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View Full Version : Reds Intersted In Bartlett



RedLegSuperStar
12-08-2010, 06:25 PM
Steve Phillips: Source says the Reds are in on Jason Bartlett, but that money is an issue

RedsManRick
12-08-2010, 06:28 PM
Just saw that. I really don't understand it. Offensively they're very similar (in terms of what one should expect in 2011) and by most accounts, Bartlett's defense has taken a step back. I guess it would be a good depth move, but if the idea is that he'd be a solution for our leadoff hitter and would take the job from Janish, I'd be disappointed.

pedro
12-08-2010, 06:34 PM
Just saw that. I really don't understand it. Offensively they're very similar (in terms of what one should expect in 2011) and by most accounts, Bartlett's defense has taken a step back. I guess it would be a good depth move, but if the idea is that he'd be a solution for our leadoff hitter and would take the job from Janish, I'd be disappointed.

Bartlett is clearly better offensively than Janish IMO and would likely benefit from coming to the weaker league.

I still have a hard time believing Janish could OPS much over .600 if given 500 AB's. All you have to do is look at his monthly splits to see that.

Griffey012
12-08-2010, 06:45 PM
Ehh, just say no. Unless we get the Rays to pick up a bunch of salary.

pahster
12-08-2010, 06:51 PM
Bartlett is clearly better offensively than Janish IMO and would likely benefit from coming to the weaker league.

I still have a hard time believing Janish could OPS much over .600 if given 500 AB's. All you have to do is look at his monthly splits to see that.

From last year? He only had two months under .600 and I don't think that really means anything. He only had 19 and 15 PA in those months. He seemed to hit pretty well in the months that he was playing a lot. That said, I don't really think monthly splits mean much anyway.

I'm not all that high on Janish's bat, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to OPS over .600 over a full season given what he did last year, which was OPS over .700. I suspect the difference between his bat and Bartlett's isn't all that great. The difference between their gloves is probably sizable, though, as Bartlett has seemingly slowed down quite a bit over the last few years.

Bartlett doesn't appear to be a bad acquisition, just a bit of a puzzling one because he's probably not a clear upgrade over Janish and Cozart. If the FO isn't sold on Janish as an everday SS for half a season, I suppose Bartlett would make sense as a half season bridge to Cozart. Maybe.

MattyHo4Life
12-08-2010, 06:51 PM
Ehh, just say no. Unless we get the Rays to pick up a bunch of salary.

I still think the Reds should trade for Brendan Ryan. He is on the outs with LaRussa, and it seems like they are desperate to trade him. LaRussa said today that they won't release him... I was actually starting to wonder if they would. I'm afraid they will trade him for nothing though. They don't want him in the clubhouse anymore... I think that's all it comes down to.

RedLegSuperStar
12-08-2010, 06:52 PM
I still think the Reds should trade for Brendan Ryan. He is on the outs with LaRussa, and it seems like they are desperate to trade him. LaRussa said today that they won't release him... I was actually starting to wonder if they would. I'm afraid they will trade him for nothing though.

Him and Rasmus for a bag of balls.

MattyHo4Life
12-08-2010, 06:54 PM
Him and Rasmus for a bag of balls.

Not even LaRussa can get Rasmus out of town.

Griffey012
12-08-2010, 06:55 PM
From last year? He only had two months under .600 and I don't think that really means anything. He only had 19 and 15 PA in those months. He seemed to hit pretty well in the months that he was playing a lot. That said, I don't really think monthly splits mean much anyway.

I'm not all that high on Janish's bat, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to OPS over .600 over a full season given what he did last year, which was OPS over .700. I suspect the difference between his bat and Bartlett's isn't all that great. The difference between their gloves is probably sizable, though, as Bartlett has seemingly slowed down quite a bit over the last few years.

Bartlett doesn't appear to be a bad acquisition, just a bit of a puzzling one because he's probably not a clear upgrade over Janish and Cozart. If the FO isn't sold on Janish as an everday SS for half a season, I suppose Bartlett would make sense as a half season bridge to Cozart. Maybe.

I agree with your assessment there. I was very anti-Janish coming into this season, especially offensively. But he showed me a lot last year in that he can handle his own offensively against mediocre pitching. He is still going to get owned by great pitching, but I can live with that. Bartlett will probably get owned by good pitching as well.

Degenerate39
12-08-2010, 06:59 PM
I still think the Reds should trade for Brendan Ryan. He is on the outs with LaRussa, and it seems like they are desperate to trade him. LaRussa said today that they won't release him... I was actually starting to wonder if they would. I'm afraid they will trade him for nothing though. They don't want him in the clubhouse anymore... I think that's all it comes down to.

