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View Full Version : 15 Most Lopsided Trades NOT in the Reds' Favor



Bob Borkowski
01-23-2011, 09:44 PM
We touched on this topic in the 'good trades' thread, but here are Fay's picks:

Frank Robinson

Paul Konerko

David Wells

Paul O'Niell

John Wettland

Jeff Montgomery

Mike Caldwell

Tony Perez

Hal McRae

Mike Cuellar

Curt Flood

Joe Adcock

Hank Sauer

Dolf Luque

Christy Mathewson

So what do you think?

http://cincinnati.com/blogs/reds/2011/01/22/10-most-lopsided-trades-not-in-the-reds-favor/

camisadelgolf
01-24-2011, 03:21 AM
What do I think? I think it's a horrible list that didn't consider the context of each move. Don't get me wrong--the majority of them were bad moves--but the top-15 worst trades in Reds history? I'm not even convinced all of them were bad trades in general. What the heck is wrong with trading Paul Konerko for Mike Cameron?

HokieRed
01-24-2011, 09:21 AM
Osteen for Dave Sisler ought to make the list, IMO.

dfs
01-24-2011, 10:32 AM
What do I think? I think it's a horrible list that didn't consider the context of each move. Don't get me wrong--the majority of them were bad moves--but the top-15 worst trades in Reds history? I'm not even convinced all of them were bad trades in general. What the heck is wrong with trading Paul Konerko for Mike Cameron?

Right.
The Wells deal was a salary dump.
Everybody who saw what Paul O'Neil was going to turn into in 1993 raise your hand.....yeah, neither did I.

Almost all the others can be divided into...
The reds traded youngster that they had no idea was going to develop.
OR
The reds traded excess that they didn't need/couldn't use for something they needed.

bucksfan2
01-24-2011, 10:37 AM
What do I think? I think it's a horrible list that didn't consider the context of each move. Don't get me wrong--the majority of them were bad moves--but the top-15 worst trades in Reds history? I'm not even convinced all of them were bad trades in general. What the heck is wrong with trading Paul Konerko for Mike Cameron?

Traded the wrong guy. IMO should have been Casey.

I know its hotly debated but on MY list would be Hamilton for Volquez.

Hap
01-24-2011, 10:54 AM
Ray Knight to the Astros for Cesar Cedeno.

Tom Seaver back to the Mets for Charlie Puleo.

No mention of Cameron and Tomko for Griffey?

Dan
01-24-2011, 10:55 AM
Not exactly a trade, but exposing Hoffman to the expansion draft to keep an overpaid Browning wasn't the best move ever on the personnel front.

Cooper
01-24-2011, 10:55 AM
As far as results were concerned, Cameron for Griffey was a bad trade.

mth123
01-24-2011, 11:05 AM
A couple that aren't mentioned.

Milt Wilcox for Ted Uhlaender

Charlie Leibrandt for Bob Tufts.

Cody Ross for a small amount of cash.

These were baseball deals and not just money deal which is what makes them so bad even if these aren't big names like some of the others.

westofyou
01-24-2011, 11:14 AM
A couple that aren't mentioned.

Milt Wilcox for Ted Uhlaender

Charlie Leibrandt for Bob Tufts.

Cody Ross for a small amount of cash.

These were baseball deals and not just money deal which is what makes them so bad even if these aren't big names like some of the others.

Losing King Kelly, Ken Williams, Johnny Mize and George McQuinn all trump those losses.

mth123
01-24-2011, 11:14 AM
Losing King Kelly, Ken Williams, Johnny Mize and George McQuinn all trump those losses.

Yep.

Johnny Footstool
01-24-2011, 11:40 AM
As far as results were concerned, Cameron for Griffey was a bad trade.

Cameron, the steroid user? Better than Griffey? Nah.

REDREAD
01-24-2011, 11:57 AM
We touched on this topic in the 'good trades' thread, but here are Fay's picks:


Paul Konerko

David Wells



That's odd. I think Paul Konerko for Cameron was one of the best trades in recent Reds history (my lifetime).

David Wells was an expensive mercenary, who was overweight and a bit of a risk.. That's why the Reds were able to get him from Detroit for very little.
If you look at the context, the Reds were able to make the money work to go for it in 1995.. Then we couldn't afford him and had to shed payroll.
Seems very comparable to Danny Neagle getting dumped, the only difference is that Neagle stunk after he left Cincy.

