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Mario-Rijo
04-14-2011, 04:00 PM
I wanted to start a thread for Draft related predictions along with my predictions for the 1st round and Bengals picks. It will take awhile to put all of this in so I am just gonna put teams and names, if anyone has a question as to why any specific picks just ask. But usually I go BPA at a position of most dire need, of course in this I think value will play just as big a role. Remember this is a prediction not necessarily what I'd personally like to see.


#1 - Carolina - Cam Newton QB Auburn

#2 - Denver - Marcell Dareus DT Alabama

#3 - Buffalo - Von Miller OLB Texas A&M

#4 - Bengals - Nick Fairley DT Auburn

#5 - Arizona - Patrick Peterson CB LSU

#6 - Cleveland - A.J. Green WR UGA

#7 - 49ers - Prince Amukamara CB Nebraska

#8 - Titans - Blaine Gabbert QB Missouri

#9 - Dallas - Tyron Smith OT USC

#10 - Washington - Julio Jones WR 'Bama

#11 - Texans - Robert Quinn OLB UNC

#12 - Vikings - Anthony Costanzo OT B.C.

#13 - Detroit - Da'Quan Bowers DE Clemson

#14 - Rams - J.J. Watt DL Wisconsin

#15 - Chargers (From Dolphins for a 3rd Rd.) - Cameron Jordan DE Cal

#16 - Jacksonville - Ryan Kerrigan OLB Purdue

#17 - Patriots - Aldon Smith OLB Missouri

#18 - Dolphins - Mike Pouncey OG/C Florida

#19 - Giants - Akeem Ayers OLB UCLA

#20 - Tampa Bay - Justin Houston DE UGA

#21 - K.C. - Phil Taylor NT Baylor

#22 - Indy - Muhammed Wilkerson DT Temple

#23 - Philly - Jimmy Smith CB Colorado

#24 - Saints - Nate Solder OT Colorado

#25 - Seattle - Mark Ingram RB 'Bama

#26 - Ravens - Gabe Carimi OT Wisconsin

#27 - Atlanta - Kyle Rudolph TE Notre Dame

#28 - NE - Derek Sherrod OT Mississippi St.

#29 - Bears - Corey Luiget DT Illinois

#30 - NYJ - Rahim Moore FS UCLA

#31 - Pittsburgh - Brandon Harris CB Miami

#32 - G.B. - Cam Heyward DE OSU

2nd Round:
#33 - NE - Adrian Clayborn DE Iowa

#34 - Bills - Jake Locker QB Washington

#35 - Bengals - Christian Ponder QB FSU

3rd Round: #66 Orlando Franklin OL Miami Fl.

WVRed
04-15-2011, 02:22 PM
My turn:

1. Carolina- Cam Newton (QB-Auburn)
2. Denver- Marcell Dareus (DT-Alabama)
3. Buffalo- Blaine Gabbert (QB-Missouri)
4. Cincinnati- AJ Green (WR-Georgia)
5. Arizona- Von Miller (LB-Tex AM)
6. Cleveland- Nick Fairley (DT-Auburn)
7. San Fran- Patrick Peterson (CB-LSU)
8. Tennessee- Robert Quinn (DE-UNC)
9. Dallas- Prince Amukamara (CB-Nebraska)
10. Washington-Julio Jones (WR-Alabama)
11. Houston- JJ Watt (DE-Wisconsin)
12. Minnesota- Jake Locker (QB-Washington)
13. Detroit- Tyron Smith (OT-USC)
14. St Louis- Aldon Smith (DE-Missouri)
15. Miami- Mark Ingram (RB-Alabama)
16. Jacksonville- Ryan Kerrigan (DE-Purdue)
17. New England- Mike Pouncey (G-Florida)
18. San Diego- Cameron Jordan (DE-Cal)
19. NY Giants- Anthony Castonzo (OT-Boston College)
20. Tampa Bay- Adrian Clayborn (DE-Iowa)
21. Kansas City- Phil Taylor (DT-Baylor)
22. Indianapolis- Gabe Carimi (OT-Wisconsin)
23. Philadelphia- Derek Sherrod (OT-Miss St)
24. New Orleans- Corey Liuget (DT-Illinois)
25. Seattle- DaQuan Bowers (DE-Clemson)
26. Baltimore- Jimmy Smith (CB-Colorado)
27. Atlanta- Torrey Smith (WR-Maryland)
28. New England- Muhammad Wilkerson (DE-Temple)
29. Chicago- Nate Solder (OT-Colorado)
30. NY Jets- Randall Cobb (WR-Kentucky)
31. Pittsburgh- Ben Ijalana (OT-Villanova)
32. Green Bay- Cameron Heyward (DE-Ohio State)

Bengals Draft:
1. AJ Green
2. Christian Ponder
3. Daniel Thomas (RB-Kansas St)
4. Brandon Hogan (CB-WVU)
5. Ahmad Black (SS-Florida)
6. Stanley Havili (FB-USC)
7. Alex Henerey (K/P-Nebraska)

bleedsred
04-16-2011, 07:00 PM
I have to agree with WVRed...if Green is there at 4 which he probably will be, I see Cincy grabbing him. I see Pouncy as a late first round steal and I just don't see Newton going #1...he has a lot of question marks and there will be quality QBs available in the second.

Mario-Rijo
04-16-2011, 07:40 PM
I have to agree with WVRed...if Green is there at 4 which he probably will be, I see Cincy grabbing him. I see Pouncy as a late first round steal and I just don't see Newton going #1...he has a lot of question marks and there will be quality QBs available in the second.

Probably right. My gut screams they will do something like this but when I sat and pondered the remarks of Marvin and the organization in general the signs pointed to DL. It's the only position they haven't talked up or went into much detail about. They have talked up Cam Newton when asked, they have commented on the WR's, there has been indications they have shown interest in the DB's and Von Miller also. But the DL they just seemed to dismiss. Now to be fair I may be giving them too much credit because they aren't usually the type to do a lot of misdirection but I found it interesting nonetheless and Fairley is right up their alley in alot of ways.

I hope I'm wrong because Fairley seems to be that flash in the pan type of player who will be as much trouble or more than not. Truth is I'm not a big fan of taking WR in that spot just because of the unpredictability of the position, the fact that we have Chad, Jerome, Caldwell, Shipley already and also that Green is a more polished version of Simpson IMO. Neither is a rip the top off the defense type of down field threat, sure they both can get down field but neither is a Chris Henry type. I think 2 starting WR's ought to compliment each other in that way. I also think we have CB's and don't see the sense in drafting something we already have (I believe we will re-sign J-Jo).

I'd rather fill a position of need with Von Miller or get a bigtime upgrade in Dareus but I doubt they are available and I think Gabbert is probably gonna be an iffy pick but if they are gonna take a QB might as well take the best one you can and get one while you can rather than loading up on guys that aren't gonna have an easy time getting on the field with all this competition. Sure I am purposely thinking this year rather than looking towards '12 but I believe your 1st round pick needs to play their 1st year unless it is a QB. This is of course all dependant on Cam Newton being gone, because he is the last I guy I want to see in stripes.

If I had things my way I'd sit at #4 and see if Dareus or Miller drops and if not trade out of the spot if I could. And If I couldn't I'd take Gabbert, if he is also gone then it gets really tricky but I'd be ok with Green, Peterson or Amukamara in that scenario.

Mario-Rijo
04-16-2011, 07:56 PM
I have to agree with WVRed...if Green is there at 4 which he probably will be, I see Cincy grabbing him. I see Pouncy as a late first round steal and I just don't see Newton going #1...he has a lot of question marks and there will be quality QBs available in the second.

As far as the rest of the 1st round it's tough to tell. I think Pouncey can go anywhere from #14 to 25ish and probably will likely go a bit later (as guards do) than I suspect but it's tough to predict who a team would go with if there isn't somewhere there who fits a relative need. Sure Miami could go Ingram like everyone is predicting but part of the reason for their struggles in running the ball is their interior O-Line is crap and Pouncey is IMO a better more long term prospect than any RB in the 1st these days. RB's can be had virtually anywhere even as undrafted FA's.

I hope Newton goes #1 and if nothing more than ceiling gets him drafted there it wouldn't be surprising to me, in fact yeah I suspect it. Alot of teams have the mindset that if they are stuck picking 1st might as well go QB and ceiling. No question about it in my mind Newton has the ceiling he just isn't very likely to reach it, but if he does you have a big strong playmaker at the most important position on the field.

Revering4Blue
04-16-2011, 08:44 PM
IMHO, the Panthers, a team with many holes to fill, are raving about Newton in an attempt to entice some other team to offer a nice package to move up to nab Newton for themselves.

Newton may well go #1 to the Panthers, but as things stand today, I'll believe it when/if it happens.

Mario-Rijo
04-16-2011, 09:56 PM
IMHO, the Panthers, a team with many holes to fill, are raving about Newton in an attempt to entice some other team to offer a nice package to move up to nab Newton for themselves.

Newton may well go #1 to the Panthers, but as things stand today, I'll believe it when/if it happens.

While true I don't think anyone moves up to their spot leaving them stuck with him. They could go another route and IMO would be very wise to do so but it's tough pressure in that spot. I think if Bowers had stayed healthy he really could have changed the entire draft because a pass rushing DE is both worth a #1 pick and would also muster some excitement among their fan base. Being they are a team in such close proximity to SEC country Newton may be a popular pick amongst the masses which is who they need to appeal to.

And FYI I think Buffalo is doing the same thing as I don't believe they like either QB and hope that the Bengals or Cardinals jump ahead of them so Dareus will drop to them.

LoganBuck
04-18-2011, 03:45 PM
Peter King has a new article online today. He is always very tuned in with what the Bengals are up to. Typically only Dave Lapham is more in the know. Peter King makes a point to show how enamored the Bengals are with Andy Dalton, especially Jay and Jon Gruden. I am not a fan of Dalton, but this is a big leak. Peter King is tied in on what the Bengals are thinking. So that means the Bengals are probably looking at Wide Receiver, Corner, or Defensive Line at #4. I lost the link, but I got it from Lance McCallister's blog.

Can we just change this thread to "2011 NFL Draft Discussion Thread"

bucksfan2
04-18-2011, 04:39 PM
Peter King has a new article online today. He is always very tuned in with what the Bengals are up to. Typically only Dave Lapham is more in the know. Peter King makes a point to show how enamored the Bengals are with Andy Dalton, especially Jay and Jon Gruden. I am not a fan of Dalton, but this is a big leak. Peter King is tied in on what the Bengals are thinking. So that means the Bengals are probably looking at Wide Receiver, Corner, or Defensive Line at #4. I lost the link, but I got it from Lance McCallister's blog.

Can we just change this thread to "2011 NFL Draft Discussion Thread"

I don't know how tuned in with the Bengals King is. He is often very critical of the franchise but I don't think anyone is really tuned in with the Bengals. They operate very close to the vest.

I don't like the idea of going WR #4, actually I hate it. The number of WR's that can change the game by themselves is very very limited. While I think AJ Green is a great talent, I would rather go with defense or OLine. Since no OLine guys screams out I want D.

That said if Gabbert or Newton slip to #4 I don't see how the Bengals don't take one of them. I also think sitting in the early 2nd round is a good spot for the Bengals to be. I would be fine in the 2nd with Locker, Mallet, or even Dalton.

LoganBuck
04-18-2011, 04:54 PM
I don't know how tuned in with the Bengals King is. He is often very critical of the franchise but I don't think anyone is really tuned in with the Bengals. They operate very close to the vest.

I don't like the idea of going WR #4, actually I hate it. The number of WR's that can change the game by themselves is very very limited. While I think AJ Green is a great talent, I would rather go with defense or OLine. Since no OLine guys screams out I want D.

That said if Gabbert or Newton slip to #4 I don't see how the Bengals don't take one of them. I also think sitting in the early 2nd round is a good spot for the Bengals to be. I would be fine in the 2nd with Locker, Mallet, or even Dalton.

Peter King is in the loop with the Bengals. He has been for years. He covered the team for six seasons, back in the eighties for the Enquirer. As far as the Bengals playing it close to the vest, I would say no, they typically have a predraft tv special, and they pretty much reveal their draftboard. Dave Lapham also knows what is going on and when he starts talking, he is revealing what is going on behind closed doors at PBS. Happens pretty much every year.

chicoruiz
04-18-2011, 05:07 PM
Nick Fairley: A Big Daddy Wilkinson for the new milennium...

Mario-Rijo
04-19-2011, 09:00 AM
Peter King has a new article online today. He is always very tuned in with what the Bengals are up to. Typically only Dave Lapham is more in the know. Peter King makes a point to show how enamored the Bengals are with Andy Dalton, especially Jay and Jon Gruden. I am not a fan of Dalton, but this is a big leak. Peter King is tied in on what the Bengals are thinking. So that means the Bengals are probably looking at Wide Receiver, Corner, or Defensive Line at #4. I lost the link, but I got it from Lance McCallister's blog.

Can we just change this thread to "2011 NFL Draft Discussion Thread"

And the Bengals have seemingly went out of their way to downplay DL IMO so my head says Fairley (which I'm not a fan of) but my gut says A.J. Green all the way.

LoganBuck
04-19-2011, 09:11 AM
And the Bengals have seemingly went out of their way to downplay DL IMO so my head says Fairley (which I'm not a fan of) but my gut says A.J. Green all the way.

Jerry Jones of the Drugstore List was on Sunday Morning Sportstalk on 700WLW. He is also plugged into what the Bengals do, but I put him third behind Lapham, and King. He was saying AJ Green. Thinks QB at two.

NFL Network reporting that Mallet, Locker, and potentially Dalton expected to go in first round.

The Bengals typically don't play games, they have let it be known that this is going to be a "offensive draft". Marvin Lewis on record raving about Cam Newton.

I predict AJ Green, and then a QB in round two.

chicoruiz
04-19-2011, 11:12 AM
The Bengals typically don't play games, they have let it be known that this is going to be a "offensive draft".

Most of the Bengals drafts are pretty offensive if you ask me...

Sorry- it needed to be said.

