Congratulations To Aaron Harang

[GAC]

Regardless of his struggles these last 2-3 years, the guy has always been a class act, he and his wife contribute a lot to the community, and I wish him only the best now that he's back in his hometown of San Diego.

He had his debut last night and pitched 6 strong innings, held the Giants to one run on six hits, struck out six and walked two, and even pitched out of a couple jams, to get his first win as a Pad.

:thumbup:


http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/recap?gameId=310405125&teams=san-francisco-giants-vs-san-diego-padres

[Ron Madden]

Agreed, Best of luck to Aaron Harang. :thumbup:

[RedFanAlways1966]

I will always root for Aaron Harang (except against the REDS). :thumbup:

[cumberlandreds]

I will always root for Aaron Harang (except against the REDS). :thumbup:

Same here. I was happy to see him have a good game. He should do well at Petco.

[Bob Borkowski]

Good for him. I always liked him as a Red.

[wolfboy]

I will always root for Aaron Harang (except against the REDS). :thumbup:

I'll second that. He gave us something to be proud of during some bleak years.

[lollipopcurve]

Seconded again. It would be great to see him bounce back and have a good year in his hometown.

[reds1869]

I definitely smiled when the WP of the SD game flashed on the out of town scoreboard last night. I wish him all the success in the world and truly believe that big yard will help him.

[Degenerate39]

I wish Harang would've kept doing what he was doing in 07 or so. Imagine what this year's rotation would look like with Harang's 16 wins in it.

[OnBaseMachine]

I'd love to see Harang turn his career around in San Diego. I watched highlights of his game...his slider looked very good last night.

[REDREAD]

So is Dusty off the hook now for pitching him in that relief appearance? :lol:

Honestly, when Harang whined about that over the offseason, I lost some respect for him. I don't wish anything bad on him, but I wonder if he's going to pull out that excuse again during his next rough patch.

[RedsManRick]

So is Dusty off the hook now for pitching him in that relief appearance? :lol:

Honestly, when Harang whined about that over the offseason, I lost some respect for him. I don't wish anything bad on him, but I wonder if he's going to pull out that excuse again during his next rough patch.

It's extremely well documented that the relief appearance led to Harang altering his mechanics to deal with the fatigue. The change led to or contributed to his injury and ineffectiveness.

Heck, many people on this board noted his mechanics problems over the past few years since the relief outing. Now, the degree to which a person blames Dusty for Harang's inability to get his old mechanics back is up to them, but let's not pretend like it was all a cover story for Harang just happening to become ineffective.

In any event, glad to see the guy having success. Petco will help cover his flyball tendencies and hopefully he has been able to regain his mechanics that let him keep the ball down in the zone.

[WVRedsFan]

Glad to see this thread. Hope he wins 20 and loses to the Reds everytime we play SD.

[757690]

Have to admit, I was watching the SD game on my iPad at the same time I was watching the Reds game on TV. He really looked like the Harang of old, lots of swings and misses. Great to see. :)

[Matt700wlw]

Do the Reds get to see him on the road trip? Just curious...

[REDREAD]

It's extremely well documented that the relief appearance led to Harang altering his mechanics to deal with the fatigue. The change led to or contributed to his injury and ineffectiveness.
.

Ok, it looks like that infamous relief appearance was on 5/25/08
His next start (5/29) was awful..6 ER in 4 IP

However, in June 2008 , he posted a 4.42 ERA
He started 6 games, 4 were quality starts, including two starts where he went 7 IP and only gave up 1 ER. This is according to baseball-almanac.

So, June seemed like a pretty decent month for Harang.. So if that relief appearance did screw him up, there was a delayed effect.

But even if you think that relief appearance altered his mechanics.. Isn't there some statue of limitations for blaming Dusty? I would think that Harang had the entire offseason before 2009 to retool his mechanics.. Yet Harang was still blaming Dusty for his ineffectiveness prior to 2011.. ALMOST 3 YEARS LATER.. He announced that when he signed with SD.

