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OnBaseMachine
01-27-2011, 03:56 PM
Bill Bavasi held a Q&A at Wright State University last night and Hal McCoy posted the highlights on his blog. Among the interesting things he said: Janish is the starter at SS, he sees Chapman staying in the bullpen (ugh!), and Jocketty and the Reds really like Yonder Alonso.

Check it out at the link below.


“Janish will be our starting shortstop and whatever Paul can’t handle we have Renteria to step in. We’ll see where it goes, but Renteria is a real good safety net and we may ask him to play some second base as a backup.”



http://www.daytondailynews.com/blogs/content/shared-gen/blogs/dayton/cincinnatireds/entries/2011/01/27/bavasi_a_hit_at_wsus_first_pit.html?cxtype=feedbot

Marc D
01-27-2011, 05:59 PM
With first baseman Joey Votto signing a three-year contract, some folks believe the Reds will trade No. 1 draft pick/first baseman Yonder Alonso. Bavasi says no. “We won’t trade him,” he said. “We’ve tried him in the outfield and he gets to ball he should get to, but he doesn’t have the speed to make the great plays. But we can’t move him. He is exactly the kind of player Walt loves - he hits the ball hard, puts the ball in play, doesn’t strike out. I’m not so sure it would do him any good to sit on the bench this year so he’ll probably go back (to Class AAA Louisville) and play and work. He won’t be kept just to pinch-hit because it is tough for a kid to learn to do that.”


Only one guy can play 1B in 2012.

It will be interesting to look back in a couple of years and see if this was a conscious effort from the FO to build up YA's trade value or if it was a clear message they were resigned to moving Votto.

RedsManRick
01-27-2011, 06:41 PM
Only one guy can play 1B in 2012.

It will be interesting to look back in a couple of years and see if this was a conscious effort from the FO to build up YA's trade value or if it was a clear message they were resigned to moving Votto.

Yeah, that's one of those times when I really wish the journalist would follow up with "So the plan is to let Yonder rot on the vine?"

pedro
01-27-2011, 06:58 PM
Yeah, that's one of those times when I really wish the journalist would follow up with "So the plan is to let Yonder rot on the vine?"

I don't think it's fair to claim say sending Yonder to AAA is letting him "rot on the vine". A good year at AAA would do wonders for his trade value or allow the Reds a lot more comfort should they decide to trade Votto.

Should we be having this conversation this time next, then yeah...but as for now, not so much.

RedsManRick
01-27-2011, 07:01 PM
I don't think it's fair to claim say sending Yonder to AAA is letting him "rot on the vine". A good year at AAA would do wonders for his trade value or allow the Reds a lot more comfort should they decide to trade Votto.

Should we be having this conversation this time next, then yeah...but as for now, not so much.

I read Bavasi's comments to be more about a general philosophy of simply not trading him as opposed to not trading him right now. I suppose that was my interpretation.

Brutus
01-27-2011, 07:05 PM
I read Bavasi's comments to be more about a general philosophy of simply not trading him as opposed to not trading him right now. I suppose that was my interpretation.

It's also possible that the Reds are still purposely playing up the, "we won't trade him" angle to keep any leverage they can if they do entertain offers.

Being in a position where they have no use for Alonso makes it sound like the club should be eager to throw him in a deal. This allows them to hold serve in trade negotiations a bit better.

TheNext44
01-27-2011, 07:10 PM
Yeah, that's one of those times when I really wish the journalist would follow up with "So the plan is to let Yonder rot on the vine?"

NM.

Caveat Emperor
01-27-2011, 07:16 PM
There was talk after last season that flame-throwing Aroldis Chapman would be part of the starting rotation this season, but Bavasi says it probably won’t happen - and may never happen.

“A decision has not been made, but I think it is going to be impossible to get him out of the bullpen,” said Bavasi. “You build your pitching staff from the back to the front - if we can shut you down in the eighth and ninth innings, you aren’t going to beat us.

“Aroldis is killing people out of the bullpen and we’re OK with with what we have for starters,” Bavasi added. “And Arolidis is not going to be able to throw 105 miles an hour as a starter.”

I'm sure C.C. Sabathia would be an amazing setup guy too, that doesn't make the idea of using someone as talented as him in such a role any less moronic.

They're literally just wasting the best pitching talent to join the organization in the last 20 years. I simply don't understand it, and I don't think I ever will. If Chapman's ceiling as a professional is a bullpen guy, the scouts who advocated signing him should be out of a job yesterday.