Mario-Rijo
04-28-2011, 11:02 AM
Are we not feeling the draft folks? Been a whole week since anyway has commented on any of it.

I'll get it started, do we think the Redskins are trying to gauge where the QB's are headed by acting as if they want to trade up to #2 for Blaine Gabbert? NFL.com and ESPN both have reported they have been trying to do so.

Hoosier Red
04-28-2011, 11:09 AM
And the Bengals have seemingly went out of their way to downplay DL IMO so my head says Fairley (which I'm not a fan of) but my gut says A.J. Green all the way.

Why not a fan of Fairley?
He was the guy I've wanted all along. Obviously the risk/reward with a guy who "takes plays off" is significant, but it seems as though Zimmer has been able to get guys with those reputations to perform well.

There may be some selection bias in my memory, but especially front 7 guys who have dropped because of questionable motor like Dunlap, Atkins, Michael Johnson have all played well and had no issue with effort.

Of course the Bengals got those guys a round or two lower than they otherwise would because of the questions about motor. If they draft Fairley, they're not getting any discount on him so the pressure is higher.

Oxilon
04-28-2011, 11:11 AM
I don't remember being this disinterested in the draft in a long time.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-28-2011, 11:28 AM
I don't remember being this disinterested in the draft in a long time.

I was just thinking the same thing and I have no idea why. I usually really look forward to it.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-28-2011, 11:36 AM
Ok, with that said, I just spent 5 minutes looking over my Lindy's draft preview.

How's this for a quick infusion of offense?

Draft triplets with the first three picks.

1st Green - WR
2nd Ingram - RB (probably won't be available, if not maybe take LeShoure)
3rd Ponder - QB

I really like Ponder, as long as his elbow can hold up.

JaxRed
04-28-2011, 11:45 AM
No way Ponder is available in 3rd. I'm just as excited for this draft as I usually am.

Boss-Hog
04-28-2011, 11:51 AM
Ok, with that said, I just spent 5 minutes looking over my Lindy's draft preview.

How's this for a quick infusion of offense?

Draft triplets with the first three picks.

1st Green - WR
2nd Ingram - RB (probably won't be available, if not maybe take LeShoure)
3rd Ponder - QB

I really like Ponder, as long as his elbow can hold up.

No way Ponder lasts until the third round (even the top of the round where the Bengals pick) and recent reports say he may not even still be there in the second.

HotCorner
04-28-2011, 11:54 AM
I think the Bengals trade down in the first. Several teams want to move up to get either Peterson, Green or Miller. The Bengals are in a perfect spot should these players be there at 4.

Perfect trade partner would be New England. They own two 1st, two 2nd and two 3rd round picks.

I even heard a scenario this morning that would be intriguing ...

1) Newton, CAR
2) Miller, DEN
3) Gabbert, BUF

That would leave Dareus available at 4.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-28-2011, 12:05 PM
Well, what does that say for my Lindy's preview?

They have Ponder going in the 3rd, but I'm sure this thing is very outdated already.

I also like Ricky Stanzi and find him extremely underrated. Maybe not a great fit for the Bengals, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him make it somewhere and be a very solid starting QB in the future.

I couldn't believe he wasn't named on any of the All Big 10 teams. 6-7 QB's were listed and not Stanzi. His numbers were very good last year, even though Iowa struggled with injuries and had a tough year overall.

bucksfan2
04-28-2011, 12:13 PM
My general thinking for the draft is you don't draft the guys who are big time risers and you want to scoop in and draft the ones that are fallers. Guys who rise do so based upon nothing they have done on the field. And they guys who fall do so based upon the off field stuff. Now its a drug, character, or arrest issue then I understand that. But if hies 40 isn't great or his broad jump isn't that high, or his wonderlick isn't great who cares.

As for Stanzi if given the right situation I think he can be a solid QB. He may never be a top 5 type QB but I think he could be a very reliable game manager.

Mario-Rijo
04-28-2011, 12:31 PM
Why not a fan of Fairley?
He was the guy I've wanted all along. Obviously the risk/reward with a guy who "takes plays off" is significant, but it seems as though Zimmer has been able to get guys with those reputations to perform well.

There may be some selection bias in my memory, but especially front 7 guys who have dropped because of questionable motor like Dunlap, Atkins, Michael Johnson have all played well and had no issue with effort.

Of course the Bengals got those guys a round or two lower than they otherwise would because of the questions about motor. If they draft Fairley, they're not getting any discount on him so the pressure is higher.

That's basically my reasoning, too risky for my taste, at #4 anyway. In fact I am a bit unsure if I'd take the risk in the 1st at all on him. One other thing that I am not enamored with is guys who are largely pass rushers at that position who don't play with the same intensity against the run, sure they like getting behind th eline no matter who has the ball but when it comes to taking on blockers so their LB's can make the play they tend to be lackluster, a good tell tale sign about their true intentions.

Mario-Rijo
04-28-2011, 12:34 PM
I think the Bengals trade down in the first. Several teams want to move up to get either Peterson, Green or Miller. The Bengals are in a perfect spot should these players be there at 4.

Perfect trade partner would be New England. They own two 1st, two 2nd and two 3rd round picks.

I even heard a scenario this morning that would be intriguing ...

1) Newton, CAR
2) Miller, DEN
3) Gabbert, BUF

That would leave Dareus available at 4.

Michael Lombardi (NFL Network) is reporting that the Bengals are actively trying to trade down from #4 (even willing to take less to do so) to get ammo to trade back up in the 1st from the 2nd to acquire Andy Dalton.

Apparently several teams have suggested the Bengals are trying to move. I hope the Pats would be interested for picks #17 and 28, that would be perfect for us to acquire something like Pouncey and Dalton, come back in the 2nd and get the best RB ava. But I'd be just as happy taking Dareus and then best QB available in the 2nd.

bucksfan2
04-28-2011, 12:40 PM
Michael Lombardi (NFL Network) is reporting that the Bengals are actively trying to trade down from #4 (even willing to take less to do so) to get ammo to trade back up in the 1st from the 2nd to acquire Andy Dalton.

Apparently several teams have suggested the Bengals are trying to move. I hope the Pats would be interested for picks #17 and 28, that would be perfect for us to acquire something like Pouncey and Dalton, come back in the 2nd and get the best RB ava.

I am starting to wonder if the whole Dalton thing is a smoke screen. Maybe they like someone better and want to get everyone off of him.

On a related note I find it interesting the number of QBs that could go in round one. Newton, Gabbert, Locker, Dalton, Kaepernick, and Ponderer. How many of those guys would be legit first rounders in normal years?

Boss-Hog
04-28-2011, 12:41 PM
I am starting to wonder if the whole Dalton thing is a smoke screen. Maybe they like someone better and want to get everyone off of him.

On a related note I find it interesting the number of QBs that could go in round one. Newton, Gabbert, Locker, Dalton, Kaepernick, and Ponderer. How many of those guys would be legit first rounders in normal years?
I wouldn't be shocked at all to see Mallet go in the first, either.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-28-2011, 12:46 PM
As for Stanzi if given the right situation I think he can be a solid QB. He may never be a top 5 type QB but I think he could be a very reliable game manager.

Agree. Look at these numbers from last year:

221-345 (64%)
3004 yards
25 TD
6 INT
12th rated passer in the country

How does that not qualify for All-Big 10, when 6 other QB's are listed on the team?

Persa = 1st/2nd
Robinson = HM/1st
Tolzien = 2nd/HM
Pryor = HM/HM
Cousins = HM/HM
Chappel = HM

Strange.

Mario-Rijo
04-28-2011, 12:48 PM
I wouldn't be shocked at all to see Mallet go in the first, either.

Likewise slip into the 2nd round, his lack of mobility seems to have people concerned. I am thinking Newton, Gabbert & Locker are locks for the 1st. Dalton seems to be closing in on being the 4th lock. But that also leaves the 1st 3 picks in the 2nd NE dealing down, Buffalo if they don't take one in the 1st and then us. I think Kaepernick is a good fit with Buffalo's (Washingtons also BTW) offense plus they can afford to sit him awhile. Ponder or Mallet seem to be the guys I think are there for the Bengals in the 2nd if they can't move.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-28-2011, 12:57 PM
Mallet seems like a combo of Ryan Leaf and Derek Anderson.

I'd stay away from him. Far away.

JaxRed
04-28-2011, 12:57 PM
The Jaguars situation..... I know no one talks about the Jags outside of Jax, so here's my glimpse of what our situation is.

It's all about the GM here. We suffered thru 6 seasons of a horrific GM in Shack Harris.

For the 2009 season we had a new GM faced with turning around a 5-11 franchise with as many arrests as the Bengals.

So first thing about GM Gene Smith: He believes in character guys. If Ryan Mallett was on the clock when we came up, Ryan Mallet would still be on the clock when the next team drafted.

Second, he believes in sure things for the big picks. If you have a guy with big upside but big questions... he'll go for the guy with less upside and more certainty. So if we were the #1 pick, Cam Newton would NOT be our choice.

He's only had 2 drafts, so you can't say what he is done is a "trend" but it's the only thing you have to go by.

In 2 drafts he has seemed to:

1. Concentrate on linemen from big programs in first 2 rounds
2. Hit one area hard each draft. (1st 2 picks were OL in 2009, drafted 5 DL in 2010)
3. Go for Lineman again in Round 3 but start picking from small schools.
4. From Round 3 and lower have a heavy emphasis on small schools
5. Lock in on certain guys, and be so determined to get them that he gives up extra picks to get them.


How has he done?

Well, he's taken us from 5-11, to 7-9 to 8-8. A nice turnaround, but some teams have done it more quickly. And one reason may be the "lock-in" fact.
When you're rebuilding you need lots of picks. In 2009 draft he gave up a 7th round pick and a 2010 2nd to pick a corner from William and Mary (Cox) that many considered to be a reach.

In 2010 despite saying he would like to trade down and get more picks, he turned down a trade that would have garnered more picks from SF, so he could pick Alualu, in another move that was considered a reach.

Now, Alualu was very good, and Cox has been ok, but extra picks might have been better.

All the players he has drafted are still on the roster. A few things factor into it, like how depleted the roster was, and he might favor his guys over Shacks guys. But it also means he's picked good players.

So our needs going into the draft at pick 16 (1st) and then 49 (2nd):

Defense. We were ranked 27th in points allowed and have big needs at DE, Linebacker and DBs.

Offense. We have an adequate but aging QB with none on horizon.

So you factor all that in it would appear that the Jags will not trade down, and will have their sights on a DL like Kerrigan, Watts or Jordan in Rnd 1.

At some point they will address the QB issue, and if Gene likes someone enough, will move up to get him. Possibilities: Ponder, Dalton, Caepernick, Stanzi, Locker) No Mallet.

Starting in Rnd 3, he''ll be more open to trading to get more picks and will pick lots of small school guys

Mario-Rijo
04-28-2011, 01:02 PM
Mallet seems like a combo of Ryan Leaf and Derek Anderson.

I'd stay away from him. Far away.

Let me guess, Leaf's immaturity and Anderson's on field play. If so I can see that as well, which is why you can't take this kid in the 1st, the pressure would be immense. But personally I think he is easily much better than Anderson for sure and not quite as immature as Leaf. If you can protect him with a good O-Line and running game and get thru to him that there is a time for taking chances and a time not to he'll be a solid pro QB. Sometimes guys blessed with such arms think they are capable of making any throw at any time.

Mario-Rijo
04-28-2011, 01:06 PM
The Jaguars situation..... I know no one talks about the Jags outside of Jax, so here's my glimpse of what our situation is.

It's all about the GM here. We suffered thru 6 seasons of a horrific GM in Shack Harris.

For the 2009 season we had a new GM faced with turning around a 5-11 franchise with as many arrests as the Bengals.

So first thing about GM Gene Smith: He believes in character guys. If Ryan Mallett was on the clock when we came up, Ryan Mallet would still be on the clock when the next team drafted.

Second, he believes in sure things for the big picks. If you have a guy with big upside but big questions... he'll go for the guy with less upside and more certainty. So if we were the #1 pick, Cam Newton would NOT be our choice.

He's only had 2 drafts, so you can't say what he is done is a "trend" but it's the only thing you have to go by.

In 2 drafts he has seemed to:

1. Concentrate on linemen from big programs in first 2 rounds
2. Hit one area hard each draft. (1st 2 picks were OL in 2009, drafted 5 DL in 2010)
3. Go for Lineman again in Round 3 but start picking from small schools.
4. From Round 3 and lower have a heavy emphasis on small schools
5. Lock in on certain guys, and be so determined to get them that he gives up extra picks to get them.


How has he done?

Well, he's taken us from 5-11, to 7-9 to 8-8. A nice turnaround, but some teams have done it more quickly. And one reason may be the "lock-in" fact.
When you're rebuilding you need lots of picks. In 2009 draft he gave up a 7th round pick and a 2010 2nd to pick a corner from William and Mary (Cox) that many considered to be a reach.

In 2010 despite saying he would like to trade down and get more picks, he turned down a trade that would have garnered more picks from SF, so he could pick Alualu, in another move that was considered a reach.

Now, Alualu was very good, and Cox has been ok, but extra picks might have been better.

All the players he has drafted are still on the roster. A few things factor into it, like how depleted the roster was, and he might favor his guys over Shacks guys. But it also means he's picked good players.

So our needs going into the draft at pick 16 (1st) and then 49 (2nd):

Defense. We were ranked 27th in points allowed and have big needs at DE, Linebacker and DBs.

Offense. We have an adequate but aging QB with none on horizon.

So you factor all that in it would appear that the Jags will not trade down, and will have their sights on a DL like Kerrigan, Watts or Jordan in Rnd 1.

At some point they will address the QB issue, and if Gene likes someone enough, will move up to get him. Possibilities: Ponder, Dalton, Caepernick, Stanzi, Locker) No Mallet.

Starting in Rnd 3, he''ll be more open to trading to get more picks and will pick lots of small school guys

SO having said all that what do you think about how the picks right in front of the Jags and the Jags pick itself went in my mock on the 1st page?

bucksfan2
04-28-2011, 01:13 PM
Mallet seems like a combo of Ryan Leaf and Derek Anderson.

