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View Full Version : Reds Off Season Officially "DONE"



Hondo
01-11-2011, 05:34 PM
QUOTE

"I think I'm done," said Reds GM Walt Jocketty to MLB.com's Mark Sheldon. "[Today's Fred Lewis and Edgar Renteria signings] are a couple of pieces we felt we needed."

QUOTE

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/01/quick-hits-tigers-pujols-padres.html

That's it...

Way to go Walt... See ya on Opening Day

I am disgusted. A season full of Hope & Optimism has been befallen by an offseason of bareness and desolate Management.

Vottomatic
01-11-2011, 06:08 PM
That's some smart decision-making regarding telling the public you're "done" wheeling and dealing when many Reds fans have newfound doubts about next season.

Good job Walt. We were all counting on you and you let us down.

will5979
01-11-2011, 06:31 PM
That's some smart decision-making regarding telling the public you're "done" wheeling and dealing when many Reds fans have newfound doubts about next season.

Good job Walt. We were all counting on you and you let us down.

Lets face it, Cincy hasn't had good ownership since Marge Schott before she went senile. Piss on you Jocketty and Castenelli.

Votto4MVP
01-11-2011, 06:34 PM
You guys dont know **** about baseball.

RedsLvr
01-11-2011, 06:47 PM
It's amazing that you guys are disappointed that he only made two changes. We aren't that last place team every year that needs to sell their whole team to compete, nor do we need to spend $200mil to compete, we can win with what we have.

Hondo
01-11-2011, 07:00 PM
You guys dont know **** about baseball.

Yeah, well good retort... Why aren't you on Pardon the Interuption?

will5979
01-11-2011, 07:02 PM
It's amazing that you guys are disappointed that he only made two changes. We aren't that last place team every year that needs to sell their whole team to compete, nor do we need to spend $200mil to compete, we can win with what we have.

Lets see, what did we win with last year...

No legit leadoff hitter-PROBLEM this year
Johnny Gomes with a career 6 WEEKS, not year-PROBLEM this year
Scott Rolen-played back to form till All-Star break, then ran out of gas-PROBLEM for this year
Ramon Hernandez is not a great hitter-PROBLEM for this year
Not a legit everyday SS (even though I wish it was Janish)-PROBLEM for this year

Lets face it, we had everything go our way last year until we fell back to earth after the All Star Break, got hot for a while in August, and then backed into the playoffs not only to be swept, but to be no-f'n-hit. Stupid owners should have seen this team wasn't ready or complete but because of luck and a down year in the NL Central we won, but we didn't really beat anyone good, we just beat on the weaker teams, I'm not beating my chest yet because I really don't think we are that good, we could be with a legit leadoff hitter and another big bat but at that this rate I say this team wins 86 ballgames this year, pathetic.

DirtyBaker
01-11-2011, 07:12 PM
As it stands, this team is going to be good for years to come. I swear, some of you would rather go all-out once a decade, Marlins-style and dismantle the best team we've had in 10-15 years. So many other small market teams would trade rosters in a second.

Walt's quiet off season is a testament to how good a job he's done here. I doubt we would have made the playoffs last year without him.

MikeThierry
01-11-2011, 07:35 PM
Have faith Reds nation. You guys have one of the best GM's in baseball. If his pattern held true to that of what he did while with the Cardinals, he will probably make a big move towards the trade deadline. I remember many times where Walt didn't do anything in the offseason but made a huge splash as the season went along. The Reds will be able to compete so it might be smart to have a wait and see attitude depending on the clubs needs. I wouldn't worry. Step off the ledge and put the rope away.

texasdave
01-11-2011, 07:52 PM
I understand it is difficult to judge a GM's moves because none of us know what kind of budget he is working with, what players are available etc. Having said that, I have never understood the "wait until the tradeline" mentality. If a player can help you for two months it would seem logical that he can help you even more having him for the entire season.

gedred69
01-11-2011, 08:40 PM
I understand it is difficult to judge a GM's moves because none of us know what kind of budget he is working with, what players are available etc. Having said that, I have never understood the "wait until the tradeline" mentality. If a player can help you for two months it would seem logical that he can help you even more having him for the entire season.

