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Gallen5862
02-07-2011, 07:47 PM
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/

Michael Young Requests Trade
By Mike Axisa [February 7 at 5:06pm CST]
Michael Young has officially requested a trade according to Rangers GM Jon Daniels, reports Anthony Andro of The Star Telegram (Twitter links). The request came about a week ago, though Daniels said "nothing's imminent" according to SI.com's Jon Heyman (on Twitter).

What would it take for the Reds to get him? Does anyone think it would be a good idea to get him?

Patrick Bateman
02-07-2011, 07:48 PM
He's making like 3 ziliion dollars a year.
No, considering we are basically near budget, it would not be a good idea to get him.

Slyder
02-07-2011, 07:56 PM
He is due (if you break the $ evenly) 3 years and 48 million. If he were on the last year of the deal... maybe worth looking at with the prospect of moving Cordero off this roster because at least Young could fill another gap.

But with that said there's 0 chance of the Reds even looking at him, because his playing time here would be much like that it would be in Texas part-time at best.

-His range at shortstop is what got him moved to begin with. He's not a MLB ss anymore.
-He would only play to give someone a rest.
-We don't have the DH rule.

He would be lucky to see more than 300 abs for us... barring injury.

Gallen5862
02-07-2011, 08:04 PM
How about Michael Young at 3rd base? His versatility could help the Reds alot. Who besides COCo might have to be traded to texas to make a deal work?

membengal
02-07-2011, 08:06 PM
How about Michael Young at 3rd base? His versatility could help the Reds alot. Who besides COCo might have to be traded to texas to make a deal work?

In your scenario, Gallen, I would venture to say...Scott Rolen.

Gallen5862
02-07-2011, 08:09 PM
Can he also play in the outfield?

RedsManRick
02-07-2011, 08:11 PM
How about Michael Young at 3rd base? His versatility could help the Reds alot. Who besides COCo might have to be traded to texas to make a deal work?

The guy is going to make $16M in each year 2011-13 and will be 34 years old this year. They would have to pay half his salary to make me the slightest bit interested and still the Reds would have to not resign Phillips or to trade Rolen to make it work. Not worth thinking about.

marcshoe
02-07-2011, 08:24 PM
Hey, whatever happened to the 'I'll play wherever you want and even DH to help the team' comments he was making ten minutes ago?

jojo
02-07-2011, 08:43 PM
Hey, whatever happened to the 'I'll play wherever you want and even DH to help the team' comments he was making ten minutes ago?

young still thinks he's a shortstop....being told he's not going to wear a glove probably is tough for him to swallow...

GADawg
02-07-2011, 08:53 PM
he's not a fit for most of the teams in baseball(including the Reds)because of the money but if by some chance the Reds or almost any other team acquired him they would find a place to put him to get him his 600 ab's imo. Looking at the current roster i'm guessing he'd be the 2nd best offensive player "we" would have.

Griffey012
02-07-2011, 09:03 PM
He is due (if you break the $ evenly) 3 years and 48 million. If he were on the last year of the deal... maybe worth looking at with the prospect of moving Cordero off this roster because at least Young could fill another gap.

But with that said there's 0 chance of the Reds even looking at him, because his playing time here would be much like that it would be in Texas part-time at best.

-His range at shortstop is what got him moved to begin with. He's not a MLB ss anymore.
-He would only play to give someone a rest.
-We don't have the DH rule.

He would be lucky to see more than 300 abs for us... barring injury.

I thought he originally moved to 3rd base because of Andrus. Looking at his UZR numbers he was a bit below average at SS most of his career, but not terrible. Not sure what happened in 04 and 05 though.

As far as his request to be traded, I get the feeling he felt used by the Rangers organization. First, after putting up some resistance he agreed to move to 3b, played decently at 3rd and continued to be himself offensively. Now he is being asked to move off 3rd and DH. I respect the guy for demanding a trade because he doesn't want to be a DH. Being a DH is not the same as being a baseball player, it's being a hitter.

marcshoe
02-07-2011, 09:10 PM
If he goes to Colorado, like the link suggests, he'll play third, I assume. They've got some Troy guy to play short.

