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View Full Version : Votto signs 3 year 38 million dollar deal



arkimadee
01-16-2011, 02:06 PM
Per Mark Sheldon

redsfanmia
01-16-2011, 02:08 PM
Seems like a reasonable deal, I hope this doesn't lower his trade value.

arkimadee
01-16-2011, 02:09 PM
Yea nothing to shocking here. It ensures that the core players will be around until atleast 2014

goreds2
01-16-2011, 02:10 PM
Saw it on Twitter (OnBaseMachine). Hopefully, the news is accurrate. :beerme:

SeeingRed
01-16-2011, 02:11 PM
They couldn't squeeze in a 20M option or something?

arkimadee
01-16-2011, 02:13 PM
Dam it. Autocorrect messed the title up!

goreds2
01-16-2011, 02:24 PM
Dam it. Autocorrect messed the title up!

Try to Edit then click on GO Advanced. :)

arkimadee
01-16-2011, 02:27 PM
Try to Edit then click on GO Advanced. :)

Thanks man!

Vottomatic
01-16-2011, 02:32 PM
Good. Now they need to continue to add the pieces that will get us to a World Championship.

DocRed
01-16-2011, 02:54 PM
would have preferred a longer deal

Eric the Red
01-16-2011, 03:08 PM
would have preferred a longer deal

As a fan, I agree, a 5 year deal would have been great but I doubt Votto's side wanted to committ to that many years. As it stands now, Votto will be 29 when he hits free agency in three years and will really cash in. The difference between hitting free agency at 29 and 31 can be big in terms of money.

Plus the contract won't restrict the Reds organization in a way the Griffey deal did. The attendance the next couple of years will determine, in my opinion, whether or not the Reds can afford to offer Votto a competitive contract beyond this 3 year deal. If the Reds can somehow draw upwards of 3 million the next couple of years it will provide the organization with a decent shot of extending him.

mattfeet
01-16-2011, 03:14 PM
While in a perfect world I wanted a longer deal, I can't blame Votto for going the route he went. The money is higher than I would have expected, but not unreasonable by any means. Gotta figure Cordero will be off the books by then as well which will free up a lot of money as well. All in all, I have my reservations, but this seems like a fair deal for both sides.

-Matt

MikeThierry
01-16-2011, 03:23 PM
Matt, you thought the money in this contract was higher than expected? I think the Reds got a deal out of this. Giving Votto 12-13 million a year is a steal compared to what other players that perform on par with Votto are getting. I was at least expecting a 15-17 million a year deal. This is a great signing by the Reds.

redsfan_12
01-16-2011, 03:25 PM
Same here. I think we got the better end of the deal.


Matt, you thought the money in this contract was higher than expected? I think the Reds got a deal out of this. Giving Votto 12-13 million a year is a steal compared to what other players that perform on par with Votto are getting. I was at least expecting a 15-17 million a year deal. This is a great signing by the Reds.

gedred69
01-16-2011, 03:45 PM
Matt, you thought the money in this contract was higher than expected? I think the Reds got a deal out of this. Giving Votto 12-13 million a year is a steal compared to what other players that perform on par with Votto are getting. I was at least expecting a 15-17 million a year deal. This is a great signing by the Reds.

Agreed. Votto could have gone to arbitration and asked for the sky for next year, and after the MVP season, he most likely would have won. Then, if he has a similar year in"11, he would break the budget for '12. This is as good as the Reds could hope for.

mattfeet
01-16-2011, 03:46 PM
Matt, you thought the money in this contract was higher than expected? I think the Reds got a deal out of this. Giving Votto 12-13 million a year is a steal compared to what other players that perform on par with Votto are getting. I was at least expecting a 15-17 million a year deal. This is a great signing by the Reds.

Well, I was thinking like 9, 13, 15 for his arb years, which is basically equal to the contract he received. Like I said, at the end of the day, I REALLY like this signing, a lot. It gives the Reds cost-certainty, which is a very nice security to have, especially were our organization currently is, and trending towards. :beerme:

-Matt

Jefferson24
01-16-2011, 04:11 PM
If the Reds don't have a lot of success in the next three years Votto will walk. He may walk anyway, he seemed very reluctant to signing a long term contract. The Reds better make every effort to make it happen while he is here.

Kingspoint
01-16-2011, 04:37 PM
That's too bad they couldn't get another year or two. But, Votto knows he's a $20M+ player 4 years from now, and that he will probably land a $160M+ contract over the Winter of 2013-14.

