PDA

View Full Version : State of the Reds starting pitching and the future.



SidneySlicker
04-06-2011, 11:41 AM
I think with some time this year that I might be dissuaded from my standpoint of bringing in choo due to the play of Heisey. So this brings me to the question of what possible true #1 pitchers could be available at the trade deadline? I know this is very early for this kind of talk because alot of it depends on where teams are at in the standings, but what could the options be? The depth of talent and youth in this organization has, could allow them to make such a move.

I would be more than willing to part with Cueto or Volquez in addition to minor leaguers if the return was right. Cueto and volquez worry me as top of the rotation pitchers in the playoffs as they've been prone to getting lit up at times and i'm not sure the mental makeup is there. I like Bailey more as he continues his maturation process continues and he learns the art of pitching.

I love what I've seen from Travis Wood and I think he's a solid 2 right now and has a ceiling as a strong, but not dominant 1. I see Bailey and Leake being solid 3's with Bailey having a ceiling as a 2. Arroyo is what he is and I see him as a solid 2, but is at his potential ceiling. Which leaves Cueto and Volquez. Both ovbiously have the stuff to be legit #1's but I'm not sold mental make up will ever allow them to be more that sold 3's or 2's at best.

Stray
04-06-2011, 11:56 AM
The only 2 I have a lot of faith in are Bronson and Wood. Volquez does look shaky but I don't think it's fair to say it's a lack of a mental makeup, his problems since coming back from his injury are a result of poor control. If he can start to locate better I want him pitching in big games because he has the best swing and miss stuff on the staff.

I'm much more confident in Cueto than I am Homer Bailey. Homer can be great at times, look awful at others, and all the while spends most of his time on the DL.

Helms1
04-06-2011, 12:05 PM
The biggest risk factor for a big, career threatening rotator cuff tear is a small tear and recurrent impingement. I like Bailey and hope he thrives, but I would be interested in seeing a new scan before I put too much stock in his long term potential. However, count me in on the one in the hand worth two in the bush crowd. Keep and develope what we have for now. Remember, this winter the sky could fall without a TOR pitcher, a big time left fielder and an alternative SS. Things seem to be going ok without giving away the farm.

SidneySlicker
04-06-2011, 12:16 PM
The biggest risk factor for a big, career threatening rotator cuff tear is a small tear and recurrent impingement. I like Bailey and hope he thrives, but I would be interested in seeing a new scan before I put too much stock in his long term potential. However, count me in on the one in the hand worth two in the bush crowd. Keep and develope what we have for now. Remember, this winter the sky could fall without a TOR pitcher, a big time left fielder and an alternative SS. Things seem to be going ok without giving away the farm.

Point well taken. I just see how the reds performed against the top teams last year and how they stack up against the top competition this year and am looking to see how they can take another step. Perhaps you are right that its a matter of time and maturation. Right now we have an MVP caliber offensive player. I do think to some extent there is a window that will close. I don't see votto hanging around after his contract expires (especially if the Reds don't put a title contending team around him), so that gives us 3 years correct?

brm7675
04-06-2011, 12:48 PM
Why don't you see either Leake or Wood as No. 1's?

mattfeet
04-06-2011, 01:38 PM
Point well taken. I just see how the reds performed against the top teams last year and how they stack up against the top competition this year and am looking to see how they can take another step. Perhaps you are right that its a matter of time and maturation. Right now we have an MVP caliber offensive player. I do think to some extent there is a window that will close. I don't see votto hanging around after his contract expires (especially if the Reds don't put a title contending team around him), so that gives us 3 years correct?
While I see your point in re: Reds' play against >.500 teams in 2010, we also lost A LOT of those that we should have/could have won.

Example:
- 5 or 7 run 9th inning to Atlanta to lose on Walk-off slam
- All 4 Phillies games before ASB. Every single one of these was winnable.
- Game 2 of NLDS. We have that game won. Defense, of all things, lost that game for us.

SidneySlicker
04-06-2011, 01:45 PM
Why don't you see either Leake or Wood as No. 1's?

Not sure if this is directed at me, but I'll respond. I said above that feel Wood does have the potential to be a solid #1, but I haven't seen enough to say he could be a top pitcher in the league YET. As for Leake due to his lack of velocity he has to live on the edge of the strike zone which leaves alot of his game to the discretion of the umpire and his strike zone. He doesn't have the stuff to live in the strike zone. He's never gonna be a swing and miss pitcher.

brm7675
04-06-2011, 02:55 PM
Not sure if this is directed at me, but I'll respond. I said above that feel Wood does have the potential to be a solid #1, but I haven't seen enough to say he could be a top pitcher in the league YET. As for Leake due to his lack of velocity he has to live on the edge of the strike zone which leaves alot of his game to the discretion of the umpire and his strike zone. He doesn't have the stuff to live in the strike zone. He's never gonna be a swing and miss pitcher.

What was Greg M's average fastball? I don't think Cliff Lee is mowing down hitters with speed. Give me a pitcher who can 'paint" the corners and such over someone who throws in the upper 90's anyday...:thumbup:

Girevik
04-06-2011, 04:19 PM
As for Leake due to his lack of velocity he has to live on the edge of the strike zone which leaves alot of his game to the discretion of the umpire and his strike zone.

That can cut both ways. Once you've developed a reputation as a "control" pitcher, you can start inching further and further away from the plate and still get the calls.

Captain13
04-06-2011, 04:53 PM
That can cut both ways. Once you've developed a reputation as a "control" pitcher, you can start inching further and further away from the plate and still get the calls.

I agree, Tom Glavine made a career stricking out hitters with pitches outside the zone.