I'd rather have Dave Concepcion at the age of 62 playing shortstop for the Reds every day than Brendan Ryan. Okay I'm only half serious :thumbup:

JaxRed
12-08-2010, 07:04 PM
Janish is a better hitter, a better defender, and is cheap. Hopefully this doesn't come to fruition.

RedLegSuperStar
12-08-2010, 07:13 PM
Not even LaRussa can get Rasmus out of town.

Alright.. Throw in a autograph CD from Bronson Arroyo then.

pedro
12-08-2010, 07:14 PM
From last year? He only had two months under .600 and I don't think that really means anything. He only had 19 and 15 PA in those months. He seemed to hit pretty well in the months that he was playing a lot. That said, I don't really think monthly splits mean much anyway.

I'm not all that high on Janish's bat, but I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to OPS over .600 over a full season given what he did last year, which was OPS over .700. I suspect the difference between his bat and Bartlett's isn't all that great. The difference between their gloves is probably sizable, though, as Bartlett has seemingly slowed down quite a bit over the last few years.

Bartlett doesn't appear to be a bad acquisition, just a bit of a puzzling one because he's probably not a clear upgrade over Janish and Cozart. If the FO isn't sold on Janish as an everday SS for half a season, I suppose Bartlett would make sense as a half season bridge to Cozart. Maybe.

I'm talking more 2009-2010.

Basically he was pretty good in July and August of last year, other than that not so much. I'm just not buying it yet. I think bringing in Bartlett and letting the best man win in spring training seems like a good plan.

MattyHo4Life
12-08-2010, 07:17 PM
I'd rather have Dave Concepcion at the age of 62 playing shortstop for the Reds every day than Brendan Ryan. Okay I'm only half serious :thumbup:

Why? He probably has the same opinion of Chris Carpenter and Tony LaRussa as most members of Redzone do. lol

Besides, Dusty seems like the kind of manager that Ryan would play well for.

GoReds
12-08-2010, 07:30 PM
Bartlett to the Padres.

RedsManRick
12-08-2010, 07:30 PM
Bartlett is clearly better offensively than Janish IMO and would likely benefit from coming to the weaker league.

I still have a hard time believing Janish could OPS much over .600 if given 500 AB's. All you have to do is look at his monthly splits to see that.

Clearly? Janish hit .260/.338/ .385. Bartlett hit .254/.324/.350. Bartlett has had one good season which was completely out of line with the rest of his career and which was buoyed by a .364 BABIP. Janish has just 1 full season worth of plate appearances, but for the first time last year had a decent BABIP and put a decent linle.

As for Janish's ability to hit over the course of a full season, monthly splits are meaningless. You can always find a pattern but it simply isn't predictive. Furthermore, he only had 3 months worth of PA, so we can't really say what a full season looks like.

They are very similar offensive players. GB/FB ratio and BABIP are the only two things that are significantly different between the two. The ratio explains some of the BABIP different, but not even close to all of it. If Janish has a BABIP north of .270 he'll have an OPS north of .700 and I fight it hard to believe his true talent BABIP is less than .270, let alone the craptastic .245 you suggest it is.

MattyHo4Life
12-08-2010, 07:32 PM
The only thing that separates them are playing time and luck.

...and lots and lots of money

RedsManRick
12-08-2010, 07:34 PM
...and lots and lots of money

Guys like these are like 6th men in basketball who can score but not do much else. If they find their way on to a team where they can get playing time, they'll have at least one good stretch which basically justifies their existence in the league for years to come and as an occasional starter. If they don't, they may find themselves out of the league sooner rather than later.

redsfandan
12-08-2010, 07:36 PM
Bartlett to the Padres.
Yep, he's gone. Apparently the Padres gave up relievers Cesar Ramos and Adam Russell to the Rays in return.

MattyHo4Life
12-08-2010, 07:39 PM
Yep, he's gone. Apparently the Padres gave up relievers Cesar Ramos and Adam Russell to the Rays in return.

I really don't think it's a loss for either of our teams. The Cards dropped out of the Bartlett race when they signed Berkman. I'd much rather have Berkman than Bartlett.

redsfandan
12-08-2010, 07:46 PM
I really don't think it's a loss for either of our teams. The Cards dropped out of the Bartlett race when they signed Berkman. I'd much rather have Berkman than Bartlett.
And I'd rather have Janish/Cozart than Bartlett. So, yeah this works for me too.

RedLegSuperStar
12-08-2010, 08:49 PM
I hear Felipe Lopez, Royce Clayton, Jerry Hairston Jr., and Orlando Cabrera are available.

