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View Full Version : Anyone else think the NCAA has screwed up their brand of baseball?



jojo
02-20-2011, 01:41 PM
Jeeps.

Been watching some games and the new bats are a travesty. The ball sounds awful coming off of the bat and if I see another flair, my head will explode....

They should've just went to wooden bats.

Revering4Blue
02-20-2011, 04:38 PM
They should've just went to wooden bats.

This is precisely why I have no interest in NCAA baseball. Aluminum bats are for kids.

Kingspoint
02-21-2011, 12:25 AM
Yes. It should be as exciting as March Madness. It's poorly covered.

You can't even find information on the regular season on the major internet sports sources without extensive digging, and even then, it's very poor.

Kingspoint
02-21-2011, 12:26 AM
This is precisely why I have no interest in NCAA baseball. Aluminum bats are for kids.

I think Aluminum bats should be outlawed at any level.

RANDY IN INDY
02-21-2011, 03:58 AM
The new BBCOR rated bats are nothing like the previous aluminum bats. They perform and sound much like wood.

bucksfan2
02-21-2011, 08:20 AM
Yes. It should be as exciting as March Madness. It's poorly covered.

You can't even find information on the regular season on the major internet sports sources without extensive digging, and even then, it's very poor.

It never has been as exciting as March Madness and it never will be as exciting as March Madness.

When I was in high school Dan Patrick was speaking at our school's sports stag. He asked to speak to the student body the day before and of course it was agreed to. During the Q&A part a student asked about college baseball and why ESPN doesn't show more of it. The answer came back something to the effect of there just isn't a demand for it.

The coverage of it has always been poor. One problem could be that the season starts when college basketball gets into overdrive. Another is people just aren't thinking baseball this early in the year. I couldn't believe myself that the season had already started.

reds1869
02-21-2011, 09:27 AM
It never has been as exciting as March Madness and it never will be as exciting as March Madness.

When I was in high school Dan Patrick was speaking at our school's sports stag. He asked to speak to the student body the day before and of course it was agreed to. During the Q&A part a student asked about college baseball and why ESPN doesn't show more of it. The answer came back something to the effect of there just isn't a demand for it.

The coverage of it has always been poor. One problem could be that the season starts when college basketball gets into overdrive. Another is people just aren't thinking baseball this early in the year. I couldn't believe myself that the season had already started.

The flip side of that argument is that broadcast saturation can drive demand. ESPN largely decides what people are interested in through their programming, as does FSN. Why do people watch events like poker, eating contests and world's strongest man? Because they are on.

IslandRed
02-21-2011, 09:37 AM
You're also dealing with the nation's sporting culture. Football started as a college sport, and college football sank its roots into our sports culture long before the NFL became a monolith. Basketball started as a college sport, and college basketball mattered long before anybody much cared about the NBA, and they have that great tournament.

But for over 100 years, baseball = pro in most people's minds. Get away from MLB and the first place people look is not college ball but minor-league ball. The aluminum-bat thing hasn't helped in that regard. Kids hit with metal. Grownups hit with wood.


The flip side of that argument is that broadcast saturation can drive demand. ESPN largely decides what people are interested in through their programming, as does FSN. Why do people watch events like poker, eating contests and world's strongest man? Because they are on.

But they only show those things when there's nothing else better to show. College baseball competes against late-season college basketball (talk about oversaturation) and as soon as March Madness is over, it's Opening Day, and everyone's carrying MLB. There's no window open for college baseball to rise to the top and get some attention.

The College World Series is great, but it's about the only time of year people pay attention to college baseball if they aren't a fan of a specific college baseball team.

bucksfan2
02-21-2011, 09:57 AM
The flip side of that argument is that broadcast saturation can drive demand. ESPN largely decides what people are interested in through their programming, as does FSN. Why do people watch events like poker, eating contests and world's strongest man? Because they are on.

When are those programs on? Thats the key thing. Poker generally is on during the summer months when MLB is the only thing going. It shows reruns at 10pm on ESPN2. It is basically a time killer because nothing else better is on. The worlds strongest man is also on at very odd hours. I guess you could replay some NCAA baseball but then again who wants to watch a replay of a baseball game? And also it doesn't fit into that 1 hour window.