Mmmm, they usually cost a lot less in prospects from your system, when you are essentially "renting" for the final sprint.

NorrisHopper30
01-11-2011, 08:46 PM
The fact that people still doubt Walt Jocketty amazes me...

Walt had two options this offseason:

1) Risk everything in the farm to acquire talent like Greinke, etc and sign risky long term contracts

or

2) Take one of the top farm systems that also have major league talent and solidfy it with veterans like Fred Lewis, Edgar Renteria and Jeremy Hermida...sound much like last year? Renteria > Cabrera. So basically we lost Rhodes who is being replaced by some guy named Aroldis Chapman.

Walt made the low risk decision and I think it should pay off...getting these kids out there will secure our future for a long time rather than risking it with "flashy" moves...we are still in position to make a big move via trade before the deadline if Walt feels like it's necessary..the moves he's made this offseason give him more wiggle room in season...I love it.

Hondo
01-11-2011, 09:03 PM
The fact that people still doubt Walt Jocketty amazes me...

Walt had two options this offseason:

1) Risk everything in the farm to acquire talent like Greinke, etc and sign risky long term contracts

or

2) Take one of the top farm systems that also have major league talent and solidfy it with veterans like Fred Lewis, Edgar Renteria and Jeremy Hermida...sound much like last year? Renteria > Cabrera. So basically we lost Rhodes who is being replaced by some guy named Aroldis Chapman.

Walt made the low risk decision and I think it should pay off...getting these kids out there will secure our future for a long time rather than risking it with "flashy" moves...we are still in position to make a big move via trade before the deadline if Walt feels like it's necessary..the moves he's made this offseason give him more wiggle room in season...I love it.

If they let Fred Lewis Play everyday, that move will probably pan out and he will be productive... Other than that... These Stop Gaps, and the Lewis signing was a Stop Gap - are very frustrating...

BurgervilleBuck
01-11-2011, 09:09 PM
I am disgusted. A season full of Hope & Optimism has been befallen by an offseason of bareness and desolate Management.
Shameful, I say. No Jeter, no Greinke, no Reggie Jackson, no Honus Wagner, no Abner Doubleday... Jocketty totally let us down. :rolleyes:

NorrisHopper30
01-11-2011, 09:32 PM
If they let Fred Lewis Play everyday, that move will probably pan out and he will be productive... Other than that... These Stop Gaps, and the Lewis signing was a Stop Gap - are very frustrating...

Not really sure how one could be "frustrated", as this team is oozing with talent under the age of 26 and just replaced veterans with upgraded veterans as far as I'm concerned...to each his own.

Hondo
01-11-2011, 09:33 PM
Shameful, I say. No Jeter, no Greinke, no Reggie Jackson, no Honus Wagner, no Abner Doubleday... Jocketty totally let us down. :rolleyes:

Live in the Now Dude...

If you say that this is the off season you expected... Then my friend you're either a passive fan or just being unrealistic...

BurgervilleBuck
01-11-2011, 09:46 PM
If you say that this is the off season you expected... Then my friend you're either a passive fan or just being unrealistic...
I didn't have any real expectations except getting that leadoff hitter. With Lewis, it seems like they've got that.

Hondo
01-11-2011, 09:49 PM
I didn't have any real expectations except getting that leadoff hitter. With Lewis, it seems like they've got that.

Well I will agree with you on that if and only if Lewis wins and they let him get 90% of the Starts...

Lewis could be a great acquistion in my opinion.

But Lewis is hardley the proven commodity we were all expecting.

smixsell
01-11-2011, 11:36 PM
You guys dont know **** about baseball.

Spot on mate.

PS

1) Walt probably isn't done.
2) We have no need for major moves as most of you yahoos seem to think.

Quatitos
01-12-2011, 12:02 AM
Live in the Now Dude...

If you say that this is the off season you expected... Then my friend you're either a passive fan or just being unrealistic...

