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Brisco
12-08-2010, 03:02 PM
Jocketty on #reds: "We've had zero conversations with agents or clubs today."

This quote started a bit of a firestorm on ORD and a fair number of complaints. Some complained based on its possible truth... some complained on the fact that it was publicly announced and thereby disheartening the fan base.

I think quotes like this, stating a lack of action, are all too rare. This is a necessary Agent Control measure.

In other words, if GMs insinuate that they are working on multiple deals, it is the Agents that use this public data to drive up the price of clients. After the TX news report that the Reds might be talking to Cliff Lee, and so on, I thought it was wise for Jocketty to let other GM's know that they might be bidding against themselves... ESPECIALLY after the Jayson Werth deal.

Deals that vastly overpay hurt the entire league and therefor the fans as well. I wonder how many small market teams have upped the offer just on the rumor that some other team is gonna pay bigger bucks? If the Reds are not bidding on Lee and/or other players, it is better for baseball that they let everyone know that.

Secrecy on trades makes sense, but I never understood the secrecy on free agent signings. Its not like the agent is going to cut off the bidding before he gives ever team out there the chance to beat the best current offer.

That said, i guess you could say that you are helping your team by pulling resources from another... but i really think that is short sighted and leads to the unending salary inflation that is causing the realm of haves and have nots in baseball.

Vottomatic
12-08-2010, 04:38 PM
I was hoping Jocketty would say "We're in intense conversation with Seattle about obtaining Felix Hernandez, and also with KC about obtaining Greinke. But we're also hoping to sign Cliff Lee and overspend like the Nationals did to acquire him. Reds fans are going to be happy with the team we put together next season after all these wild and crazy trades we're going to make. We're also in on Jacob Ellsbury and Choo from Cleveland. Things are looking up!!!!"

scott91575
12-08-2010, 05:00 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/print.jsp?ymd=20101207&content_id=16273334&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

Whole article in case anyone is wondering. Pretty much states no one that is available is to their liking, the ones they do like teams want too much, and the Reds don't have much room in the budget.

Hondo
12-08-2010, 06:04 PM
http://mlb.mlb.com/news/print.jsp?ymd=20101207&content_id=16273334&vkey=news_mlb&c_id=mlb

Whole article in case anyone is wondering. Pretty much states no one that is available is to their liking, the ones they do like teams want too much, and the Reds don't have much room in the budget.

The worst part of that article is Janish being considered the Everyday ShortStop...

Good Glove man but Dusty will keep trying to put him in the 2 hole.

brm7675
12-08-2010, 06:06 PM
I am amazed at how worked up people get about nothing. If the Reds make a move, then great, if they don't it's NO BIG DEAL. I would rather the Reds make ZERO moves over making bad moves. The Nationals just made a move...would you call it a good move? The Yankees just made a move....again would you call it a good move? The only move so far this offseason that I would lable as good is the move the Red Sox made, outside of that nothing has impressed me.

fewfirstchoice
12-08-2010, 06:17 PM
This team will not make it back to the playoffs with Janish starting at SS and Gomes starting in LF. I know some here wont agree but its the truth. Walt needs to make upgrades at these postions. Id say go get Bartlett from the Rays to start at SS and sign him to a 3 yr 12-15 mil. deal. Then go get a starting LF to plug in the 4 hole behind Votto. Wh not certain yet but Walt needs to find somebody. Maybe talk to the Nats about Josh W(forgot how to spell his last name) he would look nice in LF. Make it happen Walt go do your job and quit signing the Cairos of the worl to 2 yr deals. What a joke.

Hondo
12-08-2010, 06:24 PM
This team will not make it back to the playoffs with Janish starting at SS and Gomes starting in LF. I know some here wont agree but its the truth. Walt needs to make upgrades at these postions. Id say go get Bartlett from the Rays to start at SS and sign him to a 3 yr 12-15 mil. deal. Then go get a starting LF to plug in the 4 hole behind Votto. Wh not certain yet but Walt needs to find somebody. Maybe talk to the Nats about Josh W(forgot how to spell his last name) he would look nice in LF. Make it happen Walt go do your job and quit signing the Cairos of the worl to 2 yr deals. What a joke.

I think Willingham would be a bad move... I agree with everything else you're saying but I believe that is just talk for the Media from Walt, because possibly he has some moves going on that he wants to remain private...