MartyFan
02-07-2011, 09:31 PM
What about Coco and Janish to the Rangers....

Young to 2b/SS for the Reds
Phillips to SS/2B

Spitball
02-07-2011, 09:32 PM
He has a no-trade clause in his contract that allows for a trade to only eight teams, and he is apparently not willing to add to the list. I am guessing the Reds are not on that list.

And, with youthful talent, I doubt the Reds have the pressing need for an aging, highly paid guy with questionable defensive strengths.

MartyFan
02-07-2011, 09:38 PM
He has a no-trade clause in his contract that allows for a trade to only eight teams, and he is apparently not willing to add to the list. I am guessing the Reds are not on that list.

And, with youthful talent, I doubt the Reds have the pressing need for an aging, highly paid guy with questionable defensive strengths.

What if the Reds don't have to give up youth to get him? The Rangers are in a position to take on a chunk of his contract too...with the recent revival of baseball in Cincinnati, maybe he would change his mind...worth a poke anyway.

TRF
02-07-2011, 09:50 PM
Believe me, he wasn't a ss when he was a ss.

Pass.

15fan
02-07-2011, 10:11 PM
Note to Mr. Young:

Here in the real world, when someone is paying you a crap load of money and asks you to do less work, you say "sure", put on a smile, and regularly thank the deity of your choosing for smiling upon you.

Spitball
02-07-2011, 10:28 PM
What if the Reds don't have to give up youth to get him? The Rangers are in a position to take on a chunk of his contract too...with the recent revival of baseball in Cincinnati, maybe he would change his mind...worth a poke anyway.

Well, yeah. If he came for next to nothing, he'd be worth a poke.

kaldaniels
02-07-2011, 10:32 PM
All things equal, he'd be my everyday SS over those other 2 guys. But the finances don't work.

Slyder
02-08-2011, 01:29 AM
What about Coco and Janish to the Rangers....

Young to 2b/SS for the Reds
Phillips to SS/2B

Young has 3 years left on his deal. That should kill about any chance of the Reds looking into him.

Cordero's contract is up after this year. Do you really want to invest 24 mil MORE on top of the stupid contract that was CoCo?

Second we've been calling for the Reds to move Phillips to short for what? 3 years? Has the Reds had ANY indication that they are even REMOTELY considering it?

RedsManRick
02-08-2011, 08:53 AM
Hey, whatever happened to the 'I'll play wherever you want and even DH to help the team' comments he was making ten minutes ago?

He found out the Rangers were shopping him when they said they weren't.

Wheelhouse
02-08-2011, 09:24 AM
What about Coco and Janish to the Rangers....

Young to 2b/SS for the Reds
Phillips to SS/2B

I like it...

Wheelhouse
02-08-2011, 09:48 AM
This can happen, and it reeks of a Jocketty-type deal (discontented star acquired. See Rolen, Edmonds in St. Louis). There are ways to make the numbers work. Particularly if you offload Coco. Young is the captain of that team. He has tremendous value across the board.

Wheelhouse
02-08-2011, 09:52 AM
Also, Jocketty has said that he would ask Phillips to move to SS if the Reds acquired a quality 2B man. The Rangers have also said they want to move Neftali Feliz to the rotation, which means they'd need a closer. The needs fit, gents. It's the $$ that's the challenge, and I bet the Reds are hard at work seeing if that can be done.

jojo
02-08-2011, 09:54 AM
Young is paid like a star but he's not really a star. Defensively, he's not a quality middle infielder.

lollipopcurve
02-08-2011, 10:17 AM
Young is not a fit, defensively or financially. Shouldn't be a consideration.

PuffyPig
02-08-2011, 10:42 AM
What about Coco and Janish to the Rangers....

Young to 2b/SS for the Reds
Phillips to SS/2B


Why does everyone simply ignore the fact that he's making $48M over the next 3 years?

Moving Cordero and saving about $12M for one year is nice, but what about years 2 and 3?

Plus is a terrible hitter these days, and can't field.

Janish will likely be a better SS (all around) than Young would be. And about $47M cheaper.

Patrick Bateman
02-08-2011, 10:43 AM
He would be an interesting utility player for the Reds at 5M for 1 year.

