PDA

View Full Version : Marvin to Bengals: Changes must happen, or I'm gone



Reds4Life
01-02-2011, 01:04 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=5981214



By Adam Schefter
ESPN
Archive

People who have spoken to Marvin Lewis say that, as much as he'd like to stay in Cincinnati as the Bengals' coach, he believes it's time to move on from his current job -- unless the team makes changes they've been unwilling to make for years.

Lewis, whose contract expires after this season, will meet early this week with Bengals president Mike Brown, according to league sources.

Lewis would like the Bengals to upgrade their training facilities and their player personnel department, and he is so adamant on these issues that it is the reason he declined to sign the contract extension offered him before this season.

If Cincinnati is unwilling to budge on these issues -- and there is no indication they are -- then Lewis will not return to Cincinnati next season and he will become the latest desirable coach on the open market.

The Bengals have had only two winning records and lost their two playoff games during his eight seasons. He has a 60-66-1 record heading into the game against Baltimore (11-4).

The Bengals had gone 15 years between winning records when he led them to the division title in 2005. They won it again last year, and splurged on the payroll to try to win their first back-to-back division titles in franchise history.

Instead, Lewis has presided over perhaps the franchise's biggest disappointment. The Bengals tied the club record by losing 10 in a row, and receiver Terrell Owens blamed the coaching staff for the offense's troubles. Cincinnati failed to sell out the last four home games.

Should Lewis leave, the Bengals have an ideal in-house candidate in defensive coordinator Mike Zimmer.

Adam Schefter is ESPN's NFL Insider. Information from The Associated Press was used in this report.

Marvin might as well put his house on the market, and start getting quotes from moving companies. Brown isn't going to change anything. I'm sure they'll try and hire Zimmer on the cheap, and the cycle starts again in Bengal-land.

LawFive
01-02-2011, 01:13 PM
Adios, Marvin.

WVRed
01-02-2011, 01:52 PM
Adios, Marvin.

My thoughts exactly.

Marvin has done way more than any coach in the Mike Brown era and for that Bengals fans should be grateful, but this seasons complete meltdown coupled with very minimal overall success doesn't really help his case.

If anything its burning bridges on the way out. Marvin is saying what Bengal fans have been saying for years. It's never going to change and its going to tie the Bengals into more or less hiring a Mike Zimmer because it will paint Marvin as somebody who didn't have the control to do what he wanted. No experienced coach (which is what the Bengals need) is going to come anywhere close to Cincy.

Marvin was gone anyways, what he is doing is basically giving Mike Brown an ultimatum that is going to put the franchise further on back. Sad part is, I don't know if I really blame Marvin.

Reds4Life
01-02-2011, 02:04 PM
My thoughts exactly.

Marvin has done way more than any coach in the Mike Brown era and for that Bengals fans should be grateful, but this seasons complete meltdown coupled with very minimal overall success doesn't really help his case.

If anything its burning bridges on the way out. Marvin is saying what Bengal fans have been saying for years. It's never going to change and its going to tie the Bengals into more or less hiring a Mike Zimmer because it will paint Marvin as somebody who didn't have the control to do what he wanted. No experienced coach (which is what the Bengals need) is going to come anywhere close to Cincy.

Marvin was gone anyways, what he is doing is basically giving Mike Brown an ultimatum that is going to put the franchise further on back. Sad part is, I don't know if I really blame Marvin.

It's hard to seperate the failings of Lewis as a coach, and organizational issues due to the team being run by a clueless idiot. I don't believe Brown cares about winning, he never has. If they win, ok, if they don't, oh well. Mikey boy still gets his truckload of cash, so he doesn't care either way.

I don't think Lewis has anything to lose by doing this. The Bengals, as an organization, are viewed as a joke. If he nukes a few bridges and takes a few jabs on his way out the door, I doubt any potential employer is going to care all that much. He can always blame everything on Brown, and it would be credible.

If I was Zimmer, there is no way I'd take the job. Why would anyone who wants to start out as a coach want to coach here? Your ability to do your job is severely limited, and you start your head coaching career stained with the stigma of losing records thanks to one of the most incompetent organizations in the NFL. The only reason to take that job would be for the paycheck for a few years, and knowing Mike Brown, he will make sure that paycheck is as small as he can get away with.

With Haywood getting canned at Pitt, wondering if maybe Marvin will consider taking a college job.

Kingspoint
01-02-2011, 02:35 PM
It's about time someone gave Mike Brown an ultimatum other than their punter or a disgruntled All-Pro player.

It's nice to see Marvin have some self-respect.

Kingspoint
01-02-2011, 02:37 PM
I don't think Lewis has anything to lose by doing this. The Bengals, as an organization, are viewed as a joke. If he nukes a few bridges and takes a few jabs on his way out the door, I doubt any potential employer is going to care all that much. He can always blame everything on Brown, and it would be credible.



That's the impression I always get when I hear respected people like Cowher and Jimmy Johnson laugh their heads off whenever the topic of Mike Brown comes up.

Kingspoint
01-02-2011, 02:41 PM
If I was Zimmer, there is no way I'd take the job. Why would anyone who wants to start out as a coach want to coach here? Your ability to do your job is severely limited, and you start your head coaching career stained with the stigma of losing records thanks to one of the most incompetent organizations in the NFL. The only reason to take that job would be for the paycheck for a few years, and knowing Mike Brown, he will make sure that paycheck is as small as he can get away with.



I agree. Would love to see him turn it down, if only so that our Defense is run by a good D. C.. However, if someone like Paul Alexander gets offered the job, then it's in my best interest that Zimmer takes the job.

I wouldn't mind seeing Bratkowski get the Head Coaching job for two reasons. He'll no longer be the O. C., unless he tries to be one of those Head Coaches who also makes the Offensive play calls. Secondly, as Zimmer's close friend, he'll let Zimmer do what he wants and try to give him the tools he needs to succeed (not that Marvin didn't do that, but I'm certain that Brat would).

KoryMac5
01-02-2011, 02:56 PM
Mike Brown will never upgrade the personel dept or go out and get an outdoor practice facility for the team to use. Marvin knows that and doesn't want to be blamed for things not working out here. I really can't see anyone but a desperate person taking the HC job with this team knowing that you won't be given a chance by this owner to build a winner. Billick fits the desperate HC candidate to a T!

traderumor
01-02-2011, 03:10 PM
I like Marvin, always have. It is easy to see his faults with some game management issues, but the Bengals have had two playoff runs and been watchable for most of his regime. He seems to be a decent administrator, a hard worker, and generally honest. Considering his handicaps created by his boss, that is commendable.

A lot of the player character issues seem to now point back to Daddy Warbucks, who is like the father of spoiled children that frustrates the mother trying to do the right thing and continually getting undermined by the permissive parent's unwilling to discipline the children and let them get away with bad behavior under the guise of being a generous person.

I don't think he's burning bridges, I think he is showing the courage to tell Mike Brown to do what is necessary to win consistently in the NFL or he's gone.

Eric_the_Red
01-02-2011, 03:47 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81d61251/article/university-of-pittsburgh-interested-in-bengals-coach-lewis?module=HP_headlines


Cincinnati Bengals coach Marvin Lewis is on the short list of candidates to take over the University of Pittsburgh's football program, a league source said Sunday.

Reds4Life
01-02-2011, 04:08 PM
Mike Brown will never upgrade the personel dept or go out and get an outdoor practice facility for the team to use. Marvin knows that and doesn't want to be blamed for things not working out here. I really can't see anyone but a desperate person taking the HC job with this team knowing that you won't be given a chance by this owner to build a winner. Billick fits the desperate HC candidate to a T!

I hope UC never allows the Bengals to use their new outdoor practice facility. When UC approached Brown about playing some games at PBS, he gave them an outrageous price, and wanted 50% of the consession sales and everything else.

Screw him.

The Operator
01-02-2011, 04:20 PM
I hope UC never allows the Bengals to use their new outdoor practice facility. When UC approached Brown about playing some games at PBS, he gave them an outrageous price, and wanted 50% of the consession sales and everything else.

Screw him.Indeed. He certainly does everything he can to build the goodwill of the city, no?

WVRed
01-02-2011, 04:29 PM
I don't think he's burning bridges, I think he is showing the courage to tell Mike Brown to do what is necessary to win consistently in the NFL or he's gone.

Thats just the problem though, Marvin is coaching a last place team and saying "If you don't do what I say, I'm leaving" when he is going to likely be fired anyways. It's kinda silly.

It would be the equivalent of Rich Rodriguez at Michigan saying he isn't going to return next year unless changes are made. The fact that Marvin's contract is up is just a formality.

WVRed
01-02-2011, 04:30 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81d61251/article/university-of-pittsburgh-interested-in-bengals-coach-lewis?module=HP_headlines

Good to see Pitt finally getting it right. I thought Marvin should have been a candidate the first time. Either Marvin or Rich Rod would be perfect there.

KoryMac5
01-02-2011, 05:09 PM
Thats just the problem though, Marvin is coaching a last place team and saying "If you don't do what I say, I'm leaving" when he is going to likely be fired anyways. It's kinda silly.

It would be the equivalent of Rich Rodriguez at Michigan saying he isn't going to return next year unless changes are made. The fact that Marvin's contract is up is just a formality.

However Marvin has been telling Brown this for a few years now, hence why he didn't sign the extension after winning coach of the year. He just started going public on the situation recently to save face with potential job offers.

Kingspoint
01-02-2011, 05:15 PM
Billick fits the desperate HC candidate to a T!

Yes, he does.

And, where I used to like him a lot, I grew to really question his decision-making his last couple of seasons. Though, he could still out-coach Marvin.

Kingspoint
01-02-2011, 05:16 PM
A lot of the player character issues seem to now point back to Daddy Warbucks, who is like the father of spoiled children that frustrates the mother trying to do the right thing and continually getting undermined by the permissive parent's unwilling to discipline the children and let them get away with bad behavior under the guise of being a generous person.



Great analogy.

Mom's finally taking the rolling-pin to dad's head.

Kingspoint
01-02-2011, 05:18 PM
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81d61251/article/university-of-pittsburgh-interested-in-bengals-coach-lewis?module=HP_headlines

Expected that.

And, Marvin may choose the peace, tranquility and respect he can get by going back to College. He's certainly earned it after working for Mike Brown.

Sea Ray
01-02-2011, 05:24 PM
Expected that.

And, Marvin may choose the peace, tranquility and respect he can get by going back to College. He's certainly earned it after working for Mike Brown.

They can have him

Reds4Life
01-02-2011, 05:26 PM
They can have him

Who exactaly do you think is going to replace him? No high quality coach is going to come here and work for this organization.

The Operator
01-02-2011, 05:29 PM
Who exactaly do you think is going to replace him? No high quality coach is going to come here and work for this organization.
That's my biggest holdup.

I'm no Marvin supporter but things can be much, much worse. The grass is not always greener and that's certainly the case when Mike Brown is in charge of picking the new lawn.

Brutus
01-02-2011, 05:39 PM
Who exactaly do you think is going to replace him? No high quality coach is going to come here and work for this organization.

Yep.

Those that complain about Lewis: you won't find better. At least not to come work for this organization.

Given what he has to work with, and given that Mike Brown still has all the ultimate say, Lewis did as good a job in Cincinnati as one could expect. Cincinnati won't lure any top candidates for the job because of the reputation of ownership and lack of control over personnel.

So given that, letting Lewis walk would not be wise IMHO.

MrCinatit
01-02-2011, 07:11 PM
That's my biggest holdup.

I'm no Marvin supporter but things can be much, much worse. The grass is not always greener and that's certainly the case when Mike Brown is in charge of picking the new lawn.



Unfortunately, I think this will be it for the rest of the Brown era, however long it lasts.
I think Lewis was about the last chance of the Mike Brown-era Bengals to retain a consistent level of winning and respect (not win one year, even next year, lose next year, win next year). Once Lewis moves on - and I am quite certain he will - expect the miserable 1990s to be repeated.

This is a smart move by Lewis. He has a chance to make himself not look the bad guy, and for everyone's opinion of Brown to stay the same (basically, sort of allowing Mike Brown to save face). I expect Lewis to be gone, Zimmerman to be gone a couple of years after that and so on and so on and so on and so on. About the only recognizable face in the franchise for the next couple of years could be Palmer, the shell of his former self.

Redsfaithful
01-02-2011, 07:44 PM
Mike Brown is viewed by everyone in the NFL as a complete joke. Marvin certainly isn't hurting himself by saying what everyone already knows.

You never know. Mike changed a tiny bit when he hired Marvin, maybe he'll make some more changes to keep him around. The Bengals certainly could do much worse, and probably will if Lewis goes.

cincrazy
01-02-2011, 08:56 PM
Good luck Marvin. He stayed on this ship as long as he could. Now jump the hell out before the iceberg hits.

Sea Ray
01-02-2011, 09:27 PM
Who exactaly do you think is going to replace him? No high quality coach is going to come here and work for this organization.

I'm guessing Brian Billick; maybe the Atl OC, possibly Zimmer or Hue Jackson. No matter who comes, it's pointless if Brat is still the OC. I'd be more impressed with Marvin's complaints if it included a new OC

Caveat Emperor
01-02-2011, 10:24 PM
I'm guessing Brian Billick; maybe the Atl OC, possibly Zimmer or Hue Jackson. No matter who comes, it's pointless if Brat is still the OC. I'd be more impressed with Marvin's complaints if it included a new OC

You can probably add Jim More Jr. to that list as well. Maybe even dust off some old favorites like Jim Fassel or Steve Marriuci. There are a lot of guys out there with head coaching experience that might jump for what Brown is offering (even if it is a dead-end job with little chance of success -- ego is a funny thing).

Reality is, though, that the Bengals (or any team) would be silly to bring in a coach from off the streets with the possibility existing that a labor dispute would wipe out all OTAs for 2011. If there's a lockout, an "outside hire" might not even meet with his team until a week or two before the season begins. Their best move, likely, is to retain Lewis or promote Zimmer.

paintmered
01-02-2011, 10:42 PM
I hope UC never allows the Bengals to use their new outdoor practice facility. When UC approached Brown about playing some games at PBS, he gave them an outrageous price, and wanted 50% of the consession sales and everything else.

Screw him.

I'm fine with letting the Bengals use it for practice. My price would start at $10K per hour and not the $300/hr they charged Miami, however. I'd also make the Bengals schedule around all the UC sports and intra-murals who use the facility. Oh, and you get to pay UC Parking just like everyone else does while you're using it. kthxbai.

But yeah, screw him.

WVRed
01-02-2011, 11:39 PM
However Marvin has been telling Brown this for a few years now, hence why he didn't sign the extension after winning coach of the year. He just started going public on the situation recently to save face with potential job offers.

I get it, but its still silly to come out and demand changes when you are likely going to be fired anyways.

If he had made the comments after Mikey tried to sign him to an extension, there would have likely been more fan support which may have aided Marvin and Mike both getting what they wanted.

I'd be perfectly happy with Brian Billick, but as Boss said in the other thread, he is going to want more control than SoP is willing to give.

Playadlc
01-03-2011, 12:26 AM
Marvin Lewis has 0 playoff wins in 8 seasons here. With the roster Lewis had, the Bengals should have not only made the playoffs, but win a game in the playoffs. Instead, we go 4-12.

Marvin Lewis needs to be held responsible for this disaster of a season. Brown, despite all his faults, gave Lewis a team that could be successful. Marvin failed miserably.

I think I am ready for a change.

Sea Ray
01-03-2011, 12:54 AM
I get it, but its still silly to come out and demand changes when you are likely going to be fired anyways.

If he had made the comments after Mikey tried to sign him to an extension, there would have likely been more fan support which may have aided Marvin and Mike both getting what they wanted.

I'd be perfectly happy with Brian Billick, but as Boss said in the other thread, he is going to want more control than SoP is willing to give.

Who's to say Billick will have options? If he wants to coach in the NFL it may be Bengals or nothing

Kingspoint
01-03-2011, 01:43 AM
Marvin Lewis has 0 playoff wins in 8 seasons here. With the roster Lewis had, the Bengals should have not only made the playoffs, but win a game in the playoffs. Instead, we go 4-12.

Marvin Lewis needs to be held responsible for this disaster of a season. Brown, despite all his faults, gave Lewis a team that could be successful. Marvin failed miserably.

I think I am ready for a change.

And, that's the bottom-line.

Caveat Emperor
01-03-2011, 02:13 AM
Who's to say Billick will have options? If he wants to coach in the NFL it may be Bengals or nothing

I wouldn't be shocked if he emerged as the top candidate for the SF gig.

WVRed
01-03-2011, 10:27 AM
Who's to say Billick will have options? If he wants to coach in the NFL it may be Bengals or nothing

My guess is if it comes down to coaching the Bengals or remaining at Fox and then waiting for a more desirable job to come open, he will stay at Fox.


I wouldn't be shocked if he emerged as the top candidate for the SF gig.

I think they are going to go all in for Jim Harbaugh. Also seen Marvin Lewis mentioned.

KoryMac5
01-03-2011, 11:24 AM
My guess is if it comes down to coaching the Bengals or remaining at Fox and then waiting for a more desirable job to come open, he will stay at Fox.



I think they are going to go all in for Jim Harbaugh. Also seen Marvin Lewis mentioned.

Billick was ticked that he didn't even get an interview for the Bills job. Coaching in Buffalo has to rank in the top 5 of least desirable jobs in the NFL. I have to think hewants back in after several yrs off, imagine he brings Fassel with him.

Caveat Emperor
01-03-2011, 12:43 PM
I think they are going to go all in for Jim Harbaugh. Also seen Marvin Lewis mentioned.

San Francisco is a mess -- it's a team that's been drifting aimlessly for the last 6 years and they still have no QB on the roster. With the overhaul that team needs plus the labor situation, I can't see Harbaugh jumping for the gig unelss he really wants in to the NFL.

I'm guessing he heads to Michigan, just a gut feeling though.

WVRed
01-03-2011, 02:00 PM
San Francisco is a mess -- it's a team that's been drifting aimlessly for the last 6 years and they still have no QB on the roster. With the overhaul that team needs plus the labor situation, I can't see Harbaugh jumping for the gig unelss he really wants in to the NFL.

I'm guessing he heads to Michigan, just a gut feeling though.

Same with me. I think San Fran will make a run at Harbaugh, but my guess is after the Bowl Game tonight you will see some movement made tomorrow. Rodriguez will probably be let go tomorrow and Harbaugh will become the top candidate there.

As for Marvin to San Fran, you kinda have to wonder about that. The York family isn't much better than Mike Brown when it comes to running a franchise and they are a lot less patient. Marvin got eight years to fiddle with mediocrity while he will be lucky to get three in SF.