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View Full Version : so whos next in line for your reds wish list?



webbbj
12-20-2010, 12:27 PM
im guessing this come via trade if were topped out on payroll. and its gonna be a LF or SS.

Vottomatic
12-20-2010, 05:08 PM
The Reds aren't going to do anything. They've spoken loudly so far with their silence.

Hondo
12-20-2010, 05:18 PM
Carlos Reyes SS and Lead Off Hitter

They cannot go into the Regular Season with Janish as the Starter...

I am fine with Gomes and Heisey in Left going into the season as long as Lead off and SS are taken care of.

Orodle
12-20-2010, 06:44 PM
Carlos Reyes SS and Lead Off Hitter

They cannot go into the Regular Season with Janish as the Starter...

I am fine with Gomes and Heisey in Left going into the season as long as Lead off and SS are taken care of.

They played some of their best ball when Janish was the starter for awhile last season.

Hondo
12-20-2010, 06:49 PM
They played some of their best ball when Janish was the starter for awhile last season.

Janish is not an everyday player. Bench player IMO... The same opinion of many in and around Baseball.

FlyerFanatic
12-20-2010, 07:06 PM
Janish is not an everyday player. Bench player IMO... The same opinion of many in and around Baseball.

would you choose ocab over janish given the choice?

RedLakerFan24
12-20-2010, 07:17 PM
Jose Reyes, we need a leadoff hitter, and he's available, Janish cant be a leadoff, he's a 8th hitter at best, but we dont need an 8th hitter, we need a leadoff hitter. And i dont think there's a LF available, so Jose Reyes would be my choice.

Vottomatic
12-20-2010, 09:02 PM
Janish is not an everyday player. Bench player IMO... The same opinion of many in and around Baseball.

Please cite some sources for this "same opinion of many in and around baseball."

Hondo
12-21-2010, 12:36 AM
Please cite some sources for this "same opinion of many in and around baseball."

http://www.rototimes.com/mlb/player/6510/notes#172717

Our View:A workmanlike defender, Janish hit .260 to go along with a .338 on-base percentage last season. However, already 28 years old, he has little upside, and would surely see his numbers nose dive were he to be given a full complement of at-bats next season. He won't be a fantasy option outside of NL-only leagues.


http://www.bukisa.com/articles/244265_top-5-shortstop-ss-sleepers-2010-fantasy-baseball-draft-guide

#5 - Drew Sutton - SS - Cincinnati Reds (26)

Earning some playing time during the second half of the 2009 season for the Reds, Sutton would be the favorite to win the starting SS job for the Reds if he would have had just a solid showing. However after struggling a bit at the plate during the 2009 season, Sutton will need an excellent spring training if he wishes to win the starting SS job over Paul Janish for the Reds to begin the 2010 season. Yet luckily for Sutton, he can provide solid utility play, as he saw playing time at SS, 2B, 3B, LF, and RF over 23 games for the Reds during the 2009 season. Displaying a solid power and speed combination on the offensive end, including a 20 homerun and 20 stolen base year in the minors during the 2008 season, there is no doubt that Sutton offers a ton more offensive potential than Paul Janish. If Janish starts the 2010 season slowly at the plate, Sutton could very easily swoop in and take over the starting SS job and keep it.

2009 Minor League Stats: 172 AB, 33 R, 5 HR, 22 RBI, 1 SB, .262 AVG

2009 Major League Stats: 66 AB, 10 R, 1 HR, 9 RBI, 0 SB, .212 AVG

2010 Major League Stat Projections: 55 R, 8 HR, 50 RBI, 15 SB, .275 AVG

http://www.redreporter.com/2010/10/29/1771718/compare-contrast-a-superficial-glance-at-shortstop

Bottom line: Good shortstops are hard to come by, which is why they're so valuable. The Reds will not have a good shortstop in 2011, although by playing Janish every day, they may be able to capitalize on the glove in order to stabilize a young pitching staff.

http://www.sportingnews.com/mlb/feed/2010-11/baseball-free-agency/story/peralta-deal-sets-the-bar-for-thin-shortstop-market

With most clubs set at shortstop, it looks like a buyer's market even though the pickings are slim. Assuming Jeter stays in New York, the Giants, Reds and Orioles are the clubs in obvious need of a regular shortstop.