Chip R
02-21-2011, 10:03 AM
You're also dealing with the nation's sporting culture. Football started as a college sport, and college football sank its roots into our sports culture long before the NFL became a monolith. Basketball started as a college sport, and college basketball mattered long before anybody much cared about the NBA, and they have that great tournament.

But for over 100 years, baseball = pro in most people's minds. Get away from MLB and the first place people look is not college ball but minor-league ball. The aluminum-bat thing hasn't helped in that regard. Kids hit with metal. Grownups hit with wood.



But they only show those things when there's nothing else better to show. College baseball competes against late-season college basketball (talk about oversaturation) and as soon as March Madness is over, it's Opening Day, and everyone's carrying MLB. There's no window open for college baseball to rise to the top and get some attention.

The College World Series is great, but it's about the only time of year people pay attention to college baseball if they aren't a fan of a specific college baseball team.

It doesn't help College baseball that colleges are cutting baseball programs. It's also becoming a West Coast/Southern sport. People like jojo and Revering4Blue are turned off because of the aluminum bats. Another problem is that the star college baseball player doesn't usually get to play in the majors when he's drafted as do the college football and basketball players.

jojo
02-21-2011, 10:10 AM
The new BBCOR rated bats are nothing like the previous aluminum bats. They perform and sound much like wood.

I know that was the goal but I think they've got a ways to go...

jojo
02-21-2011, 10:15 AM
It doesn't help College baseball that colleges are cutting baseball programs. It's also becoming a West Coast/Southern sport. People like jojo and Revering4Blue are turned off because of the aluminum bats. Another problem is that the star college baseball player doesn't usually get to play in the majors when he's drafted as do the college football and basketball players.

I actually didn't mind the aluminum bats though I do think going wood would be a smart choice. I hate the hybrid weirdness that the NCAA settled upon for whatever reason (I suspect money is a big part of it). It's like NCAA baseball just had $1M worth of cosmetic surgery and I'm like who the heck it that? I don't even recognize you anymore.... The character of the game seems completely changes with one bucket of ice cold water to the face.

To me that's the underlying problem.

15fan
02-21-2011, 10:16 AM
I think the NCAA has capped baseball scholarships at something like 11.7 per team. Therefore, most kids only get a partial scholarship and it's not uncommon that they have to spend a year (or two) as a preferred walk-on before getting the partial scholarship.

That can be a tough sell for a kid coming out of high school who also has the option to start playing minor league ball. The opportunity cost isn't as great to take the small signing bonus and try pro ball first.

Sea Ray
02-21-2011, 10:39 AM
Is there something different about the bats this year?

Sea Ray
02-21-2011, 10:53 AM
I think the NCAA has capped baseball scholarships at something like 11.7 per team. Therefore, most kids only get a partial scholarship and it's not uncommon that they have to spend a year (or two) as a preferred walk-on before getting the partial scholarship.

That can be a tough sell for a kid coming out of high school who also has the option to start playing minor league ball. The opportunity cost isn't as great to take the small signing bonus and try pro ball first.

Wow. That's incredible. Upon doing a little digging, apparently very few BB players receive full scholarships

http://www.independentmail.com/news/2007/may/01/leggett-speaks-out-against-new-ncaa-baseball-rules/

That article mentions major league players who didn't receive a full ride in college. Considering how many players you need to fill a baseball team, 11.7 is nothing.

You can see why guys opt to sign after being drafted rather than go to school. In fact I'm amazed more don't sign. Since a recruit only gets one yr scholarships, he doesn't even know what kind of financial aide he'll get for more than one year at a time.

You can also see why NCAA BB isn't a better product. If you have any BB skills at all, why go the college route?

Razor Shines
02-21-2011, 05:59 PM
I know that was the goal but I think they've got a ways to go...

My brother is a freshman at a JuCo and he says he can tell a big difference. As a pitcher he loves it and as a hitter it just puts more of a premium of being able to get the bat head out.

They didn't use them in fall and he says he sees guys on his team who were "good hitters" in the fall making a lot of weak outs now.

Could be more of a placebo affect than anything though.

IslandRed
02-21-2011, 07:45 PM
It doesn't help College baseball that colleges are cutting baseball programs. It's also becoming a West Coast/Southern sport.

At least in my lifetime, it's always been a West/South sport. If anything, the playing field is more level now. The NCAA put a cap on regular-season games several years ago, which keeps warm-weather schools from playing real games before the teams up north can even practice.

But in looking at history, northern/Big Ten schools tended to do better up until the mid-to-late 1960s, which is about the time MLB put in the draft. My only-sort-of-educated guess would be that the draft took a lot of bonus money out of play and therefore pushed more talent into college, which worked to the advantage of the schools located closer to more of it.


If you have any BB skills at all, why go the college route?

It's definitely a factor now, but it's only in recent years that teams are spending real money deep into the draft. Even so, late-round picks are generally offered peanuts for a signing bonus, which makes college a reasonable option assuming they can afford to go with less than a full scholarship.

Caveat Emperor
02-23-2011, 02:39 AM
My brother is a freshman at a JuCo and he says he can tell a big difference. As a pitcher he loves it and as a hitter it just puts more of a premium of being able to get the bat head out.

They didn't use them in fall and he says he sees guys on his team who were "good hitters" in the fall making a lot of weak outs now.

Could be more of a placebo affect than anything though.

It's too early to tell, but I once had a scout at a Tulane game tell me that if college baseball switched to wood bats that half the D-1 programs would have to fold up shop due to lack of talent.

Any tampering with the bat in college away from the status quo is going to wreck havoc on the non-traditional, non-southern schools IMO.

RANDY IN INDY
02-23-2011, 08:41 AM
Been hearing that the new BBCOR rated bats are not as lively as wood. Lot of college players really struggling with them.

Razor Shines
02-23-2011, 12:28 PM
What you guys are saying seems to be true from what my brother has noticed in the very early going.

It's funny he's actually thrilled so far. He thinks it gives him better shot at a scholarship for D1. He was told to he could walk on and get a little help but juco were offering him a near full ride. Took it because of money. Murray st. Is supposed to be at his games this weekend.

Yachtzee
02-23-2011, 12:34 PM
It's too early to tell, but I once had a scout at a Tulane game tell me that if college baseball switched to wood bats that half the D-1 programs would have to fold up shop due to lack of talent.

Any tampering with the bat in college away from the status quo is going to wreck havoc on the non-traditional, non-southern schools IMO.

Or it could mean better performance for non-southern schools that do well at turning out pitchers. I think a lot of the problem with the college game has been the way it has emphasized offense through the use of aluminum bats. With the new bats, maybe college pitchers will be able to have more of the plate to work with.

Razor Shines
02-23-2011, 12:49 PM
Or it could mean better performance for non-southern schools that do well at turning out pitchers. I think a lot of the problem with the college game has been the way it has emphasized offense through the use of aluminum bats. With the new bats, maybe college pitchers will be able to have more of the plate to work with.

Hopefully. I'd like to see a few more pitcher dominated games in college baseball.

Caveat Emperor
02-23-2011, 01:34 PM
Or it could mean better performance for non-southern schools that do well at turning out pitchers. I think a lot of the problem with the college game has been the way it has emphasized offense through the use of aluminum bats. With the new bats, maybe college pitchers will be able to have more of the plate to work with.

I think the more likely outcome is just a lot of 1-0 / 2-1 games in places like the Big 10 and Big East.

IslandRed
02-23-2011, 01:50 PM
I'm sure the initial adjustment is going to be rough. In the long run, players will adjust and adapt their swings just like they have to do when making the transition to wood -- gotta square it up on the barrel to hit it hard. In the short term, it'll be painfully obvious who has that skill and who doesn't.

reds1869
02-26-2011, 10:27 PM
I've watched a couple of games today; I love the change. The college version of the sport now resembles real baseball instead of something on my video game console circa 2001.

