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Red Leader
01-04-2011, 02:37 PM
In what has become more of a formality in recent days, the University of Michigan has fired head football coach Rich Rodriguez.

Reports are that Jim Harbaugh and Brady Hoke are being mentioned as possible replacements, although, in the case of Harbaugh, he is thought to be more interested in heading to the NFL.

http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/dpp/sports/rich-rodriguez-fired-as-michigans-head-football-coach

RedsBaron
01-04-2011, 02:45 PM
:clap:

WVRed
01-04-2011, 02:46 PM
IMO its two candidates, Jim Harbaugh or Les Miles. Anybody else and they might as well have just kept Rodriguez for another season.

Let the Rich Rod to Pitt/UConn rumors commence.

Red Leader
01-04-2011, 02:50 PM
IMO its two candidates, Jim Harbaugh or Les Miles. Anybody else and they might as well have just kept Rodriguez for another season.


IMO, it's one candidate. Harbaugh. They're putting their chips all in again for one candidate, just like they did for Miles the last time. I hope the results don't end up being the same. There are already floods of tweets going around about player transfers. Most of which are likely bunk since a new coach hasn't even been announced yet.

pedro
01-04-2011, 02:58 PM
Screw Rich Rod, what kind of clown fields a defense like that or can't even manage to recruit a decent kicker to Michigan?

pedro
01-04-2011, 02:59 PM
Harbaugh isn't leaving Stanford for Michigan IMO.

gonelong
01-04-2011, 02:59 PM
As much fun as it has been beating up on Michigan the last few years, for the Big10s sake, they need a competent Michigan football program.

LoganBuck
01-04-2011, 03:01 PM
LSU is expected to be a top three team next year. They have tons of talent back. I doubt they hire Miles.

Marvin Lewis to Michigan?

BRM
01-04-2011, 03:03 PM
Harbaugh isn't leaving Stanford for Michigan IMO.

I don't think he will either. He'll go the NFL if he leaves Stanford IMO.

Caveat Emperor
01-04-2011, 03:04 PM
IMO, it's one candidate. Harbaugh. They're putting their chips all in again for one candidate, just like they did for Miles the last time. I hope the results don't end up being the same. There are already floods of tweets going around about player transfers. Most of which are likely bunk since a new coach hasn't even been announced yet.

There's a round peg / square hole problem with Michigan and Jim Harbaugh. Their roster is awful and they really don't have the right kids to run the system that I imagine Harbaugh will want to run.

There's a lengthy rebuild ahead of the next UM coach -- and if I were Harbaugh, I don't know that I'd trust the AD / Boosters to give me enough time to accomplish it.

But, then again, all the open / soon-to-be-open NFL gigs are kinda crap right now too.

Roy Tucker
01-04-2011, 03:14 PM
It's about time. The man was in over his head.

Last coaching time change around, I thought I heard there was bad blood between Harbaugh and UM. They'd be wise to hire him though.

Like gonelong said, I love beating up on UM every year but it really does need to be competitive and mean something.

westofyou
01-04-2011, 03:18 PM
Screw Rich Rod, what kind of clown fields a defense like that or can't even manage to recruit a decent kicker to Michigan?

This.

I know many a UM fan that was hoping he'd tank, he's not a UM caliber guy, never was and never will be evidently.

Thank god.

pedro
01-04-2011, 03:18 PM
There's a round peg / square hole problem with Michigan and Jim Harbaugh. Their roster is awful and they really don't have the right kids to run the system that I imagine Harbaugh will want to run.

There's a lengthy rebuild ahead of the next UM coach -- and if I were Harbaugh, I don't know that I'd trust the AD / Boosters to give me enough time to accomplish it.

But, then again, all the open / soon-to-be-open NFL gigs are kinda crap right now too.

Palo Alto is damn nice too. No offense but I'd much rather live there than Ann Arbor, or anywhere in the midwest for that matter.

Puffy
01-04-2011, 03:22 PM
Hello Brady Hoke........

westofyou
01-04-2011, 03:23 PM
Palo Alto is damn nice too. No offense but I'd much rather live there than Ann Arbor, or anywhere in the midwest for that matter.

This.

And I've lived both places

RFS62
01-04-2011, 03:24 PM
This.

I know many a UM fan that was hoping he'd tank, he's not a UM caliber guy, never was and never will be evidently.

Thank god.


Probably won't get into Bushwood any time soon either, eh?

http://thestockmasters.com/images/judge-smails-hat.gif

Red Leader
01-04-2011, 03:40 PM
Hello Brady Hoke........

Yep, that's my thinking.

And that doesn't exactly make me grin.

Sea Ray
01-04-2011, 03:43 PM
I don't know why they hired him in the first place. It's taken them 3 yrs to see the error of their ways

15fan
01-04-2011, 03:48 PM
"Good news, honey. I got a new job. Pack up the house & kids, 'cuz we're moving to metro Detroit!"

I know what kind of response that would get at my house.

(Hint: It rhymes with truck blue.")

Ann Arbor surely has its upside.

But I doubt it can touch San Francisco (either Stanford or the 49ers) or Denver if Elway & the Broncos get involved.

Miles to UM strikes me as the boomerang coming back on the John Cooper hiring 20 years ago.

"Cooper just beat Michigan in the Rose Bowl! He must be the bees knees!"

vs.

"Miles beat Ohio State for a National Title! He must be the bees knees!"

Miles, however, would make for great theater with Nebraska and Bo Pellini soon to be in the Big 10/11/12.

One thing is for sure. I'm absolutely shocked ;) that the Rich Rod philosophy of recruiting skill players all 5'10" and under didn't pan out in the Big 10/11/12.

Whoever takes over for Rodriguez is going to have a rough first year (or 2) with a roster that is pretty much outsized by most of the other teams in the conference.

Unassisted
01-04-2011, 03:51 PM
Anyone thinking it's Harbaugh will think differently after reading this: http://www.freep.com/article/20110103/SPORTS06/110104005/1354/SPORTS

Michigan's in a real bind, but after that bowl game embarassment they really had no choice. I don't envy Dave Brandon.

Red Leader
01-04-2011, 04:16 PM
Anyone thinking it's Harbaugh will think differently after reading this: http://www.freep.com/article/20110103/SPORTS06/110104005/1354/SPORTS

Michigan's in a real bind, but after that bowl game embarassment they really had no choice. I don't envy Dave Brandon.

That report came out this morning. Then the author promptly wrote another article saying that it was likely between the 49ers and UM, and if he had to guess, he'd probably go with UM. What I'm saying is, never read an article from the freep. They all suck.

As I said before, I'm not convinced that Harbaugh is going to take the job, actually I think it's unlikely as the whole UM community is basically rejoicing right now and all of them want Harbaugh. No chance that UM fans get two things to go right today...

I follow a lot of UM alumni on Twitter. They're all celebrating RichRod being fired, if that tells you anything. The guy was doomed from the beginning. No one liked him.

I hope at least that Dave Brandon learns from that mistake. He's got to hire someone that alumni can get behind and support. Whether that's Harbaugh, Hoke, or Miles. If I had to guess, it'd be Hoke, as I think Harbaugh will go to the NFL and I think UM should give a big middle finger to Miles for the last time we were in this position. I'm not too excited about Miles as an in-game coach anyway. That leaves Hoke. I'm undecided on him. He's not as flashy as Harbaugh, and hasn't had successful winning seasons like Miles. He has had success in the programs he's been at (Ball St, San Diego St) and has coached at Michigan before, so he's a Michigan man, but he hasn't had success in a BCS conference before....who knows. All I know is I'm happy the RichRod era at Michigan is over.

Boston Red
01-04-2011, 04:16 PM
Brady Hoke's offense was tons of fun to watch at SDSU. The defense? What defense?

MWM
01-04-2011, 04:39 PM
"Good news, honey. I got a new job. Pack up the house & kids, 'cuz we're moving to metro Detroit!"

I know what kind of response that would get at my house.

(Hint: It rhymes with truck blue.")

Ann Arbor surely has its upside.

But I doubt it can touch San Francisco (either Stanford or the 49ers) or Denver if Elway & the Broncos get involved.



Then why aren't coaches banging down the door to coach at Stanford. I doubt moving to the thriving metropolis of Tuscaloosa or Baton Rouge or Norman or Omaha really interests a whole lot of people either, yet I don't think they have a hard time finding guys who'd love to coach at the schools located there.

I highly doubt location is going to be much of a consideration to most of these guys. If it were, why would anyone move from San Diego?

WVRed
01-04-2011, 04:43 PM
Hello Brady Hoke........

And goodbye Michigan. Michigan absolutely needs to make a home run hire the same way Kentucky did when they fired Billy Gillispie or UNC when they were reeling from the Matt Doherty era. They are being passed over by the other school in-state and constantly losing to their fiercest rival and a Brady Hoke isn't going to turn that around.

Jim Harbaugh should be candidate number one. If he says no (and it appears he will), then do what they should have done the first time and go all in for Les Miles. IMO those should be the only two candidates.


I don't know why they hired him in the first place. It's taken them 3 yrs to see the error of their ways

I praised the Rodriguez hiring three years ago because at the time, Ohio State had trouble containing the spread option (evidenced by losses to SEC schools that had implemented it) and even Illinois which had ran it. I believed Rodriguez coming in was a risky hire that could bomb (which it did) or be something that could change the landscape of the Big Ten.

Now Michigan has been passed by Michigan State and is about to fade into irrelevancy. This is why they need a big hire.

