gotta Love that movie!

But for real, the Reds if they do nothing with Left Field will probably get equal production for 1.75 Million as the Cards get for 8 Million

Gomes vs. Berkman

bounty37h
12-06-2010, 04:50 PM
Yeah, a few years ago this move would have scared me. Now it just reminds me I havent had any fiber yet today.