My expectations consisted of LTC for Bruce, Votto, and Cueto. I also would have liked a backup plan for leadoff if Stubbs/Phillips can't get it going. I was not expecting a big off season addition because I think the Reds are a good overall team with only a hole here or there that needed filled. I expected this off season and next to be instrumental in keeping together a good young core more so than some big acquisition that could put that core at risk.

I liked the Arroyo extension, I was disappointed with losing Rhodes, but glad we didn't give into his 2 year demand. I really liked the terms of the Bruce extension, and I hope (against all likelihood) that Votto can agree to something similar, although at a higher pay scale but with the same relative team friendliness. So lets hope that with all the free agents signed that Walt plans on getting, that he can get to work on Votto's LTC and lock that guy up.

Kingspoint
01-12-2011, 12:14 AM
Wish he had been done 10 days ago.

....or maybe it's code for, "I'm done because I never wanted Renteria in the first place, and if Dusty's going to make up this roster, then he can be the GM."

webbbj
01-12-2011, 01:47 AM
i thought the offseason was solid. alot of people are a little outlandish.

allot of pple are like OMG carl crawford and cliff lee are available WEEEEEEEEEEE lets go get em.

ZOMG lets trade for Hanley ramirez.

then everyone was like OH wWOW lets trade Cordero, and the whole farm for Beltran, we'll be watching this team win RANNGGZZZ in October.

I think probably everyone in our starting rotation, half our Everyday lineup, and atleast 10 other prospects woulda been traded by now if Sundeck was running the team.

Lots of good came. they resigned bronson, they resigned hernandez, they got bruce to a LTD, they brought in 2 LFs and a SS, they brought in a LHR.

theres only so many moves available aswell. how many teams honestly made big moves? the red sox and white sox, the brewers, cubs, phillies, and nationals. i mean thats it really. the rest of the league has been quiet.

but im sure pple here would be more happy if the reds gave jason werth 10 years 200 million to match the NATs offer, or sell off more of the farm than the cubs did to get garza.

Sure there were no jaw dropping moves but so what. lets see what the team can do, maybe management will see an opportunity to make a move later in the season.

end rant/

Chris Sabowned
01-12-2011, 11:01 AM
Lets see, what did we win with last year...

No legit leadoff hitter-PROBLEM this year
Johnny Gomes with a career 6 WEEKS, not year-PROBLEM this year
Scott Rolen-played back to form till All-Star break, then ran out of gas-PROBLEM for this year
Ramon Hernandez is not a great hitter-PROBLEM for this year
Not a legit everyday SS (even though I wish it was Janish)-PROBLEM for this year


No "legit" leadoff hitter? This isn't an issue, between Fred Lewis, Brandon Phillips, or Drew Stubbs someone will emerge as our every day leadoff hitter. I don't see this as an issue

Johnny Gomes can split time with Fred Lewis and Chris Heisey even, no they won't put up all-star nuumbers, but its not the end of the world.

Scott Rolen - ran out of gas, but is still an above average 3rd baseman. Can give him plenty of rest with Janish and Fransisco or Cairo. This isn't an issue.

The combination of Ramon and Hanigan is one of the best in baseball, not an issue either.

Edgar Renteria/Paul Janish is probably better than Orlando Cabrera/Paul Janish so minor upgrade, definitely not a downgrade.


No we don't have a lineup full of all-stars and guys with .800 ops. Where do people think we are getting the money for all these upgrades from? Any money we do have we need to save to lock up guys like Votto and eventually our starting pitchers. Or would you rather we end up like the Cleveland Indians and have our best players continually walk out on us for bigger market teams?

markymark69
01-12-2011, 01:51 PM
Lets see, what did we win with last year...

No legit leadoff hitter-PROBLEM this year
Johnny Gomes with a career 6 WEEKS, not year-PROBLEM this year
Scott Rolen-played back to form till All-Star break, then ran out of gas-PROBLEM for this year
Ramon Hernandez is not a great hitter-PROBLEM for this year
Not a legit everyday SS (even though I wish it was Janish)-PROBLEM for this year

Lets face it, we had everything go our way last year until we fell back to earth after the All Star Break, got hot for a while in August, and then backed into the playoffs not only to be swept, but to be no-f'n-hit. Stupid owners should have seen this team wasn't ready or complete but because of luck and a down year in the NL Central we won, but we didn't really beat anyone good, we just beat on the weaker teams, I'm not beating my chest yet because I really don't think we are that good, we could be with a legit leadoff hitter and another big bat but at that this rate I say this team wins 86 ballgames this year, pathetic.

