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View Full Version : Joe Lemire's SI Power Rankings --> Reds at #4



mam24rice
12-21-2010, 08:30 AM
What does everyone think of Joe Lemire's early offseason Power Rankings? He has the Reds as the fourth best team in baseball--trailing only the Red Sox, Phillies and Giants.

While I am highly encouraged and enthusiastic about the future of this team, I'm not so sure they're the fourth best team in baseball. I'd put them in the 9-13 range prior to the season, with the potential to jump into this upper echelon if they continue to gel and improve.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/joe_lemire/12/16/offseason.power.rankings/index.html?eref=sihp

DocRed
12-21-2010, 10:06 AM
Good to see but I don't see us above the Yankees, Rangers, Twins and Braves if we stand pat. I'm not even sure we are better than the White Sox, Rays, and Rockies for that matter.

Captain13
12-21-2010, 12:33 PM
I think Joe Lemire sees the same thing the Reds front office sees...improvement by standing pat. The FO is counting on Bruce, Stubbs, Heisey and Janish to each improve with age/experience. The pitching staff should be improved over last season just by having Chapman and Volquez both available and healthy for entire season. Although, I would like to see an upgrade in LF or at SS, I believe this team can win more games in 2011 than it did in 2010.

lonewolf371
12-21-2010, 12:36 PM
I don't see a problem with it. Young players usually get better, and the Reds have a lot of young players. One of Bruce or Stubbs could very well have a breakout year where they play great for a whole season. Pitching will be in better shape with a healthy Volquez and a plethora of good guys to pick from. Barring injuries, defense should be just as good.

I think a lot of us Reds fans are discounting the upside a lot of our players have going into next season. Yeah, the other teams in the division might shape up and make the playoffs and leave the Reds at home, but on the other hand I still think #4 is well within this team's upside for 2011.

fewfirstchoice
12-21-2010, 08:22 PM
If Walts gets oof his can and makes a move or 2 the Reds could be #1. But that involves Walt getting off his arse and doing something. Not going to happen.

Hondo
12-21-2010, 09:09 PM
If Walts gets oof his can and makes a move or 2 the Reds could be #1. But that involves Walt getting off his arse and doing something. Not going to happen.

Glad someone else agrees...

I would have rather the Reds NOT resigned Hernadez for 3 Million and Cairo for 1 Million, took that 4 Million and Invested in Greinke for the Rotation or Reyes for SS, and then took the rest of the winter trying to find a taker for Cordero's contract (Examples: White Sox, Angels, Tigers all need Closers) then bargain shopped for a Back up infielder to take Cairo's spot or used Cozart as the Bench player for league minimum, and also bargain shopped for a catcher to back up Hanigan.

fewfirstchoice
12-21-2010, 09:32 PM
The resigning of Hernadez and especially Cairo was useless. I wish the Reds would learn to use their money in a smart way and not throw 5 million away on garbage.

gedred69
12-21-2010, 10:58 PM
I don't understand calling Hernandez "garbage". When his #'s and Hanigan's are combined, it added up to a top 3 or 4 in the league from that catching position. .297 BA, obp .364, I'd call that good for a 1/2 time catcher.

DirtyBaker
12-22-2010, 03:19 PM
I don't understand calling Hernandez "garbage". When his #'s and Hanigan's are combined, it added up to a top 3 or 4 in the league from that catching position. .297 BA, obp .364, I'd call that good for a 1/2 time catcher.

Same here. Cairo was especially cheap and played well in his role. We also need two good catchers. Sure, we could run Hanigan out there for 110 games a year, but what about the other 52? What if he gets hurt? Why spend the money on another starting pitcher when we have 6 who are very good?

Captain13
12-22-2010, 03:30 PM
Glad someone else agrees...

I would have rather the Reds NOT resigned Hernadez for 3 Million and Cairo for 1 Million, took that 4 Million and Invested in Greinke for the Rotation or Reyes for SS, and then took the rest of the winter trying to find a taker for Cordero's contract (Examples: White Sox, Angels, Tigers all need Closers) then bargain shopped for a Back up infielder to take Cairo's spot or used Cozart as the Bench player for league minimum, and also bargain shopped for a catcher to back up Hanigan.

