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The DARK
03-29-2011, 12:01 AM
Want to see your own lists. Here goes mine:

5. Chris Heisey- Could be the one to go to make room for Sappelt's callup. Still young and cheap, with flashes of power and room to grow. Still our 4th outfielder though.

4. Kris Negron- Candidate for a solid future utility infielder, but as of right now the Reds have multiple options, not the least of which is Cairo and his 2-year contract. Perhaps he won't fetch much, but he should be on the table.

3. Yasmani Grandal- Normally, I don't like the idea of trading away a first round draft pick before he even has a full season under his belt. That said, it's hard to imagine a more potent combination than Mesoraco-Hanigan, and if the Reds are shopping for an impact player, he may be bait.

2. Todd Frazier- While much higher profile than Negron, he remains obscured by better options, and due to his recent decline and poor defense, it should be time to sell high.

1. Matt Maloney- The Reds management themselves have said that Maloney should be a great starter, simply not with the Reds. Currently, we have 7 starters counting Lecure in front of him, and his role as a backup could be filled by Willis. He would be a reliable back of the rotation arm for dirt cheap, and much better than most teams' in-house options.

GOYA
03-29-2011, 12:25 AM
1. Matt Maloney- The Reds management themselves have said that Maloney should be a great starter, simply not with the Reds. Currently, we have 7 starters counting Lecure in front of him, and his role as a backup could be filled by Willis. He would be a reliable back of the rotation arm for dirt cheap, and much better than most teams' in-house options.

It should be painfully obvious why the Reds should keep guys like Maloney either in their pen or ready to go in Louisville.

Louisville has NO starters that look ready to come up for a spot start and perform well.

mth123
03-29-2011, 02:19 AM
Want to see your own lists. Here goes mine:

5. Chris Heisey- Could be the one to go to make room for Sappelt's callup. Still young and cheap, with flashes of power and room to grow. Still our 4th outfielder though.

4. Kris Negron- Candidate for a solid future utility infielder, but as of right now the Reds have multiple options, not the least of which is Cairo and his 2-year contract. Perhaps he won't fetch much, but he should be on the table.

3. Yasmani Grandal- Normally, I don't like the idea of trading away a first round draft pick before he even has a full season under his belt. That said, it's hard to imagine a more potent combination than Mesoraco-Hanigan, and if the Reds are shopping for an impact player, he may be bait.

2. Todd Frazier- While much higher profile than Negron, he remains obscured by better options, and due to his recent decline and poor defense, it should be time to sell high.

1. Matt Maloney- The Reds management themselves have said that Maloney should be a great starter, simply not with the Reds. Currently, we have 7 starters counting Lecure in front of him, and his role as a backup could be filled by Willis. He would be a reliable back of the rotation arm for dirt cheap, and much better than most teams' in-house options.

Not a bad list. It really depends on the trade target. As GOYA states, the Reds need a guy like Maloney, but if the deal was say for a solid major league starter, then of course he could be included.. My List:

1. Yonder Alonso - Unless he takes to LF, the best way to get something out of him is in a deal.
2. Chris Valaika - Not sure how much value he has but I really don't like the base hit offense and mediocre defense type. He'd be an OK guy as a PH and extra player I suppose, but I'd want a better defender with more offensive skill as a potential replacement for Phillips. IMO, Valaika projects as below average across the board. Decent hit for average guy with little power, low on base skills, average to below speed and average to below defense. His versatility may be in question as well. If some team sees him as a future regular, deal him fast. Otherwise, use him as a throw in.
3. Chris Heisey - I still think he could be a decent third OF type along the lines of Cody Ross or a really strong player as a 4th OF, part time player. I'd be fine hanging on to him as a 4th OF, but he probably has value and the Reds coud part with him if it upgrades other weaknesses.
4. Jared Burton - Another guy that I wonder if he has any value. Everybody seems to be looking for arms for the middle innings and the Reds are going to have a numbers problem if/when guys start coming back. In the short term, I'd rather have a guy who can go longer stints. As the season wears on, Arredondo will probably be an upgrade.
5. Todd Frazier - Another guy who looks like a bench player (but a really good one along the lines of Mark Derosa). I'd be happy if he spent a year playing 3B every day in AAA to see if he could be an answer down the road. Keeping him as a strong bench player down the line wouldn't be the worst thing, but if he could key a deal for an upgrade, I don't see him as a first or best internal option at any position.

