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Redsfan320
04-17-2011, 10:10 AM
Stubbs 8
Cairo 4
Votto 3
Rolen 5
Gomes 7
Bruce 9
Hernandez 2
Janish 6
Volquez 1

Why no RR at 2B?

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oneupper
04-17-2011, 10:13 AM
REDgar Renteria? (RR)

Redsfan320
04-17-2011, 10:14 AM
REDgar Renteria? (RR)

When he was first signed, I used ER, but everyone else seemed to use RR, presumably for RenteRia, so I went with it. It didn't make much sense to me, but when in Rome...

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Tornon
04-17-2011, 11:44 AM
Why no RR at 2B?

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Cairo is the #2 second baseman according to Dusty

PuffyPig
04-17-2011, 11:47 AM
Why no RR at 2B?



RR has played 4 innings at 2B in his MLB life, all this year.

He's the backup SS and will only be used at2sB and 3B in an emergency or mop up duty (like yesterday).

Tom Servo
04-17-2011, 12:45 PM
A bit surprised Rolen's in there, but I guess with BP out Dusty figures he needs him.

Puffy
04-17-2011, 12:47 PM
A bit surprised Rolen's in there, but I guess with BP out Dusty figures he needs him.

Why? Rolen sat out yesterday's game.

Tom Servo
04-17-2011, 12:49 PM
Why? Rolen sat out yesterday's game.
Whoops, shows how close I pay attention. :redface:

reds44
04-17-2011, 01:11 PM
And here we go again.

OldRightHander
04-17-2011, 01:12 PM
Here we go again. Left the fastball up and he took care of it.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 01:13 PM
Same old Edinson... hope he can make it through the first. :rolleyes:

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 01:13 PM
Here we go again. back to back jacks to start the game. 2-0 Pirates.

I DO hope he turns it around and rights the ship....but how many times do we have to see this before we take steps? But he's our best starter...right?

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 01:14 PM
Runs are runs, no matter when they score them. Volquez is simply putting his team in a bind each game he starts. This is just ludicrous. Two HR's and a walk so far.

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 01:15 PM
Here we go again. back to back jacks to start the game. 2-0 Pirates.

I DO hope he turns it around and rights the ship....but how many times do we have to see this before we take steps? But he's our best starter...right?Not so far. Far from it. Now a double and no outs. Great Goodness!

Red in Chicago
04-17-2011, 01:15 PM
EV should pitch for the Dodgers, since their crowd always shows up fashionably late. They wouldn't be subjected to these first inning crap.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 01:16 PM
9 pitches, no outs, 2 runs, men on the corners. Can he pitch his 1st inning in Louisville and THEN come up to Cincy for the rest of the game? :laugh:

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 01:16 PM
Not so far. Far from it. Now a double and no outs. Great Goodness!

Sorry. That was sarcasm. We had a bit of a discussion in yesterday's gamethread where it was put forth that Edinson was our best starter. I just don't see or understand how anybody can justify that statement.

I hope Matt Maloney is stretching.

OldRightHander
04-17-2011, 01:17 PM
Nice pitch for the K there. Needed that earlier.

The Operator
04-17-2011, 01:18 PM
These first inning shenanigans are really getting old. It has to be mental at this point.

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 01:19 PM
Sorry. That was sarcasm. We had a bit of a discussion in yesterday's gamethread where it was put forth that Edinson was our best starter. I just don't see or understand how anybody can justify that statement.

I hope Matt Maloney is stretching.Sorry, SC. There is what I call a "Cult" of folks who will believe that if he's still pitching like that in August. I don't see it either and probably never will. He's given us 4 months of ace-like pitching since he's been here. Patience? I'm about out. Fire away!

edabbs44
04-17-2011, 01:19 PM
Milwaukee, Houston, SD at Petco and the Pirates. EV has been lucky that he hasn't been facing real offenses while pulling this act.

The Operator
04-17-2011, 01:20 PM
Bases loaded, 1 out. Ugh.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 01:20 PM
Milwaukee, Houston, SD at Petco and the Pirates. EV has been lucky that he hasn't been facing real offenses while pulling this act.

Exactly.

OldRightHander
04-17-2011, 01:21 PM
Maybe let Coco pitch the first and bring in EV in the second inning?

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 01:21 PM
He actually is our best pitcher AFTER the first inning...his ERA is under 2.00 after the first. In the first inning he's our WORST pitcher...I think Janish could do better in the first, heck I could do better in the first. :p

RedsManRick
04-17-2011, 01:22 PM
He's the consummate thrower. Doesn't have any clue where the ball is going.

The Operator
04-17-2011, 01:22 PM
Walks in a run. Lol.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 01:23 PM
He actually is our best pitcher AFTER the first inning...his ERA is under 2.00 after the first. In the first inning he's our WORST pitcher...I think Janish could do better in the first, heck I could do better in the first. :p

Sorry, you can't pick and choose what innings count. He's our WORST starter in my book right now.

Bases loaded walk. 3-0 now.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 01:23 PM
I thought that foul was going to land in the middle of that guys giant plate of chili cheese fries. That would have been spectacular!