However, there are a few problems:

1. He is paid 42M more than that
2. He has no interest in being a utility player

It's a horrible idea.

westofyou
02-08-2011, 10:47 AM
When I wish the Reds could trade for a guy who would not only have no position on the team, but would be also be the highest paid player in team history for 3 years, just as he was hitting his mid 30's, i hope someone wakes me up before Freddie Krugar kills me.

Because that surely is a nightmare.

dunner13
02-08-2011, 10:48 AM
I think his bat would play very well in the NL in GABP and we could probably live with his glove at second. Bottom line is Phillips at SS and Young at 2nd would give you alot more production then Janish at SS and Phillips at 2nd. Obviously the problem is the money, but if the rangers are willing to eat cocos contract and alot of Youngs money just to move him then maybe something could work.

jojo
02-08-2011, 10:50 AM
What are the chances that Todd Frazier could post a wOBA of .330-.340 and a UZR of -5 to -10 at second?

Micheal Young probably isn't much of an upgrade over that.

edabbs44
02-08-2011, 11:36 AM
What are the chances that Todd Frazier could post a wOBA of .330-.340 and a UZR of -5 to -10 at second?

Micheal Young probably isn't much of an upgrade over that.

Frazier's 2010 AAA stats look a lot like Young's 2010 MLB stats. If you think that he can equal his 2010 output on the major league level, then the chances are very good. But there is also some obvious downside risk on the Frazier side that Young does not have as much of.

Razor Shines
02-08-2011, 11:39 AM
Why does everyone simply ignore the fact that he's making $48M over the next 3 years?

Moving Cordero and saving about $12M for one year is nice, but what about years 2 and 3?

Plus is a terrible hitter these days, and can't field.

Janish will likely be a better SS (all around) than Young would be. And about $47M cheaper.

I wouldn't say he's a terrible hitter, but he's no longer a really good hitter. Other than that I completely agree.

Razor Shines
02-08-2011, 11:40 AM
When I wish the Reds could trade for a guy who would not only have no position on the team, but would be also be the highest paid player in team history for 3 years, just as he was hitting his mid 30's, i hope someone wakes me up before Freddie Krugar kills me.

Because that surely is a nightmare.

:bowrofl:

cincrazy
02-08-2011, 11:41 AM
We had Michael Young once. His name was Jeff Keppinger. Except we didn't pay him $48 million over 3 years.

Young can help in the right situation, at the right price. He doesn't fit in Cincy at all.

RedsManRick
02-08-2011, 11:49 AM
I think his bat would play very well in the NL in GABP and we could probably live with his glove at second. Bottom line is Phillips at SS and Young at 2nd would give you alot more production then Janish at SS and Phillips at 2nd. Obviously the problem is the money, but if the rangers are willing to eat cocos contract and alot of Youngs money just to move him then maybe something could work.

I don't think that's close to true.

Just how much production do you think Young will give you at 2B? He was a below average defender at 3B while hitting .284/.330/.444. He's clearly in the decline phase of his career and produced 2.7 WAR last year in 718 PA. The Rangers, who have seen him play everyday for the last decade think he's a 1B/DH defensively.

PECOTA projects Young at .283/.336/.419 (.266 True Average) for 2011. It projects Janish at .238/.308/.351 (.237). Over 700 PA, that's about a 20 run difference in offense. Now you add the fact that Janish is a plus defensive SS and Young is a significantly below average defensive 2B and it's a wash. Even if Young is better than that it's doubtful he's "a lot more productive" than Janish -- certainly not enough so to make up the Salary difference (unless the Rangers ate the whole thing).

In a nutshell, that's the problem with Young. In 2011, we expect him to play like Janish and get paid like Pujols. To say nothing about 2012 & 2013. Sorry, but Michael Young just isn't a very good baseball player any more. He's a solid bench guy to have around if he were being paid as such.

edabbs44
02-08-2011, 11:57 AM
I'm not so sure that's true. Just how much production do you think Young will give you at 2B?

He was a below average defender at 3B while hitting .284/.330/.444. He's clearly in the decline phase of his career and produced 2.7 WAR last year in 718 PA.