New York Red
12-08-2010, 06:26 PM
This team will not make it back to the playoffs with Janish starting at SS and Gomes starting in LF. I know some here wont agree but its the truth. Walt needs to make upgrades at these postions. Id say go get Bartlett from the Rays to start at SS and sign him to a 3 yr 12-15 mil. deal. Then go get a starting LF to plug in the 4 hole behind Votto. Wh not certain yet but Walt needs to find somebody. Maybe talk to the Nats about Josh W(forgot how to spell his last name) he would look nice in LF. Make it happen Walt go do your job and quit signing the Cairos of the worl to 2 yr deals. What a joke.
I'm hoping for an upgrade at SS and LF, but I'm also expecting all the young, talented players who played a role in our playoff run to be even better next year. With our roster the way it is now, we would possibly be the favorite to repeat as NL Central champs. But of course, I'd still love to add a couple more pieces.

Quatitos
12-08-2010, 07:13 PM
I take that quote along with a couple of the other quotes from that day to piece together what actually happened. They basically spent the whole day accessing the organization as is so that they can make good moves. Just because they spent the whole day doing this is not a bad thing, in fact I am encouraged that they are paying a lot of attention to what moves they can make and are not just making moves without looking at the whole picture.

I agree that some people have overreacted to this single quote without looking at some of the other stories from that day which said they were basically focusing on evaluating what they have now. And since no big deals were made that included possible players the Reds could target on that day, it shows that we didn't miss out much with Walt taking his approach.

brm7675
12-08-2010, 08:18 PM
This team will not make it back to the playoffs with Janish starting at SS and Gomes starting in LF. I know some here wont agree but its the truth. Walt needs to make upgrades at these postions. Id say go get Bartlett from the Rays to start at SS and sign him to a 3 yr 12-15 mil. deal. Then go get a starting LF to plug in the 4 hole behind Votto. Wh not certain yet but Walt needs to find somebody. Maybe talk to the Nats about Josh W(forgot how to spell his last name) he would look nice in LF. Make it happen Walt go do your job and quit signing the Cairos of the worl to 2 yr deals. What a joke.

Well since you can see that far into the future, can you please tell me the lotto numbers for this weekend?:cool:

brm7675
12-08-2010, 08:19 PM
This team will not make it back to the playoffs with Janish starting at SS and Gomes starting in LF. I know some here wont agree but its the truth. Walt needs to make upgrades at these postions. Id say go get Bartlett from the Rays to start at SS and sign him to a 3 yr 12-15 mil. deal. Then go get a starting LF to plug in the 4 hole behind Votto. Wh not certain yet but Walt needs to find somebody. Maybe talk to the Nats about Josh W(forgot how to spell his last name) he would look nice in LF. Make it happen Walt go do your job and quit signing the Cairos of the worl to 2 yr deals. What a joke.

The Reds have no money to spend 12-15 million on a outside player.

brm7675
12-08-2010, 08:20 PM
This team will not make it back to the playoffs with Janish starting at SS and Gomes starting in LF. I know some here wont agree but its the truth. Walt needs to make upgrades at these postions. Id say go get Bartlett from the Rays to start at SS and sign him to a 3 yr 12-15 mil. deal. Then go get a starting LF to plug in the 4 hole behind Votto. Wh not certain yet but Walt needs to find somebody. Maybe talk to the Nats about Josh W(forgot how to spell his last name) he would look nice in LF. Make it happen Walt go do your job and quit signing the Cairos of the worl to 2 yr deals. What a joke.

What do you have against Janish? The man is a GG SS and while not a .300 hitter, if put in the 8th spot can do just fine. I mean look at the SS the Yankees just signed, no range, no bat and they paid him 15+ million a year...

Caveman Techie
12-08-2010, 10:52 PM
This team will not make it back to the playoffs with Janish starting at SS and Gomes starting in LF. I know some here wont agree but its the truth. Walt needs to make upgrades at these postions. Id say go get Bartlett from the Rays to start at SS and sign him to a 3 yr 12-15 mil. deal. Then go get a starting LF to plug in the 4 hole behind Votto. Wh not certain yet but Walt needs to find somebody. Maybe talk to the Nats about Josh W(forgot how to spell his last name) he would look nice in LF. Make it happen Walt go do your job and quit signing the Cairos of the worl to 2 yr deals. What a joke.

But yet somehow the 2010 Reds made it to the playoffs with a starting SS that had a lower: OBP, SLG, OPS, less range in the field, and a lower fielding percentage.

Janish while not a world beater when it comes to offense was better than Cabrera was. I would love for the Reds to get someone better than both Cabrera or Janish for starting SS, but if not the Reds are in a better place at SS than they were last year.

DocRed
12-08-2010, 11:00 PM
Janish will be fine...now Gomes is another story IMO.

Kingspoint
12-08-2010, 11:20 PM
Nice post, Brisco.