So, my question is.. How many good starts does Harang need in SD to let Dusty off the hook? If Harang gets bombed in his next start, does he go back to blaming Dusty? IMO, Harang showed no class blaming Dusty for his own poor performance. That's why I am not going to root for Harang to do well. I certainly don't hate him, but he's just like any other non-Reds player to me.

[SirFelixCat]

I will always root for Aaron Harang (except against the REDS). :thumbup:

Absolutely. The guy seems like he was nothing but class and I hope he goes on to extend his career in SD! :thumbup:

[WVRedsFan]

So, my question is.. How many good starts does Harang need in SD to let Dusty off the hook? If Harang gets bombed in his next start, does he go back to blaming Dusty? IMO, Harang showed no class blaming Dusty for his own poor performance. That's why I am not going to root for Harang to do well. I certainly don't hate him, but he's just like any other non-Reds player to me.

It may have caused him some trouble, but how would Dusty have known. In a game situation, you do what you have to do and sometimes you make the wrong call. My think with Harang is that we got him from Oakland for a song and he came through big. He got the extended contract and gave big to the people of Cincinnati. He spent some of that money on the community and he was the perfect anti-idiot. He went out, did his job, and wasn't an embarrassement. He was a solid citizen and I have to hope he tears them up in San Diego.

[Chip R]

Ok, it looks like that infamous relief appearance was on 5/25/08
His next start (5/29) was awful..6 ER in 4 IP



He also got knocked around pretty good in a few of his appearances right before S.D.

Not quite sure what went wrong with him but two pitching coaches couldn't fix him. Maybe the guy in S.D. can. I hope so but it definitely will be easier pitching on the Coast than in GABP and some of the other places.

[RedsManRick]

Ok, it looks like that infamous relief appearance was on 5/25/08
His next start (5/29) was awful..6 ER in 4 IP

However, in June 2008 , he posted a 4.42 ERA
He started 6 games, 4 were quality starts, including two starts where he went 7 IP and only gave up 1 ER. This is according to baseball-almanac.

So, June seemed like a pretty decent month for Harang.. So if that relief appearance did screw him up, there was a delayed effect.

But even if you think that relief appearance altered his mechanics.. Isn't there some statue of limitations for blaming Dusty?

You're asserting a mindset where blame is a binomial and can only be assigned to one person. There's plenty of blame to go around here. Dusty shares some blame for asking too much of Harang and putting him in a bad spot. Dick Pole/Bryan Price deserve some blame for not being able to correct Harang's mechanics. And Harang himself probably deserves the most blame of all.

If you frame Harang's decline as something where blame has to be assigned wholly and at fixed place and time, there is no good answer. If you accept that his decline was a function of many factors, a series of events largely kicked off by Dusty's decision to pitch him an extend length in relief and bring him back to 3 days of rest to start, then all of these points aren't mutually exclusive.

[kaldaniels]

You're asserting a mindset where blame is a binomial and can only be assigned to one person. There's plenty of blame to go around here. Dusty shares some blame for asking too much of Harang and putting him in a bad spot. Dick Pole/Bryan Price deserve some blame for not being able to correct Harang's mechanics. And Harang himself probably deserves the most blame of all.

That's the best and most reasonable way I've ever seen it put about the "fault" of Harang's injury.

[REDREAD]

You're asserting a mindset where blame is a binomial and can only be assigned to one person. There's plenty of blame to go around here. Dusty shares some blame for asking too much of Harang and putting him in a bad spot. Dick Pole/Bryan Price deserve some blame for not being able to correct Harang's mechanics. And Harang himself probably deserves the most blame of all.

If you frame Harang's decline as something where blame has to be assigned wholly and at fixed place and time, there is no good answer. If you accept that his decline was a function of many factors, a series of events largely kicked off by Dusty's decision to pitch him an extend length in relief and bring him back to 3 days of rest to start, then all of these points aren't mutually exclusive.

That's a fair point.. I guess I have a bigger issue with Aaron whining about it, as opposed to people here speculating on it.. I mean, that's what message boards are all about.. discussing why Harang went wrong.

I appreciate all the charity work Harang does. He does seem like a nice guy. I just don't have the warm spot in my heart for him.

[Caveat Emperor]

Like all ex-Reds, he's dead to me until he retires.

