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View Full Version : Gomes in LF...again.



malcontent
03-10-2011, 02:00 PM
Looks like Fred Lewis won't be starting much, if at all.

That's a shame, IMO. He would have given the team another LH bat, better defense in LF, along with good speed and decent OBP at lead-off.

Instead we get Gomes in LF, with Stubbs (or Bruce) leading off.

:thumbdown

texasdave
03-10-2011, 02:09 PM
That looks like your Opening Day starting regulars right there.

will5979
03-11-2011, 10:43 AM
So Gomes should just be benched after having a career year last year? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggggggggghhhhh hhhhhttttttttttttttttttt.

brm7675
03-11-2011, 11:19 AM
So Gomes should just be benched after having a career year last year? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggggggggghhhhh hhhhhttttttttttttttttttt.

And it wasn't that great, so would it not be wiser to go with better players?

BigJohn
03-11-2011, 11:52 AM
Really he had 2 good months, May and Sept.


April 20 60 9 13 1 1 2 12 3 16 0 1 .217 .254 .367 .620
May 25 88 16 32 7 1 5 22 10 24 1 0 .364 .420 .636 1.056
June 27 90 6 22 8 0 2 17 3 23 0 1 .244 .304 .400 .704
July 25 96 15 23 2 0 4 14 5 18 2 1 .240 .288 .385 .674
August 23 70 15 16 2 0 2 6 12 14 0 0 .229 .357 .343 .700
September 25 96 15 27 4 1 3 14 6 22 1 0 .281 .330 .438 .768
October 3 11 1 3 0 0 0 1 0 6 1 0 .273 .273 .273 .545

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7245/splits;_ylt=Ajt6tBk6_uSXwG0m5o98aVmFCLcF

signalhome
03-11-2011, 12:20 PM
So Gomes should just be benched after having a career year last year? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggggggggghhhhh hhhhhttttttttttttttttttt.

Gomes' "career year" was worth -0.1 WAR, per Fangraphs. So, yes, he should be benched unless a lefty is on the mound.

will5979
03-11-2011, 12:24 PM
Gomes' "career year" was worth -0.1 WAR, per Fangraphs. So, yes, he should be benched unless a lefty is on the mound.

Do you really think Fred Lewis is going to hit 18 homeruns and drive in 86 rbis? You all are quick to forget he was one of the reasons we won 91 games last year plus winning the Central, I never will forget that look on his face after driving in a crucial run in a game vs. StL last June.

FWIW none of this would be debated if the Reds would have been smart enough to hang on to Adam Dunn in LF...

Hillsdale87
03-11-2011, 01:19 PM
Nobody thinks Fred Lewis is going to hit 18 home runs or drive in 86. Fred Lewis contributes in other ways with better defense and more speed and on base skills. Gomes hits lefties very well and is a great piece of the team when used effectively. However, he should not play consistently against righties when he doesn't hit them well and then compounds that with poor defense. I love Gomes' effort and the spark that he brings to the team, but he has some weaknesses, so Dusty needs to utilize him properly

Kingspoint
03-11-2011, 02:12 PM
And it wasn't that great, so would it not be wiser to go with better players?

Exactly. Especially when you look at how putrid his second half was.

Vottomatic
03-11-2011, 02:31 PM
The failure to upgrade LF is probably the one weak link on the team.

signalhome
03-11-2011, 04:31 PM
Nobody thinks Fred Lewis is going to hit 18 home runs or drive in 86. Fred Lewis contributes in other ways with better defense and more speed and on base skills. Gomes hits lefties very well and is a great piece of the team when used effectively. However, he should not play consistently against righties when he doesn't hit them well and then compounds that with poor defense. I love Gomes' effort and the spark that he brings to the team, but he has some weaknesses, so Dusty needs to utilize him properly

Exactly. Gomes is a very good option against lefties. Lewis is a good option against righties. I see absolutely no reason to ever start either of them against a pitcher of same-handedness.

Krawhitham
03-11-2011, 04:49 PM
Really he had 2 good months, May and Sept.


