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View Full Version : Uh-Oh, Pujols negotiations not going well...



Reverend Doo-Rag
02-07-2011, 12:48 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/st-louis-cardinals-contract-talks-with-albert-pujols-not-going-well-sources-say-020511

webbbj
02-07-2011, 04:34 PM
if im the cards theres no way im giving him 10 years. 6-7 years max and that would be my top top dollar and not any more.

texasdave
02-07-2011, 04:44 PM
Pujols will sign. Just a gut feeling.

Captain13
02-07-2011, 04:48 PM
I hope they sign him for 10 years and $200 mil

foxfire123
02-07-2011, 07:36 PM
I hope they sign him for 10 years and $200 mil

Yeah, because if they do, then how can they afford anyone else? As much as Cards fans and the Cardinals like to say they can afford to put together a decent team around him if they pay him what he wants, they actually can't. the market in the area just can't handle it.

Puhols may talk a game about wanting to stay, but he really doesn't want to IMO. He just wants the organization to look like the bad guy, not him. He's going to drag his heels about signing, and when the deal isn't done by deadline, then he walks away after the season, and the Cards only get a couple of draft picks for him. He's already said he'll veto any trades, he's a 5/10 so he can.

DocRed
02-07-2011, 08:51 PM
Give him 7 years and $175 and be done with it...

Kingspoint
02-07-2011, 09:25 PM
The Cardinals are in our rear-view mirror.

We passed them as the elite team of this Division.

I'm not worried about them. Our competition is the other Division Winners, such as Philadelphia and San Francisco.

We're going to be better than last year.

It doesn't matter what the Cardinals do or don't do.

Vottomatic
02-07-2011, 09:43 PM
Pujols will have a few more good years and start his decline like Griffey and many others who didn't use steriods to keep up (Manny and many others). If he stays healthy, more than likely he has been and will still be on roids. I hope they sell the farm for him. Seriously.

webbbj
02-07-2011, 10:26 PM
The Cardinals are in our rear-view mirror.

We passed them as the elite team of this Division.

I'm not worried about them. Our competition is the other Division Winners, such as Philadelphia and San Francisco.

We're going to be better than last year.

It doesn't matter what the Cardinals do or don't do.

as much as id like to believe you, the reds have to win the division more than once and have to do it consistently to be considered elite. not saying they wont but prove it first.

Parliament
02-08-2011, 01:04 AM
My crystal ball says this will be Pujols last year in the NL

MikeThierry
02-08-2011, 01:31 AM
Looking at the news coming out about this, I have a real sinking suspicion that the Cards might go all in this year like the Diamondbacks and Marlins did when they won their championships. Right now the Cards are rumored to be one of the teams Michael Young could be traded to. Pujols has said he will nix any trade so it leaves the Cards in a bad spot. Management might decide to put all its chips on the table and trade Freese for Young. Why I think this could be a 1 for 1 trade is because management could eat all of his salary.

I'll like the Cards chances if the lineup looks like Berkman, Pujols, Holliday, Young, and Rasmus.

MikeThierry
02-08-2011, 01:32 AM
The Cardinals are in our rear-view mirror.

We passed them as the elite team of this Division.

I'm not worried about them. Our competition is the other Division Winners, such as Philadelphia and San Francisco.

We're going to be better than last year.

It doesn't matter what the Cardinals do or don't do.


Wasn't it also Sun Tsu who said that if you underestimate your enemy before battle, you will always lose? I will never count out a team that has been competitive almost every year since the Dewitt management took over in the mid-90's.

texasdave
02-08-2011, 02:08 AM
Wasn't it also Sun Tsu who said that if you underestimate your enemy before battle, you will always lose? I will never count out a team that has been competitive almost every year since the Dewitt management took over in the mid-90's.

It really doesn't matter what you or kingspoint think, to be honest. It is what the Reds' players and the Cardinals' players think that matters.

