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traderumor
02-22-2012, 04:47 PM
What a great win. No idea who can beat this team

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using TapatalkThat will make it really disappointing when it happens in the tournament then ;):D

WMR
02-22-2012, 05:33 PM
I refuse to get cocky over this team... I THINK they can win it all, but it just takes one sub-par night and it's all she wrote.

jmac
02-22-2012, 08:58 PM
I refuse to get cocky over this team... I THINK they can win it all, but it just takes one sub-par night and it's all she wrote.

Bingo. I will say this, even if they dont win it all, I doubt Cal will ever have another group as enjoyable to watch as this bunch. All good guys who dont care who scores or like last night who plays (Teague) as long as they win. :thumbup:

jmac
02-22-2012, 09:08 PM
Darius Miller playing like a senior, he hit some huge buckets late in the 2nd half.
Very true ! Miller has been there for all of Cal's 3 UK teams and his leadership will be missed.

cincrazy
02-22-2012, 09:22 PM
I refuse to get cocky over this team... I THINK they can win it all, but it just takes one sub-par night and it's all she wrote.

I understand your fears, but let me tell you man, from an objective point of view, I can't see ANYONE beating UK this year. OSU would struggle to score 50 points against them, UNC is too inconsistent, Duke too perimeter-oriented, Syracuse not good enough from the perimeter, Mizzou too small. Kentucky is loaded everywhere. They've got a great coach, the best player in college basketball, veteran leadership, and studs up and down the roster.

dabvu2498
02-22-2012, 10:46 PM
I still think the way to beat em is to wall up the basket and defend the paint like crazy. Probably with a zone. This at least gives you a chance at containing Davis and K-G. I would be more worried about those two guys getting lose in the paint than Miller, Lamb or Teague lighting you up from outside, especially in one of the big domes that double as NCAA tourney venues these days.

Miss State had a pretty good plan last night, but couldn't maintain their own shooting. Plus, UK decided to start guarding.

WVRed
02-22-2012, 11:39 PM
Bingo. I will say this, even if they dont win it all, I doubt Cal will ever have another group as enjoyable to watch as this bunch. All good guys who dont care who scores or like last night who plays (Teague) as long as they win. :thumbup:

If Cal doesn't win it all with this group, I think UK fans and the national media will begin to question if he can ever get it done. Two years ago had that potential, but Cal took a team that was in the NIT the year before all the way to the Elite Eight and the senior class of that team had played under two coaches. Last years team overachieved its way into the Final Four, plain and simple.

I actually enjoyed Cal's first team here with Wall-Cousins etc until I found out about all of the drama after the season. How Cal kept that team together and composed dealing with all of the egos he had is beyond me. Turn around the following year and bring in a young team with little to no character issues (Terrence Jones is the only one who strikes me as cocky on this team) and its pretty remarkable.


I understand your fears, but let me tell you man, from an objective point of view, I can't see ANYONE beating UK this year. OSU would struggle to score 50 points against them, UNC is too inconsistent, Duke too perimeter-oriented, Syracuse not good enough from the perimeter, Mizzou too small. Kentucky is loaded everywhere. They've got a great coach, the best player in college basketball, veteran leadership, and studs up and down the roster.

All it takes is an Ali Farokmanesh in the second round or Sweet 16. Or a VCU or Butler matched up somewhere.

If I had to pick a team that worries me, it would be Syracuse. They would give Kentucky the best zone matchup they will have faced all season, and poses a problem with depth. Kentucky really only runs about 7 deep and Syracuse can sub at will, meaning fresher legs. UConn did this last season in Maui and the NCAA tournament and toward the end of the game Kentucky was winded.

All in all, outside of other teams, the only way I see Kentucky losing is by beating themselves. This is a young team and cockiness could be an issue. That is why I would like to see either 1. Kentucky lose a game between now and the NCAA tournament or 2. Kentucky run the table, win the SEC tournament, but have Syracuse edge them for the no 1 overall seed. That way UK can go in with a chip on their shoulder and something to prove.

New York Red
02-22-2012, 11:47 PM
Doug Shows has to lead the country in technicals called. It seems like every game I see of his, he's T'ing somebody up. Is this a referee statistic that the NCAA tracks?

WVRed
02-22-2012, 11:53 PM
Doug Shows has to lead the country in technicals called. It seems like every game I see of his, he's T'ing somebody up. Is this a referee statistic that the NCAA tracks?

http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/doug-shows

http://statsheet.com/mcb/referees/ted-valentine

I think buckeye fans might have a legitimate gripe. If you have time to play around on that site it gets pretty interesting. Kentucky makes the list for top 3 teams to receive fouls by Doug Shows.

The Operator
02-23-2012, 12:35 AM
I've noticed a tendency the last few years especially for college BB refs to really get into the excitement of the game with all kinds of emphatic signaling, etc.

I really hate refs who like to be noticed. Just do your job.

RiverRat13
02-23-2012, 07:59 AM
If Cal doesn't win it all with this group, I think UK fans and the national media will begin to question if he can ever get it done.

I've been saying that since December :thumbup:

I think they win it, though.

durl
02-23-2012, 10:46 AM
I refuse to get cocky over this team... I THINK they can win it all, but it just takes one sub-par night and it's all she wrote.

I feel the same way. This team has incredible talent and a great chemistry. Cal seems to make all the right adjustments. But even the best teams have down nights...and that can happen during tournament time.

What encourages me is that this team keeps its composure no matter what; pretty amazing for such a young group of guys. The fall behind but they don't give up. They go into hostile environments and do their jobs.

Even with all that, I'm concerned with where the NCAA puts them in the bracket. I have a feeling they'll get one of the toughest.

dabvu2498
02-23-2012, 12:02 PM
I feel the same way. This team has incredible talent and a great chemistry. Cal seems to make all the right adjustments. But even the best teams have down nights...and that can happen during tournament time.

What encourages me is that this team keeps its composure no matter what; pretty amazing for such a young group of guys. The fall behind but they don't give up. They go into hostile environments and do their jobs.

Even with all that, I'm concerned with where the NCAA puts them in the bracket. I have a feeling they'll get one of the toughest.

I actually wouldn't be surprised if wvred is right and they get paired up with Duke in the same bracket and the rest of the bracket is weak in an attempt to set up that "rematch."

jmac
02-23-2012, 08:36 PM
Doug Shows has to lead the country in technicals called. It seems like every game I see of his, he's T'ing somebody up. Is this a referee statistic that the NCAA tracks?
I'm not sure which one gave the technical to Davis on his dunk but if they were doing the NY-Miami game, we would have seen around 10 technicals by now as far as dunks. BTW thought the call on Davis was a bad one as his momentum was going strong forward and he looked like he was just stabalizing himself imo.

George Foster
02-23-2012, 09:17 PM
I feel the same way. This team has incredible talent and a great chemistry. Cal seems to make all the right adjustments. But even the best teams have down nights...and that can happen during tournament time.

What encourages me is that this team keeps its composure no matter what; pretty amazing for such a young group of guys. The fall behind but they don't give up. They go into hostile environments and do their jobs.

Even with all that, I'm concerned with where the NCAA puts them in the bracket. I have a feeling they'll get one of the toughest.

Technically, if they are the #1 over all seed they should get the weakest bracket, but seeing how they screwed kentucky last year, I see them getting screwed again. They were ranked 8th in most polls going into the NCAA, and was the fourth 4th seed, which would of put them as the 16th overall seed in the tournament....brutal.

This one thing I know....Duke and North Carolina will play the first 2 rounds 20 miles from their campus. They always do.

How come Greensboro or Charlotte always gets NCAA games played their? Rupp Arena is a great facility, holds 24k, and in the central part of the US. When was the last time they held NCAA rounds? I know UK can't play NCAA games there but not having Rupp on a rotation is an outrage. They are always in North Carolina every single year....brutal.

dabvu2498
02-23-2012, 10:42 PM
Rupp Arena is a great facility, holds 24k, and in the central part of the US. When was the last time they held NCAA rounds?

2007. And they're getting them again next year.


2013 Second and Third Rounds
2007 First and Second Rounds
2002 South Regional Semi-finals and Final
1998 First and Second Rounds
1996 Southeast Regional Semi-finals and Final
1994 First and Second Rounds
1992 Southeast Regional Semi-finals and Final
1989 Southeast Regional Semi-finals and Final
1985 NCAA Final Four
1984 Mideast Regional Semi-finals and Final
1980 Mideast Regional Semi-finals and Final
1977 Mideast Regional Semi-finals and Final

WVRed
02-24-2012, 10:09 AM
I actually wouldn't be surprised if wvred is right and they get paired up with Duke in the same bracket and the rest of the bracket is weak in an attempt to set up that "rematch."

That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :)

I don't think UK will get a "weak" bracket, but if Duke loses to UNC and/or loses again in the ACC tournament, a Duke-UK matchup in Atlanta would be inevitable given the 20 year anniversary of the Laettner shot and the Friday-Sunday matchup. Add in the grudge match next year in the Champions Classic and its the perfect storyline.

I watched some of Duke against Florida State last night and that would be an intriguing matchup. Kentucky is extremely athletic and would give Duke problems in that area, but they would have to clamp down from three. I would put MKG on Austin Rivers and see if that creates problems in setting up Duke's offense. This might be the one game I would be in favor of showboating for the sake of listening to Dickie V. One of the FSU players pounded their chest last night and Vitale was up in arms.

That being said, after Kentucky and Syracuse (who may end up finishing with the no 1 overall seed over Kentucky even if UK doesn't lose again), its going to be next to impossible to predict the other two no 1 seeds. You have six teams from three conferences competing for two spots:

ACC: Duke, UNC
Big Ten: Ohio State, Michigan State
Big 12: Kansas, Missouri

5TimeWSChamps
02-24-2012, 05:31 PM
Syracuse doesnt worry me because odds are they wont be there.

Boeheim's gotten past the Sweet 16 4 times in 34 years....that is PATHETIC

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

Stray
02-25-2012, 02:22 PM
Anthony Davis is freaking unreal.

joshnky
02-25-2012, 03:00 PM
Technically, if they are the #1 over all seed they should get the weakest bracket, but seeing how they screwed kentucky last year, I see them getting screwed again. They were ranked 8th in most polls going into the NCAA, and was the fourth 4th seed, which would of put them as the 16th overall seed in the tournament....brutal.

This one thing I know....Duke and North Carolina will play the first 2 rounds 20 miles from their campus. They always do.

How come Greensboro or Charlotte always gets NCAA games played their? Rupp Arena is a great facility, holds 24k, and in the central part of the US. When was the last time they held NCAA rounds? I know UK can't play NCAA games there but not having Rupp on a rotation is an outrage. They are always in North Carolina every single year....brutal.

You're complaining about this this year when UK is a lock to play in Louisville and Lexington hosts next year(with no NC sites in 2013)? I don't know how often a site can have the tournament but it's safe to say that Louisville and Lexington will be on the rotation as often as possible. Unfortunately, North Carolina has more D1-pro gyms to host. On the other hand Indy and Nashville are close so you don't have too much to complain about.

joshnky
02-25-2012, 03:21 PM
This UK team reminds of the Rudy Gay-led UConn team a few years back. Loaded with pros and was much-hyped entering the tournament. I think that team was even similar defensively with several shot blockers down low.

As others have said, anything can happen in the tournament as George Mason shocked the world and started a crazy Cinderella run that Butler has continued.

jmac
02-25-2012, 09:12 PM
Nice win today. I thought Vandy was a team that could come into Rupp and win. Miller again came on strong in 2nd half. Lamb went thru a stretch where he just basically shot jumpers but the last few games, he has began driving and using the runner again which is good.
I earlier in year said Teague was one of the most over-rated "stars" I have seen but I was wrong. The guy has turned into an awesome point guard who I wouldnt mind seeing him return for another seaon.

traderumor
02-25-2012, 09:24 PM
Games are getting closer. There were some really smelly home cooking calls today, esp the overruled offensive foul. Vandy hung tough, wouldn't want to meet them early inthe tourney.

dabvu2498
02-25-2012, 10:21 PM
Games are getting closer. There were some really smelly home cooking calls today, esp the overruled offensive foul.

I thought they got the call right, though. Didn't like how it happened, however.

dabvu2498
02-25-2012, 10:30 PM
Davis really is something special. I can't really think of an equivalent type player in recent memory. He's not the only reason they're good, but he's the reason they're the best team in the country.

Kidd-Gilchrist says he's going to stay in school for 4 years and get a degree? I hope he sticks to it, even though it probably gives UK a better shot at beating my favorite team the next three years. I respect that kid and enjoy watching him play.