In what world does $4mil even get us half-way to Greinke or Reyes? I'd like to have Zack in our rotation too, but he is out of the Reds budget.

Quatitos
12-22-2010, 04:09 PM
Glad someone else agrees...

I would have rather the Reds NOT resigned Hernadez for 3 Million and Cairo for 1 Million, took that 4 Million and Invested in Greinke for the Rotation or Reyes for SS, and then took the rest of the winter trying to find a taker for Cordero's contract (Examples: White Sox, Angels, Tigers all need Closers) then bargain shopped for a Back up infielder to take Cairo's spot or used Cozart as the Bench player for league minimum, and also bargain shopped for a catcher to back up Hanigan.
So you want to break up one of the best catching tandems in the league which is already signed for ridiculously cheap? Also retaining Hernandez gives you a spanish speaking catcher in case Chapman cracks the starting rotation this season as well as someone who can speak with Cueto and Volquez, although their english is better. Also note that the replacement for Hernandez would still cost atleast half a mil.

As for Cairo, Not signing him would only net you a half mil per season since the replacement for him will cost you at least half a mil if not more if you want any sort of proven player. So with simple addition and subtraction the money freed up by Walt not making these moves is only $3 mil at the max.

You say Walt is sitting on his butt not doing anything. But he has made moves to keep around the players that contributed to this teams success last year (Hernandez, Cairo, Bruce extension, Arroyo extension) and is still working on contracts to keep good pieces here (Cueto and Votto LTC, Rhodes). But I guess something like a Rhodes contract (9th best ERA of relievers over the past 2 season with min 90 innings) or signing Votto (NL MPV, but those are easy to replace :-P) wouldn't be a big signing.

Honestly you have it in your head that you want a big deal or free agent signing to show up on the front page of ESPN or something, and well your just not going to see it. So unless you want to be disappointed all off season you might want to reevaluate what you consider is Walt not doing any work and actually enjoy the fact that he is putting together a team that will be able to compete for years to come.


In what world does $4mil even get us half-way to Greinke or Reyes? I'd like to have Zack in our rotation too, but he is out of the Reds budget.Agreed, the Brewers added about $12-$14 million in payroll for Greinke. As for Reyes I doubt the motivation for moving him would be to free up payroll so much as acquiring prospects, but you would pay dearly in prospects to get the Mets to cover all but $3 million of Reyes' contract.

NorrisHopper30
12-22-2010, 06:37 PM
Anyone who hates on Hernandez is a nut.

mattfeet
12-22-2010, 08:05 PM
So you want to break up one of the best catching tandems in the league which is already signed for ridiculously cheap? Also retaining Hernandez gives you a spanish speaking catcher in case Chapman cracks the starting rotation this season as well as someone who can speak with Cueto and Volquez, although their english is better. Also note that the replacement for Hernandez would still cost atleast half a mil.

As for Cairo, Not signing him would only net you a half mil per season since the replacement for him will cost you at least half a mil if not more if you want any sort of proven player. So with simple addition and subtraction the money freed up by Walt not making these moves is only $3 mil at the max.

You say Walt is sitting on his butt not doing anything. But he has made moves to keep around the players that contributed to this teams success last year (Hernandez, Cairo, Bruce extension, Arroyo extension) and is still working on contracts to keep good pieces here (Cueto and Votto LTC, Rhodes). But I guess something like a Rhodes contract (9th best ERA of relievers over the past 2 season with min 90 innings) or signing Votto (NL MPV, but those are easy to replace :-P) wouldn't be a big signing.

Honestly you have it in your head that you want a big deal or free agent signing to show up on the front page of ESPN or something, and well your just not going to see it. So unless you want to be disappointed all off season you might want to reevaluate what you consider is Walt not doing any work and actually enjoy the fact that he is putting together a team that will be able to compete for years to come.

Agreed, the Brewers added about $12-$14 million in payroll for Greinke. As for Reyes I doubt the motivation for moving him would be to free up payroll so much as acquiring prospects, but you would pay dearly in prospects to get the Mets to cover all but $3 million of Reyes' contract.
Good post. :beerme:

Hondo
12-22-2010, 09:34 PM
So you want to break up one of the best catching tandems in the league which is already signed for ridiculously cheap? Also retaining Hernandez gives you a spanish speaking catcher in case Chapman cracks the starting rotation this season as well as someone who can speak with Cueto and Volquez, although their english is better. Also note that the replacement for Hernandez would still cost atleast half a mil.