bucksfan2
03-29-2011, 08:27 AM
Want to see your own lists. Here goes mine:

5. Chris Heisey- Could be the one to go to make room for Sappelt's callup. Still young and cheap, with flashes of power and room to grow. Still our 4th outfielder though.

4. Kris Negron- Candidate for a solid future utility infielder, but as of right now the Reds have multiple options, not the least of which is Cairo and his 2-year contract. Perhaps he won't fetch much, but he should be on the table.

3. Yasmani Grandal- Normally, I don't like the idea of trading away a first round draft pick before he even has a full season under his belt. That said, it's hard to imagine a more potent combination than Mesoraco-Hanigan, and if the Reds are shopping for an impact player, he may be bait.

2. Todd Frazier- While much higher profile than Negron, he remains obscured by better options, and due to his recent decline and poor defense, it should be time to sell high.

1. Matt Maloney- The Reds management themselves have said that Maloney should be a great starter, simply not with the Reds. Currently, we have 7 starters counting Lecure in front of him, and his role as a backup could be filled by Willis. He would be a reliable back of the rotation arm for dirt cheap, and much better than most teams' in-house options.

With the exception of Grandal this list reminds me of a bunch of junk. Maloney projects as a 5th starter type, a more valuable tool to have in the Reds system then what he brings in a trade. Frazier would be selling at a low point. Heisey reminds me a lot of what Maloney would bring back in a trade. A lot isn't given up for 5th OF types, think the Chris Dickerson trade.

I don't know enough about Negron but I tend to look at this differently. As a Reds fan would you target a 5th OF? A 5th pitcher type? A Miguel Cairo clone? Todd Frazier would be a target but a guy who many would want to buy cheap.

Any trade list has to start out with Alonso #1.

Mario-Rijo
03-29-2011, 08:43 AM
With the exception of Grandal this list reminds me of a bunch of junk. Maloney projects as a 5th starter type, a more valuable tool to have in the Reds system then what he brings in a trade. Frazier would be selling at a low point. Heisey reminds me a lot of what Maloney would bring back in a trade. A lot isn't given up for 5th OF types, think the Chris Dickerson trade.

I don't know enough about Negron but I tend to look at this differently. As a Reds fan would you target a 5th OF? A 5th pitcher type? A Miguel Cairo clone? Todd Frazier would be a target but a guy who many would want to buy cheap.

Any trade list has to start out with Alonso #1.

Ouch, harsh much? Let's not forget it only takes one team to believe you are better than the "consensus" if you will. Besides that I disagree with you on Heisey, he isn't a 5th OF, he isn't even a 4th OF. Put his skill set together and with some more mechanical tweaking I think he is DeJesus like eventually. You might disagree but I don't think you can say he can't be that. I do agree with you on Alonso being #1 though but if buying low is how you would see Frazier currently you should probably feel the same about Yonder as well.

bucksfan2
03-29-2011, 09:16 AM
Ouch, harsh much? Let's not forget it only takes one team to believe you are better than the "consensus" if you will. Besides that I disagree with you on Heisey, he isn't a 5th OF, he isn't even a 4th OF. Put his skill set together and with some more mechanical tweaking I think he is DeJesus like eventually. You might disagree but I don't think you can say he can't be that. I do agree with you on Alonso being #1 though but if buying low is how you would see Frazier currently you should probably feel the same about Yonder as well.

Didn't really mean to be harsh, just more realistic. I can substitute Heisey's name with Dickerson or Denorfia or any number of guys like him. Sure they all can project like DeJesus with some tweaking. But look at Dickerson and what he has brought in trades. He brought an aging vet on his last leg, with a bum leg, for a 30 day span. And then he was recently traded for an A baller. Deno brought Saarloos I believe who wasn't anything to write home about either.