757690
02-08-2011, 04:10 AM
Looking at the news coming out about this, I have a real sinking suspicion that the Cards might go all in this year like the Diamondbacks and Marlins did when they won their championships. Right now the Cards are rumored to be one of the teams Michael Young could be traded to. Pujols has said he will nix any trade so it leaves the Cards in a bad spot. Management might decide to put all its chips on the table and trade Freese for Young. Why I think this could be a 1 for 1 trade is because management could eat all of his salary.

I'll like the Cards chances if the lineup looks like Berkman, Pujols, Holliday, Young, and Rasmus.

If the Cards get Young, they are saying goodbye to Albert forever. But that might not be a bad thing for them in the long run.

I do agree that if they get Young, they have a good chance of winning the division this year. However, they would then have to spend the next two or three years rebuilding.

Vottomatic
02-08-2011, 01:10 PM
If the Cards get Young, they are saying goodbye to Albert forever. But that might not be a bad thing for them in the long run.

I do agree that if they get Young, they have a good chance of winning the division this year. However, they would then have to spend the next two or three years rebuilding.

I agree.

I really don't think letting Pujols walk is a bad thing, other than the rumbling of the fans.

I'm already preparing myself for Votto to walk after this 3 year contract is up.

Cuban_Missile
02-08-2011, 03:27 PM
I think the Cards would be foolish to offer him anything more than a 5-6 year deal because based on Pujols performance and the rate he is going he will want to renegotiate any contract he has in two or so years. I would have to say this will be his last year as a Cardinal, if they were smart it will be....

MikeThierry
02-08-2011, 07:41 PM
I thought about this a bit more today and I've come to the conclusion that it might not be the worst thing in the world to let him see free agency. There are many rumors that he is asking 30 million for 10 years. As much as I love Pujols, that would obviously be stupid for the Cardinals to pay a guy 30 million at age 42. I don't even think the Yankees would pay that contract out. When he reaches free agency, he will finally realize that there is no market for a player with a 10 year 300 million dollar contract. Even in free agency, the Cardinals will still be one of the teams in the bidding for him. They will still have one of the highest offers out there even with the Yankees and Red Sox in the mix.

DocRed
02-08-2011, 08:25 PM
I hope he doesn't sign and the Cards lose him after next year.

PhillipsHead
02-09-2011, 11:06 AM
Pujols is gonna pull a fast one and sign a massive deal with the Padres!!!!!





Seriously, this isn't news to me. The Cards WILL throw the bank at him and everyone will just say "wow, all that hoopla for nothing...."

Cuban_Missile
02-09-2011, 01:54 PM
Pujols is gonna pull a fast one and sign a massive deal with the Padres!!!!!





Seriously, this isn't news to me. The Cards WILL throw the bank at him and everyone will just say "wow, all that hoopla for nothing...."

You seem pretty sure about a deal that Pujols wants done in ten days, that the Cards don't seem to happy about doing knowing they can't build a great team around him throwing him that kind of money

mlh1981
02-09-2011, 04:47 PM
The Yankees and Red Sox will have their first baseman for a long time. Who does that leave? Other big market teams like the Mets and Dodgers are a mess. The Angels perhaps, or maybe someone like Detroit or Texas?

MikeThierry
02-09-2011, 06:36 PM
I still do not count out the Red Sox or Yankees. I don't care if they have first baseman already. Its a DH league.

MikeThierry
02-09-2011, 06:57 PM
By the way, this gave me a good laugh:


http://www.onionsportsnetwork.com/video/st-louis-gives-cardinals-star-albert-pujols-workin,18749/

Krawhitham
02-09-2011, 08:40 PM
I hope they sign him for 10 years and $200 mil

but he wants 30-35 million a season not 20

mlh1981
02-09-2011, 09:28 PM
I still do not count out the Red Sox or Yankees. I don't care if they have first baseman already. Its a DH league.

I would count out the Yankees, because eventually, I think A-Rod will be DH'ing for them. Him and Teixiera will be there for a long time.

As for Boston, perhaps. That may be a bit more likely.

webbbj
02-10-2011, 02:02 AM
how many more years does Arod have on his contract? by the time hes in DH mode the yanks might need his services anymore.