You say all this - and you have every right too, but you offer no solutions as to what they should have done. The free agent market was not that strong outside of the major guys, which the Reds were not going to get anyway. so get over that.

Walt could have made some trades - but who? For what? We all know how most everyone goes crazy when we trade one of our young players. Personally, I would have liked to have seen a trade, but this team did not need to do much. The jury is out on whether Fred Lewis can handle the lead-off job, but folks, Gomes is going to play a lot regradless of Lewis' place on the team - they like him and I'm not saying it's right, but it's reality.

I still think they believe Stubbs can lead-off. If he is working on it as was believed at RedsFest than the lead-off situation is taken care of. If he hasn't then it still remains a question mark, but who was the alternative in the free agent market?

As far as Renteria - again we have been told that he is a complimentary player and a back-up to Janish. They had no current back-up at shortstop and I'm sure felt like they needed to replace the veteran leadership that Cabrera provided.

I'm not sure what everybody was expecting in the way of moves, but this team needed a tweak, not a major overhaul. There is no way to judge at this point how the moves will turn out - they could be good, they could backfire - to say either way is pure speculation at this point.

This team will still be good and compete for the playoffs - they are in better shape heading into 2011 than they were 2010 and that's a good thing.

I have to say I'm not surprised by the reaction of this board. The Reds can't win, no matter what they do - many of you criticize. I continue to be amazed by this board.

UPRedsFan
01-12-2011, 02:32 PM
Count me as happy with the offseason.

Signed Bruce long term!

Committed to Janish as the ss - a strong defense gets even stronger with him

Signed Renteria for veteran back up to Janish, Rolen or even Phillips.

Got a leadoff hitter with .350 OBP potential against right handed pitching.

Kept all our young talent. Kept the deepest pitching staff in baseball. Others have better top of the order starters, but no one goes 7 deep

malcontent
01-12-2011, 02:39 PM
Count me as happy with the offseason.

Signed Bruce long term!

Committed to Janish as the ss - a strong defense gets even stronger with him

Signed Renteria for veteran back up to Janish, Rolen or even Phillips.

Got a leadoff hitter with .350 OBP potential against right handed pitching.

Kept all our young talent. Kept the deepest pitching staff in baseball. Others have better top of the order starters, but no one goes 7 deep

Your 7-deep include D-Train? Willis gonna surprise all the naysayers.

:)

brm7675
01-12-2011, 02:53 PM
Lets see, what did we win with last year...

No legit leadoff hitter-PROBLEM this year
Johnny Gomes with a career 6 WEEKS, not year-PROBLEM this year
Scott Rolen-played back to form till All-Star break, then ran out of gas-PROBLEM for this year
Ramon Hernandez is not a great hitter-PROBLEM for this year
Not a legit everyday SS (even though I wish it was Janish)-PROBLEM for this year

Lets face it, we had everything go our way last year until we fell back to earth after the All Star Break, got hot for a while in August, and then backed into the playoffs not only to be swept, but to be no-f'n-hit. Stupid owners should have seen this team wasn't ready or complete but because of luck and a down year in the NL Central we won, but we didn't really beat anyone good, we just beat on the weaker teams, I'm not beating my chest yet because I really don't think we are that good, we could be with a legit leadoff hitter and another big bat but at that this rate I say this team wins 86 ballgames this year, pathetic.

We have leadoff hitters on the team, it's up to Dusty to use them.
We have quality LF on the roster, it's up to Dusty to use them.
What 3rd basemen on the FA market do you suggest we should get or have gotten?
We have a good Catching tandem if Dusty will use them right.
We have a very good if not great defensive SS in Janish, it's up to Dusty to play him.