The issue with buying low on Yonder is you don't "need" to trade him. He may be your best piece but there is no pressing need to trade him. With the original list it just seemed to me of the common mistake to overvalue your teams own prospects.

medford
03-29-2011, 09:26 AM
In no particular order:

Yonder
Mes
Grandal
Billy Hamilton
Yorman

Those are your 5 biggest trading chips. If you want to bring something of high quality to the team, you've got to be willing to give up something of high quality, or be willing to eat a ton of cash on someone's deal. In short, I'd trade anybody on the team/system if it means a significant upgrade for the team for both the short term and the long run.

The DARK
03-29-2011, 09:29 AM
I see what you mean with Alonso, but I figure that after last season, he has much more to gain by first gaining experience with the Reds and proving that he really is a top prospect, and therefore has more selling power. So I say hold off on him.

I admit that some of these players are mode trade filler than trade bait, but I see them as being the first to be considered for that.

Other names I considered
Alonso- (see above)

Janish- deserves serious playing time this season, but how much better is he than Cozart, and should he be the starter from now until Hamilton (if he pans out)?

Bailey- Former top prospect, still a solid #4 starter, but the Reds need some time to assess his value.

edabbs44
03-29-2011, 09:49 AM
Top 2 names should be Alonso and one of Grandal/Mesoraco.

Mario-Rijo
03-29-2011, 10:49 AM
Top 2 names should be Alonso and one of Grandal/Mesoraco.

If they trade Mes they need their head examined. The guy is virtually ready and has a really legit chance to be special.

medford
03-29-2011, 11:25 AM
If they trade Mes they need their head examined. The guy is virtually ready and has a really legit chance to be special.

If they trade Mes for Hanley Rameriz, combined w/ a sensible long term contract for his services at SS, they should be applauded. Unrealistic, yeah, but at the end of the day, nobody is untouchable in the right trade.

edabbs44
03-29-2011, 11:37 AM
If they trade Mes they need their head examined. The guy is virtually ready and has a really legit chance to be special.

As Medford said, it always depends on the return. Mesoraco blew up one year in the minors after a few years of struggles. We all hope that it wasn't an aberration, but we also have to understand that there is some level of risk there as well. Especially since his success as primarily been in A and AA ball Let's not forget, Grandal was a top pick as well and hasn't had any time to really show his stuff in the minors yet. He could easily blow up this year.

And since he has 58 PAs above AA ball, I'm not sure that we can claim that he is "virtually ready". There is no need to rush him at this stage. Especially if he is considered trade bait.

Scrap Irony
03-29-2011, 12:46 PM
My list is a great deal different:

My top trading piece would probably be Drew Stubbs, as I think some combination of Chris Heisey and Dave Sappelt could man CF and provide most of the offensive and defensive value of what Stubbs provided last season. Too, Stubbs is, IMO, at his peak value, as he's cheap and the shine of talent is undeniable. He'd likely have a ton of value to a team that is deperate for a power bat who can also play CF, so teams would perhaps overpay (especially at this time).

My second pick would probably be Ryan Hanigan, as I think the combination of Hernandez and Mesoraco are good enough right now to approach the production of what Hanigan would bring, and I think position scarcity could drive up his price substantially.

Normally, Mike Leake would be ahead of Hanigan, but a combination of poor ST numbers and parent club need keeps him in Cincinnati, at least until after Bailey and Cueto come back (supposedly) after a couple starts. At that point, I'd certainly dangle the former Arizona State phenom, in the hopes that he could net a top of the line prospect a little further away or one at another position.

Obviously, my philosophy is to deal the more expensive player. This only holds true for those that I believe will be average or a little above. For example, I'd much rather deal Yonder Alonso than Joey Votto because, although he's expensive and soon to be even moreso, Votto is an MVP-caliber player. Based on his minor league track record, I just don't think Alonso profiles as anywhere near that. Few do. I do think he might, with a bit of polishing in AAA, garner a decent low level prospect a few years away from the majors, a la Leake.