Really liked the quotes from both coaches after the game today too:

Coach Calipari:

"And let me say this: You see how good Vanderbilt is? Can you see how good they are? I mean, in the NCAA Tournament, they are going to advance. I mean, that is a ball team, and they shoot it; they make their free throws. They had seven turnovers, and we are a pretty good defensive team. They had seven turnovers. Are you kidding me? They are turning people over 15 times. We didn't press a whole lot but that's not how we play. They are good!"

Coach Stallings:

"Again, they’re better but we could have gotten them if we had played better but they are awfully good. I like their team just from an opposing coaching standpoint because they try to play the right way, they aren’t out there running their mouths or doing things that I think are uncalled for and unsportsmanlike. They just play the game, they play hard, they play for each other and I really respect that. We were hoping for a different outcome, unfortunately we didn’t get it.”


Cal is wrong about Vandy making free throws. Ohhhhhh free throws...

Tuff Nut
02-25-2012, 11:17 PM
You're complaining about this this year when UK is a lock to play in Louisville and Lexington hosts next year(with no NC sites in 2013)? I don't know how often a site can have the tournament but it's safe to say that Louisville and Lexington will be on the rotation as often as possible. Unfortunately, North Carolina has more D1-pro gyms to host. On the other hand Indy and Nashville are close so you don't have too much to complain about.
The problem with your arguement is that, UK cant play in Lexington, next year and is not a lock to play in Loserville this year.........BUT, on the other hand......either dUKe or UNC play their first 2 rounds in North Carolina, EVERY YEAR.

dabvu2498
02-26-2012, 01:07 AM
The problem with your arguement is that, UK cant play in Lexington, next year and is not a lock to play in Loserville this year.........BUT, on the other hand......either dUKe or UNC play their first 2 rounds in North Carolina, EVERY YEAR.

I'd say UK is a stone cold lock to play in either Louisville or Nashville this year. Maybe Columbus. Unfortunately for UK, they're never going to play NCAA games in Richmond, Bowling Green, or Morehead.

When UK has been a high seed in recent memory, the committee has done them fairly well... Nashville, Indy, Columbus, Atlanta. Yeah, it's not Greensboro or Charlotte, but such is geography.

traderumor
02-26-2012, 09:35 AM
I thought they got the call right, though. Didn't like how it happened, however.Well if the call was because the guy was in the restricted area, I'm pretty sure the rule isn't that you can never ever draw an offensive foul in that area. The offensive player jumped back into a set defensive player. I have not read the rule, just heard announcers interpret it, and that was not a "drawing a charge" situation. Of course, the overturn just made it look really, really fishy.

BTW, I think the restricted area is so much silliness. But that's a different discussion. Not only is it another burden on the refs in the toughest game to officiate, but its a silly rule in theory. If a guy gets set, he gets set.

dabvu2498
02-26-2012, 10:46 AM
BTW, I think the restricted area is so much silliness. But that's a different discussion. Not only is it another burden on the refs in the toughest game to officiate, but its a silly rule in theory. If a guy gets set, he gets set.

I kinda like it. Absent defensive three seconds like the NBA some teams would just park a weak side defender under the bucket with an almost guaranteed charge any time there was dribble penetration to the hoop.

WVRed
02-26-2012, 12:55 PM
I thought they got the call right, though. Didn't like how it happened, however.

It should have been called right the first time. I'm actually more shocked Stallings didn't get T'd up for his response that UK fans have been reporting.


Kidd-Gilchrist says he's going to stay in school for 4 years and get a degree? I hope he sticks to it, even though it probably gives UK a better shot at beating my favorite team the next three years. I respect that kid and enjoy watching him play.

I'd love to see it, but Cal isn't going to hold him back. If he's slated to be a top 5 pick, Cal won't try to extract another year or two out of him. DeMarcus Cousins made similar comments as well. It should speak volumes how much the players love playing here, but once they sit down and realize the best decision they can make is by leaving, its a whole different story.

traderumor
02-26-2012, 01:25 PM
I kinda like it. Absent defensive three seconds like the NBA some teams would just park a weak side defender under the bucket with an almost guaranteed charge any time there was dribble penetration to the hoop.Yet that strategy wasn't employed successfully all these years. The charge is called a player control foul for a reason. Rules committees gotta come up with something I guess.

dabvu2498
02-26-2012, 01:30 PM
Yet that strategy wasn't employed successfully all these years. The charge is called a player control foul for a reason. Rules committees gotta come up with something I guess.

Sure it was... *Duke*cough*Duke*Cough*

dabvu2498
02-26-2012, 01:31 PM
It should have been called right the first time. I'm actually more shocked Stallings didn't get T'd up for his response that UK fans have been reporting.



Figures... UK fans more worried about the opposing coach's response than the fact that the way it was handled was screwed up.

joshnky
02-26-2012, 06:38 PM
The problem with your arguement is that, UK cant play in Lexington, next year and is not a lock to play in Loserville this year.........BUT, on the other hand......either dUKe or UNC play their first 2 rounds in North Carolina, EVERY YEAR.

not next year, which was my point. UK fans have their best team in years and they still can't help complaining about what might happen. If you don't get Louisville feel free to complain then.

cumberlandreds
02-27-2012, 09:28 AM
Games are getting closer. There were some really smelly home cooking calls today, esp the overruled offensive foul. Vandy hung tough, wouldn't want to meet them early inthe tourney.

That was the correct overrule. The Vandy player was clearly within the semi-circle. If the refs hadn't screwed it up in the first place then there wouldn't have been any arguing at all over it. Vandy played a great game. I'll give them all the credit. They would have beaten nearly anyone else. They are good team and if they can get by their first round game in the NCAA's they could do a lot of damage. Winning that first game will be the key for them since they haven't done that in a while.

traderumor
02-27-2012, 09:46 AM
That was the correct overrule. The Vandy player was clearly within the semi-circle. If the refs hadn't screwed it up in the first place then there wouldn't have been any arguing at all over it. Vandy played a great game. I'll give them all the credit. They would have beaten nearly anyone else. They are good team and if they can get by their first round game in the NCAA's they could do a lot of damage. Winning that first game will be the key for them since they haven't done that in a while.Again, I have a hard time believing that if the defender is defending and the offensive player jumps back into him, that it is a defensive foul by rule. If someone can show me that in writing, that all fouls in the semi circle are defensive fouls, then I'll agree. Otherwise, this was not a charge/block call. It was an offensive player using his body to move the offensive player. It was the same as if an offensive player used his butt in the semicircle to move the defensive player out of the way to maneuver for a shot. If that's the correct interpretation, then the rule gets stupider and stupider.

bucksfan2
02-27-2012, 11:00 AM
That was the correct overrule. The Vandy player was clearly within the semi-circle. If the refs hadn't screwed it up in the first place then there wouldn't have been any arguing at all over it. Vandy played a great game.

Its a very interesting question. By using the semi-circle "rule" no offensive player control foul can be called in that area. An offensive player can elbow, hook, etc, in order to gain an advantage in that semi-circle. In the play in question, Vargas was behind/under the basket and the Vandy player was in the proper defensive position. He didn't flop, he did exactly what he was supposed to do in that situation. Vargas lowered his shoulder, jumped into the Vandy player, and committed an offensive foul. I think the semi-circle rule needs to be amended for players that are coming from the baseline or under the basket.

RiverRat13
02-27-2012, 01:24 PM
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2011-11-08/new-no-charge-arc-to-clean-up-play-in-the-paint

traderumor
02-27-2012, 02:42 PM
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2011-11-08/new-no-charge-arc-to-clean-up-play-in-the-paint
That doesn't address the play in question. It addresses the player approaching the basket from the front. I'm guessing that they either hope this goes away or Stallings pushes the interpretation of the rule and they have to clarify.

jmac
02-27-2012, 11:01 PM
Looks like 2 voters still think of Syracuse as the number 1 team. Also Lunardi's latest has UNC as the number 2 seed in our region. (I think that part hasnt changed since his last one)

Blimpie
02-28-2012, 12:40 PM
As the probable overall #1 seed, UK is a lead-pipe cinch to open the tourney in Louisville. If they advance, you can bet they will land in Atlanta for the Regionals.

It doesn't really matter folks, Big Blue Nation will buy up all the available tickets on the secondary market regardless of where they play.

RiverRat13
02-28-2012, 02:17 PM
That doesn't address the play in question. It addresses the player approaching the basket from the front. I'm guessing that they either hope this goes away or Stallings pushes the interpretation of the rule and they have to clarify.

I didn't see the play so I can't comment. Basically what I took from the article (and why I posted it) is that an offensive player cannot commit an offensive foul on a secondary defender in the semi-circle but he can commit an offensive foul on a primary defender. Like I said, I didn't see the play so I can't comment if the defender should have been ruled either primary or secondary.

WMR
02-29-2012, 06:18 PM
What a sad, bitter old man Booby Knight is...

Asked to list top 5 teams, doesn't mention UK.

Still mad about 1975, Lil Bobby? :lol:

The Operator
02-29-2012, 06:25 PM
What a sad, bitter old man Booby Knight is...

Asked to list top 5 teams, doesn't mention UK.

Still mad about 1975, Lil Bobby? :lol:You've got to be kidding me.

Only at ESPN would that schmuck receive gainful employment under the auspice of providing "analysis". Seriously, if you're that big of a baby about a former rival you should take your bottle and go home.

gilpdawg
02-29-2012, 08:29 PM
Maybe he's senile. I don't even like Kentucky but they are in my mind clearly the best team this year.

WVRed
02-29-2012, 09:09 PM
I posted this on WCN, but I watched part of the WVU-Pitt game a couple weeks ago and couldn't stand to listen to Bob Knight as a commentator. The guy has no communication and in all reality is a shock jock type of analyst, similar to Rush Limbaugh doing NFL.

I wanted to ask my fiancee if I could mute the TV and put the radio on and listen to Tony Caridi, who I can't stand either. When Doron Lamb announced he was returning for his sophomore season, Caridi answered on his call-in show and said "Where was he going to go? Wal-Mart?"

jmac
02-29-2012, 11:22 PM
Here is a discussion about Knight's actions with Matt Jones. They make some excellent points about Knight's always being against the media yet now he is trying to be one as well as Matt saying you dont have to "like" a team but if they are good...they're good.
To me this ridiculous and I didnt hear the Mike and Mike bit....but Greenburg or Golic should have asked "What about KY coach ? " just to get a response.
As WV said, I also dont like listening to Knight commentate so I do mute it or watch another. Not a big Vitale fan but I would listen to him over Knight.

KSTV with Bob Knight's take of the Cats - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZSBp95oKVg&feature=player_embedded)

cumberlandreds
03-01-2012, 07:43 AM
I posted this on WCN, but I watched part of the WVU-Pitt game a couple weeks ago and couldn't stand to listen to Bob Knight as a commentator. The guy has no communication and in all reality is a shock jock type of analyst, similar to Rush Limbaugh doing NFL.

I wanted to ask my fiancee if I could mute the TV and put the radio on and listen to Tony Caridi, who I can't stand either. When Doron Lamb announced he was returning for his sophomore season, Caridi answered on his call-in show and said "Where was he going to go? Wal-Mart?"

I was going to watch the UC/Marquette game last night. But when I heard Knight I turned to the UL/South Florida game. Just didn't want to hear what a bitter old man has to say.

jmac
03-01-2012, 06:57 PM
With the news about Shabezz Muhammad's possible NCAA problems, just wondering how the UK fans feel about continuing to go after this kid. I have heard some say UNC and Duke will continue to so UK should too.
Myself, I feel as though they shouldnt if the NCAA is going to do anything against him.
Though UK wouldnt be named in anything , it would probably bring alot of extra scrutiny and plus if MKG does come back for one more season then that would seal the deal for me as for as SM who would probably be one and done anyway.

The Operator
03-02-2012, 01:19 AM
You know things are going well on a night when Anthony Davis sinks a 3-pointer, lol.

I can't remember a game where this team was so unstoppable from the 3-point line. They had stretches where they just couldn't miss.

ervinsm84
03-02-2012, 01:27 AM
If the tourney were a best of 5 or 7, this team would be a virtual lock to win the title.

Hoosier Red
03-02-2012, 01:32 AM
What a sad, bitter old man Booby Knight is...

Asked to list top 5 teams, doesn't mention UK.

Still mad about 1975, Lil Bobby? :lol:

Simply absurd to not list Kentucky among the top 5 schools. Though if he talked about Kentucky, he might have to talk about the only school to beat them this year. He's refused to mention said school since joining ESPN as well.

