PDA

View Full Version : Who will see more playing time?



brm7675
01-07-2011, 10:47 AM
Okay the debate over the signing of Edgar I believe comes down to 1 thing and that is playing time. If as Walt says, Edgar is your infield backup, then it's an okay signing, however, if as history shows us, Dusty prefers vets over younger players then Edgar who is way past his prime is going to be the everyday starting SS which is not good for this team. So it's time to vote, at seasons end, baring injuries, whom do you think will see more playing time at SS?

DirtyBaker
01-07-2011, 12:01 PM
Because it's up to Dusty and not us, probably Renteria. I just hope Janish plays the Sunday specials.

Hondo
01-07-2011, 12:30 PM
For those of you who see Janish starting, you're in for a long season, although I think Janish will get day games for sure...

wlf WV
01-07-2011, 01:03 PM
I thought Janish was given job to lose,or is my memory sputtering.Eventually,if this is true your integrity will come into question and that is not worth a small part of team concept. But my gut tells me Renteria was told he would have playing time,or else I don't believe he would have signed.

brm7675
01-07-2011, 01:11 PM
I thought Janish was given job to lose,or is my memory sputtering.Eventually,if this is true your integrity will come into question and that is not worth a small part of team concept. But my gut tells me Renteria was told he would have playing time,or else I don't believe he would have signed.

Janish was told that last season then they signed Orlando C. He was told that again this offseason and now this. The signing isn't the problem, the problem is in who as the poll question asks will see the most playing time.

Kingspoint
01-07-2011, 02:14 PM
This poll question is moot.

From Rotoworld w/ Rotoworld comments:

Edgar Renteria told reporters Thursday that he will be the full-time shortstop in Cincinnati this season.

He's certainly being paid like one. According to SI.com's Jon Heyman, Renteria will make $2.1 million in guaranteed salary this season and can earn another $900,000 through performance-based incentives. Now the question becomes: what will the Reds do with the slick-fielding Paul Janish?

Kingspoint
01-07-2011, 02:18 PM
Just like going into last season, it was easy to see than Janish was not only head-and-shoulders better Defensively than Cabrera (at the most important Defensive position on the field), but that he would have a better On-Base-Percentage.

The same thing goes this year.

Renteria has a good couple of games in the World Series and all of a sudden he's a better Shortstop that Paul Janish. That's typical Dusty Baker thinking and typical thinking that ignore all facts.

I'm sure that the ORG is all over this one with every fact possible showing what a stupid move this is by Baker. (I won't for a second put this on Walt, as it's too obvious that this is Baker's signing. Walt, being the good man that he is, won't throw Baker under the bus and will claim that it was his idea, but that's just impossible as it goes against everything that Walt stands for with his philosophy of play.)

brm7675
01-07-2011, 02:22 PM
Just like going into last season, it was easy to see than Janish was not only head-and-shoulders better Defensively than Cabrera (at the most important Defensive position on the field), but that he would have a better On-Base-Percentage.

The same thing goes this year.

Renteria has a good couple of games in the World Series and all of a sudden he's a better Shortstop that Paul Janish. That's typical Dusty Baker thinking and typical thinking that ignore all facts.

I'm sure that the ORG is all over this one with every fact possible showing what a stupid move this is by Baker. (I won't for a second put this on Walt, as it's too obvious that this is Baker's signing. Walt, being the good man that he is, won't throw Baker under the bus and will claim that it was his idea, but that's just impossible as it goes against everything that Walt stands for with his philosophy of play.)

Sorry but last time I checked, Walt not Dusty is the GM. To me it's simple, this is Walt's screw up big time. I don't care what Dusty "wants" a good GM will give his manager the players "HE" feels will help the team with "some" imput from the manager. This bone head move is all on Walt...all he had to say was NO WAY. What could Dusty do?

New York Red
01-07-2011, 02:36 PM
Obviously the organization isn't comfortable handing the every day starting spot to Janish at this point, and I don't have a problem with that. When you aren't 100% confident in your first option, it's always good to have a pretty good second option. Whether or not Janish or Renteria is the starter, I'm glad we have a backup plan.

Hondo
01-07-2011, 02:46 PM
Obviously the organization isn't comfortable handing the every day starting spot to Janish at this point, and I don't have a problem with that. When you aren't 100% confident in your first option, it's always good to have a pretty good second option. Whether or not Janish or Renteria is the starter, I'm glad we have a backup plan.

If Renteria can be healthy and play in 140 Games which he hasn't done in 3 years... The Team is Better...

My point is that all these so so players the Reds are retaining, their combined Salaries could have been towards 1 Player who fills a Need.

mroby85
01-07-2011, 02:52 PM
It will be Renteria, they're just saying Janish at this point. I think Renteria will play when he can for the most part, maybe being spelled by Janish because of age kinda like they did with Rolen last year, giving him breaks to rest up. At least that's what I think will happen.

markymark69
01-07-2011, 03:11 PM
Sorry but last time I checked, Walt not Dusty is the GM. To me it's simple, this is Walt's screw up big time. I don't care what Dusty "wants" a good GM will give his manager the players "HE" feels will help the team with "some" imput from the manager. This bone head move is all on Walt...all he had to say was NO WAY. What could Dusty do?

You said on another post - that if Walt couldn't stand up to Dusty and tell him that the Reds were going to stop bringing in old-washed players who couldn't play or words to that effect than he needs to go - which is it? A Walt move or a Dusty move and Walt can't stand up to him?

Kingspoint
01-07-2011, 03:16 PM
Sorry but last time I checked, Walt not Dusty is the GM. To me it's simple, this is Walt's screw up big time. I don't care what Dusty "wants" a good GM will give his manager the players "HE" feels will help the team with "some" imput from the manager. This bone head move is all on Walt...all he had to say was NO WAY. What could Dusty do?