Vottomatic
12-21-2010, 12:51 AM
Weak sources.

RedLakerFan24
12-21-2010, 01:03 AM
Weak sources.

Doesnt matter, you asked for sources and he gave you some.

Vottomatic
12-21-2010, 03:25 AM
Doesnt matter, you asked for sources and he gave you some.

Yes I did.

He gave me his weak sources.

It explains alot.

Thanks.:rolleyes:

Quatitos
12-21-2010, 03:40 AM
Yes I did.

He gave me his weak sources.

It explains alot.

Thanks.:rolleyes:

Agreed, the first "source" is about fantasy, which basically means he's not one of the top 15 or so SS's in the game in terms of offensive numbers. Doesn't take into account defense or anything besides the nice counting numbers that count in fantasy.

The second "source" is a year old which doesn't take into account the improvement he showed when he was given his prolonged chance last season and showed decent improvement. This is also another story about fantasy, which weakens it even more.

Third "source" I liked where the quote was cut off, the next line read: "If he hits 8th, this position may still yet improve again for next year." showing the Janish is not the worst thing that could happen to the team as was trying to be pointed out. This is also just some random fan post, which gives it very little credibility anyways.

The fourth source, while being from the most credible source out of all of them, it is probably the weakest of them all since it is such a superficial glance at the Red's situation that it is laughable it was included.

Hondo
12-21-2010, 02:39 PM
Yes I did.

He gave me his weak sources.

It explains alot.

Thanks.:rolleyes:

Steve Phillips said the same thing on Fanhouse... But you would have said the same thing about him too...

Get this through to your Brain.

Paul Janish is 28 years old. He is not going to somehow improve to be a full time starter. He is a back up infielder. Great Defender in part time role.

He is what he is.

Hondo
12-21-2010, 02:44 PM
Agreed, the first "source" is about fantasy, which basically means he's not one of the top 15 or so SS's in the game in terms of offensive numbers. Doesn't take into account defense or anything besides the nice counting numbers that count in fantasy.

The second "source" is a year old which doesn't take into account the improvement he showed when he was given his prolonged chance last season and showed decent improvement. This is also another story about fantasy, which weakens it even more.

Third "source" I liked where the quote was cut off, the next line read: "If he hits 8th, this position may still yet improve again for next year." showing the Janish is not the worst thing that could happen to the team as was trying to be pointed out. This is also just some random fan post, which gives it very little credibility anyways.

The fourth source, while being from the most credible source out of all of them, it is probably the weakest of them all since it is such a superficial glance at the Red's situation that it is laughable it was included.

Listen Dude, I don't have 20 of the 30 GM's cell numbers at my disposal but if I did you would probably be 99% with Janish not being a starter...

Lets go through the list.

