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fewfirstchoice
12-23-2010, 03:54 AM
These are the 2 moves I believe Walt ends up making this off season. I think they would be good moves not great but good. They are good leaders who have been there before. Solid moves i think.

Pony Boy
12-23-2010, 11:46 AM
Please no Renteria. How is that an upgrade over Janish? Renteria hasnt hit for anything since 2007 and his defense is a huge step down from Janish.

Captain13
12-23-2010, 12:35 PM
I like Pods because he hits lefty and could platoon with Gomes or Heisey, but please don't play him every day.

Hondo
12-23-2010, 02:19 PM
Wow, these are the additions people are now clamoring for...

Info: Brewers sold another 1500 Season Ticket sales the day after the Greinke Trade, there was the revenue the Reds needed...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5947435

QUOTE

MILWAUKEE -- Zack Greinke already is paying off for the Milwaukee Brewers.

Team officials say they've added more than 1,500 new season-ticket holders since Sunday's trade with the Kansas City Royals, more than tripling the 400 new account holders the team had added in the first few months of the offseason.

Rick Schlesinger, the Brewers' executive vice president of business operations, says response from fans has exceeded "even our most optimistic expectations." He says the trade also has helped the team's sponsorship and retail sales.

QUOTE

brm7675
12-23-2010, 03:22 PM
Just say no to both, neither improve our team and in fact actually take us down a step or two.

brm7675
12-23-2010, 03:23 PM
Wow, these are the additions people are now clamoring for...

Info: Brewers sold another 1500 Season Ticket sales the day after the Greinke Trade, there was the revenue the Reds needed...

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=5947435

QUOTE

MILWAUKEE -- Zack Greinke already is paying off for the Milwaukee Brewers.

Team officials say they've added more than 1,500 new season-ticket holders since Sunday's trade with the Kansas City Royals, more than tripling the 400 new account holders the team had added in the first few months of the offseason.

Rick Schlesinger, the Brewers' executive vice president of business operations, says response from fans has exceeded "even our most optimistic expectations." He says the trade also has helped the team's sponsorship and retail sales.

QUOTE

And when they trade off prince and others beceause they can't meet their salary demands watch their attendance drop.

Hondo
12-23-2010, 03:27 PM
And when they trade off prince and others beceause they can't meet their salary demands watch their attendance drop.

Not the point. Everyone said the Reds couldnt raise the payroll. The revenue would have helped counter the added Salary...

Oh well, pointless anyway... Greinke is a Brewer and pitching in Cincy Opening Day anyway.

brm7675
12-23-2010, 04:44 PM
Not the point. Everyone said the Reds couldnt raise the payroll. The revenue would have helped counter the added Salary...

Oh well, pointless anyway... Greinke is a Brewer and pitching in Cincy Opening Day anyway.

not that much, and you need to add what monies you have to posititions you really have need for. Adding Greinke would have been a luxury, not filling a need.

Jack Burton
12-23-2010, 04:45 PM
Janish > Edgar Low-Renteria

Hondo
12-23-2010, 04:46 PM
not that much, and you need to add what monies you have to posititions you really have need for. Adding Greinke would have been a luxury, not filling a need.

Not that Much? Add up 1500 New Season ticket sales, and thats quite a little cash infusion...

You will be sorry Opening Day, Mark this Post.

brm7675
12-23-2010, 04:53 PM
Not that Much? Add up 1500 New Season ticket sales, and thats quite a little cash infusion...

You will be sorry Opening Day, Mark this Post.

It depends on where those ST seats are. And again, adding him doesn't make our overall team that much better. He would only contribute to what like 30 games? It is NOT a position of weakness on this team and would stunt the growth probably of either Leake/Wood or Bailey. Of those 3, I believe both Leake and Wood have the good chance of being as good as Grienke if not better. You have glaring issues at LF that needs to be addressed and can and will have greater impact on how this team does. Sorry but Walt was smart, let the Brewers have him, when they have not hitters to score runs he will be back in teh same position he was with the Royals and unhappy again.

I will take our OD pitcher (probably Bronson) over Grienke this coming season in a heart beat.

Hondo
12-23-2010, 05:08 PM
It depends on where those ST seats are. And again, adding him doesn't make our overall team that much better. He would only contribute to what like 30 games? It is NOT a position of weakness on this team and would stunt the growth probably of either Leake/Wood or Bailey. Of those 3, I believe both Leake and Wood have the good chance of being as good as Grienke if not better. You have glaring issues at LF that needs to be addressed and can and will have greater impact on how this team does. Sorry but Walt was smart, let the Brewers have him, when they have not hitters to score runs he will be back in teh same position he was with the Royals and unhappy again.