WVRed
01-04-2011, 04:54 PM
Then why aren't coaches banging down the door to coach at Stanford. I doubt moving to the thriving metropolis of Tuscaloosa or Baton Rouge or Norman or Omaha really interests a whole lot of people either, yet I don't think they have a hard time finding guys who'd love to coach at the schools located there.

I highly doubt location is going to be much of a consideration to most of these guys. If it were, why would anyone move from San Diego?

To add to your point, include college basketball. Lexington KY, Lawrence KS, Raleigh-Durham NC, Chapel Hill NC.

It's called ego. The living conditions may not be as grand as living in California or Florida, but if you win, you are adored by the fans and can add your name to a pretty impressive list of people who passed there before you.

If you lose, you're still a multi-millionare.

As for Harbaugh, his intention is more than likely to coach in the NFL. He doesn't even have to leave the state to do it.

westofyou
01-04-2011, 05:00 PM
If it were, why would anyone move from San Diego?

Because SoCal sucks? ;)

MWM
01-04-2011, 05:03 PM
Because SoCal sucks? ;)

I agree, but the perception is that it's the best place in the world. I wouldn't live in San Diego if I was paid handsomely to do so. I lived there a year and that was enough for me. Weather is unbelievable though.

BuckeyeRed27
01-04-2011, 05:08 PM
If it's Hoke I think Michigan will have a whole bunch of 9-3 type seasons, but I don't see him getting them back in the NCG conversation.

Harbaugh would obviously be a great hire, but they would have to throw some crazy amount of money at him (5 or 6M a year?).

I don't really see Miles as an option this time around, but I think he would be a pretty solid hire too.

dabvu2498
01-04-2011, 05:17 PM
Then why aren't coaches banging down the door to coach at Stanford. I doubt moving to the thriving metropolis of Tuscaloosa or Baton Rouge or Norman or Omaha really interests a whole lot of people either, yet I don't think they have a hard time finding guys who'd love to coach at the schools located there.

I highly doubt location is going to be much of a consideration to most of these guys. If it were, why would anyone move from San Diego?

Yeah. All college towns are nice enough in their own ways. Especially when you have multiple millions of dollars in your bank account.

Fame and fortune are much bigger draws for college coaches than weather.

dabvu2498
01-04-2011, 05:18 PM
I don't really see Miles as an option this time around, but I think he would be a pretty solid hire too.

I think the Midwest media would eat him alive. In Louisiana, he's just another bumpkin.

MWM
01-04-2011, 05:25 PM
I think Miles would listen. He's got as big an ego as anyone out there and he could be the hero riding in on a white horse to rescue the sinking ship and return them to the days of Schembechler. He's got a good team coming back next year and is assembling a good recruiting class, so I can see why he would want to stay. But I don't think it's unreasonable to think he'd listen. Everyone has their dream job. Some guys are strong enough to resist the temptation (see Urban Meyer and Notre Dame), but most aren't.

I also know Peterson from Boise State has pretty much said he plans to stay there, but I'd definitely make the call and try to see if there's anything that could be done to sway him. It's a longshot, but if Harbaugh isn't interested, he would be a huge hire. Same for the guy from TCU, although I doubt he's gonig anywhere either.

The other guy, another big time longshot, would be Dan Mullen. He's probably not interested in leaving, but I think some assume he's an SEC guy. He's from Pennsylvania and was with Urban Meyer for a long time, so he's not like Muschamp who was clearly an SEC guy. He's got MSU on the right path, but he's always going to be recruiting uphill down there against the likes of Alabama, LSU, and Florida. He's much more likely to get big-time athletes at Michigan than at Mississippi St. MSU's not a bad job, but they're never going to be a consistent SEC powerhouse, IMO. He has a much better chance at playing for a national championship at Michigan than MSU. His offensive style would fit Denard Robinson, so he wouldn't need to completely retool the offense.

dabvu2498
01-04-2011, 05:32 PM
Petersen has coached one year east of the Rocky Mountains and does most of his good work in California. Not to say that this couldn't work.

I think Patterson would be a great hire. Not sexy, but I think he fits the mold at Michigan.

Red Leader
01-04-2011, 05:52 PM
What a freaking mess! Its being reported on several UM boards that no decision on Rodriguez has been made, and one won't be made until tomorrow. I can hardly believe they can bring him back at this point.


Reports that Rich Rodriguez has been fired are premature. TheWolverine.com has learned that no decision on the Michigan head coach's future will come until tomorrow.

The players' meeting that had been scheduled for tonight at 7:00 p.m. has been delayed until tomorrow at 4:00.

Maybe the delay is a response they received from Harbaugh's agent? I've heard many people say that if Harbaugh wasn't the man hired for this job, they would rather UM bring Rodriguez back for another year rather than hire a Brady Hoke-type just to make a change.

For me, I let him go. Immediately. You look at UM's Big Ten record over the last 3 years. Look at their record vs OSU and Michigan St. Look at ending the consecutive bowl streak. Look at UM's record vs ranked teams over the last 3 years. Look at the coach that brought NCAA sanctions to the school for the first time ever. Look at that coach and tell him to get the hell out of Ann Arbor.

Sea Ray
01-04-2011, 06:01 PM
What a freaking mess! Its being reported on several UM boards that no decision on Rodriguez has been made, and one won't be made until tomorrow. I can hardly believe they can bring him back at this point.



Maybe the delay is a response they received from Harbaugh's agent? I've heard many people say that if Harbaugh wasn't the man hired for this job, they would rather UM bring Rodriguez back for another year rather than hire a Brady Hoke-type just to make a change.

For me, I let him go. Immediately. You look at UM's Big Ten record over the last 3 years. Look at their record vs OSU and Michigan St. Look at ending the consecutive bowl streak. Look at UM's record vs ranked teams over the last 3 years. Look at the coach that brought NCAA sanctions to the school for the first time ever. Look at that coach and tell him to get the hell out of Ann Arbor.

That makes no sense. If Harbaugh doesn't come this year he sure ain't comin' next year. Either way Richrod has to go

Razor Shines
01-04-2011, 06:07 PM
Is he standing outside the Michigan AD's office with a boombox playing this:

YouTube - Josh Groban - You Raise Me Up (Video) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJxrX42WcjQ)

Red Leader
01-04-2011, 06:22 PM
Seriously, where's Ashton Kutcher?? I'm still waiting for someone to post on the boards that all of the UM fans got PUNK'D today. :laugh:

Just get rid of him already. He has absolutely no argument for being given more time in his current position. As Roy said, he's in way over his head and was from the moment he took this job. The relationship just didn't work out. I still think he's a good coach, he's just not a good coach for Michigan. A coach needs to be brought in that is going to return to a Pro-Style offense with a massive o-line and a swarming defense. I know its going to take time to turn the program back around and head in that direction. I realize we may lose Denard Robinson as we attempt to do that. There definitely aren't sunny days ahead in Ann Arbor, but why continue to delay the inevitable? It needs to be done and the sooner you start the better, IMO.

WVRed
01-04-2011, 09:46 PM
Seriously, where's Ashton Kutcher?? I'm still waiting for someone to post on the boards that all of the UM fans got PUNK'D today. :laugh:

Just get rid of him already. He has absolutely no argument for being given more time in his current position. As Roy said, he's in way over his head and was from the moment he took this job. The relationship just didn't work out. I still think he's a good coach, he's just not a good coach for Michigan. A coach needs to be brought in that is going to return to a Pro-Style offense with a massive o-line and a swarming defense. I know its going to take time to turn the program back around and head in that direction. I realize we may lose Denard Robinson as we attempt to do that. There definitely aren't sunny days ahead in Ann Arbor, but why continue to delay the inevitable? It needs to be done and the sooner you start the better, IMO.

This alone could be the reason a Jim Harbaugh wouldn't jump on this. Weeding out the players that don't fit for a job that may take five years to fully rebuild instead of three (which is what fans would likely give).

On a completely unrelated note, and I'm kinda wondering what some rational WVU fans would think about this assumption, but I kinda wonder if the loss to Pitt was the breaking point for Rodriguez. It just seems like ever since "13-9" he hasn't been the same person. I just think the guy has some issues to sort out and needs to do so before returning to coaching.

15fan
01-04-2011, 10:22 PM
I kinda wonder if the loss to Pitt was the breaking point for Rodriguez. It just seems like ever since "13-9" he hasn't been the same person.

That loss was as big of a red flag as there could have been. All Rich Rod had to do was beat a really bad Pitt team, coached by Dave Wannstedt, in Morgantown, and the Mountaineers likely would have ended up in the national title game. It was an epic choke job.

Slyder
01-04-2011, 10:56 PM
On a completely unrelated note, and I'm kinda wondering what some rational WVU fans would think about this assumption, but I kinda wonder if the loss to Pitt was the breaking point for Rodriguez. It just seems like ever since "13-9" he hasn't been the same person. I just think the guy has some issues to sort out and needs to do so before returning to coaching.

Everything from that point went downhill. Rodriguez's problem at Michigan I believe is he never had full support. At WVU he could have had a bad rebuilding year and still be looked upon as a favorite son and WVU still in lockstep with him, at Michigan he didnt have that. From the time he got there, there seems to have been a section of Michigan alumni that never liked him. Whether it be over the way he drug Michigan through the WVU buyout case or whatever.

