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View Full Version : Reds extend Jay Bruce (6 yrs / $51M w/ club-option 7th @$12M)



mbgrayson
12-10-2010, 12:43 AM
Per MlbTradeRumors (http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/reds-extend-jay-bruce.html):
6 years $51 million.

pedro
12-10-2010, 12:44 AM
I like that.

kaldaniels
12-10-2010, 12:44 AM
YESSSSSSSS

:beerme:

kaldaniels
12-10-2010, 12:47 AM
And an option for 12 million for the 7th year.

OnBaseMachine
12-10-2010, 12:47 AM
Yes! I love it. Excellent deal for both sides. Jay Bruce is going to be a great player for a long time and I hope to see him spend his whole career with the Reds. He has stated numerous times he loves playing for the Reds and wants to be here for a long time. Great person, great player. I'm excited to see him locked up long-term.

Now sign Votto.

dougdirt
12-10-2010, 12:52 AM
Thumbs up smiley face

HeatherC1212
12-10-2010, 12:53 AM
Great news!! I hope it's true and that the details get posted by one of the Reds beat guys soon. Yay Jay!! :jump:

Tom Servo
12-10-2010, 12:55 AM
Extend? They locked the Boss up!

Me likey.

RedsManRick
12-10-2010, 12:57 AM
EXCELLENT!

Homer Bailey
12-10-2010, 12:57 AM
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Caveat Emperor
12-10-2010, 12:57 AM
Potential is there for this to be an incredibly good deal for the Reds if the Jay Bruce of August/September is the Jay Bruce we see from this point forward. Even still, it's a great deal for Bruce too since it frees him in time to sign another monster FA contract before he hits the wrong side of 30.

It's nice to know we'll continue to see at least one of the Votto/Bruce combo in a Reds uni for the long-term future.

Ghosts of 1990
12-10-2010, 01:00 AM
Win-win on this deal. Great move.

Happy night in Reds country

HokieRed
12-10-2010, 01:01 AM
Excellent move. Walt's been busy at the right things.

guttle11
12-10-2010, 01:03 AM
So the full deal could be 7 years, $63 million for a 23 year old, GG caliber, good power hitting RFer.

32 year old, aging, average at best defending Werth got double that for the same 7 years.

Walt is good. Real good.

PuffyPig
12-10-2010, 01:05 AM
If Bruce becomes a .900 OPS guy, he would get $20M per season easily as a FA. Crawford got more and he's not a .900 OPS guy and a LF, as opposed to a GG fielding RF.

So, counting the option year, we got Bruce for $63M for 7 years. Considering his 3 FA years could easily be worth $60M if he develops as stated, I like this contract.

Superdude
12-10-2010, 01:08 AM
Bruuuuuuce!

MrCinatit
12-10-2010, 01:12 AM
Very good move. Hopefully up next: Votto.

WVPacman
12-10-2010, 01:19 AM
I like this alot b/c I want to see all of our young stars stay here.When was his old contract up?

Red Leader
12-10-2010, 01:24 AM
I like this alot b/c I want to see all of our young stars stay here.When was his old contract up?

He's arbitration eligible this year, so the Reds would have had to go year to year for the next three years. He still would have been under their control for the next threee years, but his price tag would have likely gone up each year. Who knows what he would have been paid in that 3rd arbitration year having seen some of the contracts signed this offseason.

This was, IMO, the best time to lock Bruce up long term. You buy out his three arbitration years and 3-4 years of free agency. For $51M, that's an absolute steal for the Reds.

paintmered
12-10-2010, 01:28 AM
7 years from now, that $12M option will look like a bargain. I really like this deal. :thumbup:

WVPacman
12-10-2010, 01:29 AM
He's arbitration eligible this year, so the Reds would have had to go year to year for the next three years. He still would have been under their control for the next threee years, but his price tag would have likely gone up each year. Who knows what he would have been paid in that 3rd arbitration year having seen some of the contracts signed this offseason.

This was, IMO, the best time to lock Bruce up long term. You buy out his three arbitration years and 3-4 years of free agency. For $51M, that's an absolute steal for the Reds.

You think the reds front office has the same plans for Votto? Im telling ya if we wait very much longer we won't be able to keep him.

WMR
12-10-2010, 01:34 AM
Pretty damn good!! Love it.

Brutus
12-10-2010, 01:36 AM
Tremendous deal for both sides. Love it.

savafan
12-10-2010, 01:36 AM
How is John Allen going to explain this to Carl Lindner?

PuffyPig
12-10-2010, 01:52 AM
He's arbitration eligible this year, so the Reds would have had to go year to year for the next three years.

Bruce is eligible for arbitration for 4 years.

HeatherC1212
12-10-2010, 01:55 AM
How is John Allen going to explain this to Carl Lindner?

How will Chris Carpenter explain this to his son? ;)

OnBaseMachine
12-10-2010, 02:02 AM
Bruce gets a partial no trade clause too according to Jon Heyman.

jay bruce gets $51-million contract extension from #reds, with 13-mil option for 2017. partial no trade. confirms story of @jcrasnick

http://twitter.com/SI_JonHeyman

mdccclxix
12-10-2010, 02:07 AM
I don't like the deal. I wanted 12 years. :D

Seriously though, perhaps he'll sign an extension in 2014 or so.

HeatherC1212
12-10-2010, 02:23 AM
In light of this news, I had to go rewatch the clinching HR from September 28th, 2010 and I'm still tickled pink that I was actually there in person to watch the Reds clinch that title! :D Jay's HR just floated like it was lost in time and when it landed about twenty feet away from me in CF....wow, I will never forget the total pandemonium that happened in the ballpark at that moment. It was like a decade of frustration and an even longer playoff drought got blown away in the fireworks. Absolutely awesome. That is one of my all time fave Reds memories and I am so excited that Jay is going to be around for hopefully many more! :thumbup:

Now, let's get Joey signed too so we have both our J boys here for a good long time! :D

mth123
12-10-2010, 02:27 AM
Fantastic. Walt's best move by far as a Red's GM.

OnBaseMachine
12-10-2010, 02:30 AM
Fantastic. Walt's best move by far as a Red's GM.

I put it right there with the signing of Chapman.

corkedbat
12-10-2010, 02:39 AM
Great news! This offseason is already a success! Now get us a LFer!

WMR
12-10-2010, 02:45 AM
I can't tell you how much more optimistic this move makes me concerning the Reds.

This shows an organization that is doing more things than not the right way.

Just add us a LF bat and let's go.

thatcoolguy_22
12-10-2010, 03:03 AM
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



YouTube - Famous Carlton Dance (a compilation) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKlxjbhB9HE)

919191
12-10-2010, 03:24 AM
This has to be the most positive thread I've ever seen here.

Ron Madden
12-10-2010, 03:33 AM
I'm very happy right now.

:dancingco :jump::dancingco

Ron Madden
12-10-2010, 03:35 AM
In light of this news, I had to go rewatch the clinching HR from September 28th, 2010 and I'm still tickled pink that I was actually there in person to watch the Reds clinch that title! :D Jay's HR just floated like it was lost in time and when it landed about twenty feet away from me in CF....wow, I will never forget the total pandemonium that happened in the ballpark at that moment. It was like a decade of frustration and an even longer playoff drought got blown away in the fireworks. Absolutely awesome. That is one of my all time fave Reds memories and I am so excited that Jay is going to be around for hopefully many more! :thumbup:

Now, let's get Joey signed too so we have both our J boys here for a good long time! :D

I love this post. :thumbup:

Razor Shines
12-10-2010, 03:44 AM
Awesome! Something that we really wished would happen actually happened.