I'd stay away from him. Far away.

Anyone who has a little attitude problem at QB often gets compared to Ryan Leaf. I think its funny how Mallet has come under such scrutiny for this draft but Cam Newton, and all his baggage, is likely to go #1. Newton is a guy who has had all of one year D1 experience running a spread offense. He is a guy with serious issues and a guy who people wonder if he can transition into a NFL caliber QB.

Mallet is a guy who has been in a pro-style system for 4 years. One was a freshman season when he didn't see the field a ton and one was a redshirt year. He is getting hammered for being an immobile QB, but the last I checked both Manning and Brady were immobile QB's. It isn't about being about being able to scramble for a 1b rather being able to sidestep a blitz. Not everyone needs to be a Big Ben or Aaron Rodgers incarnate in order to be a successful QB. I am tempted by Mallet because of his big arm and I think he has a big upside.

JaxRed
04-28-2011, 01:14 PM
Well the Jags pick is what most people think will happen. Kerrigan is a high character, high motor, smart player. I'm a little concerned that he didn't do well in Senior Bowl.

My guys would be Watts and Jordan
and Smith and Kerrigan slightly lower.

I don't think the Chargers would give up a 3rd for Jordan when so many people put those 4 guys at same level.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-28-2011, 01:14 PM
I'm not impressed with Mallet, but of course I thought Payton Manning would be awful in the NFL, so what do I know? :)

JaxRed
04-28-2011, 01:17 PM
I've heard and read things over the last couple days, that every time someone on a team interviews Dalton he climbs their list, and every time Mallett interviews (when he's not hung over), teams move him down their list.

Mario-Rijo
04-28-2011, 01:17 PM
Well the Jags pick is what most people think will happen. Kerrigan is a high character, high motor, smart player. I'm a little concerned that he didn't do well in Senior Bowl.

My guys would be Watts and Jordan
and Smith and Kerrigan slightly lower.

I don't think the Chargers would give up a 3rd for Jordan when so many people put those 4 guys at same level.

While they may all have similar value Smith is an OLB in their system Jordan a DE, as long as they are still running a 3-4. I'm thinking the Cargers would want to get ahead of NE here because NE has a much bigger need for a Watt or Jordan, a true 3-4 DE.

Mario-Rijo
04-28-2011, 01:22 PM
Anyone who has a little attitude problem at QB often gets compared to Ryan Leaf. I think its funny how Mallet has come under such scrutiny for this draft but Cam Newton, and all his baggage, is likely to go #1. Newton is a guy who has had all of one year D1 experience running a spread offense. He is a guy with serious issues and a guy who people wonder if he can transition into a NFL caliber QB.

Mallet is a guy who has been in a pro-style system for 4 years. One was a freshman season when he didn't see the field a ton and one was a redshirt year. He is getting hammered for being an immobile QB, but the last I checked both Manning and Brady were immobile QB's. It isn't about being about being able to scramble for a 1b rather being able to sidestep a blitz. Not everyone needs to be a Big Ben or Aaron Rodgers incarnate in order to be a successful QB. I am tempted by Mallet because of his big arm and I think he has a big upside.

Manning ran a 4.9 40, Mallet a 5.3, a pretty large difference. But I do agree all Mallet needs to do is be mobile inside the pocket but his feet are nowhere near as quick and agile as Manning or Brady (though this is a much closer comparison). One other thing to consider here though is Brady is in a W/C style offense which is what the Bengals will be running, which doesn't allow for as much time for the defense to get to a QB.

I'm on the fence about Mallet but I would jump on him in a heartbeat in the 2nd under the right circumstances.

Mario-Rijo
04-28-2011, 01:22 PM
I've heard and read things over the last couple days, that every time someone on a team interviews Dalton he climbs their list, and every time Mallett interviews (when he's not hung over), teams move him down their list.

Now that would concern me.

Caveat Emperor
04-28-2011, 01:46 PM
The Bengals should hope that Gabbert is available at #4 and someone covets him enough to swoop in and take the pick off their hands.

I chuckle every time I see their name attached to A.J. Green. How has picking a WR top-10 worked out for teams over the years?

Darrius Heyward-Bey (#7 - 2009 OAK) BUST
Calvin Johnson (#1 - 2007 DET) HIT
Ted Ginn Jr. (#9 - 2007 MIA) BUST
Braylon Edwards (#3 2005 CLE ) BUST
Troy Williamson (#7 2005 MIN) BUST
Mike Williams (#10 2005 DET) BUST
Larry Fitzgerald (#3 2004 ARI) HIT
Roy Williams (#7 2004 DET) BUST
Reggie Williams (#9 2004 JAX) BUST
Charles Rogers (#2 2003 DET) BUST
Andre Johnson (#3 2003 HOU) HIT
David Terrell (#8 2001 CHI) BUST
Koren Robinson (#9 2001 SEA) BUST

Great odds here.

RichRed
04-28-2011, 02:32 PM
The Bengals should hope that Gabbert is available at #4 and someone covets him enough to swoop in and take the pick off their hands.

I chuckle every time I see their name attached to A.J. Green. How has picking a WR top-10 worked out for teams over the years?

Darrius Heyward-Bey (#7 - 2009 OAK) BUST
Calvin Johnson (#1 - 2007 DET) HIT
Ted Ginn Jr. (#9 - 2007 MIA) BUST
Braylon Edwards (#3 2005 CLE ) BUST
Troy Williamson (#7 2005 MIN) BUST
Mike Williams (#10 2005 DET) BUST
Larry Fitzgerald (#3 2004 ARI) HIT
Roy Williams (#7 2004 DET) BUST
Reggie Williams (#9 2004 JAX) BUST
Charles Rogers (#2 2003 DET) BUST
Andre Johnson (#3 2003 HOU) HIT
David Terrell (#8 2001 CHI) BUST
Koren Robinson (#9 2001 SEA) BUST

Great odds here.

Just don't draft a WR named Williams(on) and your odds improve greatly.

LoganBuck
04-28-2011, 02:51 PM
With Mallet, I have images of the Ohio State game fresh in my mind. Both the good and the bad. He was under immense pressure all night and had his receivers held onto the ball he would have been seen differently. He made nice passes all night.

The other side though was against a very fast and athletic front seven, he couldn't get out of the way, or escape at even the slightest bit of pressure. He took massive hits all night long. I don't see him surviving as a starter in the NFL with that footspeed, and limited footwork. People can say Peyton Manning all they want, but Peyton Manning can move his feet around in the pocket. Mallet can not.

WVRed
04-28-2011, 03:15 PM
Ok, with that said, I just spent 5 minutes looking over my Lindy's draft preview.

How's this for a quick infusion of offense?

Draft triplets with the first three picks.

1st Green - WR
2nd Ingram - RB (probably won't be available, if not maybe take LeShoure)
3rd Ponder - QB

I really like Ponder, as long as his elbow can hold up.

I'm all for Green and LeShore (don't think Ponder and Ingram will be available). No way no how do I want the Bengals to draft a QB this year. Too many issues with the ones available and next year's looks more promising. Stockpile weapons with Green and LeShore to add to Gresham and Shipley, then draft either Andrew Luck or Matt Barkley next year. I believe we will be in bad enough shape to pick one of those two next year.

LoganBuck
04-28-2011, 05:44 PM
I'm all for Green and LeShore (don't think Ponder and Ingram will be available). No way no how do I want the Bengals to draft a QB this year. Too many issues with the ones available and next year's looks more promising. Stockpile weapons with Green and LeShore to add to Gresham and Shipley, then draft either Andrew Luck or Matt Barkley next year. I believe we will be in bad enough shape to pick one of those two next year.

Yep, More smoke rising this afternoon that ALL the QBs of interest will be gone in the first round. If that is the case, a top offensive or defensive lineman will drop, maybe a corner. I don't like any of them that much. The Bengals are screwed either way for 2011, so might as well take best player available and go after a veteran free agent QB or live with El Sickness or Jordan Palmer this season, because they likely will stink bad enough to earn a chance at Luck or Barkley.

If they got AJ Green, and then someone like Marvin Austin at the top of round two I would be happy.

Benihana
04-28-2011, 05:58 PM
The Bengals should hope that Gabbert is available at #4 and someone covets him enough to swoop in and take the pick off their hands.

I chuckle every time I see their name attached to A.J. Green. How has picking a WR top-10 worked out for teams over the years?

Darrius Heyward-Bey (#7 - 2009 OAK) BUST
Calvin Johnson (#1 - 2007 DET) HIT
Ted Ginn Jr. (#9 - 2007 MIA) BUST
Braylon Edwards (#3 2005 CLE ) BUST
Troy Williamson (#7 2005 MIN) BUST
Mike Williams (#10 2005 DET) BUST
Larry Fitzgerald (#3 2004 ARI) HIT
Roy Williams (#7 2004 DET) BUST
Reggie Williams (#9 2004 JAX) BUST
Charles Rogers (#2 2003 DET) BUST
Andre Johnson (#3 2003 HOU) HIT
David Terrell (#8 2001 CHI) BUST
Koren Robinson (#9 2001 SEA) BUST

Great odds here.

Depends how you slice the data: How has picking a WR in the Top-5 worked out for teams in the last 10 years? 3 out of the 5 picks worked out great (A.Johnson, C.Johnson, and Fitzgerald) with the other two (B.Edwards and C.Rogers) showing talent but suffering due to injury and/or off-the-field issues.

If the Bengals stay put at 4, Green or Peterson (as a S, still must re-sign JJ) has to be the pick.

If the Bengals draft Gabbert, my daughter may grow up rooting for a different team.

If Dalton, Ponder and Locker are gone by the time the 2nd round pick comes along, I'd be OK with Kaeparnick, Mallet, Solder or Carimi.

KoryMac5
04-28-2011, 06:00 PM
Rumors have been flying that the Skins would try and move up to get Gabbert. Looks like those deals have been shot down as they lack the picks to get it done. I hear Washington will pull the trigger on the QB they like the most Ponder at #10. Shanahan is starting to scare me if this happens!

RichRed
04-28-2011, 06:11 PM
Rumors have been flying that the Skins would try and move up to get Gabbert. Looks like those deals have been shot down as they lack the picks to get it done. I hear Washington will pull the trigger on the QB they like the most Ponder at #10. Shanahan is starting to scare me if this happens!

Draft time is always a scary time for us Skins fans.

WVRed
04-28-2011, 07:53 PM
Yep, More smoke rising this afternoon that ALL the QBs of interest will be gone in the first round. If that is the case, a top offensive or defensive lineman will drop, maybe a corner. I don't like any of them that much. The Bengals are screwed either way for 2011, so might as well take best player available and go after a veteran free agent QB or live with El Sickness or Jordan Palmer this season, because they likely will stink bad enough to earn a chance at Luck or Barkley.

If they got AJ Green, and then someone like Marvin Austin at the top of round two I would be happy.

What scares me the most is I could see Mike Brown offering a first round pick next year to the Patriots to secure Andy Dalton.

I don't want any defensive players taken until the later rounds. Defense is an issue but I think Zimmer can manage. We need to get Jay Gruden pieces to work with in implementing a west coast offense.

paintmered
04-28-2011, 09:10 PM
And the Bengals avoid the first likely bust QB in Cam Newton.

CTA513
04-28-2011, 09:11 PM
Newton was the #1 pick so Bengals fans don't have to worry about them picking him.

Oxilon
04-28-2011, 09:19 PM
Not that I really care that much, but I would just laugh if the Bengals chose AJ Green (or Julio Jones for that matter). Nothing better than picking the most overrated position with the #4 overall pick right after your franchise QB wants to leave town.

paintmered
04-28-2011, 09:20 PM
Not that I really care that much, but I would just laugh if the Bengals chose AJ Green (or Julio Jones for that matter). Nothing better than picking the most overrated position with the #4 overall pick right after your franchise QB wants to leave town.

AJ Green is so going to be a Bengal. :laugh:

And Who Dey is on the clock... (*prepares to do his annual draft facepalm*)

paintmered
04-28-2011, 09:24 PM
And facepalm.

CTA513
04-28-2011, 09:24 PM
Bengals pick AJ Green

:laugh:

Oxilon
04-28-2011, 09:24 PM
Jordan Palmer just got a great target!

Reds Fanatic
04-28-2011, 09:25 PM
I may be the only one by I like the pick. They will get a QB in the next round.

UKFlounder
04-28-2011, 09:26 PM
The Bengals go with the easy, safe choice. Oh well.

Oxilon
04-28-2011, 09:28 PM
LOL Seriously, what difference does it make who's running the routes when your offensive line is garbage and your starting QB is Jordan Palmer? Oh, and aren't we running a WC offense now? Kinda of eliminates Green's deep play threat.

Cedric
04-28-2011, 09:28 PM
I think it's the right choice.

Cedric
04-28-2011, 09:29 PM
LOL Seriously, what difference does it make who's running the routes when your offensive line is garbage and your starting QB is Jordan Palmer? Oh, and aren't we running a WC offense now? Kinda of eliminates Green's deep play threat.

Aj Green is a great route runner, great after the catch, and someone who will catch the ball over the middle. Since when did he become Randy Moss?

Oxilon
04-28-2011, 09:32 PM
Aj Green is a great route runner, great after the catch, and someone who will catch the ball over the middle. Since when did he become Randy Moss?

So are you saying AJ Green isn't a deep play threat?

paintmered
04-28-2011, 09:33 PM
Cleveland and Atlanta make the first trade of the draft.

WVRed
04-28-2011, 09:33 PM
Love this pick. Now just need a QB to throw to him. It's no secret the TOcho show is over, time to get some fresh blood in.

If we can get Mikel LeShore in the second I'll be ecstatic.

paintmered
04-28-2011, 09:34 PM
Interesting. Atlanta tried to move to four to get AJ Green. The Bengals didn't pull the trigger on the deal.

Reds Fanatic
04-28-2011, 09:34 PM
Apparently Atlanta had tried to trade up to get Green. So now they are trading to get Julio Jones.