My final trading piece is based on perceived value and likely production. Which prospect is at the apex of his perceived value, likely not to help the Reds all that much, and/ or is intriguing enough for other teams to sit up and take notice. At this point, I'd argue Billy Hamilton or Yorman Rodriguez both fit that bill. Both are "hot" prospects, but have quite a few levels and hurdles to overcome before becoming Cincinnati Reds. Both have questions. Will Rodriguez have enough patience to hit as he moves up the ladder? Will Hamilton continue to display enough power to keep opposing pitchers from really busting the strike zone? Neither prospect is likely to prove those questions wrong this season. Therefore, if the Reds were willing to gamble, to take on salary, and to go for it over the course of the next three seasons, I'd say both these guys make sense as trade bait.

The DARK
03-29-2011, 05:43 PM
Nice post. I'd argue that Hernandez is a better trade piece than Hanigan, given that Hanigan provides more intangibles (familiarity with the club and minor league system, defense, game-calling), and Hernandez provides more visible benefits (cheap World Series experience, coming off an excellent year, can play almost every day).

Also, while the hype surrounding Billy Hamilton may be a bit much, he plays exceptionally a critical position that the Reds have recently struggled filling, and would also make for an excellent 2B if Phillips leaves. Selling high on Yorman, however, may be a good idea, if the Reds are looking to add a LF bat that may play for the next few years.

I thing you're undervaluing Leake and Alonso, however. Leake was a top prospect before he reached the parent club, and now that he's made it and had a very good rookie season, it's time to trade him for a lower level prospect? The Reds are gonna have control of this guy for a long time, why is a low-level prospect the best we can get out of it, especially given that we're giving up those guys in Hamilton and Rodriguez? And given Alonso's second half (coming back from an injury) and place on prospect lists, there's no reason to give up on him quite so easily either.

I definitely understand Stubbs though. For a guy that frustrated the hell out of us last year, people sure seem to find a lot of value in him.

StubbsFan#6
03-29-2011, 10:22 PM
In no order:

Yonder
1 of Meso/Grandel
Boxberger
Heisey
Francisco

mace
03-29-2011, 11:10 PM
Well, I guess the drill is to identify guys whose market value, in your opinion, is probably higher than their actual value. That leads me to Alonso, Bailey, Stubbs, Boxberger and, hmm, maybe Donnie Joseph.

Benihana
03-30-2011, 08:26 AM
1. Yonder Alonso - would love it if he could play LF, but he's still the Reds top trade chip

2. Dave Sappelt - dont buy into the hype as much as some others. I'd love to sell high to some team (the Twins?) who could use him in CF. Reminds me a little of Heisey circa Summer '09.

3. Juan Francisco - some team believes his power is too good to pass up. I'd like to de-risk this one, and Frazier offers similar versatility with a stock price not as high.

4. Mike Leake - would be higher if not for the recent streak of injuries to the staff. I'm not as down on him as some others, but would've sold high this offseason for Kemp or Upton if given the chance.

5. Brad Boxberger- never liked this pick, and Im not sure what role he plays in the future. Sell his high draft pedigree now before he turns into Sean Watson.

Helium Watch- Yaz Grandal. If Mez and Hanigan continue to perform as expected and/or Alonso can stick in the outfield, Grandal could be on top of this list by the trade deadline.

Mario-Rijo
03-30-2011, 10:26 AM
If they trade Mes for Hanley Rameriz, combined w/ a sensible long term contract for his services at SS, they should be applauded. Unrealistic, yeah, but at the end of the day, nobody is untouchable in the right trade.

Certainly that goes without saying. Let me rephrase my stance, they are foolish of they are actively shopping him or deal him for anything less than the difference maker he could potentially become.

Mario-Rijo
03-30-2011, 10:34 AM
As Medford said, it always depends on the return. Mesoraco blew up one year in the minors after a few years of struggles. We all hope that it wasn't an aberration, but we also have to understand that there is some level of risk there as well. Especially since his success as primarily been in A and AA ball Let's not forget, Grandal was a top pick as well and hasn't had any time to really show his stuff in the minors yet. He could easily blow up this year.