They had all rights to him for the next 3 seasons and could have dragged him through arbitration every year with the corresponding bad blood being built up between them each season.

This accomplishes two things:

1. It saves the REDS about $6-7M over the course of the three years they would have paid in arbitration in exchange for not having the bad blood between the two sides surface and taking the chance that Votto has a season-ending injury one of the next two seasons that would have changed the dollar amount he was due the following arbitration(s).

2. Because they've made him happy and avoided arbitration, it gives the REDS a chance to re-negotiate his contract and extend his time as a RED for any number of years, even if it's only one or two more.


Side-note: It doesn't change the future of Alonso as a RED. He's still scheduled to be here this season and show what he can do at the Major League level as a part-time player his rookie season, whether that's playing First Base "when" Joey Votto gets injured again, playing the non-demanding position of Left-Field and pinch-hitting, while probably spending the first month or two at Left Field in Louisville. 2011 will be Alonso's year to showcase his talents not only to the REDS as a Left Fielder, but to the rest of MLB as a 1B/LF. There's no hurry or timetable to trade him.

Kingspoint
01-16-2011, 04:39 PM
They couldn't squeeze in a 20M option or something?

That's the figure I see for that year, too.

They'll have two+ years to add that as an extension.

Jack Burton
01-16-2011, 04:51 PM
Here's a move nobody can complain about. Best 1B in the game.

davereds24
01-16-2011, 04:58 PM
Don't really see much benefit for the Reds in this. He was asking for about $9mil in arbitration. He wasn't going to get much more than $38mil even if he had 2 more great years.

MikeThierry
01-16-2011, 05:08 PM
Here's a move nobody can complain about. Best 1B in the game.

Lets not go that far. Besides Pujols, Miggy is a beast as well playing in that canyon of a park. Not to mention that Agon will probably win an MVP in Boston for the 2011 season. This might be the golden age of 1st baseman. There is just so much great to legendary talent at that position.

MikeThierry
01-16-2011, 05:09 PM
Don't really see much benefit for the Reds in this. He was asking for about $9mil in arbitration. He wasn't going to get much more than $38mil even if he had 2 more great years.

Its more of a fact that there is certainty rather than a question mark what he will get in arbitration. It won't be a distraction during the season.

davereds24
01-16-2011, 05:31 PM
Its more of a fact that there is certainty rather than a question mark what he will get in arbitration. It won't be a distraction during the season.

I understand that, but it wasn't a distraction this year. I'd rather have him be forced to perform well to earn his money, even if it's a little more than this contract. Performance based contracts are what owners and fans want. The Reds are giving this up for a chance to save $5-$10mil.

MikeThierry
01-16-2011, 06:01 PM
I understand that, but it wasn't a distraction this year. I'd rather have him be forced to perform well to earn his money, even if it's a little more than this contract. Performance based contracts are what owners and fans want. The Reds are giving this up for a chance to save $5-$10mil.

Maybe you are right with an average player but it seems that the Reds (tell me if i'm wrong) have built their young franchise around Votto. You just don't do that kind of stuff with your premium stud players. You don't treat them like a backup utility player off the bench. Maybe this contract is sort of good will for the next contract.

Vottomatic
01-16-2011, 06:01 PM
I think it's a very fair deal for both sides.

So many people say that players should go for all the money they can.

If I were a major league baseball player, I would probably take less to play for a team/organziation/city I liked, as long as they used the savings to put a good supporting cast around me. Liking where I played and competing would be my 2 priorities. I've never been the type of person that had to be the highest paid or was all about money.

malcontent
01-16-2011, 06:34 PM
Water under the bridge and all that, but signing him to a multi-year contract would have been a lot cheaper if they had done it one year sooner.

markymark69
01-16-2011, 07:02 PM
I knew there would people complaining about something with this (it's too short in length). Some folks you just can't please. There is nothing - I repeat - nothing bad about this deal.

It's just another move in what has been a "pitiful" off-season for the Reds. Let's recap: Votto extension (too short), Bruce extension (too much), Arroyo extension (will take innings from our younger pitchers), Renteria (complimentary player, Dusty will play him over Paul Concepcion er Janish also that if sees time at third it will take time from Francisco - Newsflash if Francisco makes the team then Chris Heisey doesn't make the team - this board will disintegrate if that happens). Fred Lewis (will take time away from Heisey - no Jonny Gomes will do that). He's hungry and is happy to be on a winner - that's good motivation for a lot of guys.