Andino, Robert + Orioles SS 66 .295 .340 .459 .273 1.556 .045 .197 .318 .424 831
Andrus, Elvis + Rangers SS 657 .265 .317 .301 .237 1.135 .097 .146 .335 .269 612
Aviles, Mike + Royals SS 448 .304 .327 .413 .288 1.357 .045 .109 .333 .391 786
Aybar, Erick # Angels SS 578 .253 .289 .330 .234 1.304 .061 .140 .294 .304 564
Barney, Darwin + Cubs SS 85 .241 .284 .291 .224 1.211 .071 .141 .294 .271 454
Bartlett, Jason + Devil Rays SS 521 .254 .299 .350 .228 1.378 .086 .159 .315 .315 621
Betancourt, Yuniesky + Royals SS 584 .259 .267 .405 .247 1.563 .039 .110 .286 .385 620
Betemit, Wilson # Royals SS 315 .297 .361 .511 .260 1.720 .114 .235 .375 .448 1099
Bocock, Brian + Phillies SS 5 .000 .000 .000 .000 ----- .000 .600 .000 .000 1
Brignac, Reid * Devil Rays SS 326 .256 .317 .385 .236 1.506 .061 .236 .298 .356 650
Cabrera, Asdrubal # Indians SS 414 .276 .318 .346 .254 1.257 .060 .145 .314 .319 629
Cabrera, Everth # Padres SS 233 .208 .274 .278 .189 1.341 .082 .232 .270 .253 435
Cabrera, Orlando + Reds SS 532 .263 .284 .354 .244 1.346 .053 .100 .297 .329 551
Castro, Juan + Dodgers SS 4 .000 .000 .000 .000 ----- .250 .500 .250 .000 136
Castro, Juan + Phillies SS 135 .198 .238 .238 .185 1.200 .052 .170 .237 .222 285
Castro, Starlin + Cubs SS 502 .300 .346 .408 .277 1.360 .058 .141 .335 .376 775
Cedeno, Ronny + Pirates SS 495 .256 .315 .382 .242 1.492 .046 .214 .289 .362 588
Ciriaco, Pedro + Pirates SS 6 .500 1.000 1.000 .500 2.000 .000 .500 .500 1.000 3587
Cora, Alex * Rangers SS 7 .286 .286 .286 .286 1.000 .000 .000 .286 .286 463
Cora, Alex * Mets SS 185 .207 .226 .278 .189 1.343 .054 .086 .243 .254 396
Crosby, Bobby + Pirates SS 173 .224 .279 .295 .202 1.314 .092 .191 .295 .266 479
Crosby, Bobby + Diamondbacks SS 14 .167 .250 .333 .143 2.000 .071 .357 .214 .286 266
Cruz, Luis + Brewers SS 17 .235 .267 .353 .235 1.500 .000 .118 .235 .353 473
Desmond, Ian + Nationals SS 565 .269 .317 .392 .250 1.461 .050 .193 .299 .365 649
Diaz, Argenis + Pirates SS 36 .242 .348 .273 .222 1.125 .083 .278 .306 .250 468
Donald, Jason + Indians SS 321 .253 .320 .378 .234 1.493 .069 .218 .302 .349 635
Drew, Stephen * Diamondbacks SS 631 .278 .321 .458 .249 1.650 .098 .171 .347 .410 916
Escobar, Alcides + Brewers SS 548 .235 .264 .326 .217 1.387 .066 .128 .283 .301 524
Escobar, Yunel + Blue Jays SS 259 .275 .296 .356 .251 1.292 .073 .100 .324 .324 704
Escobar, Yunel + Braves SS 299 .238 .270 .284 .207 1.194 .124 .104 .331 .247 541
Espinosa, Danny # Nationals SS 112 .214 .239 .447 .196 2.091 .080 .268 .277 .411 673
Everett, Adam + Tigers SS 86 .185 .234 .247 .174 1.333 .047 .209 .221 .233 260
Furcal, Rafael # Dodgers SS 426 .300 .338 .460 .270 1.530 .094 .141 .364 .413 963
Gonzalez, Alex + Braves SS 289 .240 .276 .386 .221 1.609 .048 .183 .270 .356 586
Gonzalez, Alex + Blue Jays SS 348 .259 .274 .497 .244 1.918 .049 .187 .293 .468 776
Green, Nick + Blue Jays SS 14 .154 .200 .154 .143 1.000 .071 .214 .214 .143 198
Green, Nick + Dodgers SS 9 .125 .167 .125 .111 1.000 .000 .222 .111 .111 186
Greene, Tyler + Cardinals SS 122 .221 .266 .327 .189 1.478 .107 .197 .295 .279 624
Guzman, Cristian # Rangers SS 49 .152 .194 .174 .143 1.143 .061 .204 .204 .163 193
Guzman, Cristian # Nationals SS 343 .282 .331 .361 .262 1.278 .050 .155 .312 .335 664
Hardy, J.J. + Twins SS 372 .268 .299 .394 .245 1.473 .075 .145 .320 .360 686
Hernandez, Diory + Braves SS 9 .111 .000 .444 .111 4.000 .000 .444 .111 .444 263
Hernandez, Luis # Mets SS 47 .250 .257 .409 .234 1.636 .043 .149 .277 .383 687
Hicks, Brandon + Braves SS 6 .000 .000 .000 .000 ----- .167 .333 .167 .000 62
Hu, Chin-lung + Dodgers SS 25 .130 .158 .174 .120 1.333 .000 .200 .120 .160 129
Izturis, Cesar # Orioles SS 506 .230 .257 .268 .215 1.165 .049 .105 .265 .251 407
Janish, Paul + Reds SS 225 .260 .283 .385 .231 1.481 .098 .133 .329 .342 727
