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Hondo
01-05-2011, 05:37 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/01/cubs-close-to-trading-for-matt-garza.html?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=twitterfeed

QUOTE

The Cubs are close to trading for Rays righty Matt Garza, reports Gordon Wittenmyer of the Chicago Sun-Times.

QUOTE

Brewers get Greinke.
Cubs get Garza.
Reds get Willis.

Welcome to the Walt and Bob Show! Hope that playoff Revenue helped out your portfolio's!

brm7675
01-05-2011, 06:01 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/01/cubs-close-to-trading-for-matt-garza.html?utm_medium=facebook&utm_source=twitterfeed

QUOTE

The Cubs are close to trading for Rays righty Matt Garza, reports Gordon Wittenmyer of the Chicago Sun-Times.

QUOTE

Brewers get Greinke.
Cubs get Garza.
Reds get Willis.

Welcome to the Walt and Bob Show! Hope that playoff Revenue helped out your portfolio's!

Exactly HOW would be adding Garza improve our team? Plus according to that site Major League sources tell David Kaplan of CSNChicago.com that the teams have discussed Garza, but other names have not been exchanged. Though the Cubs are willing to part with talent for the right-hander, the Rays would have to be overwhelmed to move him, Kaplan reports. to me this says they have talked no deal, plus it sounds like it is going to cost the Cubs, so where is the big deal in this? Garza is no better then any pitcher we presently have on our SP rotation.

Hondo
01-05-2011, 06:23 PM
Exactly HOW would be adding Garza improve our team? Plus according to that site Major League sources tell David Kaplan of CSNChicago.com that the teams have discussed Garza, but other names have not been exchanged. Though the Cubs are willing to part with talent for the right-hander, the Rays would have to be overwhelmed to move him, Kaplan reports. to me this says they have talked no deal, plus it sounds like it is going to cost the Cubs, so where is the big deal in this? Garza is no better then any pitcher we presently have on our SP rotation.

You are not even getting it.

It is about IMPROVING the Roster. Not about Garza at this point...

Say it with me BDSM...

Improvment

brm7675
01-05-2011, 06:43 PM
You are not even getting it.

It is about IMPROVING the Roster. Not about Garza at this point...

Say it with me BDSM...

Improvment

Adding players does NOT equal improving ones roster...:thumbup:

Hondo
01-05-2011, 07:05 PM
Adding players does NOT equal improving ones roster...:thumbup:

If you really think my point was to just add players... There is something wrong with you...

brm7675
01-05-2011, 07:24 PM
If you really think my point was to just add players... There is something wrong with you...

that is your point. you want Walt to 'add' somebody. Well if there is NO one out there to add that significantly improves your team, what is the GM to do? Just add a player for adding sake? There has been no one on the FA market that we could have added that either we could afford or would improve our team. Trade wise, again of those players moved, none of them significantly would improve our team and depending on whom and how much may have hurt our team. I am all for adding talent that helps our team, but when it's not available, I would rather not make a move.

davereds24
01-05-2011, 07:38 PM
You are not even getting it.

It is about IMPROVING the Roster. Not about Garza at this point...

Say it with me BDSM...

Improvment

What is improving?

If it has to do with comedy, then you are right the Cubs are good at that.

Natty Redlocks
01-05-2011, 09:02 PM
I'm pretty sure this was refuted; I doubt the Cubs add Garza. I for one am glad the Reds aren't just throwing resources at marginal improvements just to placate the chicken littles.

Vottomatic
01-05-2011, 09:22 PM
I get it. The Reds have neglected to SERIOUSLY address their own weaknesses. Meanwhile, other teams in the NL Central are making SERIOUS strides.

Meanwhile, the Reds make WEAK attempts by signing Dontrelle Willis, Jeremy Hermida, and considering Fred Lewis, all who have seriously struggled or not put up impacting numbers.

How about acquiring Choo or Ellsbury or Brett Gardner as a SERIOUS leadoff hitter?
How about acquiring a quality hitter to hit behind Votto?
How about acquiring a Cliff Lee-like type pitcher who could be our ace come playoff time?

No. As usual, Walt and Bob are content with weak and cheap stopgaps.