Teams used that against him in recruiting and he was out of his recruiting base. It was nothing for WVU to go into Alabama (Pat White), Florida, Georgia, and the south and land some pretty big fish. I just don't think in this day you can go to places like that and get people to go to Michigan to play football. The perception of the big 10 is big power football while they could stay closer to home and play in a conference that is as much about speed as they are size in the SEC.

Don't get me wrong Rich made plenty of mistakes to cook his own goose but from the start he was a flashy headliner pick that got all the coverage Michigan wanted but then when you looked at the fit was like trying to take Barry Larkin and turn him into Tyrone Wheatley.

Although there was one job that I doubt he got looked at but could make some real interesting fit that I saw. I think Cryami would love him.

MWM
01-04-2011, 11:15 PM
There may have been some external factors involved in his failure in Ann Arbor, but if you watched the team play it was obvious they were poorly coached. He might be a good X & O guy, but there's more to coaching than that.

Slyder
01-04-2011, 11:32 PM
There may have been some external factors involved in his failure in Ann Arbor, but if you watched the team play it was obvious they were poorly coached. He might be a good X & O guy, but there's more to coaching than that.

I will admit that I did not see them play. It just seemed like for all intesive purposes UM besides immediately after the announcement never seemed to get behind him and that support vanished after the AD "retired".

Red Leader
01-05-2011, 01:26 AM
The Fox channel that broke the story is now saying that they reported that "the decision" to fire Rich Rodriguez had been finalized and that is what they reported (B.S.), and that they didn't report that Rich Rodriguez had already been fired (B.S.2). Whatever.

From everything I've read tonight, they are correct, the decision to fire Rich Rodriguez has been made and the reasons for carrying the announcement over until tomorrow is 1) because they are still negotiating a buyout and whether this will be a firing or a resignation (what difference does it make?), and 2) so Rich Rod has more time to prepare what he is going to tell his players and potentially any immediately affected coaches.

So, long story short, RichRod will be officially not be the Michigan coach tomorrow. It is believed that a replacement coach will be named less than 24 hours after that announcement is made. Rumor still has it that it could be Les Miles, Brady Hoke, or even still Jim Harbaugh, although the latter is considered very unlikely, but it's not completely dead yet.

Red Leader
01-05-2011, 11:06 AM
It is now official. Rich Rodriguez and his staff have been fired.

Still trying to figure out who all that "staff" includes. I hope it is not everyone or Michigan's recruiting class might as well just take a bye this year. I'm hoping at least RB coach Fred Jackson is retained, or will be brought back by whoever the new coach is.

Red Leader
01-05-2011, 11:18 AM
For those interested there is a press conference by UM's AD Dave Brandon on ESPN at 12:30 today to discuss "the state of the program".

I'm not sure whether Dave Mason's "We Just Disagree" will be played in the background. :)

My guess is that if RichRod and his 'entire' staff were let go, which is what was reported, that they already have a replacement either named or lined up.
That's the only way it makes sense to completely clean house.
It also tells me that the new coach being brought in will not be running the super-awesome slot ninja spread n shred offense.
That is good news on one hand. On the other hand, holy Moses are there going to be some mass-exodus transfers.
This ship is going to be like the Titanic to turn around, not a speed cruiser.

WVRed
01-05-2011, 11:22 AM
I'm not sure whether Dave Mason's "We Just Disagree" will be played in the background. :)

Maybe "You Raise Me Up"

15fan
01-05-2011, 01:08 PM
Yesterday, I suggested to a friend (who holds a pair of degrees from Michigan) that the Wolverines ought to look at Ken Niomatalolo. I think his style of play would hold up better in the Big 10/11/12 than the spread. He's used to being at an institution where academics are a priority. He's 2-1 vs. Notre Dame, 3-0 against Navy's biggest rival Army, and gave Ohio State everything it could handle in the 2009 opener. His teams are fundamentally sound and play together as a unit.

In short, he's pretty much the exact opposite of Rich Rod.

Red Leader
01-05-2011, 01:15 PM
What a cluster. The Michigan AD said in the press conference, "The national search for a head coach begins now."

Ummm, it's January 5th!?!? The search starts now? If the search starts now, we're screwed. You can pretty much kiss this recruiting class goodbye. Which puts rebuilding even further behind...

What a complete mess. It is NOT a good day to be a Michigan Wolverine. Again.

Sea Ray
01-05-2011, 02:09 PM
For those interested there is a press conference by UM's AD Dave Brandon on ESPN at 12:30 today to discuss "the state of the program".

I'm not sure whether Dave Mason's "We Just Disagree" will be played in the background. :)

My guess is that if RichRod and his 'entire' staff were let go, which is what was reported, that they already have a replacement either named or lined up.
That's the only way it makes sense to completely clean house.
It also tells me that the new coach being brought in will not be running the super-awesome slot ninja spread n shred offense.
That is good news on one hand. On the other hand, holy Moses are there going to be some mass-exodus transfers.
This ship is going to be like the Titanic to turn around, not a speed cruiser.

I just got an e-mail from a distraught UM alum who just watched the presser and says he can't believe Mich does not have a candidate lined up. He said it looks like their search is just beginning. This is way late to be doing this. Take it from me, A Tenn fan who just went through this a year ago, this is a rough time of year to be pulling this off. UT came out OK as they had huge contributions from true freshman this year but UM is on the clock.

LoganBuck
01-05-2011, 02:22 PM
I just got an e-mail from a distraught UM alum who just watched the presser and says he can't believe Mich does not have a candidate lined up. He said it looks like their search is just beginning. This is way late to be doing this. Take it from me, A Tenn fan who just went through this a year ago, this is a rough time of year to be pulling this off. UT came out OK as they had huge contributions from true freshman this year but UM is on the clock.

Didn't some of Lane Kiffin's recruits stay on board at UT last year? This is going to be ugly. Odds are whoever the coach is they won't be looking for players that fit Rodriguez's spread offense. That means the current recruits that are on board are probably going to leave, or have the scholarship offers revoked.

Sea Ray
01-05-2011, 02:31 PM
Didn't some of Lane Kiffin's recruits stay on board at UT last year? This is going to be ugly. Odds are whoever the coach is they won't be looking for players that fit Rodriguez's spread offense. That means the current recruits that are on board are probably going to leave, or have the scholarship offers revoked.

Absolutely. As for Mich, let's hope RR had some, if not a lot, of defensive recruits. The offensive scheme shouldn't affect them. The new coach will have to first and foremost retain the top Mich recruits already verbally commited. That's a must

Red Leader
01-05-2011, 02:33 PM
Didn't some of Lane Kiffin's recruits stay on board at UT last year? This is going to be ugly. Odds are whoever the coach is they won't be looking for players that fit Rodriguez's spread offense. That means the current recruits that are on board are probably going to leave, or have the scholarship offers revoked.

Yep, much easier and less messy for UT last year. They were generally keeping the same offensive system in place. UM has to totally switch back to UM football - Pro-Style. We're talking about two totally different athletes being recruited for those systems. Which means that all of the recruits that have given verbals, at least offensively, will likely drop. The defensive recruits they had verbals from might stick on, but they weren't that great anyway. Add on to that most of the talent on the roster is suited for a spread offense and most of those players will likely be making their way out of town now...a complete and total mess.

Funny defensive recruits were mentioned. That was one of the biggest pitfalls of RichRod, IMO. Every year he seemed to be solely interested in getting offensive skill players in to suit his spread offense. Ignoring defensive players. I bet we have 12-15 recuits that were projected to be 'slot' players. Seriously? You only need 3-4, at most. There were about 4-5 more in this class. He was finally getting some pressure in this recruiting class to address the lack of defensive recruits. There were CB's being added, but most of them were 5'8"-5'10" kids who could just run. He completely ignored LBs in all 3 years with the exception of Kenny Demens, who was basically a UM fan his whole life and his only dream was to play at UM. Same with Will Campbell on the D-Line. Other than that, the talent brought in on defense was absolutely ridicuous, especially for a team like UM that prides itself on it defense, or at least did.

I really think it would take a miracle for UM to switch back to a Pro Style offense and be competitive in the Big 10 in less than 3 years, under any coach. Throw in the fact that they're going to have to do that with basically a useless 2011 recruiting class and the odds get even longer.

It's ok, though. They will be switching back to the Pro Style smash-mouth football. Hopefully someday my kids will get to see a brand of Michigan football that they can be proud of.

Sea Ray
01-05-2011, 02:36 PM
I think Mich's improvement has to come on defense and special teams. Some of you are falling into the trap of overemphasizing offense

LoganBuck
01-05-2011, 03:03 PM
I think Mich's improvement has to come on defense and special teams. Some of you are falling into the trap of overemphasizing offense

Sure this is true. But Michigan has a bad group of defensive players on board already. The current recruiting class isn't very good either, and now the one thing that was kind of working, the offense, is going to be overhauled as well. This is bad. Michigan is probably looking at three more years of rebuilding. Colin Cowherd said it best this morning. This is a major rebuild, a high profile coach is not going to leave another top job for that mess.

Puffy
01-05-2011, 03:57 PM
Recruiting (from what I have heard): I hear Fisher (OL) is already looking around. I think he sees himself as a spread tackle. Justice Hayes probably stays. Brennen Beyer will probably look around but he probably ends up staying.

I would guess 95% of the recruits stay put. I'd be more worried about Denard. He sees him self as a QB and he is not a pro-style QB so he is going to be looking to transfer, IMO

IslandRed
01-05-2011, 04:47 PM
What a cluster. The Michigan AD said in the press conference, "The national search for a head coach begins now."