Jeter, Derek + Yankees SS 738 .270 .307 .370 .243 1.369 .085 .144 .328 .332 713
Kelly, Don * Tigers SS 250 .244 .259 .374 .232 1.534 .032 .168 .264 .356 563
Lopez, Felipe # Cardinals SS 422 .231 .272 .340 .206 1.471 .102 .182 .308 .303 579
Lopez, Felipe # Red Sox SS 16 .267 .300 .467 .250 1.750 .063 .250 .313 .438 862
Lowrie, Jed # Red Sox SS 197 .287 .292 .526 .249 1.837 .127 .127 .376 .457 1139
Lugo, Julio + Orioles SS 258 .249 .314 .282 .233 1.133 .058 .194 .291 .264 484
Luna, Hector + Marlins SS 30 .138 .133 .379 .133 2.750 .000 .433 .133 .367 245
Manzella, Tommy + Astros SS 277 .225 .302 .264 .209 1.172 .047 .256 .256 .245 377
Martinez, Ozzie + Marlins SS 47 .326 .378 .465 .298 1.429 .085 .128 .383 .426 1000
McCoy, Mike + Blue Jays SS 90 .195 .258 .244 .178 1.250 .089 .222 .267 .222 345
McDonald, John + Blue Jays SS 161 .250 .260 .454 .236 1.816 .037 .161 .273 .429 647
Morse, Mike + Nationals SS 293 .289 .330 .519 .263 1.792 .075 .218 .338 .471 1050
Murphy, Donnie + Marlins SS 46 .318 .500 .705 .304 2.214 .043 .413 .348 .674 1337
Navarro, Oswaldo + Astros SS 25 .050 .063 .050 .040 1.000 .200 .160 .240 .040 156
Navarro, Yamaico + Red Sox SS 46 .143 .222 .143 .130 1.000 .043 .370 .174 .130 137
Nelson, Chris + Rockies SS 26 .280 .333 .320 .269 1.143 .038 .154 .308 .308 533
Nunez, Eduardo + Yankees SS 53 .280 .277 .360 .264 1.286 .057 .038 .321 .340 667
Ojeda, Augie # Diamondbacks SS 89 .190 .205 .228 .169 1.200 .090 .090 .258 .202 311
Pena, Ramiro # Yankees SS 163 .227 .271 .247 .215 1.086 .037 .166 .252 .233 354
Pennington, Cliff # Athletics SS 564 .250 .296 .368 .225 1.472 .089 .170 .314 .332 650
Plouffe, Trevor + Twins SS 42 .146 .154 .317 .143 2.167 .000 .333 .143 .310 225
Ramirez, Alexei + White Sox SS 619 .282 .300 .431 .267 1.527 .044 .132 .310 .407 740
Ramirez, Hanley + Marlins SS 619 .300 .327 .475 .263 1.583 .103 .150 .367 .417 1042
Ransom, Cody + Phillies SS 45 .190 .207 .333 .178 1.750 .067 .244 .244 .311 460
Renteria, Edgar + Giants SS 265 .276 .323 .374 .253 1.358 .079 .162 .332 .343 696
Reyes, Jose # Mets SS 599 .282 .301 .428 .265 1.516 .052 .105 .317 .402 758
Rollins, Jimmy # Phillies SS 394 .243 .246 .374 .216 1.541 .102 .081 .317 .332 663
Romero, Niuman # Red Sox SS 4 .000 .000 .000 .000 ----- .000 .000 .000 .000 1
Romine, Andrew # Angels SS 11 .091 .143 .091 .091 1.000 .000 .364 .091 .091 47
Ryan, Brendan + Cardinals SS 477 .223 .253 .294 .205 1.316 .069 .126 .275 .270 436
Sanchez, Angel + Astros SS 263 .280 .341 .348 .266 1.243 .042 .171 .308 .331 614
Sanchez, Angel + Red Sox SS 3 .000 .000 .000 .000 ----- .000 .000 .000 .000 1
Santiago, Ramon # Tigers SS 359 .263 .308 .325 .234 1.238 .084 .156 .318 .290 638
Scutaro, Marco + Red Sox SS 691 .275 .295 .388 .252 1.408 .077 .103 .329 .355 707
Sutton, Drew # Reds SS 3 .667 1.000 1.667 .667 2.500 .000 .333 .667 1.667 12079
Sutton, Drew # Indians SS 39 .222 .304 .333 .205 1.500 .077 .308 .282 .308 522
Tejada, Ruben + Mets SS 249 .213 .250 .282 .185 1.326 .088 .153 .273 .245 464
Theriot, Ryan + Cubs SS 410 .284 .319 .327 .268 1.155 .046 .112 .315 .310 592
Theriot, Ryan + Dodgers SS 223 .242 .276 .283 .215 1.167 .099 .126 .314 .251 529
Tolleson, Steve + Athletics SS 53 .286 .333 .408 .264 1.429 .075 .170 .340 .377 769
Tulowitzki, Troy + Rockies SS 528 .315 .327 .568 .280 1.804 .091 .148 .371 .506 1243
Valaika, Chris + Reds SS 39 .263 .321 .368 .256 1.400 .026 .231 .282 .359 570
Valdez, Wilson + Phillies SS 356 .258 .287 .360 .242 1.395 .059 .121 .301 .337 601
Vizquel, Omar # White Sox SS 384 .276 .309 .331 .247 1.200 .089 .117 .336 .297 650
Wilson, Jack + Mariners SS 206 .249 .298 .316 .233 1.271 .034 .170 .267 .296 455
Wilson, Josh + Mariners SS 388 .227 .280 .294 .211 1.293 .036 .191 .247 .273 441
Zawadzki, Lance # Padres SS 40 .200 .250 .257 .175 1.286 .125 .175 .300 .225 420