[VR]

Like all ex-Reds, he's dead to me until he retires.

Don Caveat has spoken.

[WVRedsFan]

Just a thought. As of tonight, Aaron Harang has 3 starts, pitching 18 innings, allowing 12 hits and 3 earned runs. He has walked 5 and struck out 16. His WHIP is 0.94 and his ERA is 1.50. He's pitching much better than our guys and tonight he pitched in Houston. Just sayin'.

[MattyHo4Life]

Like all ex-Reds, he's dead to me until he retires.

Do you like Jim Edmonds? He's an ex-Red, and he is retired. :lol:

[kaldaniels]

Just a thought. As of tonight, Aaron Harang has 3 starts, pitching 18 innings, allowing 12 hits and 3 earned runs. He has walked 5 and struck out 16. His WHIP is 0.94 and his ERA is 1.50. He's pitching much better than our guys and tonight he pitched in Houston. Just sayin'.

The grass is always greener. Should the Reds have signed him in the offseason? I'll still take our guys going forward.

[LvJ]

I like Aaron and glad the ol' rang-a-tang is having success.

[WVRedsFan]

The grass is always greener. Should the Reds have signed him in the offseason? I'll still take our guys going forward.

No. The move was the only one they could make--too much $$. I like our guys, but only Arroyo is a true veteran. Harang would have been nice to have around, but he's at home and happy. And I'm happy for him.

BTW, I usually don't have any empathy for ex-Reds, but Aaron is different. He was the only pitcher for so long who gave us a chance to win and I'll always be greatful for that.

[kaldaniels]

No. The move was the only one they could make--too much $$. I like our guys, but only Arroyo is a true veteran. Harang would have been nice to have around, but he's at home and happy. And I'm happy for him.

BTW, I usually don't have any empathy for ex-Reds, but Aaron is different. He was the only pitcher for so long who gave us a chance to win and I'll always be greatful for that.

I agree. He was one of a few bright spots during the dark years.

[Always Red]

I agree. He was one of a few bright spots during the dark years.

Indeed, one of the best players during the Lost Decade.

Much like Mario Soto some 20 years earlier, never received his due for being one of the best pitchers in the NL during some very poor Reds years.

[PuffyPig]

Indeed, one of the best players during the Lost Decade.

Much like Mario Soto some 20 years earlier, never received his due for being one of the best pitchers in the NL during some very poor Reds years.


And like Jim Maloney before him, who was one of the NL's best pithers in the middle and late 60's, but was injured and basically out of baseball by the time the BRM surfaced in the early 70's.

[Always Red]

And like Jim Maloney before him, who was one of the NL's best pithers in the middle and late 60's, but was injured and basically out of baseball by the time the BRM surfaced in the early 70's.

yes, excellent point about Maloney. :thumbup:

[smith288]

I agree. He was one of a few bright spots during the dark years.
Dark years? He pitched for the Reds since 1991??? haha

[westofyou]

Indeed, one of the best players during the Lost Decade.

Much like Mario Soto some 20 years earlier, never received his due for being one of the best pitchers in the NL during some very poor Reds years.

Soto did get in 3 AS games, that's pretty unprecedented for a Reds hurler.

[_Sir_Charles_]

Soto did get in 3 AS games, that's pretty unprecedented for a Reds hurler.

Yeah, I don't get the "underrated" tag on Soto. He got plenty of props.

[CTA513]

Harang only won 6 games each of his last 3 season with the Reds and is now 4-0 after 4 starts with the Padres.

I'm betting Padres fans weren't expecting this kind of start from Harang.

[Ron Madden]

We can't claim the only reason for his success is PETCO Park either. Two of his wins were in Houston and Chicago. 'Atta Boy Aaron.

[GAC]

A 1.88 ERA and 1.08 WHIP? Are you kidding me? Good going Aaron.

[Joseph]

Overheard on the radio this morning.....

"Now that Aaron Harang is away from GABP, he's able to be the pitcher he was a few years ago."

Wonder why the Reds closed that pitchers park they had when Harang was good?

[Hoosier Red]

No. The move was the only one they could make--too much $$. I like our guys, but only Arroyo is a true veteran. Harang would have been nice to have around, but he's at home and happy. And I'm happy for him.