And since he has 58 PAs above AA ball, I'm not sure that we can claim that he is "virtually ready". There is no need to rush him at this stage. Especially if he is considered trade bait.

Not sure we can't either.

redsmetz
03-30-2011, 11:08 AM
We need to remember with Grandal, that we can't trade him until mid August which is when he signed at the last minute. That is after the first significant "trade deadline" when players don't have to go through waivers.

Benihana
03-30-2011, 12:45 PM
We need to remember with Grandal, that we can't trade him until mid August which is when he signed at the last minute. That is after the first significant "trade deadline" when players don't have to go through waivers.

They could trade him as a PTBNL and then name him two weeks later. I think the Angels may have done this with Tyler Skaggs in the Haren deal?

RedsManRick
03-30-2011, 01:21 PM
If we're defining "trade pieces" as "guys who we could trade to most improve the 25 man roster", as of today:

1. Mesoraco: Looks like the real thing, could play in the majors today
2. Alonso: See Mes, but with a question mark about his power given his position
3. Leake: When we're healthy, he doesn't have a spot -- hasn't yet established a ceiling which may very well be back of the rotation
4. Billy Hamilton/Yorman Rodriguez: Lots of buzz around these guys because of their potential and tools, but they aren't remotely close to the majors and could easily flame out before getting here. Cashing in now to capitalize on the current window could make sense.
5. Gomes: Addition by subtraction. The Reds would be a better team with Heisey/Sappelt/Lewis playing everyday. Any return in the trade would be icing.

Guys like Maloney, LeCure, Heisey and Dorn have more value to the Reds than they do in a trade. People just won't give up anything of value for back-end of the roster guys. They could be solid sweeteners at the deadline, but they will not anchor a trade which nets us an impact player.

REDREAD
03-31-2011, 11:16 PM
My top trade bait..
1. Volquez (although it's probably too late).. I'd rather keep Leake over Volquez at this point, if some team is still enamored with Volquez's potential.
I honestly don't think this guy will ever be consistent again. Hope I am wrong.

2. Fransisco.. Lots of power, but no glove.. If someone gets excited by his offensive potential and offers good value, take it.

3. Alonso..

4. One of the catching prospects.

I would want to keep Billy Hamilton.. Maybe he flames out, but the Reds need a starting Middle infielder soon. I am not shopping Stubbs any time soon. It took us forever to get a decent CF again. Other than Josh Hamilton's brief stay, CF been a desert ever since Jr got hurt.


A guy like Maloney or LeCure is probably only useful if you are trading for an expensive starting pitcher from a rebuilding team.. then the team dealing the pitcher can use Maloney to finish the season.

Seriously, Maloney is kind of like a Royce Clayton when we got Clayton.. He's not really an upgrade to anyone.. Sure, if he's a free agent, maybe one or two teams would take a flyer on him, but no team is going to give up anything to get him.

The fact that Maloney couldn't even make the opening day roster with all the injuries speaks volumes of what the Reds think of him.

OnBaseMachine
03-31-2011, 11:26 PM
The fact that Maloney couldn't even make the opening day roster with all the injuries speaks volumes of what the Reds think of him.

Um, Maloney DID make the Opening Day roster. He's in the bullpen.

Amazing that you're giving up on Volquez after one start.

reds44
04-01-2011, 12:27 AM
Mes isn't going to be traded. Look at the contract they gave Hernandez. Mes will be up Opening Day next year at the latest.

Alonso is no doubt the first name on the list. Heisey and Francisco gotta be on it too.

Benihana
04-01-2011, 10:44 AM
No way do I trade Volquez now. If anything, I'm thinking about locking him up while his value is at record lows.

How can you possibly think about trading a guy with Volkie's upside (and ML success),who's value is lower than it's been in 3 years, when your other top three arms are all on the shelf? Where is the logic in THAT?

