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camisadelgolf
01-04-2011, 11:39 AM
I was just thinking about the rotation going into spring training, and I'm really impressed by all the potential. I was born in 1983, and I think the 2011 rotation has a chance to be the Reds' best of my lifetime. Even if things don't go smoothly, I can't see it being anywhere near as bad as the rotations of the early 2000s. We're talking about a time when Elmer Dessens and Paul Wilson were considered to be the Reds #1 starters. I'm so glad that has changed.

So anyway, what are some of the best and worst rotations of your time? For me, I'd say 2003 was the worst. The Danny Graves experiment was a failure. Jimmy Haynes finally regressed. Ryan Dempster was walking nearly as many batters as he was striking out. Jimmy Anderson, John Riedling, Seth Etherton, and Jeff Austin were all given lengthy trials to fill the #5 slot, and all of them were embarrassments to pitching.

The best rotation? That's a little more difficult for me to pick out. I thought for sure that I'd be picking a rotation with Jose Rijo, but ultimately, I think I have to go with 1999 over 1990. Even though there wasn't really an ace on the '99 team, it was very solid 1-5. Pete Harnisch was effective; Brett Tomko was coming of age; Steve Parris was doing surprisingly well; Ron Villone was holding his own; Denny Neagle had an off year but was still above average; Juan Guzman came over in a trade and was excellent.

So what about you all? What are the best and worst Reds rotations you've seen?

TRF
01-04-2011, 11:49 AM
Tomko bailed on that '99 team. He is not forgiven, and I had very high hopes for him going into 1999.

RANDY IN INDY
01-04-2011, 11:56 AM
Thinking of what could have been in 1970 and beyond. Jim Maloney, only 30 at the time, went down early with an achilles injury and would never be the same. A once fireballing Gary Nolan had a solid season, winning 18 but had the beginning of arm problems and never regained the dominating fastball. Wayne Simpson, whose stuff was as good and dominating as anyone I've ever seen with the Reds, went down midway through the year after winning 14 by the All-Star break and would never return to form. Lefty Jim Merritt put together two very good seasons for the Reds in 69 and 70 winning 17 and 20 and then nursed a sore arm during the World Series and was never the same. Red headed Jim McGlothlin won 14 games for the Reds in 1970 and was solid. Don Gullett was a rookie with electric stuff but was used in relief. A real shame that the staff never reached the potential it could have had because of injuries.

Jim Maloney
Gary Nolan
Wayne Simpson
Jim Merritt
Jim McGlothlin
Don Gullett

RedsBaron
01-04-2011, 02:52 PM
Randy's choice of the 1970 staff is a good one.
In my lifetime (but really before I became a fan) the Reds had decent rotations in the early to mid 1960s, first with Joey Jay-Bob Purkey-Jim O'Toole (1961-62) and later with Jim Maloney-O'Toole and either Purkey or Joe Nuxhall (1963-64). Those rotations were still only about three deep in quality starters. The Reds gave up the fewest runs in the NL in 1964.
I was a fan by 1967 and that Reds team had a good rotation of Maloney, Milt Pappas, Gary Nolan and Mel Queen-each won between 14 and 16 games and Nolan and McQueen had ERAs under 3.00.
The 1973 rotation of Jack Billingham (he won 19 in this, easily his best season), Don Gullett (18 wins), Ross Grimsley (13 wins) and Fred Norman (12 wins) was good.

Captain Hook
01-04-2011, 03:26 PM
The starting pitching in 2005 was as bad as it gets.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~GS Wins ERA
Aaron Harang~~~~~32 11 3.83
Brandon Claussen~~29 10 4.21
Eric Milton~~~~~~~34 8 6.47
Ramon Ortiz~~~~~~30 9 5.36
Luke Hudson~~~~~~16 6 6.38
Paul Wilson~~~~~~~9 1 7.77

westofyou
01-04-2011, 03:30 PM
Randy's choice of the 1970 staff is a good one.
In my lifetime (but really before I became a fan) the Reds had decent rotations in the early to mid 1960s, first with Joey Jay-Bob Purkey-Jim O'Toole (1961-62) and later with Jim Maloney-O'Toole and either Purkey or Joe Nuxhall (1963-64). Those rotations were still only about three deep in quality starters. The Reds gave up the fewest runs in the NL in 1964.
I was a fan by 1967 and that Reds team had a good rotation of Maloney, Milt Pappas, Gary Nolan and Mel Queen-each won between 14 and 16 games and Nolan and McQueen had ERAs under 3.00.
The 1973 rotation of Jack Billingham (he won 19 in this, easily his best season), Don Gullett (18 wins), Ross Grimsley (13 wins) and Fred Norman (12 wins) was good.