Ummm, it's January 5th!?!? The search starts now? If the search starts now, we're screwed. You can pretty much kiss this recruiting class goodbye.

Well, yes and no. There's absolutely no way they are just now, today, sounding out potential coaches. But they can't publicly admit they were talking to other coaches before getting around to firing the current one. It's bad form. We all know it happens anyway (often through intermediaries to maintain plausible deniability and all that), but the proprieties are still observed.

However, I doubt they actually had their coach as of this morning, so yeah, they're already scrambling with respect to recruiting.

Sea Ray
01-05-2011, 05:16 PM
Sure this is true. But Michigan has a bad group of defensive players on board already. The current recruiting class isn't very good either, and now the one thing that was kind of working, the offense, is going to be overhauled as well. This is bad. Michigan is probably looking at three more years of rebuilding. Colin Cowherd said it best this morning. This is a major rebuild, a high profile coach is not going to leave another top job for that mess.

I heard some of that rant and I think he was off base. The problem with RR isn't that he's not a Mich Man. It's that he's in over his head. He did a horrible job. I would even argue with Cowherd that RR is a great coach. Ask the W Va fans if he's a great coach. A great coach doesn't let the kicking game and defense get as bad as it did. No excuse for that. None. This is Mich we're talking about here, not UC or Bowling Green.

I disagree that he didn't get support from his administration. I'd argue they were far too patient with him. They stuck their neck out for him until the last couple of months.

He was a horrible hire from the get go.

Sea Ray
01-05-2011, 05:19 PM
Recruiting (from what I have heard): I hear Fisher (OL) is already looking around. I think he sees himself as a spread tackle. Justice Hayes probably stays. Brennen Beyer will probably look around but he probably ends up staying.

I would guess 95% of the recruits stay put. I'd be more worried about Denard. He sees him self as a QB and he is not a pro-style QB so he is going to be looking to transfer, IMO

According to scout.com they only have 14 recruits as it is. If they lose one, they've already lost more than 5% of their class.

But it does help that they're in the Big Ten. As it often the case, the Big Ten only has one team (OSU) in the top 25 in 2011 recruiting. The SEC has 9.

MWM
01-05-2011, 05:23 PM
But it does help that they're in the Big Ten. As it often the case, the Big Ten only has one team (OSU) in the top 25 in 2011 recruiting. The SEC has 9.

That makes the head to head matchup record over the past 10+ years all the more impressive for the Big Ten. :evil:

Sea Ray
01-05-2011, 05:27 PM
That makes the head to head matchup record over the past 10+ years all the more impressive for the Big Ten. :evil:

Yeah, must be the officiating or somethin'...

MWM
01-06-2011, 09:51 PM
This is a pretty good take on all the Harbaugh hoopla. I can understand why Michigan would really want him, but I certainly don't understand why NFL teams are so gaga over him.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14516878/nfl-has-lost-its-mind-over-harbaughmania

Slyder
01-06-2011, 09:56 PM
This is a pretty good take on all the Harbaugh hoopla. I can understand why Michigan would really want him, but I certainly don't understand why NFL teams are so gaga over him.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14516878/nfl-has-lost-its-mind-over-harbaughmania

Flavor of the month.

Unassisted
01-07-2011, 05:21 PM
Harbaugh just signed a 5-year/$25M deal with the 49ers.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/thehuddle/post/2011/01/49ers-set-to-announce-jim-harbaugh-as-next-head-coach/1

I doubt that Dave Brandon was prepared to open the wallet that wide, which explains his deflection at the time of the Rich Rod firing presser.

BuckeyeRed27
01-07-2011, 06:15 PM
This is a pretty good take on all the Harbaugh hoopla. I can understand why Michigan would really want him, but I certainly don't understand why NFL teams are so gaga over him.

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14516878/nfl-has-lost-its-mind-over-harbaughmania

Brian Kenny was talking about this on his radio show last night. Basically how Jim Harbaugh had one great season and two good ones and then all of the sudden will become one of the top paid coaches in the entire profession is pretty amazing.

MWM
01-08-2011, 01:57 AM
A Michigan alum friend on facebook who is as die hard as the come said that he was listening to live streaming radio out of Louisiana and they were reporting that Les Miles will be announced as the new Michigan coach within 48 hours.

Nowhere is really reporting it right now, so take it with a grain of salt.

LoganBuck
01-08-2011, 07:46 AM
A Michigan alum friend on facebook who is as die hard as the come said that he was listening to live streaming radio out of Louisiana and they were reporting that Les Miles will be announced as the new Michigan coach within 48 hours.

Nowhere is really reporting it right now, so take it with a grain of salt.

Yesterday around 2pm, 1460 out of Columbus, had a college football analyst, with a a heavy southern accent on, he was saying that he thought Miles would take the job.

MWM
01-08-2011, 09:35 AM
The LSU QB said that Les Miles told him yesterday that he's staying at LSU and hasn't even spoke to Michigan. He the rumors are "nonsense." This was posted an hour ago.

http://www.nola.com/lsu/index.ssf/2011/01/qb_jordan_jefferson_lsu_footba.html

Sea Ray
01-08-2011, 09:58 AM
There's a rumor bouncing around that Mich won't give Miles a sniff due to his involvement with former coach Gary Moeller's wife which led to his drinking problems and subsequent downfall. I don't know if that really happened or if it was a factor.

jojo
01-08-2011, 10:00 AM
I think the Midwest media would eat him alive. In Louisiana, he's just another bumpkin.

Are you kidding? Miles has averaged 10+ wins a season at LSU and the fan base are gathering with torches and pitchforks because he lost out on one of Louisiana's top ranked HS offensive lineman....

jojo
01-08-2011, 10:03 AM
I just got an e-mail from a distraught UM alum who just watched the presser and says he can't believe Mich does not have a candidate lined up. He said it looks like their search is just beginning. This is way late to be doing this. Take it from me, A Tenn fan who just went through this a year ago, this is a rough time of year to be pulling this off. UT came out OK as they had huge contributions from true freshman this year but UM is on the clock.

Mike Haywood is available.

dabvu2498
01-08-2011, 11:05 AM
Are you kidding? Miles has averaged 10+ wins a season at LSU and the fan base are gathering with torches and pitchforks because he lost out on one of Louisiana's top ranked HS offensive lineman....

Oh, I know. That National Championship is the only thing that saved his gig back in 08. And the LSU folks will be happy to point out they were 0-2 in triple OT games in that year.

cincrazy
01-11-2011, 01:46 PM
Miles has announced he's staying at LSU. Hellooooo Brady Hoke. And helloooooo 3-9 next season, and maybe for many more seasons to come. U of M is in a disastrous spot right now.

MWM
01-11-2011, 01:53 PM
This is big loss for Michigan. I was not on the Miles bandwagon 3 years ago, but I think he was the right guy now. The guy can recruit and he can recruit defense, their biggest deficiency. They need a name right now.

I don't know who the other top candidates are, but it looks like they could wind up rolling the dice. This is why you don't make massive mistakes like hiring Rich Rod. That was a colossal mistake at the time and they could be paying for it for years to come.

Oxblood
01-11-2011, 01:59 PM
Adios Rich Rod, Adios John Beilein.

bucksfan2
01-11-2011, 02:23 PM
This is big loss for Michigan. I was not on the Miles bandwagon 3 years ago, but I think he was the right guy now. The guy can recruit and he can recruit defense, their biggest deficiency. They need a name right now.

I don't know who the other top candidates are, but it looks like they could wind up rolling the dice. This is why you don't make massive mistakes like hiring Rich Rod. That was a colossal mistake at the time and they could be paying for it for years to come.

I don't really think that highly of Miles. He can recruit but IMO he is lacking as a game coach. He is your riverboat gambler and makes Marvin Lewis look like a savant when it comes to clock management. His National Championship team was a 2 loss team that underachieved throughout the season and got lucky because it was a down year in the NCAA. They kind of reminded me of the Alabama team this season. A team that is uber talented but lost too many games they shouldn't. They did steamroll my bucks, but that had been the usual for that team.

That Hoke guy seems like he is the front runner right now. But if I were a UM fan I would be a little hesitant. IMO its not necessarily a good idea to offer a guy his dream job that he actively covets. It reminds me of OSU when they were looking for a new head coach. Both Glen Mason and Chris Speliman openly campaigned for the job. It was a shock to many when the unlikely candidate of Jim Tressel was offered the job.

I don't think it will take a "Michigan Man" rather someone who is able to understand and grasp the tradition that goes along with the job. Rich Rod made mistakes in dismissing the tradition that goes along with Michigan football. The next coach who comes in can't do that.

LoganBuck
01-11-2011, 02:25 PM
I know some Ohio State fans that are chuckling. I think it is a darn shame, how badly this was mangled. The Big Ten needs Michigan to be good.

Where do you go from here?

pedro
01-11-2011, 02:35 PM
This is big loss for Michigan. I was not on the Miles bandwagon 3 years ago, but I think he was the right guy now. The guy can recruit and he can recruit defense, their biggest deficiency. They need a name right now.

I don't know who the other top candidates are, but it looks like they could wind up rolling the dice. This is why you don't make massive mistakes like hiring Rich Rod. That was a colossal mistake at the time and they could be paying for it for years to come.

Seems to me that Brandon may be a problem himself MWM.