I bet Jay is a happy guy. 23 year old baseball player and a $51M contract that has a very good chance of being $63M, pretty cool.

Griffey012
12-10-2010, 03:52 AM
YouTube - Jay Bruce Clinches NL Central (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_w3p93ovuY)

All I can say is...future MVP. Step aside Votto, you are going to have company.

corkedbat
12-10-2010, 03:54 AM
If they can get Joey inked to a similar deal before ST begins, the core would be set nicely for a solid run. I'm just afraid that JV's asking price will be double (or higher) for the same number of years.

Wheelhouse
12-10-2010, 03:55 AM
Muy bueno. Votto must be looking at this and imagining the comfort that Jay Bruce is feeling now. Bruce has taken care of his family for several generations at least. Votto also must see the Reds are serious about keeping the team together. Votto also sees Arroyo deferring pay to allow the team some flex this year. He's got to be closer to considering a LTC than he was yesterday.

corkedbat
12-10-2010, 03:58 AM
YouTube - Jay Bruce Clinches NL Central (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_w3p93ovuY)

All I can say is...future MVP. Step aside Votto, you are going to have company.

What a great night. I had to work that evening, but I got home in time to see that live. I still get goose bumps. Can't wait to get to GAB this year either!

KronoRed
12-10-2010, 05:05 AM
Neat.

Get Votto signed or it's meaningless.

Mario-Rijo
12-10-2010, 05:33 AM
Finally something to feel good about. Good job Walt and company! :thumbup:

redsfandan
12-10-2010, 05:38 AM
Just got home. Heard the news on WLW at midnight while I was working. Made my night. Easily the best move, so far, this off season. Nice job Walt.

RedLegSuperStar
12-10-2010, 06:22 AM
Great news to wake up to on a Friday

Superdude
12-10-2010, 06:22 AM
Easily the best move, so far, this off season.

You know we signed Cairo right?

redsmetz
12-10-2010, 07:08 AM
Great news to wake up to on a Friday

Same here. I told my wife we've signed him until he's 30 and she said she thought he was older than that man. Only concern, and we'll cross that bridge when we get there, what will it cost to keep him. I can't even imagine what those salaries will be. Still, very good news. Hopefully we can get Joey done too.

membengal
12-10-2010, 07:17 AM
That'll work. I wonder how it's structured. If less money this year but grows as the contract deepens, it may have given them some more room in this year's budget by avoiding the uncertainty of arbitration.

Fantastic in all respects.

Will M
12-10-2010, 07:29 AM
The Reds have a tight budget. They were/are also facing unknowns in the arbitration salaries for Bruce, Votto, Cueto & Volquez. If Walt can figure out what he has to pay the last 3 guys for 2011 then he might have some money left to get a shortstop (he doesn't seem happy with Janish/Cozart) and/or left fielder.

Eric_the_Red
12-10-2010, 07:32 AM
Wow, this is a GREAT way to start my morning! I think this is a fabulous deal for the Reds. If Bruce becomes the player we all think he will be, the 7th year will be a lock to be picked up. (Actually if he becomes that player, he may be extended well before that 7th season.)

Woohoo!!

RedsBaron
12-10-2010, 07:36 AM
YouTube - Jay Bruce Clinches NL Central (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_w3p93ovuY)

All I can say is...future MVP. Step aside Votto, you are going to have company.

Terrific news! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:
And I LOVE re-watching Bruce's HR!

hebroncougar
12-10-2010, 08:02 AM
Great deal, for both sides. I wish Votto would sign a similar deal in terms of years, but it's not going to happen.

Reds Fanatic
12-10-2010, 08:05 AM
That is a great deal. Good to see Jay will be around for a long time.

RedFanAlways1966
12-10-2010, 08:17 AM
I like it. :beerme:

Dan
12-10-2010, 08:24 AM
My first thought...Bruce should fire his agent. This is a GREAT deal for the Reds. Bruce still gets good money, but really he should be getting $15/yr the last few years of the deal. I wonder how he's going to feel in 4 years when he's outperforming what he's being paid.

lollipopcurve
12-10-2010, 08:25 AM
Tremendous news. The fact they got it done without any back and forth in the media is especially nice. Bruce is now the face of the franchise (and Votto probably prefers it that way).

HokieRed
12-10-2010, 08:35 AM
The fact they got it done without any back and forth in the media is especially nice.

One of the good results of Walt's care to keep talk limited.

RFS62
12-10-2010, 08:53 AM
Wow. Christmas comes early!!!

Fantastic job, Walt.

:beerme:

Roy Tucker
12-10-2010, 09:01 AM
The Reds are hitching their wagon to Bruce's star.

I'm fairly certain it will turn out, but I always get nervous at any long-term contract the Reds sign. Excellent signing *if* Bruce pans out as expected (its not a certainty). This is why GMs get paid the big bucks to make decisions like this.

I'll feel better if they sing Votto. They need them both.

BCubb2003
12-10-2010, 09:10 AM
Excellent signing *if* Bruce pans out as expected (its not a certainty).

Good point, but that's why you're able to lock up a player. If you wait until he's an MVP, it's too late.

muddie
12-10-2010, 09:15 AM
I'm very pleased with this. There have been some very good points regarding this contract through the thread that I won't repeat.

I will say, I want the Reds to build as much as possible from the inside. Walt may go out and get another piece to the puzzle, but I would like to see Heisey get a chance to swim or sink in Cincy before he goes out in a trade. I have been consistent in believing this organization has the pieces right now to get back to the playoffs if certain things click. I don't want this organization to go out and tie a big percentage of the budget up in one player.

Congrats Jay!

Roy Tucker
12-10-2010, 09:18 AM
Good point, but that's why you're able to lock up a player. If you wait until he's an MVP, it's too late.

Yep. If you wait till the tipping point, its too late. That's where a GM has to use all of his analytical powers to predict what a guy is going to be like and pull the trigger right when the momentum shift occurs. This is a heckuva signing if Bruce pans out. Reminds me of the early 90's Indians.

JaxRed
12-10-2010, 09:21 AM
In the "how much is too much for Votto" thread, I said $10 mill was the most the Reds should pay in a long term deal for a hitter. (They probably shouldn't ever go over 3 years for a pitcher).

This is exactly what the Reds should be doing on a long term deal.

1. Not over $10M per year average
2. No big balloon in final year
3. Since Reds are assuming all the risk, player should take less money.
4. No trade clause is fine when player has taken less money

I remember when Bruce came up there were interviews about how he and Votto were buddies. I'm hoping Votto signs a similar deal.

But that would probably mean saying goodbye to Phillips. We're not the Yankees.

Caveat Emperor
12-10-2010, 09:36 AM
Neat.

Get Votto signed or it's meaningless.

With Alonso, Grendal and Mesoraco coming through the minors (all with the potential to play 1B), losing Votto in the next 2 years wouldn't be crippling to the ballclub.