If there's one thing Bob Knight can still do, it's hold an irrational grudge.

traderumor
03-02-2012, 02:02 PM
From an outsider's viewpoint, its a little hard to assess UK's greatness right now. The SEC is just really, really weak this year, so it makes you wonder if a lot of the "men against boys" appearances are just because they are playing such poor competition night after night. Heck, Georgia wasn't even a good scrimmage partner last night.

I'm not saying anyone should have them off their top 5 list, but I'm seeing some posts in this thread where some folks are going too far in the other direction as well. I've watched quite a bit of their SEC play, and man, there just isn't much stiff competition in the conference. And I don't think that is because UK is just so much better, but the other teams are barely average NCAA squads.

Scrap Irony
03-02-2012, 02:20 PM
The SEC is plenty strong.

Four teams in the top 30 in terms of RPI. That's one more than the Big 12 or the ACC, tied with the Big East, and only one less than the Big Ten (who leads all conferences with five).

The Bayesian LRMC Top 25 includes four SEC teams-- Kentucky, Florida, Vandy, and Alabama. Only the Big Ten's four top it (as they're ranked higher). No other conference has more than three.

The depth in the conference is also solid, as Mississippi State, Tennessee, Arkansas, and LSU also have wins over Top 25 teams.

Kentucky is playing good teams, for the most part. They're just beating them handily. Whether that continues or not is anybody's guess, as the basketball do take some crazy hops in March.

But yeah, Kentucky's good.

traderumor
03-02-2012, 02:49 PM
The SEC is plenty strong.

Four teams in the top 30 in terms of RPI. That's one more than the Big 12 or the ACC, tied with the Big East, and only one less than the Big Ten (who leads all conferences with five).

The Bayesian LRMC Top 25 includes four SEC teams-- Kentucky, Florida, Vandy, and Alabama. Only the Big Ten's four top it (as they're ranked higher). No other conference has more than three.

The depth in the conference is also solid, as Mississippi State, Tennessee, Arkansas, and LSU also have wins over Top 25 teams.

Kentucky is playing good teams, for the most part. They're just beating them handily. Whether that continues or not is anybody's guess, as the basketball do take some crazy hops in March.

But yeah, Kentucky's good.Just for grins, I go to the RPI rankings and I see this for the SEC:

2, 19, 23, 25, 65, 68, 70, 82, 92, 108, 145, 186

Big East:
1, 7, 12, 21, 30, 41, 44, 46, 50, 77, 97, 116, 133, 138, 158, 201

Big 10:
4, 9, 15, 17, 20, 40, 43, 74, 85, 128, 129, 152

SEC-big dropoff from best team to next ranked team, big dropoff from top 4 to number 5. I would call that a very mediocre conference from top to bottom, and looky there, a lot of barely average teams.

Back to my point: how good is UK? hard to tell in a weak SEC with a lot of barely average teams. Anyone with any knowledge of the game knows they're good with or without reference to RPI rankings, but it is real easy to overestimate a team's worth when they are facing fewer tougher games in the grueling conference schedule. That was my warning to some overzealous UK fans already crowning their team as historically great.

But then, as a Buckeyes fan, I know all too well how that gets exposed come tourney time.

WVRed
03-02-2012, 10:35 PM
From an outsider's viewpoint, its a little hard to assess UK's greatness right now. The SEC is just really, really weak this year, so it makes you wonder if a lot of the "men against boys" appearances are just because they are playing such poor competition night after night. Heck, Georgia wasn't even a good scrimmage partner last night.

I'm not saying anyone should have them off their top 5 list, but I'm seeing some posts in this thread where some folks are going too far in the other direction as well. I've watched quite a bit of their SEC play, and man, there just isn't much stiff competition in the conference. And I don't think that is because UK is just so much better, but the other teams are barely average NCAA squads.

I don't disagree about the SEC, but UK has played a pretty formidable out of conference schedule, especially with UNC, Kansas, Indiana, and Louisville all locks to make the tournament. Throw in Florida and Vanderbilt twice, Mississippi State, and possibly those teams another time in the SEC tournament, and UK is plenty battle tested.

I would have agreed with this assessment two years ago as Kentucky played a pretty weak non-conference schedule (although nobody would have predicted UNC and UConn would miss the tournament), but this years team is in much better shape come NCAA tournament time.

WMR
03-03-2012, 12:17 AM
nm

ervinsm84
03-03-2012, 01:11 AM
I'm not even a Kentucky fan, and normally root against them. Still, this team has been one of the best teams of the past 12 or so years up to this point and its really not up for debate.


Here is UK's efficiency margin in conference play only, and doesnt include the most recent Ga game bc the screenshot is from an article on Tuesday
http://img259.imageshack.us/img259/3649/conferenceplaykentucky.jpg

I'll Let Gasaway from Basketball Prospectus' Tuesday Truths Summarize their performance.


Outscoring your major conference by a quarter of a point per trip is just sick. In recent years the standard here was set by the Kansas team that went on to win the national championship in 2008. The Jayhawks outscored that year's Big 12 by 0.24 points per possession. So, yes, UK is pretty good at basketball. For instance their offense in-conference has been two standard deviations better than the league average. (Cough, cough, unheard of!, cough.) Should I keep going? Fine. In two-point shooting, three-point shooting, turnover percentage, offensive rebound percentage, and free-throw rate in SEC play, the Wildcats rank first, second, first, second, and second, respectively. When was the last time we saw an offense this potent all the way across the categorical board? Chris Paul-era Wake Forest comes to mind, certainly. Anyway, for an offense to be this good is improbable. And for the same players to then turn around and play their league's best defense is simply unfair. Life is ridiculously good in Lexington.


That scoring margin you see up there next to Kentucky's name is ridiculous. It doesn't happen, at least not in major conferences.

http://basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2087
http://basketballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=2100

WMR
03-03-2012, 01:38 AM
But then, as a Buckeyes fan, I know all too well how that gets exposed come tourney time.

Buckeyes had a nice team last year, just had the misfortune of running into the JORTS Express.

jmac
03-03-2012, 10:05 AM
Found this snippet :

How good is Kentucky? The Wildcats are No. 1 in the polls, the Bilas Index, our College Basketball Power Index (BPI), KenPom's power index, LRMC and Sagarin. Basically, computers and humans actually agree on something -- Kentucky is the best college hoops team in the land. (RPI has UK at No. 2, but RPI is a "blunt instrument," as Jay Bilas calls it, not a computer or a human.)


Kentucky currently has the highest pre-tournament BPI we've seen over the six years of analysis we've run.


Another thing we see with Kentucky is that it is consistent. Last week, we talked about the inconsistent teams -- Notre Dame and Florida State -- both of whom made BPI look good by playing poorly since then. Kentucky is not only the best team in the land, but the most consistent on our variation scale. In fact, they are the most consistent good team in the six years of BPI.

traderumor
03-03-2012, 12:09 PM
And how cool it is that teams have to prove it on the court, unlike the BCS mess.

jmac
03-03-2012, 12:31 PM
It's fun to debate and talk about rankings all thru the year but all it takes come tournament time is one great shooting game or foul trouble our a bad call etc and it's over. Yeah I think UK has the best team this season but I think there are 3-4 teams that could win on a given night and several more that could win on one of those execeptional nights like I listed.
Thats why I am not one of those who say if you dont win a Championship in a particular year, you are a failure.
I think as a Number 1 seed though, you should definitely advance deep and not have a early exit.

traderumor
03-04-2012, 08:05 AM
It's fun to debate and talk about rankings all thru the year but all it takes come tournament time is one great shooting game or foul trouble our a bad call etc and it's over. Yeah I think UK has the best team this season but I think there are 3-4 teams that could win on a given night and several more that could win on one of those execeptional nights like I listed.
Thats why I am not one of those who say if you dont win a Championship in a particular year, you are a failure.
I think as a Number 1 seed though, you should definitely advance deep and not have a early exit.
I think people generally understand that winning the NCAA tournament is not the sole measuring stick of success/failure for a season. However, UK is now in that unenviable position of anything less will certainly cast a shadow on the season because of what they have accomplished in the regular season.

Scrap Irony
03-04-2012, 10:23 AM
I think people generally understand that winning the NCAA tournament is not the sole measuring stick of success/failure for a season. However, UK is now in that unenviable position of anything less will certainly cast a shadow on the season because of what they have accomplished in the regular season.

Horsecrap.

If Kentucky doesn't make it to the Final Four, it may be considered a disappointing season. But once you get to the Final Four, it's successful.

Any "fan" that thinks otherwise doesn't understand how truly grueling it is to get there.

WMR
03-04-2012, 12:44 PM
Horsecrap.

If Kentucky doesn't make it to the Final Four, it may be considered a disappointing season. But once you get to the Final Four, it's successful.

Any "fan" that thinks otherwise doesn't understand how truly grueling it is to get there.

Yep.

jmac
03-04-2012, 05:06 PM
As good as this team has played, it really shows the determination to win on the road at Vandy-Miss St- and Fla. I really figured they would lose at least one of these games.
Nice job guys !!! You have made it a very enjoyable season !!
:jump:

Now let's keep it going ! :D

Sea Ray
03-04-2012, 05:31 PM
Thanks for the win against Florida today. :thumbup: That enabled my Vols to move into the #2 seed of the SEC tournament. I never would have guessed that after we lost to UK and were limping home 2-5 in league play. To think where we were at this time last year, weak league or not, we've come a long way. Your coach even gave us props after the game!

traderumor
03-04-2012, 07:02 PM
Horsecrap.

If Kentucky doesn't make it to the Final Four, it may be considered a disappointing season. But once you get to the Final Four, it's successful.

Any "fan" that thinks otherwise doesn't understand how truly grueling it is to get there."fan" huh? I'm hurt. :lol:

For some teams, that would be true. I would feel that way at this stage if the Buckeyes made it. For the lofty expectations now bestowed on UK, I'm thinking "just making it there" will leave a nasty taste in UK mouths, regardless of whether they are just idiot "fans" like me or sophisticated students of the game like yourself.

Scrap Irony
03-04-2012, 07:32 PM
"fan" huh? I'm hurt. :lol:

For some teams, that would be true. I would feel that way at this stage if the Buckeyes made it. For the lofty expectations now bestowed on UK, I'm thinking "just making it there" will leave a nasty taste in UK mouths, regardless of whether they are just idiot "fans" like me or sophisticated students of the game like yourself.

I say "fan" not for you, but for those misguided few who don't understand what it takes to get there, then to win.

You're not a fan of anyone but OSU-- first, last, and only. You're here to troll only.

traderumor
03-04-2012, 09:43 PM
I say "fan" not for you, but for those misguided few who don't understand what it takes to get there, then to win.

You're not a fan of anyone but OSU-- first, last, and only. You're here to troll only.Nice, name calling. I think the record shows that I have been nothing but civil, no trash talking, no "OSU is the greatest and everyone else stinks." But whatever. And btw, as to being a loyal fan but commenting on other teams, so what?

jmac
03-04-2012, 10:12 PM
FWIW...I was rooting today for OSU as I would like to see them get a number 1 seed. As a UK fan, I still feel OSU and UNC are probably 2 of the top teams in the country after UK and would rather face them in a Final Four instead of a regional final.
UNC did their part by dismantling Duke at Duke and if they win the ACC, I feel they will get a number 1 seed. I am thinking probably the same for OSU but Kansas might figure in there somewhere.

Scrap Irony
03-05-2012, 07:07 AM
Nice, name calling. I think the record shows that I have been nothing but civil, no trash talking, no "OSU is the greatest and everyone else stinks." But whatever. And btw, as to being a loyal fan but commenting on other teams, so what?

You stir crap. You did it in the IU thread, you're attempting to do it here. Hence, the title, "troll."

As to commenting on other teams, that's absolutely cool. If you're balanced about it.

traderumor
03-05-2012, 09:43 AM
You stir crap. You did it in the IU thread, you're attempting to do it here. Hence, the title, "troll."

As to commenting on other teams, that's absolutely cool. If you're balanced about it.What I see is that folks treat these team threads on RZ as if it is "their" team message board and if anyone wants to provide their input, they are accused of trolling. I think my views have been balanced, have not trash talked (except for the little snide 'giddy schoolgirl' comment in the IU thread), people disagree with my view of their team, or the self proclaimed college bball gurus start throwing out RPIs to try to discredit my observations. I don't consider that trolling, and I really don't appreciate being hammered just because I post something other than "root, root, root for the home team" in a team thread.