Unassisted
01-11-2011, 04:09 PM
Hoke is the replacement:

http://www.mgoblue.com/sports/m-footbl/spec-rel/011111aab.html


ANN ARBOR, Mich. -- University of Michigan athletic director Dave Brandon announced today (Tuesday, Jan. 11) the hiring of Brady Hoke as the 19th coach in the 131-year history of Michigan football. Hoke arrives in Ann Arbor after spending the past eight seasons as a head coach at Ball State (2003-08) and San Diego State (2009-10).

15fan
01-11-2011, 04:36 PM
Brady Hoke?

Coaching staffs from Happy Valley to Lincoln are all trying to conceal their grins.

westofyou
01-11-2011, 04:48 PM
Brady Hoke?

Coaching staffs from Happy Valley to Lincoln are all trying to conceal their grins.

really?

It's not like Tressel or Schemblecher were from big programs once upon a time.

pedro
01-11-2011, 04:49 PM
Brady Hoke?

Coaching staffs from Happy Valley to Lincoln are all trying to conceal their grins.

I don't know much about him but I do remember the collective thud when Tressel was hired by OSU and that's worked out pretty well.

dabvu2498
01-11-2011, 04:57 PM
Schembechler was 40-17-3 at MU when hired by UM. Tressel: 135-57-2 with 4 I-AA championships for good measure.

Hoke: 47-50

Both Schembechler and Tressel are pretty dynamic personalities. Hoke doesn't much seem like it.

Gene Chizek would be a more valid comparison. Maybe?

MWM
01-11-2011, 04:59 PM
Honsetly, I think what they would be inheriting probably scared any other candidates off. That defense has no real talent and no recruits coming in. It's going to be hard to win much of anything the next couple of years and I think they all knew this.

However, i wonder if Les Miles will regret his decision in the next year or two. LSU is a great job and he's got what should be a great team coming back, but he's not exactly revered there and if next year's team doesn't deliver, he could find himself on the hot seat very quickly.

Cedric
01-11-2011, 05:02 PM
Honsetly, I think what they would be inheriting probably scared any other candidates off. That defense has no real talent and no recruits coming in. It's going to be hard to win much of anything the next couple of years and I think they all knew this.

However, i wonder if Les Miles will regret his decision in the next year or two. LSU is a great job and he's got what should be a great team coming back, but he's not exactly revered there and if next year's team doesn't deliver, he could find himself on the hot seat very quickly.
Lloyd Carr runs the ship up there. Les Miles was really never considered for this job and wasn't offered it according to Detroit Free Press.

Lloyd has a serious problem with Les and this was just a dog and pony show.

pedro
01-11-2011, 05:02 PM
Honsetly, I think what they would be inheriting probably scared any other candidates off. That defense has no real talent and no recruits coming in. It's going to be hard to win much of anything the next couple of years and I think they all knew this.

However, i wonder if Les Miles will regret his decision in the next year or two. LSU is a great job and he's got what should be a great team coming back, but he's not exactly revered there and if next year's team doesn't deliver, he could find himself on the hot seat very quickly.

I do wonder a bit about Miles' character after some of stuff I've read and heard about him. He obviously has some gravitas as a coach but I'm not sure how I really feel about him as a person.

Sea Ray
01-11-2011, 06:51 PM
However, i wonder if Les Miles will regret his decision in the next year or two. LSU is a great job and he's got what should be a great team coming back, but he's not exactly revered there and if next year's team doesn't deliver, he could find himself on the hot seat very quickly.

Do we know that Miles was offered the job and he declined?

MWM
01-11-2011, 08:07 PM
Nope, just an assumption. It's probably no coincidence that Hoke was announced pretty much as soon as Miles announced he was staying at LSU. I also don't see why the Michigan folks would fly down to Baton Rouge to meet with him just to not offer him the job. My guess is he said no.

Sea Ray
01-11-2011, 08:27 PM
Nope, just an assumption. It's probably no coincidence that Hoke was announced pretty much as soon as Miles announced he was staying at LSU. I also don't see why the Michigan folks would fly down to Baton Rouge to meet with him just to not offer him the job. My guess is he said no.

ESPN reported that Miles would have taken it if offered. My guess is Mich interviewed him as a courtesy and to explain face to face why he wasn't being chosen.

I didn't like either choice. I think they should have done the smaller school thing and picked off a young, energetic coach in the midwest like UC did with Brian Kelly and CMU. I wouldn't know Brady Hoke if he was next to me at Kroger but the reports I'm hearing from those who do know him are that he's not a step up from RR. That's too bad

pedro
01-11-2011, 08:48 PM
ESPN reported that Miles would have taken it if offered. My guess is Mich interviewed him as a courtesy and to explain face to face why he wasn't being chosen.

I didn't like either choice. I think they should have done the smaller school thing and picked off a young, energetic coach in the midwest like UC did with Brian Kelly and CMU. I wouldn't know Brady Hoke if he was next to me at Kroger but the reports I'm hearing from those who do know him are that he's not a step up from RR. That's too bad

OTOH, apparently guys like Charles Woodson and Tom Brady who played at Michigan while he was on staff there rave about him.

MWM
01-11-2011, 09:14 PM
ESPN reported that Miles would have taken it if offered. My guess is Mich interviewed him as a courtesy and to explain face to face why he wasn't being chosen.

I didn't like either choice. I think they should have done the smaller school thing and picked off a young, energetic coach in the midwest like UC did with Brian Kelly and CMU. I wouldn't know Brady Hoke if he was next to me at Kroger but the reports I'm hearing from those who do know him are that he's not a step up from RR. That's too bad

There's really no way to decipher if he's a step up over RR. Heck, I think anyone would be a step up at this point. I always thought RR was never near as good as the perception. I called RR being a disaster the day it happened. RR was a scheme guy, not necessarily someone who could coach players. In college that makes a big difference.

I think that's one thing that may work in Hoke's favor. He does have a pedigree of knowing how to coach players to play well. He didn't make his mark based on innovative schemes. Who knows how it will turn out, but I'm a bit more optimistic about him than others. For him it will all come down to recruiting. I think if he has players he can get them to play. That's a much better outlook than a guy like Ron Zook who's great at getting players but is clueless on how to coach them.

bucksfan2
01-12-2011, 08:15 AM
There's really no way to decipher if he's a step up over RR. Heck, I think anyone would be a step up at this point. I always thought RR was never near as good as the perception. I called RR being a disaster the day it happened. RR was a scheme guy, not necessarily someone who could coach players. In college that makes a big difference.

IMO RR was a guy who used a scheme with more talented players than his competition. On a year in year out basis at WVU he had more talent than all the other Big East teams. When he went to UM I didn't think his system would work at a traditional power. I didn't think the fans would adapt his offense and didn't thought a 3-3-5 defense would be a disaster in the Big 10. RR was a complete disaster at UM, both on the field and off the field. I can't think of a worse hire (that actually coached a season) than RR.


I think that's one thing that may work in Hoke's favor. He does have a pedigree of knowing how to coach players to play well. He didn't make his mark based on innovative schemes. Who knows how it will turn out, but I'm a bit more optimistic about him than others. For him it will all come down to recruiting. I think if he has players he can get them to play. That's a much better outlook than a guy like Ron Zook who's great at getting players but is clueless on how to coach them.

I really don't know one thing about Hoke. I also don't know if I would want a guy who "really really really wants" that coaching job. Hoke may be good but first and foremost make sure that the fans know he understands the tradition of UM football. If within the first few minutes of speaking he doesn't mention beating OSU and MSU then that would be a mistake. Not as egregious of a mistake as when RR said OSU wasn't that big of a deal.

Roy Tucker
01-12-2011, 08:45 AM
Brady Hoke may turn out OK. Like others have said, when Jim Tressel was hired, it was greeted with a collective yawn. Hoke is a midwest guy I think and "gets" what matters at UM.

But I still do remember when Tressel spoke at the half of an OSU basketball game not long after he was hired. He gave the days and the hours till the next Michigan game and beating them and there was no doubt about where his priorities were. He completely won over the OSU fan base that day and a new era of OSU football started.

Sea Ray
01-12-2011, 09:35 AM
OTOH, apparently guys like Charles Woodson and Tom Brady who played at Michigan while he was on staff there rave about him.

Who's "him"?

Sea Ray
01-12-2011, 09:42 AM
Again, I don't know much about Brady Hoke but here's what a cousin of mine wrote me about the hire. This relative is a UM alum and follows this sort of thing very closely:


Hoke is not a great hire.

This pretty much ruins Michigan for the next 5 years.

We are better next year then the decline begins.

Much is couched on who stays.

Recruiting couldn't have taken a worse hit.

I was much more in favor of KC Keeler at this point.

This kills the spread. Basically fires the S&C coach. Alienates one
of the top QBs ever at Michigan. After running off Mallet with RR.

If he is a typical UM alum then Hoke is starting at a bad point. He's got a lot of work to do

pedro
01-12-2011, 09:47 AM
Who's "him"?

Hoke

Sea Ray
01-12-2011, 09:52 AM
Nope, just an assumption. It's probably no coincidence that Hoke was announced pretty much as soon as Miles announced he was staying at LSU. I also don't see why the Michigan folks would fly down to Baton Rouge to meet with him just to not offer him the job. My guess is he said no.

The facts as we know them show that the job was never offered to Miles


Hoke? Despite successful head coaching stints at San Diego State and Ball State, the former Michigan assistant might get a lukewarm reception, too, after fans clamored to bring Jim Harbaugh or Les Miles back to their alma mater.