ETA -- And if the Reds do believe he's not starting material, they should be actively shopping him to a team that will overpay on the belief that he can be a starter, IMO.

ETA pt. 2 -- And if you needed further reason to believe Bavasi doesn't know his head from a hole in the wall, it's the comment "you build a pitching staff from the back to the front." Oh, right. And here I was laboring under this mindless delusion that the reason why teams succeeded was dominant starting pitching. How stupid of me to think that the Phillies have been destroying the NL because of guys like Cole Hamels and Roy Halladay when -- surprise -- it was really Brad Lidge all along.

camisadelgolf
01-27-2011, 07:22 PM
I really wouldn't mind seeing Yonder Alonso stealing the first base job from Joey Votto. People act like it's almost an impossibility for Alonso to take up Votto's roster spot down the line, but here are a couple things to keep in mind:
1.) Price. Joey Votto is likely going to be making $20MM+ per season once he hits 2014. Ouch. Yonder Alonso? He'll probably be making the league minimum as a 26-year-old so long as Votto keeps blocking him from joining the roster.
2.) People were never all that high on Votto. He was always seen as someone who would possibly become a little above average as a first baseman, but he was never seen as the superstar he is quickly becoming. Well, the first part could be said for Yonder Alonso, too. People will be quick to cite Alonso's minor league numbers, but if you look at what each player did in AAA at the same age, their stats are very similar. Not only that, but Alonso didn't have the luxury of playing professional baseball for five years prior to appearing in AAA. Injuries have also likely played more of a role in any noticeable deficiencies in his production.

All in all, I'm willing to not trade Alonso if he's going to put up good numbers at a less than 5% of the cost of Joey Votto. I know I'm getting ahead of myself, but you can keep Alonso in 2013 and trade Votto going into his walk year to fill holes elsewhere.

TheNext44
01-27-2011, 07:48 PM
I'm sure C.C. Sabathia would be an amazing setup guy too, that doesn't make the idea of using someone as talented as him in such a role any less moronic.

They're literally just wasting the best pitching talent to join the organization in the last 20 years. I simply don't understand it, and I don't think I ever will. If Chapman's ceiling as a professional is a bullpen guy, the scouts who advocated signing him should be out of a job yesterday.

ETA -- And if the Reds do believe he's not starting material, they should be actively shopping him to a team that will overpay on the belief that he can be a starter, IMO.

ETA pt. 2 -- And if you needed further reason to believe Bavasi doesn't know his head from a hole in the wall, it's the comment "you build a pitching staff from the back to the front." Oh, right. And here I was laboring under this mindless delusion that the reason why teams succeeded was dominant starting pitching. How stupid of me to think that the Phillies have been destroying the NL because of guys like Cole Hamels and Roy Halladay when -- surprise -- it was really Brad Lidge all along.

My only hope with that comment is that it is Bavasi speaking for himself, and not for the team. Just for the record, Jocketty's Cardinals never really built their pitching staff "from the back forward" Their pens were loaded with cheap vets and youngsters, and anchored by veteran closers.

dougdirt
01-27-2011, 07:58 PM
Re: Alonso

It says to me that the Reds might still look at him in left field. I think that is certainly a good idea, because his bat is going to play and after Dunn and Gomes out there, it seems the Reds are willing to take a defensive hit over in left.

Scrap Irony
01-27-2011, 08:01 PM
If the Reds are willing to live with Alonso in LF, that's only good news, IMO. More options (especially LH guys) are always nice.

mth123
01-27-2011, 08:12 PM
Re: Alonso

It says to me that the Reds might still look at him in left field. I think that is certainly a good idea, because his bat is going to play and after Dunn and Gomes out there, it seems the Reds are willing to take a defensive hit over in left.

I hope that is what it means. They sure acted a lot differently in 2010.

OnBaseMachine
01-27-2011, 08:50 PM
If the Reds permanently stick Chapman in the bullpen without even giving him a chance to start it will be one of the dumbest decisions I've ever seen a baseball team make. That's just way too much talent to waste in the bullpen without at least giving him a chance at starting. I'm hoping that's just Bavasi talking and not Walt.

VR
01-27-2011, 08:53 PM
Perhaps he's just enhancing his perceived value on the market by labeling him untradeable. Good move.