It won't surprise me to see one or two teams in the NL Central pass us this year.

MikeThierry
01-05-2011, 09:50 PM
I wouldn't be so quick to jump on Walt. From an outsiders perspective, I think the Reds have enough to stay competitive all season long. If what Walt did in St. Louis was any indication, he will probably add a piece at the trade deadline if the Reds need it. Your offense will still be good and your pitching will be competitive on a nightly basis. If you make it to the playoffs, then it becomes a bit iffy matching your team against other playoff teams.

Jack Burton
01-05-2011, 10:01 PM
Garza's a chump.

arkimadee
01-05-2011, 10:03 PM
I sure wish trades would stop getting made so I don't have to come on here and read you moaning about how bad our front office is. If there are problems with the team I'm sure they will be addressed. Remember you can play games and then make trades. Trading deadline isn't until 7-31. Just have faith in our front office, they got us to the playoffs last year, I'm sure they know what they are doing more than you do.

Hondo
01-05-2011, 10:22 PM
I sure wish trades would stop getting made so I don't have to come on here and read you moaning about how bad our front office is. If there are problems with the team I'm sure they will be addressed. Remember you can play games and then make trades. Trading deadline isn't until 7-31. Just have faith in our front office, they got us to the playoffs last year, I'm sure they know what they are doing more than you do.

It isn't about other teams making trades to improve their rosters...

It is about the Reds F.O. not doing anything to improve the weakness' on the Ball Club.

Hondo
01-05-2011, 10:22 PM
I get it. The Reds have neglected to SERIOUSLY address their own weaknesses. Meanwhile, other teams in the NL Central are making SERIOUS strides.

Meanwhile, the Reds make WEAK attempts by signing Dontrelle Willis, Jeremy Hermida, and considering Fred Lewis, all who have seriously struggled or not put up impacting numbers.

How about acquiring Choo or Ellsbury or Brett Gardner as a SERIOUS leadoff hitter?
How about acquiring a quality hitter to hit behind Votto?
How about acquiring a Cliff Lee-like type pitcher who could be our ace come playoff time?

No. As usual, Walt and Bob are content with weak and cheap stopgaps.

It won't surprise me to see one or two teams in the NL Central pass us this year.

Good Post.

bounty37h
01-06-2011, 11:14 AM
Wonder if the mods will ever break down and make Hondo and BRM get a room and fight it out, this battle of words is getting tiresome.

brm7675
01-06-2011, 11:55 AM
I get it. The Reds have neglected to SERIOUSLY address their own weaknesses. Meanwhile, other teams in the NL Central are making SERIOUS strides.

Meanwhile, the Reds make WEAK attempts by signing Dontrelle Willis, Jeremy Hermida, and considering Fred Lewis, all who have seriously struggled or not put up impacting numbers.

How about acquiring Choo or Ellsbury or Brett Gardner as a SERIOUS leadoff hitter?
How about acquiring a quality hitter to hit behind Votto?
How about acquiring a Cliff Lee-like type pitcher who could be our ace come playoff time?

No. As usual, Walt and Bob are content with weak and cheap stopgaps.

It won't surprise me to see one or two teams in the NL Central pass us this year.

Wow where to start. First you assume players like Choo and Ellsbury or Garnder are available or if available are available at a fair price. We have a quality hitter to hit behind Votto, his name is Jay Bruce. How many Cliff Lee's are out on the market to go get? Oh wait...NONE. What teams in teh NLC have improved themselves to pass the Reds yet? Oh wait...NONE....

brm7675
01-06-2011, 11:56 AM
It isn't about other teams making trades to improve their rosters...

It is about the Reds F.O. not doing anything to improve the weakness' on the Ball Club.

You can't improve if there is no one out there to get, why can't you see that?

Hondo
01-06-2011, 02:08 PM
Wonder if the mods will ever break down and make Hondo and BRM get a room and fight it out, this battle of words is getting tiresome.

I am thinking of not replying to him anymore...

Hi, how are you? :)

arkimadee
01-06-2011, 02:23 PM
You can't improve if there is no one out there to get, why can't you see that?

