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dougdirt
03-26-2011, 03:06 PM
Adam Foster (ProjectProspect.com (http://projectprospect.com) founder) is at Reds camp today watching the Minor Leaguers. He is tweeting about it (http://twitter.com/#!/AdamWFoster). I thought I would just update this thread all day with his tweets on what he is seeing:

Getting my first close look at Yorman Rodriguez and Billy Hamilton's swings. Their skills have been vastly exaggerated.

Jefry Sierra looks impressive in the cage, though.

Seems to lack feel getting the barrel on the ball. Don't know how correctable that is RT @PhillyFriar: Hamilton's swing need to be reworked?

Hamilton is an excellent shortstop, though. He's very thin -- built like a gazelle. Ranges easily. Good hands. Strong arm. Fluid defender.

Neither has power. Gordon can swing it better -- and I'm not high on Gordon's bat RT @alskor: How does Hamilton compare to Dee Gordon?

Looked strong enough to me RT @kcscoliny: most others have said Hamiltion doesn't have the arm to play SS

I'd gladly take Ronald Torreyes over Billy Hamilton.

Lotzkar just took himself out mid-outing. He threw a few between-inning warmup pitches then walked back to the dugout pointing to his elbow.

Yep. BP and in-game. Dude is a stud. The most impressive low-minors hitter I've seen this wk RT @dougdirt24: Did you get video of Torreyes?

Hamilton and Yorman Rodriguez look just as unimpressive at the plate in-game action as they did in BP. I don't get the hype at all.

It would be one thing if Hamilton and Rodriguez at least lit it up in BP. They're almost getting the bat knocked out of their hands in-game.

I am sure there is more to come.

OnBaseMachine
03-26-2011, 03:15 PM
This is why I don't take Adam Foster seriously. Pretty much every other scout in the game love the tools of Yorman Rodriguez and Billy Hamilton. Bill Bavasi has gone as far as saying Yorman would have been drafted ahead of Bryce Harper had he been draft eligible. But based on one batting practice session, Adam Foster writes them off. Solid. Good grief. Oh, but Jefry Sierra (career .591 OPS in rookie ball) impresses him though.

I never took him seriously as a talent evaluator before and won't be in the future.

dougdirt
03-26-2011, 03:18 PM
This is why I don't take Adam Foster seriously. Pretty much every other scout in the game love the tools of Yorman Rodriguez and Billy Hamilton. Bill Bavasi has gone as far as saying Yorman would have been drafted ahead of Bryce Harper had he been draft eligible. But based on one batting practice session, Adam Foster writes them off. Solid. Good grief. Oh, but Jefry Sierra (career .591 OPS in rookie ball) impresses him though.

I never took him seriously as a talent evaluator before and won't be in the future.

Well, to his defense he did say that the pitchers were almost knocking the bats out of their hands. It doesn't take a pro scout to see something like that.

With that said, I did remind him that basing an opinion off of a guy in one viewing is often a poor idea.

757690
03-26-2011, 03:21 PM
Thanks.

Just curiously, is he taking into account their ages when talking about their strength?

OnBaseMachine
03-26-2011, 03:22 PM
Well, to his defense he did say that the pitchers were almost knocking the bats out of their hands. It doesn't take a pro scout to see something like that.

With that said, I did remind him that basing an opinion off of a guy in one viewing is often a poor idea.

As you're well aware, last season Yorman hit .339 with an .817 OPS as a 17-year old. Hamilton hit .318 with an .839 OPS. Obviously pitchers weren't knocking the bats out of their hands then. Ignoring that much larger sample size in favor of one workout/spring game is beyond ignorant, IMO. That would be like me saying Yorman has a chance to be a 60 HR guy because John Fay reported he hit a HR over a light tower in BP a few days ago. I can't take him seriously after that.

bellhead
03-26-2011, 03:23 PM
Also who was the pitcher? Where they going against Lotzkar or another team. As Lotzkar has top of the staff type stuff, also any news on him?

dougdirt
03-26-2011, 03:32 PM
Reds coach on Torreyes: "This little ____ gets the barrel to the ball as well as anyone out here. He's a rock."

dougdirt
03-26-2011, 03:33 PM
As you're well aware, last season Yorman hit .339 with an .817 OPS as a 17-year old. Hamilton hit .318 with an .839 OPS. Obviously pitchers weren't knocking the bats out of their hands then. Ignoring that much larger sample size in favor of one workout/spring game is beyond ignorant, IMO. That would be like me saying Yorman has a chance to be a 60 HR guy because John Fay reported he hit a HR over a light tower in BP a few days ago. I can't take him seriously after that.

Which is why watching a guy, especially against other pros, once and forming an opinion is a very poor idea. I have seen some really poor players do some very nice things in one game samples. I have seen Joey Votto look like an amateur as well.

dougdirt
03-26-2011, 03:45 PM
Very impressed with Carlos Ramos here at Reds camp. FB touched 94. Showed a feel for three pitches. Made some hitters look silly.

lollipopcurve
03-26-2011, 03:57 PM
Great thread Doug. Even if this guy is not a particularly trustworthy set of eyes, it makes for interesting reading.

dougdirt
03-26-2011, 03:59 PM
One thing about Adam, he is much more of a "now" guy than a "projection" guy.

redsof72
03-26-2011, 04:33 PM
Can't put much stock in this. Those guys are young and yes they are going to struggle against pitchers who have experience at higher levels. Does he even know who they are Facing? That would be my first question. Those guys are low A players, prospects or not. I do have a concern that the Dayton club will be awfully young by Midwest League standards.

dougdirt
03-26-2011, 04:41 PM
I do have a concern that the Dayton club will be awfully young by Midwest League standards.