BTW, please explain to me what exactly I am "stirring" in this thread? Trying to discuss how good UK really is? Assessing the strength of the SEC?

Sea Ray
03-05-2012, 09:51 AM
What I see is that folks treat these team threads on RZ as if it is "their" team message board and if anyone wants to provide their input, they are accused of trolling. I think my views have been balanced, have not trash talked (except for the little snide 'giddy schoolgirl' comment in the IU thread), people disagree with my view of their team, or the self proclaimed college bball gurus start throwing out RPIs to try to discredit my observations. I don't consider that trolling, and I really don't appreciate being hammered just because I post something other than "root, root, root for the home team" in a team thread.

BTW, please explain to me what exactly I am "stirring" in this thread? Trying to discuss how good UK really is? Assessing the strength of the SEC?

The UK fans get very testy when someone who isn't a card carrying member of their club dare venture in here. The OSU threads are a little better but that's not saying much

Joseph
03-05-2012, 12:33 PM
The UK fans get very testy when someone who isn't a card carrying member of their club dare venture in here. The OSU threads are a little better but that's not saying much

Not saying thats whats going on in this thread as I haven't kept up, but as one of the card carriers mentioned, thats one of my biggest disappointments in BBN. We are among the top programs, yet we draw our share of hate/envy/whatever you want to call it, and far too often we let it rankle us when someone says we are anything less than #1.

traderumor
03-05-2012, 01:16 PM
Not saying thats whats going on in this thread as I haven't kept up, but as one of the card carriers mentioned, thats one of my biggest disappointments in BBN. We are among the top programs, yet we draw our share of hate/envy/whatever you want to call it, and far too often we let it rankle us when someone says we are anything less than #1.From experience as a Buckeyes football fan, I think its insecurity. At least that's what I see from defensive Buckeyes fans.

gilpdawg
03-05-2012, 07:29 PM
Not saying thats whats going on in this thread as I haven't kept up, but as one of the card carriers mentioned, thats one of my biggest disappointments in BBN. We are among the top programs, yet we draw our share of hate/envy/whatever you want to call it, and far too often we let it rankle us when someone says we are anything less than #1.
A lot of UK fans disappoint me, when they get all high and mighty and trash other programs like they are God's gift to college hoops. You have a great program, isn't that enough? Not talking about people here for the most part, but things like Loserville and PukeT bother me. It's classless and I don't like it when Indiana fans call Purdue PeeU either. It's lame, and not very creative.

WVRed
03-05-2012, 11:40 PM
You stir crap. You did it in the IU thread, you're attempting to do it here. Hence, the title, "troll."

As to commenting on other teams, that's absolutely cool. If you're balanced about it.

TR and bucksfan2 are the equivalent of MattyHo and MikeThierry. You know who they pull for, but at least they are contributing to the discussion (although I do agree some of tr's posts could be considered baiting). I'd rather be debating how weak the SEC is, whether Kentucky is peaking too early, or how to beat Kentucky (and watch it be proven wrong) rather than the anti-Calipari slime that other tOSU fans were foaming about last year after we ended their season.

WVRed
03-05-2012, 11:58 PM
A lot of UK fans disappoint me, when they get all high and mighty and trash other programs like they are God's gift to college hoops. You have a great program, isn't that enough? Not talking about people here for the most part, but things like Loserville and PukeT bother me. It's classless and I don't like it when Indiana fans call Purdue PeeU either. It's lame, and not very creative.

I prefer Little Brother U. :)

My experience with UK fans is divided into two segments:

Fan 1: These fans are very knowledgable and follow not just UK, but college basketball in general. They follow recruiting, history, and are typically respectful of other colleges. Most of these fans are also the season ticket holders at Rupp (The Blue Hairs) and you won't see them cheering when you need it most.

Fan 2: These fans follow the Cats only and are crass toward anybody who thinks differently. They love to talk smack, but are the most passionate fans. These are the ones you will find in New Orleans this week and the NCAA tournament later.

Then again, I live in West Virginia so I've seen classless taken to a whole other level.

gilpdawg
03-06-2012, 12:36 AM
I prefer Little Brother U. :)

My experience with UK fans is divided into two segments:

Fan 1: These fans are very knowledgable and follow not just UK, but college basketball in general. They follow recruiting, history, and are typically respectful of other colleges. Most of these fans are also the season ticket holders at Rupp (The Blue Hairs) and you won't see them cheering when you need it most.

Fan 2: These fans follow the Cats only and are crass toward anybody who thinks differently. They love to talk smack, but are the most passionate fans. These are the ones you will find in New Orleans this week and the NCAA tournament later.

Then again, I live in West Virginia so I've seen classless taken to a whole other level.

Don't misunderstand me, I don't mind a little trash talk, just be funny and stuff, don't just resort to silly names. If people want to chant abortion clinic names to Pitino I'm all good with that. :)

WVRed
03-06-2012, 07:56 AM
Don't misunderstand me, I don't mind a little trash talk, just be funny and stuff, don't just resort to silly names. If people want to chant abortion clinic names to Pitino I'm all good with that. :)

When I was at the WVU-Louisville basketball game last year, the student section (which is pretty notorious for doing stupid stuff), was chanting Ka-Ren Sy-Pher.

When we played at Rupp the previous year against Louisville, UK fans tried to get the chant started and Cal went over to the fans and told them to hush. When Bruce Pearl came back from his SEC suspension against UK, the fans chanted "Bruce You Chea-ted" and Cal did the same thing. One thing about it, Cal lives above the fray and he expects UK fans to do the same.

traderumor
03-06-2012, 09:22 AM
TR and bucksfan2 are the equivalent of MattyHo and MikeThierry. You know who they pull for, but at least they are contributing to the discussion (although I do agree some of tr's posts could be considered baiting). I'd rather be debating how weak the SEC is, whether Kentucky is peaking too early, or how to beat Kentucky (and watch it be proven wrong) rather than the anti-Calipari slime that other tOSU fans were foaming about last year after we ended their season.The only regret I have in these bball threads is the "giddy schoolgirl" comment about IU, which I actually think was made in the OSU bball thread, without looking it up. Baiting implies intent, and my intent in these threads is to comment from my point of view. Obviously, with the sometimes irrational passion of fans, esp. college athletics fans, any mention of a team's flaws that differs from their own is heresy, and I'm guessing that is where the accusations of "stirring" and "baiting" start to fly.

WMR
03-06-2012, 10:23 PM
I bet ole Scrap is feeling pretty good right now... :D

Scrap Irony
03-06-2012, 10:31 PM
I bet ole Scrap is feeling pretty good right now... :D

I have no voice left, my dog is still scared of me, and my wife yelled at me twice about waking up the baby.

Don't care, though.

Woot, woot!

WMR
03-06-2012, 10:35 PM
Grats, man. Western has a proud tradition, lots of people don't know that.

I will be pulling for your boys as long as they're not playing UK.

jmac
03-06-2012, 10:38 PM
Grats, man. Western has a proud tradition, lots of people don't know that.

I will be pulling for your boys as long as they're not playing UK.
I already told a friend of mine to watch....a sub 500 record and a low seeding...I see NCAA putting them up against UK.
Great job by WKU and Harper though ! :thumbup:

WMR
03-06-2012, 11:06 PM
I think you've got to say that Ray Harper is the 2nd best coach in the state of Kentucky. :D

cumberlandreds
03-07-2012, 08:05 AM
I already told a friend of mine to watch....a sub 500 record and a low seeding...I see NCAA putting them up against UK.
Great job by WKU and Harper though ! :thumbup:

That's what I think too. A UK/WKU matchup is what CBS looks for in the first weekend. Great job by Harper turning WKU around. Pretty amazing in fact.

Scrap Irony
03-07-2012, 08:26 AM
I think you've got to say that Ray Harper is the 2nd best coach in the state of Kentucky. :D

Good coach. Questionable ethics.

dabvu2498
03-07-2012, 11:03 AM
That's what I think too. A UK/WKU matchup is what CBS looks for in the first weekend. Great job by Harper turning WKU around. Pretty amazing in fact.

WKU will have to go through Dayton, I'd imagine. I'm sure they won't complain too much. I'll be there, rooting for em.

cumberlandreds
03-07-2012, 11:17 AM
WKU will have to go through Dayton, I'd imagine. I'm sure they won't complain too much. I'll be there, rooting for em.

Yes, most likely a play-in game for them before they would meet UK.

dabvu2498
03-07-2012, 12:05 PM
Yes, most likely a play-in game for them before they would meet UK.

And if WKU gets sent to Dayton and UK gets sent to Louisville, there won't be a UK-WKU matchup. They usually don't make the play in teams turn around and play on Thursday.

cumberlandreds
03-07-2012, 01:30 PM
And if WKU gets sent to Dayton and UK gets sent to Louisville, there won't be a UK-WKU matchup. They usually don't make the play in teams turn around and play on Thursday.

I thought there play-in games (1st round) on both Tuesday and Wednesday. Or are the 16 seed games just in Dayton on a Wednesday? I haven't looked how things are set up this year. Oh well if UK doesn't play them it doesn't matter. I wouldn't mind it. Makes for good talk.

dabvu2498
03-07-2012, 02:38 PM
I thought there play-in games (1st round) on both Tuesday and Wednesday. Or are the 16 seed games just in Dayton on a Wednesday? I haven't looked how things are set up this year. Oh well if UK doesn't play them it doesn't matter. I wouldn't mind it. Makes for good talk.

They still don't usually force those teams to travel on Wednesday and play on Thursday.

Tuff Nut
03-07-2012, 08:27 PM
I think you've got to say that Ray Harper is the 2nd best coach in the state of Kentucky. :D
I like my TOPS, but would argue that Steve Prohm is the 2nd best coach in Kentucky.

WVRed
03-07-2012, 09:05 PM
I like my TOPS, but would argue that Steve Prohm is the 2nd best coach in Kentucky.

Cal, Prohm, Harper, Pitino

WVRed
03-07-2012, 09:11 PM
WKU will have to go through Dayton, I'd imagine. I'm sure they won't complain too much. I'll be there, rooting for em.

Is the play-in set by regions? I'm not sure. I know Lunardi has the brackets set as the 16 play-ins as Midwest and South. He does have WKU playing Stony Brook in Kentucky's bracket.

I'm predicting an 8-9 matchup of Memphis vs UConn/West Virginia. I think the ratings speak for themselves.

Chip R
03-09-2012, 11:53 PM
Kentucky fans ought to enjoy this.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/christian-laettner-owes-30-million-unpaid-loans-sports-215427065.html

dabvu2498
03-10-2012, 07:30 PM
Kentucky fans ought to enjoy this.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nba-ball-dont-lie/christian-laettner-owes-30-million-unpaid-loans-sports-215427065.html

Not as much as this:

http://outkickthecoverage.com/awkward-fan-photos-kentucky-wildcats-edition.php :D

So, anyway. Vandy makes its' first SEC final in 61 years and has to face probably the best SEC team in 61 years. Sweet.

Something looked a little off for UK today, I can't quite put my finger on it. Something was certainly off yesterday. I'm hoping their lack of depth and playing 3 straight may be the culprit and the boys in black and gold come up with a way to exploit it. You could tell UF was running with a purpose.

Either way, should be interesting. Maybe even fun.

Hoosier Red
03-11-2012, 03:38 PM
Congrats to Vandy on the win, it's obviously a bigger deal for Vandy to win than for UK to lose but still shouldn't take anything away from Das Commodores.

If there's any concern I'd have on the UK side it's this. Outside of pretty much every Phil Jackson coached team, I've never really seen a team turn on and off effort at will. I'm not sure if Calipari didn't psyche his team out by talking about how little he cared about winning the SEC tournament.

Of course the good news is that as they proved, the Cats should be able to get their sea legs back in the first two rounds as talent wise, it won't matter whether the 16 seed or 8/9 seed is locked in. Kentucky can play for 10 minutes and beat them.

jmac
03-11-2012, 03:40 PM
Well I have said all season, Vandy was one team I thought could win at Rupp. They didnt there but did today. I think they are a difficult matchup for KY with an NBA like center in Ezili and the 3 point guys on the outside. Ezili really neutralized Davis it seemed all day.Watching Vandy play their 3 games against KY really make you wonder how they have lost as many as they have this season.
Ky with a top seed shouldnt have to play a team as good as this till regional finals if we hopefully "dont" stumble before that.
Nice bounce back game by Miller today !