Exactly. Just because we made the playoffs last year doesn't mean that the Reds can afford to make trades for "big" name players that are going to demand huge salaries. I understand the Reds had weak points last year. I think the young team maturing is going to fill many of those weak points. For example, I think Drew Stubbs will be a fine leadoff hitter. He struggled last year but at the end he was starting to mature and hit the ball. He was basically a rookie last year.

Everyone is all up in arms over our left field situation. Don't forget we got a guy on the bench that everyone was crying over last year because of lack of PT. Chris Heisey. I would much rather the Reds stick with him than go out and get a washed up guy that's going to want more money.

As far as adding a starting a pitcher goes, I really don't see a reason why.
We can't afford the so called "game changers" like Cliff Lee. It would be too much of a gamble to give Brandon Webb 2 or 3 million because he hasn't proven his arm is ok yet. The last I heard he was still struggling. They instead took there chances on a much cheaper Dontrell Willis that at this point has a better chance at reviving his career than Brandon Webb.

The bottom line is that we have a young, promising, maturing team with an outstanding farm system. Why not let them to continue to grow together. It's the formula that won the division for us last year and I think it's the formula that is going to get us farther in the playoffs this year. This all of course is my own humble opinion. 11 Weeks until opening day :)

Hondo
01-06-2011, 02:39 PM
Exactly. Just because we made the playoffs last year doesn't mean that the Reds can afford to make trades for "big" name players that are going to demand huge salaries. I understand the Reds had weak points last year. I think the young team maturing is going to fill many of those weak points. For example, I think Drew Stubbs will be a fine leadoff hitter. He struggled last year but at the end he was starting to mature and hit the ball. He was basically a rookie last year.

Everyone is all up in arms over our left field situation. Don't forget we got a guy on the bench that everyone was crying over last year because of lack of PT. Chris Heisey. I would much rather the Reds stick with him than go out and get a washed up guy that's going to want more money.

As far as adding a starting a pitcher goes, I really don't see a reason why.
We can't afford the so called "game changers" like Cliff Lee. It would be too much of a gamble to give Brandon Webb 2 or 3 million because he hasn't proven his arm is ok yet. The last I heard he was still struggling. They instead took there chances on a much cheaper Dontrell Willis that at this point has a better chance at reviving his career than Brandon Webb.

The bottom line is that we have a young, promising, maturing team with an outstanding farm system. Why not let them to continue to grow together. It's the formula that won the division for us last year and I think it's the formula that is going to get us farther in the playoffs this year. This all of course is my own humble opinion. 11 Weeks until opening day :)

The Reds could have traded for Zach Greinke. He was out there. That would have been a nice addition to the Rotation.

You think Willis has a better chance of reviving his career then Webb? Oh my... I know Shoulders are tough but Webb wasn't a flame thrower anyway and throws ground balls...

That statement in itself is confounding.

brm7675
01-06-2011, 02:44 PM
The Reds could have traded for Zach Greinke. He was out there. That would have been a nice addition to the Rotation.

You think Willis has a better chance of reviving his career then Webb? Oh my... I know Shoulders are tough but Webb wasn't a flame thrower anyway and throws ground balls...

That statement in itself is confounding.

But would the addition of Greinke really improved the team overall? Whose progress would he have stunted? Given his contract costs how would that have impacted on the team? To me adding Greinke would have been a luxury, not a need. As for Willis, it's a no risk deal, while Webb there are higher costs, but there is potential for higher return. I also think Webb is more SP while Willis is being viewed as bullpen material. I just don't see pitching as a top need right now for this franchise, there are other issues that take priority.

Hondo
01-06-2011, 02:58 PM
But would the addition of Greinke really improved the team overall? Whose progress would he have stunted? Given his contract costs how would that have impacted on the team? To me adding Greinke would have been a luxury, not a need. As for Willis, it's a no risk deal, while Webb there are higher costs, but there is potential for higher return. I also think Webb is more SP while Willis is being viewed as bullpen material. I just don't see pitching as a top need right now for this franchise, there are other issues that take priority.

Yes. This team should have a Payroll of at least 95-100 Million, to be competetive with the Cardinals, Brewers, and Astros payrolls...

Not even mentioning the Cubs whose payroll is quite higher...