Sparky was saddled with the name Captain Hook, yet the 1970 team had more CG than the 69 and 68 team and only 2 less than the 67 team.

mdccclxix
01-04-2011, 03:50 PM
The starting pitching in 2005 was as bad as it gets.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~GS Wins ERA
Aaron Harang~~~~~32 11 3.83
Brandon Claussen~~29 10 4.21
Eric Milton~~~~~~~34 8 6.47
Ramon Ortiz~~~~~~30 9 5.36
Luke Hudson~~~~~~16 6 6.38
Paul Wilson~~~~~~~9 1 7.77

And no minor league depth to trade at the deadline. What a joke that was.

traderumor
01-04-2011, 08:21 PM
1990
Rijo
Jackson
Browning
Armstrong
Charlton
Mahler

Hap
01-04-2011, 09:27 PM
1990
Rijo
Jackson
Browning
Armstrong
Charlton
Mahler

I'll follow this up with a mention of the 1992 rotation of

Jose Rijo
Tim Belcher
Greg Swindell

which had the potential to be very good, BUT Tom Browning was injured sliding into home on July 1, and Chris Hammond fizzled as a starter.

hebroncougar
01-04-2011, 09:41 PM
1992 was a pretty decent one as well:

Belcher 3.91
Swindell 2.70
Rijo 2.56
Hammond 4.21
Browning 5.07

camisadelgolf
01-04-2011, 10:39 PM
The 1993 rotation was pretty bad, but in the past 20+ years, I can't think of a better season by a Reds pitcher than Jose Rijo's in 1993?

GADawg
01-04-2011, 11:47 PM
Jimy Anderson? Jeff Austin? easy easy I'm trying to eat supper over here

Big Klu
01-05-2011, 01:59 AM
The 1993 rotation was pretty bad, but in the past 20+ years, I can't think of a better season by a Reds pitcher than Jose Rijo's in 1993?

It may not fall in your range since it was 23 years ago, but I would be tempted to take Danny Jackson in 1988.

Rijo's 1991 season was pretty good, too.

westofyou
01-05-2011, 10:05 AM
1988 CINCINNATI REDS PITCHING STATS

NAME W L PCT G GS CG SV GF IP H R ER BB SO
Danny Jackson 23 8 .742 35 35 15 0 0 260.2 206 86 79 71 161
Tom Browning 18 5 .783 36 36 5 0 0 250.2 205 98 95 64 124
Jose Rijo 13 8 .619 49 19 0 0 12 162 120 47 43 63 160

HokieRed
01-05-2011, 10:13 AM
[QUOTE=RedsBaron;2311722]Randy's choice of the 1970 staff is a good one.
In my lifetime (but really before I became a fan) the Reds had decent rotations in the early to mid 1960s, first with Joey Jay-Bob Purkey-Jim O'Toole (1961-62) and later with Jim Maloney-O'Toole and either Purkey or Joe Nuxhall (1963-64). Those rotations were still only about three deep in quality starters.

1961 as I remember it had a kind of interesting situation with the 4th starter. Ken Hunt pitched his one season and was lights out, I think, early on, finishing, though, 9-10 with a 3.96 and a 1.438 WHIP. But for part of the middle and later part of that season, the Reds did have a very good 4th guy to go with Jay, Purkey, and O'Toole. Guy's name is Ken Johnson, who came over from KC, went 3.25 and 1.12 over 15 appearances and 11 starts. Went 6 in a row right as the Reds needed it, IIRC. The next year he was with Houston; we must have lost him in a draft. Too bad because he went on to have a pretty solid career, though his W-L reflects rather his being with bad teams. 3.46 Lifetime, 1.199 WHIP over 1737 innings. Threw over 200 innings 5 times. So between Hunt and Johnson, the 1961 rotation really was 4 deep.