As for Cairo, Not signing him would only net you a half mil per season since the replacement for him will cost you at least half a mil if not more if you want any sort of proven player. So with simple addition and subtraction the money freed up by Walt not making these moves is only $3 mil at the max.

You say Walt is sitting on his butt not doing anything. But he has made moves to keep around the players that contributed to this teams success last year (Hernandez, Cairo, Bruce extension, Arroyo extension) and is still working on contracts to keep good pieces here (Cueto and Votto LTC, Rhodes). But I guess something like a Rhodes contract (9th best ERA of relievers over the past 2 season with min 90 innings) or signing Votto (NL MPV, but those are easy to replace :-P) wouldn't be a big signing.

Honestly you have it in your head that you want a big deal or free agent signing to show up on the front page of ESPN or something, and well your just not going to see it. So unless you want to be disappointed all off season you might want to reevaluate what you consider is Walt not doing any work and actually enjoy the fact that he is putting together a team that will be able to compete for years to come.

Agreed, the Brewers added about $12-$14 million in payroll for Greinke. As for Reyes I doubt the motivation for moving him would be to free up payroll so much as acquiring prospects, but you would pay dearly in prospects to get the Mets to cover all but $3 million of Reyes' contract.

Lets get real.

Votto, Cueto, Bruce, are all under contract for a few more seasons.

This is about "improving" the team.

On the Grienke trade... the Royals sent 2 Million with Grienke and the Brewers in turn sold a ton of tickets...

You would rather have Cairo and Hernadez then Grienke and 2 Million?

Cool.

lonewolf371
12-23-2010, 12:20 AM
Lets get real.

Votto, Cueto, Bruce, are all under contract for a few more seasons.

This is about "improving" the team.

On the Grienke trade... the Royals sent 2 Million with Grienke and the Brewers in turn sold a ton of tickets...

You would rather have Cairo and Hernadez then Grienke and 2 Million?

Cool.
I'd rather have Cairo, Hernandez, Mes, and Cozart than Greinke and $2 million.

Hondo
12-23-2010, 01:35 PM
I'd rather have Cairo, Hernandez, Mes, and Cozart than Greinke and $2 million.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5947435

QUOTE

MILWAUKEE -- Zack Greinke already is paying off for the Milwaukee Brewers.

Team officials say they've added more than 1,500 new season-ticket holders since Sunday's trade with the Kansas City Royals, more than tripling the 400 new account holders the team had added in the first few months of the offseason.

Rick Schlesinger, the Brewers' executive vice president of business operations, says response from fans has exceeded "even our most optimistic expectations." He says the trade also has helped the team's sponsorship and retail sales.

QUOTE

There is some extra Income from Greinke...

I am also with you and I would rather see Cozart at SS then Janish and Mesaraco Catching than re signing Herandez although I think while Cozart is ready for the gig, I think Mes needs a full Season at AAA...

But the Reds good have bargain shopped for a Catcher to platoon with Hanigan rather than spend 3 Million on Hernadez...

Caveman Techie
12-23-2010, 01:49 PM
You would rather have Cairo and Hernadez then Grienke and 2 Million?

Cool.

Yes, lets "get real". The money for Cairo and Hernandez was no where near close enough for Grienke. So yes I would rather have Cairo, Hernandez, Stubbs, Leake/Wood(it'd take one of em), and Heisey instead of Grienke and 2 million.

Hondo
12-23-2010, 01:57 PM
Yes, lets "get real". The money for Cairo and Hernandez was no where near close enough for Grienke. So yes I would rather have Cairo, Hernandez, Stubbs, Leake/Wood(it'd take one of em), and Heisey instead of Grienke and 2 million.

Did you miss the SPIKE in Milwaukee's Season ticket sales and Revenue from other sales?

Also the Reds can move Cordero's contract to some team in need of a Closer, even if they have to send 2-3 Million.