Now you tell me where Janish ranks as a Starter among all SS in the Majors. Defend your boy as a starter. Go~

Quatitos
12-21-2010, 03:11 PM
Listen Dude, I don't have 20 of the 30 GM's cell numbers at my disposal but if I did you would probably be 99% with Janish not being a starter...

Lets go through the list.


Now you tell me where Janish ranks as a Starter among all SS in the Majors. Defend your boy as a starter. Go~

Why should I do your work for you? You prove that there are so many better options than Janish available for the Reds to upgrade to. Your the one trying to prove a point and trying to claim your OPINION is backed by a whole bunch of other people that are actually knowledgeable about the game. When asked for evidence to back up your claim you do not provide evidence that lends credibility to your claim. I'm not asking for you to get GM opinions, but at least do better than fantasy bloggers or a one sentence reference in a real article if you want your claims to be taken seriously.

Next you claim that 99% of GM's would think that Janish is not worthy of being a starter. I think that is what you meant but that sentence actually didn't make much sense. Did you mean 99% of 20 out of 30 GMs so 66% of GMs don't think Janish as a starter, or 66% wouldn't want Janish as their starter since they have something better so Janish is better than 33% of the other starting SS? Or did you think 99% believe Janish shouldn't be a starter on any team or 66% would think that?

Your basic point is valid, Janish is not the best SS available in the game currently and the Reds could probably attain a better SS for a price and make the team better. The other side of this point is that the difference between Janish and the better SS might not be worth the price and Janish is good enough to start the season off. I assume you would want the Reds to trade for Jose Reyes since I can't find a SS named Carlos Reyes. Do you think the Reds can honestly afford the price for Reyes with all of the in house raises that they have to pay and in the "opinion of many in and around Baseball" the reds are at their budget limit already :p:

Hondo
12-21-2010, 03:18 PM
Why should I do your work for you? You prove that there are so many better options than Janish available for the Reds to upgrade to. Your the one trying to prove a point and trying to claim your OPINION is backed by a whole bunch of other people that are actually knowledgeable about the game. When asked for evidence to back up your claim you do not provide evidence that lends credibility to your claim. I'm not asking for you to get GM opinions, but at least do better than fantasy bloggers or a one sentence reference in a real article if you want your claims to be taken seriously.