BTW, I usually don't have any empathy for ex-Reds, but Aaron is different. He was the only pitcher for so long who gave us a chance to win and I'll always be greatful for that.

I saw Sunday they've kept the Aaron's Aces ticket program for kids of millitary personnel. Jay Bruce has picked up the tab, but I was glad to see they kept Aaron's name on it.

[WVRedsFan]

Just amazing. 4-0 with a 1.8+ ERA. No HR's allowed yet and pitching, as someone said in some bandboxes as well as Petco. Yep, he's back. Guess the Friars got a bargain, eh?

As long as he doesn't beat the Reds, I hope he has a Cy Young season. He's really one of the good guys and the Aaron's Aces program just proves it.

[Captain Hook]

I'm still more surprised about how the last two years went for Harrang then I am that he's now seemingly got things together this year.Pitching half your games at GABP could really affect a pitchers approach and do some damage to ones confidence.It wouldn't surprise me to see Aaron have a few more productive seasons but unfortunately he really needed to get out of Cincinnati to do it.

[757690]

I wish Aaron the best of luck, but he had some nice 3-4 game stretches the last few years as a Red too. In fact lots of pitchers have nice 3-4 game stretches every year.

[mth123]

Harang's arm just hasn't been the same the last few years. He himself has stated that he's been pitching in pain and the last few seasons has seen his workload reduced quite a bit. Maybe that reduced load has gotten his arm the time to heal. My guess is that as the innings pile up, the discomfort will return and the altered motion that robbed him of his effectiveness will return with it.

Always liked Harang and I hope he's all the way back, but I'm guessing his arm will never be the same. IMO, his situation in 2011 seems a lot like Rolen's last year. Early in the season, he comes out strong and looks like his old self. After a couple months of playing, the physical issues will rear their ugly head and he'll revert to the lesser player we've seen the last few seasons.

Baseball is a long season. Ability to maintan that high level physically over the long haul is its most overlooked skill.

[Ron Madden]

Harang's arm just hasn't been the same the last few years. He himself has stated that he's been pitching in pain and the last few seasons has seen his workload reduced quite a bit. Maybe that reduced load has gotten his arm the time to heal. My guess is that as the innings pile up, the discomfort will return and the altered motion that robbed him of his effectiveness will return with it.

Always liked Harang and I hope he's all the way back, but I'm guessing his arm will never be the same. IMO, his situation in 2011 seems a lot like Rolen's last year. Early in the season, he comes out strong and looks like his old self. After a couple months of playing, the physical issues will rear their ugly head and he'll revert to the lesser player we've seen the last few seasons.

Baseball is a long season. Ability to maintan that high level physically over the long haul is its most overlooked skill.

Sad but true. Father Time and nagging injuries take their toll on all of us, even very talented Ballplayers. Never the less, I wish Aaeon Harang all the best.

[oneupper]

Overheard on the radio this morning.....

"Now that Aaron Harang is away from GABP, he's able to be the pitcher he was a few years ago."

Wonder why the Reds closed that pitchers park they had when Harang was good?

Adding to that thought. In 2008-2010, Harang had much better numbers at home than on the road. (too lazy to add them up...but you can look it up).

So much for getting away from GABP.

[Blitz Dorsey]

Harang got rocked tonight -- 8 ER against the Braves.

So won't the real Aaron Harang please stand up, please stand up, please stand up.

[CTA513]

Harang got rocked tonight -- 8 ER against the Braves.

So won't the real Aaron Harang please stand up, please stand up, please stand up.

He was just trying to copy Volquez.

[Blitz Dorsey]

He was just trying to copy Volquez.

But 7 of the runs didn't come in the first inning. :D

[RBA]

Harang got rocked tonight -- 8 ER against the Braves.

So won't the real Aaron Harang please stand up, please stand up, please stand up.

Looks like David Ross knows Harang pretty well.

Atlanta’s 34-year-old backup catcher caught Harang 33 times when they were teammates in Cincinnati from 2006-2008.
Tuesday night the former batterymates lined up against one another at Petco Park and the decision went to Ross.
Ross drove in four runs with a pair of homers off Harang

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/apr/26/ross-braves-hand-harang-his-first-loss/

[Ron Madden]

Harang got rocked tonight -- 8 ER against the Braves.

So won't the real Aaron Harang please stand up, please stand up, please stand up.

And we complain about fans of other teams?

[GAC]

One bad outing means what again?

[wolfboy]

One bad outing means what again?

He's just like any other pitcher?

[PuffyPig]

One bad outing means what again?

If you look at his 8 starts this year, he has a 5.05 ERA and has averaged less than 6 innings oper start.

His K-rate is down, his W-rate is up and he's averaging almost a HR-allowed per start.

He's no different this year than he was in the last two years, at least so far this year.

One bad outing may not mean much, but neither does a good one. On average he's not been a good pitcher.

[CTA513]

Harang now 7-2 after tonight which ends his streak of 3 straight 6 win seasons.

[WVRedsFan]

Harang now 7-2 after tonight which ends his streak of 3 straight 6 win seasons.According to ESPN, he has pitched 18.2 straight innings of 6-run ball. Wouldn't that be nice from our 5th starter? ERA of 3.78 (quiz--who on our startting staff has a 3.78 ERA? Cueto and who else?).

[PuffyPig]

According to ESPN, he has pitched 18.2 straight innings of 6-run ball.

What does that mean?

He's given up 6 runs in each of the last 18.2 innings?

That doesn't sound very good.

What does the "straight" mean? It sounds like it means he pitched 18.2 innings in one game. If the 18.2 innings was over several games (and it must have been), the word straight has no meaning.

[cumberlandreds]

According to ESPN, he has pitched 18.2 straight innings of 6-run ball. Wouldn't that be nice from our 5th starter? ERA of 3.78 (quiz--who on our startting staff has a 3.78 ERA? Cueto and who else?).

I don't really understand what you are saying about the 6 run ball???
Anyway,Harang,IMO, was psyched out while pitching at GABP. It got into his head and would have never been very effective going forward with the Reds. San Diego was the best thing to happen to him. He is thriving as some of us predicted. I'm glad he is as he seems to be a very classy person.

[VR]

What does that mean?

He's given up 6 runs in each of the last 18.2 innings?

That doesn't sound very good.

What does the "straight" mean? It sounds like it means he pitched 18.2 innings in one game. If the 18.2 innings was over several games (and it must have been), the word straight has no meaning.

Captain Literal has arrived!:lol:


I'm so happy for Aaron. I loved having him as a Red, and am able to enjoy his success for another team without having regrets that he isn't a Red.

[bucksfan2]

According to ESPN, he has pitched 18.2 straight innings of 6-run ball. Wouldn't that be nice from our 5th starter? ERA of 3.78 (quiz--who on our startting staff has a 3.78 ERA? Cueto and who else?).

Joey Votto hit a ball that may have hit the Tundra in left center at GABP, that ball one hopped the wall in San Diego. His home ERA is roughly 1.5 lower than that on the road. Harang is taking full advantage of Petco park. If he were in Cincinnati I doubt we would have seen anything different then what Harang had been over the past few years.

I wish him well but don't long for him to be in the current Reds rotation.

[mbgrayson]

His home ERA is roughly 1.5 lower than that on the road. Harang is taking full advantage of Petco park. If he were in Cincinnati I doubt we would have seen anything different then what Harang had been over the past few years.


A more detailed comparison:

GABP
Home 2005: 3.31 ERA
Away 2005: 4.30 ERA

Home 2006: 4.61 ERA
Away 2006: 2.98 ERA

Home 2007: 3.41 ERA
Away 2007: 4.06 ERA

Home 2008: 4.80 ERA
Away 2008: 4.77 ERA

Home 2009: 3.43 ERA
Road 2009: 5.18 ERA

Home 2010: 4.66 ERA
Road 2010: 6.69 ERA

Petco
Home 2011: 3.28 ERA
Road 2011: 4.84 ERA


Looking at these numbers, I find the 'Harang is doing well because of Petco' statements to be wrong. Harang has almost always pitched better at home, even when that was GABP. There is real improvement so far this year overall, his ERA is down 1.4 at home, and 1.85 on the road. But overall, his WHIP is down significantly, from 1.585 to 1.338, and his home runs/9 innings rate is down from 1.3 to .9 Of the drop in HRs allowed, he has allowed 6 in 57.2 innings at home, and 2 in 22 innings on the road. His HR allowed rate is better on the road than at home this year. It is true that he has only started 4 road games so far, and 9 home games.