PECOTA projects Young at .283/.336/.419 (.266 True Average) for 2011. It projects Janish at .238/.308/.351 (.237). Over 700 PA, that's about a 20 run difference in offense. Now you add the fact that Janish is a plus defensive SS and young is a significantly below average defensive 2B and it's nearly a wash.

In a nutshell, that's the problem with Young. In 2011, we expect him to play like Janish and get paid like Pujols. To say nothing about 2012 & 2013. Sorry, but Michael Young just isn't a very good baseball player any more.

What makes you say that he is a significantly below average defensive 2B?

One thing that I'm not sure that I have seen mentioned is the home/road splits for Young. .260/.299/.380 on the road in 2010 vs .307/.361/.509 at home. I view Texas guys similarly to Colorado guys when it comes to their offensive numbers.

RedsManRick
02-08-2011, 12:08 PM
What makes you say that he is a significantly below average defensive 2B?

Well, UZR has him at -7.6 and -5.4 at 3B the last two years. Baseball Reference has him at -10 and -3. 2B is tougher than 3B, particularly in regards to range. He's also a year older.

Would you prefer I drop the "significantly"? I suppose that's subjective, but I see him as a -5 to -10 defensive 2B. That's significant in my book and while we can debate the semantics, the conclusion doesn't change -- Janish is something like 15 to 20 runs better than Young defensively.

I'd be very curious to see an argument suggesting Young is better than that -- one that doesn't involve going down the "defensive metrics suck and should be wholly ignored" rabbit hole.

TRF
02-08-2011, 12:13 PM
What makes you say that he is a significantly below average defensive 2B?

One thing that I'm not sure that I have seen mentioned is the home/road splits for Young. .260/.299/.380 on the road in 2010 vs .307/.361/.509 at home. I view Texas guys similarly to Colorado guys when it comes to their offensive numbers.

Well, I have been watching him play for years. He's been below average at every position he's ever played. His GG is a joke.

He's had 4 seasons with an OPS over .800, 6 below. He was pushed off SS and whined, pushed off 3B and whined again.

That is kinda telling.

jojo
02-08-2011, 12:13 PM
What makes you say that he is a significantly below average defensive 2B?

As a rough thumb in the air, a third baseman is likely to have similar numbers as a second baseman. That would suggest Young would be something like a -7.5 run glove at second over a season. His performance at short supports this notion as well.


One thing that I'm not sure that I have seen mentioned is the home/road splits for Young. .260/.299/.380 on the road in 2010 vs .307/.361/.509 at home. I view Texas guys similarly to Colorado guys when it comes to their offensive numbers.

Young has largely live off of Arlington over the last four seasons.

Wheelhouse
02-08-2011, 12:51 PM
Young has 3 years left on his deal. That should kill about any chance of the Reds looking into him.

Cordero's contract is up after this year. Do you really want to invest 24 mil MORE on top of the stupid contract that was CoCo?

Second we've been calling for the Reds to move Phillips to short for what? 3 years? Has the Reds had ANY indication that they are even REMOTELY considering it?

Answer: yes. Young will win games for the Reds. Coco loses games for the Reds. Young is in good physical shape and is know for being one of the most disciplined players in the game. Coco is in terrible physical shape. We have a stocked bullpen. SS is a question mark, no matter what you think of Janish.

edabbs44
02-08-2011, 01:07 PM
Well, UZR has him at -7.6 and -5.4 at 3B the last two years. Baseball Reference has him at -10 and -3. 2B is tougher than 3B, particularly in regards to range. He's also a year older.

Would you prefer I drop the "significantly"? I suppose that's subjective, but I see him as a -5 to -10 defensive 2B. That's significant in my book and while we can debate the semantics, the conclusion doesn't change -- Janish is something like 15 to 20 runs better than Young defensively.

I'd be very curious to see an argument suggesting Young is better than that -- one that doesn't involve going down the "defensive metrics suck and should be wholly ignored" rabbit hole.