Don't be blind to the facts, man.

Corey Patterson.

Jerry Hairston.

Orlando Cabrera.

Miguel Cairo.

Edgar Renteria.

Baker likes guys he's managed before are are close to, especially if they can't hit and can't field, while always playing them at the most needed Defensive position on the field.

I'm sure I'm missing a person or two from this list.

*****2 + 2 = 4

Kingspoint
01-07-2011, 03:17 PM
If Renteria can be healthy and play in 140 Games which he hasn't done in 3 years... The Team is Better...

My point is that all these so so players the Reds are retaining, their combined Salaries could have been towards 1 Player who fills a Need.


.....better chance for missing the playoffs.

Kingspoint
01-07-2011, 03:18 PM
If I was Janish, I'd walk. I'd refuse to report. His talents are being wasted.

He's not a superstar or a future All-Star at any point in his career. He has a small window to prove himself, and that window of opportunity is being wasted in a REDS uniform by the King of wasting talent, Dusty Baker.

Kingspoint
01-07-2011, 03:21 PM
Obviously the organization isn't comfortable handing the every day starting spot to Janish at this point, and I don't have a problem with that. When you aren't 100% confident in your first option, it's always good to have a pretty good second option. Whether or not Janish or Renteria is the starter, I'm glad we have a backup plan.

There's nothing obvious about that. There are no dots to connect to suggest that.

The dots that connect is another in a long line of dots of ex-Baker buddies that need a job desperately (San Fran would only offer the guy a backup job at $1M), that Baker is willing to use his clout with Castellini and over-ride Walt's decision to go with the better player in Janish.

Hondo
01-07-2011, 03:25 PM
There's nothing obvious about that. There are no dots to connect to suggest that.

The dots that connect is another in a long line of dots of ex-Baker buddies that need a job desperately (San Fran would only offer the guy a backup job at $1M), that Baker is willing to use his clout with Castellini and over-ride Walt's decision to go with the better player in Janish.

Kingspoint,

I highly doubt this is Dusty pulling a Corey Patterson...

This is ALL Walt as Walt has history with Renteria from 1999-2004

That's just the way it is...

brm7675
01-07-2011, 03:46 PM
Obviously the organization isn't comfortable handing the every day starting spot to Janish at this point, and I don't have a problem with that. When you aren't 100% confident in your first option, it's always good to have a pretty good second option. Whether or not Janish or Renteria is the starter, I'm glad we have a backup plan.

You call this a backup plan?

brm7675
01-07-2011, 03:49 PM
You said on another post - that if Walt couldn't stand up to Dusty and tell him that the Reds were going to stop bringing in old-washed players who couldn't play or words to that effect than he needs to go - which is it? A Walt move or a Dusty move and Walt can't stand up to him?

this stupid move falls soley on Walt. Either Walt has lost it and needs to retire, or his passion for former Cards is scary or he doesn't have the you know whats to stand up to his manager and tell him he is not bringing in a washed up SS to play over Janish. In any case I can't blame Dusty for this move, anyone with a brain knows Dustys love for the vet over the youth and that he will play any vet he can over youth everyday and twice on sunday. Walt should know better...but I guess he doesn't.:(

brm7675
01-07-2011, 03:50 PM
Don't be blind to the facts, man.

Corey Patterson.

Jerry Hairston.

Orlando Cabrera.

Miguel Cairo.

Edgar Renteria.

Baker likes guys he's managed before are are close to, especially if they can't hit and can't field, while always playing them at the most needed Defensive position on the field.

I'm sure I'm missing a person or two from this list.

*****2 + 2 = 4

Last time I checked managers don't sign players. They can talk with the GM over whom they would like to have or whom they feel can help the team, but I would hope the GM has the final word.

brm7675
01-07-2011, 03:52 PM
If I was Janish, I'd walk. I'd refuse to report. His talents are being wasted.

He's not a superstar or a future All-Star at any point in his career. He has a small window to prove himself, and that window of opportunity is being wasted in a REDS uniform by the King of wasting talent, Dusty Baker.

I agree, if I was Janish I would be in Walt's office first thing monday morning and tell him very nicely either release me or I don't report.

Quatitos
01-07-2011, 03:53 PM
For Dusty's Take on the situation: http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2011/01/07/baker-no-quarterback-controversy-at-short/


“I don’t know. We don’t have a quarterback controversy at short. Everybody plays on my team. They’re both going to play. Janish is younger. Edgar is more experienced. Janish deserves a chance to be my shortstop.”


Dusty also says he plans on playing Renteria at different positions, so atleast in Dusty's mind Renteria is more penciled into the backup role at the moment (can very easily change, but that is how it seems).

Couple that with the fact it is a lot more likely for Renteria to have a stint or two on the DL, it is looking like Janish will end up with more playing time at shortstop this season, in my opinion.

webbbj
01-07-2011, 04:40 PM
For Dusty's Take on the situation: http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2011/01/07/baker-no-quarterback-controversy-at-short/



Dusty also says he plans on playing Renteria at different positions,

like what positions? 3B?

Quatitos
01-07-2011, 05:21 PM
like what positions? 3B?

2B and I would imagine the second backup for a corner infield spot if Cairo is hurt or both need to play at a time. Assuming Brandon's normal playing time Renteria could see 10-15 starts at 2B and he could also possibly see about 5-10 games at a corner spot.

brm7675
01-07-2011, 05:25 PM
2B and I would imagine the second backup for a corner infield spot if Cairo is hurt or both need to play at a time. Assuming Brandon's normal playing time Renteria could see 10-15 starts at 2B and he could also possibly see about 5-10 games at a corner spot.

All I know is i feel sorry for any fans that attends Reds home games and get stuck watching this guy play and take time away from real talented players.