I will take our OD pitcher (probably Bronson) over Grienke this coming season in a heart beat.

They have a window of opportunity to Win, and they have 5 players with 20 Homers and 80 RBI last year on the roster...

I think they are the favorites to win the Central.

Hart
Weeks
Braun
Fielder
McGahee
Gomez
Bentancourt
Lucroy

That Lineup will be Lethal!

Going with the pitching staff, Look out...

brm7675
12-23-2010, 05:28 PM
They have a window of opportunity to Win, and they have 5 players with 20 Homers and 80 RBI last year on the roster...

I think they are the favorites to win the Central.

Hart
Weeks
Braun
Fielder
McGahee
Gomez
Bentancourt
Lucroy

That Lineup will be Lethal!

Going with the pitching staff, Look out...

please I see them maybe 3rd, but more like 4th. i see it being us the cards and houston who will be the surprise team this year. The Brewers have 2 good pitchers on their entire staff and 2 very good hitters. plus they will be losing some of that talent come the trading deadline...

Hondo
12-23-2010, 06:39 PM
please I see them maybe 3rd, but more like 4th. i see it being us the cards and houston who will be the surprise team this year. The Brewers have 2 good pitchers on their entire staff and 2 very good hitters. plus they will be losing some of that talent come the trading deadline...

You are living in La La land... That Lineup is probably better than the reds 1-8

Brisco
12-23-2010, 07:26 PM
Not that Much? Add up 1500 New Season ticket sales, and thats quite a little cash infusion...

You will be sorry Opening Day, Mark this Post.

Please see my response in the Walt horse-trader thread. The bottom line is that this would not have happened for the Reds.

Hondo
12-23-2010, 07:36 PM
Please see my response in the Walt horse-trader thread. The bottom line is that this would not have happened for the Reds.

I already replied to it, and it was a glass half empty response.

Thanks for the contribution.

brm7675
12-23-2010, 07:48 PM
You are living in La La land... That Lineup is probably better than the reds 1-8

What did that lineup do for them last year? Plus again some of those pieces will be traded before the trading deadline, the Brewers KNOW they can't keep all those pieces so they are going to move them when the can get the most and come trading deadline and the yankees or angels and such need another bat....HELLO PRINCE...

Nathan
12-23-2010, 08:09 PM
What did that lineup do for them last year? Plus again some of those pieces will be traded before the trading deadline, the Brewers KNOW they can't keep all those pieces so they are going to move them when the can get the most and come trading deadline and the yankees or angels and such need another bat....HELLO PRINCE...

Their offence wasn't the problem last year.. It was their pitching. I'd say the adequately fixed that problem. The Brewers are the main team I'm worried about in the Central. Even more so than the Cards.

brm7675
12-23-2010, 08:15 PM
Their offence wasn't the problem last year.. It was their pitching. I'd say the adequately fixed that problem. The Brewers are the main team I'm worried about in the Central. Even more so than the Cards.

They add to pitchers and they "fixed" their problem? Last time i checked the two guys they add were not Cliff Lee and Roy Halliday or such. Their pitching issues go fare beyond just adding two and solving their problems. Also again, all that hitting talent won't be there all season long, their budget won't allow them to keep them and they are not going to lose them for "draft picks'.

Hondo
12-23-2010, 08:50 PM
They add to pitchers and they "fixed" their problem? Last time i checked the two guys they add were not Cliff Lee and Roy Halliday or such. Their pitching issues go fare beyond just adding two and solving their problems. Also again, all that hitting talent won't be there all season long, their budget won't allow them to keep them and they are not going to lose them for "draft picks'.

Go watch Waynes World... "Live in the NOW"

brm7675
12-23-2010, 08:59 PM
Go watch Waynes World... "Live in the NOW"

The "NOW" is that the Brewers had a horrible pitching staff last year and adding 2 pitchers ins't going to improve it that much overall. The 'NOW' is also the fact that they don't have the budget to keep all those stars, so it's either lose them for picks or try and get some young proven talent in return. Which do you think they will do?

757690
12-23-2010, 10:21 PM
Pod would be ok as a platoon partner with Gomes and Renteria would be ok as a backup for Janish. But I think both want to play everyday. If they could be had on one year deals that total less than $4M, I wouldn't be too upset.

757690
12-23-2010, 10:28 PM
Not that Much? Add up 1500 New Season ticket sales, and thats quite a little cash infusion...

You will be sorry Opening Day, Mark this Post.

It was 1100 more new season tickets than they averaged at this point last year.