I am not saying if you have a higher payroll for the sake of spending money, but more like the Twins have done with retaining quality players and now they have a 100 Million Dollar Payroll...

brm7675
01-06-2011, 03:01 PM
Yes. This team should have a Payroll of at least 95-100 Million, to be competetive with the Cardinals, Brewers, and Astros payrolls...

Not even mentioning the Cubs whose payroll is quite higher...

I am not saying if you have a higher payroll for the sake of spending money, but more like the Twins have done with retaining quality players and now they have a 100 Million Dollar Payroll...

just wondering what you are basing your belief on that the Reds budget should be that high?

Hondo
01-06-2011, 03:12 PM
just wondering what you are basing your belief on that the Reds budget should be that high?

To be competetive with the Astros, Cardinals, and Brewers... and I am not talking about to compete with them...

If the Royals would have added Zach Greinke and his 13.5 Million... The payroll would be at 90-91 Million right now...

THats what I mean. Pin point certain quality players and put them together as a nucleous...

Not just throw 5 million at player Jeff Francis, and 8 Million to Vlad Guerrero just to spend more money... But to really add pieces that make sense and keep the payroll the same as what other clubs are spending... Like the payroll will be 90-100 Million in 2 years anyway so why not be there earlier... Because at that time chances are the Cards, Brewers wil be around 120 Million.

brm7675
01-06-2011, 03:18 PM
To be competetive with the Astros, Cardinals, and Brewers... and I am not talking about to compete with them...

If the Royals would have added Zach Greinke and his 13.5 Million... The payroll would be at 90-91 Million right now...

THats what I mean. Pin point certain quality players and put them together as a nucleous...

Not just throw 5 million at player Jeff Francis, and 8 Million to Vlad Guerrero just to spend more money... But to really add pieces that make sense and keep the payroll the same as what other clubs are spending... Like the payroll will be 90-100 Million in 2 years anyway so why not be there earlier... Because at that time chances are the Cards, Brewers wil be around 120 Million.

So do you believe our owner isn't spending enough and is pocketing the extra monies? What is a fair profit share for ownership? Do you believe the Reds brought in more then 100 million last year in total revenue? I mean sure it's great to want your team to spend that kind of monies, but given the past 20+ years for this franchise, is it fair to demand that big of a jump in payroll after just 1 winning season? Also isn't more important to get the best out of your investment, I mean you don't have to spend with the Jones to be competivite with them.

bounty37h
01-06-2011, 03:49 PM
I am thinking of not replying to him anymore...

Hi, how are you? :)

Haha, doing well Hondo, doing well :beerme:

arkimadee
01-06-2011, 04:15 PM
The Reds could have traded for Zach Greinke. He was out there. That would have been a nice addition to the Rotation.

You think Willis has a better chance of reviving his career then Webb? Oh my... I know Shoulders are tough but Webb wasn't a flame thrower anyway and throws ground balls...

That statement in itself is confounding.

Your obsession with Zach Grienke is confounding.

Hondo
01-06-2011, 04:19 PM
Your obsession with Zach Grienke is confounding.

Yeah, see you on Opening Day sir.

Hondo
01-07-2011, 01:29 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=5998431

It's almost official.


QUOTE

The Tampa Bay Rays and Chicago Cubs have agreed to a multi-player deal that will bring right-handed pitcher Matt Garza to Chicago, according to a major league source.

QUOTE

I am not at all implying that the Reds should have Traded for Matt Garza...

But look at the Quality of Players the other teams are acquiring...

Brewers get Greinke
Cubs get Garza

Reds get Renteria
Reds get Hermida
Reds get Willis

The Reds give Cairo a 100% raise and a 2 years Deal

The Front Office and Ownership in paticular is making it for a Dissapointing Off Season...

Not filling one Need in the Starting Lineup or Pitching Staff...

Lead Off
SS
Left Field

Lefty Reliever
Long Man Reliever

brm7675
01-07-2011, 02:14 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/chicago/mlb/news/story?id=5998431

It's almost official.


QUOTE

The Tampa Bay Rays and Chicago Cubs have agreed to a multi-player deal that will bring right-handed pitcher Matt Garza to Chicago, according to a major league source.

QUOTE

I am not at all implying that the Reds should have Traded for Matt Garza...

