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Vottomatic
01-16-2011, 01:34 PM
From The Big League Stew Sports Blog...

“We have been notified that spring training would be the deadline,” Cardinals general manager John Mozeliak told reporters at the club’s annual charity event Saturday. When asked if that meant the start of spring training, Mozeliak nodded.

That gives Mozeliak roughly 34 days to finalize a mega-contract extension or face the very likely possibility of Pujols testing the open market next winter. Not to mention a full season of rumors, questions without answers, and, most importantly, an anxious and queasy fanbase at Busch Stadium.

MikeThierry
01-16-2011, 02:18 PM
The Cardinals ownership will lose all creditability if they fail to sign Pujols.

mattfeet
01-16-2011, 02:49 PM
The Cardinals ownership will lose all creditability if they fail to sign Pujols.

Absolutely.

Vottomatic
01-16-2011, 04:58 PM
It's a lose-lose situation for Cards management.

If they sign him, they have all their eggs tied to him and won't be able to afford a good supporting cast. If they don't sign him, there really is nothing left in the cupboard.

brm7675
01-17-2011, 11:14 AM
It's a lose-lose situation for Cards management.

If they sign him, they have all their eggs tied to him and won't be able to afford a good supporting cast. If they don't sign him, there really is nothing left in the cupboard.

What makes you believe that? The Cards are one of the strongest finanical teams in MLB, they can afford Albert and plenty of supportying parts.

MikeThierry
01-17-2011, 01:55 PM
Well if they don't sign him, they will definitely make less money.

webbbj
01-17-2011, 02:01 PM
this isnt really a story since he wasnt gonna negotiate a contract in season anyway.

Quatitos
01-17-2011, 02:29 PM
What makes you believe that? The Cards are one of the strongest finanical teams in MLB, they can afford Albert and plenty of supportying parts.

How much money do you actually think the Cardinals are willing to spend on payroll though? Assuming that Carpenter and Molina get their options picked up in 2012, and not trying to predict any arbitration raises for players like Jason Motte, Colby Rasmus, and Jaime Garcia among others. If you were to sign Pujols to a Howard like deal of $25 million a season, then the payroll they would be comitted to for their top 10 paid players would be $101 million, with arbitration raises and filling out the rest of the roster the payroll could easily go over $120 million. The Cardinals have seemed to try and keep their payroll from passing over the $100 million mark, only passing it twice in the past 10 years (03 and 08). Records of the past decade of all team payrolls can be seen here. (http://bizofbaseball.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4985:inside-mlb-end-of-year-payrolls-nl-central-1999-10&catid=26:editorials&Itemid=39)

So the idea that by biting the bullet and giving Pujols the contract he deserves (probably closer to the $30 mil than the $25 mil) could hurt the ability for the cardinals to fill holes in their roster is a very big possibility with the other big money they have tied up in a couple of other players is very possible. The Cards do have a lot of money fall off the books following the 2012 season like Lohse, Carpenter, and Molina. So they could have to bite the bullet with a relatively huge payroll in 2012 with some of the top contracts coming off after that season, but overall if they do sign him to a large contract it will most definitely effect their ability to sign complementary players.

All 2012 contract info was taken from Cot's Baseball Contracts (http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2004/12/st-louis-cardinals_111971260115041890.html)

brm7675
01-17-2011, 03:27 PM
They many not 'want' to pay up but they have both the revenue and need to, Albert will stay a Cardinal and the Cardinals will not fall apart because of it...

Vottomatic
01-17-2011, 03:31 PM
What makes you believe that? The Cards are one of the strongest finanical teams in MLB, they can afford Albert and plenty of supportying parts.

I checked the last 10 years and the Cardinals have never had a payroll over $99 million. I would be surprised if they had a payroll over $100M prior to that.

Sure, they may bump it a bit, but not to Cubs/Red Sox/Yankees level. I don't see that happening.

Pujols - $30M
Holliday - $17M
Carpenter - $20M
Wainwright - $25M
Garcia - $15M

That's what you're looking out down the road to pay all those guys.

RoundingThird
01-17-2011, 03:42 PM
I'm really interested to see how this plays out with Pujols and the Cardinals. Do you think they reach an agreement before spring training?

MikeThierry
01-17-2011, 04:15 PM
The reason why I think the Cardinals can afford him is because, as someone noted, the Cardinals have stayed under that $100 million mark for this decade, while continuing to draw over 3 million fans while raising ticket prices. Granted, some of that was to pay for the new stadium but they still make money hand over fist. Plus, I don't think raising ticket prices will be that big of a deal. The Cardinals are one of the few teams out there that the fan base will come to the games almost regardless of price. If there is an extra $5 dollar "Pujols tax", the fans would gladly pay it. I know I would.

MikeThierry
01-17-2011, 04:16 PM
Votto, I don't see the Cardinals paying Carpenter 20 million. He is getting older and by the time his new contract is up, Shelby Miller will be ready for the big leagues.

RedsLvr
01-17-2011, 04:19 PM
I think they're going to let him go into the free agency. They have a better chance of being able to keep him around if they do that, because it will give them this whole year to free up some cash for a new offer. Also, there aren't any big market teams I know of that will even consider Pujols because they already have high quality 1Bs, and I doubt Pujols will want to DH with his great defensive abilities.

Quatitos
01-17-2011, 04:54 PM
Votto, I don't see the Cardinals paying Carpenter 20 million. He is getting older and by the time his new contract is up, Shelby Miller will be ready for the big leagues.
Agreed, with his injury history and his age getting up their now, they probably pick up his option but then part ways if he doesn't want to come back cheap.

brm7675
01-17-2011, 05:29 PM
I checked the last 10 years and the Cardinals have never had a payroll over $99 million. I would be surprised if they had a payroll over $100M prior to that.