Pony Boy
02-10-2011, 10:38 AM
As a Reds fan I am conflicted on how I want this Pujos thing to turn out. On the one hand I would love to see Albert exit the division (and the National League), on the other hand if the Cards sign him to an A-Rod type deal it will hamstring that club for a long time. I actually think that the Cards are worse off if they sign him to a massive 10-year deal than if they lose him and free up that cash.

The smart play for the Cards is to try to sign him to a 6-7 year deal. If that fails they need to trade him before the deadline. A deal to the yanks built around Jesus Montero or the Angels for Mike Trout would be a good start.

Girevik
02-10-2011, 12:20 PM
The smart play for the Cards is to try to sign him to a 6-7 year deal. If that fails they need to trade him before the deadline.

Pujols has said that he will not accept any trade.

DocRed
02-10-2011, 02:35 PM
I would count out the Yankees, because eventually, I think A-Rod will be DH'ing for them. Him and Teixiera will be there for a long time.

As for Boston, perhaps. That may be a bit more likely.

I would never count out the Yankees.

Tadasimha
02-10-2011, 02:51 PM
I would count out the Yankees, because eventually, I think A-Rod will be DH'ing for them. Him and Teixiera will be there for a long time.

As for Boston, perhaps. That may be a bit more likely.

After Boston made such a splash signing Adrian Gonzales? I don't know that they'd also add Pujols to the mix as just a DH and if they play him at 1st (where he's clearly better than Gonzales), they'll be paying Gonzales ridiculous money to DH.

I could see Pujols headed west, actually, to either the Dodgers or the Angels.

Girevik
02-10-2011, 03:07 PM
Seems the Mets are always trying to make a splash too, trying to keep up with the Yanks. I think they'd be a contender. And don't the Cubs have a lot of their bad contracts running out after this year? Maybe they'll be ready for another one.

757690
02-10-2011, 05:07 PM
I know Pujols is amazingly talented and has been the best player in the majors over the last ten years, but unless he starts using PED's, I just don't see him ever being that 7 win player ever again that he has been and that he needs to be to justify a $30M contract.

Here is a chart of four of the best sluggers in the game after they reached 30. It is very telling and not promising for Pujols. All of these guys were constant 1.000+ OPS guys before they hit 30, just like Pujols. And remember that Pujols is now just a 1B with a dead arm, or a DH.


PLAYER AGE OPS WAR

Arod 31 1.067 9.9
32 0.965 5.4
33 0.933 3.9
34 0.847 2.9

Manny 31 1.014 4.8
32 1.009 3.8
33 0.982 3.7
34 1.058 4.1
35 0.881 1.4
36 1.031 6.2
37 0.949 2.9
38 0.87 1.5

Oritz 31 1.066 6.1
32 0.877 1.1
33 0.794 0.3
34 0.899 3.3

Thome 31 1.122 8.1
32 0.958 5.9
33 0.977 3.7
34 0.712 0
35 1.014 4.6
36 0.973 3.4
37 0.865 1.6
38 0.847 1.1
39 1.039 3.5

MikeThierry
02-11-2011, 06:23 AM
I don't think it is fair comparing Pujols with those people you listed. For one, Pujols plays a stationary position unlike Manny and Alex Rodriguez. I wouldn't even compare the body types of Ortiz and Thome to Pujols because both Ortiz and Thome are stocky guys where as Pujols will always be one of the more fit guys on the Cardinals. Another factor is that these guys have decline in production since there have been stringent testing for Steroids. It can safely be said that 3 of those guys on that list have been caught or have admitted to using PED's. Pujols, on the other hand, has consistently produced even after the "Steroid Era" was said to have been over.

Furthermore, Pujols is currently in an offensive streak that no player in the history of baseball (not even Gherig or Ruth) has accomplished. Even if his production diminishes, its hard to say how much his production will diminish once he turns 35. Will he have a sharp drop off or will the drop off be as such to where he is still a player pitchers have to account for in a lineup?