Cedric
04-28-2011, 09:35 PM
LOL Seriously, what difference does it make who's running the routes when your offensive line is garbage and your starting QB is Jordan Palmer? Oh, and aren't we running a WC offense now? Kinda of eliminates Green's deep play threat.


Interesting. Atlanta tried to move to four to get AJ Green. The Bengals didn't pull the trigger on the deal.

Mike Brown got offered Roddy White, Matt Ryan, and the whole Falcons draft and wouldn't pull the trigger :)

paintmered
04-28-2011, 09:37 PM
I love the crowd reactions at the draft every year. :laugh:

Wow, Atlanta paid through the teeth for Julio.

LoganBuck
04-28-2011, 09:38 PM
Coming late to the party, but I heard Dave Lapham on 93.1 FM out of Lima at 5:30pm today. A couple of points of interest

1. Projected the AJ Green pick
2. Bengals like a few QBs projected in second round.
3. Identified Safety and Outside Linebacker as positions being targeted.

paintmered
04-28-2011, 09:42 PM
At least the Bengals didn't go with Gabbert. Whenever I read his name, I can't help but pronounce it like Timmy on South Park pronounces "Gobbles" the turkey.

Gobbles!!

YouTube - South Park- Turkey Gobbles - ThanksGiving (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzIxx03ldOA)

WVRed
04-28-2011, 09:44 PM
I love the crowd reactions at the draft every year. :laugh:

Wow, Atlanta paid through the teeth for Julio.

http://images.sodahead.com/profiles/0/0/1/6/7/2/4/7/1/jesus-facepalm-15946113922.jpeg

http://gadgetsteria.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/facepalm.jpg

http://images.mylot.com/userImages/images/postphotos/2283585.gif

paintmered
04-28-2011, 09:45 PM
Apparently the 9ers disliked Gabbert so much they'd rather have Alex Smith. Ouch.

Jake Locker goes to Tennessee. Woah!

Reds Fanatic
04-28-2011, 09:45 PM
Wow Jake Locker goes number 8.

paintmered
04-28-2011, 09:47 PM
"I'm a Locker stocker!!"

Umm....

Cedric
04-28-2011, 09:51 PM
I think Jake Locker is the best Qb in the draft by a wide margin. I like that pick a lot.

WVRed
04-28-2011, 10:02 PM
The Jaguars have traded up for Blaine Gabbert

Reds Fanatic
04-28-2011, 10:19 PM
Christian Ponder goes to Minnesota. Already 4 QBs taken in the first 12 picks

WVRed
04-28-2011, 10:20 PM
The more I think about it, I kinda wonder if trading down would have made much sense.

We needed a top wideout, we got it.

By trading down, we would have went all the way to 27. That late, Randall Cobb is probably the player I would have targeted, and he would have been gone.

Any first rounder next year from Atlanta is likely going to be in the late 20's again. They are going to be a playoff team. This isn't like the Patriots trading Seymour to the Raiders (although that wasn't that bad).

An extra second rounder would have been nice to maybe take some offensive line help.

I guess this could be the "What might have been"

WVRed
04-28-2011, 10:21 PM
Christian Ponder goes to Minnesota. Already 4 QBs taken in the first 12 picks

Didn't see that one. Andy Dalton will be gone first round as well. At least there will be no one for the Bengals to take in the second.

WVRed
04-28-2011, 10:22 PM
Nick Fairley to Detroit.

The Lions might have got a steal. Fairley teamed up with Ndamkong Suh is going to be fierce.

Redhook
04-28-2011, 10:34 PM
Didn't see that one. Andy Dalton will be gone first round as well. At least there will be no one for the Bengals to take in the second.

Unless they take Mallett. It's actually a good thing if the Bengals don't take a QB with their next pick. Long-term, these guys aren't the answer.

CTA513
04-28-2011, 10:36 PM
Steelers won't be able to get Mike Pouncey as the Dolphins just picked him.

KoryMac5
04-28-2011, 10:36 PM
Reedy reports Bengals didn't pull the trigger because they would have dropped to far in the first round. I agree love the AJ Green pick for the Bengals. Julio Jones has a case of the drops.

Shocked Locker went to the Titans, didn't see that one anywhere. Double shocked yo gabba, gabba went to Jacksonville.

Fairley is a steal for the Lions, teamed with Suh and Detroit just got scary!

WVRed
04-28-2011, 10:41 PM
Reedy reports Bengals didn't pull the trigger because they would have dropped to far in the first round. I agree love the AJ Green pick for the Bengals. Julio Jones has a case of the drops.

Shocked Locker went to the Titans, didn't see that one anywhere. Double shocked yo gabba, gabba went to Jacksonville.

Fairley is a steal for the Lions, teamed with Suh and Detroit just got scary!

Not at all shocked with Locker going to Tennessee. He is a Kerry Collins clone and when they said he showed up with his hunting dog to tell Sarkisian he was coming back, that pretty much sealed it. Locker will be a hit in Nashville.

KoryMac5
04-28-2011, 11:16 PM
Not at all shocked with Locker going to Tennessee. He is a Kerry Collins clone and when they said he showed up with his hunting dog to tell Sarkisian he was coming back, that pretty much sealed it. Locker will be a hit in Nashville.

Locker may be a great guy with a great dog but he will need to improve his accuracy and his willingness to take punishment.

KoryMac5
04-28-2011, 11:18 PM
Browns jump back up to 21 to get Bowers maybe? Nope looks to be Taylor, odd thought Taylor would be there at 27 for them.

Mario-Rijo
04-28-2011, 11:22 PM
I think Jake Locker is the best Qb in the draft by a wide margin. I like that pick a lot.

Same here.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-28-2011, 11:42 PM
I'm frustrated a majority of the time with the Bengals 1st round picks, but I like this one.

JaxRed
04-28-2011, 11:50 PM
Well. the Jags went bold. That looming QB shortage finally burst onto the scene. And Gene Smith has to be congratulated on the deal he made. All he gave up was a second round pick to grab the top-rated QB by most draft rankings.

LoganBuck
04-28-2011, 11:51 PM
This is where the volatility comes. We are now at pick 26

KoryMac5
04-28-2011, 11:54 PM
Seattle with a reach, take Carpenter a Guard from Bama. Bowers still lurking the Ravens or Steelers will pick him to terrorize the Bengals for years.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-28-2011, 11:56 PM
Haven't been following the pre-draft stuff very heavily, but what happened to Bowers?

Wasn't he a top 5 pick a few months ago? I must have missed something big.

LoganBuck
04-28-2011, 11:57 PM
Bad knee, cartilage degeneration, medical reports don't predict a very long career. He was limited at the combine and his pro day. The knee is a big deal.

KoryMac5
04-28-2011, 11:57 PM
Knee injury some folks think he may need microfracture surgery at some point down the road.

LoganBuck
04-28-2011, 11:59 PM
Something weird going on here, appears the clock expired on Ravens

KoryMac5
04-29-2011, 12:00 AM
Ravens passed on the pick craziness!

LoganBuck
04-29-2011, 12:01 AM
KC jumped Baltimore

Playadlc
04-29-2011, 12:02 AM
What the heck is going on?

They passed?

BuckeyeRedleg
04-29-2011, 12:03 AM
Should the Bengals grab Bowers if he's available in the 2nd?

KoryMac5
04-29-2011, 12:03 AM
Still lots of good picks on the board, Bengals in good shape for round 2.

LoganBuck
04-29-2011, 12:03 AM
What the heck is going on?

They passed?

Trades going down??? Cincinnati?

KoryMac5
04-29-2011, 12:05 AM
Baldwin to KC Baltimore back on the clock.

LoganBuck
04-29-2011, 12:06 AM
Should the Bengals grab Bowers if he's available in the 2nd?

No, can't take the risk on that knee. Not for the Bengals. Who would you rather have, Bowers with the bad leg, or a healthy Cam Heyward?

I would take Heyward

Playadlc
04-29-2011, 12:07 AM
Mallett may be there when the Bengals pick in the 2nd.

Reds Fanatic
04-29-2011, 12:07 AM
NE just traded their pick to the Saints.

LoganBuck
04-29-2011, 12:07 AM
New England made a trade

KoryMac5
04-29-2011, 12:08 AM
NE does what it does and have traded the pick. Baltimore takes Smith which is a great pick for them.

LoganBuck
04-29-2011, 12:09 AM
New Orleans taking Mark Ingram

KoryMac5
04-29-2011, 12:10 AM
Good pick up for the Saints, Ingram will be cooking in that offense.

LoganBuck
04-29-2011, 12:12 AM
Players still available of Bengals interest

Andy Dalton
Ryan Mallet
Marvin Austin
Cam Heyward
Daquan Bowers
Akeem Ayers
Rahim Moore

KoryMac5
04-29-2011, 12:18 AM
Bengals trying hard to get back into the 1st according to Jay Glazer.

Reds Fanatic
04-29-2011, 12:20 AM
Bengals trying hard to get back into the 1st according to Jay Glazer.

From what I have read the new offensive coordinator really likes Dalton. If they are trying to trade up I would bet it would be to get Dalton.

KoryMac5
04-29-2011, 12:21 AM
Perfect pick for Da Bears, Carimi OT Wisc.

LoganBuck
04-29-2011, 12:21 AM
Bengals trying hard to get back into the 1st according to Jay Glazer.

Second time I have heard them mentioned in the last ten minutes. They are trying to get to Dalton.

CTA513
04-29-2011, 12:24 AM
From what I have read the new offensive coordinator really likes Dalton. If they are trying to trade up I would bet it would be to get Dalton.

Watch them get Dalton and pass up on Luck next season.

Playadlc
04-29-2011, 12:25 AM
There is a very good chance Dalton will be there at 35. Why trade up?

KoryMac5
04-29-2011, 12:26 AM
Buffalo will be looking QB too in the 2nd and NE will be looking to sell the pick they got from the Raiders. Dalton may be there he may not, I would roll the dice and if he is not there BPA.

LoganBuck
04-29-2011, 12:27 AM
Cam Heyward to Pittsburgh. Darn

KoryMac5
04-29-2011, 12:27 AM
Heyward snagged by the Steelers, ugggggh! Great pick for them.

Reds Fanatic
04-29-2011, 12:27 AM
I agree I don't think Dalton gets past the next 3 picks. Buffalo needs a QB and NE has also been interested.

KoryMac5
04-29-2011, 12:29 AM
If Dalton gets taken go BPA and hope Stanzi or Mallett tumble to round 3.

LoganBuck
04-29-2011, 12:31 AM
Buffalo will be looking QB too in the 2nd and NE will be looking to sell the pick they got from the Raiders. Dalton may be there he may not, I would roll the dice and if he is not there BPA.

Buffalo supposedly had a deal in place to trade up for Christian Ponder, into the early twenties. That fell through when he went to the Vikings. They are said to like Dalton.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-29-2011, 12:31 AM
Wow. 5 DL from the Big Ten in the 1st round. And another Taylor (from Baylor) was once at Penn State.

KoryMac5
04-29-2011, 12:33 AM
I also heard Buffalo likes the kid from Nevada too. Wow fun draft so far lots of chess moves going on too bad the bengals are alwasy playing checkers.

LoganBuck
04-29-2011, 12:36 AM
I also heard Buffalo likes the kid from Nevada too. Wow fun draft so far lots of chess moves going on too bad the bengals are alwasy playing checkers.

Truthfully playing in Buffalo don't you want the guy with the big arm? If you already control Ryan Fitzpatrick, why would you draft Dalton?

KoryMac5
04-29-2011, 12:38 AM
Fans in Buffalo would love Dalton, smart hard working kid, average arm but he more than makes up for it with smarts. However I heard they love the kid from Nevada and can groom him behind Fitz.

Buffalo may go Bowers and pair him with Dareus that would be pretty scary if the knee holds up.

fearofpopvol1
04-29-2011, 02:01 AM
Green is honestly a great pick. He's legit and a top talent with no real weaknesses.

As a Colts fan, I'm pretty happy with Castonzo. The Colts need O-Line help bad.

nmculbreth
04-29-2011, 02:31 AM
Green is honestly a great pick. He's legit and a top talent with no real weaknesses.

As a Colts fan, I'm pretty happy with Castonzo. The Colts need O-Line help bad.

I agree. Leading up to the draft I wasn't particularly wild about using such a high pick on a WR, but I've warmed to using the pick on A.J. Green. At the end of the day the Bengals were able to address a position of need, get a solid value for their pick and snag one of the safest players in the draft. By Bengals standards, that's not too shabby.

I think I would have probably taken Patrick Peterson over A.J. Green but other than him I can't think of another player I would have liked better in that slot. This year's QB class was vastly overrated and I don't think any of the remaining options offered a great value at where picking. Another OL would have been nice but again none of them warranted being selected that high. I think that Fairley could have been a nice addition, though with some of his off the field issues and his somewhat inconsistent play I can't exactly fault the Bengals for passing on him.

Caveat Emperor
04-29-2011, 04:11 AM
Green is honestly a great pick. He's legit and a top talent with no real weaknesses.

Top talent, crap value. You can find good WRs all over the draft if you scout properly. You need to use a Top-5 pick to do something that improves the core of your team -- OL, QB or Front 7.

Still, they did better than my Buccaneers -- who apparently decided to draft a DE who has a nerve condition in his right arm that prevents him from playing on the left side of the line, and who punched a cab driver in college. Sweet.

fearofpopvol1
04-29-2011, 04:36 AM
Top talent, crap value. You can find good WRs all over the draft if you scout properly. You need to use a Top-5 pick to do something that improves the core of your team -- OL, QB or Front 7.

Still, they did better than my Buccaneers -- who apparently decided to draft a DE who has a nerve condition in his right arm that prevents him from playing on the left side of the line, and who punched a cab driver in college. Sweet.

You said it yourself...you can find "good" WRs, but you can't find great ones. Green is a great one and the Bengals needed another target to throw to. I generally wouldn't draft a WR with the #5 pick, but Green is special. A Brandon Marshall/Calvin Johnson type is worth the high pick. Green is of that ilk.

Caveat Emperor
04-29-2011, 04:59 AM
You said it yourself...you can find "good" WRs, but you can't find great ones. Green is a great one and the Bengals needed another target to throw to. I generally wouldn't draft a WR with the #5 pick, but Green is special. A Brandon Marshall/Calvin Johnson type is worth the high pick. Green is of that ilk.

Funny, though, how virtually every top-pedigree, high pick "great" WRs over the last decade+ has never played on a SB winning teams while guys like Marques Colston (rd. 7), Greg Jennings (rd. 2), Deion Branch (rd. 2), and Hines Ward (rd. 3) hoist Lombardi Trophies.

LoganBuck
04-29-2011, 07:46 AM
Funny, though, how virtually every top-pedigree, high pick "great" WRs over the last decade+ has never played on a SB winning teams while guys like Marques Colston (rd. 7), Greg Jennings (rd. 2), Deion Branch (rd. 2), and Hines Ward (rd. 3) hoist Lombardi Trophies.

Super Bowl influencing RD1 WR in last five.
2011 none
2010 Reggie Wayne
2009 Santonio Holmes Larry Fitzgerald
2008 Plaxico Burress Randy Moss
2007 Marvin Harrison Reggie Wayne

Boss-Hog
04-29-2011, 08:13 AM
Fundamentally, I don't disagree with you at all - drafting a WR in the top five is not ideal. However, particularly with the other options that were available to the Bengals, let's not act as if this is a hard and fast rule to be followed. Otherwise, at your repeated imploring, your Bucs were absolutely correct in choosing (the late) Gaines Adams over Calvin Johnson, right? :)


Top talent, crap value. You can find good WRs all over the draft if you scout properly. You need to use a Top-5 pick to do something that improves the core of your team -- OL, QB or Front 7.

jojo
04-29-2011, 08:14 AM
The only things that could stop Greene from being a HOFer is injury or being drafted by a dysfunctional organization.

He's a weapon.

LoganBuck
04-29-2011, 08:19 AM
The only things that could stop Greene from being a HOFer is injury or being drafted by a dysfunctional organization.

He's a weapon.

Shoot

blumj
04-29-2011, 09:20 AM
I agree I don't think Dalton gets past the next 3 picks. Buffalo needs a QB and NE has also been interested.
Stranger things have happened, but BB with all day to auction off #33, it would be surprising, almost disappointing, if NE picks there.

The DARK
04-29-2011, 09:36 AM
If Andy Dalton is there, he really should be taken. He seems like a class act who could bring the franchise together if he can perform.

Wouldn't be surprised at all to see Mallett or Bowers go to the Bengals though. You know how management loves their "projects" ;).

jojo
04-29-2011, 10:49 AM
Mallet would be such a perfect fit for the Bengals its not even funny.... train wreck...meet conductor....

Caveat Emperor
04-29-2011, 11:07 AM
Fundamentally, I don't disagree with you at all - drafting a WR in the top five is not ideal. However, particularly with the other options that were available to the Bengals, let's not act as if this is a hard and fast rule to be followed. Otherwise, at your repeated imploring, your Bucs were absolutely correct in choosing (the late) Gaines Adams over Calvin Johnson, right? :)


I don't disagree that you can find extremely talented WRs at the very top of the draft. The one you mentioned -- Calvin Johnson -- was undoubtedly a better pick than Gaines Adams, but what has his selection netted the Lions?

There's no hard and fast rule to any of this, but it seems overwhelmingly the case that drafting a top-flight WR doesn't benefit a franchise over the long haul -- especially when there are other needs on a team. Better to wait and draft a WR after other pieces are in place (as Wayne and Holmes were) or utilize the late rounds and FA market to fill the position.

JaxRed
04-29-2011, 11:27 AM
To me the biggest winner in the draft was the Browns. What a boatload of choices for giving up that pick. Atlanta WAY overpaid.

KoryMac5
04-29-2011, 11:38 AM
To me the biggest winner in the draft was the Browns. What a boatload of choices for giving up that pick. Atlanta WAY overpaid.

It could have been better for them though if they didn't move back up to get Taylor. Taylor would have been on the board to the Browns at 27. I agree that was a nice trade the Browns made which could turn into something bigger.

WVRed
04-29-2011, 11:46 AM
To me the biggest winner in the draft was the Browns. What a boatload of choices for giving up that pick. Atlanta WAY overpaid.

I thought so too, but odds are the picks next year will be equally lower than what this years picks are.

Put it this way, if the Bengals had moved into the top 10 last year and traded away a first rounder this year to take say Dez Bryant, it would be an advantage to the opposing team. Atlanta is built to win division titles for years to come with only New Orleans being a constant threat in that division.

On the same token, the Saints traded away a first rounder next year to move up to get Mark Ingram. Advantage: New Orleans.

If I were Carolina right now, I'd have to ask myself who I would rather have had right now, Armanti Edwards or DaQuan Bowers. Hard to believe somebody that they were considering no 1 overall a couple months ago could have been had with the first second round pick had they not traded it away.

Mario-Rijo
04-29-2011, 12:20 PM
My thoughts:

Cleveland - Love (as much as I can love anything Cleveland related) their deal to move down it was a must, heck they are from one player away. Love the pick if it works out but Phil Taylor has some concerns around him with regards to work ethic/character. If he pans out it's a brilliant choice because he is about as talented a 340 pound man as there is. But when there are even whispers about work ethic I have to remain at least a bit concerned.

Grade A -

Baltimore - They took the right position, they took the right kind of talent but the player off the field is the concern. Look bottom line you draft players to enable you to win and whether they admit it or not most teams drafting in the bottom half (and most teams in general really) are looking to win short term. Most character concerns don't rear their head year 1. So with an aging core on defense it was time to make a move to see if they can go all the way one last time or 2, if they even just make it to the big game this will likely have been worth it to the Ravens fans when it's all said and done.

Grade B+

Pittsburgh - I don't know that they could have picked a better player for their scheme and whats more is the player himself has said this was his dream scenario. Being a Buckeye fan I may be a bit biased here but they got themselves a man, a real pro and a very good player and as a 3-4 DE he is the ideal type of player. I won't say he is the re-incarnation of Aaron Smith because I have enough respect for Smiths game but if Cam turns out to be anything close (and I think he can) Pittsburgh fans will be glad they took him someday. So ultimately what you have is a talented, highly skilled, professional, motivated individual who fits like a glove to what they do. And IMO they couldn't have made a better selection or even made a realistic deal that would have proved to be more fruitful. Wish they would have taken the A. Williams or Sherrod, but I think there are just as good if not better Corner & OL prospects in the 2nd and even 3rd (value wise).

Grade A+

Bengals - Well look the player is sound, some have said he is the #1 or #2 player on the board overall. If he turns out to be Calvin Johnson I will grade this up but I don't think his game speed is that good, of course I see him being better in some areas than Megatron. I think he is a great fit for this offense and I'm not at all concerned about him off the field, despite his suspension it's an isolated incident in my mind and if I were in these kids shoes....I can't say I wouldn't take 'em off and sell 'em for food, right.

The bad thing is we didn't make the most of the pick IMHO. When you get the kind of offer the Browns got and you are picking this early you have to take it, we are clearly more than one player away. Hell we could have taken Dalton with Atlanta's 1st, taken Greg Little at the start of 2 and with Atlanta's 2nd taken a RB/OL and with our early 3rd gotten the other and had offense pretty much squared away.

A.J. Green, maybe Dalton and perhaps even lose a later pick to move ahead of Buffalo to do it or maybe not get Dalton at all....

OR

Dalton, Little, Orlando Franklin, Taiwan Washington and extra 4th and 2 extra players next year? That's an easy one for me.

B -

IslandRed
04-29-2011, 12:42 PM
I don't disagree that you can find extremely talented WRs at the very top of the draft. The one you mentioned -- Calvin Johnson -- was undoubtedly a better pick than Gaines Adams, but what has his selection netted the Lions?

Not as much as drafting Suh. But...


There's no hard and fast rule to any of this, but it seems overwhelmingly the case that drafting a top-flight WR doesn't benefit a franchise over the long haul -- especially when there are other needs on a team. Better to wait and draft a WR after other pieces are in place (as Wayne and Holmes were) or utilize the late rounds and FA market to fill the position.

With the exception of quarterbacks, drafting a top-flight anything doesn't benefit the franchise over the long haul in the absence of plenty of company. WR is not necessarily where I'd start, all things being equal, but when the team needs as much as the Bengals need, it's more important that they hit on quality than on a specific position.

RiverRat13
04-29-2011, 12:43 PM
With the exception of quarterbacks, drafting a top-flight anything doesn't benefit the franchise over the long haul in the absence of plenty of company. WR is not necessarily where I'd start, all things being equal, but when the team needs as much as the Bengals need, it's more important that they hit on quality than on a specific position.

:thumbup:

bucksfan2
04-29-2011, 12:59 PM
Mario-Rijo building on your breakdown.

Browns - It is my opinion and I think the Browns are a team that is lacking in talent, especially at the skill position. They need an infusion of talent especially at WR's. Trading IMO was the smart move because it allowed them to compile picks. But it will all depend on how they spend the picks.

Grade: Inc

Ravens - They are going to need help on defense. I heard on the radio that their #1 CB was a guy they traded for in the middle of the season last year. They took the highest risk reward guy (outside of the QB's) in the draft. It was a smart pick considering it was later in the second round. Passing on their pick was Mike Tice like.

Grade: B-

Steelers - I have been a big Heyward fan throughout his entire career at OSU. I have my doubts as to whether he will be a productive NFL player. There were times that he would disappear in games. I was mad to see the Steelers pick Heyward because I don't want to root against him. I think it was more a luxury pick, although if you make the Super Bowl you have that luxury

Grade: C

Bengals - I subscribe to the theory that you don't draft WR's in the top 5 or even top 10. However he was rated the best player in the draft by many. The trade would have been an interesting move but Joe Reedy brought up that the Bengals likely would not have gotten the value for the pick (according to some sheet). I would have preferred Peterson but oh well and the Bengals have been lacking a deep threat since Henry died.

Grade: C+

Caveat Emperor
04-29-2011, 01:00 PM
SI.com sums up my feelings perfectly:


Bad organizations make bad draft-day decisions. The Bengals are a bad organization. And they made yet another bad draft-day decision. First-round wide receivers have an incredibly high rate of failure in the NFL. And the team has already tried and failed to win under the mistaken assumption that teams are built around wide receivers. Green is a great talent and could become a big-time NFL wideout. Regardless, the Bengals would have been better served with a stud interior lineman or pass rusher to shore up a defense that ranked 21st against the run (4.43 YPA) and 24th at rushing the passer (sack or INT on 7.95 percent of dropbacks).

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/draft-2011/tracker/draft_analysis/1.html?eref=sihp#ixzz1KvcmOZBx

bucksfan2
04-29-2011, 01:05 PM
SI.com sums up my feelings perfectly:



Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/draft-2011/tracker/draft_analysis/1.html?eref=sihp#ixzz1KvcmOZBx

If you read that whole article they don't like any of the picks. It was the most negative sentiment on the NFL draft that I have read.

RiverRat13
04-29-2011, 01:07 PM
While I would rather draft a big fella in the top 5, just who on the board deserved to go that high? And trying to hit the FA market at WR hasn't exactly paid dividends for the Bengals the last two years.

Boss-Hog
04-29-2011, 01:11 PM
Of course Calvin Johnson by himself hasn't made the Lions a winner (neither will A.J. Green alone make the Bengals a winner), but the Bucs drafting Calvin Johnson clearly would have made them a better team than drafting Gaines Adams.

I agree with your last point, though - better to have the infrastructure in place, at which point positions like WR can be filled fairly easily. Maybe not with superstars, but with players like a Garcon, Collie, Branch (in his prime), Welker, etc. As I mentioned, I wasn't thrilled about any of the players the Bengals had to choose from at four, but I'm really glad they didn't reach for a QB and think Green was the best choice of the available options.


I don't disagree that you can find extremely talented WRs at the very top of the draft. The one you mentioned -- Calvin Johnson -- was undoubtedly a better pick than Gaines Adams, but what has his selection netted the Lions?

There's no hard and fast rule to any of this, but it seems overwhelmingly the case that drafting a top-flight WR doesn't benefit a franchise over the long haul -- especially when there are other needs on a team. Better to wait and draft a WR after other pieces are in place (as Wayne and Holmes were) or utilize the late rounds and FA market to fill the position.

Boss-Hog
04-29-2011, 01:14 PM
With the exception of quarterbacks, drafting a top-flight anything doesn't benefit the franchise over the long haul in the absence of plenty of company. WR is not necessarily where I'd start, all things being equal, but when the team needs as much as the Bengals need, it's more important that they hit on quality than on a specific position.

I completely agree with this, too.

Boss-Hog
04-29-2011, 01:16 PM
While I would rather draft a big fella in the top 5, just who on the board deserved to go that high? And trying to hit the FA market at WR hasn't exactly paid dividends for the Bengals the last two years.
Exactly - we already know the Bengals don't like to move up or down in the draft very often, so knowing they were going to stay at #4, given who was available, who should they have picked that fits that mold?

Caveat Emperor
04-29-2011, 01:17 PM
While I would rather draft a big fella in the top 5, just who on the board deserved to go that high? And trying to hit the FA market at WR hasn't exactly paid dividends for the Bengals the last two years.

TO was incredibly productive for the Bengals -- Bryant was a medical case that even I could see just by watching his Tampa film. The Bengals lack of anything resembling a competent scouting and medical department doesn't change the fact that good WRs hit FA every year.

That's really my biggest point with taking a WR with a #4 pick. You can use the pick on any number of other positons -- some of which are difficult to fill in late rounds -- and build a very good WR corps from mid-round guys like Marques Colston, Mike Wallace, Wes Welker, Jordan Shipley, Mike Williams (TB), and Pierre Garcon.

Boss-Hog
04-29-2011, 01:19 PM
TO was incredibly productive for the Bengals -- Bryant was a medical case that even I could see just by watching his Tampa film. The Bengals lack of anything resembling a competent scouting and medical department doesn't change the fact that good WRs hit FA every year.