Sure, they may bump it a bit, but not to Cubs/Red Sox/Yankees level. I don't see that happening.

Pujols - $30M
Holliday - $17M
Carpenter - $20M
Wainwright - $25M
Garcia - $15M

That's what you're looking out down the road to pay all those guys.

Carpenter has maybe 1 or 2 seasons left then I see him either being traded or released. Pujols won't be at 30 million, at most I see maybe 22-25 million over 5- 6 seasons. The Cards have the monies and now they have the talent to spend it on.

Vottomatic
01-17-2011, 08:05 PM
Votto, I don't see the Cardinals paying Carpenter 20 million. He is getting older and by the time his new contract is up, Shelby Miller will be ready for the big leagues.

How is Carpenter going to explain that to his son?

MikeThierry
01-18-2011, 12:46 AM
I think they're going to let him go into the free agency. They have a better chance of being able to keep him around if they do that, because it will give them this whole year to free up some cash for a new offer. Also, there aren't any big market teams I know of that will even consider Pujols because they already have high quality 1Bs, and I doubt Pujols will want to DH with his great defensive abilities.


I never understood the logic of this argument. I think any team with the means would find a spot for Pujols. You don't think that the Yankees wouldn't move either Texiera or A-Rod to the DH to make room for Pujols? You don't think that Boston wouldn't move Adrian Gonzalez to the DH to make room for him? Trust me, if teams have the money, they will try to sign Pujols even if they have a quality 1st baseman.

RedsLvr
01-18-2011, 08:09 PM
I never understood the logic of this argument. I think any team with the means would find a spot for Pujols. You don't think that the Yankees wouldn't move either Texiera or A-Rod to the DH to make room for Pujols? You don't think that Boston wouldn't move Adrian Gonzalez to the DH to make room for him? Trust me, if teams have the money, they will try to sign Pujols even if they have a quality 1st baseman.

Do you honestly think that the guy who has won out 4 of the last 6 gold gloves will not object from moving from 1B to the DH? If I was Texiera and that happened, I would say "Skrew the Yankees". And A-Rod? How would moving A-Rod to DH help get Pujols onto the field?

And Boston signing Pujols would be the single worst decision ever made (financially) in baseball history.. They have two all-star first basemen on their team. Why add a third? Such a waste of money.

MikeThierry
01-18-2011, 10:54 PM
Do you honestly think that the guy who has won out 4 of the last 6 gold gloves will not object from moving from 1B to the DH? If I was Texiera and that happened, I would say "Skrew the Yankees". And A-Rod? How would moving A-Rod to DH help get Pujols onto the field?

And Boston signing Pujols would be the single worst decision ever made (financially) in baseball history.. They have two all-star first basemen on their team. Why add a third? Such a waste of money.

Do you honestly think a guy who has played in a dreadful organization until recently like the Padres cares if that means a shot at winning multiple championships? If you look at the sabermetrics, Pujols has been the best defensive 1st baseman in the game for several years. This year he barely lost out to the first baseman on the Athletics in the Fielding Bible Award. He has won it like 3 or 4 times before this year.

Besides, if Pujols is leaving for the money, I don't think he would mind DHing. He always stated he wants to win. My whole point in all of this is I just think its crazy to think that the Yankees or Sox wouldn't go after him. With the kind of money they can throw at players, they will find a spot for him. Its just silly to count them out on the Pujols sweepstakes.

RedsLvr
01-18-2011, 11:00 PM
Do you honestly think a guy who has played in a dreadful organization until recently like the Padres cares if that means a shot at winning multiple championships? If you look at the sabermetrics, Pujols has been the best defensive 1st baseman in the game for several years. This year he barely lost out to the first baseman on the Athletics in the Fielding Bible Award. He has won it like 3 or 4 times before this year.

Besides, if Pujols is leaving for the money, I don't think he would mind DHing. He always stated he wants to win. My whole point in all of this is I just think its crazy to think that the Yankees or Sox wouldn't go after him. With the kind of money they can throw at players, they will find a spot for him. Its just silly to count them out on the Pujols sweepstakes.

I just don't think you realize how stupid it would be to sign him as a free agent if you were the Yankees or Red Sox. I'm not saying I'm saying that the chances of the Yanks or Sox picking him up are small, I'm saying that them even offering would be an unprecedented event. It doesn't matter how good a guy is. If you have all-star depth at a position you aren't going to spend 50+ million dollars for a guy who you don't need.

MikeThierry
01-18-2011, 11:06 PM
I just don't think you realize how stupid it would be to sign him as a free agent if you were the Yankees or Red Sox. I'm not saying I'm saying that the chances of the Yanks or Sox picking him up are small, I'm saying that them even offering would be an unprecedented event. It doesn't matter how good a guy is. If you have all-star depth at a position you aren't going to spend 50+ million dollars for a guy who you don't need.

After seeing what the Sox did this offseason, it wouldn't surprise me if the Yankees decided to keep up with the jones's and go for Pujols. The Yankees also haven't exactly been known to make the best sound financial deals in the world. However, when you have tv deals that give the franchise close to $100 million in profit, they can afford to be stupid with their money.

MikeThierry
01-18-2011, 11:08 PM
By the way, I really see this getting done at the last minute before spring training starts. We look at the money and think to ourselves "wow, 27 million is a lot". However, he is making 16 million this year. Adding another 10-13 million isn't going to break the bank. Kyle Loshe's awful contract is coming off the books soon so that will free up 10-12 million right there. The Cardinals have the funds to pay him.