Losing Bruce AND Votto would be problematic. Good thing that's off the table.

UKFlounder
12-10-2010, 09:45 AM
It is rather amazing to wake up and read this news. Very cool.

edabbs44
12-10-2010, 09:47 AM
With Alonso, Grendal and Mesoraco coming through the minors (all with the potential to play 1B), losing Votto in the next 2 years wouldn't be crippling to the ballclub.

Losing Bruce AND Votto would be problematic. Good thing that's off the table.

Yeah, it seems like Jay and Joey are in different places. If Joey doesn't want to be here, then it is the FO's job to get a legit return for him.

Slyder
12-10-2010, 10:02 AM
Yeah, it seems like Jay and Joey are in different places. If Joey doesn't want to be here, then it is the FO's job to get a legit return for him.

I don't think its Joey doesn't want to be here just Joey wants paid market value for an MVP caliber first base production. Jay hasn't "turned the corner" to join the likes of Vlad Guerrero (in his prime), Ichiro, etc to really be in the same position. The one "mistake" (if you want to call it that) the Reds made was waiting 1 year too long on Votto, but at the same time maybe Votto is wanting to keep his options open in the future in case he wants to go home to Toronto to play for example.

This is great news about Bruce. Great deal for the Reds.

PuffyPig
12-10-2010, 10:10 AM
My first thought...Bruce should fire his agent. This is a GREAT deal for the Reds. Bruce still gets good money, but really he should be getting $15/yr the last few years of the deal. I wonder how he's going to feel in 4 years when he's outperforming what he's being paid.

Bruce could break his leg and make nothing without a long term contract.

Guaranteed $56M at his age is quite a feat, and he has to give up some potential to get that kind of security at that age.

It's not inconceivable that he could be making $12M and worth nothing. A player needs to give up some potential earnings or there is no reason for signing the player. Consider it insurance from Bruce's point of view. He gets set up for life, and gives up potential earnings.

PuffyPig
12-10-2010, 10:13 AM
In the "how much is too much for Votto" thread, I said $10 mill was the most the Reds should pay in a long term deal for a hitter. (They probably shouldn't ever go over 3 years for a pitcher).

This is exactly what the Reds should be doing on a long term deal.

1. Not over $10M per year average
2. No big balloon in final year
3. Since Reds are assuming all the risk, player should take less money.
4. No trade clause is fine when player has taken less money

I remember when Bruce came up there were interviews about how he and Votto were buddies. I'm hoping Votto signs a similar deal.

But that would probably mean saying goodbye to Phillips. We're not the Yankees.

If you don't go over $10M average for Votto, you won't get him signed for more than 3 years. He's further along than Bruce, and will likely be making in the $10M range by 2012 with any kind of season next year.

Reds Freak
12-10-2010, 10:15 AM
If you don't go over $10M average for Votto, you won't get him signed for more than 3 years. He's further along than Bruce, and will likely be making in the $10M range by 2012 with any kind of season next year.

I wonder if signing Bruce long-term will have any impact on Joey wanting to be here for awhile seeing as the two are pretty good buddies...

reds1869
12-10-2010, 10:15 AM
Great signing by the Reds. This just reaffirms the faith I have in this FO. We are living in a new era, Reds fans!

I(heart)Freel
12-10-2010, 10:15 AM
Yeah, it seems like Jay and Joey are in different places. If Joey doesn't want to be here, then it is the FO's job to get a legit return for him.

Agreed on the FO's job to get something for him before he walks. That's why I'm not worried about Joey not signing yet. Frankly, negotiating after an MVP season is foolish for the club. It's good they made overtures. But honestly, now is not the time to bargain.

Having said that, Joey is a completely different animal than Bruce. Or any athlete I've ever "met." Dude is honest to a fault. Instead of saying all the Bull Durham cliches when answering questions... he really thinks about every word of the question and carefully measures each word of the answer. It's crazy. Awesome, but crazy.

That is entirely why it *seems* like Jay and he are in different places. I'm not sure they are. It's just that Votto doesn't know how to communicate that in ways we as fans understand or are used to. It would be refreshing if it weren't so nerve-wracking.

Chip R
12-10-2010, 10:18 AM
I'm OK with this deal but I wouldn't have done it this year. Jay looked lost at the plate in midseason and many people - including myself - were ready to send him to LOU. He did straighten things out at the end of the season but he looked good at the end of 2009 too. It may be too early to say he's been injury prone but he has missed some time due to injuries. If he plays like he did the middle of this year and the beginning of last season or he's injured, the Reds overpaid. If he plays like he did when he first came up and at the end of the last two seasons, the Reds got a bargain.

JaxRed
12-10-2010, 10:23 AM
"If you don't go over $10M average for Votto, you won't get him signed for more than 3 years. He's further along than Bruce, and will likely be making in the $10M range by 2012 with any kind of season next year."

And to be honest, I'm okay with that. That means we will have had Votto for 7-8 years at reasonable rates, and then moved him for more prospects.

I'm also ok with Votto on a long term deal at $10mill per.

Red Leader
12-10-2010, 10:24 AM
I'm OK with this deal but I wouldn't have done it this year. Jay looked lost at the plate in midseason and many people - including myself - were ready to send him to LOU. He did straighten things out at the end of the season but he looked good at the end of 2009 too. It may be too early to say he's been injury prone but he has missed some time due to injuries. If he plays like he did the middle of this year and the beginning of last season or he's injured, the Reds overpaid. If he plays like he did when he first came up and at the end of the last two seasons, the Reds got a bargain.

Chip, this is EXACTLY when you SHOULD have signed him long term this offseason. His value is not yet at its peak. That's why you see the dollars on this contract that you do. If he had played the entire 2010 season like he did at the end, you're likely looking at an average of over $10M over the 6 years. And that's why I think it's going to be difficult to sign Votto long term. His value has obviously never been higher than it is right now. You can tell him you're interested in signing him long term, but it's not the right time to offer the contract. Unfortunately, if Votto repeats what he did this year over the next two years, there will never be a good time. He will have priced himself out of Cincinnati.

camisadelgolf
12-10-2010, 10:43 AM
I haven't seen the terms of the contract, but just to give people an idea of what $51MM over six years looks like:
2011 $6MM
2012 $7MM
2013 $8MM
2014 $9MM
2015 $10MM
2016 $11MM

I'd imagine the contract will end up being very back-loaded, though. I say that because that's how Justin Upton's contract ended up. He signed a six-year, $50MM contract before going into arbitration, and 76.7% of the money is coming in the last three years.

I love the extension. If Bruce continues to play like he did in 2010, this is going to end up being a crazy bargain.

Ghosts of 1990
12-10-2010, 10:45 AM
My first thought...Bruce should fire his agent. This is a GREAT deal for the Reds. Bruce still gets good money, but really he should be getting $15/yr the last few years of the deal. I wonder how he's going to feel in 4 years when he's outperforming what he's being paid.

If he's worth more he can maybe command a raise/extension.

When I talked to Bruce's agent Matt Sosnick, he basically positioned it as; Jay isn't trying to break the bank. he's not into money, and $51 million dollars is more money than Jay will ever need or be able to spend in his life. It's not about the money.