April 20 60 9 13 1 1 2 12 3 16 0 1 .217 .254 .367 .620
May 25 88 16 32 7 1 5 22 10 24 1 0 .364 .420 .636 1.056
June 27 90 6 22 8 0 2 17 3 23 0 1 .244 .304 .400 .704
July 25 96 15 23 2 0 4 14 5 18 2 1 .240 .288 .385 .674
August 23 70 15 16 2 0 2 6 12 14 0 0 .229 .357 .343 .700
September 25 96 15 27 4 1 3 14 6 22 1 0 .281 .330 .438 .768
October 3 11 1 3 0 0 0 1 0 6 1 0 .273 .273 .273 .545

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/players/7245/splits;_ylt=Ajt6tBk6_uSXwG0m5o98aVmFCLcF


It's a good thing they average those things out

Krawhitham
03-11-2011, 04:55 PM
He would have given the team another LH bat, better defense in LF

He has a lower zone rating and Fpct than Gomes for LF. He also has less assists per attempt

Lewis is not the answer in LF, the answer needs to come from the minors or a trade.

But Gomes is good enough, I think only 2 or 3 LF in the NL out preformed him last season. Yes his streakiness is maddening, but once averaged over a season he put up good numbers

brm7675
03-11-2011, 05:48 PM
The failure to upgrade LF is probably the one weak link on the team.

I think a paring of Gomes and Lewis if used right is an upgrade. The problem is our mananger doesn't understand that.

brm7675
03-11-2011, 05:51 PM
He has a lower zone rating and Fpct than Gomes for LF. He also has less assists per attempt

Lewis is not the answer in LF, the answer needs to come from the minors or a trade.

But Gomes is good enough, I think only 2 or 3 LF in the NL out preformed him last season. Yes his streakiness is maddening, but once averaged over a season he put up good numbers

Not to sound rude..but what kool aide are you drinking? Gomes was one of the worse overall LF in the game last year. He had 2 great months and the rest wouldn't even get you playing time in AAA. His defense is nothing short of scary on a good day. This whole "team chemistry" is crap, to think a Full time LF of Gomes over a platoon of Gomes and Lewis is better is down right laughable. Gomes should NEVER see the playing field after the 7th inning in close game and should not see anywhere near the playing time he did last year.

Right now, I would rather play that young kid Sappet (spelling) who is tearing it up in ST and let him mature in the show over a full time of Gomes.

Altsciguy
03-11-2011, 07:42 PM
Can anyone say Heisey? Fast, made some great defensive plays and I like speed. HR's are fun but RIBies are easier to come by with speed on the bases. Last year I was talking Stubbs who was not getting on much, but when he did get on he never left the bases from 1st. Waiting around for Johny to wow us, or getting some young legs, speed and motivation, even with some mistakes is the way I would go. OJT time for Chris

brm7675
03-11-2011, 07:51 PM
Can anyone say Heisey? Fast, made some great defensive plays and I like speed. HR's are fun but RIBies are easier to come by with speed on the bases. Last year I was talking Stubbs who was not getting on much, but when he did get on he never left the bases from 1st. Waiting around for Johny to wow us, or getting some young legs, speed and motivation, even with some mistakes is the way I would go. OJT time for Chris

I would love to see Chris get playing time, but don't think Dusty see's him as starter material. I see him being the 5th OF unless Hermidea really impresses in ST.

LeDoux
03-11-2011, 08:32 PM
Does the lack of platoon mean I can't use "Gewis" or "Lomes" to describe the LFer? :(

Roush's socks
03-11-2011, 10:47 PM
Gomes is only the starter in LF until someone better comes along. That could be Sappelt, or it could be that blockbuster trade where we move a pitcher + Alonso for a proven hitter. I don't think the org sees Gomes as a great player, but he did have 86 RBI's last year and he has been in the MLB long enough that he is a proven quantity. He is an average LF. His WAR is right around 0. Teams usually don't win or lose pennants because of average players, but below average players can keep you fron winning. Gomes is like a place setting at dinner holding place for someone who will be here later. He is what he is.

Also, Lewis has never hit RH pitching all that great in the past. He certainly has not proven that he can OPS 800 against RHP. Personally, I'm not that hyped in him. I think he should get some starts against RHP along the way, but I doubt it makes much difference. Heisey is a great 5th OF because he can play defense at all 3 positions.

If Sappelt keeps hitting at AAA and Gomes is struggling midseason, I think he might get the chance.

Moosie52
03-12-2011, 08:19 AM
If Gomes doesn't produce, we will see Lewis in left. What have you done for me lately is the rule of the game.

Vottomatic
03-12-2011, 09:10 AM
If Gomes doesn't produce, we will see Lewis in left. What have you done for me lately is the rule of the game.