Redhook
12-08-2010, 08:59 PM
I hear Felipe Lopez, Royce Clayton, Jerry Hairston Jr., and Orlando Cabrera are available.

:barf:

Tom Servo
12-08-2010, 09:06 PM
I hear Felipe Lopez, Royce Clayton, Jerry Hairston Jr., and Orlando Cabrera are available.
But what about Tony Womack?

pedro
12-08-2010, 09:09 PM
Clearly? Janish hit .260/.338/ .385. Bartlett hit .254/.324/.350. Bartlett has had one good season which was completely out of line with the rest of his career and which was buoyed by a .364 BABIP. Janish has just 1 full season worth of plate appearances, but for the first time last year had a decent BABIP and put a decent linle.

As for Janish's ability to hit over the course of a full season, monthly splits are meaningless. You can always find a pattern but it simply isn't predictive. Furthermore, he only had 3 months worth of PA, so we can't really say what a full season looks like.

They are very similar offensive players. GB/FB ratio and BABIP are the only two things that are significantly different between the two. The ratio explains some of the BABIP different, but not even close to all of it. If Janish has a BABIP north of .270 he'll have an OPS north of .700 and I fight it hard to believe his true talent BABIP is less than .270, let alone the craptastic .245 you suggest it is.

Monthly splits mean something when only 3 out of 12 are even moderately decent.

I'll believe Janish can OPS over .650 for an entire season when he does it. Until then I won't be surprised that the Reds are hesitant to give him the chance to prove his doubters wrong.

It's not like his minor league numbers indicate I'm wrong.

Oxilon
12-08-2010, 09:40 PM
Apparently Steve Phillips is just as bad at reporting as he is being a faithful husband.

corkedbat
12-08-2010, 11:54 PM
Apparently Steve Phillips is just as bad at reporting as he is being a faithful husband.

His taste in trollops ain't that great either. :p:

corkedbat
12-08-2010, 11:56 PM
Not sorry we missed out on Bartlett - I'd just as soon go with Janish/Cozart. Brigniac would have been nice because of his lefty bat.

OnBaseMachine
12-08-2010, 11:58 PM
I would much rather have J.J. Hardy. He's a better hitter and defender than Bartlett.

Reds Fanatic
12-09-2010, 01:16 AM
According to ESPN the Bartlett deal may not be finalized at this point.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5900440

thatcoolguy_22
12-09-2010, 04:21 AM
According to ESPN the Bartlett deal may not be finalized at this point.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5900440

For the sake of the Reds pitching staff, Janish, and my eyes for reading a year's worth of "Why did WJ trade for/why isn't PJ starting/his glove has fallen off a cliff" -- I hope this trade gets finalized.

EDIT: I want nothing to do with Bartlett. I wouldn't trade Cairo for him straight up.

Ron Madden
12-09-2010, 04:26 AM
Bartlett to the Padres.

God I hope so.

Mario-Rijo
12-09-2010, 05:41 AM
I am all for getting Bartlett as everyone knows and although I fully admit he isn't a world beater (isn't ideal) he does have some strengths that I believe we need and the fact he is/was available made him the best option short of snagging someone not being shopped. I'll unfortunately have to watch him get tossed on to the majority's "junk pile" with Carlos Quentin, Nelson Cruz, Juan Rivera and so on. Every year there is a guy or 2 that can help us, available & is reasonably cheap to acquire and the majority fails to recognize them, get behind the idea and help to sway some public opinion to at least lead the Reds to consider them. When we are getting spanked because our all world offense isn't scoring runs anymore because Votto is the only one consistently getting on based at the top and there is no one to drive the guy in. Sure I believe Jay has turned a corner but everyone else is suspect and the whole division is loading up with LHP's to combat those 2.

Jason Bartlett I think could have helped a bit, not as much as a nice RH #4 hitter but certainly more than Janish will and most likely Cozart for this year as well. Maybe Negron will emerge I don't know. We better hope so because Bob and Walt are again this offseason doing nothing but trying to count on the rest of the division just not being as deep and being able to eek out another division championship. What a way to try to go deeper in the playoffs Reds Brass!

thatcoolguy_22
12-09-2010, 05:45 AM
Jason Bartlett I think could have helped a bit, not as much as a nice RH #4 hitter but certainly more than Janish will and most likely Cozart for this year as well. Maybe Negron will emerge I don't know. We better hope so because Bob and Walt are again this offseason doing nothing but trying to count on the rest of the division just not being as deep and being able to eek out another division championship. What a way to try to go deeper in the playoffs Reds Brass!