Volquie walks in run #3. :(

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 01:23 PM
3-0 -- walk. This game will soon be over.

The Operator
04-17-2011, 01:24 PM
4-0 on the sac fly.

This really is ludicrous.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 01:24 PM
He's the consummate thrower. Doesn't have any clue where the ball is going.

He does throw some strikes to be fair...but watch the glove even on the strikes...they're never where they're supposed to be.

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 01:24 PM
4-0. Yeah. He's the best

757690
04-17-2011, 01:25 PM
Sorry, you can't pick and choose what innings count. He's our WORST starter in my book right now.

Bases loaded walk. 3-0 now.

Maybe, but in my book, he's our best starter going forward the rest of the season.

Kinks like this work themselves out over the course of a season.

RedsManRick
04-17-2011, 01:25 PM
He does throw some strikes to be fair...but watch the glove even on the strikes...they're never where they're supposed to be.

That's my point. He's not showing any command whatsoever.

OldRightHander
04-17-2011, 01:25 PM
Let's hope the bats show up again.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 01:25 PM
He used every inch of the park to get out #2 as Stubby halls it in at the wall. Whew!
Come oooonn second inning. :pray:

The Operator
04-17-2011, 01:26 PM
Finally.

Redsfan320
04-17-2011, 01:26 PM
Easy solution for Volq... have Maloney pitch the 1st while EV makes the bullpen catcher work... then bring EV in for the 2nd on. ;)

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WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 01:27 PM
But he got 2 K's which seems to be the most important thing. "he missed some bats"
Ha! He found a bunch of them too :).

RedsManRick
04-17-2011, 01:27 PM
Against Karstens it looks like he just relaxed and pounded the zone; wasn't trying to paint the corners. With his movement, I'd just have him try to throw it right down the middle....

NJReds
04-17-2011, 01:28 PM
I'm not sure how the Reds can continue to throw this guy out there, but I'm not sure what the Reds options are with him. The Yankees DL'd Hughes with 'tired arm' ... but Volquez it's seems more of mental issue. He's got good velocity.

RedsManRick
04-17-2011, 01:28 PM
Don't suppose we can DL Voqluez when Cueto/Bailey are ready.

Redsfan320
04-17-2011, 01:28 PM
I'm not sure how the Reds can continue to throw this guy out there, but I'm not sure what the Reds options are with him. The Yankees DL'd Hughes with 'tired arm' ... but Volquez it's seems more of mental issue. He's got good velocity.

"Tired head."

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WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 01:28 PM
Everyone makes excuses for him, it seems. If you changed the name on the jersey to Harang or Milton and there would be unruly behavior and gnasing of teeth.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 01:30 PM
Easy solution for Volq... have Maloney pitch the 1st while EV makes the bullpen catcher work... then bring EV in for the 2nd on. ;)

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Seriously, I'd make him pitch a simulated first inning in the 'pen or something. I'd use some drastic measures...just tell him he'll always pitch that simulated inning until he gets it right. Make him throw about 30 more pitches after he says he's ready...because apparently, he ain't ready. :rant2:

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 01:30 PM
Don't suppose we can DL Voqluez when Cueto/Bailey are ready.

Well, I'm still of the opinion that Volquez and Leake should be the two to go down when they're both ready. LeCure has been filling in nicely. Leake looked better "somewhat" yesterday but I don't like the idea of putting him in the pen. He needs reps and work (same as Edinson). Both can get it at Louisville without costing the Reds wins. If the shine wears off LeCure, then bring one of them back up (whom ever is showing more control).

OldRightHander
04-17-2011, 01:31 PM
Everyone makes excuses for him, it seems. If you changed the name on the jersey to Harang or Milton and there would be unruly behavior and gnasing of teeth.

Josh Hamilton might have something to do with that.

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 01:31 PM
Josh Hamilton might have something to do with that.:)

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 01:32 PM
Against Karstens it looks like he just relaxed and pounded the zone; wasn't trying to paint the corners. With his movement, I'd just have him try to throw it right down the middle....
It looks like that's what he did for the first 2 batters today...4 pitches, 2 homers.:dunno:

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 01:32 PM
Seriously, I'd make him pitch a simulated first inning in the 'pen or something. I'd use some drastic measures...just tell him he'll always pitch that simulated inning until he gets it right. Make him throw about 30 more pitches after he says he's ready...because apparently, he ain't ready. :rant2:

But that'll just make him be able to go 4 innings instead of 5.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 01:33 PM
Volquez is out of options...he cannot go down unless he's injured and then he gets 20 days to rehab.

RedsManRick
04-17-2011, 01:34 PM
THis ump has a ridiculously small zone vertically. Voqluez got squeezed at the top of the zone, Karstens at the bottom.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 01:34 PM
But that'll just make him be able to go 4 innings instead of 5.
As long as they are 4 GOOD innings, so be it. :laugh:

RedsManRick
04-17-2011, 01:35 PM
It looks like that's what he did for the first 2 batters today...4 pitches, 2 homers.:dunno:

No, that was because he was trying to throw it at the corners and it ended up down the middle. Have him try to throw it down the middle and he'll pain the corners. ;)

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 01:35 PM
As long as they are 4 GOOD innings, so be it. :laugh:

That might be wishful thinking at this point.

Votto with the walk. 2 down, Rolen up.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 01:36 PM
Rolen POUNDED that one....but Karstens knocks it down and tosses over to end the inning.

OldRightHander
04-17-2011, 01:36 PM
Bad luck hitting the pitcher's leg.

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 01:36 PM
From what Kelch said, looks like it might be Francisco who goes down. More serious than thought? Typical.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 01:38 PM
Put your seatbelts on.... back to the top of the order.

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 01:38 PM
Patience. Or so I'm told.

The Operator
04-17-2011, 01:40 PM
Basehit. 1 on, none out.

GAC
04-17-2011, 01:40 PM
What in the heck is it with EV and the 1st inning? Geez!

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 01:40 PM
I agree with Brantley (as hard as that is to say *grin*). These pirate batters look TOO comfortable...brush 'em back. Sit them on their butts.

CTA513
04-17-2011, 01:41 PM
Volquez has replaced Harang as the guy who gives up a bunch of runs early.

The Operator
04-17-2011, 01:41 PM
43 pitches already for EV. Yikes.

GAC
04-17-2011, 01:42 PM
43 pitches already for EV. Yikes.

And the problem is? LOL

Typical for him any more

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 01:42 PM
Man, that looked SOOOO dangerous. That bat went FLYIN'

Playadlc
04-17-2011, 01:43 PM
Volquez goes from throwing 97-99 his last start in San Diego to 91-93 here today.

I don't get it.

Gallen5862
04-17-2011, 01:44 PM
Thanks for the PBP.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 01:44 PM
8th sb of the year for Tabata.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 01:45 PM
8th sb of the year for Tabata.
Ramon almost threw that one away...Janish leaped to catch it and saved a base.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 01:46 PM
BB

The Operator
04-17-2011, 01:46 PM
Ball four to Overbay. 2 on, 1 out.

Ridiculous.

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 01:46 PM
With 51 pitches, he may not make it three innings. Another walk. One out, two on.

redhawkfish
04-17-2011, 01:46 PM
His mechanics look terrible!

KYRedsFan
04-17-2011, 01:47 PM
this is just stupid.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 01:47 PM
Foul. Close to a dinger.

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 01:47 PM
That was close...

edabbs44
04-17-2011, 01:47 PM
I could have sworn that the 1st inning was over.

The Operator
04-17-2011, 01:48 PM
DP. Thank God.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 01:49 PM
4-6-3 Dp. Yessirree!

No runs allowed, so I guess that means he pitched well that inning.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 01:49 PM
Pitchers best friend ends the inning! :thumbup:

Redsfan320
04-17-2011, 01:50 PM
Ramon almost threw that one away...Janish leaped to catch it and saved a base.

Ramon's done that a lot this year. He's looked pretty awful throwing runners out. Speaking of which, anyone know of Mes/Grandal's prowess in this department?

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JaxRed
04-17-2011, 01:50 PM
No excuse in this case playing short-handed by 2 guys. Louisville is less than 2 hours away. Tell Francisco that they will DL him or send him on an option to AAA. His choice. And then bring up Frazier or Valaika

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 01:51 PM
I'm guessing we'll get some runs back this inning, Gomes and Ramon are both smokin' and Bruce seems to be really close. :clap:

The Operator
04-17-2011, 01:51 PM
GOMES! 4-1

KYRedsFan
04-17-2011, 01:52 PM
yessss

OldRightHander
04-17-2011, 01:52 PM
Jonny does it again.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 01:52 PM
Woohoo! He's still hot! Muahahahahahahahaha! :lol:

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 01:52 PM
:jump: GOMES! #6!

membengal
04-17-2011, 01:53 PM
Sadly, every time Gomes hits a HR or draws a BB, jojo stabs a puppy.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 01:54 PM
Jay k's looking. He was obviously looking for something else.

Screwball
04-17-2011, 01:54 PM
Sadly, every time Gomes hits a HR or draws a BB, jojo stabs a puppy.

:laugh:

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 01:54 PM
Sadly, every time Gomes hits a HR or draws a BB, jojo stabs a puppy.

ROFLMAO!!! I just had some milk shoot out my nose. Damn you Mem. That hurts! :O)

Reds/Flyers Fan
04-17-2011, 01:55 PM
I said EV was not a big league pitcher right now after his first inning debacle in San Diego and I stand by that claim. His string of outs from the second through sixth innings against the punch-and-judy Padres in Grand Canyon Petco Park isn't anything that any AAA pitcher wouldn't be able to do.

And it's not like he's been getting battered around by the Yankees and Phillies (although that happened last year), he's getting blitzed by the woeful Astros, Padres and Pirates.

EV certainly has the physical tools to be a big league pitcher but I don't thing he has the mental capacity to be one. This is the same guy the Texas Rangers slapped with all sorts of rules and regulations aimed at his lousy attitude - including one rule which required him to get from the mound back to the dugout after innings in less than 15 seconds.

Really, what good is a starting pitcher who throws pitch No. 55 in the second inning?

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 01:55 PM
Ramon flies out to right. 2 down.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 01:56 PM
Nice play there by Alvarez. Janish gets robbed.

I've read/seen enough of Alvarez to be impressed with his bat...his glove is surprising me.

Screwball
04-17-2011, 01:57 PM
Nice play there by Alvarez. Janish gets robbed.

He's made a few impressive plays over there this series. I was under the impression he was all bat and no glove.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:00 PM
I said EV was not a big league pitcher right now after his first inning debacle in San Diego and I stand by that claim. His string of outs from the second through sixth innings against the punch-and-judy Padres in Grand Canyon Petco Park isn't anything that any AAA pitcher wouldn't be able to do.

And it's not like he's been getting battered around by the Yankees and Phillies (although that happened last year), he's getting blitzed by the woeful Astros, Padres and Pirates.

EV certainly has the physical tools to be a big league pitcher but I don't thing he has the mental capacity to be one. This is the same guy the Texas Rangers slapped with all sorts of rules and regulations aimed at his lousy attitude - including one rule which required him to get from the mound back to the dugout after innings in less than 15 seconds.

Really, what good is a starting pitcher who throws pitch No. 55 in the second inning?

I'm not sure I agree with the "mental capacity" portion of this, but everything else is spot on in my book. I'm sure somebody will say that he's still too close to his Tommy John surgery for him to be back to full-strength. But MY problem with that argument is quite simple. If he's not fully back....get his butt out of our rotation. The bigs is NOT where you get your strength back, or your timing back, or your control back. Especially now when we've got other VERY VIABLE options available.

Once he's "right", then let's see what we've got.

kbrake
04-17-2011, 02:00 PM
I said EV was not a big league pitcher right now after his first inning debacle in San Diego and I stand by that claim. His string of outs from the second through sixth innings against the punch-and-judy Padres in Grand Canyon Petco Park isn't anything that any AAA pitcher wouldn't be able to do.

And it's not like he's been getting battered around by the Yankees and Phillies (although that happened last year), he's getting blitzed by the woeful Astros, Padres and Pirates.

EV certainly has the physical tools to be a big league pitcher but I don't thing he has the mental capacity to be one. This is the same guy the Texas Rangers slapped with all sorts of rules and regulations aimed at his lousy attitude - including one rule which required him to get from the mound back to the dugout after innings in less than 15 seconds.

Really, what good is a starting pitcher who throws pitch No. 55 in the second inning?

Have you heard any claims about his attitude being an issue while he's been in Cincinnati? Any complaints at all about him from other players or coaches?

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:00 PM
Alvarez grounds out to Cairo.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:02 PM
Have you heard any claims about his attitude being an issue while he's been in Cincinnati? Any complaints at all about him from other players or coaches?

I sure haven't. But that doesn't change the fact that he's had those problems in the past. But my concern is his PERFORMANCE.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:02 PM
Jones follows suit. Ground out to Cairo.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:03 PM
1-2-3 for Volquez after the K

Maybe he's settling in now. (still doesn't change the fact that we can't spot teams 2, 3 & 4 run leads in the first)

The Operator
04-17-2011, 02:03 PM
1-2-3 in the 3rd for EV.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:09 PM
Stubbs flew out to center.

Cairo follows that up with a single to left.

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 02:11 PM
Offense missing today...

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:11 PM
Votto K's swinging to end the inning. (I missed Edinson's K to start the inning)

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:11 PM
Offense missing today...

Don't tell that to the guy with the Mo-Walk.

Reds/Flyers Fan
04-17-2011, 02:13 PM
Have you heard any claims about his attitude being an issue while he's been in Cincinnati? Any complaints at all about him from other players or coaches?

Does the suspension for using PEDs count? Because that would be a fairly large red flag in my book.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:13 PM
Cedeno with a ground out to Rolen to start the 4th.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:14 PM
Karstens grounds out to Janish. Quickly 2 down.

kbrake
04-17-2011, 02:16 PM
Does the suspension for using PEDs count? Because that would be a fairly large red flag in my book.

Don't see what that has to do with attitude. The guy has struggled this season without question. Not real sure what it has to do with his attitude though.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:16 PM
6 in a row sat down by Volquez, and then a 4 pitch walk to McCutchen.

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 02:17 PM
McCutheon gets another walk. Chris says it's a mental breakdown. I think that's the crux of the problem.

Strikes Out Looking
04-17-2011, 02:17 PM
Have the Reds had Volquez consult a sports psychologist? I think this would probably help.

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 02:17 PM
80 pitches for Volquez through four innings.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:17 PM
Don't see what that has to do with attitude. The guy has struggled this season without question. Not real sure what it has to do with his attitude though.

Personally, I'm not seeing what his attitude has to do with much of anything. Considering how he's throwing, his attitude SHOULD be rather crappy. If it's not, he should have his head examined. I know that I'd be pissed if I was doing this poorly.

JaxRed
04-17-2011, 02:18 PM
Personally, I'm not seeing what his attitude has to do with much of anything. Considering how he's throwing, his attitude SHOULD be rather crappy. If it's not, he should have his head examined.

I know my attitude is crappy when he pitches

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:18 PM
McCutchen caught stealing. He slid off the bag and got him. He beat the throw though.

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 02:19 PM
I know my attitude is crappy when he pitches:)

kbrake
04-17-2011, 02:19 PM
Personally, I'm not seeing what his attitude has to do with much of anything. Considering how he's throwing, his attitude SHOULD be rather crappy. If it's not, he should have his head examined.

I'm sure he's more frustrated than anyone here. Just don't see this as an attitude issue. Hope they get it resolved before he takes the mound Friday night in St. Louis.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:20 PM
Does that count as a 1-2-3 inning? He did end up getting those 3 guys out. :O)

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:20 PM
I'm sure he's more frustrated than anyone here. Just don't see this as an attitude issue. Hope they get it resolved before he takes the mound Friday night in St. Louis.

Agreed.

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 02:21 PM
Does that count as a 1-2-3 inning? He did end up getting those 3 guys out. :O)Don't encourage the "cult" ;)

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:22 PM
I don't remember Karstens being this quick of a worker. I wonder if that's a reason he's doing much better this season.

Rolen K's looking to start the inning.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:24 PM
3 K's in a row now for Karstens after Gomes sits down.

Bruce with a single off the glove of Walker

757690
04-17-2011, 02:25 PM
So what's the difference between a pitcher who gives up 4 in the first, then shuts the other team down for the next 6 innings, and a pitcher who gives up a run in the 3rd, a run in the 5th and 2 in the seventh?

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 02:26 PM
So what's the difference between a pitcher who gives up 4 in the first, then shuts the other team down for the next 6 innings, and a pitcher who gives up a run in the 3rd, a run in the 5th and 2 in the seventh?Probably because it's tougher to come from behind. It demoralizes the fans and the players?

There is a problem here and the Reds need to find out what it is.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:26 PM
So what's the difference between a pitcher who gives up 4 in the first, then shuts the other team down for the next 6 innings, and a pitcher who gives up a run in the 3rd, a run in the 5th and 2 in the seventh?

Well, firstly we don't know that he's going to "shut them down" the rest of the way. Secondly, it demoralizes the offense & defense to get in such a hole early on. It also forces the pen into early action when it shouldn't.

Red in Chicago
04-17-2011, 02:27 PM
So what's the difference between a pitcher who gives up 4 in the first, then shuts the other team down for the next 6 innings, and a pitcher who gives up a run in the 3rd, a run in the 5th and 2 in the seventh?

More pressure on the offense from the start of the game?

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:27 PM
Razor singles to right. Bruce to 2nd.

Janish with a single to plate Jay. Janish to second on the error on McCutchen's bobble.

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 02:27 PM
Will Edinson bat?

LincolnparkRed
04-17-2011, 02:28 PM
So what's the difference between a pitcher who gives up 4 in the first, then shuts the other team down for the next 6 innings, and a pitcher who gives up a run in the 3rd, a run in the 5th and 2 in the seventh?


nothing really. As we reds fans know the early lead doesn't always hold up. ATL, COL, SF, & last week and Arizona all show that. It has to be easier mentally to play from ahead though

JaxRed
04-17-2011, 02:28 PM
Bad decision..... pinch hit here

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 02:29 PM
Down 2, runners on 2nd and 3rd, your pitcher has 80 pitches. Perfect place to pinch hit, but I guess we're not patient

NJReds
04-17-2011, 02:29 PM
Bad decision..... pinch hit here

I don't think the pen can take it. Even in a blowout yesterday, Leake only went six innings.

LincolnparkRed
04-17-2011, 02:30 PM
I don't think the pen can take it. Even in a blowout yesterday, Leake only went six innings.


Maloney pitched 3 on Friday as well.

757690
04-17-2011, 02:31 PM
I usually don't pick on 3 base coaches, but why hold up Razor there? Two outs and the pitcher up. Odds are much better that the defense screws something up and he scores, than Volquez gets a hit.

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 02:32 PM
I usually don't pick on 3 base coaches, but why hold up Razor there? Two outs and the pitcher up. Odds are much better that the defense screws something up and he scores, than Volquez gets a hit.Not as sloooow was Ramon is.

757690
04-17-2011, 02:33 PM
Probably because it's tougher to come from behind. It demoralizes the fans and the players?

There is a problem here and the Reds need to find out what it is.

I agree it's a problem, but it really hasn't kept the Reds from winning the games Volquez starts... yet.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:33 PM
Grady Sizemore was activated today. He hits a dinger. Nice.

Gallen5862
04-17-2011, 02:34 PM
Let's go Reds. Let's get a comeback win.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:34 PM
Janish's single has apparently fried Gameday. :O) Been stuck since.

Finally fixed.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:35 PM
Volquez with another 1-2-3 inning. He's like Jekyll & Hyde. Or Batman's villain Two Face.

757690
04-17-2011, 02:36 PM
Not as sloooow was Ramon is.

Volquez career batting line

.091 .100 .091 .191

50 K's in 99 AB's.

It takes a special talent to have an OPS below the Mendoza line lol

It just takes an offline throw, or a dropped ball to score a runner no matter how slow he is.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:37 PM
I was going to comment on how Janish's BA had finally dipped below .300 to .295. But it didn't last long. Single bumped it back over to .311.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:39 PM
Stubbs K's swinging. That's 6 K's for Karstens. He's looked VERY impressive IMO.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:39 PM
Cairo! :jump: GONE! 4-3 Pirates.

I should've commented on how Karstens' looked earlier. Now a single for Votto. :O)

Reds Fanatic
04-17-2011, 02:39 PM
Cairo homers to right!

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 02:40 PM
Miggy!! Bench power! :beerme:

OldRightHander
04-17-2011, 02:40 PM
4-3 now after that bomb.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 02:40 PM
Votto rips a hole in the webbing of Walkers glove on the first pitch. Wow! :eek:

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:41 PM
McCutchen warming up for the Buccos

GAC
04-17-2011, 02:41 PM
chat is open for the Red's rally! :beerme:

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:43 PM
Rolen with a shot down the line for a double. Votto scores! Tie ball game!

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 02:43 PM
tie game on Rolen's double

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:44 PM
Absolute BULLETS hit off Karstens since the Stubbs strikeout.

OldRightHander
04-17-2011, 02:44 PM
All tied up on the double. Nice.

kbrake
04-17-2011, 02:44 PM
Offense missing today...

Good thing they play more than 3 innings....

reds44
04-17-2011, 02:45 PM
Good thing they play more than 3 innings....
Good thing they allow pitchers to pitch more than one inning too...

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 02:45 PM
When the ball comes off Votto and Rolen's bats it almost doesn't matter if there's a fielder there...it might go right through them. When they hit the ball, it stays hit! :laugh:

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 02:46 PM
When the ball comes off Votto and Rolen's bats it almost doesn't matter if there's a fielder there...it might go right through them. When they hit the ball, it stays hit! :laugh:Scotty's been hitting the ball hard. It's a wonder Karstans still has a leg after that early shot that hit him

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:47 PM
Homer Bailey. 1 hit, 1 bb, 2 k's. 2.2 innings thus far.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:47 PM
Daniel McCutchen on the bump. Gomes pops out for the 2nd out.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 02:47 PM
Dang! How old IS Karstens? That dude's face looks like a catchers mitt. :scared:

OldRightHander
04-17-2011, 02:48 PM
Sooner or later Bruce is going to run into one.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:48 PM
Bruce with a single to right! 5-4 Reds!

Reds Fanatic
04-17-2011, 02:49 PM
5-4 Reds as Bruce drives in a run

OldRightHander
04-17-2011, 02:49 PM
Bruce with the RBI single. I'll take that.

NJReds
04-17-2011, 02:49 PM
I thought they'd pitch around Bruce. Glad they didn't!

reds44
04-17-2011, 02:49 PM
Hey look Volquez is in line for the W.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 02:50 PM
Bruce with the RBI single. I'll take that.Yup. He hit what was given to him...that's when he's at his best. He's coming on now. :clap:

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:51 PM
Hey look Volquez is in line for the W.

He's gotten run support of like 25-30 runs in 4 games. That's not exactly a stat that shows how well Edinson's pitched. He could be the worst 3-0 pitcher in the league up to this point.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 02:52 PM
Hey look Volquez is in line for the W.You've gotta give the guy some credit for battling through his early messes every single time out. He keeps plugging away, but it's gotta suck to be him in the first inning. :(

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:53 PM
You've gotta give the guy some credit for battling through his early messes every single time out. He keeps plugging away, but it's gotta suck to be him in the first inning. :(

Absolutely. He certainly deserves credit for settling down and throwing better. But at the end of the day, he's still allowed at least 4 runs and walked a near half dozen.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:54 PM
Alvarez K's swinging for out #1. K#5 for Volkie.

reds44
04-17-2011, 02:54 PM
He's gotten run support of like 25-30 runs in 4 games. That's not exactly a stat that shows how well Edinson's pitched. He could be the worst 3-0 pitcher in the league up to this point.
If you want to give up on a guy based on one inning, when his team is 3-0 in his starts and has a lead right now, have fun with that.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:56 PM
If you want to give up on a guy based on one inning, when his team is 3-0 in his starts and has a lead right now, have fun with that.

I've never wanted to give up on Volquez. Far from it. But isn't it rather obvious that he's not quite right? Should he be with the Reds in a position to work out his kinks?

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:56 PM
5-5 game after the Dinger from Jones.

KoryMac5
04-17-2011, 02:56 PM
I don't think anyone wants to give up on EV but his first inning hiccups do lead folks to have some concern. I would imagine that Pryce will be looking at some film over the next few days.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 02:57 PM
Absolutely. He certainly deserves credit for settling down and throwing better. But at the end of the day, he's still allowed at least 4 runs and walked a near half dozen.
It reminds me of Homer Bailey in 2009. Every game he'd pitch like a #1 starter except for one inning where he'd give up the game. With Bailey it was never the same inning and he didn't have the offense (or defense) that this team has. Volquez is very lucky...on any other team he'd be 0-3.

reds44
04-17-2011, 02:57 PM
I've never wanted to give up on Volquez. Far from it. But isn't it rather obvious that he's not quite right? Should he be with the Reds in a position to work out his kinks?
Why shouldn't he be? They're winning games with him pitching.

OldRightHander
04-17-2011, 02:57 PM
I thought Gomes was going to catch that one easily.

NJReds
04-17-2011, 02:58 PM
I thought Gomes was going to catch that one easily.

Same here. It just kept carrying.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:58 PM
Why shouldn't he be? They're winning games with him pitching.


No, they're winning the games IN SPITE of him pitching. I could easily expect to get 5 or 6 innings of 4-5 runs allowed from just about any #5 starter.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 02:59 PM
K#6. 106 pitches. Definitely should be his last inning.

reds44
04-17-2011, 02:59 PM
No, they're winning the games IN SPITE of him pitching. I could easily expect to get 5 or 6 innings of 4-5 runs allowed from just about any #5 starter.
What's your point? What's the urge to make a change if they're winning games? Best place to work through your struggles is up here. If he starts costing the Reds games, then you think about if a change needs to be made.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:02 PM
What's your point? What's the urge to make a change if they're winning games? Best place to work through your struggles is up here. If he starts costing the Reds games, then you think about if a change needs to be made.

Because you can't count on the offense putting up 5-10 runs a game. If you wait until he DOES start costing us games...it will have already cost us games. He's got a problem, fix it in a place where it's got NO CHANCE of hurting the club.

And IMO, the WORST place to work through your struggles is up here. If you've got no better options...I might buy that partially...but it's simply not the case. We've got pitchers who can give us what he's giving us.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 03:02 PM
Is he double switching Hanigan into the game? or an outfielder?

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:03 PM
Cedeno walks and Dusty channels his inner-captain hook.

Smith in. Hanigan in as well.

757690
04-17-2011, 03:04 PM
Well, firstly we don't know that he's going to "shut them down" the rest of the way. Secondly, it demoralizes the offense & defense to get in such a hole early on. It also forces the pen into early action when it shouldn't.

Actually, it's a hypothetical, so we do know lol

And a team that gets demoralized after a bad first inning ain't going to the playoffs anyway.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 03:05 PM
And IMO, the WORST place to work through your struggles is up here. If you've got no better options...I might buy that partially...but it's simply not the case. We've got pitchers who can give us what he's giving us.

I agree with this, but where does he work it out? He's out of options. They don't give you 2 years to rehab from TJ surgery. :dunno:

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:05 PM
Double over Stubbs head. Cedeno scores. 6-5 Pirates.

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 03:05 PM
Guess Volkkie won't be getting the W after all. Wow what a shot for a double.

VR
04-17-2011, 03:06 PM
Guess Volkkie won't be getting the W after all. Wow what a shot for a double.

I was stunned that he was pulled in that situation.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:06 PM
I agree with this, but where does he work it out? He's out of options. They don't give you 2 years to rehab from TJ surgery. :dunno:

Long man in the bull pen? DL stint?

And are you sure he's out of options? Fay posted the list a while back and I don't recall his name being on there.

*heads off to double check*

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 03:07 PM
Smith doesn't have it today. This could get ugly.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 03:08 PM
And are you sure he's out of options?


Pretty sure...that was why the Rangers traded him IIRC. They couldn't send him down.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:10 PM
Smith looking off. Double and a walk.

*WHEW* Big K there.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:13 PM
Jose Veras pitching.

Janish, Hanigan, Stubbs due to score.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:13 PM
Paul files out to Jones.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:15 PM
From Fay back during spring training. It's Fay, so it COULD be wrong....

Options always play a huge role in who makes the team. If a player is out of options, the Reds must expose him to waivers to send him to the minor leagues.

The Reds have nine players out of options: Bronson Arroyo, Homer Bailey, Bill Bray, Miguel Cairo, Francisco Cordero, Jonny Gomes, Fred Lewis, Nick Masset and Brandon Phillips.

Bailey, Bray and Lewis are at least nominally competing for jobs. Their option status will come into play on the final decision.


Edinson not listed, so take that for what it's worth. If he DOES have an option left...might be a good time to use it.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:17 PM
Hanigan singles off the glove of Overbay. I'll take it.

Ruled an error.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:19 PM
Stubbs shoots one off the glove of Jones. Crushed!

GOYA
04-17-2011, 03:19 PM
Homer today:

5 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 2 K

62 pitches, 40 for strikes

He looked very good

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:20 PM
Homer today:

5 IP, 2 H, 0 R, 1 BB, 2 K

62 pitches, 40 for strikes

He looked very good

Excellent news. He and Johnny can't get back here soon enough.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 03:22 PM
Stubbs shoots one off the glove of Jones. Crushed!
Jones with a nice effort on that one, he almost nabbed it. I thought it was funny when they showed a shot of him afterward though, as he looked at his glove and flapped it open and closed a few times like somehow it failed him. :laugh: I used to do EXACTLY the same thing in little league when one bounced off my glove. :D

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:22 PM
Central update:

Brewers trail the Nats 4-2 in the 6th (game 1 of DH)
Houston up 4-3 on SD in the 5th
Cubs up 1-0 early on the Rocks (1st)
Cards & Dodgers getting underway.

Side note...I miss doubleheaders. They used to be fairly common...now they're a rarity. A real shame IMO

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:23 PM
Miggy takes one for the team. HBP

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:23 PM
Bases jacked, 1 out....Vottomatic steps to the dish.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 03:23 PM
Miggy takes one for the team. HBP

Yea, the slo-mo shows him leaning into that one. :laugh:

OldRightHander
04-17-2011, 03:24 PM
I like the odds of scoring here.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:25 PM
I like the odds of scoring here.

This would be a nice time for Heather to make an appearance.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:25 PM
Damn! K swinging.

Gotta give Veras credit. Took it to him.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:27 PM
*sigh* Rolen hits to 2nd...bobbled...but he recovers to get Rolen. Bases loaded with 1 out...no runs. That hurts.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 03:27 PM
Damn! K swinging.

Gotta give Veras credit. Took it to him.
Yea, Joey ju-u-ust missed that one. It took big kahunas, because if he hit it, it was gone. Nice pitch.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:28 PM
Bray taking over for Smith.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:29 PM
1 pitch, 1 down. Line out to Bruce. Overbay sits his butt down.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:30 PM
Single to center for walker. Off the end of the bat.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:31 PM
Brewers now down 7-2

YESSIRREE! 4-6-3 dp to end the inning.

LincolnparkRed
04-17-2011, 03:33 PM
Reds need some runs. Good thing it is Gomes, Bruce and Pinch hitter? (Heisey)

Heisey with a homer (heard it here first)

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:34 PM
Veras back out for his 2nd inning of work

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:35 PM
Cubs now down 4-1. Rockies are on freaking FIRE.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:37 PM
Gomes K's swinging.

I hate how excited Brantley gets when it's OUR hitters who strikeout.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:38 PM
:jump: GONE! BRUUUUUUUUUUUCE! Tie ballgame!

I can't put into words how much I miss typing all those U's. :O)

GAC
04-17-2011, 03:38 PM
Bruuuuuuuuce!

reds44
04-17-2011, 03:39 PM
Bruuuuuuuuuuuuce

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 03:39 PM
Jay Bruce! Sweeeet! Tie Ball game! :jump::luvu:

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:39 PM
Heisey pinch hitting for Bray.

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 03:40 PM
Volquez off the hook.

Quite a shot

LvJ
04-17-2011, 03:40 PM
POST NUMBER 7000 IN HONOR OF JAAAY BRUCE!

Yeah!!

Wait.. I'm stuck at 6999?

OldRightHander
04-17-2011, 03:40 PM
Sooner or later Bruce is going to run into one.

Told ya.

LincolnparkRed
04-17-2011, 03:40 PM
who pitches the eigth?

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:41 PM
Chris takes the walk. 1 down, 1 on, 1 in, Janish up.

LincolnparkRed
04-17-2011, 03:41 PM
POST NUMBER 7000 IN HONOR OF JAAAY BRUCE!

Yeah!!

Wait.. I'm stuck at 6999?

gamethreads don't count as posts

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:41 PM
who pitches the eigth?

Nick. I think they still want to give Chapman some more time.

reds44
04-17-2011, 03:41 PM
gamethreads don't count as posts
I miss the days when they did lol

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 03:41 PM
POST NUMBER 7000 IN HONOR OF JAAAY BRUCE!

Yeah!!

Wait.. I'm stuck at 6999?
Game thread posts don't count... Still, Congrats ahead of time! :beerme:

LvJ
04-17-2011, 03:42 PM
gamethreads don't count as posts Oh, right on! I can dig that.

Well high five Jay Bruce anyways! :beerme:

LincolnparkRed
04-17-2011, 03:42 PM
Chris takes the walk. 1 down, 1 on, 1 in, Janish up.

The Heisey homer was off by a batter. Take the walk and the tie anyhow.

WVRedsFan
04-17-2011, 03:42 PM
Nick. I think they still want to give Chapman some more time.Ugh. Better get a few more runs

GAC
04-17-2011, 03:43 PM
Heisey can steal on this guy

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:44 PM
Ugh. Better get a few more runs

that was just a guess on my part. No real clue who goes in.

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:45 PM
Wild pitch. Hi-C to second. Great jump.

GAC
04-17-2011, 03:45 PM
Heisey can steal on this guy

Told ya. :D

_Sir_Charles_
04-17-2011, 03:46 PM
Darn. Janish looked bad in that ab. K's swinging. First really BAD ab I've seen from him in a while.

OldRightHander
04-17-2011, 03:46 PM
Nasty slider there.

WebScorpion
04-17-2011, 03:47 PM
Darn. Janish looked bad in that ab. K's swinging. First really BAD ab I've seen from him in a while.
He and Gomes both have looked good this year, but Veras' slider really fooled them. That thing has got some movement today.