VottoFan54
03-11-2012, 06:27 PM
Duke is the 2 seed in Kentucky's bracket. Kentucky will play the winner of Ms. Valley State and WKU. The 8/9 matchup is Iowa St. vs UCONN.

jmac
03-11-2012, 07:30 PM
So UK will either get WKU or a Sean Woods coached team first game.
While this region has some big names, I dont think it is a very bad draw. We lost by 1 "at" IU and this isnt the same UConn as last year. As far as #2 seeds, I would rather play Duke than Kansas or Mizzou. (barring they or UK for that matter) makes it that far.
Sort of surprised Alabama made it in and certainly surprised Murray was a #6 seed.

WVRed
03-11-2012, 10:22 PM
I absolutely LOVE this draw. I don't think the NCAA did Kentucky any favors, but this is the type of draw that has major implications. A few thoughts:

1. Kentucky losing to Vanderbilt is the best thing that could have happened today. I don't think the Cats have been playing motivated and getting knocked off in the SEC Tournament is better than getting knocked off in the NCAA Tournament. Cal even said he was glad they lost because they were getting full of themselves and it showed this weekend in New Orleans. He should have the teams full attention now.

2. Might as well sleep through the first game, although I am pulling for Western Ky. Vinny Zollo, a former Billy the Clyde recruit, is playing for the Hilltoppers, as well as former Tubby recruit Teeng Akol. Not to mention a former teammate of MKG's whos name escapes me at the moment. Mississippi Valley State is coached by The Unforgettables Sean Woods, so another storyline for the first round match.

3. I love that we are playing possibly UConn, Indiana, and Duke for one simple reason: Motivation. UK isn't going to be looking ahead to Indiana knowing they owe UConn for two losses from last season. They aren't going to be looking ahead to Duke knowing that Indiana handed them their only regular season loss this season. Duke, well, that kind of speaks for itself. I felt the WVU game a couple of years ago was lost because UK looked ahead to Duke, not this time.

4. Kentucky didn't even get the worst draw. If anything, I see them being the only no 1 seed to make the Final Four. Jim Nantz being the ACC homer that he is brought up how Kentucky should have been seeded in St Louis and UNC in Atlanta due to proximity because UNC has to play Kansas now in St Louis.

5. This somewhat goes with point 3, but a good drinking game would be to take a drink everytime the Watford or Laettner shot is shown by CBS the entire tournament.

As for the "dream scenario":

UConn: They have the talent, but not the cohesiveness. They remind me of the Wake Forest team we played two years ago that UK fans panicked over. Kemba Walker ain't walkin through that door. Drummond takes plays off, UConn has nothing on the wings, although I think their guard play is equal with ours. Add in a pro-UK crowd and I expect Kentucky to win by 10 or more.

Indiana: I'm not going to blame officiating for the loss in Bloomington, but if Terrence Jones shows up, UK will win. If anything, this game will be a primer for the Elite Eight matchup, as both teams will live and die by the three.

Duke: This is where the youth and maturity of this team will be tested. Kentucky should win as long as they don't get starstruck by playing the Dookies. I look for Cal to play the ultimate game of chess by sticking MKG on Austin Rivers to disrupt Duke from running their offense. If UK can keep Davis and Jones on the floor without them getting into foul trouble, it will be a major help. Kentucky has the athleticism, but Duke isn't going to want to play up-tempo. If its an up-tempo game, advantage Kentucky.

dabvu2498
03-11-2012, 10:46 PM
a former teammate of MKG's whos name escapes me at the moment.

Derrick Gordon. He's WKU's best player.

WVRed
03-11-2012, 10:51 PM
Derrick Gordon. He's WKU's best player.

I figured Scrap would have given me grief for that one. :)

I've got Kentucky, Missouri, Vanderbilt, and Kansas for my Final Four, with Kentucky beating Kansas for the National Championship.

IslandRed
03-11-2012, 11:37 PM
Duke: This is where the youth and maturity of this team will be tested. Kentucky should win as long as they don't get starstruck by playing the Dookies. I look for Cal to play the ultimate game of chess by sticking MKG on Austin Rivers to disrupt Duke from running their offense. If UK can keep Davis and Jones on the floor without them getting into foul trouble, it will be a major help. Kentucky has the athleticism, but Duke isn't going to want to play up-tempo. If its an up-tempo game, advantage Kentucky.

Duke likes up-tempo because it's easier to get open threes before the defense is set, and they live and die on the threes. Mostly live, because they have great shooters. Having said that, I like that matchup a lot for Kentucky also and it's because of Anthony Davis. Duke's post players aren't quick enough to handle him down low in my opinion, and on the other end, the strategy FSU used on Duke the other day -- clamp down on the 3-pointers and make them drive and beat you inside the arc -- works even better with a guy like Davis waiting in the paint.

jmac
03-12-2012, 12:15 AM
I have KY-Missouri-UNC-Syracuse. Havent been sold on Syracuse all year but I really dont see anyone except OSU giving them a serious challenge. I certainly think Vandy could but I am waiting to see if they can advance past the first round or two in the big dance. So basically I chose Syracuse over OSU.
UK over UNC for the title (I hope :D)

In another note, I noticed tonight how Bilas picked UK to win it and Digger picked MSU while Hubert picked UNC. No shockers there. :laugh:

Sea Ray
03-12-2012, 09:31 AM
I figured Scrap would have given me grief for that one. :)

I've got Kentucky, Missouri, Vanderbilt, and Kansas for my Final Four, with Kentucky beating Kansas for the National Championship.

You think the SEC will put two teams in the Final Four?

bucksfan2
03-12-2012, 10:10 AM
UConn: They have the talent, but not the cohesiveness. They remind me of the Wake Forest team we played two years ago that UK fans panicked over. Kemba Walker ain't walkin through that door. Drummond takes plays off, UConn has nothing on the wings, although I think their guard play is equal with ours. Add in a pro-UK crowd and I expect Kentucky to win by 10 or more.

Indiana: I'm not going to blame officiating for the loss in Bloomington, but if Terrence Jones shows up, UK will win. If anything, this game will be a primer for the Elite Eight matchup, as both teams will live and die by the three.

Duke: This is where the youth and maturity of this team will be tested. Kentucky should win as long as they don't get starstruck by playing the Dookies. I look for Cal to play the ultimate game of chess by sticking MKG on Austin Rivers to disrupt Duke from running their offense. If UK can keep Davis and Jones on the floor without them getting into foul trouble, it will be a major help. Kentucky has the athleticism, but Duke isn't going to want to play up-tempo. If its an up-tempo game, advantage Kentucky.

I have serious doubts that the bracket plays out like this. It hardly ever does. But when you bring up these three teams here is what I see.

UConn in the 2nd round is a tough draw. In the tournament I think it comes down to choaching, guard play, and big man play. Calhoun and Lamb could create a tough day for UK. If UConn could turn the game into a slugfest I would really want to see how UK responded to that style of play.

IU isn't surprising anybody anymore. Blowout if these two meet.

I have serious doubts that Duke can advance this far. I would actually put my money on Baylor advancing. But that said Coach K, guard play, and the bigs could give UK trouble. I just don't see this Duke team advancing to the elite 8, heck they will have their hands full with ND.

I think the committee did UK a huge favor. They put the teams that could cause them trouble on the opposite side of the bracket. I think matchups against Syracuse, FSU, OSU, UNC, Kansas and even Georgetown all would be fun games to watch, but they won't see any of those two until the title game.

WVRed
03-12-2012, 10:22 AM
You think the SEC will put two teams in the Final Four?

Well, three if you want to be technical about it. :)

I think Vanderbilt is the type of team that could use the Kentucky win as momentum heading into the tournament, similar to what Mississippi State did in 96. I think they can knock off Syracuse if they shoot well from three as Vandy is exceptionally perimeter oriented.

OTOH, I have them facing Florida State in the Elite Eight and the more I think about it, the more I am leaning toward the Seminoles. FSU shut down Duke from three and Vandy is a similar team. Ohio State as I posted in the OSU thread got a raw deal likely playing WVU in Pittsburgh, and FSU will capitalize on that if the Buckeyes get knocked off early (and I think they will).

WVRed
03-12-2012, 10:25 AM
I have serious doubts that the bracket plays out like this. It hardly ever does. But when you bring up these three teams here is what I see.

UConn in the 2nd round is a tough draw. In the tournament I think it comes down to choaching, guard play, and big man play. Calhoun and Lamb could create a tough day for UK. If UConn could turn the game into a slugfest I would really want to see how UK responded to that style of play.

IU isn't surprising anybody anymore. Blowout if these two meet.

I have serious doubts that Duke can advance this far. I would actually put my money on Baylor advancing. But that said Coach K, guard play, and the bigs could give UK trouble. I just don't see this Duke team advancing to the elite 8, heck they will have their hands full with ND.

I think the committee did UK a huge favor. They put the teams that could cause them trouble on the opposite side of the bracket. I think matchups against Syracuse, FSU, OSU, UNC, Kansas and even Georgetown all would be fun games to watch, but they won't see any of those two until the title game.

That's why I called it the "dream scenario". If it plays out that way, Kentucky has motivation in every single game. They can't look ahead and for a young team that makes a difference.

As for the rest, I think the team that will likely make it to the Elite Eight is UNLV. They play an up-tempo style of play that I think will give Duke fits (Duke has struggled with athletic teams). I can also see Wichita State knocking off Indiana especially with the injury to VJIII.

Sea Ray
03-12-2012, 10:42 AM
I'll be the first to say, I'm no college BB expert. College BB just kind of gets me from football to baseball season but I don't think the SEC is good enough to get two teams in the Final Four. I saw some folks penciling in Florida as a potential Final Four team too. I think the SEC might get UK in there but that's it. Heck my very mediocre Volunteers just beat Vandy. They didn't look like Final Four material to me.

dabvu2498
03-12-2012, 11:25 AM
There may only be a couple teams this year with a trio better than Jenkins-Taylor-Ezeli for Vanderbilt. And Stallings is finally being rewarded for using his bench when a lot of folks were screaming that he should have been using a 6 1/2 man rotation. They are a versatile bunch. They can come out big, small, play fast, slow it down, shoot threes or pound it inside, play man or zone effectively. They would be a tough team to prepare for in a tournament.

On the minus side, they're wildly inconsistent. Listen to Stallings' presser after yesterday. Even he doesn't know how to deal with them on that level. Jeff Taylor is probably as talented a kid as I've ever seen in a Vanderbilt uniform and yet he's liable to come out and lay an egg like he did against Ole Miss.

They could very well lose to Harvard. They could very well go to the Final 4. I wouldn't be surprised, after yesterday, if they did come out and drop Thursday's game.

And that's no disrespect to those kids. They're really, really good kids and I'm proud of how they've spent their time at Vanderbilt.

Scrap Irony
03-12-2012, 01:44 PM
Knee-jerk, my Final Four has Kentucky, Ohio State, Michigan State, and Kansas in it. North Carolina got hosed by the selection committee, as they'll likely play Kansas as an almost true road game.

At that point, you pick the team that plays defense the best, as only Vandy seems capable of shooting well in New Orleans. (And don't think I didn't pause long and hard on Taylor, Jenkins, and Ezeli-- my sleeper pick-- to make it all the way.)

I'm thinking it's Michigan State's to lose at this point, though three of the four could very well win.

TeamSelig
03-12-2012, 04:33 PM
I don't see Vandy beating Wisconsin. I think they will be tough to beat as they have a tough defense and don't turn the ball over much.

jmac
03-12-2012, 05:52 PM
"If" Vandy plays the way the are capable of, they could make the Final Four no doubt. Ezeli and friends form a good inside/outside punch.
Course as dabvu2498 said, they could lose to Harvard too.
If you said I could list several teams that UK would not have to play at anytime in the NCAA tourney, it would be UNC #1 and Vandy #2 as Vandy has beat UK once and played a close game in 2 losses.

jmac
03-18-2012, 10:16 PM
U of L's Chane Behanon is at it again. Most will remember early in the year, when Cards got off to quick start, he said they were going undefeated etc. Dont remember all that he rattled off.
Now after they beat Davidson and New Mexico, he is at it again as you can see below :

Behanan gave a shout out to the city of Louisville and then gave his prediction for the rest of the Tournament saying, We get to the Final Four, its a piece of cake from there.

Guess UK, UNC, OSU, Kansas, Syracuse (if any of these make it) etc will have good bulletin board material if UofL gets by MSU. :D

WMR
03-18-2012, 10:24 PM
He's an idiot. Should keep his mouth shut.

cumberlandreds
03-19-2012, 09:11 AM
What you think about the IU game? If Davis stays out of foul trouble and Terrence Jones is mentally into this game I think they will handle IU. It won't be easy but I think the Cats will win by about 10 points.

