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bleedsred
04-07-2011, 01:16 AM
It is hilarious to read some of the knee jerk reaction post here at RZ esp. those on the old red guard. Sorry I don't live and die sitting on a message board to write up posts filled with stats to prove my point, but EV is coming off of TJ surgery....around the break, he will be his dominant self. Those of you who can't see it are blind. He can dial it up and throw it by hitters with good movement, once he gets his control he will be an all-star pitcher.

get over Hamilton....he is gone.

Zimmers
04-07-2011, 01:22 AM
It is hilarious to read some of the knee jerk reaction post here at RZ esp. those on the old red guard. Sorry I don't live and die sitting on a message board to write up posts filled with stats to prove my point, but EV is coming off of TJ surgery....around the break, he will be his dominant self. Those of you who can't see it are blind. He can dial it up and throw it by hitters with good movement, once he gets his control he will be an all-star pitcher.

get over Hamilton....he is gone.

The trade is always going to be talked about no matter what. I think ev could win 5 cu youngs and still be the whipping boy. Offense is sexier that pitching and Hamilton putting the numbers he puts up just adds fuel to the raging debate. I agree tho once he gets his control issues worked out he will be filthy and dominant.

Roush's socks
04-07-2011, 01:32 AM
In both starts Volquez got it together and pitched well after a rough start. That is different than getting hit hard inning after inning. Volquez is making batters miss wildly on a regular basis. Even if he always has some control issues he can still be effective. In 2008 he was #2 in the Cy Young even though he had a lot of walks. He is the kind of guy who could be dominant even against a good hitting team ain a playoff situation. He has nasty stuff that is just electric. That type of stuff just doesn't come along often.

Drugs Delaney
04-07-2011, 01:50 AM
I'm hoping for the best from Volquez, but I worry that he's really only had that one half season of above average results. Aside from that half season, he hasn't been all that great.

He has great stuff and misses bats better than any guy we have. However, he has 204 walks in 394 innings for his career. I don't know if he ever is going to "find his control." He might just continue to be a 5 walk per 9 inning pitcher like he has been his whole career.

The other problem with Edinson is that even if his control is good enough that he's not walking a lot of guys, he still throws a lot of pitches to get outs. He just seems like a guy who isn't going to get past the 6th inning very often.

Somebody needs to step up and be our ace, but to me, Travis Wood is much more likely to be the guy than Volquez.

jhiller21
04-07-2011, 02:22 AM
Even if it doesn't work out, there's no getting Hamilton back, so it's a moot point.

Volquez will either pitch to our expectations in the long run, or he wont. We need to quit crying over spilt milk and live with what we got.

We needed a good starter BADLY at the time, and we got one. He hurt himself, it happens. I think he can put together a decent season (somewhere in the 3.50-4.50 range) if he stays healthy. The innings are gonna pile up but we've got the guys to cover them if need be.

TheBigLebowski
04-07-2011, 08:21 AM
I did not LOVE the trade when it was made...can safely say I was against it, but I had no idea at the time just how lopsided it would be.

I will fully admit I knew little about Edinson at the time, but I did a lot of research him after it happened....I was intrigued by him.....but one constant I found was that everyone noted his lack of control and command in addition to his live arm.

I know he is coming off the TJ but he is experiencing the same problems he has his whole career - poor command and control. He can get that fastball up there...velocity-wise, but he also has this annoying tendency to keep the pitch up in the zone. He got away with some really, really bad pitches last night. If his velocity was down, I might agree with this premise, but the speed of his pitches is consistently good.

Then there's the issue of control, of which he has little. If these issues were not present before the surgery, then a cogent argument could be made that he simply needs time to recover. But these are the same tendencies he had before it.

EV has a very labored, complicated delivery. Next time he pitches, keep a good amount of beer on hand, and watch how many places the baseball goes before he releases it. One key to good control is a delivery that is easily replicated. Just like shooting free throws in basketball. We have another pitcher in our system whose career path is beginning to look eerily similar to EV's. His name starts with Dontrelle and ends with Willis. Gangbusters one year then completely fell off the table with control/command issues. Look closely at the way Dontrelle delivers the ball. He's all over the place, as is EV.