PuffyPig
04-01-2011, 11:15 AM
3. Yasmani Grandal- Normally, I don't like the idea of trading away a first round draft pick before he even has a full season under his belt.

You probably don't like the idea becuase it's nort allowed. Players must be signed for one year before tradeable.

Patrick Bateman
04-01-2011, 11:34 AM
You probably don't like the idea becuase it's nort allowed. Players must be signed for one year before tradeable.

Not if you trade him for a 1st round pick in a future draft.
Didn't think about that one did ya?

bucksfan2
04-01-2011, 11:54 AM
No way do I trade Volquez now. If anything, I'm thinking about locking him up while his value is at record lows.

How can you possibly think about trading a guy with Volkie's upside (and ML success),who's value is lower than it's been in 3 years, when your other top three arms are all on the shelf? Where is the logic in THAT?

The guy has had one great 1st half of a season. After that his Reds career has been mirrored with control issues, a major injury, and a drug suspension. If that doesn't give you a great deal of confidence I don't know what will.

To be honest if someone were willing to pay up for Volquez's potential then I would trade him in a heart beat. Too often we become enamored with what a guy has the potential of doing instead of what the guy is actually doing.

OnBaseMachine
04-01-2011, 12:01 PM
No way do I trade Volquez now. If anything, I'm thinking about locking him up while his value is at record lows.

How can you possibly think about trading a guy with Volkie's upside (and ML success),who's value is lower than it's been in 3 years, when your other top three arms are all on the shelf? Where is the logic in THAT?

Agreed. Volquez is near the top of the list of guys I wouldn't trade. I love his stuff too much to trade him.

Kc61
04-01-2011, 12:02 PM
The Reds should be looking to trade Alonso and Valaika. I think both of these guys are hopelessly blocked at the major league level. If Phillips leaves next year, which I doubt, the Reds will look for a veteran rather than using Valaika as a starter IMO.

I would consider trading Cozart or Janish if the Reds deal for a big time shortstop, say Reyes of the Mets. Otherwise, I would hold onto both.

I wouldn't trade Sappelt. I wouldn't trade Mesoraco. I wouldn't trade Heisey. I wouldn't trade Francisco. I wouldn't trade Frazier. I think they all fit the Reds needs for the next few years. Grandal was just drafted, wouldn't deal him even if possible.

I would trade Lecure and Maloney as part of a deal for pitching. Otherwise, I would keep them.

The Reds depth is probably the best part of the organization. I wouldn't trade good prospects - except when they are major league ready and blocked. I would also trade guys for better players in a one-sided deal, obviously.

Scrap Irony
04-01-2011, 04:39 PM
Valika won't fetch anything more than what he can provide, as a decent middle infield option, a la Renteria.

Kc61
04-01-2011, 05:23 PM
Valika won't fetch anything more than what he can provide, as a decent middle infield option, a la Renteria.

I'm not suggesting the Reds try to trade him straight up for Roy Halliday.

Just don't see Valaika having much of a future with the Reds and I think he is ripe to be included in a trade package.

Benihana
04-01-2011, 06:18 PM
The Reds should be looking to trade Alonso and Valaika. I think both of these guys are hopelessly blocked at the major league level. If Phillips leaves next year, which I doubt, the Reds will look for a veteran rather than using Valaika as a starter IMO.

I would consider trading Cozart or Janish if the Reds deal for a big time shortstop, say Reyes of the Mets. Otherwise, I would hold onto both.

I wouldn't trade Sappelt. I wouldn't trade Mesoraco. I wouldn't trade Heisey. I wouldn't trade Francisco. I wouldn't trade Frazier. I think they all fit the Reds needs for the next few years. Grandal was just drafted, wouldn't deal him even if possible.

I would trade Lecure and Maloney as part of a deal for pitching. Otherwise, I would keep them.

The Reds depth is probably the best part of the organization. I wouldn't trade good prospects - except when they are major league ready and blocked. I would also trade guys for better players in a one-sided deal, obviously.