But look at the Quality of Players the other teams are acquiring...

Brewers get Greinke
Cubs get Garza

Reds get Renteria
Reds get Hermida
Reds get Willis

The Reds give Cairo a 100% raise and a 2 years Deal

The Front Office and Ownership in paticular is making it for a Dissapointing Off Season...

Not filling one Need in the Starting Lineup or Pitching Staff...

Lead Off
SS
Left Field

Lefty Reliever
Long Man Reliever

Great the Cubs will now go from being a horrible team to just a bad team. The Reds meanwhile were a very good team who at the minimum are still a very good team and if players like Bruce/Stubbs/Leake/Wood and such continue to progress we might make it into the category of great team. So don't see how these additions but the other teams vault them over the Reds at this point.

Hondo
01-07-2011, 03:06 PM
Great the Cubs will now go from being a horrible team to just a bad team. The Reds meanwhile were a very good team who at the minimum are still a very good team and if players like Bruce/Stubbs/Leake/Wood and such continue to progress we might make it into the category of great team. So don't see how these additions but the other teams vault them over the Reds at this point.

You still dont get it.

It is not about the Cubs going from worse to bad...

It's about the opportunity the Reds have to step on the throats of teams and they are just going out signing Hermida, Willis, and Renteria...

If the Reds have gotten Greinke from the Royals, the Brewers would just be okay with the additon of Marcum and the Reds would be trumping all those in the Division...

But thats in the past... If the Reds would have swung a trade for Reyes from the Mets, that would have been an Impact Move...

brm7675
01-07-2011, 03:19 PM
You still dont get it.

It is not about the Cubs going from worse to bad...

It's about the opportunity the Reds have to step on the throats of teams and they are just going out signing Hermida, Willis, and Renteria...

If the Reds have gotten Greinke from the Royals, the Brewers would just be okay with the additon of Marcum and the Reds would be trumping all those in the Division...

But thats in the past... If the Reds would have swung a trade for Reyes from the Mets, that would have been an Impact Move...

I don't believe adding Greinke would have made us better because it would have cost us talent, so at best we would be the same. When in the past would hte Reds made a Reyes type of deal? Also, what makes you think the Mets will part with Reyes and if they will do you think it will be for nothing?

Vottomatic
01-07-2011, 03:51 PM
Brewers sold 2,000 season ticket packages in 2 days after acquiring Greinke. That comes to approximately $7M dollars. They will probably sell alot more season ticket packages and probably pay for his salary this year.

Bob and Walt don't think like that.

Hondo
01-07-2011, 03:57 PM
Brewers sold 2,000 season ticket packages in 2 days after acquiring Greinke. That comes to approximately $7M dollars. They will probably sell alot more season ticket packages and probably pay for his salary this year.

Bob and Walt don't think like that.

You and I should go to some Reds Games this year... Great Minds think alike...

webbbj
01-07-2011, 04:03 PM
according to cubs fans they are disappointed in this trade. they believe they gave up too much.

which is another point, the reds cant just trade for $.70 on the dollar. if they make a trade their not gonna over pay or trade out of desperation which is a good sign.

brm7675
01-07-2011, 04:06 PM
Brewers sold 2,000 season ticket packages in 2 days after acquiring Greinke. That comes to approximately $7M dollars. They will probably sell alot more season ticket packages and probably pay for his salary this year.

Bob and Walt don't think like that.

When you team sucks and you make a big bold move you will see ticket sales increase. when you are a winning team and add a piece you might see some bump, but not that big of one, sorry Greinke would not have sold that many more seats here in cincy this upcoming season.

Hondo
01-07-2011, 04:09 PM
When you team sucks and you make a big bold move you will see ticket sales increase. when you are a winning team and add a piece you might see some bump, but not that big of one, sorry Greinke would not have sold that many more seats here in cincy this upcoming season.

Saying that makes no sense...

brm7675
01-07-2011, 04:12 PM
Saying that makes no sense...

There is no way in cincy that he would have increased ticket sales, he just isn't that big of a name to most fans, and we already have a great pitching staff, it may have added some, but not on the level it did in Milwaukee.

