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View Full Version : Is a pitcher with a 60/67 W/L record and lifetime 3.82 really that great?



brm7675
12-24-2010, 05:29 PM
Looking over his overall numbers, I just don't see how he is that much better then what the Reds already have. Yes he had the one outstanding season where he won the Cy Young, but looking at his overall numbers;

60 67 .472 3.82

I see a good pitcher, but not a great pitcher. Add into that he is already at 11 million owed per season, I just can't figure out what people see in him that is THAT much better then what we have. I mean if you are going to deal away significant talent, isn't that done to improve areas where you are weak in?

Hondo
12-24-2010, 05:38 PM
Looking over his overall numbers, I just don't see how he is that much better then what the Reds already have. Yes he had the one outstanding season where he won the Cy Young, but looking at his overall numbers;

60 67 .472 3.82

I see a good pitcher, but not a great pitcher. Add into that he is already at 11 million owed per season, I just can't figure out what people see in him that is THAT much better then what we have. I mean if you are going to deal away significant talent, isn't that done to improve areas where you are weak in?

You're talking about Grienke...

And yeah the Royals dreadful Offense and Defense had nothing to do with his over all numbers...

brm7675
12-24-2010, 05:39 PM
You're talking about Grienke...

And yeah the Royals dreadful Offense and Defense had nothing to do with his over all numbers...

Wait, he did have his one great season, did KC get good for one season?

Hondo
12-24-2010, 05:42 PM
Wait, he did have his one great season, did KC get good for one season?

Dude would have won 24 games if not for that Dreadful team...

Steve Carlton won 27 Games for the Phillies losing team...

In Carlton's first season with Philadelphia, he led the league in wins (27), complete games (30), strikeouts (310), and ERA (1.97), despite playing for a team whose final record was 59-97

brm7675
12-24-2010, 05:45 PM
Dude would have won 24 games if not for that Dreadful team...

Steve Carlton won 27 Games for the Phillies losing team...

In Carlton's first season with Philadelphia, he led the league in wins (27), complete games (30), strikeouts (310), and ERA (1.97), despite playing for a team whose final record was 59-97

What does what Carlton did have anything to do with Grienke? Again, if Grienke is so good, why only the 1 great season? He was on the same team and yet his performance levels have been all over the place...

Hondo
12-24-2010, 05:54 PM
What does what Carlton did have anything to do with Grienke? Again, if Grienke is so good, why only the 1 great season? He was on the same team and yet his performance levels have been all over the place...

You asked how the Royals did that year and if they got better because of it.
I showed you another team who had a Cy Young Winner on a losing team...

brm7675
12-24-2010, 06:03 PM
You asked how the Royals did that year and if they got better because of it.
I showed you another team who had a Cy Young Winner on a losing team...

the present Cy Young winner who had either a losing record or close to it played on a losing team in the AL. What is your point? Great pitchers are great no matter the team, Grienke has not been great his entire career, just one season.

Hondo
12-24-2010, 06:07 PM
the present Cy Young winner who had either a losing record or close to it played on a losing team in the AL. What is your point? Great pitchers are great no matter the team, Grienke has not been great his entire career, just one season.

That was Leftys first season in Philly bud...

And that was your point... How did the team do? Not Mine... remember what you're typing here...

brm7675
12-24-2010, 06:14 PM
That was Leftys first season in Philly bud...

And that was your point... How did the team do? Not Mine... remember what you're typing here...

No my view on Grienke is simple, i believe people have overvalued him off of one great season. Look at his overall numbers and he isn't a great pitcher. Look at Carlton's before numbers before that 27 win season with the Phils and even after it, his numbers leap off the page, Grienke's doesn't. It's not that Greinke is not a good pitcher, but he is not great.

Hondo
12-24-2010, 06:18 PM
No my view on Grienke is simple, i believe people have overvalued him off of one great season. Look at his overall numbers and he isn't a great pitcher. Look at Carlton's before numbers before that 27 win season with the Phils and even after it, his numbers leap off the page, Grienke's doesn't. It's not that Greinke is not a good pitcher, but he is not great.

Would Greinke improve the Reds rotation if the Reds "had" acquired him?

brm7675
12-24-2010, 06:31 PM
Would Greinke improve the Reds rotation if the Reds "had" acquired him?

not enough to off set the loss of players it would have cost us or at the cost of development of a Leake or Wood. plus you add payroll which would have hurt our ability to hopefully add maybe a quality LF. So no i don't see improving the team overall and that is what you have to look at. I don't believe the Brewers are overall better now that they have him then they were before they got him.

brm7675
12-24-2010, 06:32 PM
had we gotten Grienke I would see him in the 3 spot, behind Bronson in the 1 spot, Cueto in the 2 spot, Grienke in the 3 spot, Wood in the 4 spot and Leake in the 5 spot.

NorrisHopper30
12-25-2010, 01:38 AM
He won Cy Young for one of the worst teams in baseball, I think you're looking way too much into it. Greinke is a great pitcher and would be our #1.

BigPoppa
12-25-2010, 07:16 AM
Is Carlton available ?

Kiss the Baby00
12-25-2010, 09:44 AM
had we gotten Grienke I would see him in the 3 spot, behind Bronson in the 1 spot, Cueto in the 2 spot, Grienke in the 3 spot, Wood in the 4 spot and Leake in the 5 spot.

LOL. you obv know more than top baseball execs.

TheBigLebowski
12-25-2010, 09:48 AM
W/L stat is completely overvalued when appraising a pitcher's value.

That being said, I do agree that Greinke was the beneficiary of a little "irrational exuberance." I would have liked to have had him and I would have given up what the Brewers did, but I think we have more than enough pitching to get us by.

Now, I would love to see us pick up a legit LF and leadoff guy....perhaps one dude can wear both hats....

Hondo
12-26-2010, 03:27 PM
not enough to off set the loss of players it would have cost us or at the cost of development of a Leake or Wood. plus you add payroll which would have hurt our ability to hopefully add maybe a quality LF. So no i don't see improving the team overall and that is what you have to look at. I don't believe the Brewers are overall better now that they have him then they were before they got him.

The Brewers did not Trade any Major League Pitching...

NorrisHopper30
12-26-2010, 04:02 PM
Anyone who thinks Greinke is overrated will find out this year that he isn't overrated..

757690
12-26-2010, 10:09 PM
The Brewers did not Trade any Major League Pitching...

Jeffries pitched for the Brewers last season and will be in the Royals rotation in 2011.

Regardless, there is no way the Royals trade Greinke to the Reds without a young, MLB ready starting pitcher coming back.

757690
12-26-2010, 10:18 PM
Anyone who thinks Greinke is overrated will find out this year that he isn't overrated..

I mean, doesn't anybody remember how he pitched against the Reds last year?

Except for two homers to Votto, he was lights out. 9 IP CG 5 Hitter with 12 K's and no walks.

He is and will be dominant.

brm7675
12-27-2010, 11:02 AM
The Brewers did not Trade any Major League Pitching...

who do they have that the Royals would have wanted?

brm7675
12-27-2010, 11:05 AM
LOL. you obv know more than top baseball execs.

If Grienke is so valuable how is it the Brewers ended up with him? Are you telling me that the Yankees, Rangers, Angels, Red Sox, Cardinals, Braves gosh who else just didn't want him or didn't think he was worth giving that much up for?

lonewolf371
12-27-2010, 11:18 AM
If Grienke is so valuable how is it the Brewers ended up with him? Are you telling me that the Yankees, Rangers, Angels, Red Sox, Cardinals, Braves gosh who else just didn't want him or didn't think he was worth giving that much up for?
He was probably on his no-trade list. Did you follow the Greinke stories?

And to answer your question, yes, he is that good. I think I'd rather the Reds keep their prospects, myself, unless there was a way to deal away Cordero at the same time to make money room.

brm7675
12-27-2010, 02:10 PM
He was probably on his no-trade list. Did you follow the Greinke stories?

And to answer your question, yes, he is that good. I think I'd rather the Reds keep their prospects, myself, unless there was a way to deal away Cordero at the same time to make money room.

Never said he wasn't good, i just don't believe he that much of a step up then what we have, he is more expensive and would have cost us some serious young talent.

Kiss the Baby00
12-27-2010, 10:27 PM
Never said he wasn't good, i just don't believe he that much of a step up then what we have, he is more expensive and would have cost us some serious young talent.

lol i honestly believe you are one big level. a spoof account for sure. nobody could have 1300posts on a bseball forum and be this clueless. he didnt go to all those teams you listed bc he had a no trade clause in his contract to most of those teams. im sure you will spout off some other dumb stuff to make yourself feel better but you really are a joke.