He's happy where he is. I think his agent did a fine job. The Reds haven't done a contract like this in a very long time.

PuffyPig
12-10-2010, 10:46 AM
I'm OK with this deal but I wouldn't have done it this year. Jay looked lost at the plate in midseason and many people - including myself - were ready to send him to LOU.

This kind of deal for Bruce was likely only available this year.

Bruce did something last year I've never seen him do; he hit LH pitchers very well, better than RH pitchers actually. That's a changed Bruce.

lollipopcurve
12-10-2010, 10:52 AM
Bruce did something last year I've never seen him do; he hit LH pitchers very well, better than RH pitchers actually. That's a changed Bruce.

In the latter part of the year, he demolished them. In my mind, it was a true breakthrough. He's got some things he can still improve on (contact rate), but I feel optimistic that he's going to keep improving.

flyer85
12-10-2010, 10:55 AM
very good move at a reasonable price in the current market.

_Sir_Charles_
12-10-2010, 10:56 AM
:clap::jump::clap:

Couldn't be happier. Nice!

redsmetz
12-10-2010, 11:01 AM
Agreed on the FO's job to get something for him before he walks. That's why I'm not worried about Joey not signing yet. Frankly, negotiating after an MVP season is foolish for the club. It's good they made overtures. But honestly, now is not the time to bargain.

Having said that, Joey is a completely different animal than Bruce. Or any athlete I've ever "met." Dude is honest to a fault. Instead of saying all the Bull Durham cliches when answering questions... he really thinks about every word of the question and carefully measures each word of the answer. It's crazy. Awesome, but crazy.

That is entirely why it *seems* like Jay and he are in different places. I'm not sure they are. It's just that Votto doesn't know how to communicate that in ways we as fans understand or are used to. It would be refreshing if it weren't so nerve-wracking.

I think this about the most astute analysis of Votto that I've seen. He's not given to platitudes and he seems to recognize that words having meaning and, therefore, he eschews cliches. Certainly his comments can be interpreted that he doesn't want to be here or that he wants to test the market someday or he's adamant that he gets top dollar. I'm not sure any of those things are true (although it's possible).

First priority is to get Votto under contract for this year and to do that now instead of letting it go to arbitration. Arbitration can be brutal and as a fan, I'm not interested in putting Votto through that. I think they can arrive at an equitable number and avoid it. Then we can work on a long term deal. It will be a tough job, to say the least, since the floodgates are opening again.

westofyou
12-10-2010, 11:02 AM
The Reds haven't done a contract like this in a very long time.
Because it went against the grain of the culture of the Reds ownership group. Now that that that has changed we're likely entering a stage in Reds history that can only be matched with the innovation laid by McPhail and Giles in the 30's and Howsam in the late 60's.

Cultural shifts are usually a plodding transformation in the game, often more transparent than apparent.

This however is an example of the later of those two, and this I like.

Chip R
12-10-2010, 11:07 AM
This kind of deal for Bruce was likely only available this year.

Bruce did something last year I've never seen him do; he hit LH pitchers very well, better than RH pitchers actually. That's a changed Bruce.


Likely but not certain. I don't want to be a wet blanket here. Like I said, I don't have a problem with it. I'm just saying if it were me, I'd wait at least another year. Defensively, he has few peers. But the Reds aren't going to pay him all that money because he's a great defensive player. They want and need for him to produce offensively at a high level on a consistent basis. It's easy for us to sit here and heap praises on Walt and ownership for locking Jay up but we can always come back here and second guess them. Two years from now, we can say that this deal was a mistake and Jay should be traded for a bag of balls. Walt only gets one chance to get this right. Two years from now, if Jay's underperforming, he can't undo the deal.

camisadelgolf
12-10-2010, 11:09 AM
Fangraphs chimed in. Matt Klaassen failed to recognize that Jay Bruce qualified as a super-two and claimed that Bruce was a small bargain nonetheless.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-jay-bruce-extension/

When I originally started working on this piece, I thought that Cincinnati had gotten a much bigger discount. But once I broke it down more carefully, it turns out to be pretty closer than I thought given the situation, with the Reds getting at least a slight bargain (half a win is not a big deal given the uncertainty in projections).

Ghosts of 1990
12-10-2010, 11:15 AM
Defensively, he has few peers. But the Reds aren't going to pay him all that money because he's a great defensive player. They want and need for him to produce offensively at a high level on a consistent basis.

I don't think the Reds would pay him all that money if he wasn't a great defensive player. That was part of it, IMO. If you look back on examples like Adam Dunn--this ownership group was split on whether to keep him or let him leave and I think the biggest detractor was their wasn't a spot to hide him; or at least that is what the baseball people in the front office were saying.

Because Bruce was a complete player, he gets this deal.

gonelong
12-10-2010, 11:26 AM
Here is a guy that can be a 3,4, or 5 hole hitter for you for the next 6 years while playing outstanding defense. Finally, the Reds take a chance on a guy *before* he breaks out and everybody and their sister sees his value.

Votto's my favorite player on the squad, and it's not even close. From a business standpoint, I'd go year-to-year with Votto now. If he plays at an MVP level for the next 3 seasons, you still have him in your control. If he comes back down to earth, maybe you can get him for a little less than coming off an MVP. I think I'd still bounce a few numbers off his agent to get a feel for where they stand.

GL

Red Leader
12-10-2010, 11:36 AM
From a business standpoint, I'd go year-to-year with Votto now. If he plays at an MVP level for the next 3 seasons, you still have him in your control. If he comes back down to earth, maybe you can get him for a little less than coming off an MVP. I think I'd still bounce a few numbers off his agent to get a feel for where they stand.

GL

Exactly, with Votto, I think you're at a point where you have to wait to see if his value comes down a little so he better fits the Red's budget. If not, you have to deal him when he's no longer affordable. Whether that's next offseason, the trade deadline of 2012, or the offseason 2012, no one knows. But I, too, would throw some offers at him and his agent over that period of time. That way you get a better feel of whether an extension is possible, how close you are, and at the very least, it lets Joey realize you want him here long term.

kaldaniels
12-10-2010, 11:36 AM
Poorly researched article from fangraphs, just ask brandon arroyo. Instead of trying to fit his conclusion from the original article to the author's newly found facts, Klassen should just call a mulligan and start from scratch.

camisadelgolf
12-10-2010, 11:46 AM
Poorly researched article from fangraphs, just ask brandon arroyo. Instead of trying to fit his conclusion from the original article to the author's newly found facts, Klassen should just call a mulligan and start from scratch.
I kind of feel bad for the guy. It's not that he didn't research it; it's that he made a mistake. It's very embarrassing.

YOu know, this is actually what I thought when I was drafting this piece. Then for some reason I thought I had gotten it wrong, and changed it. Now I see that what you are saying (what I originally thought) was right. This will teach me to write these things in the middle of the night then revise them while watching a toddler.

Still thing the general points hold, but his is embarrassing. Thanks for your patient and understanding tone!

Johnny Footstool
12-10-2010, 11:50 AM
If he's worth more he can maybe command a raise/extension.

When I talked to Bruce's agent Matt Sosnick, he basically positioned it as; Jay isn't trying to break the bank. he's not into money, and $51 million dollars is more money than Jay will ever need or be able to spend in his life. It's not about the money.