......and when both Gomes and Lewis don't produce.........I guess our option is Heisey?

Baker won't let it get that far. He will live and die with Jonny. :rolleyes:

wlf WV
03-12-2011, 10:50 AM
Sappelt is coming,have patience.Keep investing in scouting(international is paying dividends).Organizational development is where our success lies.

Phoenix2
03-12-2011, 01:14 PM
Left field is clearly a weakness going into the season- we just need to hope someone steps up and grabs the opportunity. I'd bet on Heisey before Gomes.

UPRedsFan
03-13-2011, 06:30 PM
Gomes should be a pinch hitter against left handed pitching only.

Give me Heisey and Lewis in left field. At least they'll play defense and I think they'll both get on base more.

Kiss the Baby00
03-13-2011, 07:54 PM
The failure to upgrade LF is probably the one weak link on the team.

who should we have gotten mr GM?

malcontent
03-13-2011, 08:18 PM
From Fay (via ORG):

“He was here before,” Baker said. “I know what Heisey can do. I’m trying to use the past and the present to see what the other guys can do. Plus, Heisey can pinch-hit well and we need somebody right-handed, so we don’t have all left-hander like we had a few years ago. Heisey can run. You can put him late for defense. He’s a good outfielder. Out of guys returning from last year, he’s the only guy who play center field, other than Stubbs.”

Yes, that's right. Need that RH bat. Team's in danger of having too many LH bats.

Probably should move at least one of the two.

:confused:

Kingspoint
03-13-2011, 10:24 PM
He was here before, Baker said. I know what Heisey can do. Im trying to use the past and the present to see what the other guys can do. Plus, Heisey can pinch-hit well and we need somebody right-handed, so we dont have all left-hander like we had a few years ago. Heisey can run. You can put him late for defense. Hes a good outfielder. Out of guys returning from last year, hes the only guy who play center field, other than Stubbs.



Baker continues to spout nonsense.


I love that Gomes is floundering (now batting .091), as it might be the only way that the REDS do something about getting him out of the starting lineup.

All of those things that Dusty says about Heisey is why he should be the everyday starting Left Fielder. We have half a dozen other players who can be the 4th and 5th Outfielders and do those things Dusty wants from a reserve outfielder. Zach Cozart, for example, can play any position. Juan Francisco can play LF, too. The list is endless. Gomes can be the 5th Outfielder.

Kingspoint
03-13-2011, 10:25 PM
Left field is clearly a weakness going into the season- we just need to hope someone steps up and grabs the opportunity. I'd bet on Heisey before Gomes.

It's only a weakness if Dusty makes it one, just like he's made the leadoff hitter a weakness of the REDS every season he's been the Manager here in Cincy.

bshall2105
03-14-2011, 12:03 AM
who should we have gotten mr GM?

Obviously Carl Crawford

Kingspoint
03-14-2011, 08:32 PM
From Rotoworld w/ Rotoworld comments:

Jonny Gomes went 0-for-3 against the Rockies on Monday, dropping his spring average to .080.

He's now just 2-for-25 this exhibition season. Not exactly what you want to see from a player looking to prove his big first half of 2010 was not a fluke, particularly after he hit .309 last spring.

Chris Heisey subbed for him and got the only extra-base hit for the REDS today with an RBI-Double raising his average to .320, his on-base-percentage to .393, his slugging-percentage to .600, and his on-base-plus-slugging-percentage to .993.

Gomes' is .080/.115/.240/.355
Heisey's . .370/.393/.600/.993

Both have had 28 Plate Appearances.


Yet, Gomes is the Starter.

Whatever happened to playing the best players? Why do we always have to have a Manager that out-thinks himself?

VottoFan54
03-14-2011, 11:06 PM
Obviously Carl Crawford

So you think it would have been possible for the Reds with their tight budget to outbid the Boston Red Sox for Carl Crawford? :confused:

lonewolf371
03-15-2011, 11:18 AM
So you think it would have been possible for the Reds with their tight budget to outbid the Boston Red Sox for Carl Crawford? :confused:
It's actually quite comical that Crawford's name and the Reds would even be mentioned together. I have a better chance of swimming across the Atlantic Ocean than the Reds did to sign Carl Crawford.

As for Gomes vs. Heisey, we all know Dusty puts a lot into the L/R chess match. Part of the reason Heisey may be riding the pine this year is his .169/.321 platoon split (oddly enough, he's great against R as R). He needs to learn how to hit left handers better to help protect Bruce.