Scrap Irony
01-27-2011, 09:03 PM
Jocketty never, as stated above, built a staff from the back forward.

I'm guessing this-- like the Taveras/ Stubbs starting spot last season, like the Gomes' contract handwringing last offseason, like the trade for Aaron Miles-- is again much ado about nothing.

That said, having a hammer like Chapman in the pen isn't a bad thing to have.

edabbs44
01-27-2011, 09:19 PM
Thought:

Alonso starts the season at AAA. If he rips it up, he gets a call up in August and his trade value is sky high. If not, maybe the year in AAA does him well.

Then they can play it the way the Phillies did with Howard and Thome.

backbencher
01-27-2011, 11:06 PM
One hopes that opposing GMs are as gullible as message board posters.

traderumor
01-28-2011, 07:04 AM
One hopes that opposing GMs are as gullible as message board posters.It is implied in "we are not going to trade that guy" that there is always a "but if the right deal came along..." I have seen that recognized so far throughout this thread.

Roy Tucker
01-28-2011, 08:02 AM
One hopes that opposing GMs are as gullible as message board posters.

An early contender for RZ Line of the Year.

:roll:

lollipopcurve
01-28-2011, 08:05 AM
Re: Alonso

It says to me that the Reds might still look at him in left field. I think that is certainly a good idea, because his bat is going to play and after Dunn and Gomes out there, it seems the Reds are willing to take a defensive hit over in left.

What position Alonso plays in Louisville will tell us a lot about how the organization sees Votto's contract playing out.

dfs
01-28-2011, 09:07 AM
FWIW Baker echoed the party line about Janish yesterday in Dayton.

klw
01-28-2011, 10:51 AM
1. It doesn't hurt the Reds to keep Alonso around (unless they pass up on a good deal).
2. YA still does not have much time in the minors- especially healthy
3. Reds once told Konerko that they would build the team around him and then traded him a few weeks later. While this was a different administration it shows, what you say isn't necessarily followed and that you can't be wedded to one plan if a option comes along that you think is better.
4. This is perhaps the oddest point here but it seems like we are hearing/seeing Bavasi a lot more the past few weeks.

Caveat Emperor
05-23-2012, 01:27 PM
Bump.

Apparently, Bill Bavasi is still winning any arguments the Reds are having internally about where to deploy Aroldis Chapman.

His track record certainly suggests he should be listened to.

Plus Plus
05-23-2012, 01:56 PM
Bump.

Apparently, Bill Bavasi is still winning any arguments the Reds are having internally about where to deploy Aroldis Chapman.

His track record certainly suggests he should be listened to.

So we should use quotes from 14 months ago as evidence but ignore the fact that Chapman was starting in the spring, was slated to be a starter, was praised as a starter in the spring, and that bullpen injuries relegated him to the bullpen?

It has been made clear countless times that if Madson, Masset, and Bray hadn't gotten hurt that the pitching staff would look quite different than it does now. This is even besides the fact that Chapman walked the entire universe last year and that there was no guarantee that he wouldn't do the same this year.

Does Chapman have the highest ceiling of the Reds' pitchers, across the organization? Of course.

Is Chapman a lock to be an elite reliever? Sure- he has proven his worth (aside from the outings where he was allergic to the strike zone) as a bullpen arm - especially so far in this season.

Is Chapman a lock to be an elite starter? We don't know. The Reds probably have a better idea than anyone here does, but I don't even know if they know. And the only way to find out is by starting him. However, a team 1/2 game out of first place and without an obvious place to stick him in the rotation is most likely not going to rock the boat to find out if he is an elite starter, average starter, or poor starter when he is already a proven reliever who is on pace to have the best season of any relief pitcher in the history of baseball.

We have until 2017 to figure out how to make him a starter. There isn't a rush, and it isn't exactly like he is wasting away.

And all of this information? Figured without the use of a Bavasi quote from January of last year. I put more stock in what has actually happened this season than offseason quotes from the front office a season and a quarter ago.

---edit---

I think that there is also some sort of value in the electricity that flows through the stadium when he enters the game to close. Not being able to hear the announcers hardly at all because of how loud the crowd is cheering is a welcome change from only hearing the crowd on the radio while they are doing the wave or when a prompt comes on the jumbotron. Maybe this can't exactly be measured... but it has value to the people in the stands, and maybe the ROI there is worthwhile.