That's really my biggest point with taking a WR with a #4 pick. You can use the pick on any number of other positons -- some of which are difficult to fill in late rounds -- and build a very good WR corps from mid-round guys like Marques Colston, Mike Wallace, Wes Welker, Jordan Shipley, Mike Williams (TB), and Pierre Garcon.
I agree with this for the most part, though you notably left off Laveranues Coles (big WR bust in free agency). I know you're not a Bengals fan, but given their massive team needs and who was available at four, who would you have taken?

Oxilon
04-29-2011, 01:26 PM
I agree with this for the most part, though you notably left off Laveranues Coles (big WR bust in free agency). I know you're not a Bengals fan, but given their massive team needs and who was available at four, who would you have taken?

Seeing how Atlanta was trying to trade up, I would have gladly taken their picks and used our first pick on a offensive tackle, which amazingly enough might be our weakest position even with Carson Palmer gone.

Sea Ray
04-29-2011, 01:39 PM
Seeing how Atlanta was trying to trade up, I would have gladly taken their picks and used our first pick on a offensive tackle, which amazingly enough might be our weakest position even with Carson Palmer gone.

What OT interested you at #27?

Any word on whether Carson or Chad are allowed to be traded today?

WVRed
04-29-2011, 01:44 PM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/draft2011/news/story?id=6449377

Looks like they tried to make a deal with Green Bay to get Dalton.

I wouldn't be surprised if they do it with New England to move past Buffalo.

Puffy
04-29-2011, 01:45 PM
If you read that whole article they don't like any of the picks. It was the most negative sentiment on the NFL draft that I have read.

They liked the Giants pick ;)

Hoosier Red
04-29-2011, 02:06 PM
Seeing how Atlanta was trying to trade up, I would have gladly taken their picks and used our first pick on a offensive tackle, which amazingly enough might be our weakest position even with Carson Palmer gone.

I think it's a mistake to say that Atlanta would have offered the Bengals the same deal they offered the Browns.
As I understand most analysis said there were two top Wide Receivers, and then a pretty significant drop off. Even though Atlanta would have had their pick of the receivers if they traded with the Bengals, they always had a fall back option.

Once the Bengals drafted Green, ATL was put in a position of having to give up more because they had no leverage. Everyone in the world knew they wanted one of these two guys, and Green was already gone.

RichRed
04-29-2011, 02:13 PM
They liked the Giants pick ;)

They actually liked several of them (including the Redskins' - yay!), so I'm not really getting the "most negative" vibe.

RiverRat13
04-29-2011, 02:18 PM
That's really my biggest point with taking a WR with a #4 pick. You can use the pick on any number of other positons -- some of which are difficult to fill in late rounds -- and build a very good WR corps from mid-round guys like Marques Colston, Mike Wallace, Wes Welker, Jordan Shipley, Mike Williams (TB), and Pierre Garcon.

For every single mid-round WR you listed, I bet I could go back and find at least two or three WRs drafted around them that didn't pan out. For every Desean Jackson there's a Jerome Simpson and a Limas Sweed.

The '07 Giants had the best defensive line of the last few years. They had zero first round draft picks on that defensive line and Mathias Kiwanuka at pick #32 was the highest draftee on that entire starting front 7. The Patriots led the league in scoring last year with an offensive line that started one first rounder (also pick #32) and two guys that weren't drafted. Good players at any position can be found in the mid-rounds, but it is much tougher to find them and the success rate of mid-round picks is much, much lower than a top 5 pick. It's just that when the top-5 guy gets more pub when he doesn't pan out.

RichRed
04-29-2011, 02:21 PM
Mallet would be such a perfect fit for the Bengals its not even funny.... train wreck...meet conductor....

Never trust a QB with chinstrap facial hair (which he may or may not still have). Shows poor judgment.

I really missed my calling as an NFL scout.

Oxilon
04-29-2011, 02:57 PM
I think it's a mistake to say that Atlanta would have offered the Bengals the same deal they offered the Browns.
As I understand most analysis said there were two top Wide Receivers, and then a pretty significant drop off. Even though Atlanta would have had their pick of the receivers if they traded with the Bengals, they always had a fall back option.

Once the Bengals drafted Green, ATL was put in a position of having to give up more because they had no leverage. Everyone in the world knew they wanted one of these two guys, and Green was already gone.

So what exactly are you saying? The Falcons could have gotten the #4 overall pick for less than the #6 overall pick. I understand your reasoning but I don't agree with it personally. There's a chart with a slotted value for every pick that each team uses. The #4 overall pick is going to cost more than the #6 overall pick 100/100 times.

LoganBuck
04-29-2011, 03:10 PM
So what exactly are you saying? The Falcons could have gotten the #4 overall pick for less than the #6 overall pick. I understand your reasoning but I don't agree with it personally. There's a chart with a slotted value for every pick that each team uses. The #4 overall pick is going to cost more than the #6 overall pick 100/100 times.

Supply and demand. The Falcons could play the Bengals against the Browns. Knowing that if something fell through with the Bengals they could go to the Browns. Green and Jones were the highest rated WRs since Calvin Johnson came out. They are premium players. Once Green was off the board, Cleveland had more leverage to make a deal.

I will take Green, over the sack of crap the Browns will likely draft. For the record I hate the Phil Taylor pick. 3-4 nose tackle, playing in a 4-3 scheme. I think that weight will wear him down with injuries as well.

Hoosier Red
04-29-2011, 03:40 PM
So what exactly are you saying? The Falcons could have gotten the #4 overall pick for less than the #6 overall pick. I understand your reasoning but I don't agree with it personally. There's a chart with a slotted value for every pick that each team uses. The #4 overall pick is going to cost more than the #6 overall pick 100/100 times.

That chart is a guideline, every team uses it, but it's rarely stuck to 100%

If I have two players that I'm targeting, and I can live with either one, but I absolutely have to get one of the two, the every single time once one of those players is gone, the price for the next guy goes up.

fearofpopvol1
04-29-2011, 03:45 PM
I don't disagree that you can find extremely talented WRs at the very top of the draft. The one you mentioned -- Calvin Johnson -- was undoubtedly a better pick than Gaines Adams, but what has his selection netted the Lions?


Who has Calvin Johnson had to throw to him?? Jon Kitna? Dan Orlovsky? Drew Stanton?

If and when Stafford becomes and stays healthy, CJ's numbers will go up big time.

Who will throw to Green? I don't know. But even if Palmer goes, there are quite a few guys that are either free agents or QBs that could be obtained from other teams on the cheap.

Caveat Emperor
04-29-2011, 03:45 PM
I agree with this for the most part, though you notably left off Laveranues Coles (big WR bust in free agency). I know you're not a Bengals fan, but given their massive team needs and who was available at four, who would you have taken?

I'd have tried like hell to deal out of the pick (and I'll bet you could've nabbed a package similar to what Atlanta gave up to Cleveland) to try and fill multiple holes.

If I was stuck with the pick, I'd have gone Patrick Peterson or Tyron Smith. Peterson can move to S and give the Bengals that center field presence that Reed brings to BAL and Poleamalu brings to PITT. As for Smith -- well, any WR can look great when the QB has a clean pocket and time to throw. Why get 1 great WR when you can effectively upgrade your entire corps by buying your QB more time.

LoganBuck
04-29-2011, 03:46 PM
Bob Holtzman of ESPN reporting from PBS, just now, that Bengals sources are telling him that they will pick Andy Dalton at 35, and if he isn't available (gulp) they will take Ryan Mallet. If both are gone, there is no plan C at QB.

Caveat Emperor
04-29-2011, 03:47 PM
Bob Holtzman of ESPN reporting from PBS, just now, that Bengals sources are telling him that they will pick Andy Dalton at 35, and if he isn't available (gulp) they will take Ryan Mallet. If both are gone, there is no plan C.

With NE sitting at the top of R2, someone will deal up to grab Dalton if the Bengals wait.

LoganBuck
04-29-2011, 03:49 PM
With NE sitting at the top of R2, someone will deal up to grab Dalton if the Bengals wait.

Some chatter out there that New England is vetting Daquan Bowers' knee, and looking at Akeem Ayers. They need to upgrade pass rush.

WVRed
04-29-2011, 03:53 PM
Unless Cincinnati trades up....

Welcome to Cincinnati Ryan Mallet, where hopes and dreams of becoming a NFL player go to die.

RiverRat13
04-29-2011, 03:58 PM
Unless Cincinnati trades up....

Welcome to Cincinnati Ryan Mallet, where hopes and dreams of becoming a NFL player go to die.

You'd have to think Mike Brown is secretly hoping this happens, right? The thought of drafting an overachieving 6'2 QB of the future instead of the 6'6 cannon-armed Mallett has to make his stomach turn.

CTA513
04-29-2011, 04:00 PM
Unless Cincinnati trades up....

Welcome to Cincinnati Ryan Mallet, where hopes and dreams of becoming a NFL player go to die.

I hope the o-line magically improves as hes slower then Palmer even after all the injuries.

Caveat Emperor
04-29-2011, 04:07 PM
Unless Cincinnati trades up....

Welcome to Cincinnati Ryan Mallet, where hopes and dreams of becoming a NFL player go to die.

On the plus side, he's already on drugs, which should make his transition to Cincinnati a lot less painful.

WVRed
04-29-2011, 04:11 PM
You'd have to think Mike Brown is secretly hoping this happens, right? The thought of drafting an overachieving 6'2 QB of the future instead of the 6'6 cannon-armed Mallett has to make his stomach turn.

6'6 cannon arm

with poor athleticism

and off field issues.

As for Dalton, undersized, weaker arm, and a spread QB. So many people throw out Drew Brees comparisons, but Brees is the exception. Not to mention this might work if Sean Payton were the head coach.

Oxilon
04-29-2011, 04:11 PM
Truth be told, I think Ryan Mallett has a very good chance of becoming the best QB from this class. With that said, I'd say there's about half a dozen teams that could easily ruin any chance of that coming to fruition -- the Bengals obviously being one of them. The Bengals are just a toxic situation from the get-go. It's literally impossible for any player with questionable character to come here and succeed.

Puffy
04-29-2011, 04:23 PM
As for Dalton, undersized, weaker arm, and a spread QB. So many people throw out Drew Brees comparisons, but Brees is the exception. Not to mention this might work if Sean Payton were the head coach.

Well, Drew Brees was pretty good pre Sean Payton with Norv Turner......

Mutaman
04-29-2011, 04:38 PM
Re Packers: The negative about last year is that I can no longer complain about anything Ted Thompson does- ever. The man is clearly a genius and who am I to second guess him?

Paul Hornung once said- never draft an offensive lineman in the first round. If you want one, just walk down the street and sign the first big fat guy you meet. And now Thompson has drated one two years in a row. But, Bulaga worked out pretty good. And we've got a treasure at QB so keeping him healthy seems like a pretty good priority. And Sherrod seems like a good kid. So who am I to complain?

Mario-Rijo
04-29-2011, 05:00 PM
Just some info here...

Bengals.com Link (http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/The-Greening-of-Bengals/2e86668e-59ff-48ef-bc1e-f90385383965)


Lewis indicated the trade talk with the Falcons didn't yield the necessary value. He didn't say if Atlanta offered the same deal that Cleveland took: Atlanta gave up their second-rounder (59th) and fourth (124th) this year along with their first- and fourth-round picks in 2012 for the right to select Alabama wide receiver Julio Jones.

"We spoke to Atlanta numerous times over the last week, but we just felt good at not moving back to 27," Lewis said. "It's more than what we were willing to do and we felt good about the player we were going to stay there and take at No. 4."

So they didn't want to move to #27, there is no reason to believe they actually offered less for a higher selection. The Bengals wouldn't know value if it slapped them in the face RE: Saints '99. It's simple they convince themselves they have to have certain players and they stick to it more rigidly than anyone ever.

With that said I don't hate the Green pick but I probably would have given a slight edge to Patrick Peterson as the pick just because he was A.) considered the slightly better overall prospect B.) Arguably a potentially more pressing need and C.) Has the versatility to potentially fill either of 2 needs at Safety and CB if they don't re-sign Joseph assuming of course the future CBA allows him to be unrestricted. Of course if they have plans to let Chad go maybe that helps trump P2 so whatever but I would have taken that deal, any good organization would have.

Boss-Hog
04-29-2011, 05:42 PM
Seeing how Atlanta was trying to trade up, I would have gladly taken their picks and used our first pick on a offensive tackle, which amazingly enough might be our weakest position even with Carson Palmer gone.

Assuming a comparable (if not better) offer was on the table from the Falcons, then I agree it was a mistake not to take it. In theory, we should have actually been offered a slightly better package than Atlanta offered Cleveland since our pick would have given them the choice of Green/Jones, but Hoosier Red raises a very good point regarding the Falcons' lost bargaining power once the Bengals refused their offer and selected Green. What does bother me is the reasoning (coming from the Bengals) for turning down the trade 'because 27 would be too low' for their liking. Gee, did you ever consider that having that many extra picks to work with would give you plenty of opportunity to trade back up to a spot that is to your liking? That's exactly what Cleveland did (though the player they chose obviously would not have been a fit for the Bengals).

Boss-Hog
04-29-2011, 05:50 PM
Just some info here...

Bengals.com Link (http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/The-Greening-of-Bengals/2e86668e-59ff-48ef-bc1e-f90385383965)
With that said I don't hate the Green pick but I probably would have given a slight edge to Patrick Peterson as the pick just because he was A.) considered the slightly better overall prospect B.) Arguably a potentially more pressing need and C.) Has the versatility to potentially fill either of 2 needs at Safety and CB if they don't re-sign Joseph assuming of course the future CBA allows him to be unrestricted. Of course if they have plans to let Chad go maybe that helps trump P2 so whatever but I would have taken that deal, any good organization would have.
Per my above post, I'm with you on accepting the Falcons trade, though we likely won't ever know exactly what they offered us. I like Patrick Peterson a lot but there's no way CB is a more pressing need for the Bengals than WR. If you're considering Peterson a safety, that's a valid point because it's a huge weakness for us, but of all positions that I'd be reluctant to spend a top five pick on, safety's got to be towards the very top of the list (a little ahead of WR). To your last point, there's absolutely no way I see Chad back here. It was unlikely before Green was drafted and I'd say his selection makes it a formality that he's gone.

As far as resigning Joseph, that's exactly what I'd do, even though it won't be for the cheap prices the Bengals generally allocate for DBs. Assuming he actually wants to stay here (and I've read he's at least open to it), they should be able to get some sort of discount given his injury history, but I'll bet a lot of money (no pun intended) that they let Joseph walk and throw Leon Hall a big contract offer that he'll accept. IMO, that would be a huge mistake because Joseph, despite his injuries, is definitely a better player than Hall. I'd resign Joseph and let someone else overpay for Hall.

WVRed
04-29-2011, 06:05 PM
Just some info here...

Bengals.com Link (http://www.bengals.com/news/article-1/The-Greening-of-Bengals/2e86668e-59ff-48ef-bc1e-f90385383965)



So they didn't want to move to #27, there is no reason to believe they actually offered less for a higher selection. The Bengals wouldn't know value if it slapped them in the face RE: Saints '99. It's simple they convince themselves they have to have certain players and they stick to it more rigidly than anyone ever.

With that said I don't hate the Green pick but I probably would have given a slight edge to Patrick Peterson as the pick just because he was A.) considered the slightly better overall prospect B.) Arguably a potentially more pressing need and C.) Has the versatility to potentially fill either of 2 needs at Safety and CB if they don't re-sign Joseph assuming of course the future CBA allows him to be unrestricted. Of course if they have plans to let Chad go maybe that helps trump P2 so whatever but I would have taken that deal, any good organization would have.

I thought the same thing at first, but the difference between the Saints then and the Falcons now was that even with Ricky Williams, you could have guessed the Saints were going to be bad still. Not to mention the Redskins didn't have to trade down all the way to the end of the first round in an overall weak to average draft.

To me it's quality over quantity. Once the Bengals get a QB, whether it be Andy Dalton, Ryan Mallet, or even Andrew Luck next year, AJ Green is going to be a weapon at *insert QB here*'s disposal. Trading down might have guaranteed us our QB, but you are surrounding him with possibly weaker talent, and even then, I'm not sold entirely on Dalton.

Mario-Rijo
04-29-2011, 06:12 PM
Per my above post, I'm with you on accepting the Falcons trade, though we likely won't ever know exactly what they offered us. I like Patrick Peterson a lot but there's no way CB is a more pressing need for the Bengals than WR. If you're considering Peterson a safety, that's a valid point because it's a huge weakness for us, but of all positions that I'd be reluctant to spend a top five pick on, safety's got to be towards the very top of the list (a little ahead of WR). To your last point, there's absolutely no way I see Chad back here. It was unlikely before Green was drafted and I'd say his selection makes it a formality that he's gone.

As far as resigning Joseph, that's exactly what I'd do, even though it won't be for the cheap prices the Bengals generally allocate for DBs. Assuming he actually wants to stay here (and I've read he's at least open to it), they should be able to get some sort of discount given his injury history, but I'll bet a lot of money (no pun intended) that they let Joseph walk and throw Leon Hall a big contract offer that he'll accept. IMO, that would be a huge mistake because Joseph, despite his injuries, is definitely a better player than Hall. I'd resign Joseph and let someone else overpay for Hall.

I'll say this about Chad he is at least under contract currently from what I can tell, so they have the option of having him back as a starting WR in a year where we aren't likely to be competitive (seeing as how they seem content playing a rookie QB). Whereas there is a chance we won't be able to re-sign J-Jo because from what I've heard he was asking for top dollar back when the Bengals had a brief opportunity to re-sign him. I think this is why they hung that 1st and 3rd compensation tag on him. With that plus Adam Jones's health being uncertain we could be looking at Ghee or Trent starting. If they do keep (if he ends up restricted) or re-sign J-Jo then Peterson could make that transition to safety or nickelback for another season to potentially replace Hall. Just seems like a more practical pick to me I guess.

Boss-Hog
04-29-2011, 06:17 PM
I'll say this about Chad he is at least under contract currently from what I can tell, so they have the option of having him back as a starting WR in a year where we aren't likely to be competitive (seeing as how they seem content playing a rookie QB). Whereas there is a chance we won't be able to re-sign J-Jo because from what I've heard he was asking for top dollar back when the Bengals had a brief opportunity to re-sign him. I think this is why they hung that 1st and 3rd compensation tag on him. With that plus Adam Jones's health being uncertain we could be looking at Ghee or Trent starting. If they do keep (if he ends up restricted) or re-sign J-Jo then Peterson could make that transition to safety or nickelback for another season to potentially replace Hall. Just seems like a more practical pick to me I guess.
Regarding Chad, with two other unproven WR's in the last year of their deals (Simpson and Caldwell), there's no way I can imagine them keeping Chad and playing him over those two. They need to find out beyond a three game sample size if one or both of those two are worth keeping long-term and they can't do that with Green, Chad and Shipley as your top three WRs. Plus, to a lesser extent, as you mentioned, the Bengals are very likely going to stink in 2011 anyway, so I don't see any point in keeping Chad around.

Mario-Rijo
04-29-2011, 06:25 PM
I thought the same thing at first, but the difference between the Saints then and the Falcons now was that even with Ricky Williams, you could have guessed the Saints were going to be bad still. Not to mention the Redskins didn't have to trade down all the way to the end of the first round in an overall weak to average draft.

To me it's quality over quantity. Once the Bengals get a QB, whether it be Andy Dalton, Ryan Mallet, or even Andrew Luck next year, AJ Green is going to be a weapon at *insert QB here*'s disposal. Trading down might have guaranteed us our QB, but you are surrounding him with possibly weaker talent, and even then, I'm not sold entirely on Dalton.

Not so sure about that. Greg Little is a guy we could have taken at the top of 2 if they insisted on taking a WR early and while he may not be Green he could be a very good starting WR in this league, I see him as an Anquan Boldin type of guy. Then they have additional selections to add RB/OL etc. Plus the ammo to move up next year for a franchise QB in Luck, Barkley or maybe Landry Jones if the latter 2 come out. If not they can pull a page out of N.E.'s playbook and deal for a future 1st in 2013. Bottom line to me is this is a rebuilding if Palmer is indeed gone, quantity fits just as well maybe moreso.

Mario-Rijo
04-29-2011, 06:27 PM
Regarding Chad, with two other unproven WR's in the last year of their deals (Simpson and Caldwell), there's no way I can imagine them keeping Chad and playing him over those two. They need to find out beyond a three game sample size if one or both of those two are worth keeping long-term and they can't do that with Green, Chad and Shipley as your top three WRs. Plus, to a lesser extent, as you mentioned, the Bengals are very likely going to stink in 2011 anyway, so I don't see any point in keeping Chad around.

Either way you have Simpson, Caldwell and Shipley probably should have run with it.

RiverRat13
04-29-2011, 06:58 PM
There's a good chance we find out who has final say in the Bengal organization if both Dalton and Mallet are there.

Sea Ray
04-29-2011, 07:05 PM
I would take Mallet. Dalton is too short

KoryMac5
04-29-2011, 07:08 PM
Mike Brown likes Mallett and the coaching staff loves Dalton, who wins? If the Bengals walk away with Green and Dalton give this draft an A from me!

KoryMac5
04-29-2011, 07:11 PM
Patriots go Dowling, good big corner. Nice value in the 2nd. They still need a pass rusher though, maybe Bowers?

KoryMac5
04-29-2011, 07:16 PM
Bills go Williams CB from Texas, Bengals will get that QB they want without trading up.

Reds Fanatic
04-29-2011, 07:17 PM
Hopefully this is Dalton

Reds Fanatic
04-29-2011, 07:20 PM
Great pick for the Bengals. I really did not think he would be here for this pick

KoryMac5
04-29-2011, 07:21 PM
Love this pick for the Bengals, great draft so far for the Bengals!

Puffy
04-29-2011, 07:23 PM
The bad thing about the Bengals picking Dalton is he can run onto the field without a helmet and who would know??

fearofpopvol1
04-29-2011, 07:38 PM
Another very good pick for the Bengals. Their draft is off to a great start.

reds1869
04-29-2011, 07:49 PM
Another great pick. What, did Mike hire some scouts or something?

cincrazy
04-29-2011, 08:00 PM
I would take Mallet. Dalton is too short

Dalton is taller than Drew Brees. Just sayin'.

KoryMac5
04-29-2011, 08:08 PM
Mallett is a statue out there great arm with limited mobility. On the Bengals he would get sacked 60 times a year in the AFC North. James Harrison and Co. would be salivating.

CTA513
04-29-2011, 08:10 PM
Dalton will also get sacked a bunch unless they upgrade the o-line.

CTA513
04-29-2011, 09:42 PM
WR Cobb from UK went to the Packers at #64

CTA513
04-29-2011, 09:47 PM
Bengals take Dontay Moch from Nevada in round #3

KoryMac5
04-29-2011, 09:51 PM
Moch is freakish quick, ran an unofficial 4.2 40 and as Mel said has legit 4.3 speed. Another really good pick and the first for Zimmer.

Reds Fanatic
04-29-2011, 09:52 PM
Here is a scouting report on Moch:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/dontay-moch?id=2495203#tab=0


Moch's a college defensive end and lacks size to keep his hand down in the NFL but is blessed with the burst and athleticism to develop into a 4-3 outside linebacker. Has the potential to be a pass rushing specialist. Lacks experience playing standing up in space, finding the football, and in pass coverage but fluid and quick enough to develop in these areas. Relentless in pursuit. Not stout at the point of attack and also doesn't currently have a wide arsenal of pass rushing moves. It may take some time, but Moch has several redeeming qualities. Mid-round prospect

UKFlounder
04-29-2011, 10:05 PM
Sounds like a 3rd round project, but I guess that's less of an issue than when they tried the same thing with Reinard Wilson in the 1st round

CTA513
04-29-2011, 10:12 PM
Patriots just took Mallet

KoryMac5
04-29-2011, 10:13 PM
Zimmer is pretty good at finding spots for guys. I would imagine he will be a third down specialist and special teams beast his rookie season.

blumj
04-29-2011, 10:14 PM
Patriots just took Mallet
Belichick is a troll, he's just messing with everyone.

fearofpopvol1
04-30-2011, 12:16 AM
I think Moch is solid. Not polished (yet), but has great tools and the potential to be a stud. It's definitely not a bad pick. I think the Bengals have done quite well thus far.

I'm very happy with the Colts picks thus far as well.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-30-2011, 12:26 AM
I'm kind of meh on Dalton and hope I'm wrong. Even though I mentioned to stay away from Mallet earlier (Leaf/Anderson comp), I think he has a higher ceiling (with the obvious higher risk).

For those complaining about Green, are you okay with Dalton? I'm the opposite. Love Green, but more like bored with Dalton.

CTA513
04-30-2011, 01:11 AM
Seahawks WR Golden Tate: "Where will Carlson Palmer go?"

http://twitter.com/#!/ShowtimeTate/status/64092785724235776


I'm wondering if the Palmer to the Seahawks rumor posted on the Bengals.com forum a few days ago by a Seahawks fan might have some truth.

SeeinRed
04-30-2011, 02:38 AM
Seahawks WR Golden Tate: "Where will Carlson Palmer go?"

http://twitter.com/#!/ShowtimeTate/status/64092785724235776 (http://twitter.com/#!/ShowtimeTate/status/64092785724235776)


I'm wondering if the Palmer to the Seahawks rumor posted on the Bengals.com forum a few days ago by a Seahawks fan might have some truth.

I honestly doubt it. From what I recall, a similar rumor was first floated around a couple months ago. Most people around Mike Brown say he will not budge from this one. I tend to agree. Not saying it won't happen, but I'd be suprised if it did.

fearofpopvol1
04-30-2011, 04:49 AM
Mel Kiper Jr. on ESPN just said that so far, he thinks the Bengals have had the most impressive draft of any team.

dabvu2498
04-30-2011, 07:59 AM
Belichick is a troll, he's just messing with everyone.

That's what I keep thinking. They drafted Mallet just so they can cut him the 2nd week of camp.

TheBigLebowski
04-30-2011, 10:07 AM
Thrilled with the Bengals draft so far....loved every pick. Hoping we get Ahmad Black today in the 5th round...spend the rest of the picks on either side of the line.

bucksfan2
04-30-2011, 10:18 AM
Couple of thoughts so far on the draft.

I am liking the Green pick more and more with each passing day (because there have been so many). The biggest thing that this offense has been lacking over the past year and a half is a deep threat to take a safety over the top. Green looks to have the potential to do that.

I liked the Dalton pick but I don't know why. It may be because Gruden loved him so much. It may be because he was rising up draft boards. I think his game fits the new NFL in that he has the agility to escape the pocket. For some reason I keep thinking Trent Dilfer type of player. A game manager who when put in the right situation will win but doesn't possess that quality to take the team on his shoulders.

As for Moch I really don't know. I thought there was a lot of value still out there. He may be the perfect Bengals type pick. A guy who has outstanding measureables but will be converting to a new position. I also don't like drafting a guy projected as a situational player in the 3rd round. IMO there were more pressing needs, S, CB, OL, RB, etc. than drafting a LB/DE/Pass rusher in the 3rd round.

I am hopeful they can land a guy like Chekwa who could bolster their secondary. Other than that they need to draft OL and at least one RB.

Mario-Rijo
04-30-2011, 11:57 AM
Thrilled with the Bengals draft so far....loved every pick. Hoping we get Ahmad Black today in the 5th round...spend the rest of the picks on either side of the line.


Lacks prototypical size and bulk for the position and top-end speed is below average as well.

These are my concerns with this guy. Not big enough for SS and not fast enough for either Safety position IMO. I think we need a potential answer at Strong Safety and the 2 guys I like are Joe Lefeged (4th or 5th) of Syracuse & Robert Sands (5th or 6th) of WV. Beyond those 2 not a big fan of anyone else, lots of slow stiff types or thugs.