9 Million (at least) from Cordero
3 Milllion from Hernadez
1 Million from Cairo

13 Million + Ticket Sales/Revenue - Hernadez replacement (500,000)

Caveman Techie
12-23-2010, 02:17 PM
But you are just glossing over the fact that we still would of had to of sent other players to KC to get Grienke, not just money so how much money would it take to replace them. And again, who would trade for Cordero? No one wants an older, expensive closer who can't get three consecutive outs.

Hondo
12-23-2010, 02:32 PM
But you are just glossing over the fact that we still would of had to of sent other players to KC to get Grienke, not just money so how much money would it take to replace them. And again, who would trade for Cordero? No one wants an older, expensive closer who can't get three consecutive outs.

Minor league players and a SS & True Center Fielder....

Hell, you all say Janish is so great, maybe the Royals would have preffered Janish.

I think Heisey, Volquez, Janish, Joseph, and Bailey would have got it done.

Nathan
12-23-2010, 11:25 PM
Lets get real.

Votto, Cueto, Bruce, are all under contract for a few more seasons.

This is about "improving" the team.

On the Grienke trade... the Royals sent 2 Million with Grienke and the Brewers in turn sold a ton of tickets...

You would rather have Cairo and Hernadez then Grienke and 2 Million?

Cool.

The $$ was sent to offset the buyout (that everyone assumes will happen) of Yunisky Betancourt's contract (the other player sent to Milwaukee).

lonewolf371
12-24-2010, 10:57 AM
Minor league players and a SS & True Center Fielder....

Hell, you all say Janish is so great, maybe the Royals would have preffered Janish.

I think Heisey, Volquez, Janish, Joseph, and Bailey would have got it done.
Er, no. Did you read the reports on what the Royals wanted?

Hondo
12-24-2010, 12:54 PM
Er, no. Did you read the reports on what the Royals wanted?

Yes. They really wanted a Catcher and a Centerfielder. Also Young Pitching.

Hondo
12-24-2010, 12:54 PM
The $$ was sent to offset the buyout (that everyone assumes will happen) of Yunisky Betancourt's contract (the other player sent to Milwaukee).

Yeah I ended up reading that. Point Taken.

lonewolf371
12-24-2010, 01:01 PM
Yes. They really wanted a Catcher and a Centerfielder. Also Young Pitching.
Yeah, I don't think your deal had a catcher or a center fielder. Unless you weakly count Heisey. In any case, they were looking for more than Janish and Heisey. Even now Escobar and Cain look like they could be better major league players than those two.

And they wouldn't want Joseph. They have LHP bleeding out their ears. Really, the only guy from that deal they might really want would be Bailey. I'm guessing they would've wanted one of our catching prospects and Cozart on top of that to deal Greinke.

Hondo
12-24-2010, 01:53 PM
Yeah, I don't think your deal had a catcher or a center fielder. Unless you weakly count Heisey. In any case, they were looking for more than Janish and Heisey. Even now Escobar and Cain look like they could be better major league players than those two.

And they wouldn't want Joseph. They have LHP bleeding out their ears. Really, the only guy from that deal they might really want would be Bailey. I'm guessing they would've wanted one of our catching prospects and Cozart on top of that to deal Greinke.

I would have Loved the deal then. Cozart, Bailey, Heisey, Mesaraco, Janish, and Joseph... Sign me up...

But too late. Greinke's a Brewer.

LexRedsFan
12-25-2010, 11:24 PM
I wouldn't rank the Reds that high because of my concern with offense from the C, SS, & LF spots. I'd have us in the 7-11 range...but I'll still take it. Good to see our boys getting some respect early.

lonewolf371
12-26-2010, 10:45 AM
I would have Loved the deal then. Cozart, Bailey, Heisey, Mesaraco, Janish, and Joseph... Sign me up...

But too late. Greinke's a Brewer.
Trade the future to win now? Doesn't work if you're small market... That's too much for me. Not my kind of trade. Especially when you're only going to control Greinke for two years.

UPRedsFan
12-26-2010, 11:24 AM
Agreed. Let's stick with the core and the depth of talent and see where it takes us. Don't trade half of it away for one pitcher who may or may not return to his Cy Young year performance.

Depth of pitching and defense is the key to this team.