REDREAD
01-24-2011, 12:05 PM
Traded the wrong guy. IMO should have been Casey.

I know its hotly debated but on MY list would be Hamilton for Volquez.

I agree, Hamilton for Volquez should make the list. But in Fay's defense, he probably doesn't want to put a current Reds' player on the bad list :)

OnBaseMachine
01-24-2011, 01:07 PM
Hamilton for Volquez wouldn't even sniff my top 30 list. I thought (and still do) it was a good trade for the Reds.

Razor Shines
01-24-2011, 01:35 PM
I agree, Hamilton for Volquez should make the list. But in Fay's defense, he probably doesn't want to put a current Reds' player on the bad list :)

I think it's too soon to say on that one. Never know what could happen to either guy in the next 5 years.

TheNext44
01-24-2011, 04:30 PM
George Foster for Alex Trevino, Greg Harris and Jim Kern. Team's best player for a backup catcher, a bad #5 starter and an inconsistent reliever.

George Anderson
01-24-2011, 04:54 PM
George Foster for Alex Trevino, Greg Harris and Jim Kern. Team's best player for a backup catcher, a bad #5 starter and an inconsistent reliever.

Certainly not a good trade for the Reds but if you look at Fosters numbers with the Mets, he was not very good.

Big Klu
01-24-2011, 05:57 PM
Ken Griffey Sr. to the Yankees for Freddie Toliver and Brian Ryder.

mth123
01-24-2011, 08:24 PM
If we're going with salary dumps in a walk year, Adam Dunn for Micah Owings, Dallas Buck and Wilkin Castillo rates as a huge stinker IMO.

Somehow I don't think these types of deals are really fair game when eveluating stinkers though.

PuffyPig
01-24-2011, 09:31 PM
Ken Griffey Sr. to the Yankees for Freddie Toliver and Brian Ryder.

Griffey was a FA at the time. The Reds traded negotiating rights to him. He had zero value to the Reds at the time. And Griffey's best years were over.

In the immortal words of Billy Preston, "Nothing from nothing, leaves nothing".

Scrap Irony
01-24-2011, 09:49 PM
Behind him or not, had the Reds kept Collins, Griffey, and Foster, they'd have been a much better team in the dark, dark early 80's. That was the most pitiful professional era I have ever seen from any team. Worse than the Pirates, the Orioles, or any other team. They had absolutely no chance to compete.

George Anderson
01-24-2011, 10:07 PM
Behind him or not, had the Reds kept Collins, Griffey, and Foster, they'd have been a much better team in the dark, dark early 80's. That was the most pitiful professional era I have ever seen from any team. Worse than the Pirates, the Orioles, or any other team. They had absolutely no chance to compete.

Collins, Griffey and Foster would have made a very bad team not so bad but for the most part those 3 were pretty well past their glory years. One nice thing about the sucktitude of the early 80's is they did get a pretty nice #3 draft pick in 85' by the name of Larkin.

Hap
01-24-2011, 11:14 PM
Norm Charlton to the Mariners for Kevin Mitchell was OK in the short term, as Mitchell put up some decent numbers, but Charlton was a fan favorite and was entering the prime of an outstanding career.

Tony Cloninger
01-24-2011, 11:22 PM
Charlton had about one good year after he left Cincy. Outstanding career? He was good here and there but outstanding? ....Mitchell actually was the reason that 1994 team had the offense it did. I have not seen to many hitters be on just about everything a pitcher threw. That team would have broken the runs scored record if they had been allowed to continue playing.

westofyou
01-24-2011, 11:56 PM
Norm for Mitchell was a theft... for the Reds

PuffyPig
01-25-2011, 08:00 AM
Norm Charlton to the Mariners for Kevin Mitchell was OK in the short term, as Mitchell put up some decent numbers, but Charlton was a fan favorite and was entering the prime of an outstanding career.

Cincy flipped Charlton at the exact right time. In 5 seasons with the Reds he had a WAR of 7.4. In 9 years thereafter he was 1.3. MItchell was at 7.8 in 188 games with the Reds.

westofyou
01-25-2011, 10:58 AM
Cincy flipped Charlton at the exact right time. In 5 seasons with the Reds he had a WAR of 7.4. In 9 years thereafter he was 1.3. MItchell was at 7.8 in 188 games with the Reds. Another measurement:

Mitchell had 33 Win Shares in 93 and 94, Charleton had 27 in his next 5 seasons.