BigJohn
03-15-2011, 11:47 AM
Who is Todd Frazier and why does he deserve to make the 45 and not Sappelt?
:thumbdown

Girevik
03-15-2011, 03:49 PM
So you think it would have been possible for the Reds with their tight budget to outbid the Boston Red Sox for Carl Crawford? :confused:

I think there was a bit of sarcasm in there.

mu4103
03-15-2011, 04:11 PM
As for Gomes vs. Heisey, we all know Dusty puts a lot into the L/R chess match. Part of the reason Heisey may be riding the pine this year is his .169/.321 platoon split (oddly enough, he's great against R as R). He needs to learn how to hit left handers better to help protect Bruce.

Heisey's minor league numbers showed him as better against lefties. Some people ("experts") even predcited that he would be in a platoon role in the majors. Meaning he would be coming in against lefties. I think last year's split was just an aberation (pretty sure I didn't spell that right) that had to do with limited at-bats.

VottoFan54
03-15-2011, 06:26 PM
As for Gomes vs. Heisey, we all know Dusty puts a lot into the L/R chess match. Part of the reason Heisey may be riding the pine this year is his .169/.321 platoon split (oddly enough, he's great against R as R). He needs to learn how to hit left handers better to help protect Bruce.

It's amazing that as a righty Heisey had a .925 OPS against righties and hit 5 HR in 112 AB but I am having trouble finding his minor league splits and unless those stats show that what he has done in the majors is a fluke I would not be against letting him have a shot at the other half of a platoon with Gomes, but I doubt Baker would ever do that.

lonewolf371
03-15-2011, 08:14 PM
Heisey's minor league numbers showed him as better against lefties. Some people ("experts") even predcited that he would be in a platoon role in the majors. Meaning he would be coming in against lefties. I think last year's split was just an aberation (pretty sure I didn't spell that right) that had to do with limited at-bats.
I think he had 100 PA against lefties but I agree with you that it might be due to small sample size. If he makes the major league roster he may be able to supplant Gomes as the season wears on.

Reds
03-19-2011, 07:30 PM
I've seen Lewis make plays in the field this spring that have honestly impressed me, mostly because Gomes is so sub par and I've become accustomed to it.

lonewolf371
03-20-2011, 09:36 AM
I've seen Lewis make plays in the field this spring that have honestly impressed me, mostly because Gomes is so sub par and I've become accustomed to it.
Don't get too excited. He's consistently been an average to below-average fielder over his career, and that includes his time at LF.

bounty37h
03-21-2011, 11:43 AM
Don't get too excited. He's consistently been an average to below-average fielder over his career, and that includes his time at LF.

I will give him the benefit of the doubt and let him prove/show us what he has/doesn't have. I argued the same when we got Ramon; thought he was a horrible and lazy catcher and wrote him off when the trade was made. I have been impressed by his play and attitude and think he made his own personal changes when he came over, may be new team/environment that helps.

mu4103
03-22-2011, 02:20 AM
1. What is the Reds weakest position coming into ST? LF
2. What player on the team has the lowest ST Batting average with at-least 25 ABs? Johnny Gomes .143 (Lewis is 2nd with .167).
3. Well who is performing the best in Spring training with at least 25 ABs? Leftfielders: Dave Sappelt .531, Hermida .360, Heisey .325 (All have different strengths in their numbers, but we will use BA as the base).

Anyway, I hope the only thing that comes out of this is Lewis is released and Hermida is kept. I think Sappelt will be sent down, simply for this reason - for a number of reasons, but a major one is that Heisey is hitting nearly as well. It is difficult to justify starting Sappelt over Heisey and I don't see the Reds starting Heisey over Gomes. It is a big leap to start over Heisey and Gomes especially when Heisey had a good spring. If it were a two man race, you could justify sending the rookie out there based on his spring numbers - but heck Hermida has pretty similar numbers as well.

The good news/bad news is no professional hitter can hit as bad as Gomes is for an extended period of time. Also, he doesn't have many K's so the balls gotta find a hole some time. So he will probably get hot for about two weeks to start the season, then the debate will be revisited a month later when he is hitting .250.

Something missed in all this is that Drew Stubbs is still only hitting .216. Spring training numbers don't count. Stubbs really seem to be starting to swing the bat at the end of last year (after being benched?), but I still have some doubts as to whether he can be a guy with a higher OBP than .330.