Kc, frankly I'm surprised to hear this type of rhetoric from you. The Reds must deal good prospects -not for the sake of dealing them- but in order to fill in holes during their window to contend. If you wouldn't deal any of the top 15 prospects other than Alonso and Valaika, you're not going to get much help in supplementing the major league squad, and you're likely to never win a World Series.

Imagine if the Reds could have had Cliff Lee anchoring the playoff rotation last year (or someone like him this year).

Imagine if we could get a bopper to anchor the middle of the order assuming Gomes pans out as expected, or Rolen's back gives out (maybe even permanently?)

The fact of the matter is every team will always have holes to fill if they want to contend for the World Series. The Reds are and will be no exception to this. If you are unwilling to part with strong prospects unless they are totally and completely blocked, you will likely never fill these holes, and probably never win a World Series.

The Red Sox had to trade Hanley Ramirez to get Beckett to put them over the top.

The Yankees were willing to trade Montero to get Lee, and probably could have won the Series had they gotten him.

The Rangers got to the WS because they were willing to deal Justin Smoak and others.

The Phillies had to trade Michael Taylor, JA Happ and several others in order to get Lee and Halladay at different points, who (the former) of course put them over the top in 2009.

Sure the Reds aren't big market like those clubs, but those are the types of clubs who win. Even Tampa Bay was willing to deal key parts for Victor Martinez a couple years ago. Ditto for the Marlins when they won their titles.

If the Reds are only willing to trade Alonso, Valaika, Maloney and LeCure, they will never win a title. Depth doesn't win titles, talent does. Great depth is valuable and keeps you relevant for a while, but it can also get you five consecutive second place finishes (like in the late '80s.)

Kc61
04-01-2011, 07:12 PM
Kc, frankly I'm surprised to hear this type of rhetoric from you. The Reds must deal good prospects -not for the sake of dealing them- but in order to fill in holes during their window to contend. If you wouldn't deal any of the top 15 prospects other than Alonso and Valaika, you're not going to get much help in supplementing the major league squad, and you're likely to never win a World Series.

Imagine if the Reds could have had Cliff Lee anchoring the playoff rotation last year (or someone like him this year).

Imagine if we could get a bopper to anchor the middle of the order assuming Gomes pans out as expected, or Rolen's back gives out (maybe even permanently?)

The fact of the matter is every team will always have holes to fill if they want to contend for the World Series. The Reds are and will be no exception to this. If you are unwilling to part with strong prospects unless they are totally and completely blocked, you will likely never fill these holes, and probably never win a World Series.

The Red Sox had to trade Hanley Ramirez to get Beckett to put them over the top.

The Yankees were willing to trade Montero to get Lee, and probably could have won the Series had they gotten him.

The Rangers got to the WS because they were willing to deal Justin Smoak and others.

The Phillies had to trade Michael Taylor, JA Happ and several others in order to get Lee and Halladay at different points, who (the former) of course put them over the top in 2009.

Sure the Reds aren't big market like those clubs, but those are the types of clubs who win. Even Tampa Bay was willing to deal key parts for Victor Martinez a couple years ago. Ditto for the Marlins when they won their titles.

If the Reds are only willing to trade Alonso, Valaika, Maloney and LeCure, they will never win a title. Depth doesn't win titles, talent does. Great depth is valuable and keeps you relevant for a while, but it can also get you five consecutive second place finishes (like in the late '80s.)

Sorry I wasn't clear. I'm willing to trade major players in deals that get the Reds a favorable return.

I thought the question here is what minor leaguers should the Reds look to trade. I would look to trade Alonso and Valaika.

Of course, Beni, you are correct that if a deal comes along for a high level major leaguer the Reds should be willing to trade quite a bit more.

Orenda
04-01-2011, 07:26 PM
Imagine if the Reds could have had Cliff Lee anchoring the playoff rotation last year (or someone like him this year).