Don't you believe that the likes of Bruce, Votto, Stubbs, Heisey, Wood, Leake, Cueto, Volquez, Phillips and such are not only going to get better?

brm7675
01-12-2011, 02:55 PM
If they let Fred Lewis Play everyday, that move will probably pan out and he will be productive... Other than that... These Stop Gaps, and the Lewis signing was a Stop Gap - are very frustrating...

What stop gap? We have just 2 positions with any kind of possible question mark and that is 3rd base and how well Rolen can maintain health and LF and whom dusty will chose to play there. Every other position is covered by very good and in many cases young talent that will do nothing but get better. What stop gap?

brm7675
01-12-2011, 02:59 PM
Live in the Now Dude...

If you say that this is the off season you expected... Then my friend you're either a passive fan or just being unrealistic...

This offseason went as any realistic Reds fan knew it would go. We have a limited budget. We brought back our best bench player at a very reasonable pay check. They kept the catching system in check until we see if the young kid in teh minors is the real deal or a 1 year wonder. They added at reasonable cost 'piece" players that can assist in LF. IF and it is a HUGE IF, Dusty doesn't abuse Edgar, we have a decent middle infield backup. This team wasn't going to add payroll, it wasn't going to trade away it's farm club. That is NOT how small market teams are built.

brm7675
01-12-2011, 02:59 PM
Well I will agree with you on that if and only if Lewis wins and they let him get 90% of the Starts...

Lewis could be a great acquistion in my opinion.

But Lewis is hardley the proven commodity we were all expecting.

Whom were you expecting?

UPRedsFan
01-12-2011, 03:43 PM
Your 7-deep include D-Train? Willis gonna surprise all the naysayers.

:)

My 7 deep includes:

Arroyo
Cueto
Wood
Volquez
Bailey
Leake
Maloney

I see Willis (and Chapman for this year) staying in the pen. But either one of them could be an emergency measure if needed.

Hondo
01-12-2011, 04:19 PM
Whom were you expecting?

Someone with a 3-4 years track record.

Vottomatic
01-12-2011, 04:32 PM
We have a logjam of prospects that probably will never play for the major league club because there are guys locked into those positions for years to come such as Votto, Stubbs, Bruce, Hanigan.......Rolen is signed for 2 more years.........obviously management doesn't like Janish and feels that Valaika or Cozart aren't the answer at SS...........Heisey is completely put on the back burner............Phillips will be gone after this season unless he takes a team discount.......so maybe Valaika or Frazier take over..........so we have openings at maybe 2B, SS, and LF...........and they feel these so-called top prospects aren't the answer.

Why not trade them for the answers?

Hondo
01-12-2011, 04:37 PM
We have a logjam of prospects that probably will never play for the major league club because there are guys locked into those positions for years to come such as Votto, Stubbs, Bruce, Hanigan.......Rolen is signed for 2 more years.........obviously management doesn't like Janish and feels that Valaika or Cozart aren't the answer at SS...........Heisey is completely put on the back burner............Phillips will be gone after this season unless he takes a team discount.......so maybe Valaika or Frazier take over..........so we have openings at maybe 2B, SS, and LF...........and they feel these so-called top prospects aren't the answer.

Why not trade them for the answers?

I am with you... It doesn't make any sense to Hold on to Alonso when you could traded based on his potential when Votto is under team control for at least 3 more seasons at least!

I wish Frazier would turn into a Moster but the guy needs a Chance...

brm7675
01-12-2011, 05:06 PM
Someone with a 3-4 years track record.

Okay whom?

brm7675
01-12-2011, 05:13 PM
We have a logjam of prospects that probably will never play for the major league club because there are guys locked into those positions for years to come such as Votto, Stubbs, Bruce, Hanigan.......Rolen is signed for 2 more years.........obviously management doesn't like Janish and feels that Valaika or Cozart aren't the answer at SS...........Heisey is completely put on the back burner............Phillips will be gone after this season unless he takes a team discount.......so maybe Valaika or Frazier take over..........so we have openings at maybe 2B, SS, and LF...........and they feel these so-called top prospects aren't the answer.

Why not trade them for the answers?