He's happy where he is. I think his agent did a fine job. The Reds haven't done a contract like this in a very long time.

A lot of players say that, but only the special ones let their actions speak for them.

The best part is, there was no posturing from Bruce's camp. He just quietly signed the deal he wanted.

I think I have a new favorite player.

Chip R
12-10-2010, 12:00 PM
I don't think the Reds would pay him all that money if he wasn't a great defensive player. That was part of it, IMO. If you look back on examples like Adam Dunn--this ownership group was split on whether to keep him or let him leave and I think the biggest detractor was their wasn't a spot to hide him; or at least that is what the baseball people in the front office were saying.

Because Bruce was a complete player, he gets this deal.


Sure, it's part of it but Corey Patterson was a great defensive player and the Reds got rid of him because he couldn't find find 1st base with a map, compass and a seeing eye dog. If Jay OPS is just north of 800, and he's performing a miracle in the field every day, he's not going to be worth it. He's gotta hit - as well as keeping on keeping on in the OF - to earn this deal.

They say you never get a second chance to make a first impression. Whether it be a first date or a job interview, it's important that you make a great first impression or there most likely won't be a second date or a job offer. I think we have been somewhat seduced by Jay when he first came up here. He could do no wrong out there. Even the most ardent Bruce supporter knew that he couldn't keep those numbers from his first week up forever - no one could. But I think that first week has somewhat cemented itself in our minds about what he can do. We believe that what he did in that first week is closer to his potential than what he did before he got hurt in 2009 because that was our first impression of him. and maybe it is. I certainly hope so. I hope some switch turned on in mid-August, early September for him that gets him closer to that guy we saw in his first week. But I don't think waiting at least another year was going to take him out of the Reds' price range. He would have to have a season for the ages to have that happen.

westofyou
12-10-2010, 12:55 PM
http://baseballmusings.com/?p=63097



I like deals like this. Bruce will play 2011 as a 24-year-old, so he’s still on the upswing of his career. The Reds will capture the entire peak of that career, letting some other team pay for the decline. Cincinnati avoids arbitration battles, and since Bruce is a super two, they could have faced four of those. The money is very reasonable, so if a trade comes along in the next few years, Cincinnati can get real value back. A great deal for both parties

TRF
12-10-2010, 01:02 PM
Sure, it's part of it but Corey Patterson was a great defensive player and the Reds got rid of him because he couldn't find find 1st base with a map, compass and a seeing eye dog. If Jay OPS is just north of 800, and he's performing a miracle in the field every day, he's not going to be worth it. He's gotta hit - as well as keeping on keeping on in the OF - to earn this deal.

They say you never get a second chance to make a first impression. Whether it be a first date or a job interview, it's important that you make a great first impression or there most likely won't be a second date or a job offer. I think we have been somewhat seduced by Jay when he first came up here. He could do no wrong out there. Even the most ardent Bruce supporter knew that he couldn't keep those numbers from his first week up forever - no one could. But I think that first week has somewhat cemented itself in our minds about what he can do. We believe that what he did in that first week is closer to his potential than what he did before he got hurt in 2009 because that was our first impression of him. and maybe it is. I certainly hope so. I hope some switch turned on in mid-August, early September for him that gets him closer to that guy we saw in his first week. But I don't think waiting at least another year was going to take him out of the Reds' price range. He would have to have a season for the ages to have that happen.

you know there is a light years difference between a .589 OPS and a .864 OPS. Patterson's D is fantastic, And Bruce's D is fantastic in RF, but at the plate, it isn't close.

I stated this in another thread, this is the GMing Jocketty excels at. It's the psychology of making a team more attractive to agents and players. He just wrapped up a young talent to and affordable deal for 6-7 years. He rewared his team's pitching leader. He lets players know this isn't a last ditch effort to stay in the game team anymore. Contenders play here.

But it's a double edged sword. it puts blinders on him when it comes to guys like Gomes, but as woy points out, changing a culture is hard. sometimes short term "bad" moves have to be made when viewing the big picture. Wayne Krivsky understood this. I think Walt does too, but it doesn't mean he won't make a mistake. This however isn't one of them.

reds44
12-10-2010, 01:48 PM
Apparently Walt learned his lesson from Votto. Lock him up before he blows up. Great deal.

reds1869
12-10-2010, 01:50 PM
I think I have a new favorite player.

As do I. Jay is a wonderful asset to this club and this city. I'm glad he'll be staying in town for a good long time!

PuffyPig
12-10-2010, 01:57 PM
Likely but not certain. I don't want to be a wet blanket here. Like I said, I don't have a problem with it. I'm just saying if it were me, I'd wait at least another year. Defensively, he has few peers. But the Reds aren't going to pay him all that money because he's a great defensive player. They want and need for him to produce offensively at a high level on a consistent basis. It's easy for us to sit here and heap praises on Walt and ownership for locking Jay up but we can always come back here and second guess them. Two years from now, we can say that this deal was a mistake and Jay should be traded for a bag of balls. Walt only gets one chance to get this right. Two years from now, if Jay's underperforming, he can't undo the deal.

If Bruce simply simply has the same year as he did last year this contract is a huge bargain.

If you wait another year, and he OPS's .900, it will cost us $20M or more.

Benihana
12-10-2010, 02:09 PM
Wow. Great deal. I can't believe anyone (other than noted contrarians) would argue against this being anything but a great do at this point, given the circumstances.
Well done Walt and Cast :clap:

gonelong
12-10-2010, 02:32 PM
Another thing I really like about this deal is it keeps a "name" guy on the roster for a few years to come. Jay is my 7 year old's favorite player and I am stoked that my boy will be able to comfortably root for this guy for the next x years like I did with Larkin and the guys.

GL

RedsManRick
12-10-2010, 02:33 PM
Here is a guy that can be a 3,4, or 5 hole hitter for you for the next 6 years while playing outstanding defense. Finally, the Reds take a chance on a guy *before* he breaks out and everybody and their sister sees his value.

Votto's my favorite player on the squad, and it's not even close. From a business standpoint, I'd go year-to-year with Votto now. If he plays at an MVP level for the next 3 seasons, you still have him in your control. If he comes back down to earth, maybe you can get him for a little less than coming off an MVP. I think I'd still bounce a few numbers off his agent to get a feel for where they stand.

GL

I agree with this 100%. There's very little upside to doing a Votto deal now -- the only value I see is the potential of securing the services of a very good player who might otherwise choose to leave 3 years from now. The cost-savings ship has sailed with Votto.

As for Bruce, we're paying him to be a 4 win player moving forward (accounting for arb) and he just put up a 5 win season. With his defense, Bruce could put up an .800 OPS and we'd be breaking even (assuming health). If he just repeats last year over and over again, the Reds come out ahead in this deal. If he continues to improve, it's a big-time win.

If I were a betting man, I'll take Bruce's total production over Votto's for the next 6 years.

OnBaseMachine
12-10-2010, 03:34 PM
I'm OK with this deal but I wouldn't have done it this year. Jay looked lost at the plate in midseason and many people - including myself - were ready to send him to LOU. He did straighten things out at the end of the season but he looked good at the end of 2009 too. It may be too early to say he's been injury prone but he has missed some time due to injuries. If he plays like he did the middle of this year and the beginning of last season or he's injured, the Reds overpaid. If he plays like he did when he first came up and at the end of the last two seasons, the Reds got a bargain.