For Reds fans, its a good thing if it happens. For Dragons fans.... not so much.

StubbsFan#6
03-26-2011, 06:23 PM
I'm not taking the opinion of Adam Foster over dozens of scouts that have raved about both Yorman and Billy. Interesting stuff about Ramos, this guy sounds impressive although it's to early to jump the gun on him. I'm assuming he will be in the AZL next year?

dougdirt
03-26-2011, 06:34 PM
I'm not taking the opinion of Adam Foster over dozens of scouts that have raved about both Yorman and Billy. Interesting stuff about Ramos, this guy sounds impressive although it's to early to jump the gun on him. I'm assuming he will be in the AZL next year?
That or Billings would be my guess.

dougdirt
03-27-2011, 02:05 AM
Another outstanding looking prospect from CIN camp today: Porfirio Martinez. 21-year-old fireballer (touched 95 today) with a plus CB.

camisadelgolf
03-27-2011, 03:17 AM
Martinez and Ramos have a lot in common. They both project as potential future closers.

redsof72
03-27-2011, 11:23 AM
P. Martinez was in a battle for the 12th spot on the Dayton staff but if Lotzkar starts the year on the D.L., then two of the pitchers in that battle will end up making the team. Good arm, very raw, still just a thrower, not a pitcher. Some comparisons have actually been made to Junior Martinez in terms of makeup, and that is not a good thing. He doesn't throw as hard as Junior but has not struggled with the ridiculously high walk totals that Junior had. Both are guys who came out of very tough living situations without much education and it is a slow process of learning how to go from that to all the things that go into becoming a professional. For these kind of prospects, Tony Fossas is a great influence because he understands how hard it is for a guy to maintain his focus in a game situatuon and apply lessons learned on the field when that person came out of an environment where every day of his life brought questions of whether he would have anything to eat that day.

lollipopcurve
03-27-2011, 11:50 AM
P. Martinez was in a battle for the 12th spot on the Dayton staff but if Lotzkar starts the year on the D.L., then two of the pitchers in that battle will end up making the team. Good arm, very raw, still just a thrower, not a pitcher. Some comparisons have actually been made to Junior Martinez in terms of makeup, and that is not a good thing. He doesn't throw as hard as Junior but has not struggled with the ridiculously high walk totals that Junior had. Both are guys who came out of very tough living situations without much education and it is a slow process of learning how to go from that to all the things that go into becoming a professional. For these kind of prospects, Tony Fossas is a great influence because he understands how hard it is for a guy to maintain his focus in a game situatuon and apply lessons learned on the field when that person came out of an environment where every day of his life brought questions of whether he would have anything to eat that day.

Nice post. Game played by people, after all.

Gotta root for these kids battling without a net.

redsof72
03-27-2011, 12:09 PM
The story was that Junior lived in a bus station in the Dominican for a time and that neither of his parents were around. It was hard to watch him pitch sometimes but I understood that Tony knew this was a kid with a 97 mph fastball and if he could ever figure it out, it would be a true rags to riches story. And on the other side of the coin, if you cut him loose, you are sending him back to a life that was right back where he was before without much hope for anyting better. Junior was a real quiet kid and I can understand why Tony kept giving the kid chances. Unfortunately it did not work out. We will never hear from Junior again but hopefully he finds his way.

There is a wide variation of players from the Dominican. On the opposite end is a player like Ezequiel Infante, who is very smart, focused, and really helps players like Junior with everyday life, translating, offering advice, making sure they know where they are supposed to be off the field.

As I have said a million times, these things are why you can't base everything on stats. Does the player have an aptitude for taking what he learned in the bullpen into the game? Can he maintain his focus, pitch after pitch, with no let-ups? If he gives up a home run, does he stay on his game, or just start trying to throw everything 100 mph? If the umpire makes a bad call or a teammate makes an error, does he keep battling every pitch, or does he quit? Will he work on the side between outings and will he stay in top notch physical condition? Is he too stubborn to listen to anyone? All that goes into the development of a player.

As you said, they are people.

OnBaseMachine
03-27-2011, 01:38 PM
Man, that's a sad story about Junior Martinez. I could never be a coach then because I couldn't have the heart to send the kid back into that tough situation. Hopefully he catches on with someone else and makes something of himself.

72, are the Reds planning on using Ramos as a starter? I would hope so. If he has a feel for three pitches then it wouldn't make much sense to waste his arm in the bullpen.

redsof72
03-27-2011, 03:23 PM
I am sure he will be a starter for now and they will figure out later whether his third pitch is good enough to stay as a starter.

Extended S.T. rotation will be off the charts with Guillon, Correa, Mugarian, Cisco, Ramos, Clarke, Amezcua. They only play five games a week.

Reds have been making cuts from the bottom of the system up. Next round might feature some of those guys battling for jobs at Bakersfield. Justin Reed was released. Pitching wise, you have guys like Janke, Jeffords, Bowen, Gaffney, Braun battling for a couple of spots. The injuries at the big league level are bad for everyone except the two guys who would have been released but now won't be.

JayBruceFan
03-27-2011, 06:29 PM
Do you know of anyone else that has been released? Or can you say?

Kingspoint
03-27-2011, 06:32 PM
Bill Bavasi is a poor judge of talent.

Kingspoint
03-27-2011, 06:36 PM
With that said, I did remind him that basing an opinion off of a guy in one viewing is often a poor idea.

Definitely.

Scrap Irony
03-27-2011, 07:01 PM
This is part of the reason I struggle with internet "experts". Foster is a 25-year-old kid who decided to start a web site. That's it. He has no experience in the game aside from writing for six months at Baseball America and writing stories for his college newspaper for a couple of years.

I like that anyone writes about minor league baseball, but to take his word on anything related to baseball is asinine.