How do we know the answers are out there to be gotten? I see Valaike moving in to 2nd next season. But i am unsure why you think we have the ability to just trade players and get what everyone else wants....

Kingspoint
01-12-2011, 05:13 PM
Committed to Janish as the ss - a strong defense gets even stronger with him

Signed Renteria for veteran back up to Janish, Rolen or even Phillips.



That's false information.

Please read the Renteria thread.

brm7675
01-12-2011, 05:14 PM
I am with you... It doesn't make any sense to Hold on to Alonso when you could traded based on his potential when Votto is under team control for at least 3 more seasons at least!

I wish Frazier would turn into a Moster but the guy needs a Chance...

Alonso alone won't bring you much, he would have to be packaged in with at least someone like Wood or Leake...

Kingspoint
01-12-2011, 05:14 PM
We have leadoff hitters on the team, it's up to Dusty to use them.
We have quality LF on the roster, it's up to Dusty to use them.
What 3rd basemen on the FA market do you suggest we should get or have gotten?
We have a good Catching tandem if Dusty will use them right.
We have a very good if not great defensive SS in Janish, it's up to Dusty to play him.

Don't you believe that the likes of Bruce, Votto, Stubbs, Heisey, Wood, Leake, Cueto, Volquez, Phillips and such are not only going to get better?

Agree. Agree. Agree. (except for Phillips)

brm7675
01-12-2011, 05:15 PM
That's false information.

Please read the Renteria thread.

Well to be fair...ole Walt and dusty are saying he will be a backup and it is Edgar who is saying he is the starting SS. Personally, baring injury to ole man Edgar, he will be the opening day SS and everyday SS...

brm7675
01-12-2011, 05:16 PM
Agree. Agree. Agree. (except for Phillips)

If healthy I think phillips can still produce at a very high level for another 3-4 seaons...

UPRedsFan
01-12-2011, 05:28 PM
That's false information.

Please read the Renteria thread.

I read that he is considered by Walt to be a backup and understands that.

MLB Network reported it the same way.

Red in Atl
01-12-2011, 05:29 PM
Thank God the team is not run by Redszone...

Hondo
01-12-2011, 06:15 PM
How do we know the answers are out there to be gotten? I see Valaike moving in to 2nd next season. But i am unsure why you think we have the ability to just trade players and get what everyone else wants....

If you think Chris Valaika is going to be the eventual answer at 2B to replace Phillips... This tells everyone what they need to know about your assesment of talent moving forward...

webbbj
01-12-2011, 08:02 PM
Thank God the team is not run by Redszone...

the reds would be the first team w/ a billion dollar payroll w/ everyone on 10 year contracts.

UPRedsFan
01-12-2011, 08:13 PM
the reds would be the first team w/ a billion dollar payroll w/ everyone on 10 year contracts.

And the farm system would be so depleted that I could probably make the starting rotation in Louisville.

Votto4MVP
01-12-2011, 08:41 PM
Hondo who the hell did you want??

If you thought Carl crawford was coming here, get real.

Teams have budgets and whether you like it or not no team is going to go out and go way over budget and assure themselves of losing money to try to win, especially when they already have a good young team.


Lots of things have changed around here the last few months if BRM is the voice of reason...no offense Brm :)

Hondo
01-12-2011, 11:11 PM
Hondo who the hell did you want??

If you thought Carl crawford was coming here, get real.

Teams have budgets and whether you like it or not no team is going to go out and go way over budget and assure themselves of losing money to try to win, especially when they already have a good young team.


Lots of things have changed around here the last few months if BRM is the voice of reason...no offense Brm :)

I didn't think Crawford was coming here.

I thought he was the One Free Agent that made the most sense for this team if it was going to spend Big Money on ONE available Free Agent...

At 21 Million, I was wrong because I thought he could have been signed for 18 Million per year but that was before Werth...