RichRed
02-28-2011, 01:33 PM
I've watched a couple of games today; I love the change. The college version of the sport now resembles real baseball instead of something on my video game console circa 2001.

Tell that to my alma mater. JMU opened the season with a four-game sweep of Bucknell: 37-7, 9-2, 26-15, and 19-12.

reds1869
02-28-2011, 01:47 PM
Tell that to my alma mater. JMU opened the season with a four-game sweep of Bucknell: 37-7, 9-2, 26-15, and 19-12.

Wow! Did they hop in The Way Back Machine and head to the 1870s? :eek:

RichRed
02-28-2011, 02:23 PM
Wow! Did they hop in The Way Back Machine and head to the 1870s? :eek:

If you're asking if they set baseball back more than a century, I think the answer is "yes." :)

All kinds of school records were set: runs scored in a game, runs scored in a four-game series (91), etc. They hit 23 (!) homers in the series and in the 37-7 game, they hit back-to-back-to-back homers THREE different times. Talk about video game numbers.

In the subsequent series against LeMoyne, they played some real pitchers' duels by comparison: 7-11, 14-7, 16-8, and 4-1.

Razor Shines
03-24-2011, 12:05 PM
Ok, I've been in Myrtle Beach and over the last 5 days I watched my brother's team play 9 games.

I can see a difference in the bats. Over the 9 games vs. 7 different opponents there were 4 HRs (one a 400+ft. blast by my bro :D). That seems way low. I played college ball at basically the same level and we would average 1-2 HRs a game from either team.

Could have just been an odd week. The sound is different you still get a little "ping" most of the time, but everyone once in a while you'll hear a "crack". I'd have to look to make sure it wasn't a wood bat.

All the games were at the Cal Ripken Experience down in Myrtle Beach. That's a pretty cool facility. All the fields are modeled after old baseball stadiums. There was Griffith Field, The Polo Grounds and Navin.

All the fields are that synthetic turf. That stuff feels pretty nice.

dabvu2498
05-10-2011, 03:13 PM
http://www.sportswriters.net/ncbwa/poll/

Just thought I'd trow that out there. Go Dores!

klw
05-11-2011, 12:54 PM
The coach at my old college sends out email updates every couple of weeks on the stats with the new bats. It seems that the league ERA is down about a run since last year and all the offensive stats were down significantly as well.

Slyder
05-11-2011, 01:10 PM
The coach at my old college sends out email updates every couple of weeks on the stats with the new bats. It seems that the league ERA is down about a run since last year and all the offensive stats were down significantly as well.

Less excuses for scouts to goof up power predictions. Baseball as a whole feel in love with the long ball and everything was tilted to help push those up. Now minus Steroids we're seeing a return to an era where basics is more important, it might take a couple years but I think we will see more of a game where it might slightly be tilted to favor the pitchers but with the bandboxes in the league serving as a balance for hitters.

Red Leader
05-11-2011, 01:35 PM
Ok, I've been in Myrtle Beach and over the last 5 days I watched my brother's team play 9 games.

I can see a difference in the bats. Over the 9 games vs. 7 different opponents there were 4 HRs (one a 400+ft. blast by my bro :D). That seems way low. I played college ball at basically the same level and we would average 1-2 HRs a game from either team.

Could have just been an odd week. The sound is different you still get a little "ping" most of the time, but everyone once in a while you'll hear a "crack". I'd have to look to make sure it wasn't a wood bat.

All the games were at the Cal Ripken Experience down in Myrtle Beach. That's a pretty cool facility. All the fields are modeled after old baseball stadiums. There was Griffith Field, The Polo Grounds and Navin.

All the fields are that synthetic turf. That stuff feels pretty nice.

We're likely taking our 13U team to the Ripken Academy next summer. I've only heard great things about that place.


I'm going to start a new thread to discuss the new bat regulations, a place to post reviews of BBCOR bats, experiences, etc for YOUTH baseball. I was going to continue that discussion in this thread, but don't want to ruin the discussion about NCAA baseball.