WVRed
03-19-2012, 09:50 AM
What you think about the IU game? If Davis stays out of foul trouble and Terrence Jones is mentally into this game I think they will handle IU. It won't be easy but I think the Cats will win by about 10 points.

Neutral court, IU isn't the same team and neither is Kentucky. ESPN showing the Watford shot all season gives the Cats motivation.

Kentucky wins by 15.

TeamSelig
03-19-2012, 11:21 AM
I hope UK beats them by 50. I can't handle another loss to IU. I will probably put my phone away and just not log in to facebook for at least 2-3 weeks. It will be unbearable.

WMR
03-19-2012, 04:17 PM
Nerlens Noel is down to 3 schools ... UK/Syraccused/Gtown ...

Shabazz will announce on April 10th...

Moving the deadline to declare up is not going to make these decisions for kids any easier (whether to stay or go to the NBA). Could very well end up causing more kids to make bad decisions concerning their futures. Expecting the NCAA to do things that actually benefit the student-athlete is insane, I know.

WMR
03-20-2012, 10:25 AM
Neutral court, IU isn't the same team and neither is Kentucky. ESPN showing the Watford shot all season gives the Cats motivation.

Kentucky wins by 15.

I expect UK to be more focused in this game than they have in any other game all season.

WVRed
03-20-2012, 10:41 AM
Nerlens Noel is down to 3 schools ... UK/Syraccused/Gtown ...

Shabazz will announce on April 10th...

Moving the deadline to declare up is not going to make these decisions for kids any easier (whether to stay or go to the NBA). Could very well end up causing more kids to make bad decisions concerning their futures. Expecting the NCAA to do things that actually benefit the student-athlete is insane, I know.

I'm predicting Noel to Kentucky and Shabazz to UCLA.

Scrap Irony
03-20-2012, 02:18 PM
Shabazz to UCLA? Even with the problems surrounding Howland?

cumberlandreds
03-20-2012, 02:57 PM
Shabazz to UCLA? Even with the problems surrounding Howland?

I think Addidas (sp?) has bought and paid for that to happen.

WVRed
03-20-2012, 04:40 PM
I think Addidas (sp?) has bought and paid for that to happen.

Adidas.

Shabazz is really close with Kyle Anderson, another top 5 player who has committed to UCLA. UCLA has a lot of problems, but they retained Howland because of this recruiting class. And Shabazz will only be in school for one year before leaving for the NBA, so even if UCLA underachieves, Howland will get the ax anyways.

Todd Gack
03-20-2012, 11:52 PM
I expect UK to be more focused in this game than they have in any other game all season.

The X's and O's of this game doesn't really matter IMO. I don't think 'revenge' will be as big of part of the game as people think. UK still has a very young team. Just like most UK games, Kentucky just has to worry about themselves and they'll win. Even if Terrence Jones just has an 'average' game and AD does the same, UK should win.

jmac
03-21-2012, 08:56 PM
Well folks, Bob Knight said "Kentucky" 5 times this morning on Mike and Mike. Question is now, did he do this on his own "or" did ESPN tell him to shape up......:)

Joseph
03-21-2012, 09:26 PM
Well folks, Bob Knight said "Kentucky" 5 times this morning on Mike and Mike. Question is now, did he do this on his own "or" did ESPN tell him to shape up......:)

You have to think ESPN directed him to get over it already. He can hate them all he wants, but he adds fuel to the fire by purposely ignoring them. If he just says the name when discussing the topic, it all goes away.

jmac
03-21-2012, 09:30 PM
You have to think ESPN directed him to get over it already. He can hate them all he wants, but he adds fuel to the fire by purposely ignoring them. If he just says the name when discussing the topic, it all goes away.

Yeah and I think he gave it away today by saying it 5 times when before he didnt even list Davis for POY candidate. :laugh:

WVRed
03-21-2012, 10:03 PM
Well folks, Bob Knight said "Kentucky" 5 times this morning on Mike and Mike. Question is now, did he do this on his own "or" did ESPN tell him to shape up......:)

According to Matt Jones, ESPN told him to "cut the crap".

Razor Shines
03-21-2012, 11:14 PM
According to Matt Jones, ESPN told him to "cut the crap".

Did he say Indiana?


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Assembly Hall
03-21-2012, 11:34 PM
Did he say Indiana?


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Why yes he did.

VottoFan54
03-22-2012, 07:41 PM
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist is going pro. link (http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2012/story/_/id/7723624/2012-nba-draft-kentucky-wildcats-michael-kidd-gilchrist-enter-draft-source-says)

Is anyone surprised by this?

jmac
03-22-2012, 08:22 PM
I felt if anyone might come back due to enjoying college basketball life, it might be MKG. Although I thought when reports came out the other day that MKG said he planned on staying all 4 years was totally ridiculous. A sophmore season ? Maybe. All 4 ? No way.
I may be in the minority here but till he developes a jumpshot, I just dont see MKG making an immediate impact as a pro. If you charted his "made" FG's this season, I would guess 80 % is within the 10 ft range and that is by putbacks ,fastbreak points etc. It is hard to see him doing that in the NBA.
I am a big fan of MKG and he may surprise me in the NBA but he just seems like this season, an exceptional college player who still lacks a good consistent jumper which he would need at the next level.

IslandRed
03-22-2012, 09:40 PM
I may be in the minority here but till he developes a jumpshot, I just dont see MKG making an immediate impact as a pro. If you charted his "made" FG's this season, I would guess 80 % is within the 10 ft range and that is by putbacks ,fastbreak points etc. It is hard to see him doing that in the NBA. I am a big fan of MKG and he may surprise me in the NBA but he just seems like this season, an exceptional college player who still lacks a good consistent jumper which he would need at the next level.

It's not just you. I love his all-around game and his court smarts, but physically, he's just another guy at that level. He'll need to develop his outside shot. On the other hand, his ability to D up and pass the ball gives him a chance to stick around a long time even if he never becomes a top scorer. Nothing wrong with having Shane Battier's career if that's how it ends up.

WVRed
03-22-2012, 11:28 PM
It's not just you. I love his all-around game and his court smarts, but physically, he's just another guy at that level. He'll need to develop his outside shot. On the other hand, his ability to D up and pass the ball gives him a chance to stick around a long time even if he never becomes a top scorer. Nothing wrong with having Shane Battier's career if that's how it ends up.

If MKG does come back, it will be for those reasons, similar to Harrison Barnes returning to UNC.

Still, if your stock is high, take the plunge and go pro. College football is all about development at the college level. The NBA will develop you how THEY want you to play.

jmac
03-23-2012, 04:26 PM
Last year Kyrie Irving and now Austin Rivers......will Vitale and friends start calling Coach K a "One and Done" recruiter ? :laugh:

WMR
03-23-2012, 04:28 PM
Last year Kyrie Irving and now Austin Rivers......will Vitale and friends start calling Coach K a "One and Done" recruiter ? :laugh:

Duke's one and dones leave early "the right way." :D

Captain13
03-23-2012, 04:34 PM
Last year Kyrie Irving and now Austin Rivers......will Vitale and friends start calling Coach K a "One and Done" recruiter ? :laugh:

Coach K is an arrogent, smug, A-hole. I hope he is discovered as a phony and a fraud by the national media.

Razor Shines
03-23-2012, 04:37 PM
Coach K is an arrogent, smug, A-hole. I hope he is discovered as a phony and a fraud by the national media.

Except he's not.


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Captain13
03-23-2012, 04:48 PM
A man who portrays himself as a mild mannered, God-fearing, buttoned up role model and then turns into a foul-mouthed bully on the sidelines fits my definition of phony. I can't prove that he is an arrogent, smug A-hole, but he seems like one to me.

I do believe he doesn't cheat (I don't for a minute believe that none of Duke's boosters have).

WMR
03-23-2012, 05:10 PM
I heard Rivers wanted to leave while his draft stock was still moderate Lehigh.

Scrap Irony
03-23-2012, 05:35 PM
Coach K is Bobby Knight with better impulse control and a better publicist.

Assembly Hall
03-23-2012, 06:36 PM
Coach K is Bobby Knight with better impulse control and a better publicist.

Is that a crack on me?------signed, Pat Knight :D

Razor Shines
03-23-2012, 07:03 PM
Coach K is Bobby Knight with better impulse control and a better publicist.

Could be but he was nice to me and my family and there was nothing in it for him.


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The Operator
03-24-2012, 12:48 AM
I heard Rivers wanted to leave while his draft stock was still moderate Lehigh.HEY-O! :D

gilpdawg
03-24-2012, 12:53 AM
To get this thing back on topic, man Kentucky is good. Indiana played about as well as they've played all year, and it didn't matter. Indiana would have beaten anybody else in the country tonight not named Kentucky. I don't see anyone beating them unless they just lay an egg. If they play to the best of their abilities they will not lose.

BRM
03-24-2012, 12:56 AM
95% at the line, 35-37. That was unbelievable to see. Very entertaining game offensively from both teams. Congrats to UK.

George Foster
03-24-2012, 02:01 AM
95% at the line, 35-37. That was unbelievable to see. Very entertaining game offensively from both teams. Congrats to UK.

Coach Cal's teams are notorious for not shooting free throws well in big games so this game was special. This game took a lot out of us. I hope we have enough in the tank for Baylor.

Hoosier Red
03-24-2012, 02:12 AM
I said on Twitter that I heard "Happy Gilmore saying, "uh oh, Happy learned to putt," every time UK made a free throw . Incredible effort. The FTs pretty much eliminated any chance at comeback.

jmac
03-24-2012, 09:12 AM
Classic game ! Like Rocky and Creed going back and forth, toe to toe.
After ISU caught KY at 42 in the last game, from then to now, they have played at totally another level.
Hope they can keep it up on Sunday.

Assembly Hall
03-24-2012, 10:22 AM
IU played about as well as they could last night. Unfortunately for the Hoosiers, UK brought their "A" game as well. Very entertaining game.

Good luck 'Cats the rest of the way!:thumbup:

jmac
03-24-2012, 11:23 AM
IU is back I think it is safe to say and that is good for the college basketball area around these parts.

jmac
03-24-2012, 11:23 AM
I want to address something said in the IU thread but since it concerns Cal, I am doing it in this one.
It was this post by WVRed :

I'm one of the few UK fans who feel this way, but I think this is Cal's last year at Kentucky if he wins it all. It's the perfect storm:

1. This team is likely to lose a LOT of players. Miller and Vargas to graduation, as well as the possibility of Lamb, TJ, MKG, Davis, and Teague all going pro. This team will return Kyle Wiltjer as the only player to log significant minutes on this team. Ryan Harrow will be eligible after sitting out from transferring from NC State, and Jon Hood is recovering from a torn ACL.

2. In addition to players, the coaching staff is in flux. Kenny Payne and Orlando Antigua are in consideration for head coaching jobs and that decision becomes easier if Kentucky wins it all. Last I've heard is Payne to Mississippi State and Antigua to Duquesne. John Robic will be the only one on staff and he will follow Cal wherever he goes.

If you think about it, Cal is losing up to SEVEN players and two top assistants. Not to mention the teams Cal has had in the past have been a mixture of upperclassmen and young players. There is no Patrick Patterson, Perry Stevenson, Ramon Harris, Josh Harrellson, or Darius Miller on next years team, unless you count Jon Hood, who will be a redshirt junior. I understand the recruiting class Cal has coming in (potentially) next season, but this is why I think the NBA has more allure:

1. Cal is not the same coach as Rick Pitino when Pitino left for the Celtics. In order to be a successful NBA coach, you have to have a "niche". Cal didn't have that with the Nets and Pitino still doesn't have one, just motivation. You can motivate a kid with a scholarship. You have to work harder or have a system to get millionaires who make more than the coach to work. Cal has that now with the Dribble Drive.

2. If Cal does leave for the NBA I think it will be two teams, either the Knicks or the Wizards:

Knicks: I know Carmelo Anthony is example A, B, C, and D as to why Cal won't work, but this team is BUILT for the dribble drive, especially with Jeremy Lin running the point. Do you think Cal wouldn't like to work with Linsanity? Especially with Carmelo and Stoudemire waiting to knock down open shots? Not to mention the Knicks are one of the elite teams in the league, and Cal has a big ego.

Wizards: Washington has a very good chance of landing a top 4 pick. They already have John Wall, one of the rising stars in the league. Wouldn't you love to be a coach and have an inside-out combination of John Wall and Anthony Davis?

Thats why I think if Cal leaves, this will be the year. If he doesn't, he may not get an opportunity to do so again. If he did something and is skipping town, we will discuss that when something comes to light.