I take it that your Ideal Middle Infield is Janish & Vailaka

Ha Ha

757690
01-12-2011, 11:21 PM
We have a logjam of prospects that probably will never play for the major league club because there are guys locked into those positions for years to come such as Votto, Stubbs, Bruce, Hanigan.......Rolen is signed for 2 more years.........obviously management doesn't like Janish and feels that Valaika or Cozart aren't the answer at SS...........Heisey is completely put on the back burner............Phillips will be gone after this season unless he takes a team discount.......so maybe Valaika or Frazier take over..........so we have openings at maybe 2B, SS, and LF...........and they feel these so-called top prospects aren't the answer.

Why not trade them for the answers?

They probably will be, in due time. Prospects were offered for Cliff Lee at midseason last year, and I am sure others will be midseason this year, and in the next offseason when the Reds will have more pressing needs.

nmculbreth
01-13-2011, 01:03 AM
To all of you who are disappointed with the way this offseason has transpired, what exactly would you have liked Jocketty to do?

The Reds are nearly at their likely payroll limit and certainly didn't have the money to add Crawford, Werth, Lee, et al. They missed out on Greinke because KC is already deep at the same positions where the Reds best advanced prospects play and they weren't looking for low minors prospects.

In all reality this off season has gone just about as well as anyone could have reasonably expected. The club was able to lock up Jay Bruce long term at a reasonable rate, add Fred Lewis as a platoon mate for Gomes in LF for $900k and add a credible backup in the event that Janish doesn't pan out at SS.

So I say again, what exactly was Jocketty supposed to do?

krm1580
01-13-2011, 12:57 PM
My expectations coming into this season were tempered from the standpoint that

1.) The team was close to their payroll ceiling
2.) Realistically there were no good options to upgrade the positions that needed the most help.

That being said I thought the offseason was pretty good. In my opinion the best moves were:
1.) Jay Bruce extension - I think people REALLY under estimate how big this is. You are looking at a Gold Glove Caliber .900 OPS+ guy locked up for 7 year and reasonable money. HUGE for a mid market team

2.) Dontrelle Willis - Upside as a lefty out of the pen is tremendous. Consider this, in 2010 he was dreadful. As bad as he was check the slash line against Lefties .298/.284/.581.

3.) Jeremy Hermida - Odd are he does nothing but I personally love taking minimum wage risks on high ceiling potential guys. If he does nothing no harm done. If he finds it again its a nice pick up.

4.) Fred Lewis - I am sort of indifferent about this signing but if it ends up putting Gomes as exclusive against Lefties and a late innning power guy on the bench I think there will be some added benefits along with his better fielding and better leadoff skills.

The single biggest area of concern for me going into 2011 is not LF or SS, its 3B. I think Gomes/Lewis platoon will be as good or better than Gomes in 2010 and I think the Janish/Renteria will be the same as Janish/Cabrera in 2010. Rolen on the other hand could be due for a fairly significant decline in 2011. He was much less effective after the All-Star break with only 3 HRs and his August/September numbers looked a lot like the Toronto Scott Rolen. If he does not hit next year, Joey Votto will get walked 150 times and this team will really struggle.

New York Red
01-13-2011, 03:31 PM
It's amazing that you guys are disappointed that he only made two changes. We aren't that last place team every year that needs to sell their whole team to compete, nor do we need to spend $200mil to compete, we can win with what we have.
Ditto.

We didn't need a complete overhaul. Just a tune-up. We're coming off a division-winning season and will be threats to win it again in 2011. Considering where we were not so long ago, I'm content.

wlf WV
01-13-2011, 05:06 PM
Mmmm, they usually cost a lot less in prospects from your system, when you are essentially "renting" for the final sprint.

Sorry I disagree,deals made at deadline,are made from a position of weakness.It always allows seller a greater market value ,because of timing.It seems the only situation in reverse,is trading for a high salary dump situation,which I don't see our exec's taking on.In short I don't like high cost rentals.Although I agree with not selling the farm for what was available to us.

Votto4MVP
01-13-2011, 06:28 PM
I didn't think Crawford was coming here.

I thought he was the One Free Agent that made the most sense for this team if it was going to spend Big Money on ONE available Free Agent...

At 21 Million, I was wrong because I thought he could have been signed for 18 Million per year but that was before Werth...

I take it that your Ideal Middle Infield is Janish & Vailaka

Ha Ha

The more you refuse to throw out legit names we could have gone after the more i realize you are full of sh*t.