I'm not arguing either way. Haven't seen Young play all that much in the field, or at least enough to make a determination either way. Plus, he'd be headed to a new position and it would be difficult to predict with any sort of accuracy how he would perform there. You think that 2B is a different ballgame than 3B, Jojo thinks they are similar. Looking at some multi-positional guys over their careers, Figgins thinks 3B is much easier, Omar Infante and Polanco think they are about the same and Maicer Izturis thinks that 2B is easier. Based on UZR. In theory 2B might seem to be a little more difficult to play, but is this a lock or could it be based upon the player in scope?

I'll also be interested to see where Janish's UZR comes in at this season. His 10 number is weighted greatly towards his 2009 numbers where his 2010 numbers were pretty average. There are a lot more guys who score 2s than 20s. Calling him a 10 glove right now might be a little aggressive, since we know that this metric becomes more flawed as the sample size gets smaller.

edabbs44
02-08-2011, 01:14 PM
Answer: yes. Young will win games for the Reds. Coco loses games for the Reds. Young is in good physical shape and is know for being one of the most disciplined players in the game. Coco is in terrible physical shape. We have a stocked bullpen. SS is a question mark, no matter what you think of Janish.

I'd be shocked if Texas would want Cordero back. They may sooner eat all of Young's money.

PuffyPig
02-08-2011, 01:49 PM
Answer: yes.

I really think you mean "no".

RedsManRick
02-08-2011, 02:45 PM
I'm not arguing either way. Haven't seen Young play all that much in the field, or at least enough to make a determination either way. Plus, he'd be headed to a new position and it would be difficult to predict with any sort of accuracy how he would perform there. You think that 2B is a different ballgame than 3B, Jojo thinks they are similar. Looking at some multi-positional guys over their careers, Figgins thinks 3B is much easier, Omar Infante and Polanco think they are about the same and Maicer Izturis thinks that 2B is easier. Based on UZR. In theory 2B might seem to be a little more difficult to play, but is this a lock or could it be based upon the player in scope?

Historically 2B has been more difficult. However TangoTiger recently did an analysis which shows 2B and 3B to be roughly equal. Even conceding that, Jojo and I agree that he's something like a -7.5 2B.



I'll also be interested to see where Janish's UZR comes in at this season. His 10 number is weighted greatly towards his 2009 numbers where his 2010 numbers were pretty average. There are a lot more guys who score 2s than 20s. Calling him a 10 glove right now might be a little aggressive, since we know that this metric becomes more flawed as the sample size gets smaller.

Agreed, I'm interested too. We certainly need more data to be more confident. In aggregate, Janish has put up a 10.7 UZR over a full season's worth of work. Per B-R, TotalZone has him at +11, BIS at +10. It's also notable that fans rated him the 3rd best defensive SS in baseball on the fan scouting report. But even regressed towards league average due to the sample size concern, that puts him in the +3 to +5 range, still 10+ runs better than Young before the positional adjustment. While 2B & 3B might be equal, I think we can agree SS is more difficult, so tack a few more runs on that to make it an apples to apples comparison.

But it still misses the point. Let's be very conservative and say Janish is only 10 runs better defensively. That leaves Young as 10 runs better, 1 win. 1 win in free agency is $5M.

In a bubble, 1 win better is a good thing. But if you're trading Coco for him, you're now replacing Coco with our 8th best reliever. I'm guessing Coco is 1 win better than that guy. So now we're still taking on money for no net gain.

Over the next few years, Janish will be in his peak. Young will be declining. The standard assumption is that players lose about 0.5 wins per year of production through aging. So in 2012 Young is just 0.5 better. In 2013 they're equal.

This also ignores the whole "we're assuming Phillips isn't hurt by moving positions" assumption.

Really, any reasonable set of assumptions makes it a bad idea under almost any condition short of "Rangers get scrubs in return and pay at least half of his salary". And that assumes we could add another $8M to the payroll, which we can't.

backbencher
02-08-2011, 02:57 PM
I'd be hard pressed to think of a player whose performace/contract status was less suited for the Reds in all of MLB. Barry Zito, maybe? David Ortiz? Certainly Young is among the least plausible additions to the Reds as currently constructed.

OnBaseMachine
02-08-2011, 03:57 PM
Young is not a fit, defensively or financially. Shouldn't be a consideration.