Next you claim that 99% of GM's would think that Janish is not worthy of being a starter. I think that is what you meant but that sentence actually didn't make much sense. Did you mean 99% of 20 out of 30 GMs so 66% of GMs don't think Janish as a starter, or 66% wouldn't want Janish as their starter since they have something better so Janish is better than 33% of the other starting SS? Or did you think 99% believe Janish shouldn't be a starter on any team or 66% would think that?

Your basic point is valid, Janish is not the best SS available in the game currently and the Reds could probably attain a better SS for a price and make the team better. The other side of this point is that the difference between Janish and the better SS might not be worth the price and Janish is good enough to start the season off. I assume you would want the Reds to trade for Jose Reyes since I can't find a SS named Carlos Reyes. Do you think the Reds can honestly afford the price for Reyes with all of the in house raises that they have to pay and in the "opinion of many in and around Baseball" the reds are at their budget limit already :p:

I was being sarcastic in implying that I "only" had 10 or so of the GM's Cell Numbers... Moving on...

Way to dodge the question.

I have stated my point several times and backed it up with info and refrences... Weak according to you.

I simply asked you to state the case for Janish being a Starter and what info and references say he is a Starter...

So here is your second chance.

Tell me and everyone why Paul Janish should be the Starting Short Stop.

Go~

OGB
12-21-2010, 03:55 PM
I'm not necessarily saying I agree, but I have yet to see someone make a decent argument against what Hondo is saying. He put up statistics and quotes from people that are paid to have opinions about baseball. You may consider them weak sources, but their job title means their opinion is more qualified than yours.

Quatitos
12-21-2010, 04:15 PM
I was being sarcastic in implying that I "only" had 10 or so of the GM's Cell Numbers... Moving on...

Way to dodge the question.

I have stated my point several times and backed it up with info and refrences... Weak according to you.

I simply asked you to state the case for Janish being a Starter and what info and references say he is a Starter...

So here is your second chance.

Tell me and everyone why Paul Janish should be the Starting Short Stop.

Go~

Okay, so don't prove your point then since you have yet to prove your point but I will do what you can't.

Janish in 2009:
.211 BA .296 OBP .305 SLG 60 OPS+
Janish in 2010:
.260 BA .338 OBP .385 SLG 96 OPS+
For reference, of the SS in all of MLB, Janish ranked 10th in OPS of players with a minimum of 200 PA.

Also looking at his minor league stats I think the Janish of 2010 is the kind of bat we can see from him next season. Even if you allow him some regression based on the fact that he will be getting double the PA's, you could still reasonably expect him to put up a .250/.320/.360 over the whole season. Put that into the 8th spot in the order along with his defense and you would be getting a league average overall player.

As I pointed out, there are better options at SS available, but they would most likely not fit into the Red's budget or require too many valuable prospects to get. Keeping Janish you get about a league average shortstop with good defense to support your pitching staff. The pitching staff has repeatedly made comments about the great infield defense so overlooking the defense he brings to the table overlooks something that makes him valuable. (Since we don't have to use real references here, I will just remember that I've seen this quote many times in pitchers interviews :p:)

Just a little off topic but I know you would like to see a trade for Jose Reyes, but there is a big unknown if you make a trade for Reyes in that you don't know if your getting the 09-10 Reyes who struggles with injuries or the 06-08 Reyes who was an all-star.

Don't get me wrong, if we could find a clear upgrade over Janish and the price was right I would be happy. But right now it seems like Janish is good enough with the other pieces the Reds have put together the past couple years and upgrading SS will probably be more expensive than it is worth.

Also is anyone else currently having troubles accessing the board?

Quatitos
12-21-2010, 04:19 PM
I'm not necessarily saying I agree, but I have yet to see someone make a decent argument against what Hondo is saying. He put up statistics and quotes from people that are paid to have opinions about baseball. You may consider them weak sources, but their job title means their opinion is more qualified than yours.

2 of his sources were from unpaid bloggers who are just as qualified to write that as you and I as far as I can tell. Of the other 2 sources, one was a 2 line fantasy breakdown and the other was a 1 line reference to the fact the Reds were in the market for a SS upgrade. Do those honestly sound like good sources for whether Janish has was it takes to be an everyday major league shortstop? As for the stats he posted, all he did was copy paste them and made no analysis.