I understand some of your points but overall, I see things a little differently.

1: I agree as far as the missing ingredient Cal will have after this year barring a return from Lamb or Jones (and it wouldnt surprise me if Lamb returned)
Alot of people do not pick up on the veteran that each Cal team has had. Stevenson and Harris were big that first year even though they didnt get much pub. Harrelson came from out of nowhere so who knows...maybe Hood will or Wiljter will take a giant step next season.
Of course "each" Cal team has had one common denominator and that is Darius Miller. The kid has really grown leaps and bounds in the last 3 years and I am sure UK would have lost a couple during the season if it wasnt for Miller.
Wiljter is a good recruit who is the kind of kid who would stick around maybe 3-4 years. UK has another one coming in next season who isnt the one and done type (cant think of his name though)

2: Not just because I am a UK fan but saying this anyway, if Cal leaves a job like UK "and" the place where he has put UK back into college basketball, it would be one of the dumbest moves ever IMO.
I just think guys like Pitino and Cal are exceptional college coaches who have the 2 ingredients to make a great college coach : Recruiter and motivator.
He does have the dribble drive but I dont think he could go to Miss State for example and turn them into a power with it. He would have to do what Cal does along with others like Pitino and Williams etc and that is recruit.
In the NBA, you are stuck with who you have. The Wizards picked Wall but are still struggling. The Kings recently have got guys like Evans-Cousins-Jimmer and still struggle.
Now if a coach steps into a high profile NBA job already established like LA,Dallas, Bulls etc, yeah he could win. But a coach isnt going to take over the Bobcats and make them a winner overnight. If it takes 3-5 years, there is a good chance that coach will be fired beforehand.
Plus in the NBA, all it takes is one star player disgruntled and it is Bye-Bye coach.
I think guys like Coach K (who I am not a big fan of because of Duke:p) and Williams have shown extreme smarts in sticking at these high profile jobs where they can dominate year in and year out. I always have said that he might not admit it but I bet deep inside, Pitino knows leaving UK was one of the dumbest things he could have done. Guys like him and Cal- K--Williams-Self and a few others are always going to be able to get top talent into their program as opposed to an NBA job.
Also...it is hard to see Cal run and up and jumping on sidelines in NBA the way he does in college. Look at the top NBA coaches over the years, Rivers-Jackson-Popavich etc. They are pretty and tame and stoic on sideline and some like Phil Jackson you practically never seen move off the bench.
Even if Cal does win it all, he has the chance to put together a nice reign at UK. Maybe not a Final Four every year but a basketball power every year nonetheless.
WVRed, this wasnt really directed at you , just my take on the Cal to NBA subject. ;)

Assembly Hall
03-24-2012, 11:49 AM
jmac, thanks for your kudos concerning IU. But I couldnt agree more on your Cal going to the NBA take.

Scrap Irony
03-24-2012, 12:21 PM
If he goes, it's because Kentucky is probably the most exhausting job in sports. It's truly 24/7, and you can't hide. Ever.

I'm guessing he's here for a decade or so, then retires.

A couple years later, he might go to a pro team or perhaps a really small school. (It fits his personality, IMO.)

Scrap Irony
03-24-2012, 12:23 PM
BTW, as to the IU game, I love the speed with which both teams played. It was perhaps the most enjoyable game to watch-- for a basketball purist-- in a decade. Reminds me of early Roy Williams' North Carolina teams.

joshnky
03-24-2012, 01:50 PM
If he goes, it's because Kentucky is probably the most exhausting job in sports. It's truly 24/7, and you can't hide. Ever.


I think Mike D'antoni would say the same about the Knicks job.

WVRed
03-24-2012, 11:29 PM
[QUOTE]I understand some of your points but overall, I see things a little differently.

1: I agree as far as the missing ingredient Cal will have after this year barring a return from Lamb or Jones (and it wouldnt surprise me if Lamb returned)
Alot of people do not pick up on the veteran that each Cal team has had. Stevenson and Harris were big that first year even though they didnt get much pub. Harrelson came from out of nowhere so who knows...maybe Hood will or Wiljter will take a giant step next season.
Of course "each" Cal team has had one common denominator and that is Darius Miller. The kid has really grown leaps and bounds in the last 3 years and I am sure UK would have lost a couple during the season if it wasnt for Miller.
Wiljter is a good recruit who is the kind of kid who would stick around maybe 3-4 years. UK has another one coming in next season who isnt the one and done type (cant think of his name though)

Problem is you can't expect sophomores (Wiltjer) to lead your team, and by lead I mean veteran composure. Kentucky has had a "glue guy" in each of Cal's three years. This year its Miller, last year Harrellson, year before Stevenson and Harris. The player transferring in is Ryan Harrow from NC State and he will likely be the starting PG next season. Another player that might be an interesting transfer option that might give UK that piece would be Alex Oriahki from UConn, who is transferring since UConn is missing the tournament next season.


2: Not just because I am a UK fan but saying this anyway, if Cal leaves a job like UK "and" the place where he has put UK back into college basketball, it would be one of the dumbest moves ever IMO.
I just think guys like Pitino and Cal are exceptional college coaches who have the 2 ingredients to make a great college coach : Recruiter and motivator.
He does have the dribble drive but I dont think he could go to Miss State for example and turn them into a power with it. He would have to do what Cal does along with others like Pitino and Williams etc and that is recruit.
In the NBA, you are stuck with who you have. The Wizards picked Wall but are still struggling. The Kings recently have got guys like Evans-Cousins-Jimmer and still struggle.

The bolded point is referenced because Cal took a team at Memphis that is in one of the worst conferences in America and turned it into a powerhouse. He recruited DaJuan Wagner, Derrick Rose, Tyreke Evans, Xavier Henry, and DeMarcus Cousins to Memphis and took the Derrick Rose team to the National Championship. I'm not including UMass because it was pre-dribble drive but the UMass years should be a reflection on Cal's coaching. Kids would follow Cal to India if it meant getting into the NBA.

The dribble drive is what separates Cal from Pitino. Cal has a niche that would work at the next level and has been adopted in some forms by NBA teams, notably Doc Rivers in Boston. Cal flamed out in New Jersey for the same reasons Pitino did in Boston, and that was for the reasons you listed (and I think Pitino would flame out again). You can't win through trying to motivate players who make more money than you do, you have to have something they want.


Now if a coach steps into a high profile NBA job already established like LA,Dallas, Bulls etc, yeah he could win. But a coach isnt going to take over the Bobcats and make them a winner overnight. If it takes 3-5 years, there is a good chance that coach will be fired beforehand.
Plus in the NBA, all it takes is one star player disgruntled and it is Bye-Bye coach.

I don't think Cal would ever leave Kentucky for the Charlotte Bobcats or Toronto Raptors. The Knicks is one of the top jobs in the NBA and is a real possibility. I mentioned the Wizards because of John Wall and the possibility of adding a top 5 pick, which could be MKG or Davis.


I think guys like Coach K (who I am not a big fan of because of Duke:p) and Williams have shown extreme smarts in sticking at these high profile jobs where they can dominate year in and year out. I always have said that he might not admit it but I bet deep inside, Pitino knows leaving UK was one of the dumbest things he could have done. Guys like him and Cal- K--Williams-Self and a few others are always going to be able to get top talent into their program as opposed to an NBA job.

I never had a problem with Pitino for leaving. He re-established Kentucky back to relevancy and for that UK fans should be grateful. Pitino is from the New England area and was getting a chance to coach in one of the top jobs in the NBA and land a future HOF center in Tim Duncan. My problem with Pitino was taking the Louisville job, knowing he would burn any bridge he ever built in the Bluegrass State.


Also...it is hard to see Cal run and up and jumping on sidelines in NBA the way he does in college. Look at the top NBA coaches over the years, Rivers-Jackson-Popavich etc. They are pretty and tame and stoic on sideline and some like Phil Jackson you practically never seen move off the bench.
Even if Cal does win it all, he has the chance to put together a nice reign at UK. Maybe not a Final Four every year but a basketball power every year nonetheless.

I don't disagree, but Rivers, Jackson, and Poppovich are also dealing with grown men and not college students. That would probably explain a lot. :)

WMR
03-25-2012, 04:57 PM
Back to the Final Four!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

Scrap Irony
03-25-2012, 05:15 PM
The Kentucky-Louisville Final Four match-up has a chance to be absolutely crazy. For a week. Dieng is as close to Davis as anyone has in CBB (at least defensively), Benahan is a man at power forward, and Siva isn't killing them at point.

If Louisville somehow finds a way to beat Kentucky...

Calipari would lose luster across the nation. Those questions about Calipari's coaching acumen would become shouts. Some (idiotic) Kentucky fans would start calling for "new blood" at UK. Vitale would once again be able to dog Kentucky fans while defending one of his "favorite coaches". Recruiting could take a major dip, and the whole meme about one-and-done recruits being not only bad for CBB (debateable) but likely to choke in a tournament would gain new traction. The Dribble Drive would be passe.

Pitino, meanwhile, would once again be in that conversation for best CBB coach. He'd become one of the Old Guard Masterminds, a la Dean Smith and John Wooden. Vitale would tell the nation that he knew it was only a matter of time for one of his "favorite coaches" and that all the naysayers were always full of crap. His recruiting would pick up a great deal, as Louisville would become one of the cool places to go once again. The 3 and full court handcheck would come back into style (in places other than the Big East).

Such a juicy storyline-- I almost wish I was back in the newsroom.

Expect national coverage likening people in the state of Kentucky to redneck basketball savants. Expect to hear even more about Pitino "helping" Calipari gain the UMass job. Expect to hear all about Calipari's chippiness since then. Expect to hear about Calipari not being able to win the big one. Expect to hear about Kentucky's shame, Calipari's World Wide Wes connection, Pitino's resuscitating a program on life support, how many Final Fours each has been to (and those that are vacated). Expect to hear about those not-so-subtle jabs both coaches make at each other. Expect to hear at least one of those jabs over the next few days. (Cal won't be able to help himself-- he's too much of a smart aleck.)

Expect it to be crazy.

WMR
03-25-2012, 05:19 PM
Recruiting would take a major dip? No.

WMR
03-25-2012, 05:22 PM
The Kentucky-Louisville Final Four match-up has a chance to be absolutely crazy. For a week. Dieng is as close to Davis as anyone has in CBB (at least defensively), Benahan is a man at power forward, and Siva isn't killing them at point.

If Louisville somehow finds a way to beat Kentucky...

Calipari would lose luster across the nation. Those questions about Calipari's coaching acumen would become shouts. Some (idiotic) Kentucky fans would start calling for "new blood" at UK. Vitale would once again be able to dog Kentucky fans while defending one of his "favorite coaches". Recruiting could take a major dip, and the whole meme about one-and-done recruits being not only bad for CBB (debateable) but likely to choke in a tournament would gain new traction. The Dribble Drive would be passe.

Pitino, meanwhile, would once again be in that conversation for best CBB coach. He'd become one of the Old Guard Masterminds, a la Dean Smith and John Wooden. Vitale would tell the nation that he knew it was only a matter of time for one of his "favorite coaches" and that all the naysayers were always full of crap. His recruiting would pick up a great deal, as Louisville would become one of the cool places to go once again. The 3 and full court handcheck would come back into style (in places other than the Big East).

Such a juicy storyline-- I almost wish I was back in the newsroom.

Expect national coverage likening people in the state of Kentucky to redneck basketball savants. Expect to hear even more about Pitino "helping" Calipari gain the UMass job. Expect to hear all about Calipari's chippiness since then. Expect to hear about Calipari not being able to win the big one. Expect to hear about Kentucky's shame, Calipari's World Wide Wes connection, Pitino's resuscitating a program on life support, how many Final Fours each has been to (and those that are vacated). Expect to hear about those not-so-subtle jabs both coaches make at each other. Expect to hear at least one of those jabs over the next few days. (Cal won't be able to help himself-- he's too much of a smart aleck.)

Expect it to be crazy.

Now let's read the storyline if UK wins? :lol:

joshnky
03-25-2012, 05:27 PM
Now let's read the storyline if UK wins? :lol:

If UK wins they did what they were supposed to do. Louisville has nothing to lose in this game. The fans are happy with an over achieving postseason and recognize UK for the dominant team that they are. Not to mention the matchup problems UofL will have in the championship if they advance that far.

WMR
03-25-2012, 05:30 PM
If UK wins they did what they were supposed to do. Louisville has nothing to lose in this game. The fans are happy with an over achieving postseason and recognize UK for the dominant team that they are. Not to mention the matchup problems UofL will have in the championship if they advance that far.