Agreed.

Homer Bailey
02-08-2011, 07:29 PM
I honestly can't believe we're on our 4th page discussing Michael Young. In my wildest dreams I can't imagine how he fits into the Reds plans at all.

edabbs44
02-08-2011, 08:08 PM
I honestly can't believe we're on our 4th page discussing Michael Young. In my wildest dreams I can't imagine how he fits into the Reds plans at all.

Texas picks up a ton of his salary, becomes "affordable" and can function as a Cairo replacement? :)

mth123
02-08-2011, 08:13 PM
From Texas standpoint, this could be a nice development. Young demanding a trade may give the Rangers some leverage. They can go to him and tell him that they can't find a taker unless he takes less money, If he does, the Rangers may get something useful. If he doesn't, then the Rangers can call his bluff and let him opt out saving them a ton of cash. If Young is hellbent on leaving, the Rangers should be in for a financial windfall.

Scrap Irony
02-08-2011, 08:22 PM
If Texas pays for all but, say, $23 million AND takes Cordero straight up (or even Janish and Cordero), I'd love to have Young.

Of course, I'm thinking he could play well enough defensively at SS (in place of Renteria/ Janish for 75 games), at 3B (50 games), 2B (for ten games), and 1B (10 games) to keep his 105+ OPS+ bat in the lineup as the number two hitter pretty much all the time.

Cordero, meanwhile, gets replaced by some combination of Chapman, Arredondo, and Masset as closer and Leake, Maloney, Willis, LeCure, or Smith as long relief.

That's a net gain pretty much any Red fan could get behind, I'd think.

Having said that, there's probably no way Young would

1) come to Cincinnati (he's not on Young's list of teams

and

2) come to Cincinnati for that poor package and ridiculous salary demands.

It's a shame, too. I really like the way Young plays the game. He's tough, hard-nosed, baseball smart, and pretty solid on the basepaths. (Think Rolen with a better back.)

Wheelhouse
02-11-2011, 05:13 PM
This video captures the pain of the whole situation:
YouTube - Breaking the Michael Young news to a three-year-old.... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6-ks_UP988)

Wheelhouse
02-11-2011, 05:38 PM
...but is relevant to any baseball fan. A three-year old being told Michael Young will no longer be on the Rangers:
YouTube - Breaking the Michael Young news to a three-year-old.... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6-ks_UP988)

Eric_the_Red
02-11-2011, 07:03 PM
This video captures the pain of the whole situation:
YouTube - Breaking the Michael Young news to a three-year-old.... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6-ks_UP988)

Why would Mrs. Carpenter record her explaining it to her son?

Seriously, if I was Michael Young and saw that, I would immediately rescind me trade demand. Heartbreaking stuff.:cry:

Wheelhouse
02-11-2011, 07:34 PM
Why would Mrs. Carpenter record her explaining it to her son?

Seriously, if I was Michael Young and saw that, I would immediately rescind me trade demand. Heartbreaking stuff.:cry:

I know, right? I cried at this.

blumj
02-11-2011, 09:01 PM
I suppose she might have done it hoping he'd see it and change his mind. But she also might just have broken the kid's heart for no reason, a lot stranger things have happened than a ballplayer demands a trade and his team doesn't trade him.

Spitball
02-11-2011, 10:16 PM
I suppose she might have done it hoping he'd see it and change his mind. But she also might just have broken the kid's heart for no reason, a lot stranger things have happened than a ballplayer demands a trade and his team doesn't trade him.

Right. Why tell him, video tape it, and put it out there? Even if Young sees it and changes his mind...that's your kid, lady. I can't wait until she gains more fame by telling him about Santa Claus and then the Easter Bunny. Yeeew...

TheNext44
02-11-2011, 10:37 PM
This video captures the pain of the whole situation:
YouTube - Breaking the Michael Young news to a three-year-old.... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6-ks_UP988)

This kid is so dumb. Doesn't he realize that Young's WAR has been hovering around league average for years and that his UZR has been well below average nearly his whole career, no matter what position he plays? Just pick a new favorite player who might actually justify his salary. :cool: