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Oxblood
02-23-2011, 04:19 PM
Heard Mike & Mike talking about contraction this morning and it got me thinking. For the good of baseball contraction needs to happen, I believe it would strengthen the sport and return it to the "national pastime". Below would be my new alignment. What say you?

National League

East
Philadelphia Phillies
New York Mets
Atlanta Braves
Pittsburgh Pirates

Central
Cincinnati Reds
Chicago Cubs
St. Louis Cardinals
Milwaukee Brewers

West
LA Dodgers
San Francisco Giants
San Diego Padres
Houston Astros

American League

East
New York Yankees
Boston Red Sox
Baltimore Orioles
Cleveland Indians

Central
Detroit Tigers
Minnesota Twins
Chicago White Sox
Kansas City Royals

West
Anaheim Angels
Oakland A's
Seattle Mariners
Texas Rangers

Playoffs would remain the same, 3 division winners and a wild card.

brm7675
02-23-2011, 04:37 PM
How do you justify the teams you removed?

swaisuc
02-23-2011, 04:53 PM
I don't see the need personally, but regardless I'd say Colorado and Toronto are safe simply because of their fan bases. Toronto also has an appeal as the only Canadian team.

If for some reason they went to 24 teams, keep those 2 and get rid of Pittsburgh and Kansas City. They might have more history than the other two, but they bring way less to the table in terms of the present and the future.

Revering4Blue
02-23-2011, 09:55 PM
Contraction a pipe dream that shouldn't be realized


Of course, the beauty of contraction arguments is that they never make any sense. No league has the money to pay off owners to disappear -- that's how Selig's early 2000s suggestion about contraction died so quickly.

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/14729426/contraction-a-pipe-dream-that-shouldnt-be-realized

Oxblood
02-24-2011, 03:45 PM
Probably won't happen, but it should. Would be sweet IMO.

Way too many teams right now and squads like Florida barely have a fan base.

DirtyBaker
02-24-2011, 04:42 PM
It's not fair to take away both Florida teams and have California keep all 5 of theirs, but I can see the logic behind it. If the Reds disappeared over night, many of us wouldn't automatically become fans of the Indians.

What really needs to happen is a realignment. Having 6 teams in the NL central and 4 in the AL west has always bothered me.

mlh1981
02-24-2011, 08:13 PM
Florida is getting a new stadium, so they aren't going anywhere.

Also, for the teams removed, being as how most teams have new stadiums, just what in the hell do they do with the ballparks? In most cases, they are taxpayer funded, so I'm not sure having no primary tenant would go over well.

VottoFan54
02-24-2011, 11:55 PM
What really needs to happen is a realignment. Having 6 teams in the NL central and 4 in the AL west has always bothered me.

I agree, this is one of the stupidest things in sports when teams like the Reds have to beat out 5 other teams to win the division yet the Athletics only have to be better than 3 other teams.

takealeake
02-25-2011, 12:57 AM
The time for contraction has passed. Who do you contract now? The Expos have moved to Washington and with a new stadium, the Marlins are moving to a new stadium, Tampa is working on a new stadium and is a contender, the Twins are always a playoff team and have a new stadium. These were the teams mentioned a few years ago when it was brought up.

lidspinner
02-25-2011, 09:56 AM
you dont contract....you align teams based on payroll....you re-align every 2-4 years or so based on new payroll....bottom line is past history in divisions and creating rivals is just got to go out the window.....basically you put the top 4-5 teams according to payroll in a div, and the next 4-5 and so on all the way down the line....you can do this with both the NL and AL and keep the playoff system the same...so your wildcard will still more than likely come out of the high payroll div but your bottom 4-5 teams in each league will still get a fighting chance to make the playoffs and have a good chance at keeping their fanbase attracted to them past Memorial day......

I have thought about this for many years and this is the only win-win-win situation that can happen.....win for the players, win for the owners, win for the fans....

maybe later when I am not at work I will break it down and show what each div would look like...but at work, I just dont have time to do that....

bounty37h
02-25-2011, 10:11 AM
I agree it wont ever happen, however, the new stadium arguement doesn't do it for me. If those same taxpayers actually went to games, they wouldnt be considered (cough cough, Florida). Dont build a new stadium if you cant get people there.

Spazzrico
02-25-2011, 11:39 AM
If the Reds disappeared over night, many of us wouldn't automatically become fans of the Indians.



Frankly I wouldn't be a baseball fan anymore, I'd be so bitter.

lonewolf371
02-25-2011, 11:40 AM
you dont contract....you align teams based on payroll....you re-align every 2-4 years or so based on new payroll....bottom line is past history in divisions and creating rivals is just got to go out the window.....basically you put the top 4-5 teams according to payroll in a div, and the next 4-5 and so on all the way down the line....you can do this with both the NL and AL and keep the playoff system the same...so your wildcard will still more than likely come out of the high payroll div but your bottom 4-5 teams in each league will still get a fighting chance to make the playoffs and have a good chance at keeping their fanbase attracted to them past Memorial day......

I have thought about this for many years and this is the only win-win-win situation that can happen.....win for the players, win for the owners, win for the fans....

maybe later when I am not at work I will break it down and show what each div would look like...but at work, I just dont have time to do that....
So far the best suggestion I've seen is to just eliminate divisions.

Tadasimha
02-25-2011, 03:31 PM
Instead of dumping teams, shorten the season. Either get rid of games and go to a 154 game schedule again, or start schedulinng double headers regularly. Either way, try to have the season end earlier so that the World Series doesn't stretch into November.

brm7675
02-25-2011, 03:49 PM
I agree it wont ever happen, however, the new stadium arguement doesn't do it for me. If those same taxpayers actually went to games, they wouldnt be considered (cough cough, Florida). Dont build a new stadium if you cant get people there.

have you been to the Marlins stadium (cough/cough if you want to call it that)? It's a football stadium and not a very good one at that. Plus it's florida so it's hot, humid and uncomfortable. So unless the team is really, really good, i wouldn't go either.

Oxblood
02-25-2011, 04:28 PM
Good points by all.

I don't think they will contract that many teams as in my op but I do think that league set up would be sweet. Also, a 4 team division gives us a much better chance @ the playoffs year in and year out.

bounty37h
02-25-2011, 05:09 PM
have you been to the Marlins stadium (cough/cough if you want to call it that)? It's a football stadium and not a very good one at that. Plus it's florida so it's hot, humid and uncomfortable. So unless the team is really, really good, i wouldn't go either.

I dont know if your arguing or agreeing with me, but yes, I do know. Thats why I said it wont happen (contraction), but if it did, FL doesnt deserve/need a team, they cant draw fans, adn shouldbe at the top of the list of candidates IMO.

RED59
02-25-2011, 05:13 PM
I think the best thing to do would be to make sure that teams competing for a playoff spot should have the same schedule. This happens if you have two divisions in each league. All teams in each division play the exact same teams the same number of times. Top two in each division go to playoffs.

gedred69
02-25-2011, 05:56 PM
Lots of good input here. The thing that bothers me the most is the inequity the AL West is. A NL team needs to move there, by lowest seniority that would be Az. I think, If not, then it would be the Rocks. Then, Houston should move to the NL West. Problem is, no team wants to be more than 1 time zone from the rest of their division rivals for the benefit of their fan-base.

Nathan
02-25-2011, 06:23 PM
Lots of good input here. The thing that bothers me the most is the inequity the AL West is. A NL team needs to move there, by lowest seniority that would be Az. I think, If not, then it would be the Rocks. Then, Houston should move to the NL West. Problem is, no team wants to be more than 1 time zone from the rest of their division rivals for the benefit of their fan-base.

If you do that, than there will be an interleague game played every day or every team won't play on any given day, thus making the season longer (There will be an odd number of teams in each league). That is why Milwaukee moved from the A.L to the N.L in 1998 when Arizona and Tampa joined MLB.

Krawhitham
02-25-2011, 09:28 PM
Heard Mike & Mike talking about contraction this morning and it got me thinking. For the good of baseball contraction needs to happen, I believe it would strengthen the sport and return it to the "national pastime".


How does eliminating a team who does have at least some local fans create more fans across the country for baseball in general?

People claim football is now the countries "national pastime", but more baseball is watched each year than football

MLB has at least 2,467 games a year while football has 269 games a year, baseball needs to just average 11% of the audience that a football game gets to come out ahead.

If you want ratings to raise reduce the number of games, if each game carries more weight in determining the playoffs more people will watch each game. But I'm willing to bet at the end of the day the rating total figures will be close to the same.

KYExtemper
02-27-2011, 05:45 PM
The payroll idea for divisions is the most interesting idea, but I can only image what travel would be like inside of that division. It'd be terrible if you had a team like Pittsburgh with a team like San Diego in the same division.

The biggest problem for the MLB right now is getting a new CBA together. The last thing we need is a labor stoppage in another sport after the NFL and NBA are headed for work stoppages next year.

Tadasimha
02-27-2011, 07:37 PM
If you do that, than there will be an interleague game played every day or every team won't play on any given day, thus making the season longer (There will be an odd number of teams in each league). That is why Milwaukee moved from the A.L to the N.L in 1998 when Arizona and Tampa joined MLB.

That wouldn't bother me any if there were interleague games scheduled throughout the season. I'd prefer that to having the season stopping for several interleague series and then getting back to NL/AL play. Interleague play is not going away, so I'd prefer it be minimized to the occasional series throughout the season.

That said, which teams do you move to the AL to end up with fifteen in each league and five teams in each division? Moving the Brewers back would be obvious, but they've developed a great rivalry with the Cubs. However, moving Kansas City to the AL West and bringing the Brewers into the Central creates a rivalry with the Twins again and maintains the Chicago rivalry, albeit with the White Sox. You could shift the Diamondbacks into the AL West and then move the Astros into the NL West, which would be the neatest solution IMHO.

gedred69
02-27-2011, 08:23 PM
That wouldn't bother me any if there were interleague games scheduled throughout the season. I'd prefer that to having the season stopping for several interleague series and then getting back to NL/AL play. Interleague play is not going away, so I'd prefer it be minimized to the occasional series throughout the season.

That said, which teams do you move to the AL to end up with fifteen in each league and five teams in each division? Moving the Brewers back would be obvious, but they've developed a great rivalry with the Cubs. However, moving Kansas City to the AL West and bringing the Brewers into the Central creates a rivalry with the Twins again and maintains the Chicago rivalry, albeit with the White Sox. You could shift the Diamondbacks into the AL West and then move the Astros into the NL West, which would be the neatest solution IMHO.

Good idea IMO. But the Astros wouldn't like the 2 time zone difference, which I find a crock, when you consider the Reds, Dodgers, Giants, et al, were once in the same division.

webbbj
02-27-2011, 11:35 PM
i love baseball but removing teams would not restore baseball as the national pastime(whatever that means) If that means most popular sport then football will still be that.

I find baseball to be a regional sport. I watch the reds i watch no other teams or do very rarely.

I watch basketball. I follow the bearcats and NBA i watch a lot of other NCAA and NBA teams

I watch football. I follow the Bearcats, bengals, and SEC. I watch other NCAA, and NFL teams on the regular basis.

I find a lot of others to be the same way. I think when teams play 6/7 days a week there just isnt enough time to watch all the teams.

DannyB
02-28-2011, 05:30 PM
I agree it wont ever happen, however, the new stadium arguement doesn't do it for me. If those same taxpayers actually went to games, they wouldnt be considered (cough cough, Florida). Dont build a new stadium if you cant get people there.

They will be The Miami Marlins when they move into that stadium., for that reason.

DannyB
02-28-2011, 05:36 PM
have you been to the Marlins stadium (cough/cough if you want to call it that)? It's a football stadium and not a very good one at that. Plus it's florida so it's hot, humid and uncomfortable. So unless the team is really, really good, i wouldn't go either.

They are putting a roof on the new stadium and trust me-Florida knows about air conditioning.It will still be hard to draw fans though,they are building it in Little Havanna.

KYExtemper
02-28-2011, 08:41 PM
The great thing about watching Marlins games is how the bright orange seats in the outfield burn your eyes during the game. So many empty seats, but I have to give the Marlins credit for usually fielding a competitive club each year.

757690
03-01-2011, 12:02 AM
Baseball needs to find a way to solve the payroll inequity situation it currently has, before even starting to talk about re-alignment or contraction.

getfoul
03-01-2011, 11:28 AM
I think the best thing to do would be to make sure that teams competing for a playoff spot should have the same schedule. This happens if you have two divisions in each league. All teams in each division play the exact same teams the same number of times. Top two in each division go to playoffs.

If they're going to expand the playoffs in the next year or so, they should just eliminate divisions. Here's what I came up with:

Move the Colorado Rockies to the American League--both leagues will have 7 teams in the east time zone, 4 in the central, 4 in the mountain/pacific

Play the four teams from your former division 11 games
(Houston considered NL West, Colorado AL West)
Play the other ten teams in your league 10 games
(either 6 home/4 away or 4 home/6 away, alternates year-to-year)
Play 18 interleague games- played all season. Either one or three series going at all times.

Shorten the season by a week, and have 6 scheduled day/night doubleheaders.

Series Breakdown:
2-game: 2
3-game: 36
4-game in 4 days: 6
4-game in 3 days: 4
5-game in 4 days: 2

That's 50 total series in 25 weeks, compared to the 52 series in 26 weeks they have now. I don't want to hear about travel concerns. If they scheduled road trips that make sense, it shouldn't be a concern.

Top five teams in the league make the playoffs. 4-seed hosts 5-seed in best-of-3. Rest of postseason is best-of-7, and the World Series ends before November if they shorten the season by a week.

(I wanted to post this in the realignment thread in the Old Red Guard Forum. Feel free to move over there.)

KYExtemper
03-01-2011, 12:15 PM
I'm against an expansion of the baseball playoffs. You play 162 games and have more than an ample opportunity to demonstrate that you belong in the field. This isn't like the NFL, where you only get 16 games to get in. The baseball season is already long enough and as Marty said during the Reds spring training opener, how Bud Selig can profess that the World Series isn't going to go into November after adding another round to the playoffs is beyond me.

getfoul
03-01-2011, 12:26 PM
I'm against an expansion of the baseball playoffs. You play 162 games and have more than an ample opportunity to demonstrate that you belong in the field. This isn't like the NFL, where you only get 16 games to get in. The baseball season is already long enough and as Marty said during the Reds spring training opener, how Bud Selig can profess that the World Series isn't going to go into November after adding another round to the playoffs is beyond me.

I think 33% of the teams is a fair amount to qualify for postseason. And really, if you have to play a 3-game Play-In Series, you're not really in until you win that. So adding a playoff team will actually bring in more teams trying for the 5th playoff spot, and that will help attendance.

As far as playing this schedule and finishing before November, I'm glad you asked:

With a week off the schedule, Opening Day would be on a Thursday and the final day of the season would be on a Wednesday. At the earliest, Opening Day would be March 29. At the latest, Opening Day would be April 4.

When Opening Day is April 4, then Game 7 of the World Series would be scheduled for October 31—and here is how it would go:

Opening Day–April 4
All-Star Game– July 2
Final Day of regular season– September 25

Play-In Series (4-seed hosts 5-seed in best-of-3 series)
Friday-Saturday-Sunday (9/27, 9/28, 9/29)

Division Series –now best-of-7 series.
AL– starts Tuesday
10/1, 10/2, 10/4, 10/5, 10/6, 10/8, 10/9
NL– starts Wednesday
10/2, 10/3, 10/5, 10/6, 10/7, 10/9, 10/10

League Championships–
AL--
10/12, 10/13, 10/15, 10/16, 10/17, 10/19, 10/20
NL--
10/13, 10/14, 10/16, 10/17, 10/18, 10/20, 10/21

World Series–Game 1 on Wednesday/Game 7 on Thursday
10/23, 10/24, 10/26, 10/27, 10/28, 10/30, 10/31