Moosie52
04-07-2011, 08:29 AM
What use do the Reds have for Josh Hamilton? The offense is already killer. It's much better to have a starting pitcher who throws wicked stuff and will only get better as the weather warms up.

redssince75
04-07-2011, 02:03 PM
It is hilarious to read some of the knee jerk reaction post here at RZ esp. those on the old red guard. Sorry I don't live and die sitting on a message board to write up posts filled with stats to prove my point, but EV is coming off of TJ surgery....around the break, he will be his dominant self. Those of you who can't see it are blind. He can dial it up and throw it by hitters with good movement, once he gets his control he will be an all-star pitcher.



Why are you picking on RZ......I listened to the game last night, and during the first inning Marty and the Cowboy *****ed and moaned and griped about EV and his problems and his control and his release point and using too many pitches.

So seems to me if you see *****ing on RZ, it just reflects the official announcers' position.

Girevik
04-07-2011, 02:46 PM
It's one thing to cirtique a poor performance, which is obviously what EV was having at the start. It's another thing to activly root for a guy to fail becuse he was traded for someone else you like. That's what it seems like a lot of folks here are doing.

Grouse
04-07-2011, 03:00 PM
I don't think anyone on any Texas forum is complaining about the trade. They made out like fat rats. I like the one year deal tho , If he turns it around and leaves so be it we have good depth. It it stays the same, or he gets caught cheating again were not tied up with him.

Vottomatic
04-07-2011, 05:19 PM
EV needs to learn, like Cueto did, that you don't have to strike everyone out. He runs up quick large pitch counts.

kfm
04-07-2011, 09:16 PM
Not crazy about his lack of control but he has been dominant for long periods of time. Certainly he has had the most dominant season of any current Reds pitcher despite having a less than dominant second half of the season, which is actually somewhat common for a lot of players. He does have a lot of movement to his motion which is hard to repeat which causes a lot of his problems. Having said that, I don't think Travis Wood is Cy Young after one great start and I am not ready to throw EV overboard because of two bad innings. I think he will consistently be a pitcher who battles his control, but any talk of bailing on him after two starts is beyond silly.

DaytonFlyer
04-08-2011, 01:19 PM
What use do the Reds have for Josh Hamilton? The offense is already killer. It's much better to have a starting pitcher who throws wicked stuff and will only get better as the weather warms up.

What use would any team have for the reigning AL MVP? Is that a serious question, or are you just being facetious to try and dismiss all other viewpoints?

Grouse
04-08-2011, 02:55 PM
Just picture him in left field, and batting between Votto and Rolen. OMG. Thats a big boy line-up. We would also have probaly the two best outfield arms in MLB He and Bruce. The term 5 tool player gets thrown around alot, but Josh Hamilton is the best 5 tool player in Baseball. IMO the best player in baseball.

texasdave
04-08-2011, 03:07 PM
I imagine if the Reds had kept Josh Hamilton and today decided they didn't need him anymore, that he would fetch a lot more than Edinson Volquez in a trade. But hindsight is 20/20. So the Reds have EV and let's hope he turns into an outstanding starting pitcher.

texasdave
04-08-2011, 03:08 PM
Just picture him in left field, and batting between Votto and Rolen. OMG.

Ain't gonna happen. Got to split those lefties. Everybody knows that. Bakermetrics 101.

Kingspoint
04-10-2011, 02:43 PM
It is hilarious to read some of the knee jerk reaction post here at RZ esp. those on the old red guard. Sorry I don't live and die sitting on a message board to write up posts filled with stats to prove my point, but EV is coming off of TJ surgery....around the break, he will be his dominant self. Those of you who can't see it are blind. He can dial it up and throw it by hitters with good movement, once he gets his control he will be an all-star pitcher.

get over Hamilton....he is gone.

So true. That's why I don't understand why Dusty had him begin the season. He's not going to back until mid-season, at the earliest, at least not back to being dubbed the #1 or #2, or even #3 pitcher on the team. #4 Starter would have been more like it, and if he gets a turn skipped because of off days, then good. Ride that horse the second half of the season, but don't burn him out the first half.