1100 X 81 games = 89,100

89,100 X $25 a ticket = $2,227,500

That is a nice little cash infusion. Unfortunately, not enough to cover the $9.5M difference between what the Reds reportedly have to spend ($4M) and what Greinke costs in 2011 ($13.5).

757690
12-23-2010, 10:32 PM
They have a window of opportunity to Win, and they have 5 players with 20 Homers and 80 RBI last year on the roster...

I think they are the favorites to win the Central.

Hart
Weeks
Braun
Fielder
McGahee
Gomez
Bentancourt
Lucroy

That Lineup will be Lethal!

Going with the pitching staff, Look out...

The Brewers biggest problem last season was run prevention. That was due to poor pitching and poor defense. They improved their pitching greatly with Greinke and Marcum. But they also weakened an already poor defense to do so. Bentencourt is a terrible, well below average defensive SS, while Escobar was above average.

The Brewers got better, but not by much.

Nathan
12-23-2010, 10:42 PM
They add to pitchers and they "fixed" their problem?

Well enough. At least they addressed their problems and got better than they were at the end of 2010.


Also again, all that hitting talent won't be there all season long,
their budget won't allow them to keep them and they are not going to lose them for "draft picks'.

How do you know this? They are trying to go all in this year anyhow. In order to get rid of the high contract and get cheaper, you will have to trade for prospects, which are a crapshoot anyhow. How do you know they wouldn't rather try for drafting players in 2012 than take the best offer at the deadline?

If the Brewers are still in it at the trade deadline (which I believe they will), than, I don't see them getting rid of anyone. They want this thing this badly in 2011.

Now, they main thing I think that will slow them down is if they get hurt, they don't really have anything left in the minors after trading to get their two pitchers. Basically, I think it's either 2011 or a long, long time before the Brewers do anything.

Quatitos
12-24-2010, 12:20 AM
The Brewers biggest problem last season was run prevention. That was due to poor pitching and poor defense. They improved their pitching greatly with Greinke and Marcum. But they also weakened an already poor defense to do so. Bentencourt is a terrible, well below average defensive SS, while Escobar was above average.

The Brewers got better, but not by much.

Agreed, and they still haven't addressed their need in the bullpen. Last season they had the fifth worst bullpen ERA, with the Royals 6th worst. They might have a couple new starters, but they could see a repeat of Greinke's W-L record if they don't address their bullpen as well.

And for the defense, well the Brewers probably traded one of their best defenders away in Escobar, and got one of the Royals worst defender in Betancourt (I bet you Greinke was kind of annoyed that he was included in the trade, he has probably personally cost him a game or two :)). So this weakens the gains the Brewers made with respect to their starting pitching staff.

Quatitos
12-24-2010, 12:38 AM
Back to what this topic is about, I would prefer Fred Lewis over a guy like Podsednik based on his age and Fred Lewis brings more to the table in terms of defense.

As for Retneria, I honestly don't see him coming to the Reds at all.

jwertz
12-24-2010, 08:45 AM
Back to what this topic is about, I would prefer Fred Lewis over a guy like Podsednik based on his age and Fred Lewis brings more to the table in terms of defense.

As for Retneria, I honestly don't see him coming to the Reds at all.

I agree 100%. I wouldn't want Renteria for free, and Pods plays below average defense on a good day. I would rather have Gomes giving max effort out in left all season than platoon him with Podsednik. At the right price I am more than ok with Fred Lewis in a platoon with Gomes.

brm7675
12-24-2010, 11:59 AM
Pod would be ok as a platoon partner with Gomes and Renteria would be ok as a backup for Janish. But I think both want to play everyday. If they could be had on one year deals that total less than $4M, I wouldn't be too upset.

Don't you think Heisey could match or even surpass anything Pod could bring at this point in this game and be alot cheaper?

brm7675
12-24-2010, 12:01 PM
The Brewers biggest problem last season was run prevention. That was due to poor pitching and poor defense. They improved their pitching greatly with Greinke and Marcum. But they also weakened an already poor defense to do so. Bentencourt is a terrible, well below average defensive SS, while Escobar was above average.

The Brewers got better, but not by much.

Plus how have they imporved what has to have been one of the worse bullpens in our division. The two pitchers they added will each see maybe 30 games of action each this season, meanwhile their bullpen pitchers will see considerable more and you have to wonder how the weaken defense will impact their starting pitching.

brm7675
12-24-2010, 12:03 PM
Well enough. At least they addressed their problems and got better than they were at the end of 2010.



How do you know this? They are trying to go all in this year anyhow. In order to get rid of the high contract and get cheaper, you will have to trade for prospects, which are a crapshoot anyhow. How do you know they wouldn't rather try for drafting players in 2012 than take the best offer at the deadline?

