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Mario-Rijo
12-19-2010, 09:58 AM
The Greinke move by the Brew Crew got folks comparing their rotation to the rest in the division and that got me thinking about how the entire division stacks up at this point in all phases. It's early yet but hey it's a fun exercise and with Walt and his cronies seemingly satisfied with what they have I don't really expect any movement so this should give us an idea of how we stack up.

NL Central Rotations
#1 - St. Louis with the edge IMO though it's now much closer
#2 - Milwaukee
#3 - Cincy
#4 - Houston
#5 - Chicago
#6 - Pittsburgh

NL Central offenses
#1 - St. Louis
#2 - Cincy
#3 - Milwaukee
#4 - Houston
#5 - Chicago
#6 - Pittsburgh

NL Central defenses
#1 - Cincy (by a landslide)
#2 - St. Louis
#3 - Chicago
#4 - Houston
#5 - Pittsburgh
#6 - Milwaukee

NL Central Bullpens
#1 - Chicago
#2 - Cincy
#3 - St. Louis
#4 - Houston
#5 - Milwaukee
#6 - Pittsburgh

NL Central Baserunning/Basestealing
#1 - Cincy
#2 - Pittsburgh
#3 - Chicago
#4 - St. Louis
#5 - Houston
#6 - Milwaukee

Here is mine what say you?

mth123
12-19-2010, 02:08 PM
Rotations

1. Milwaukee
2. St. Louis
3. Cincy
4. Houston
5. Chicago
6. Pittsburgh

Offense

1. Milwaukee - Weeks, Braun, Fielder, McGeehee and Hart are the most imposing core in the Division.
2. St. Louis - Theriot and Berkman help
3. Cincy - Improvment in RF, Status Quo at CF and 2B, probable drop-offs everywhere else. A lot depends on how far forward Bruce steps and how far Votto and Rolen drop.
4. Chicago - A lot of decent bats who need to bounce back. If Ramirez and Pena become .900 OPS guys again, they could be pretty good. I'd bet against it in Pena's case especially. Not sure what to expect at C and SS, but they have the potential to be the best in the division at both spots.
5. Houston - Pittsburgh is gaining on them.
6. Pittsburgh - Need Alvarez to become a monster and Walker and somebody else to provide a decent middle around him. Too many holes IMO.
Defense

1. Cincy - Easily, after the Reds they all are fairly poor IMO.
2. Cubs - Decent IF, but LF and 2B look pretty shaky
3. Houston - With Lee at 1B the OF can be pretty good but the SS is better at 2B and the 2B is better as a PH. Need to see more of Johnson to have an opinion of 3B.
4. Milwaukee - the OF can be pretty good. 2B is OK, 1B and SS are bad. 3B is below average IMO Lucroy is a good young catcher.
5. Pittsburgh - Good in CF. Poor all around the IF with Cedeno at SS being the most close to average. C is decent and the Corner OF can be average or better.
6. St. Louis - Good at C and 1B. Adequate in CF. IF Holiday plays LF and Berkman RF LF will be fair and RF awful. If they switch, both will be below average. SS will be below average. 2B may be the worst in the league. Need to see more of Freese, but I think he's OK.

Baserunning

Need to study this more but I can't imagine any team with Brandon (Farney) Phillips being at the top.

Bullpens (probably could still change a lot)

1. Chicago - I like Marmol/Wood and Sean Marshall is a useful guy.
2. Cincy - Cordero needs to be decent, but Chapman and Masset make a nice power duo. Lots of depth and potential to be the best if Cordero bounces back.
3. St. Louis - Franklin, McLellan and Motte is better than most think and Dave Duncan will make them at least average as a group.
4, 5, 6 - Pick 'em.

BCubb2003
12-19-2010, 03:04 PM
The Reds had the NL's most potent offense last year. I wonder if you see that changing significantly next season.

mth123
12-19-2010, 03:10 PM
The Reds had the NL's most potent offense last year. I wonder if you see that changing significantly next season.

Yes. Drop-offs in a lot of places. Barren at the top of the order and missing at least one bat in the middle. Plenty of 6 and 7 hole guys who are solid as complementary types, but not a good line-up from top to bottom IMO.

Mario-Rijo
12-19-2010, 03:33 PM
Yes. Drop-offs in a lot of places. Barren at the top of the order and missing at least one bat in the middle. Plenty of 6 and 7 hole guys who are solid as complementary types, but not a good line-up from top to bottom IMO.

Ditto however I like our upside compared to the Brewers as they have it worse IMO. I see where your argument there is (Weeks/Braun/Fielder/McGahee/Hart) but I see them as much more streaky and their holes are virtual blackholes. Votto/Rolen/Bruce/Stubbs/Phillips are better supported and I think more consistent.

Votto > Fielder
Braun > Bruce (this could/should become much more even)
McGahee > Rolen
BP = Hart IMO
Weeks = Stubbs IMO (this could change if Stubbs starts dropping down some bunts, it will open up his game quite a bit and I expect some regression from Weeks)

So pretty close overall but

Hanigan/Hernandez > Than Brewers catchers even if they don't play as well as last year
Gomes/Heisey/LHH OF > Dickerson/Gomez
Betancourt > Janish

So I give us a slight advantage IF Bruce jumps up to that next level which I expect him to.

reds1869
12-19-2010, 03:40 PM
It is fun to see the variety of opinions on here! Here's my list.


NL Central Rotations
#1 - St. Louis (Brewers and Reds are closing the gap)
#2 - Milwaukee
#3 - Cincinnati
#4 - Houston
#5 - Chicago
#6 - Pittsburgh

NL Central offenses
#1 - Milwaukee
#2 - Cincinnati (close but the Brewers have a lot of thump)
#3 - St. Louis
#4 - Chicago
#5 - Houston
#6 - Pittsburgh

NL Central defenses
#1 - Cincinnati--and it isn't even close. The rest are pretty bad and can be shifted like deck chairs on the Titanic.

#2 - Chicago
#3 - St. Louis
#4 - Houston
#5 - Pittsburgh
#6 - Milwaukee

NL Central Bullpens
#1 - Chicago
#2 - Cincinnati (bump to #1 if Coco gets it together)
#3 - St. Louis
#4 - Houston
#5 - Milwaukee
#6 - Pittsburgh

NL Central Baserunning/Basestealing
#1 - Cincinnati by a decent margin
#2 - Pittsburgh--their one strong suit
#3 - Chicago
#4 - St. Louis
#5 - Houston
#6 - Milwaukee

mth123
12-19-2010, 03:44 PM
Ditto however I like our upside compared to the Brewers as they have it worse IMO. I see where your argument there is (Weeks/Braun/Fielder/McGahee/Hart) but I see them as much more streaky and their holes are virtual blackholes. Votto/Rolen/Bruce/Stubbs/Phillips are better supported and I think more consistent.

Votto > Fielder
Braun > Bruce (this could/should become much more even)
McGahee > Rolen
BP = Hart IMO
Weeks = Stubbs IMO (this could change if Stubbs starts dropping down some bunts, it will open up his game quite a bit and I expect some regression from Weeks)

So pretty close overall but

Hanigan/Hernandez > Than Brewers catchers even if they don't play as well as last year
Gomes/Heisey/LHH OF > Dickerson/Gomez
Betancourt > Janish

So I give us a slight advantage IF Bruce jumps up to that next level which I expect him to.

Well, not sure I agree.

I like Bruce better than all of them for 2011 (including Votto), but Braun, Fielder, Weeks, Hart and McGeehee are all better than anyone on the Reds not named Votto or Bruce and Braun and maybe Weeks are close to those two.