Michigan athletic director Dave Brandon picked Hoke as his new football coach Tuesday, insisting he was Plan A and not a backup option after Harbaugh left Stanford for the San Francisco 49ers and Miles stayed at LSU.

"The job was never offered to them," Brandon said in an interview with The Associated Press Tuesday after informing the team of his decision. "We did have different discussions with them that were helpful and positive."

So don't be too hard on Les if things don't go well for him at LSU. He didn't have a choice

Sea Ray
01-12-2011, 09:56 AM
Hoke

What exactly did Woodson and Brady say? The only thing I heard was typical raw, raw stuff like this from Woodson:


"I'm excited for Brady Hoke and even more excited for Michigan," Woodson, who won the Heisman Trophy and 1997 national championship at Michigan, wrote in a text message. "I'm glad this process is over and we can begin to restore the tradition and respect that was once Michigan."

That seems like a canned response from a UM alum who is a public figure

Hoosier Red
01-12-2011, 10:07 AM
@SeaRay, who is the quarterback that is being alienated? Robinson?

When IU hired its coach alot of people though Hoke would be the guy they should go after. A friend of mine pointed out that while his record was impressive, (47-50 is pretty good considering the waste lands he inherited at both jobs,) but he didn't exactly beat anyone he shouldn't have beaten. At Ball State he beat up on a bunch of MAC teams, but his two biggest wins in the 2008 season were Indiana and Navy. So it's not like he figured out a way to beat teams with better talent.

At Michigan that won't be as much of a problem eventually. Michigan just being Michigan can recruit well enough that he'll be able to get them back to respectability. But as far as being in the class of Iowa, Nebraska, Wisconsin, or Ohio State, that may be a while.

WVRed
01-12-2011, 10:26 AM
@SeaRay, who is the quarterback that is being alienated? Robinson?

When IU hired its coach alot of people though Hoke would be the guy they should go after. A friend of mine pointed out that while his record was impressive, (47-50 is pretty good considering the waste lands he inherited at both jobs,) but he didn't exactly beat anyone he shouldn't have beaten. At Ball State he beat up on a bunch of MAC teams, but his two biggest wins in the 2008 season were Indiana and Navy. So it's not like he figured out a way to beat teams with better talent.

At Michigan that won't be as much of a problem eventually. Michigan just being Michigan can recruit well enough that he'll be able to get them back to respectability. But as far as being in the class of Iowa, Nebraska, Wisconsin, or Ohio State, that may be a while.

That's going to be a problem, as you left out the one team that has passed Michigan for relevancy alone in their own state, and that is Sparty.

Michigan State has passed Michigan in that regard, and Dantonio is holding an edge right now in recruiting those players, the same way Tom Izzo does in basketball. I have a feeling that Michigan may be going the way of Notre Dame when it comes to national relevance.

Between Les Miles and Brady Hoke, Miles would have had the better chance of winning sooner at Michigan. He can adapt his offense to use spread players and has won with different style QB's (JaMarcus Russell or Matt Flynn). Hoke is going to be more of a traditional pro offense coach and its going to be a major overhaul to get Michigan back to where they can play at that level.

Which leads to my next point, how patient are Michigan fans going to be? I always say a coach deserves three years to get a program turned around but with trying to re-establish a pro offense it could be longer.

MWM
01-12-2011, 10:33 AM
The facts as we know them show that the job was never offered to Miles

So don't be too hard on Les if things don't go well for him at LSU. He didn't have a choice

That may be what truly happened, or it could be that the conversation went in a direction that the Michigan folks saw that Les would want things they weren't willing to give. Or, it could be that Hoke was their guy all along. But I don't think him not "officialy" being offered the job means that they didn't prefer him over Hoke. If they could have gotten Miles and went for Hoke instead, I think that's a big mistake.

westofyou
01-12-2011, 10:37 AM
Miles wanted to bring his assistants with him, 2 make between 600K and 800K, that was part of the reason UM might have wavered, I read that they likely offered him a low ball contract in hopes of saving some face for both sides. Let's also not forget that Brandon and Miles played on UM teams together, they have a history, and from what I've heard it's not really chummy.

Hoosier Red
01-12-2011, 10:47 AM
Those are all good points WVRed. I keep reading where Hoke is a hard and fast pro-style offense guy, but my perception of Ball State was they played a sort of spread with 3 WR's, an undersized TE in in Hill, and a running back who could take advantage of the smaller fronts caused by the passing attack. It wasn't the RichRod spread, but it wasn't exactly line everyone up in an I formation and ram it down their throats either.

I think it's a big leap to assume that he won't find a way to be successful with Robinson and/or Forcier.

Sea Ray
01-12-2011, 10:48 AM
@SeaRay, who is the quarterback that is being alienated? Robinson?



Yes.

Sea Ray
01-12-2011, 10:51 AM
That may be what truly happened, or it could be that the conversation went in a direction that the Michigan folks saw that Les would want things they weren't willing to give.



All indications are that Les wanted the job.

Sea Ray
01-12-2011, 10:53 AM
I think it's a big leap to assume that he won't find a way to be successful with Robinson and/or Forcier.

Sure but that's the thing. Can he keep Robinson and Forcier? These spread type players may start to bail

bucksfan2
01-12-2011, 11:17 AM
Which leads to my next point, how patient are Michigan fans going to be? I always say a coach deserves three years to get a program turned around but with trying to re-establish a pro offense it could be longer.

If he embraces tradition he will be fine. Rich Rod did himself no favor in irritating the fan base right away. He said that OSU (and MSU?) were just another game on the schedule. He gave #1 away to some third string CB until Braylon Edwards stepped in and nixed that. Apparently he didn't realize that #1 went to a good/great UM WR and that Edwards had a scholarship fund that enabled him to have veto power over who wore #1.

Sea Ray
01-12-2011, 11:25 AM
If he embraces tradition he will be fine. Rich Rod did himself no favor in irritating the fan base right away. He said that OSU (and MSU?) were just another game on the schedule. He gave #1 away to some third string CB until Braylon Edwards stepped in and nixed that. Apparently he didn't realize that #1 went to a good/great UM WR and that Edwards had a scholarship fund that enabled him to have veto power over who wore #1.

That sounds nutty. An ex-player should not have any control over his college team after he's gone.

bucksfan2
01-12-2011, 11:32 AM
That sounds nutty. An ex-player should not have any control over his college team after he's gone.

#1 was always given to a great WR. You had to gain Lloyd Carr's approval in order to be given the #1 jersey. After Edwards left he set up a scholarship fund and thought that scholarship fund he was on the "committee" who decided if a player was worthy or not of wearing that number.

Here is an article explaining it: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/205011-the-controversy-over-the-no-1-jersey-at-michigan

Hoosier Red
01-12-2011, 11:33 AM
I think in this respect, Braylon is a booster just like anyone else. He apparantly set the rules for his money. If UM didn't want it, they could have politely declined. To be honest, I think it's a good tradition for schools like UM and Syracuse to have their special numbers, maybe involving former players in the process helps keep that alive.

Sea Ray
01-12-2011, 11:56 AM
#1 was always given to a great WR. You had to gain Lloyd Carr's approval in order to be given the #1 jersey. After Edwards left he set up a scholarship fund and thought that scholarship fund he was on the "committee" who decided if a player was worthy or not of wearing that number.

Here is an article explaining it: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/205011-the-controversy-over-the-no-1-jersey-at-michigan

The author of that article agrees with me that the coach should control the uniforms, not a rich alum.

I still don't get this whole endowment thing. Supposedly it goes to the star WR who will wear #1. Well won't this kid be getting a scholarship and all expenses paid anyway? What more can this endowment give the kid? I must be missing something

WVRed
01-12-2011, 11:58 AM
Those are all good points WVRed. I keep reading where Hoke is a hard and fast pro-style offense guy, but my perception of Ball State was they played a sort of spread with 3 WR's, an undersized TE in in Hill, and a running back who could take advantage of the smaller fronts caused by the passing attack. It wasn't the RichRod spread, but it wasn't exactly line everyone up in an I formation and ram it down their throats either.

I think it's a big leap to assume that he won't find a way to be successful with Robinson and/or Forcier.

I think Forcier could work in a pro-system.

Robinson OTOH could be looking for a new team. If I were him though I would stick with Michigan and try to make it work under Hoke. Teams are starting to move away from the spread, including WVU who I would have thought to be a prime candidate for Robinson before they decided to go with the air raid offense under Holgorsen.

Unassisted
01-12-2011, 12:16 PM
Hoke tweeted this today (http://twitter.com/#!/BradyHoke/status/25225660142198785):
318 Days. #goblueNot nearly as bold a delivery or as prominent a forum as the parallel statement made by his predecessor, but probably necessary.

bucksfan2
01-12-2011, 12:24 PM
The author of that article agrees with me that the coach should control the uniforms, not a rich alum.

I still don't get this whole endowment thing. Supposedly it goes to the star WR who will wear #1. Well won't this kid be getting a scholarship and all expenses paid anyway? What more can this endowment give the kid? I must be missing something

It came from a WVU website so it may have been pro-Rodriguez but that really isn't the point.

If you make a sizable donation to a school you should be able to get a few things that you want. That is what Edwards did.

But beyond that every school has their sacred numbers. At OSU #2 is a highly sought after number. And the granddaddy of them all #45 is dangled out there every so often in order to get a top notch recruit. IMO when Rodriguez attempted to give away #1 it was a lack of understanding the tradition at Michigan.