My avatar says if Janish gets to start he will have a better season than Bartlett.

Mario-Rijo
12-09-2010, 05:52 AM
My avatar says if Janish gets to start he will have a better season than Bartlett.

I'll take that bet. :thumbup:

thatcoolguy_22
12-09-2010, 07:05 AM
I'll take that bet. :thumbup:

As the orginator of the bet I have final say in all stats the are used to determine the overall value, of course. :D

Say hello to http://www.wildcatworld.com/bounce/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/colin-cowherd1.jpg

:beerme:

dfs
12-09-2010, 11:32 AM
My avatar says if Janish gets to start he will have a better season than Bartlett.

I think that's a reasonable proposition. I didn't care for Janish's skillset when he came through Dayton, but boy did the writers love him. You saw more of that as he moved through the minor league system. The numbers said..."eh" but everybody around the guy was raving about him.

At the major league level whenever a question has been asked about what he could do, he's answered it in his favor. Last hot stove league the question about Janish was if he could hit more than 200 over the course of a season. He had already demonstrated that he would be an asset in the field. Well, he didn't get a full major league season, but over 230 plate appearances he hit 260 with enough walks and power to be considered an asset at the plate as a middle infielder.

It seems to me when a guy keeps excelling at the roles you give him, you should try and carve out a slightly bigger role for him (till he gets expensive).

Bartlett has really only had one year where he clearly outperformed what Janish did last year.

GoReds
12-09-2010, 12:56 PM
Looks like the Bartlett trade is in trouble.

"Jerry Crasnick and Buster Olney of ESPN.com report that the trade “is off, at least for now, because the teams couldn’t finalize the deal.” According to the report the swap “is in limbo, but it’s not dead.”

Mario-Rijo
12-09-2010, 01:35 PM
O's acquire JJ Hardy and Brendan Harris from Minny for P's Jim Hoey and Brett Jacobson per the bottom line on MLB.com.

OnBaseMachine
12-09-2010, 01:42 PM
O's acquire JJ Hardy and Brendan Harris from Minny for P's Jim Hoey and Brett Jacobson per the bottom line on MLB.com.

Heck of a deal for the Orioles.

They acquired a solid shortstop in return for a soon to be 28 year old reliever who hasn't pitched in the majors in three years and a 24 year old RHP who spent the whole season in High-A.

Ron Madden
12-09-2010, 01:51 PM
Heck of a deal for the Orioles.

They acquired a solid shortstop in return for a soon to be 28 year old reliever who hasn't pitched in the majors in three years and a 24 year old RHP who spent the whole season in High-A.

The Orioles have had a very busy off-season, I like the Mark Reynolds move and this trade to get J.J. Hardy.

edabbs44
12-09-2010, 04:07 PM
Heck of a deal for the Orioles.

They acquired a solid shortstop in return for a soon to be 28 year old reliever who hasn't pitched in the majors in three years and a 24 year old RHP who spent the whole season in High-A.

Sounds like JJ is due $7MM or so in arbitration. Is he worth that?

Hoosier Red
12-09-2010, 04:16 PM
Alright.. Throw in a autograph CD from Bronson Arroyo then.

Atta way to play hardball! Threaten them. If they don't give in to our demands, we'll make Bronson sing live!

RedEye
12-09-2010, 05:04 PM
O's acquire JJ Hardy and Brendan Harris from Minny for P's Jim Hoey and Brett Jacobson per the bottom line on MLB.com.

Ahem... is that the Brendan Harris? He now of Nats, Reds, Rays, Twins, O's fame? That is the same guy, isn't it?

Mario-Rijo
12-09-2010, 05:43 PM
Ahem... is that the Brendan Harris? He now of Nats, Reds, Rays, Twins, O's fame? That is the same guy, isn't it?

Yes

MattyHo4Life
12-09-2010, 09:11 PM
Him and Rasmus for a bag of balls.

In all honesty, I think I'd rather Rasmus be traded to the Reds than be ruined by LaRussa. If you go by what Colby's dad says, then LaRussa is trying to turn Colby into Skip Schumaker.

MattyHo4Life
12-11-2010, 12:59 PM
In all honesty, I think I'd rather Rasmus be traded to the Reds than be ruined by LaRussa. If you go by what Colby's dad says, then LaRussa is trying to turn Colby into Skip Schumaker.

Nevermind this comment. Apparently, Colby's dad is making up more stories to get him traded.

http://hardballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/12/10/no-the-cardinals-arent-trying-to-change-colby-rasmus-but-his-father-is-taking-shots-at-the-organization/