LoganBuck
04-30-2011, 01:21 PM
Bengals fourth round pick is Georgia OL Clint Boling, this is a guy I wanted bad. Great player, with loads of experience from the SEC. Good pick, I am really liking this draft.

Bengals keep the tradition of drafting multiple players from the same school going as well. Cuts down on scouting costs:thumbup:

Reds Fanatic
04-30-2011, 01:25 PM
I really like the Boling pick. Here is a scouting report on Boling:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/clint-boling?id=2495123

CTA513
04-30-2011, 02:51 PM
Bengals picked S Robert Sands in the 5th

Reds Fanatic
04-30-2011, 02:54 PM
Scouting report on Sands: http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/robert-sands?id=2495505

LoganBuck
04-30-2011, 03:23 PM
With this pick Dave Lapham's prediction was right on.

He said Green
He said QB at 2
He said they were targeting an OLB, and a S.

What is the knock on Sands? I keep seeing nice reports on him, but admittedly I haven't paid close attention to West Virginia Football. He looks like a Strong Safety, is that why he fell? Because he is scheme specific?

LoganBuck
04-30-2011, 03:28 PM
I would like to see a running back snared sometime soon. I still love John Clay. Give me a battering ram.

KoryMac5
04-30-2011, 03:53 PM
Been very pleased with the Bengals 2010 and 2011 drafts. Really excited to see Green in action he looks very smooth and while Dalton doesn't have measureables the kid is fiery which I think well go over well in Bengal land.

Hopefully the Bengals can find a late round gem, love the 4th and 5th round guys!

Reds Fanatic
04-30-2011, 04:33 PM
Bengals 6th round pick:

Ryan Whalen WR Stanford

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/ryan-whalen?id=2495245

Mario-Rijo
04-30-2011, 04:39 PM
Bengals 6th round pick:

Ryan Whalen WR Stanford

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2011/profiles/ryan-whalen?id=2495245

Don't like this pick, don't even see a need. I would have went RB here or if not I would have looked at Mark Herzlich, Mario Harvey or a TE like Virgil Green.

Mario-Rijo
04-30-2011, 04:47 PM
With this pick Dave Lapham's prediction was right on.

He said Green
He said QB at 2
He said they were targeting an OLB, and a S.

What is the knock on Sands? I keep seeing nice reports on him, but admittedly I haven't paid close attention to West Virginia Football. He looks like a Strong Safety, is that why he fell? Because he is scheme specific?

It wasn't a tough prediction I pretty much nailed it myself. In fact at one time or another I had Green 1st, Dalton 2nd, Moch 3rd, Boling 4th & Sands 5th. I always had hope certain guys would drop allowing for better value at some spots and at times not sure if they would be available but usually had QB 2nd, OL or OLB 3rd the opposite in the 4th and Safety 5th.

As far as Sands goes he was one of my early favorites. He is a bit stiff and not great in coverage but he is a big, physical SS type with solid speed, hands, character etc. I guess one might say he is like a poor mans Roy Williams but he has enough tools to be decent at some point in zone coverage.

LoganBuck
04-30-2011, 04:47 PM
Don't like this pick, don't even see a need. I would have went RB here or if not I would have looked at Mark Herzlich, Mario Harvey or a TE like Virgil Green.

Totally agree. This is a wasted pick. Who would go to make room for this athletically limited guy? Lots of guys left that I would rather take a flyer on. Defensive players with upside potential still on the board, running backs, linebackers, and more safeties. Heck if you wanted a WR, why not look at a couple of the local guys? Dane Sanzenbacher and Armon Binns are still there.

Mario-Rijo
04-30-2011, 04:51 PM
Totally agree. This is a wasted pick. Who would go to make room for this athletically limited guy? Lots of guys left that I would rather take a flyer on. Defensive players with upside potential still on the board, running backs, linebackers, and more safeties. Heck if you wanted a WR, why not look at a couple of the local guys? Dane Sanzenbacher and Armon Binns are still there.

I have noticed in the past the Bengals have this strange fascination with selecting late round WR's especially when they draft a QB. And they almost always take 2 WR's at a time, Mike Brown is just obsessed with the passing game. Had I went WR I would have went Ricardo Lockette a 6'2 211 pound burner out of Ft. Valley State.

LoganBuck
04-30-2011, 04:51 PM
One pick after Whalen the Vikings took Demarcus Love. I would rather seen a big body like him that can play tackle brought in for depth and development.

LoganBuck
04-30-2011, 05:14 PM
If anybody catches this Andy Dalton is getting ready to come on the NFL Network coverage.

WVRed
05-01-2011, 12:23 AM
Don't like this pick, don't even see a need. I would have went RB here or if not I would have looked at Mark Herzlich, Mario Harvey or a TE like Virgil Green.

I'm not going to complain about a sixth round pick. If he pans out, fine, but second day is generally a crapshoot.

For the most part, I love this draft. Green, Boling, and Sands I believe can be studs if used correctly. I think Dalton is going to be the key for the Bengals and this draft and whether or not he can win.

The sad realization is that the Bengals need a QB who can win in Cincinnati IN SPITE OF Mike Brown. You need a Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, or Drew Brees type of QB to be successful here, and Palmer was probably the closest thing to that. I don't think Andy Dalton could reach that level, but Andrew Luck is the one who could.

Razor Shines
05-01-2011, 01:07 PM
I'm very happy with the Colts picks thus far as well.

Me too. I love using the first two picks on O linemen. Improve the running game and protect Manning. Done and done.

redsfanmia
05-01-2011, 03:50 PM
Me too. I love using the first two picks on O linemen. Improve the running game and protect Manning. Done and done.

I think the Colts did fine with the draft, I trust Polian. I like the bowling ball running back they picked up. I was kind of surprised they picked up guys with character issues though.

Revering4Blue
05-01-2011, 05:17 PM
I think the Colts did fine with the draft, I trust Polian. I like the bowling ball running back they picked up. I was kind of surprised they picked up guys with character issues though.

I agree. However, I have to admit that I was a little disappointed that they passed on local hero, Tanden Doss in round 4, who would have given the receiving corp a shot in the arm and helped the return game,as well. I was even more disappointed that Doss went to the Ratbirds..Yuck!

From where I'm sitting, they could have taken Doss and gone after someone like John Clay, who wasn't drafted, later to fill the battering-Ram role. But, as you stated, it's difficult to second guess Polian, and the receiving corp should benefit from the return of Clark and Gonzalez.

Still, plenty to smile about.

Revering4Blue
05-01-2011, 05:20 PM
Top undrafted players.


GBN 'BIG BOARD':
REMAINING TOP PROSPECTS FOR THE 2011 DRAFT
(* indicates underclassman; (O) indicates off-field issue or (X) injury could cloud draft status)

DeAndre McDaniel FS Clemson
Pat Devlin QB Delaware
Jeron Johnson FS Boise State
Deunta Williams FS North Carolina (X)
Ray Dominquez OT Arkansas
Mark Herzlich LB Boston College (X)
Terrance Tolliver WR LSU
Pierre Allen DE Nebraska
Ian Williams DT Notre Dame
Kris O'Dowd C Southern California (X)
Derrick Locke RB Kentucky
Adrien Moten LB Maryland
Joe Lefeged FS Rutgers
Ricardo Lockette WR Fort Valley State
Cedric Thornton DT Southern Arkansas
Jarriel King OT South Carolina
Ugo Chinasa DE Oklahoma State
Zach Hurd OG UConn
Tim Barnes C Missouri
Josh Byrnes LB Auburn
Brandon Bair DE Oregon (DT)
Martin Parker DT Richmond
Noel Devine RB West Virginia
Ryan Jones CB Northwest Missouri State
Nick Bellore LB Central Michigan
Mario Harvey LB Marshall
Willie Smith OT East Carolina
Scott Lutrus LB UConn
*Jerrard Tarant FS Georgia Tech
*Tori Gurley WR South Carolina
Alex Wujciak LB Maryland
*Weslye Saunders TE South Carolina (O)
*Will Hill FS Florida
Kendric Burney CB North Carolina
Kai Forbath PK UCLA
Terrance Turner WR Indiana
Alex Linnenkohl C Oregon State
Ryan Winterswyck DE Boise State
Orie Lemon LB Oklahoma State
Sealver Silga DT Utah
Henry Hynoski FB Pittsburgh
Kyle Hix OT Texas
Scott Tolzein QB Wisconsin
Ryan Donahue P Iowa
David Sims SS Iowa State
Justin Boren OG Ohio State
Brian Duncan LB Texas Tech
Adam Grant OT Arizona
Ollie Ogbu DT Penn State
Zane Taylor C Utah
Jeremiha Hunter LB Iowa
Mike McNeill TE Nebraska
Andrew Rich SS BYU
Josh Portis QB Californai (PA)
*Darren Evans RB Virginia Tech (X)
Adrian Taylor DT Oklahoma (X)
Josh Jasper PK LSU
Devon Torrence CB Ohio State
Peanut Joseph LB Temple
Mana Silva FS Hawaii
Jerrod Johnson QB Texas A&M
*DeAndre Brown WR Southern Mississippi
Bryant Browning OG Ohio State
Schuyler Oordt TE Northern Iowa
Quentin Davie LB Northwestern
Mario Fannin RB Auburn
Andre Holmes WR Hillsdale
Derrell Smith LB Syracuse
Dane Sansenbacher WR Ohio State
Chas Henry P Florida
Colby Whitlock DT Texas Tech
Stephen Friday DE Virginia Tech
Charlie Gantt TE Michigan State
*Tom Keiser LB Stanford (DE)
Brandon Saine RB Ohio State
Taylor Potts QB Texas Tech
Zac Etheridge SS Auburn
*John Clay RB Wisconsin
Ryan Colburn QB Fresno State
Ladi Ajiboye DT South Carolina
Josh Davis OT Georgia
Jeff Van Camp QB Florida Atlantic
Nate Williams SS Washington
Anthony Gray DT Southern Missisippi
Marshall Williams WR Wake Forest
Eric Gordon LB Michigan State (SS)

http://www.gbnreport.com/updatedtop100.html

WMR
05-01-2011, 08:06 PM
Is this kid going to be able to get the ball down the field in December in Pittsburgh when it's snowing?

AJ Green is an incredible weapon...

Heard a draft guru ripping Dalton's arm strength... You need a strong-armed QB in the AFC North.

WMR
05-01-2011, 08:07 PM
I would love to see the Bengals give Derrick Locke a look. If he gets past the injury bug that has plagued him off and on the past couple years, he has Reggie Bush type potential... Low risk high reward move.

redsfanmia
05-01-2011, 08:19 PM
Is this kid going to be able to get the ball down the field in December in Pittsburgh when it's snowing?

AJ Green is an incredible weapon...

Heard a draft guru ripping Dalton's arm strength... You need a strong-armed QB in the AFC North.

You forgot to mention Daulton's biggest weakness....his red hair. Can you name me one great red headed quarterback?

redsfanmia
05-01-2011, 08:25 PM
I agree. However, I have to admit that I was a little disappointed that they passed on local hero, Tanden Doss in round 4, who would have given the receiving corp a shot in the arm and helped the return game,as well. I was even more disappointed that Doss went to the Ratbirds..Yuck!

From where I'm sitting, they could have taken Doss and gone after someone like John Clay, who wasn't drafted, later to fill the battering-Ram role. But, as you stated, it's difficult to second guess Polian, and the receiving corp should benefit from the return of Clark and Gonzalez.

Still, plenty to smile about.

I was hoping they would take Doss as well, I think he would be been a good solid fill in for when Anthony Gonzalez gets hurt on the third play of the season. I think Doss would have been a plus on special teams as well.

Hopefully getting the two offensive linemen will help the short game running along with the bowling ball running back. Hopefully they get Kevin Thomas back in the secondary and they stay relatively healthy and make a run next year.

WVRed
05-01-2011, 09:55 PM
I would love to see the Bengals give Derrick Locke a look. If he gets past the injury bug that has plagued him off and on the past couple years, he has Reggie Bush type potential... Low risk high reward move.

I'm a Kentucky fan, but Locke is going to have problems, especially if the spine injury reports are true. In addition to injuries, he's undersized for a NFL RB. He's in the same boat as Noel Devine from West Virginia, and Devine was more heralded coming out of high school. It's funny how eerily similar careers the two have had.

WMR
05-01-2011, 10:09 PM
I'm a Kentucky fan, but Locke is going to have problems, especially if the spine injury reports are true. In addition to injuries, he's undersized for a NFL RB.

None of this is news. It's precisely why he wasn't drafted.

Hence why you bring him in as an UFA.

It's unquestionable that he has been electric when healthy. Will he ever be that player again? Who knows.

Caveat Emperor
05-01-2011, 11:10 PM
You forgot to mention Daulton's biggest weakness....his red hair. Can you name me one great red headed quarterback?

Sure:

http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/2010/writers/don_banks/03/30/mcnabb/sonny-jurgensen.jpg

Kingspoint
05-01-2011, 11:41 PM
...and...

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/$(KGrHqF,!i8E1M8eI)g4BN(dT9eepw~~_3.JPG

Kingspoint
05-01-2011, 11:44 PM
.....and...

http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/528/607/archiemanning_display_image.jpg?1290896699

redsfanmia
05-02-2011, 04:46 PM
I was only joking about the red head thing, didn't someone come out in Sports Illustrated and say that?

Roy Tucker
05-02-2011, 05:34 PM
I'm bummed that OSU's Cam Heyward got drafted by the Steelers.

Great career with my Buckeyes and now I'm going to have to hate him as a Steeler. Great pick by them, I'm sure he'll fit in well with their defense.

Bah.

Sea Ray
05-03-2011, 04:59 PM
I'm bummed that OSU's Cam Heyward got drafted by the Steelers.

Great career with my Buckeyes and now I'm going to have to hate him as a Steeler. Great pick by them, I'm sure he'll fit in well with their defense.

Bah.

Too bad how that works. I had to do the same thing with RB Jamal Lewis and the Ravens

Playadlc
05-04-2011, 03:24 AM
Too bad how that works. I had to do the same thing with RB Jamal Lewis and the Ravens

It really does suck. I had to do it with Randle El.

God I hate the Steelers.