IslandRed
01-12-2011, 12:34 PM
The author of that article agrees with me that the coach should control the uniforms, not a rich alum.

I still don't get this whole endowment thing. Supposedly it goes to the star WR who will wear #1. Well won't this kid be getting a scholarship and all expenses paid anyway? What more can this endowment give the kid? I must be missing something

A scholarship endowment is a gift to the school, not the scholarship recipient. Pulling a number out of thin air, let's say that every football scholarship Michigan awards costs the athletic department $25,000 a year. An endowed scholarship is a gift of money large enough that it can be invested and the return on investment is enough to cover the costs. Most big athletic departments have their scholarships endowed to varying degrees, and it's great when they can do so, because it means that money doesn't have to come out of annual operating expenses or booster fundraising.

So in Edwards' case, he probably told Michigan he'd give them enough money to endow a scholarship but he wanted some say in who got #1. Like the other guys said, then it becomes Michigan's decision to take it or don't.

Sea Ray
01-12-2011, 12:38 PM
A scholarship endowment is a gift to the school, not the scholarship recipient. Pulling a number out of thin air, let's say that every football scholarship Michigan awards costs the athletic department $25,000 a year. An endowed scholarship is a gift of money large enough that it can be invested and the return on investment is enough to cover the costs. Most big athletic departments have their scholarships endowed to varying degrees, and it's great when they can do so, because it means that money doesn't have to come out of annual operating expenses or booster fundraising.

So in Edwards' case, he probably told Michigan he'd give them enough money to endow a scholarship but he wanted some say in who got #1. Like the other guys said, then it becomes Michigan's decision to take it or don't.

Excellent explanation...:thumbup:

Hoosier Red
01-12-2011, 12:40 PM
The author of that article agrees with me that the coach should control the uniforms, not a rich alum.

I still don't get this whole endowment thing. Supposedly it goes to the star WR who will wear #1. Well won't this kid be getting a scholarship and all expenses paid anyway? What more can this endowment give the kid? I must be missing something

Yes, but that scholarship money comes from somewhere. You see this a great deal in academic scholarships. A person will endow a scholarship, but then they'll sit on the board that determines who gets that scholarship. If the school wanted to, they could just say, no thanks once you give us the money we decide where it goes, but then they'd of course have fewer scholarships to hand out.

This case does seem to be unique in that 1)It's not exactly an old tradition at Michigan anyway, and 2) Most athletes don't ask to be actively involved in the operations of the team after they're gone. Edwards did, UM probably told him what the suggested donation was for that kind of control, and Edwards gave it.

I think this went to more of a PR hit for Rodriguez then anything. You can forgive him for not embracing a tradition that was apparantly accidentally followed by all but one of its recipients, but because he didn't know and then didn't care to truly find out he cost himself some points.

RedsBaron
01-12-2011, 12:55 PM
Rich Rod is also being sued in WV regarding the sale of his former Morgantown house, with allegations that he didn't reveal a water leak at first and then wanted the purchasers to accept all responsibility for the leak, etc. (allegations in a civil complaint are not proof).
Someone that I know who was involved during the deposition of Rich Rod taken as part of WVU's suit against him a couple of years ago told me a few months ago that during a break in the deposition he asked Rich Rod and his lawyer if he could get them something to drink, since he was closer to the refreshments. He said Rich Rod wouldn't respond to him or even look at him. Instead, Rich Rod allegedly turned to his lawyer and curtly said: "tell him that I don't want anything."

pedro
01-12-2011, 01:10 PM
Rich Rod is also being sued in WV regarding the sale of his former Morgantown house, with allegations that he didn't reveal a water leak at first and then wanted the purchasers to accept all responsibility for the leak, etc. (allegations in a civil complaint are not proof).
Someone that I know who was involved during the deposition of Rich Rod taken as part of WVU's suit against him a couple of years ago told me a few months ago that during a break in the deposition he asked Rich Rod and his lawyer if he could get them something to drink, since he was closer to the refreshments. He said Rich Rod wouldn't respond to him or even look at him. Instead, Rich Rod allegedly turned to his lawyer and curtly said: "tell him that I don't want anything."

That doesn't surprise me RB. The guy gave every appearance of being a major jerk. As a Michigan fan I have to say his demeanor and constant excuses appalled me. I like this hire when they made it. How wrong I was.

15fan
01-12-2011, 02:59 PM
All indications are that Les wanted the job.

From an outsider who doesn't know any of the details, it seemed to me more like Miles was using it as leverage to get a better deal from his current employer.

Michigan's best teams generally had prime HS talent from NE Ohio. Tressel's had command of that pipeline for a while now. Hoke needs to figure out a way to put a hole or two into that pipeline.

I'm also curious to see where Rodriguez lands. At this point, I think he sits out a year, does some TV, and then looks to land an OC job when the churn starts again in 10-11 months.

BuckeyeRed27
01-12-2011, 03:07 PM
From an outsider who doesn't know any of the details, it seemed to me more like Miles was using it as leverage to get a better deal from his current employer.

Michigan's best teams generally had prime HS talent from NE Ohio. Tressel's had command of that pipeline for a while now. Hoke needs to figure out a way to put a hole or two into that pipeline.

I'm also curious to see where Rodriguez lands. At this point, I think he sits out a year, does some TV, and then looks to land an OC job when the churn starts again in 10-11 months.

RichRod will get another HC job. He wasn't the right fit at Michigan, but he does have a system that will work at a lot of programs. He will get a HC job at a Big East or ACC program probably next year I would guess.

westofyou
01-12-2011, 03:15 PM
RR reminds me of George Allen, has a popular approach to the game, can be successful in the right situation, but has the personality that kills him in the end, in short not a people person.

Yachtzee
01-12-2011, 04:49 PM
I don't know much about him but I do remember the collective thud when Tressel was hired by OSU and that's worked out pretty well.

I guess it depends on your perspective. Tressel may not have been a big name nationally when OSU hired him, but he was wildly popular in the northern part of Ohio because he came from an Ohio coaching family, had experience at OSU and had spent years running a successful program at YSU. He was also known not to be the type of coach to chase big money jobs around (one of the biggest problems with college coaching today seems to be the tendency of coaches to hop from job to job after a few years chasing bigger money without having to really build a program).

One of the biggest complaints about John Cooper was that he was an outsider who had no concept of Buckeye tradition and the importance of the Michigan game. He seemed to treat Michigan as if it were another game on the schedule and always lost. There was a lot of fear in some Buckeye circles that the school would once again look for a coach with no background at OSU. When Tressel was named as a candidate, those who were familiar with him were hoping and praying he would get the job. They wanted an Ohio guy who would work hard to beat Michigan after so many years of watching Cooper rack up big seasons only to fall flat against the Wolverines.

dabvu2498
01-12-2011, 04:55 PM
Hoke tweeted this today (http://twitter.com/#!/BradyHoke/status/25225660142198785): Not nearly as bold a delivery or as prominent a forum as the parallel statement made by his predecessor, but probably necessary.

Just guessing, but I'd say Hoke might show up at tonight's home basketball game... against...

westofyou
01-12-2011, 05:10 PM
Just guessing, but I'd say Hoke might show up at tonight's home basketball game... against...

he is, I heard Drew Sharp of the Freep on the radio say he was being introduced at halftime tonight

Unassisted
01-12-2011, 05:26 PM
he is, I heard Drew Sharp of the Freep on the radio say he was being introduced at halftime tonightInteresting. According to a tweet from a Dispatch reporter who watched the presser, he said "I don't think so, somebody else did that script," meaning Tressel and RR.

Also, it turns out the Twitter account I quoted before is a fake. When asked about it at the presser, Hoke said "I'm on Twitter?"

paintmered
01-12-2011, 06:45 PM
Dantonio totally did this when he arrived at UC. Except he promised to beat Miami.

Yeah, he was thinking big time...

traderumor
01-13-2011, 06:47 AM
Hoke tweeted this today:


318 Days. #goblue
Not nearly as bold a delivery or as prominent a forum as the parallel statement made by his predecessor, but probably necessary.

Then there's this: Days since Michiganís last victory over Ohio State in football:
2609

cincrazy
01-13-2011, 06:19 PM
#1 was always given to a great WR. You had to gain Lloyd Carr's approval in order to be given the #1 jersey. After Edwards left he set up a scholarship fund and thought that scholarship fund he was on the "committee" who decided if a player was worthy or not of wearing that number.

Here is an article explaining it: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/205011-the-controversy-over-the-no-1-jersey-at-michigan

I can't stand Braylon Edwards, but did anyone catch the player introductions during the Colts-Jets game last week? When Edwards announced his name and where he was from, he said "Braylon Edwards, Lloyd Carr's University of Michigan." I can't stand Edwards, like I said, but I liked that comment.

As a Buckeye fan, I really hope Hoke gets Michigan back on its feet. It's simply not the same.

Roy Tucker
01-14-2011, 01:09 PM
I'd think this is good news for UM...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/01/13/robinson.staying.ap/

RedsBaron
01-14-2011, 01:38 PM
I'd think this is good news for UM...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/football/ncaa/01/13/robinson.staying.ap/

Yes it is.

traderumor
01-15-2011, 04:28 PM
I can't stand Braylon Edwards, but did anyone catch the player introductions during the Colts-Jets game last week? When Edwards announced his name and where he was from, he said "Braylon Edwards, Lloyd Carr's University of Michigan." I can't stand Edwards, like I said, but I liked that comment.