I'm not saying the Cards should sign him to a 10 year contract or that his skill set won't diminish. I just think you can't compare him to other sluggers. He is kind of on an island onto himself. Besides, I wouldn't even consider Pujols a slugger. I would consider him more a line drive hitter that happens to hit home runs.

DocRed
02-11-2011, 12:51 PM
I tend to agree. At this point Pujols is not going to give you good value for your money since his salary will be so high. The Cards raped him for the time he was in St. Louis and they would be smart to let him go. I'm glad Pujols at least has a no trade clause, cause the Cards deserve to get nothing when they lose him.

757690
02-11-2011, 04:40 PM
I don't think it is fair comparing Pujols with those people you listed. For one, Pujols plays a stationary position unlike Manny and Alex Rodriguez. I wouldn't even compare the body types of Ortiz and Thome to Pujols because both Ortiz and Thome are stocky guys where as Pujols will always be one of the more fit guys on the Cardinals. Another factor is that these guys have decline in production since there have been stringent testing for Steroids. It can safely be said that 3 of those guys on that list have been caught or have admitted to using PED's. Pujols, on the other hand, has consistently produced even after the "Steroid Era" was said to have been over.

Furthermore, Pujols is currently in an offensive streak that no player in the history of baseball (not even Gherig or Ruth) has accomplished. Even if his production diminishes, its hard to say how much his production will diminish once he turns 35. Will he have a sharp drop off or will the drop off be as such to where he is still a player pitchers have to account for in a lineup?

I'm not saying the Cards should sign him to a 10 year contract or that his skill set won't diminish. I just think you can't compare him to other sluggers. He is kind of on an island onto himself. Besides, I wouldn't even consider Pujols a slugger. I would consider him more a line drive hitter that happens to hit home runs.

All good points, but I will point out that Pujols has already started to show signs of decline. He did lose over 100 points off of his OPS and close to 30 points off of his wOBW. He's still great, but it seems like he is already getting less and less great.

But who ever signs him to a ten year deal, if that does happen, better hope he is on an island onto himself. Hank Aaron and Ted Williams were the only HOF HR hitters I found who were still going strong past 35. And both of them were completely different body types from Pujols.

We'll see :)

Vottomatic
02-11-2011, 04:55 PM
I hope the Cardinals sign him for $32M per year for 15 years. I'd love nothing more than to see that happen. :D

Revering4Blue
02-12-2011, 12:18 AM
K.C. might be second-best option for Pujols


The Royals are loaded with prospects that player development experts love. They have Tampa Bay Rays-like potential, with plenty of big arms and big bats on the way.

That team has significant money committed to just one player beyond 2011, Billy Butler. The Royals loaded up with veterans on one-year deals this season, including pitcher Jeff Francis and outfielder Jeff Francoeur.

They possess maximum payroll flexibility for 2012. More than most franchises, the Royals can afford to spend $30 million (or more) per season for one hitter.

Ridiculous you say? Hardly.

http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jeff-gordon/article_358ebdcc-353b-11e0-a7d2-0017a4a78c22.html

MikeThierry
02-13-2011, 06:23 PM
All good points, but I will point out that Pujols has already started to show signs of decline. He did lose over 100 points off of his OPS and close to 30 points off of his wOBW. He's still great, but it seems like he is already getting less and less great.

True, he did show decline last year but that said, his decline still puts him as a front runner for MVP in many seasons. I also think that there will have to be another year of "sub par" numbers for Pujols to say its a trend. I just don't think that one down year (if you consider a down year when he leads the NL in HR and RBI's) is evidence that he is declining. I don't put much stock in WAR because I think it is a flawed statistic but he also lead the NL in overall WAR and Offensive WAR. Pretty good for a declining player.

You also pointed out that he lost over 100 points off of his OPS. While that is true, it is a bit unfair to say he is declining when in 2009 he possibly had the best year of his career. He was the leader in the NL in 8 offensive categories along with 6 of those categories leading all of baseball. His career OPS is 1.050 and had a 1.011 OPS last year. When put in that context, his OPS was off a bit but not to the point where you can say that it is a trend in decline.



But who ever signs him to a ten year deal, if that does happen, better hope he is on an island onto himself. Hank Aaron and Ted Williams were the only HOF HR hitters I found who were still going strong past 35. And both of them were completely different body types from Pujols.

Isn't it fair to say though that modern players take far more care of their body than past players? I know that back during Aaron's time, working out and building up ones muscles was actually looked on as harmful. I think Pujols is going to decline in his production but he is still the best conditioned athlete on the Cardinals. I just don't think we can point out past performances of other players from different eras and that had different philosophies of keeping their body fit as indication of what current players decline will be.

Revering4Blue
02-13-2011, 08:51 PM
Report: Pujols rejects Cardinals offer
A source told USA TODAY's Bob Nightengale that Albert Pujols has rejected a contract proposal from the Cardinals.
It's been long reported that the Cardinals hadn't made an offer, but according to Nightengale's source they did recently and Pujols turned it down. The source goes on to say that, barring a dramatic turnaround, Pujols will announce Tuesday that no additional contract talks will take place until after the World Series. Pujols is believed to be requesting a 10-year deal. Feb 13, 5:40:00 PM
Source: USA TODAY

Josh
02-13-2011, 09:00 PM
Wow ten years seems to be a little much but if thats what he wants I hope they give it to him!

signalhome
02-13-2011, 09:36 PM
All good points, but I will point out that Pujols has already started to show signs of decline. He did lose over 100 points off of his OPS and close to 30 points off of his wOBW. He's still great, but it seems like he is already getting less and less great.

But who ever signs him to a ten year deal, if that does happen, better hope he is on an island onto himself. Hank Aaron and Ted Williams were the only HOF HR hitters I found who were still going strong past 35. And both of them were completely different body types from Pujols.

We'll see :)

His UZR has dropped each of the last three years as well. If that trend continues, his WAR's going to take a noticeable hit. It is amazing, though, that he posts a .420 wOBA with 165 wRC+ in a down year. The guy's like Bonds, he's in a class all to himself (PEDs excluded).

Honestly, Pujols is probably gonna put up enough offensively to be a force for at least four more years. I'm with the Cardinals, though, ten years is a bit much. I wouldn't be comfortable giving anyone ten years, let alone someone who is at least thirty (haha, plenty of people think he's older, though I'm not in that camp). I could do six or seven years (still wouldn't like it), as he will likely be valuable enough on the front end that it'll be worth whatever you're losing at the back.

I still hope they don't sign him, though. I don't care how much it may potentially hurt the Cards in the long run, I want Pujols out of the Reds' division as quickly as possible.

lonewolf371
02-13-2011, 09:43 PM
http://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jeff-gordon/article_358ebdcc-353b-11e0-a7d2-0017a4a78c22.html
I doubt the Royals would be interested in blocking their #1 prospect, 1st baseman Eric Hosmer, with a player who will be on the decline when the rest of their team is on the upswing from all their prospects hitting the majors at the same time.

Vottomatic
02-13-2011, 10:00 PM
I don't see any team signing Albert for 10 years. That would be just stupid.

lonewolf371
02-14-2011, 12:32 AM
I don't see any team signing Albert for 10 years. That would be just stupid.
Like a bunch of other contracts this offseason? I can see it happening, especially with a team that feels like it can put a great supporting cast around him for the first four years. You'd be buying a shot at a championship in the short term and mortgaging the later years as a result.

After all, isn't this what a bunch of Reds fans on here wanted by trading away the farm for guys like Jose Reyes and Zack Greinke? I don't see it as being any different. Prospects, money, they're both assets, only prospects gain value in the future whereas money loses value.

Magdal
02-14-2011, 01:32 AM
A lotta good points made here. May I add this one? I don't think he will leave the Cards. This may all be smoke and mirrors...contrct gamesmanship by his agent and DeWallet (DeWhit)

Tho' I see him as a greedy 3rd world declining player, I have to think that being an icon in St. Louis, like Stan the Man MUST be appealing to him. I don't think the idea of playing for another team visiting Busch Stadium is something he would look forward to. (like LaBron in Cleaveland)

The only team I can concieve of him playing for in the NL is the Reds, due to the Jockety connection, and the present status of the team.

If the Cards tie up 30 mil a year for 10 years....well, you know.;)

The Operator
02-14-2011, 02:17 AM
Tho' I see him as a greedy 3rd world declining playerThird world? What's that supposed to mean?

Magdal
02-14-2011, 02:36 AM
Third world? What's that supposed to mean?A country where half of the people live in mud huts. You know...POOR.

signalhome
02-14-2011, 02:37 AM
A country where half of the people live in mud huts. You know...POOR.

Wow.

757690
02-14-2011, 02:41 AM
One thing that many players and agents miss is that while ARod did get the money he wanted, he also became one of the games most hated players because of it.

ARod was one of the game's most admired players before he signed with Texas. But his outrageous demands made many root against him. Then when he and Boras engineered a trade the Yankees he became more disliked until he opted out of his contract and manipulated the Yankees into an even worse extension, when fans started to flat out hate him.

Was the extra money worth ruining his reputation? He could have gone down in history as one of the most well respected and admired players in the game, and instead he will always be known more as a greedy, selfish, egomaniacal brat than as a great player.

Pujols risks the same fate if he's not careful.

Magdal
02-14-2011, 03:18 AM
One thing that many players and agents miss is that while ARod did get the money he wanted, he also became one of the games most hated players because of it.

ARod was one of the game's most admired players before he signed with Texas. But his outrageous demands made many root against him. Then when he and Boras engineered a trade the Yankees he became more disliked until he opted out of his contract and manipulated the Yankees into an even worse extension, when fans started to flat out hate him.

Was the extra money worth ruining his reputation? He could have gone down in history as one of the most well respected and admired players in the game, and instead he will always be known more as a greedy, selfish, egomaniacal brat than as a great player.

Pujols risks the same fate if he's not careful.All true, but A Rod IS banging Camaron Diaz.:eek:

Pujols is far and away "the man" these days....but his greed will surely tarnish his legasy. I hope he ends up with the Cubbies! His achievements will be forgotten, much as F Robby, Musial and Joe Medwick have. (If Aaron don't break Ruths HR record, he would have been forgotten too)

Razzle
02-14-2011, 04:46 AM
All true, but A Rod IS banging Camaron Diaz.:eek:

Pujols is far and away "the man" these days....but his greed will surely tarnish his legasy. I hope he ends up with the Cubbies! His achievements will be forgotten, much as F Robby, Musial and Joe Medwick have. (If Aaron don't break Ruths HR record, he would have been forgotten too)

His legacy might take a slight hit, but if he ends up with the numbers over his career that he's projected to it won't matter. I'm a huge Cardinals fan and it would suck for him to go, but if he can get 10 years at an annual rate of $30 mil a year, I can't blame him for leaving.

From all the reports I've read the Cards aren't going above six years. You can't sign a long term contract for six years with a once in a generation type player like Pujols when you just dished out a seven year deal to a very good, but much lesser player the year prior.

Vottomatic
02-14-2011, 09:45 AM
One thing that many players and agents miss is that while ARod did get the money he wanted, he also became one of the games most hated players because of it.

ARod was one of the game's most admired players before he signed with Texas. But his outrageous demands made many root against him. Then when he and Boras engineered a trade the Yankees he became more disliked until he opted out of his contract and manipulated the Yankees into an even worse extension, when fans started to flat out hate him.

Was the extra money worth ruining his reputation? He could have gone down in history as one of the most well respected and admired players in the game, and instead he will always be known more as a greedy, selfish, egomaniacal brat than as a great player.

Pujols risks the same fate if he's not careful.

Agree. How much is enough?

Pujols would be smart to take less and count on the Cardinals to continue putting a good team around him.

But I'm not convinced there isn't some bad blood between he and Larussa.

The Operator
02-14-2011, 03:09 PM
A country where half of the people live in mud huts. You know...POOR.I'm aware of what "third world" means in the literal sense.

My point is that it's a completely unnecessary word to use in describing a player.