Imagine CC Sabathia playing for the Brewers, imagine Mark Texeira playing for the Braves. If your good enough to get into the playoffs anything can happen when you get there. Having a big time player helps but it doesn't guarantee anything other than a team just traded future production for a rented mercenary. One an done type players don't do it for me, if they dealt for a controllable player or negotiate a new contract that's a different story imo.

Chey
04-04-2011, 05:16 AM
1-5. Joe Cassiere

REDREAD
04-04-2011, 04:20 PM
Um, Maloney DID make the Opening Day roster. He's in the bullpen.

Amazing that you're giving up on Volquez after one start.

Ok, was wrong on Maloney and opening day.. but he's the last guy on the depth chart and will probably be the first guy sent down when a pitcher gets healthy. He has not appeared in a game yet. The point stands.. he's pure roster filler. I doubt any other club is that interested in him.

I'm not giving up on Volquez.. Just being realistic. Don't think he's going to be the #1 starter that many are desperately hoping for. I predict he will continue to be erratic and frustrating, but will have the occasional brilliant start.

I'm glad that Volquez turned down the longterm deal the Reds offered him.

Of course, I will still root for him every time he pitches, but IMO, when the Reds' staff is at full strength, he's the #4 or #5 best pitcher.

corkedbat
04-05-2011, 02:05 AM
I've always been a proponent of dealing Francisco because I have never velieve his D would alolow him to be a decent NL starter. i've heard reports that he's shown solid improvemnt on the defensive side of things this spring. if so, and they believe he can come close to playing a league-average 3rd, I'd definitely hold onto him.

I've always said we should hold onto Frazier because he has versatiltiy and pop as a utility player (not so much as a starter).

If Yonder is going to be tried in the OF, the experiment should have been started early last year. If he can play a passable LF this year and show more power potential then I would hold onto him. I still would dealhim or a real outfielder though if the chance arose.

Mesoraco and Grandal would not be dealt anytime soon unless some one blew my socks off. I'd keep them as a catching tandem. I'd also work Mes at 1B and Grandal at 3B some in the minors to keep their legs fresh and to give them more versatility when they do make the big club. If they can backup the corner spots, you could carry both of them and a third catcher (like Fleury or Barnhart). That would leave Mes or Grandal free to PH on the days they weren't behind the plate or give a regular a day off.

I like Heisey, but I like Sappelt better. I'd deal Chris for anything that makes the club better. IMO, Negron can do anything Valaika can, plus he's a better SS. This is the year to deal maloney if he has another solid year. There are several interchangeable bullpen arms too that could make good deal sweeteners.

The DARK
04-05-2011, 03:59 PM
Mesoraco and Grandal would not be dealt anytime soon unless some one blew my socks off. I'd keep them as a catching tandem. I'd also work Mes at 1B and Grandal at 3B some in the minors to keep their legs fresh and to give them more versatility when they do make the big club. If they can backup the corner spots, you could carry both of them and a third catcher (like Fleury or Barnhart). That would leave Mes or Grandal free to PH on the days they weren't behind the plate or give a regular a day off.


Where does Hanigan fit into this? He'll be much cheaper, more experienced with the pitching staff, and as of right now a better defender. Those guys are hard to come by, yet infinitely useful to a club. What's more, Mes and Grandal both have the potential to be top-tier catchers. Unless you want to let go of Votto and move one of them to 1b, there's no reason to block them from starting every day. We should hold onto them for this season in order to see if they both pan out; if they both do, there's no reason to waste their potential on the bench when one of them could be the main attraction in a trade for a TOR arm.

bubbachunk
04-05-2011, 06:02 PM
Where does Hanigan fit into this? He'll be much cheaper, more experienced with the pitching staff, and as of right now a better defender. Those guys are hard to come by, yet infinitely useful to a club. What's more, Mes and Grandal both have the potential to be top-tier catchers. Unless you want to let go of Votto and move one of them to 1b, there's no reason to block them from starting every day. We should hold onto them for this season in order to see if they both pan out; if they both do, there's no reason to waste their potential on the bench when one of them could be the main attraction in a trade for a TOR arm.

Hanigan will be the backup to whoever fufills their potential unless he prices himself off the team