Kingspoint
12-08-2010, 11:23 PM
I was hoping Jocketty would say "We're in intense conversation with Seattle about obtaining Felix Hernandez, and also with KC about obtaining Greinke. But we're also hoping to sign Cliff Lee and overspend like the Nationals did to acquire him. Reds fans are going to be happy with the team we put together next season after all these wild and crazy trades we're going to make. We're also in on Jacob Ellsbury and Choo from Cleveland. Things are looking up!!!!"

Never hurts to dream. It's not like it's a Bengals off-season we're talking about or Marvin-speak we're listening to.

Old NDN
12-08-2010, 11:57 PM
Ah, I think everyone's just hyped up and looking forward to the upcoming season. As for Marvin: who in the **ll can understand his "talking down to the press" jibberish?

Old NDN
12-08-2010, 11:58 PM
Ah, I think everyone's just hyped up and looking forward to the upcoming season. As for Marvin: who in the **ll can understand his "talking down to the press" jibberish?

bounty37h
12-09-2010, 01:31 PM
Jocketty on #reds: "We've had zero conversations with agents or clubs today."

This quote started a bit of a firestorm on ORD and a fair number of complaints. Some complained based on its possible truth... some complained on the fact that it was publicly announced and thereby disheartening the fan base.

I think quotes like this, stating a lack of action, are all too rare. This is a necessary Agent Control measure.

In other words, if GMs insinuate that they are working on multiple deals, it is the Agents that use this public data to drive up the price of clients. After the TX news report that the Reds might be talking to Cliff Lee, and so on, I thought it was wise for Jocketty to let other GM's know that they might be bidding against themselves... ESPECIALLY after the Jayson Werth deal.

Deals that vastly overpay hurt the entire league and therefor the fans as well. I wonder how many small market teams have upped the offer just on the rumor that some other team is gonna pay bigger bucks? If the Reds are not bidding on Lee and/or other players, it is better for baseball that they let everyone know that.

Secrecy on trades makes sense, but I never understood the secrecy on free agent signings. Its not like the agent is going to cut off the bidding before he gives ever team out there the chance to beat the best current offer.

That said, i guess you could say that you are helping your team by pulling resources from another... but i really think that is short sighted and leads to the unending salary inflation that is causing the realm of haves and have nots in baseball.

I'm not bothered by the lack of moves-if your going to make one, make it a good one and just haven't seen those anywhere yet. However, I dont like where he plans to stand pat with what we have, but is quoted saying the Cards, Cubs, Brewers have made themselves a better team.

tobttr
12-10-2010, 05:27 PM
First of all, I am in agreement with pretty much everybody one this forum in that "irresponsible" is just about the last word I would use to describe Mr. Jocketty.
Also, making a move, free agent or otherwise, just for the sake of making a move is not a great idea.
But we all remember 1990, I'd bet. Reds go 91-71 & sweep the World Series. That off-season, they were very quiet and in 1991, they went 74-88, so I think there's evidence that standing pat is a little dangerous as well.
Honestly, though, I've been impressed with what the Reds front office has done recently. So unless they unload Votto for some magic beans or something, I'll choose to trust their judgment. I'd really like to see something done about LF, SS and the closer, but if nothing gets done, I'm sure there's sound reasoning involved.

Hondo
12-10-2010, 06:44 PM
First of all, I am in agreement with pretty much everybody one this forum in that "irresponsible" is just about the last word I would use to describe Mr. Jocketty.
Also, making a move, free agent or otherwise, just for the sake of making a move is not a great idea.
But we all remember 1990, I'd bet. Reds go 91-71 & sweep the World Series. That off-season, they were very quiet and in 1991, they went 74-88, so I think there's evidence that standing pat is a little dangerous as well.
Honestly, though, I've been impressed with what the Reds front office has done recently. So unless they unload Votto for some magic beans or something, I'll choose to trust their judgment. I'd really like to see something done about LF, SS and the closer, but if nothing gets done, I'm sure there's sound reasoning involved.

I still don't see why not 1 Need has been addressed.

That being said. At least one position should have been improved...

Closer being the last one because while Shaky, Codero can Close...

I would have liked to seen an upgrade at SS, and not with a JJ Hardy or a Jason Barlett... Like a Reyes from New York....

So thats what I have to say... 1 Improved weakness would have been Nice.

redsfan_12
12-11-2010, 03:06 AM
I still don't see why not 1 Need has been addressed.

That being said. At least one position should have been improved...

Closer being the last one because while Shaky, Codero can Close...

I would have liked to seen an upgrade at SS, and not with a JJ Hardy or a Jason Barlett... Like a Reyes from New York....

So thats what I have to say... 1 Improved weakness would have been Nice.

agreed. I'd like to start in LF

mattfeet
12-11-2010, 01:34 PM
LF for me, too.

-Matt