If you are so smart name guys we could have gone after that would fit in our price range?

Right now we have an all star second baseman, you are saying we should go out and get another one to back him up? Vailaka hasnt even played a full year and you are ready to get rid of him? Hes a backup right now, no one is expecting him to start. If he keeps improving then you might have a replacement for phillips, if he doesnt then maybe you either resign phillips or go out and get another one or have someone in your organization ready to take over.

There is no way in hell we were going to go out and get a solid FA 2B when we already have phillips and are paying him 10 mil or whatever he is getting.


Get. A. Clue.

We arguably have two weak positions, SS and LF. And LF last year had something like top 3 in the NL in rbis or something. Do I wish we could have gotten a good fielding lead off LF? Of course. But the only one out there was crawford and he got a ton of money.


Start naming names genius.

RedsLvr
01-13-2011, 07:00 PM
The more you refuse to throw out legit names we could have gone after the more i realize you are full of sh*t.

If you are so smart name guys we could have gone after that would fit in our price range?

Right now we have an all star second baseman, you are saying we should go out and get another one to back him up? Vailaka hasnt even played a full year and you are ready to get rid of him? Hes a backup right now, no one is expecting him to start. If he keeps improving then you might have a replacement for phillips, if he doesnt then maybe you either resign phillips or go out and get another one or have someone in your organization ready to take over.

There is no way in hell we were going to go out and get a solid FA 2B when we already have phillips and are paying him 10 mil or whatever he is getting.


Get. A. Clue.

We arguably have two weak positions, SS and LF. And LF last year had something like top 3 in the NL in rbis or something. Do I wish we could have gotten a good fielding lead off LF? Of course. But the only one out there was crawford and he got a ton of money.


Start naming names genius.

100% agree.

Hondo
01-13-2011, 08:46 PM
The more you refuse to throw out legit names we could have gone after the more i realize you are full of sh*t.

If you are so smart name guys we could have gone after that would fit in our price range?

Right now we have an all star second baseman, you are saying we should go out and get another one to back him up? Vailaka hasnt even played a full year and you are ready to get rid of him? Hes a backup right now, no one is expecting him to start. If he keeps improving then you might have a replacement for phillips, if he doesnt then maybe you either resign phillips or go out and get another one or have someone in your organization ready to take over.

There is no way in hell we were going to go out and get a solid FA 2B when we already have phillips and are paying him 10 mil or whatever he is getting.


Get. A. Clue.

We arguably have two weak positions, SS and LF. And LF last year had something like top 3 in the NL in rbis or something. Do I wish we could have gotten a good fielding lead off LF? Of course. But the only one out there was crawford and he got a ton of money.


Start naming names genius.

Apparently you just got the last 4 minutes of an hour long program.

I have named names Genius...

I didn't say this team needed a STAR BACK UP for Brandon Phillips...

Take A. Hike

Hondo
01-13-2011, 08:46 PM
100% agree.

Read previous post.

BLark = HOF
01-14-2011, 01:11 PM
The more you refuse to throw out legit names we could have gone after the more i realize you are full of sh*t.

If you are so smart name guys we could have gone after that would fit in our price range?

Right now we have an all star second baseman, you are saying we should go out and get another one to back him up? Vailaka hasnt even played a full year and you are ready to get rid of him? Hes a backup right now, no one is expecting him to start. If he keeps improving then you might have a replacement for phillips, if he doesnt then maybe you either resign phillips or go out and get another one or have someone in your organization ready to take over.

There is no way in hell we were going to go out and get a solid FA 2B when we already have phillips and are paying him 10 mil or whatever he is getting.


Get. A. Clue.

We arguably have two weak positions, SS and LF. And LF last year had something like top 3 in the NL in rbis or something. Do I wish we could have gotten a good fielding lead off LF? Of course. But the only one out there was crawford and he got a ton of money.


Start naming names genius.



100000000% agree

BLark = HOF
01-14-2011, 01:12 PM
Also you said you did give names Hondo, well obviously some of us missed that so if you would be so genuine would you please give us those names again....