Let's let the guys that run the team - run it - they don't need our help - let's cheer what we have - which looks to be an awfully good baseball team.

davereds24
01-16-2011, 09:15 PM
I knew there would people complaining about something with this (it's too short in length). Some folks you just can't please. There is nothing - I repeat - nothing bad about this deal.

It's just another move in what has been a "pitiful" off-season for the Reds. Let's recap: Votto extension (too short), Bruce extension (too much), Arroyo extension (will take innings from our younger pitchers), Renteria (complimentary player, Dusty will play him over Paul Concepcion er Janish also that if sees time at third it will take time from Francisco - Newsflash if Francisco makes the team then Chris Heisey doesn't make the team - this board will disintegrate if that happens). Fred Lewis (will take time away from Heisey - no Jonny Gomes will do that). He's hungry and is happy to be on a winner - that's good motivation for a lot of guys.

Let's let the guys that run the team - run it - they don't need our help - let's cheer what we have - which looks to be an awfully good baseball team.

I don't know if you were referring to me or not, but I was hardly complaining. I also like every other move the Reds have made this offseason.

The point of those not satisfied with this contract is it saves a max of about $10mil. However, historically when you look at players who sign their first big contract they don't live up to it or get injured. Votto played great in an arbitration year, why not make him earn it the next few seasons? Some say the Reds are being loyal to Votto. Why? He's never said he wants to stay here, and he's not letting them extend the contract into his free agent years. You are crazy if you think in 3 years he's going to stay here because of this deal.

For a small market team, I don't think this reward is worth the risk. This is much different than Bruce. The reward to Bruce's deal could be $50mil plus while it is much less risky since he plays A+ defense and has great speed. Votto plays at the easiest position to fill in case of injury in the next 3 years and they have hopefully a stud 1B to back him up.

Vottomatic
01-16-2011, 09:19 PM
Let's let the guys that run the team - run it - they don't need our help - let's cheer what we have - which looks to be an awfully good baseball team.

I'm available if they need help running it. I could help them improve immensely. :D ;) :p: :thumbup:

arkimadee
01-16-2011, 09:27 PM
I'm just thankful we are not like Cleveland or Florida and have no hope whatsoever in the near future to make any moves.

mroby85
01-16-2011, 09:29 PM
Seems like a reasonable deal, I hope this doesn't lower his trade value.

I hope it does. In face, I hope it makes him completely worthless.

LeDoux
01-16-2011, 10:42 PM
They couldn't squeeze in a 20M option or something?

For sure. I still do not understand the motivation for the front office to "lock up" with contract money what they already had "locked up" with uncommited arb years. I am sure there are many things that factor into this that are not made public, but from the outside it doesn't make much sense.

New York Red
01-16-2011, 11:15 PM
Matt, you thought the money in this contract was higher than expected? I think the Reds got a deal out of this. Giving Votto 12-13 million a year is a steal compared to what other players that perform on par with Votto are getting. I was at least expecting a 15-17 million a year deal. This is a great signing by the Reds.
Ditto. Joey could have gotten more money elsewhere. Great deal for the Reds.

:beerme:

Roush's socks
01-16-2011, 11:18 PM
Good move by the Reds. He would have got more over the 3 years going to arbitration, probably closer to 50-55 mil. Plus they show good faith by assuring his financial future rather than low balling it and fighting it out every year.

Tadasimha
01-16-2011, 11:28 PM
Solid signing and neither party has to get into the annual bad-blood of arbitration hearings. I was expecting some crazy five year extension a'la Tulowitski's deal which would have hamstrung the organizaton for years.

757690
01-17-2011, 03:24 AM
To be honest, I don't see that much downside to this deal.

The only downside I can see is if Votto gets injured or has a big drop in production. But since arbitration numbers go by 3-5 year averages, and he has already had three awesome years, even if he misses most of the next two seasons, he still probably would get some big numbers in arbitration.

Let's say this contract is for $8M, $13M and $17M. He's going to get at least $8M this year no matter what. If he gets hurt and misses most of 2011, he probably would still get around $10M, and if he gets hurt again in 2012, he'll probably get around $12M. Simply based on his career numbers. So at worst, this contract would overpay him by around $8M total, or around $2.6M a season.

That's not great, but really not a huge risk.

Plus, if Votto does get hurt in 2011 and/or 2012, the least of the Reds worries will be what they are paying him.

davereds24
01-17-2011, 03:30 AM
Good move by the Reds. He would have got more over the 3 years going to arbitration, probably closer to 50-55 mil. Plus they show good faith by assuring his financial future rather than low balling it and fighting it out every year.