Bruce's OPS by month in 2010:

April - .833
May - .827
June - .824
July - .508
August - 1.076
September - 1.025

Bruce was an above average hitter through the first three months, then had an awful July, then followed it up with two MVP caliber months. Even if he hits like he did from April-June then he's still a great player and worth the money.

Griffey012
12-10-2010, 03:50 PM
I can't wait to bring this thread back up at the end of next season when Jay has 30+ HR's, 100+RBI's and .300 AVG, and a 900 OPS.

Raisor
12-10-2010, 03:52 PM
Awesome news. I'm thinking about changing my username to JBruce32.

Red Leader
12-10-2010, 04:11 PM
Awesome news. I'm thinking about changing my username to JBruce32.

I'm thinking of changing mine to Raisor. Chicks dig that name. :beerme:

RedsBaron
12-10-2010, 04:29 PM
I think I have a new favorite player.

I've kicked around the idea of getting a Reds player's jersey, with the sad thought that as soon as I did so that player would leave Cincinnati. A no. 32 Bruce jersey might be a keeper, as I hope and assume he will be here for some time.

Johnny Footstool
12-10-2010, 04:50 PM
I've kicked around the idea of getting a Reds player's jersey, with the sad thought that as soon as I did so that player would leave Cincinnati. A no. 32 Bruce jersey might be a keeper, as I hope and assume he will be here for some time.

I'm thinking exactly the same thing. Didn't want to invest in a Votto jersey, but now my sons and I will get matching Bruce jerseys.

Cedric
12-10-2010, 05:33 PM
I'm thinking exactly the same thing. Didn't want to invest in a Votto jersey, but now my sons and I will get matching Bruce jerseys.

I bought a Cueto jersey right after spring training his rookie year. No matter what happens it's been a good investment.

The problem is when I got an authentic Peter Warrick jersey and within two years he was cut.

Joseph
12-10-2010, 06:04 PM
Congrats to Jay and the Reds. The limited no trade clause info would be nice insight into his line of thinking.

Ron Madden
12-10-2010, 06:07 PM
Joey Votto might very well be the best player on the team right now but I must admit Jay Bruce has always been my favorite. :)

paintmered
12-10-2010, 06:49 PM
If he's worth more he can maybe command a raise/extension.

When I talked to Bruce's agent Matt Sosnick, he basically positioned it as; Jay isn't trying to break the bank. he's not into money, and $51 million dollars is more money than Jay will ever need or be able to spend in his life. It's not about the money.

He's happy where he is. I think his agent did a fine job. The Reds haven't done a contract like this in a very long time.

If Jay truly has that attitude with Cincinnati, he will have this town wrapped around his finger for the rest of his life.

Caveat Emperor
12-10-2010, 06:57 PM
If Jay truly has that attitude with Cincinnati, he will have this town wrapped around his finger for the rest of his life.

It's amazing what a culture change and a GM who understands how to build a winning franchise can do for an organization.

Walt clearly understands how to create an environment that players believe will lead to success and want to become a part of.

OnBaseMachine
12-10-2010, 07:34 PM
From John Fay:

Just got an email from Jay Bruce confirming the deal. He's holding off on further comment till Tues. when the deal will be announced. #reds

http://twitter.com/johnfayman

bucksfan2
12-10-2010, 08:44 PM
A couple of aspects I don't like about the deal
- He isn't Joey Votto
- I was ready to send him to AAA last year

Other than that I do like the deal. I think there is more risk in the deal than many here but IF Jay develops into the player we all want and hope for this is a great deal.

I think Jay will always be a very nice complementary piece. I don't think he will ever attain MVP status like Votto did. That isn't a bad thing, just more of a reality.

OnBaseMachine
12-10-2010, 08:53 PM
I think Jay will always be a very nice complementary piece. I don't think he will ever attain MVP status like Votto did. That isn't a bad thing, just more of a reality.

I do. I think he's a darkhorse candidate to win the MVP next season or at least receive a few votes. He's got the talent to be a .950 OPS bat and he's already an elite defender.

There may have been a few people who were ready to send him to Louisville last season but that was crazy talk, IMO. He had one bad month, albeit a very bad one, out of six months. He OPS'ed over .820 in the first three months, then had the bad month and then played like a MVP the final two months (and was one of the few Reds to show up offensively in the playoffs).

TheNext44
12-10-2010, 09:11 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to find Bruce as the Reds best player by the time Votto's free agency arrives.

IslandRed
12-10-2010, 09:37 PM
I think Jay will always be a very nice complementary piece. I don't think he will ever attain MVP status like Votto did. That isn't a bad thing, just more of a reality.

I guess you have a likelihood of being right, in the sense that very few players ever reach deserving-MVP status.

But let's chew on this for a minute: Votto made his major-league debut a few days before his 24th birthday. Bruce will turn 24 a few days after opening day 2011. I can't really blame the Reds for bringing him up when they did (he was hitting .360something in Louisville if I recall) but clearly he had some holes waiting to be exposed, and he's had to work through it at the major-league level.

PuffyPig
12-10-2010, 10:01 PM
Bruce is severly underrated on this baord.

A 5+ WAR player this year, he's already into the all star range of comparbale players.

If he simply remains the same player this contract is very good.

His potential is still enourmous considering his age.

I'd say his upper potential limit is greater than Votto's, and I've a huge Votto fan.

Homer Bailey
12-10-2010, 10:06 PM
Bruce is severly underrated by a select few on this baord.

A 5+ WAR player this year, he's already into the all star range of comparbale players.

If he simply remains the same player this contract is very good.

His potential is still enourmous considering his age.

I'd say his upper potential limit is greater than Votto's, and I've a huge Votto fan.

Fixed.

PuffyPig
12-10-2010, 10:07 PM
Fixed.

Thank you, you are correct.

thatcoolguy_22
12-10-2010, 10:21 PM
Bruce is severly underrated on this baord.

A 5+ WAR player this year, he's already into the all star range of comparbale players.

If he simply remains the same player this contract is very good.

His potential is still enormous considering his age.

I'd say his upper potential limit is greater than Votto's, and I've a huge Votto fan.

this

He has the potential to have a very similar bat to our MVP and he plays GG caliber defense in a more demanding position. This signing is huge and will be a bargain. Well done, Walt!

Redsfan320
12-10-2010, 11:14 PM
I like it. Lockin' Bruuuuuuuuuuucey up!

320

Cedric
12-10-2010, 11:48 PM
What a tremendous signing. There is a much greater chance that Bruce is the league's best bargain in three years, than him being anywhere near overpaid.

This kind of move is something you just didn't see from past Reds FO's. It's another sign that the general optimism we all feel is warranted.

Tornon
12-11-2010, 12:39 AM
He's holding off on further comment till Tues. when the deal will be announced. #reds

http://twitter.com/johnfayman

That strikes me as odd.. why are they waiting to announce it on Tuesday when everybody already knows on Friday?

OnBaseMachine
12-11-2010, 12:41 AM
That strikes me as odd.. why are they waiting to announce it on Tuesday when everybody already knows on Friday?

Because he's flying to Cincinnati on Monday for a physical.

mth123
12-11-2010, 04:41 AM
I haven't seen the terms of the contract, but just to give people an idea of what $51MM over six years looks like:
2011 $6MM
2012 $7MM
2013 $8MM
2014 $9MM
2015 $10MM
2016 $11MM

I'd imagine the contract will end up being very back-loaded, though. I say that because that's how Justin Upton's contract ended up. He signed a six-year, $50MM contract before going into arbitration, and 76.7% of the money is coming in the last three years.

I love the extension. If Bruce continues to play like he did in 2010, this is going to end up being a crazy bargain.

I'm guessing its more along the lines of 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 with an option at $15 or a $3 Million buy-out. People are assuming that the last year is $12 Million because that is the incremental cost from guaranteed w/o the option vs. guaranteed with the option. Options usually have buy-outs attached and the later year salaries are more realistic at 13 and 15 with the 13 becoming 16 if the option is denied. Besides, Walt has been all about adding years for lower cost in 2011. Can't see Bruce getting $6 Million in 2011 when he likley would have gotten half of that in arb.

PuffyPig
12-11-2010, 09:28 AM
I'm guessing its more along the lines of 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 with an option at $15 or a $3 Million buy-out. People are assuming that the last year is $12 Million because that is the incremental cost from guaranteed w/o the option vs. guaranteed with the option. Options usually have buy-outs attached and the later year salaries are more realistic at 13 and 15 with the 13 becoming 16 if the option is denied. Besides, Walt has been all about adding years for lower cost in 2011. Can't see Bruce getting $6 Million in 2011 when he likley would have gotten half of that in arb.

I've seen it reported as 6 years at $51, 6 years at $56, and an option for $12M. I assume the option is for $12M, with a $5M guaranteed buy out.

camisadelgolf
12-11-2010, 09:29 AM
I'm guessing its more along the lines of 3, 5, 7, 9, 11, 13 with an option at $15 or a $3 Million buy-out. People are assuming that the last year is $12 Million because that is the incremental cost from guaranteed w/o the option vs. guaranteed with the option. Options usually have buy-outs attached and the later year salaries are more realistic at 13 and 15 with the 13 becoming 16 if the option is denied. Besides, Walt has been all about adding years for lower cost in 2011. Can't see Bruce getting $6 Million in 2011 when he likley would have gotten half of that in arb.
I believe the buyout is $1MM. Also, I read that the total of the contract is $51.25MM. None of that is including bonuses for Gold Gloves, All-Star selections, MVP awards, etc.

traderumor
12-11-2010, 09:34 AM
I heard that the contract included a Kinect to go with his Xbox.

Mario-Rijo
12-11-2010, 02:08 PM
I heard that the contract included a Kinect to go with his Xbox.

With a copy of Dance Central, what a clincher Walt!

PuffyPig
12-11-2010, 03:10 PM
With a copy of Dance Central, what a clincher Walt!

If Bruce required a Dance Central the deal is off.....

paintmered
12-11-2010, 04:34 PM
No, it was Rock Band 3 with the six-string Strat. He's going to have Bronson teach him how to play.

The Operator
12-12-2010, 03:57 AM
He's going to have Bronson teach him how to play.The Horror... The Horror...

http://www.richmondbizsense.com/images//jpeterman.jpg

reds44
12-12-2010, 04:16 AM
Remember when he hit that BOMB in game two?

One of the few highlights of the post season. Well, one of like two.

gm
12-12-2010, 04:31 AM
This kind of deal for Bruce was likely only available this year.

Bruce did something last year I've never seen him do; he hit LH pitchers very well, better than RH pitchers actually. That's a changed Bruce.

I think we grudgingly have to give Jim Edmonds some credit for this

wheels
12-12-2010, 05:50 PM
What a tremendous signing. There is a much greater chance that Bruce is the league's best bargain in three years, than him being anywhere near overpaid.

This kind of move is something you just didn't see from past Reds FO's. It's another sign that the general optimism we all feel is warranted.

Yuppers.

A good friend of mine reminded me of a bunch stuff that I was going through this summer, and how I was being kind of a Debbie Downer. He did notice that whenever Jay Bruce came up in conversation that I would automatically snap out of it and smile.

I'm just glad that the Powers That Be might feel the same way about the kid.

I, for one, am grateful.

PuffyPig
12-12-2010, 06:55 PM
I think we grudgingly have to give Jim Edmonds some credit for this

WHy grudgingly?

The veteran leadership from guys like Rolen and Edmunds is one of the reasons why this team failed to die when presented with every opportunity to do so.

Bruce may well owe Edmonds 51M thinks.

Ron Madden
12-12-2010, 07:29 PM
WHy grudgingly?

The veteran leadership from guys like Rolen and Edmunds is one of the reasons why this team failed to die when presented with every opportunity to do so.

Bruce may well owe Edmonds 51M thinks.

I understand what you guys are saying but we have to give Jay some credit here, don't we?

dougdirt
12-12-2010, 09:05 PM
I think we grudgingly have to give Jim Edmonds some credit for this

Bruce killed lefties in the minor leagues, OPSing over .875 down there for his Milb Career.

Ron Madden
12-12-2010, 11:45 PM
That strikes me as odd.. why are they waiting to announce it on Tuesday when everybody already knows on Friday?

I hear Jim Edmonds is carrying Jay on his back from Texas to Cincinnati. ;)

jk

Ron Madden
12-13-2010, 12:35 PM
Thought I'd share this from Baseball Prospectus.

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=12573

OnBaseMachine
12-13-2010, 10:52 PM
From John Fay:

#Reds have a 1:30 press conference tomorrow. Bruce must have passed his physical.

http://twitter.com/johnfayman

Ghosts of 1990
12-14-2010, 11:01 AM
Almost a week later, I'm still beaming about this. This really made the 2010 off season.

REDREAD
12-14-2010, 12:07 PM
I'm OK with this deal but I wouldn't have done it this year. Jay looked lost at the plate in midseason and many people - including myself - were ready to send him to LOU. He did straighten things out at the end of the season but he looked good at the end of 2009 too. It may be too early to say he's been injury prone but he has missed some time due to injuries. If he plays like he did the middle of this year and the beginning of last season or he's injured, the Reds overpaid. If he plays like he did when he first came up and at the end of the last two seasons, the Reds got a bargain.

I see your point here. I remember the constant lobbying to sign Dunn and Kearns longterm before they were co-MVPs for the decade. It turns out that contractually, the FO was right exercise caution.

I think Bruce is worth a gamble though. He's young and athletic. Of course, there's always the risk he will go Kearns on us. As others point out, if the Reds wait until he's a sure thing, they aren't going to be able to afford him. We have to take some risks to keep the club competitive.

Eric_the_Red
12-14-2010, 12:11 PM
I see your point here. I remember the constant lobbying to sign Dunn and Kearns longterm before they were co-MVPs for the decade. It turns out that contractually, the FO was right exercise caution.

I think Bruce is worth a gamble though. He's young and athletic. Of course, there's always the risk he will go Kearns on us. As others point out, if the Reds wait until he's a sure thing, they aren't going to be able to afford him. We have to take some risks to keep the club competitive.

Just keep Ray King away from Jay and hopefully he'll be fine.

Ghosts of 1990
12-14-2010, 12:57 PM
I see your point here. I remember the constant lobbying to sign Dunn and Kearns longterm before they were co-MVPs for the decade. It turns out that contractually, the FO was right exercise caution.

I think Bruce is worth a gamble though. He's young and athletic. Of course, there's always the risk he will go Kearns on us. As others point out, if the Reds wait until he's a sure thing, they aren't going to be able to afford him. We have to take some risks to keep the club competitive.

Two things.

1) I think Adam Dunn was worthy of a long-term (somewhat) deal. I think Bob Castellini was in this court but the front office talked him out of it. I can dig up the link if I need to.

2) Bruce has been consistent and better longer than Austin Kearns. They might be similar in a few areas but they're very different also.

HeatherC1212
12-14-2010, 01:21 PM
It's official: http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/

:jump:

REDREAD
12-14-2010, 02:56 PM
Two things.

1) I think Adam Dunn was worthy of a long-term (somewhat) deal. I think Bob Castellini was in this court but the front office talked him out of it. I can dig up the link if I need to.

2) Bruce has been consistent and better longer than Austin Kearns. They might be similar in a few areas but they're very different also.

I'm not going to dispute that Cast probably wanted Dunn around. I don't think Dunn wanted to stay at the Reds price. Based on comments that Dunn made, I think he was sick of having Marty bash him every night as well.

In the end, letting Dunn go was the right move. I applaud Walt for making that tough decision. I think if Wayne was still GM, he would've resigned Dunner.

Kearns was probably hyped up just as much, if not more than Bruce. Not saying that the talent level is the same, but people were predicting multiple MVP years out of Kearns too.

I am happy about this signing, don't get me wrong.. But I can understand where Chip is coming from. This is a bit of a gamble.

Ron Madden
12-14-2010, 03:09 PM
Every long term deal is a gamble.


I honestly believe this deal is worth the gamble.

HeatherC1212
12-14-2010, 03:11 PM
Any info from the press conference for those of us stuck at work who can't watch it?

RedsManRick
12-14-2010, 03:28 PM
Any info from the press conference for those of us stuck at work who can't watch it?

He'd rather hit a walk-off homer than save a game with a defensive play, but he's very happy doing both. :D

Caveat Emperor
12-14-2010, 03:40 PM
Any info from the press conference for those of us stuck at work who can't watch it?

Thought this little nugget was very interesting:


“The thing with Joey is he’s been a little different,” Bruce said. “I think people are construing it a little different than it is. Joey does not want to leave. He told me last night I don’t want to go anywhere. I love Cincinnati. I want to be here. You have to understand Joey and I are in a different situation. He’s almost four years older than me. He doesn’t want to go anywhere for people to think that he does is not the right thought.”
http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2010/12/14/bruce-joey-does-not-want-to-go-anywhere/

MattyHo4Life
12-14-2010, 08:21 PM
Kearns was probably hyped up just as much, if not more than Bruce. Not saying that the talent level is the same, but people were predicting multiple MVP years out of Kearns too.

I remember a lot of Dunn/Kearns debates here on Redszone. It seemed like a lot of people... if not most... thought Kearns would have a better career than Dunn when all was said and ummm...done. lol

paintmered
12-14-2010, 08:31 PM
I remember a lot of Dunn/Kearns debates here on Redszone. It seemed like a lot of people... if not most... thought Kearns would have a better career than Dunn when all was said and ummm...done. lol

That assumed Kearns wouldn't blow out his shoulder by the hands, err... posterior, of Ray King.

Austin was tearing up the league until that game. He was only putting up a .309/.417/.599/1.016 line as a 22/23 year old until that fateful day. Kearns was never the same since.

So laugh all you want at our over-optimistic predictions of Kearns. I still maintain that he would have lived up to his promise if he had both shoulders.

MattyHo4Life
12-14-2010, 09:07 PM
So laugh all you want at our over-optimistic predictions of Kearns. I still maintain that he would have lived up to his promise if he had both shoulders.

No worries... I had the same optimistic predictions that Rick Ankiel would become a multiple Cy Young award winner. We all know how that turned out. lol

westofyou
12-14-2010, 09:14 PM
That assumed Kearns wouldn't blow out his shoulder by the hands, err... posterior, of Ray King.

Austin was tearing up the league until that game. He was only putting up a .309/.417/.599/1.016 line as a 22/23 year old until that fateful day. Kearns was never the same since.

So laugh all you want at our over-optimistic predictions of Kearns. I still maintain that he would have lived up to his promise if he had both shoulders.

I don't think his shoulder stopped his development, he peaked early is my best guess.

Bernie Carbo version 2.0 (sans drugs)

Sometimes the league catches up with you (and in Kearns case I think he got thicker as well)

OnBaseMachine
12-14-2010, 10:19 PM
That assumed Kearns wouldn't blow out his shoulder by the hands, err... posterior, of Ray King.

Austin was tearing up the league until that game. He was only putting up a .309/.417/.599/1.016 line as a 22/23 year old until that fateful day. Kearns was never the same since.

So laugh all you want at our over-optimistic predictions of Kearns. I still maintain that he would have lived up to his promise if he had both shoulders.

Agreed. Kearns was on his way to becoming a superstar until the collision at home plate with Ray King. Up to that point, he could do it all - hit for average, power to all fields, good plate discipline, strong throwing arm, and was a great defensive outfielder. I remember thinking he and Dunn would be perennial MVP candidates...well, Dunn has lived up to his hype but Kearns never recovered from that injury.

I(heart)Freel
12-14-2010, 10:36 PM
Anyone see the year by year breakdown for Bruce? Anxious to plug them into the spreadsheet and determine (1) if the Reds are at budget for 2011 and (2) what kind of messy situation will they be in in 2012 when as many as 10 Reds are arbitration-eligible. Ugh.

OnBaseMachine
12-14-2010, 10:46 PM
C. Trent Q&A with Jay Bruce:

http://mlb-facts-and-rumors.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/26450348

Ron Madden
12-15-2010, 05:00 AM
C. Trent Q&A with Jay Bruce:

http://mlb-facts-and-rumors.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22297882/26450348

Thanks for sharing this article OBM. :thumbup:

kaldaniels
12-16-2010, 12:03 AM
Am I just viewing Bruce through red-tinted lenses now, or it this just a guy who absolutely "gets it". From his comments about winning and then speaking about managing his money wisely in the C Trent article, he just seems mature beyond his years. He has mentioned before how he wanted to stay in Cincy and boy did he sure walk the walk. Talent and on-the-field results trump everything, no doubt, but I'd love for the Reds to persue more players who are Bruce-esque.

/now watch him appear in some drunken bar photos on deadspin tommorrow

redsmetz
12-22-2010, 10:27 AM
Sheldon posted a blog with the details of Bruce's contract. Some of his bonuses are very achievable. I agree with Sheldon that it's a good deal for both sides.

http://marksheldon.mlblogs.com/archives/2010/12/details_of_bruces_contract.html

redsmetz
12-22-2010, 10:20 PM
I'm surprised there's been no additional comments on the contract structure. I think it's very well spread out, particular in these first early years.