757690
12-21-2010, 05:00 PM
Just for the record, if Janish can play the same defense he has played so far, and OPS just north of .650, he will be a league average SS.

I am not saying that he will do that, but I think that is definitely possible for him to do.

Janish is not the answer at SS, but I don't think he is a problem there either.

I think we have all been spoiled by Davey and Barry, and expect too much for the SS position.

SeeinRed
12-21-2010, 06:32 PM
I'm not sure why the Reds would pursue Webb, but I'm sure some would like to see him here. That said, according to Jerry Crasnick there is an unidentified NL Central team that has entered the discussion:

jcrasnick Jerry Crasnick
There's also an unidentified NL Central team that's trying to make a late run at Webb.


That is from his twitter account. Honestly, I doubt it is the Reds, but Walt is sneaky. I still don't think I would make the move if I'm the Reds though.

Hondo
12-21-2010, 10:01 PM
I'm not sure why the Reds would pursue Webb, but I'm sure some would like to see him here. That said, according to Jerry Crasnick there is an unidentified NL Central team that has entered the discussion:


That is from his twitter account. Honestly, I doubt it is the Reds, but Walt is sneaky. I still don't think I would make the move if I'm the Reds though.

Probably the Brewers and I hope they get him.

Hondo
12-21-2010, 10:04 PM
2 of his sources were from unpaid bloggers who are just as qualified to write that as you and I as far as I can tell. Of the other 2 sources, one was a 2 line fantasy breakdown and the other was a 1 line reference to the fact the Reds were in the market for a SS upgrade. Do those honestly sound like good sources for whether Janish has was it takes to be an everyday major league shortstop? As for the stats he posted, all he did was copy paste them and made no analysis.

Forget the sources. They are all saying the same thing GM's & Scouts are saying... I don't have anyone but Steve Phillips saying it on Fanhouse that is/used to be a GM...

THis is not the 1980's anymore where all glove, no hit SS are the norm...

The dude is a backup...

Let me ask you this.

Name the Reds 3 BIGGEST WEAKNESS's

#1
#2
#3

Quatitos
12-21-2010, 10:38 PM
Forget the sources. That was not a response to you, it was a response to OGB. You might want to actually read my response to you since your asked me to do so :p:. Talking to myself for no reason just isn't any fun.

fewfirstchoice
12-21-2010, 10:50 PM
#1 weakness LF if Gomes is the starter
#2 is SS if Janish is the starter
#3 probably need another arm for the pen a lefty

But #1 and 2 are really important. Walt needs to improve these areas for the Reds to repeat.

757690
12-22-2010, 05:26 AM
Forget the sources. They are all saying the same thing GM's & Scouts are saying... I don't have anyone but Steve Phillips saying it on Fanhouse that is/used to be a GM...

THis is not the 1980's anymore where all glove, no hit SS are the norm...

The dude is a backup...

Let me ask you this.

Name the Reds 3 BIGGEST WEAKNESS's

#1
#2
#3

Just for the record, 4 out of the 8 playoff teams last season had all glove, no hit SS, and none of them were better than what is expected ouf Janish, even from his biggest critics.

malcontent
12-22-2010, 05:05 PM
Fred Lewis.

If the Reds stay with Gomes, we'll see enough of Janish in the 2-hole to last a life-time.

Quatitos
12-22-2010, 05:17 PM
Fred Lewis.

If the Reds stay with Gomes, we'll see enough of Janish in the 2-hole to last a life-time.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2010/12/indians-tigers-mets-others-interested-in-lewis.html

If he can be had for the right price he would definately make a good platoon with Gomes to start the season and backup to Stubbs if he can play CF

Career splits:

I Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+
vs RHP as LHB 400 1216 1080 302 72 17 23 102 47 14 117 264 .280 .354 .442 .796 477 19 11 2 6 7 12 .349 108
vs LHP as LHB 164 312 279 68 12 4 1 15 4 4 27 83 .244 .324 .326 .650 91 3 6 0 0 0 3 .344 71
vs LH Starter 104 57 305 269 36 71 12 6 2 21 5 4 31 78 .264 .347 .375 .722 101 3 3 2 0 1 2 .365 89
vs RH Starter 332 261 1223 1090 203 299 72 15 22 96 46 14 113 269 .274 .348 .428 .777 467 19 14 0 6 6 13 .344 102