No chance he would get that much. With 2 more seasons like last he might approach something like $45mil. $9 this year, $15, $21.

Girevik
01-17-2011, 10:04 AM
Don't really see much benefit for the Reds in this. He was asking for about $9mil in arbitration. He wasn't going to get much more than $38mil even if he had 2 more great years.

The biggest benefit is that the Reds don't have to stand up in front of an arbitator each of the next three years basically badmouthing Votto to justify thier arbitration number. Arbitration is notorious for causing bad feelings between a player and a club, so I think this has the potential to make it easier to sign him when he's a free agent.

Girevik
01-17-2011, 10:06 AM
Ditto. Joey could have gotten more money elsewhere. Great deal for the Reds.

:beerme:


No, he would have been with the Reds (unless they traded him) regardless. This deal just sets the contract for the next three years when we would have been an arbitration player.

RoundingThird
01-17-2011, 04:36 PM
It seems like wherever Walk Jocketty has been, he has been a winner! I trust that he knows what he is doing with Votto and with the team. We're gonna be okay!

Todd Gack
01-17-2011, 05:35 PM
I think it's a very fair deal for both sides.

So many people say that players should go for all the money they can.

If I were a major league baseball player, I would probably take less to play for a team/organziation/city I liked, as long as they used the savings to put a good supporting cast around me. Liking where I played and competing would be my 2 priorities. I've never been the type of person that had to be the highest paid or was all about money.

I disagree. Joey should've did what Ryan Howard did and signed a 1 year deal and then try and sign a ridiculous offer the year after. Votto's worth, AT LEAST, 17 million in today's market. I think it's good for the Reds, but not especially for Joey.

At worst, if Joey decides he doesn't want to be here during his 3rd year, his contract makes him VERY trade-able during 2013 if he keeps going at this rate.

Vottomatic
01-17-2011, 09:07 PM
Joey called in to Lance's show on WLW and it was a very good interview.

He was both overwhelmed and appreciative of the contract, including glad to get it finished and over with. Proceeded to talk about his teammates, coaches and front office all moving in the right direction, and being excited about the organization.

Again. Very good interview.

Quatitos
01-17-2011, 11:43 PM
Per Mark Sheldon (http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20110117&content_id=16450222)

"I think it gives me the opportunity to avoid arbitration and also just concentrate on playing the next three years," Votto said on a conference call with reporters. "It has absolutely nothing to do with getting to free agency or anything like that. Although a lot of people would interpret it that way, I can't imagine playing for another team right now."



It seems that Votto really didn't want to sign anything longer than 3 years, but he does seem to appreciate playing in Cincinnati so we can always hope that we can work on another extension in 2 years and keep him around at a reasonable price.

Krawhitham
01-17-2011, 11:55 PM
Votto quote to Fay


“But I can’t imagine playing anywhere else,” he said. “I enjoy myself. I can’t imagine being with a better team. The Yankees or Red Sox — that’s a lot to deal with. I don’t want to go anywhere else.”

Krawhitham
01-18-2011, 02:52 AM
SI_JonHeyman Jon Heyman
Joey votto salaries: $5.5 mil in '11, $9.5 mil in '12 and $17 mil in '13. Gets $6 mil sign bonus, w $2.5 mil upfront

texasdave
01-18-2011, 04:43 AM
Walt Jocketty seems to be able to negotiate some excellent contracts.

mlh1981
01-18-2011, 08:32 AM
Nice to know that one organization in town "gets it."

PeteRoseBelongs
01-18-2011, 11:17 AM
This pleases me very much. Nice to have Votto locked up through his arbitration years. While Joey won't look past those three years I am glad we have this matter taken care for that time frame anyway

DocRed
01-18-2011, 01:23 PM
"Votto, Lozano Make Smart Deal"

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/01/votto-lozano-appear-to-make-smart-deal.html

DocRed
01-18-2011, 03:20 PM
Prince Fielder just avoided year 3 arbitration by signing for $15.5 million all for .261 with 32 homers and 83 RBIs. So his 3 year arbitration eligble year numbers are.....$7M, $11M and $15.5M for a total of $33.5M. (I would imagine it ends up being over $34M with bonuses) While I think Votto is a better overall player than Fielder I think this gives some basis for comparison of the value of his current contract.

RedLegsToday
01-20-2011, 11:08 AM
Does the signing bonus get counted as part of the major league payroll, or is it just semantics? Paying the "bonus" over 3 years, the contract is 8mil, 11.25mil, 18.75 mil