But it is certainly worth noting that in four of his last six years with the Reds, his ERA was better at GABP than on the road (2005, 2007, 2009, & 2010), one year lower on the road (2006), and one year about the same (2008).

[nate]

2011
K/9
Home: 5.31
Away: 8.46

BB/9
Home: 2.81
Away: 2.82

HR/9
Home: 1.89
Away: 3.00

FIP
Home: 4.12
Away: 3.18

I'd guess that the road K/9 and HR/9 end up being a bit lower by season's end.

[mbgrayson]

2011

HR/9
Home: 1.89
Away: 3.00

I'd guess that the road K/9 and HR/9 end up being a bit lower by season's end.


Your HR/9 numbers are wrong. 6 HRs in 57.2 home innings works out to .94 HR/9 at home.

On the road, 2 HRs in 22 innings works out to .82 HR/9 innings.


BTW, my stats come from ESPN (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/5181/aaron-harang).

[CTA513]

Harang was placed on the 15 day DL with a right foot contusion after it finally looked like he might be getting back to the old Harang.

[nate]

Your HR/9 numbers are wrong. 6 HRs in 57.2 home innings works out to .94 HR/9 at home.

On the road, 2 HRs in 22 innings works out to .82 HR/9 innings.


BTW, my stats come from ESPN (http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/5181/aaron-harang).

I transposed the HR/9 column with the K/BB column:

HR/9
Home: 0.94
Away: 0.81

[mbgrayson]

Tonight Aaron Harang pitched 8 shutout innings to pick up his 14th win of the year for the (69-89) Padres.

He ends up 14-7, pitching 170.2 innings, with a 3.64 ERA, a 1.37 WHIP, gave up 20 HRs, got 124 Ks, and 58 BBs.

[tixe]

Good to see. Harang's a guy I'll always root for, no matter what laundry he's wearing.

[WVRedsFan]

Tonight Aaron Harang pitched 8 shutout innings to pick up his 14th win of the year for the (69-89) Padres.

He ends up 14-7, pitching 170.2 innings, with a 3.64 ERA, a 1.37 WHIP, gave up 20 HRs, got 124 Ks, and 58 BBs.Compare that to:

Bailey - 9-7, 4.32
Wood - 6-6, 4.84
Arroyo - 9-12, 5.09
Volquez - 5-6, 5,84
Willis - 0-6, 5.04

And each one of them, with the notable exception of Bailey has a higher WHIP than Harang.

There was talk yesterday that it was Harang's last game in a Padres uniform. That boggles my mind. They say he's not worth his mutual option for $5 million. Heck, we pay more than that for fodder.

[mbgrayson]

Lots of talk about Aaron's home/road splits. Here they are for 2011:

Home: 109.1 innings, 3.05 ERA, 13 HRs, 72 Ks, 35 BBs, .240 BAA. (1.07 HR/9)
Road: 61.1 innings, 4.70 ERA, 7 HRs, 52 Ks, 23 BBs, .317 BAA. (1.03 HR/9)

In 2010, here were his home/road splits:
Home: 75.1 Innings, 4.66 ERA, 12 HRs, 52 Ks, 28 BBs, .284 BAA. (1.44 HR/9)
Road: 36.1 innings, 6.69 ERA, 4 HRs, 30 Ks, 10 BBs, .346 BAA. (.99 HR/9)

The biggest single difference from 2010 to 2011 was BABIP and WHIP:
2010: .338 BABIP
2011: .302 BABIP
Career: .308 BABIP

Still, all Aaron did was regress to closer to his career norm.

2010 WHIP: 1.59
2011 WHIP: 1.37

There is no doubt to me that PETCO helped Aaron, but he improved quite a bit as well.