Hondo
01-07-2011, 04:22 PM
There is no way in cincy that he would have increased ticket sales, he just isn't that big of a name to most fans, and we already have a great pitching staff, it may have added some, but not on the level it did in Milwaukee.

So you're saying people in Milwaukee know who Greinke is, but the people in Cincinnati don't?

Makes sense... :dunno:

SYCMiniBus
01-07-2011, 04:26 PM
So you're saying people in Milwaukee know who Greinke is, but the people in Cincinnati don't?

Makes sense... :dunno:

If people in Cincinnati aren't excited about a 90 win team who is returning all key players then adding Greinke wasn't going to get them excited either.

Sure the Reds could have added a big name, and possibly could have afforded it, but would it have been right. That is the key, heck maybe they could have outbid Washington for Jayson Werth, but it wouldn't have made it logical for the organization.

They probably could put together a trade package to get Justin Upton, but it wouldn't be "right" for the organization to do so.

When you are the Reds, you don't pick the year, the year picks you. You can't mortgage a good part of your future (prospects) or payroll (overspending) to get a player to try to pick the year. When you do that it will end up hurting your team long term over the course of 10-15 years, not simply one year.

Would it be great if things work out and they could land an impact player, heck yes, but making a move to improve comes at a cost somewhere, and if that cost 2-3-4 years later is greater than the benefit this year it is a bad move, and that is is what Walt has to consider before he does anything.

Hondo
01-07-2011, 04:28 PM
If people in Cincinnati aren't excited about a 90 win team who is returning all key players then adding Greinke wasn't going to get them excited either.

Sure the Reds could have added a big name, and possibly could have afforded it, but would it have been right. That is the key, heck maybe they could have outbid Washington for Jayson Werth, but it wouldn't have made it logical for the organization.

They probably could put together a trade package to get Justin Upton, but it wouldn't be "right" for the organization to do so.

When you are the Reds, you don't pick the year, the year picks you. You can't mortgage a good part of your future (prospects) or payroll (overspending) to get a player to try to pick the year. When you do that it will end up hurting your team long term over the course of 10-15 years, not simply one year.

Would it be great if things work out and they could land an impact player, heck yes, but making a move to improve comes at a cost somewhere, and if that cost 2-3-4 years later is greater than the benefit this year it is a bad move, and that is is what Walt has to consider before he does anything.

Look it up. The Reds drew 200,000 less fans to the Ballpark in 2010 than 2009

SYCMiniBus
01-07-2011, 04:31 PM
Look it up. The Reds drew 200,000 less fans to the Ballpark in 2010 than 2009

Historically, and you can feel free to look this one up, it is always the year after a good season that draws the fans the most. That is reality, 1991 drew more than 1990, 2000 drew more than 1999. That is just how it works in this town, just as 2011 will draw more than 2010.

brm7675
01-07-2011, 04:43 PM
So you're saying people in Milwaukee know who Greinke is, but the people in Cincinnati don't?

Makes sense... :dunno:

A) yes to a degree I think Brewer fan might be up more on him then Reds fan
B) Adding Greinke improved a horrible pitching staff, that is a big deal, had he come here it wouldn't have been a major improvement because of what we already have.
C) Adding Scott Rolen who is a semi local boy didn't add huge ticket sales.

Hondo
01-07-2011, 05:42 PM
A) yes to a degree I think Brewer fan might be up more on him then Reds fan
B) Adding Greinke improved a horrible pitching staff, that is a big deal, had he come here it wouldn't have been a major improvement because of what we already have.
C) Adding Scott Rolen who is a semi local boy didn't add huge ticket sales.

Rolen was 35 and is in the Twilight of his career...

When Rolen went to St.Louis in 2000, in his Prime they sold ticks...

How can you even compare the 2?

JKam
01-07-2011, 06:18 PM
Any idea of how good the prospect haul for Tampa Bay was?

Tampa got pitcher Chris Archer, outfielder Brandon Guyer, catcher Robinson Chirinos, shortstop Hak-Ju Lee and outfielder Sam Fuld. ESPN claims that none of these guys are top end prospects, but some of them have some good numbers in low minor league ball which of course can be deceiving.

And if this is a good prospect haul, might it be time to measure the worth of someone like Cueto, Bailey or Volquez? With the pitching depth in the majors now, maybe the Reds should consider getting some good pitching prospects for a year or two down the line because right now there are no really good prospects in AAA.

brm7675
01-07-2011, 06:21 PM
Rolen was 35 and is in the Twilight of his career...

When Rolen went to St.Louis in 2000, in his Prime they sold ticks...

How can you even compare the 2?

I am willing to bet more Reds fans know of and had a clue of who Rolen was when he was gotten by the Reds while I bet if you ask most "joe" Reds fans, they wouldn't know much about Grienke outside of maybe he is a pitcher. Fans go by what they know, not by what a player is brining to the team.

Hondo
01-07-2011, 06:48 PM
I am willing to bet more Reds fans know of and had a clue of who Rolen was when he was gotten by the Reds while I bet if you ask most "joe" Reds fans, they wouldn't know much about Grienke outside of maybe he is a pitcher. Fans go by what they know, not by what a player is brining to the team.

Greinke only won the Cy Young Award... Yeah that wasn't news.

brm7675
01-07-2011, 06:57 PM
Greinke only won the Cy Young Award... Yeah that wasn't news.

It was an AL cy young and was a year or so back. Again people may recognize the name but he wouldn't be a seat filler in Cincy, the average fan just woulnd't know that much about him, and depending on WHOM the Reds would have had to give up, the fans may have in fact been a bit pissed off.

Hondo
01-07-2011, 07:07 PM
It was an AL cy young and was a year or so back. Again people may recognize the name but he wouldn't be a seat filler in Cincy, the average fan just woulnd't know that much about him, and depending on WHOM the Reds would have had to give up, the fans may have in fact been a bit pissed off.

The Reds would not have had to given up anyone off the Major League Roster besides possibly Edinson Volquez, possibly Janish since he is so good... then it would have been at least Heisey, Maloney, Joseph, Cozart, and probably Mesaraco...

757690
01-07-2011, 07:11 PM
The Brewers, Cards and Cubs have emptied out their organizations to make a run for it this year. They now might have the three worst minor league systems when it comes to prospects in the majors.

Maybe one of them wins the division in 2011, but the Reds look to be dominant in a very weak division for years to come.

brm7675
01-07-2011, 07:40 PM
The Reds would not have had to given up anyone off the Major League Roster besides possibly Edinson Volquez, possibly Janish since he is so good... then it would have been at least Heisey, Maloney, Joseph, Cozart, and probably Mesaraco...

I will take Volquez over Greinke in a heart beat. i am NOT giving up mesaraco as part of a package.

brm7675
01-07-2011, 07:40 PM
The Brewers, Cards and Cubs have emptied out their organizations to make a run for it this year. They now might have the three worst minor league systems when it comes to prospects in the majors.

Maybe one of them wins the division in 2011, but the Reds look to be dominant in a very weak division for years to come.

thank you...:thumbup:

Hondo
01-07-2011, 07:44 PM
I will take Volquez over Greinke in a heart beat. i am NOT giving up mesaraco as part of a package.

I wouldn't... History back that up.

brm7675
01-07-2011, 07:51 PM
I wouldn't... History back that up.

I think if Edision can get back to 100% you could see the next coming of pedro Martinez

MikeThierry
01-07-2011, 08:38 PM
The Brewers, Cards and Cubs have emptied out their organizations to make a run for it this year. They now might have the three worst minor league systems when it comes to prospects in the majors.

Maybe one of them wins the division in 2011, but the Reds look to be dominant in a very weak division for years to come.

I wouldn't be so sure on that. The Cards are rebuilding after emptying their coffers for Holliday. They have had a couple of good drafts since then. Plus St. Louis is one of those towns where players tend to want to play so even if we have a depleted system, there are free agents that would want to play here. Besides, the a good number of the players on the Cards are still young or in their prime. I expect another 5 years worth of decent production from Pujols and Holliday as well.

I wouldn't also overlook teams like the Astros in the division. They are very young and will probably be very good in a couple of years. By no means will the Reds be a lock to dominate the division.

757690
01-07-2011, 08:47 PM
I wouldn't be so sure on that. The Cards are rebuilding after emptying their coffers for Holliday. They have had a couple of good drafts since then. Plus St. Louis is one of those towns where players tend to want to play so even if we have a depleted system, there are free agents that would want to play here. Besides, the a good number of the players on the Cards are still young or in their prime. I expect another 5 years worth of decent production from Pujols and Holliday as well.

I wouldn't also overlook teams like the Astros in the division. They are very young and will probably be very good in a couple of years. By no means will the Reds be a lock to dominate the division.

If I were a Cardinal fan, I would feel the same way. ;)

Not to state the obvious, but the future of the Cardinal franchise rides on how the Pujols situation is settled. There's a lot of ways for it play out, and until it does, it's difficult to predict the Card's future, imo.

MikeThierry
01-07-2011, 08:53 PM
Saying it right now, the deal gets done within 3 weeks.

ezluke
01-07-2011, 09:31 PM
I think if Edision can get back to 100% you could see the next coming of pedro Martinez

Brm we have disagreed before and I respect your obvious love for all things Reds but come on, Volquez has had 1/2 of a very good year. Trust me when I say this but if Walt could have traded Volquez for Greinke he would've done it in a heart beat .

757690
01-08-2011, 12:02 AM
Brm we have disagreed before and I respect your obvious love for all things Reds but come on, Volquez has had 1/2 of a very good year. Trust me when I say this but if Walt could have traded Volquez for Greinke he would've done it in a heart beat .

I can think of 27 million reason why he wouldn't.

Vottomatic
01-08-2011, 04:57 AM
Here's my personal perspective.

When the season ended, I was fired up about next season. I was all prepared to buy about 20 sets of tickets for 20 games next year.

After watching what has transpired during the Winter Meetings, with the Brewers and it seems all the other teams making moves TO IMPROVE THEIR TEAMS, and the Reds sitting still, I'm not ready to make that investment.

I seriously think the Reds are only the third best team in the NL Central right now.

Insert negative condescending opinions here:

DannyB
01-08-2011, 08:56 AM
Any idea of how good the prospect haul for Tampa Bay was?

Tampa got pitcher Chris Archer, outfielder Brandon Guyer, catcher Robinson Chirinos, shortstop Hak-Ju Lee and outfielder Sam Fuld. ESPN claims that none of these guys are top end prospects, but some of them have some good numbers in low minor league ball which of course can be deceiving.

And if this is a good prospect haul, might it be time to measure the worth of someone like Cueto, Bailey or Volquez? With the pitching depth in the majors now, maybe the Reds should consider getting some good pitching prospects for a year or two down the line because right now there are no really good prospects in AAA.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/the-matt-garza-deal-from-the-cubs-perspective/

The most significant chip is Archer, who, again, ranked No. 1 on Baseball America’s Cubs prospects list. Kevin Goldstein ranked him No. 3.

Someone on that blog compared Garza to Harang.

SYCMiniBus
01-08-2011, 03:19 PM
Here's my personal perspective.

When the season ended, I was fired up about next season. I was all prepared to buy about 20 sets of tickets for 20 games next year.

After watching what has transpired during the Winter Meetings, with the Brewers and it seems all the other teams making moves TO IMPROVE THEIR TEAMS, and the Reds sitting still, I'm not ready to make that investment.

I seriously think the Reds are only the third best team in the NL Central right now.

Insert negative condescending opinions here:

So now Greinke is worth 20 wins? That is a completely ridiculous statement. I mean the Reds still have the best rotation with St. Louis and one of the better offenses, maybe behind Milwaukee but still a very good one.

How on earth the Reds go from best to third best because the Brewers got Greinke really makes no sense.

MikeThierry
01-08-2011, 04:53 PM
Syc, I think the points that Vottomatic brought up are valid. The most underrated move, in my opinion, in the offseason was them acquiring Shaun Marcum. The guy had a 3.85 ERA in the AL East. Very underrated pitcher and should pitch well in the NL Central. They also added some bullpen help. They are a vastly better team from last year. Even if Grienke isn't a stud like he was a couple of years ago, they still have Marcum, Youvani, and Wolfe. Along with that offense they have, I think people have a right to be concerned over what Milwaukee might do this year.