As a Buckeye fan, I really hope Hoke gets Michigan back on its feet. It's simply not the same.Lloyd Carr? Try "Bo Schembechler's U of M" and he's onto something.

Homer Bailey
01-16-2011, 04:01 AM
Lloyd Carr? Try "Bo Schembechler's U of M" and he's onto something.

Maybe because he played for Lloyd Carr?

cincrazy
01-16-2011, 12:53 PM
Lloyd Carr? Try "Bo Schembechler's U of M" and he's onto something.

No disrespect towards Schembechler, a great coach, but let's not sneeze at what Lloyd Carr accomplished. The man accomplished something Schembechler never was able to in winning a national champsionship.

Tony Cloninger
01-16-2011, 01:05 PM
I agree, but the perception is that it's the best place in the world. I wouldn't live in San Diego if I was paid handsomely to do so. I lived there a year and that was enough for me. Weather is unbelievable though.


What was wrong with San Diego? Have hardly ever gone there and I have lived in LA for 30 years.

MWM
01-16-2011, 02:43 PM
What was wrong with San Diego? Have hardly ever gone there and I have lived in LA for 30 years.

You could ask the same question about any city in the US. Some people like living in each place, and some don't. There's nothing wrong with SD, it's just not for me. But I do see why a lot of people love the place.

traderumor
01-16-2011, 03:14 PM
Maybe because he played for Lloyd Carr?
Well, sure. But Lloyd Carr only carried the torch on the relay after Shembechler got him an insurmountable lead. I always like to look at the trailblazer rather than the settler that reaped the rewards when making such references.

Just like tOSU football still is "Woody Hayes' tOSU"

Homer Bailey
01-16-2011, 03:19 PM
Well, sure. But Lloyd Carr only carried the torch on the relay after Shembechler got him an insurmountable lead. I always like to look at the trailblazer rather than the settler that reaped the rewards when making such references.

Just like tOSU football still is "Woody Hayes' tOSU"

Braylon Edwards, when introducing where he went to school, names the school and the coach he played for. You're really over analyzing this.

Tony Cloninger
01-17-2011, 11:03 AM
You could ask the same question about any city in the US. Some people like living in each place, and some don't. There's nothing wrong with SD, it's just not for me. But I do see why a lot of people love the place.

OK. Just wondering since I don't go down there at all really but everyone raves about it that visits there.

MWM
01-17-2011, 12:08 PM
OK. Just wondering since I don't go down there at all really but everyone raves about it that visits there.

No doubt. I love it as a place to visit. It wasn't my cup of tea as a place to live, that's all. People who live in SoCal are going to love San Diego. I think it's more about SoCal not being a good fit for me as opposed to San Diego specifically. But I get why people love SoCal.

bucksfan2
01-17-2011, 12:18 PM
OK. Just wondering since I don't go down there at all really but everyone raves about it that visits there.

Expense and traffic would be my two reasons. Also while the climate is nice it really doesn't get "hot". It stays pretty mild all season long. It can be a good thing but I was also wearing jeans and a fleece attending a San Diego Padres game in Late May.

traderumor
01-17-2011, 04:49 PM
Braylon Edwards, when introducing where he went to school, names the school and the coach he played for. You're really over analyzing this.Except that wasn't the point of the original poster. Maybe you're underanalyzing it.

cincrazy
01-17-2011, 05:28 PM
Except that wasn't the point of the original poster. Maybe you're underanalyzing it.

I wasn't necessarily trying to compare Carr to Schembechler. Clearly Bo is Bo, nobody can match what he did at Michigan when you consider the number of years and the excellence. I was only simply stating that I could see why Braylon would say it's Lloyd Carr's University of Michigan, seeing as how Michigan was last successful when he reigned over the football program.

traderumor
01-17-2011, 06:16 PM
I wasn't necessarily trying to compare Carr to Schembechler. Clearly Bo is Bo, nobody can match what he did at Michigan when you consider the number of years and the excellence. I was only simply stating that I could see why Braylon would say it's Lloyd Carr's University of Michigan, seeing as how Michigan was last successful when he reigned over the football program.That's fair and I got that. But I still think Bo was UM's Messiah and should get his due in that context, while Lloyd was just an apostle--important, but not the cornerstone, just to provide another analogy for my opinion.

But the real question with that analogy, is RR the anti-Christ or just a false prophet? ;)

pedro
01-17-2011, 06:43 PM
That's fair and I got that. But I still think Bo was UM's Messiah and should get his due in that context, while Lloyd was just an apostle--important, but not the cornerstone, just to provide another analogy for my opinion.

But the real question with that analogy, is RR the anti-Christ or just a false prophet? ;)

He's Mao.

He didn't believe in their "religion", was a megalomaniac, and promoted a system that was doomed to failure.

15fan
01-17-2011, 08:08 PM
At this point, would it be appropriate to change the thread title to "Bienvenidos Brady Hoke"?

Sea Ray
01-17-2011, 09:47 PM
Sportswriter Rob Parker was on a Sunday sports show in Detroit last night and he said that according to his sources Les Miles turned down the Mich job, not once but twice. After turning then down initially, Mich came back with a better offer and he turned 'em down again.

Parker sounded underwhelmed by the Hoke choice. He said there were so many better choices out there.

He sure has his work cut out for him recruiting wise. Their top PK recruit has now dropped as has their top OL recruit. They're now down to ten verbal commits. They have 18 scholarships to give

bucksfan2
01-18-2011, 08:09 AM
Sportswriter Rob Parker was on a Sunday sports show in Detroit last night and he said that according to his sources Les Miles turned down the Mich job, not once but twice. After turning then down initially, Mich came back with a better offer and he turned 'em down again.

Parker sounded underwhelmed by the Hoke choice. He said there were so many better choices out there.

He sure has his work cut out for him recruiting wise. Their top PK recruit has now dropped as has their top OL recruit. They're now down to ten verbal commits. They have 18 scholarships to give

Jim Tressel was a less than stellar choice as well. Couple that with the fact that Tressel was used to recruiting D2 players instead of the top notch players.

Hoke has his work cut out for him recruiting wise. IMO he needs to hire a recruiting coordinator. He has some midwest roots (Ball State) but it will be very interesting to see his hauls the first years in the program.

15fan
01-18-2011, 08:47 AM
The difference with Tressel is that other than a couple years coaching at Syracuse in the early 80s, he was Ohio through and through. Grew up in Ohio. Went to college in Ohio. Coached in Ohio (Akron, OSU & Youngstown State). He was a name and face that wasn't a stranger to very many HS programs around the state. People in the NE part of Ohio, which is very fertile recruiting territory, all knew him. With that background, he was able to plug the leak that had allowed top shelf Ohio HS talent (names like Grbac, Woodson, Howard, etc) to go to Ann Arbor.

Hoke obviously has some ties to Michigan and the Midwest. But right now, he's coming in as second fiddle in his own state to Mark Dantonio. He's got to make up a lot of ground on the recruiting front if he's going to be the guy to turn around UM.

Sea Ray
01-18-2011, 08:57 AM
IMO he needs to hire a recruiting coordinator. He has some midwest roots (Ball State) but it will be very interesting to see his hauls the first years in the program.

He needs some asst coaches first

MWM
01-18-2011, 11:02 AM
Hoke is actually from Dayton originally. He coached for almost 10 years in Michigan and Toledo before going to Oregon for a while. Then he came back to coach at Michigan for 7 years and then Ball State for 6. He may not have as strong ties as Tressel did, but they're stronger than some may think coaching in some capacity in Ohio or Michigan for 20 years.

His brother is the secondary coach for the Chicago Bears. Don't know how much that helps, but it can't hurt.

Revering4Blue
01-18-2011, 04:01 PM
New U-M offensive coordinator Al Borges will adapt to Denard Robinson

http://detnews.com/article/20110114/SPORTS0201/101140352/1131/New-U-M-offensive-coordinator-Al-Borges-will-adapt-to-Denard-Robinson


"I think the best thing when I talk to him is emphasizing that regardless of where I've been, it's not about me, and that we're creating this thing from ground up and the quarterback spearheads what we're going to do on offense," Borges, 55, told The News on Thursday. "You've got Denard, who we're going to keep at quarterback, and we're going to wean our team into some of the pro-style concepts, but we're not going to lose what he's capable of. I'm not smart, but I'm not dumb enough to not know that. He's got a skill we're going to exploit."

Robinson, a first-year starter as a sophomore in Rodriguez's spread-option offense, became the first quarterback in Division I history to both rush and pass for 1,500 yards in a season.

"What I will tell him is I coached two first-round (NFL quarterback draft picks in Cade McNown and Jason Campbell), and we accommodated them," Borges said. "We gave them the vehicle for success. They drove it, and they drove it well."

pedro
01-20-2011, 02:41 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/news/story?id=6035187

ANN ARBOR, Mich. -- Baltimore Ravens defensive coordinator Greg Mattison is leaving to fill the same role on Brady Hoke's new staff at Michigan.

Mattison was also the defensive coordinator for the Wolverines during the 1995 and 1996 seasons.

sounds like Hoke is putting a good staff together.

15fan
01-20-2011, 02:54 PM
Yep. That definitely sounds like a solid hire.

He's not bringing Ray Lewis with him, is he?

MWM
01-20-2011, 06:10 PM
Yep. That definitely sounds like a solid hire.

He's not bringing Ray Lewis with him, is he?

Ray Lewis could never get into Michigan. :evil: