PDA

View Full Version : BYU dismisses key player for "not following honor code"



WVRed
03-02-2011, 01:33 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6172760

Some of the rules on the "honor code"


Be honest
Live a chaste and virtuous life
Obey the law and all campus policies
Use clean language
Respect others
Abstain from alcoholic beverages, tobacco, tea, coffee and substance abuse
Participate regularly in church services
Observe the Dress and Grooming Standards
Encourage others in their commitment to comply with the Honor Code

BuckeyeRed27
03-02-2011, 01:57 PM
Well good for BYU I guess for sticking to their guns.

Razor Shines
03-02-2011, 04:05 PM
I heard on the radio today that a "source" said it was for cheating.

bucksfan2
03-02-2011, 04:11 PM
• Be honest
I am pretty sure I told a lie or two in college. Nothing major but not 100% honest.

• Live a chaste and virtuous life
Don't think I abided by this one in college. Don't a lot of Mormans get married early and finish school at an older age because of their missions? I guess if you marry at the age of 18 its easier to live a chaste lift.

• Obey the law and all campus policies
I am pretty sure I broke a campus law during my time in college.

• Use clean language
Fail

• Respect others
I did this.

• Abstain from alcoholic beverages, tobacco, tea, coffee and substance abuse
Fail, fail, pass, fail, pass.

• Participate regularly in church services
Fail.

• Observe the Dress and Grooming Standards
I went times without shaving for a week or two. I liked the freedom.

• Encourage others in their commitment to comply with the Honor Code
I told a roommate to have a drink. So I guess I failed that.

Don't get me wrong I realize that BYU is a Mormon School and have different principles that most universities in America. But good lord those are some strict guidelines. Could you imagine if ND or BC or any other Catholic University mandated that all students followed Vatican 2 to a tee?

kaldaniels
03-02-2011, 04:41 PM
Don't get me wrong I realize that BYU is a Mormon School and have different principles that most universities in America. But good lord those are some strict guidelines. Could you imagine if ND or BC or any other Catholic University mandated that all students followed Vatican 2 to a tee?

Yeah, I'd never fit in there. Having said that, no one has a gun to these players' heads when it comes to choosing to attend BYU. How did Jim McMahon survive there?

Hoosier Red
03-02-2011, 04:57 PM
Yeah, I'd never fit in there. Having said that, no one has a gun to these players' heads when it comes to choosing to attend BYU. How did Jim McMahon survive there?

If I recall the rumors correctly, they overlooked an awful lot.

I was listening to ESPN radio this morning and Colin Cowherd was talking about how impressive it is that they're able to field such competitive teams when they make all the students comply with such a strict code, but my guess is that if you're raised as a LDS(Over 13 million members worldwide.)
a) These things don't seem strange to you by the time you get to college, and b) Brigham Young is probably the ultimate place to attend.

It's sort of like what going to Notre Dame was for the Catholic immigrants in the 30's,40's, 50's etc.. It was the ultimate place to go, and as opposed to the rest of the world which spit on you, going to Notre Dame meant the vast majority of the people there were Catholic just like you.

kaldaniels
03-02-2011, 04:59 PM
As an aside re:college football/off-field behavior, check out this report from SI.com.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/the_bonus/02/27/cfb.crime/index.html

Found it very interesting one of the schools with the most offenders was.....Boise State.

Razor Shines
03-02-2011, 07:22 PM
Steve Young was just on and said that usually it's more of the "spirit of the law" so he must have done something major.

Redhook
03-02-2011, 09:16 PM
The only question I have about this is why can't they drink tea? Tea, really?

Orenda
03-02-2011, 09:40 PM
The only question I have about this is why can't they drink tea? Tea, really?

I think that is a caffeine issue. I think they consider it a stimulant but I'm not 100% sure on that one.

WVRed
03-02-2011, 10:12 PM
I think that is a caffeine issue. I think they consider it a stimulant but I'm not 100% sure on that one.

The Mormon's teach against caffeine.

Turns out according to the Salt Lake Tribune he was having premarital sex.

kaldaniels
03-02-2011, 11:10 PM
The Mormon's teach against caffeine.

Turns out according to the Salt Lake Tribune he was having premarital sex.

BYU better dig in, the press may hammer them for this one.

Boston Red
03-02-2011, 11:27 PM
BYU better dig in, the press may hammer them for this one.

Why would the press hammer them? I understand they are very, very clear about the honor code in the recruiting process. It's not like you show up on campus one day and they foist the honor code on you.

I think you'd have to be crazy to go there, but if you make that decision it's on you if you break the code and get bounced.

BTW, the Lobos are doing the hammering for now. Bye, bye #1 seed.

Hoosier Red
03-02-2011, 11:31 PM
Why would the press hammer them? I understand they are very, very clear about the honor code in the recruiting process. It's not like you show up on campus one day and they foist the honor code on you.

I think you'd have to be crazy to go there, but if you make that decision it's on you if you break the code and get bounced.

BTW, the Lobos are doing the hammering for now. Bye, bye #1 seed.

Best line of the night, "Brandon Davies is the only one scoring for BYU tonight."

kaldaniels
03-02-2011, 11:59 PM
Why would the press hammer them?

Like I said, it may. This reeks of one of those storys that could snowball if it gets started rolling. Augusta National is doing nothing illegal, but it took a big PR hit a few years back. (Not trying to compare apples to apples, but sometimes the media likes to champion a cause) The media is nowhere close to being as conservative as BYU...I can see Davies being made out to be the victim here.

But again, it could go either way.

paintmered
03-03-2011, 12:02 AM
Meanwhile, BYU is down big at home against New Mexico.

Adios, 1 seed.

bucksfan2
03-03-2011, 08:32 AM
I heard on Mike and Mike this morning that it was "relations with his girlfriend" that got him booted. Someone must have had a serious grudge against Davies or his girlfriend to report this.

WVRed
03-03-2011, 10:22 AM
I heard on Mike and Mike this morning that it was "relations with his girlfriend" that got him booted. Someone must have had a serious grudge against Davies or his girlfriend to report this.

I may share more in detail on this later (kinda pressed for time right now), but a lot of these colleges have "spies" throughout the community that nark on the students anytime they are doing something wrong. One Christian college I know in Florida is so extensive with their rules its not even funny.

Reds Freak
03-03-2011, 10:24 AM
Regardless of how silly this honor code might be, it's incredibly refreshing for a college coach and a university to stand up for the values they believe in when they know it's going to cost them big time on the court...

OSU, Tressel, yea I'm looking at you...

WVRed
03-03-2011, 10:39 AM
Regardless of how silly this honor code might be, it's incredibly refreshing for a college coach and a university to stand up for the values they believe in when they know it's going to cost them big time on the court...

OSU, Tressel, yea I'm looking at you...

What?

Redsfan320
03-03-2011, 10:51 AM
One Christian college I know in Florida is so extensive with their rules its not even funny.

Let me guess... Pensacola Christian College.

320

dougdirt
03-03-2011, 10:55 AM
Steve Young was just on and said that usually it's more of the "spirit of the law" so he must have done something major.
Steve Young can say that.... his family started the school.

Sea Ray
03-03-2011, 11:00 AM
Steve Young can say that.... his family started the school.

Well does "relations" with a girlfriend constitute something major?

Razor Shines
03-03-2011, 11:09 AM
Well does "relations" with a girlfriend constitute something major?

For Mormons? Yeah, I would think so.

jredmo2
03-03-2011, 11:19 AM
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.affirmation.org/images/film/orgazmo_01.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.thelmagazine.com/TheMeasure/archives/2010/04/16/south-park-and-avenue-q-creators-bringing-mormon-musical-to-broadway&usg=__omL49srq6qM-Z3ErpP4xWd_b7Ew=&h=389&w=720&sz=38&hl=en&start=19&sig2=-LKbkZ74wm1_gcX8EC5jpg&zoom=1&tbnid=aPr9THRjT7KvZM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=175&ei=db9vTa3aLI_QgAf63J1X&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthe%2Bbook%2Bof%2Bmormon%2Bmusical%26 hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26sa%3DX%26rls%3Den%26bi w%3D1267%26bih%3D614%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C538&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=730&vpy=345&dur=2156&hovh=165&hovw=306&tx=154&ty=122&oei=bL9vTd6fDcSBlAedr8FJ&page=2&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:16,s:19&biw=1267&bih=614

Unassisted
03-03-2011, 05:12 PM
I read a tweet this morning by a former Ohio State basketball player (http://twitter.com/clubtrillion) who came to the embarassing realization upon reading the BYU honor code that he had complied with it during his college career.

(He called himself "lame" for following it... not me. ;) )

WVRed
03-03-2011, 09:54 PM
Let me guess... Pensacola Christian College.

320

Yep. Although from what I have heard lately, they have been getting pretty lax with the rules. A steep dropoff in enrollment and running off two campus church pastors will do that.

I actually at one point in time seriously considered attending there. It's a beautiful campus and in a pretty nice location (Gulf of Mexico). After researching it and going down there, I can honestly say that unless you are actually called to go there for ministry, I would not recommend it to anyone.

I realize this is a slight departure from the original topic, but there are some correlations. Check out this website from the Student Voice for more information on the "rules"

http://www.pensacolachristiancollege.com/rules.htm

The correlation is that like BYU, you make the choice to go there, although there are a lot of instances in PCC's case that I disagree with this, and I am sure there are other cases similar at BYU. Brandon Davies knew the rules but had scholarship offers to other colleges where this wouldn't have been an issue (Arizona, UC-Berkley).

The problem I see in the case of religious colleges is that the parents play a huge role in the children attending there. For example, a Mormon family in Utah telling their children that BYU is the only college we will pay for and the child relents, so do they really "make the decision"? Those are the ones who have no respect for the rules and typically do not last.

Reds Freak
03-03-2011, 10:44 PM
What?

I was comparing it to the situation at Ohio State a few months ago, where the coach and university decided winning the big game was more important than playing by the rules...

WVRed
03-04-2011, 09:32 AM
I was comparing it to the situation at Ohio State a few months ago, where the coach and university decided winning the big game was more important than playing by the rules...

The coach and university didn't decide that. The NCAA handed down the suspensions, not the university.

I thought Tressel strongarming the players into returning for their senior season before the bowl game was a bit much though.

MWM
03-04-2011, 11:07 AM
Like others have said, I have no clue why anyone who isn't devoutly LDS would want to go there, even for sports.... especially if you're non-white. It's a very judgmental "holier-than-thou" atmosphere there and few non-Mormons have positive experiences attending.

BuckeyeRed27
03-04-2011, 11:26 AM
Like others have said, I have no clue why anyone who isn't devoutly LDS would want to go there, even for sports.... especially if you're non-white. It's a very judgmental "holier-than-thou" atmosphere there and few non-Mormons have positive experiences attending.

Is Davies not LDS? He grew up in Provo so I just assumed he was.

Orenda
03-04-2011, 11:35 AM
I wonder how the story leaked out about why he was suspended.

Can't say I'd blame the kid if it was anyone close to him, being suspended creates the perception that he must have done something serious to get booted IMO.

He is a good player, if I were coach I'd probably send him a scholarship offer and a box of con...responsibilty.

WVRed
03-04-2011, 12:22 PM
I wonder how the story leaked out about why he was suspended.

Can't say I'd blame the kid if it was anyone close to him, being suspended creates the perception that he must have done something serious to get booted IMO.

He is a good player, if I were coach I'd probably send him a scholarship offer and a box of con...responsibilty.

As I said before, its BYU's perogative if they want to suspend a player for having premarital sex.

However, if I were the NCAA, I would take a different approach. Since he was dismissed by the school for such a frivolous reason, I would grant him full transfer rights and not have to sit out next season, even if he decided to transfer within the Mountain West or West Coast Conference.

Chip R
03-04-2011, 12:40 PM
Yeah, I'd never fit in there. Having said that, no one has a gun to these players' heads when it comes to choosing to attend BYU. How did Jim McMahon survive there?

From what I've heard is that they looked the other way on McMahon since he was so good.

http://michaelweinreb.blogspot.com/2011/03/on-jim-mcmahon-and-honor-codes.html (http://michaelweinreb.blogspot.com/2011/03/on-jim-mcmahon-and-honor-codes.html)

http://sportsbybrooks.com/byu-expelled-non-mormon-mcmahon-spiked-hof-20774 (http://sportsbybrooks.com/byu-expelled-non-mormon-mcmahon-spiked-hof-20774)

Puffy
03-04-2011, 12:45 PM
I think every girl at the college I went to also abided by this honor code. Not one of them would sleep with me.

MWM
03-04-2011, 01:19 PM
Is Davies not LDS? He grew up in Provo so I just assumed he was.

Apparently he is. There are almost no black Mormons, so I assumed he wasn't.

As for McMahon, a big reason they're so strict these days is a direct result of his time in Provo. He was pretty much free to do as he pleased and they caught a lot of heat for that. Ever since Jim, they've cracked down and are not known to make exceptions. But the overall culture of demanding strict obedience and coming down harshly on any who dare make mistakes goes beyond the honor code and athletes. They have serious academic freedom issues at the university and it wouldn't surprise me if one day they're accreditation is challenged. There are plenty in the academic community who already think it should be gone.

What's ironic is that the very person they've named the school after violates about half of what's on the current honor code. He wore a beard which is not allowed. He drank alcohol, tea, and coffee and certainly had sex with a lot of women who were not "legally" his wife (polygamous marriages were not recognized under the law). :evil:

Orenda
03-04-2011, 01:23 PM
As I said before, its BYU's perogative if they want to suspend a player for having premarital sex.

However, if I were the NCAA, I would take a different approach. Since he was dismissed by the school for such a frivolous reason, I would grant him full transfer rights and not have to sit out next season, even if he decided to transfer within the Mountain West or West Coast Conference.

couldn't agree more that it's BYU perogative.

Does the NCAA have a good track record of looking at case by case scenarios? I always got the impression they were more precedent fearing than they were interested in making exceptions.

kaldaniels
03-04-2011, 01:54 PM
Why would the NCAA make an exception? Davies agreed to play by the rules. So he is not a victim here. I'd rather an exception go (if they are handing them out) to a player who was promised a starting position, but deceitfully placed on the bench. That player would have been treated more unfairly than Davies if you ask me.

MWM
03-06-2011, 01:08 PM
Another example of the strict adherence to their rules is last year's women's rugby team at BYU. Last year they were ranked in the top 8 and reached the quarter finals of the national championship tournament. An oversight had them mistakenly put in a bracket that included playing a game on Sunday. They forfeited the quarter final game and didn't advance further as they were not going to play on Sunday.

It's a club sport, so it's not officially part of the BYU rules and they could have played without penalty, but the players unanimously voted not to play. This is how BYU operates. I have little doubt that if it were Jimmer himself, the same thing would have happened as happened to Davies.

The thing is, they love it when they can show everyone how righteous they are when these things happen. They had an offensive lineman named Eli Herring who played there in the early 90s who would have been a high round NFL pick. He declared to all NFL teams his intention not to play in the NFL because he didn't want to play on Sunday. The Raiders still drafted him in the 6th round hoping he'd change his mind. He didn't. This guy is still revered as a hero in the world of Mormonism and BYU. I think they're all nuts, but they simply don't care what everyone else thinks, for better or worse.

MWM
03-22-2011, 10:23 PM
For a little more clear view of the ridiculous extremes the BYU "Honor" code takes itself, check out the link below. A guy was fired from working at BYU when he let out an expletive after hitting his shin on something. What's telling is not the letter itself, but the comments below. You'll see a lot of the same "when you agreed to work for BYU, you signed the honor code and knew what you were signing" comments.

http://universe.byu.edu/node/14838

WVRed
03-23-2011, 10:49 AM
You have to figure with BYU in the Sweet Sixteen in New Orleans that revenue from the local bars will be down by about 25% this year. :)