2010 splits:

Split G GS PA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO BA OBP SLG OPS TB GDP HBP SH SF IBB ROE BAbip tOPS+ sOPS+
vs RHP as LHB 103 378 335 89 26 4 8 29 16 4 32 78 .266 .337 .439 .776 147 6 6 1 4 1 2 .320 108 106
vs LHP as LHB 47 102 93 23 5 1 0 7 1 2 6 26 .247 .314 .323 .636 30 3 3 0 0 0 0 .343 73 88
vs LH Starter 23 19 95 84 9 23 4 1 0 7 0 1 8 21 .274 .351 .345 .696 29 3 2 1 0 0 0 .365 89 94
vs RH Starter 87 83 385 344 61 89 27 4 8 29 17 5 30 83 .259 .327 .430 .758 148 6 7 0 4 1 2 .315 102 107


If he could be had for the right price he would definately be a good fit. An outfield of Gomes, Stubbs, Bruce, Heisey, and Fred Lewis would be something I'd be completely fine with going into the season.

Vottomatic
12-22-2010, 05:25 PM
Probably the Brewers and I hope they get him.

Call those 20 GM's cell phone numbers you have and ask them who is trying to get him.

Vottomatic
12-22-2010, 05:26 PM
Just for the record, 4 out of the 8 playoff teams last season had all glove, no hit SS, and none of them were better than what is expected ouf Janish, even from his biggest critics.

Good point.

jwertz
12-22-2010, 09:00 PM
Call me crazy, but I like Nolan Reimold. Has lots of upside. I like him off the bench now, but I could see him producing more consistantly than Gomes. And he is cheap. That would be my realistic option.

Hondo
12-22-2010, 09:28 PM
Just for the record, 4 out of the 8 playoff teams last season had all glove, no hit SS, and none of them were better than what is expected ouf Janish, even from his biggest critics.

So 50% of them had an offensive SS

What about the Giants @ Rangers?

Andrus? Is he no hit, all glove in your opinion? .265-0-35 .342 .301 .643 (32 steals) 88 runs 156 hits

Uribe? Is he no hit, all glove in your opnion? .248-24-85 .310 .440 .749

757690
12-23-2010, 02:22 AM
So 50% of them had an offensive SS

What about the Giants @ Rangers?

Andrus? Is he no hit, all glove in your opinion? .265-0-35 .342 .301 .643 (32 steals) 88 runs 156 hits

Uribe? Is he no hit, all glove in your opnion? .248-24-85 .310 .440 .749

Your argument was that the Reds needed a SS who could hit in order to contend. I simply pointed out that based on last year's playoff teams, that might not be true.

And for the record, anyone with a .650 or lower OPS is an all glove, no hit SS.

UPRedsFan
12-23-2010, 09:40 AM
Success for the Reds as a small market team is all about pitching and defense. Janish is a centerpiece for the defense. I love his defense. With Janish, Phillips and Stubbs up the middle the Reds have the best defense in baseball at those 3 critical positions. Can anyone name a team that's better? This helps the pitching tremendously. I like Janish in the 8 spot starting 150 games this year. He'll hit .240 - .250 and I'm fine with that. Remember they led the league in runs scored last year and Bruce/Stubbs didn't come around until the 2nd half.

But left field needs to be solved! Can't put up with Gomes inconsistency there. That's the biggest weakness on the team. Target a leadoff hitter. Phillips, Votto, Rolen, Bruce and Stubbs can continue to be the run producers.

Hondo
12-23-2010, 02:29 PM
Your argument was that the Reds needed a SS who could hit in order to contend. I simply pointed out that based on last year's playoff teams, that might not be true.

And for the record, anyone with a .650 or lower OPS is an all glove, no hit SS.

NO My point is this

The Reds have 2 weakness in positions:

SS
LF

One of those positions needs to be a lead off hitter with a high OBP

I just want the Reds to make an improvement... < MY POINT