If the Brewers are still in it at the trade deadline (which I believe they will), than, I don't see them getting rid of anyone. They want this thing this badly in 2011.

Now, they main thing I think that will slow them down is if they get hurt, they don't really have anything left in the minors after trading to get their two pitchers. Basically, I think it's either 2011 or a long, long time before the Brewers do anything.

Because you can't sell your fan base on that. They will have to get some kind of talent in return or their fans will go nutz.

lonewolf371
12-24-2010, 12:11 PM
Their offence wasn't the problem last year.. It was their pitching. I'd say the adequately fixed that problem. The Brewers are the main team I'm worried about in the Central. Even more so than the Cards.
Here's why I think the Brewers offense will be worse next year:

Braun's been getting worse in terms of power every year of his major league career in favor of reducing his strikeouts. He's provided no signs of reversing that trend.

Corey Hart won't have an ISO of .242 next year and hit 30 HRs with 100 RBI.

Rickie Weeks's injury problems will probably show up again.

Why the Brewers offense could be better:

It's an odd-numbered year and a contract year for Fielder.

McGehee may be able to maintain his pace.

But overall I think the decline of Braun/Weeks/Hart will offset whatever Fielder gives them in upgrade.

Hondo
12-24-2010, 01:48 PM
Here's why I think the Brewers offense will be worse next year:

Braun's been getting worse in terms of power every year of his major league career in favor of reducing his strikeouts. He's provided no signs of reversing that trend.

Corey Hart won't have an ISO of .242 next year and hit 30 HRs with 100 RBI.

Rickie Weeks's injury problems will probably show up again.

Why the Brewers offense could be better:

It's an odd-numbered year and a contract year for Fielder.

McGehee may be able to maintain his pace.

But overall I think the decline of Braun/Weeks/Hart will offset whatever Fielder gives them in upgrade.

Dude I would take Braun in Left or Hart in Left with not even a flinch... Those 2 guys can hit!

Also, you could say the same thing about any of the Reds bats...

I Love the Reds but to hang your hopes on Ryan Braun's hitting skills diminishing or Hart not repeating his last season... What if they just be steady and both hit 25 Homers and knock in 100 RBI each... Fo with Fielder doing at least the same with more Dingers and you have a potent offense.

brm7675
12-24-2010, 02:01 PM
Dude I would take Braun in Left or Hart in Left with not even a flinch... Those 2 guys can hit!

Also, you could say the same thing about any of the Reds bats...

I Love the Reds but to hang your hopes on Ryan Braun's hitting skills diminishing or Hart not repeating his last season... What if they just be steady and both hit 25 Homers and knock in 100 RBI each... Fo with Fielder doing at least the same with more Dingers and you have a potent offense.

They had a potent offense last year and that got there where? All they have done is add two guys who will only play in about 30 games each and have weakened their D, I don't see how they have improved themselves that much overall.

lonewolf371
12-24-2010, 02:12 PM
Dude I would take Braun in Left or Hart in Left with not even a flinch... Those 2 guys can hit!

Also, you could say the same thing about any of the Reds bats...

I Love the Reds but to hang your hopes on Ryan Braun's hitting skills diminishing or Hart not repeating his last season... What if they just be steady and both hit 25 Homers and knock in 100 RBI each... Fo with Fielder doing at least the same with more Dingers and you have a potent offense.
A .242 ISO for Hart is unsustainable. To give you a little perspective, Ken Griffey, Jr. had a .254 career ISO and Prince Fielder has a career .256. I will guarantee that Hart will not smack that many HRs or RBI next year. I believe Braun will stay the same or get worse. McGehee will probably stay the same. Fielder could get better. Weeks could see some injury trouble.

Braun is a great player but I'd take Votto over him in a heartbeat. It's not my hopes on Braun's skills, it's facts. Look at his player page:

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3410&position=OF

His power has clearly declined by a significant margin every year of his major league career. Last year he wasn't the player that most of us think of him as being, and I think he'll stay that way next year.

I can't say the same thing about any of the Reds bats. Votto has shown all along he can hit this way and would only be in for a slight decline. Stubbs' ISO last year was right in line with his career ISO. Bruce is actually performing UNDER his potential. Gomes was right in line with his career rates. Brandon Phillips was at his career rates or slightly under. Actually, everything points to the types of season the Reds had last year as being the exact type of season they should have most years. The only guy I could see a probable decline in would be Rolen if the Reds can't keep him healthy.

Hondo
12-24-2010, 02:50 PM
A .242 ISO for Hart is unsustainable. To give you a little perspective, Ken Griffey, Jr. had a .254 career ISO and Prince Fielder has a career .256. I will guarantee that Hart will not smack that many HRs or RBI next year. I believe Braun will stay the same or get worse. McGehee will probably stay the same. Fielder could get better. Weeks could see some injury trouble.

Braun is a great player but I'd take Votto over him in a heartbeat. It's not my hopes on Braun's skills, it's facts. Look at his player page:

http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=3410&position=OF

His power has clearly declined by a significant margin every year of his major league career. Last year he wasn't the player that most of us think of him as being, and I think he'll stay that way next year.

I can't say the same thing about any of the Reds bats. Votto has shown all along he can hit this way and would only be in for a slight decline. Stubbs' ISO last year was right in line with his career ISO. Bruce is actually performing UNDER his potential. Gomes was right in line with his career rates. Brandon Phillips was at his career rates or slightly under. Actually, everything points to the types of season the Reds had last year as being the exact type of season they should have most years. The only guy I could see a probable decline in would be Rolen if the Reds can't keep him healthy.

I Love the Reds. I am not trying to make you defend the Reds Bats. But when people say the Brewers line up wont be consistant... How can you say the Reds will be?

I hope Votto improve or repeats his 2010 Stats, but could he decline? Possibly.

I hope Stubbs improves his average and smacks 20+ homers again but he might not.

After Phillips hit 30-30 I was thinking he would be that player every year but he wasn't...

So let me repeat. Reds are awesome. Love all the players...

But for you 2 to say the Brewers wont sustain their offense, its kinda naive.

Also, the Reds led the League in most offensive categories last year. They got whipped by the Phillies... By "pitching"

The Brewers added Marcum & Greinke...

I think that gives them 3 durable starters and Randy wolf in the 4 hole who will probably win 12 Games and Narveson isn't too bad for NUMBER 5...

I am not a Brewers fan but you guys are going to be in a world of hurt if you think the Brewers aren't a team to worry about...

They will probably be more Dangerous than the Cardinals.

brm7675
12-24-2010, 04:00 PM
I Love the Reds. I am not trying to make you defend the Reds Bats. But when people say the Brewers line up wont be consistant... How can you say the Reds will be?

I hope Votto improve or repeats his 2010 Stats, but could he decline? Possibly.

I hope Stubbs improves his average and smacks 20+ homers again but he might not.

After Phillips hit 30-30 I was thinking he would be that player every year but he wasn't...

So let me repeat. Reds are awesome. Love all the players...

But for you 2 to say the Brewers wont sustain their offense, its kinda naive.

Also, the Reds led the League in most offensive categories last year. They got whipped by the Phillies... By "pitching"

The Brewers added Marcum & Greinke...

I think that gives them 3 durable starters and Randy wolf in the 4 hole who will probably win 12 Games and Narveson isn't too bad for NUMBER 5...

I am not a Brewers fan but you guys are going to be in a world of hurt if you think the Brewers aren't a team to worry about...

They will probably be more Dangerous than the Cardinals.

Matchup the Reds and the Brewers....In pitching staff's I take the Reds hands down. At first base, I go Reds, second base, I go Reds, I will say draw at SS and the Brewers get 3rd. The Brewers get LF, but the Reds get CF and RF and the Catcher position. Benches i would put at a tie right now. So I don't see the Brewers beating out the Reds...

brm7675
12-24-2010, 04:03 PM
Also, the Reds led the League in most offensive categories last year. They got whipped by the Phillies... By "pitching"

.

to a degree yes, but lets also remember this was the first time in the playoffs for the Reds, we were an extremely young team with almost no playoff experience outside of maybe 2-3 guys. We were in each game and should have won game 2 if not for inexperience rookie mistakes. our pitching pretty much handled the might phils bats. So I woulnd't say it was totally 'pitching by the Phils" that cost us the series, it was a factor of a few things.

Hondo
12-24-2010, 04:48 PM
to a degree yes, but lets also remember this was the first time in the playoffs for the Reds, we were an extremely young team with almost no playoff experience outside of maybe 2-3 guys. We were in each game and should have won game 2 if not for inexperience rookie mistakes. our pitching pretty much handled the might phils bats. So I woulnd't say it was totally 'pitching by the Phils" that cost us the series, it was a factor of a few things.

Yeah the other team scored more runs than the Reds... so they won.

brm7675
12-24-2010, 04:56 PM
Yeah the other team scored more runs than the Reds... so they won.

They won due to that but the reason they scored more runs is just more then "thier" pitching staff.

Hondo
12-24-2010, 06:06 PM
They won due to that but the reason they scored more runs is just more then "thier" pitching staff.

I have got a gold fish.