I know, Scrap's little editorial there was just reading like something out of the National Enquirer to me. :laugh:

Scrap Irony
03-25-2012, 05:39 PM
Now let's read the storyline if UK wins? :lol:

Against Louisville? Not much.

The whole thing?

The meme about Calipari not being a great coach finally goes away, but the shouts from the Peanut Gallery about his being "shady" or "dirty" intensify. Yahoo Sports' Pat Forde may camp out in front of Memorial Coliseum. Some national writer will opine about why this is the worst thing that has ever happened to amateur athletics. Kentucky will continue to rake in the top recruits. UK's 15th Final Four will bring at least one writer to discuss who the team of the aughts is. World Wide Wes will once again be a major story. (For whatever reason.) LeBron will tweet congratulations and don some sort of UK gear, confirming to many their hatred of LeBron and making him an honorary Cat to the BBN.

Pitino will slide permanently into that second tier of top coaches. Louisville has verifiable evidence once again that it's become the state's secondary program. (The two programs were, for all intents and purposes, even for a decade; that was before Calipari.) Secondary recruits (Top 30-70, those in the four star range) will be interested, but, by and large, the top ten guys will choose the "more fun" style of play at places like Kentucky, North Carolina, IU (at least with Crean there), and (if you're a guard) Duke. (Arizona might also be in the mix for those in the midwest and further to the Pacific.)

In short, pretty much what's happening now. Kentucky won't get much bounce from winning the NCAA, even. Thanks to the national media's motif about how much more talented UK is than anyone else (patently false), most observers feel that only a championship will suffice. While that's crazy, it's the perception. And, as Kentucky is (right now) the hottest ticket in CBB (in terms of passion, facilities, push, exposure, and NBA "cool factor"), a championship will only confirm it.

WMR
03-25-2012, 05:44 PM
Pretty fun reads. IDK if I agree with all of it, but I can see why you were in newspaper writing. ;)

Scrap Irony
03-25-2012, 05:49 PM
If UK wins they did what they were supposed to do. Louisville has nothing to lose in this game. The fans are happy with an over achieving postseason and recognize UK for the dominant team that they are. Not to mention the matchup problems UofL will have in the championship if they advance that far.

Shades of 1984?

Chip R
03-25-2012, 05:49 PM
I must say, UK looked extremely impressive today.

WVRed
03-25-2012, 11:52 PM
Back to the Final Four!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

I'm glad to be back but to be honest nowhere near as excited as last year. This year was expected and we got a cakewalk to the FF. Last year was an unbelievable run that made up for the previous years chokejob in the Elite Eight and was the first Final Four in 13 years.

This year making it to the Final Four, meh. Now lets win the whole thing and I'll be celebrating. I'm off work on Saturday and putting in to get Monday off.

jmac
03-26-2012, 12:16 AM
Many was saying we had one of thougher regions to start with. Of course they were going by the names on the jerseys like UConn- Duke etc.
I think UK just played at higher level and made the ISU and Baylor games look like a pushover. The way Indiana played and had been on a roll, if they had beat UK, it wouldnt have surprised me to see them win it all. Not to take anything away from the other teams remaining, but that game "could" prove to be UK's toughest in the tourney.

WMR
03-26-2012, 02:45 AM
So after 3 years, here is what Cal has given us:

100-14 (.877)
48-9 conference record
Elite 8
2 Final Fours
4 All-Americans
2 National Players of the Year
9 All-SEC players
9 NBA Draft picks
Tied Vanderbilt for highest APR in the SEC

Boston Red
03-26-2012, 07:09 AM
[QUOTE=jmac;2548608]


Memphis that is in one of the worst conferences in America

Man, there's a whole world of college basketball that you're missing out on, because Memphis is actually in one of the better conferences in America.

cumberlandreds
03-26-2012, 08:20 AM
I believe UK is hitting its peak at the absolute best time of the year. I could be wrong but I think they will take care of Louisville without a big problem. It may be close for a while because of the rivalry aspect of the game. But that's the only reason. UK has the advantage at every positon and its not that close at most of them. The game earlier this season looked closer than what it was. UL hit about 3 three pointers in the last 30 seconds or that would have been about a 15 point win. I think 15 is about right for this game too.
I'm sure most of the state will be in New Orleans by the end of the week. Lots of fights on Bourbon Street too between the UK/UL fans.

WVRed
03-26-2012, 10:50 AM
[QUOTE=WVRed;2548930]

Man, there's a whole world of college basketball that you're missing out on, because Memphis is actually in one of the better conferences in America.

I probably should have used past tense, but I was referring to Conference USA, not the Big East, although in about three years the conference will be a mirror image of itself thanks to its poor leadership. Cal was basically the king of his own little pond in Memphis when he was there.

WVRed
03-26-2012, 12:35 PM
On a side note, of all the stupid traditions to steal, this one is the worst:

http://a7.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-prn1/s320x320/550024_10150747340311628_607211627_11818903_938400 46_n.jpg

Boston Red
03-26-2012, 01:10 PM
You've got to be a pretty sheltered college basketball fan to think that C-USA is one of the worst leagues.

dabvu2498
03-26-2012, 01:26 PM
I probably should have used past tense, but I was referring to Conference USA, not the Big East, although in about three years the conference will be a mirror image of itself thanks to its poor leadership. Cal was basically the king of his own little pond in Memphis when he was there.

You mean once Louisville, Cincinnati and Marquette left the conference?

WMR
03-26-2012, 02:51 PM
Who can spot the flamboyant Baylor fan? This dude had me rolling.

http://gif.mocksession.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/BAYLOR-FAN1.gif

Assembly Hall
03-26-2012, 03:09 PM
You've got to be a pretty sheltered college basketball fan to think that C-USA is one of the worst leagues.


Hmmmmmmmmm.........Big Ten is better, SEC is better, ACC is better, Big East is better, Big 12 is better, Pac 12 is better.........Hmmmmmmmmm.....A-10 is better, Missouri Valley is better, West Coast is better, Mountain West is better, the Wac is better.....

WMR
03-26-2012, 03:19 PM
Hitler (Bobby Knight) talks about UK v IU for a second time... One of the better Hitler vids I've watched... Very funny...

Indiana-Kentucky Hitler Rant - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJzmvmkzzGw)

dabvu2498
03-26-2012, 03:20 PM
Hmmmmmmmmm.........Big Ten is better, SEC is better, ACC is better, Big East is better, Big 12 is better, Pac 12 is better.........Hmmmmmmmmm.....A-10 is better, Missouri Valley is better, West Coast is better, Mountain West is better, the Wac is better.....

Thing is, there are 32 D1 conferences. I'd say C-USA is in the top 1/3 of those conferences. Probably 10th or 11th.

WVRed
03-26-2012, 03:31 PM
You've got to be a pretty sheltered college basketball fan to think that C-USA is one of the worst leagues.

Not at all, I follow C-USA somewhat because Marshall plays there. Not to mention the conference is becoming a feeder-school for the Big East.

I think Assembly Hall summed it up, but the best school in C-USA was an eight seed that got upset in the first round. Southern Miss made it as a 9 seed and got knocked out as well.

Hoosier Red
03-26-2012, 03:57 PM
Hmmmmmmmmm.........Big Ten is better, SEC is better, ACC is better, Big East is better, Big 12 is better, Pac 12 is better.........Hmmmmmmmmm.....A-10 is better, Missouri Valley is better, West Coast is better, Mountain West is better, the Wac is better.....

I'd take issue that the Pac-12 was better. At least this past year. And I can't ever keep straight who's who in the WAC vs Mountain West but I'll allow that they were better.

dabvu2498
03-26-2012, 04:40 PM
I'd take issue that the Pac-12 was better. At least this past year. And I can't ever keep straight who's who in the WAC vs Mountain West but I'll allow that they were better.

Sagarin had C-USA 10th this season.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/bkc1112.htm

Had the PAC 12 6th, oddly.

WMR
03-26-2012, 04:47 PM
http://www.ukathletics.com/blog/2012/03/video-uk-receives-south-regional-trophy-cuts-down-nets.html

Video of UK players cutting down nets and talking in locker room.

Scrap Irony
03-26-2012, 07:31 PM
If Louisville somehow finds a way to beat Kentucky...

Calipari would lose luster across the nation. Those questions about Calipari's coaching acumen would become shouts. Some (idiotic) Kentucky fans would start calling for "new blood" at UK... \the whole meme about one-and-done recruits being not only bad for CBB (debateable) but likely to choke in a tournament would gain new traction...

Expect national coverage likening people in the state of Kentucky to redneck basketball savants. Expect to hear even more about Pitino "helping" Calipari gain the UMass job. Expect to hear all about Calipari's chippiness since then. Expect to hear about Calipari not being able to win the big one...

Ahem... By Gene Wojciechowski from ESPN:

Calipari almost has to return to Lexington with a national championship. If he doesn't, fairly or unfairly, the whispers will become shouts: His one-and-dones can't get it done … he needs to recruit players who aren't infatuated with the NBA … he can't win the big one.


Kentucky fans are as patient as 3-year-olds. They know what they want, when they want it and they're not interested in excuses. I saw a UK fan wearing a T-shirt that said it all: We Want Eight.


This will be Kentucky's second consecutive Final Four appearance under Calipari. You only get so many chances and at some point the one-and-done player model used by Calipari is going to suffer an ankle sprain.


Calipari and Pitino can't stand each other. They once were on friendly terms, but the relationship has deteriorated beyond recognition.


Pitino likes to remind people that he helped get Calipari hired at Rick's alma mater, UMass, in 1988. Calipari likes to remind people that the story isn't entirely true.

Not to break my own arm patting myself on the back, but, yeah. Told ya.

Assembly Hall
03-26-2012, 09:24 PM
Not at all, I follow C-USA somewhat because Marshall plays there. Not to mention the conference is becoming a feeder-school for the Big East.

I think Assembly Hall summed it up, but the best school in C-USA was an eight seed that got upset in the first round. Southern Miss made it as a 9 seed and got knocked out as well.

Thank you!!!!!!:thumbup: All this conference alignment has things all jacked up. C-USA used to be a top notch conference, then all the big time schools left save Memphis.

WVRed
03-26-2012, 10:35 PM
I'd take issue that the Pac-12 was better. At least this past year. And I can't ever keep straight who's who in the WAC vs Mountain West but I'll allow that they were better.

Funny you should mention the Mountain West since they are merging with C-USA. It's the only thing worse than the mess that the Big East (of the Pacific Ocean) is becoming.

WMR
03-27-2012, 05:45 PM
What's the line for the FF?

jmac
03-27-2012, 05:52 PM
Yesterday I heard UK was favored by 9.

dabvu2498
03-27-2012, 08:05 PM
Yesterday I heard UK was favored by 9.

I just saw 8.5.

Seems high, but I wouldn't bet it, either way.

dabvu2498
03-27-2012, 08:10 PM
Off topic, but even if you don't like women's basketball, you should still check out the UK-UConn ladies tonight. This game is being played at a high level and UK is fun to watch with their style of play.

dabvu2498
03-27-2012, 09:42 PM
Boy no put the jinx right on that game. Yuck.

The Operator
03-28-2012, 11:30 PM
Things are heating up! This is just priceless. :laugh:

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/tournament/2012/story/_/id/7747670/2012-final-four-louisville-cardinals-fan-punches-kentucky-wildcats-fan-dialysis-clinic


LOUISVILLE, Ky. -- Authorities say the Kentucky-Louisville basketball rivalry boiled over at a Kentucky dialysis clinic when one patient punched another during an argument about the teams.

Police Lt. Robert Swanigan said the altercation at the Georgetown clinic began Monday with a verbal exchange between Ed Wilson, a 68-year-old Kentucky fan, and Charles Taylor, a 71-year-old Louisville fan.

dabvu2498
03-28-2012, 11:40 PM
In all the UK-UofL hullabaloo, I feel compelled to point out that both the mayors of Louisville and Lexington are Vanderbilt graduates.

Just sayin.

Assembly Hall
03-29-2012, 04:03 AM
In all the UK-UofL hullabaloo, I feel compelled to point out that both the mayors of Louisville and Lexington are Vanderbilt graduates.

Just sayin.

LOL.......:thumbup:

Joseph
03-29-2012, 08:05 PM
In all the UK-UofL hullabaloo, I feel compelled to point out that both the mayors of Louisville and Lexington are Vanderbilt graduates.

Just sayin.

Vandy is a great school for leaders, if you want basketball look at UK or U of L. :)

WVRed
03-31-2012, 08:35 PM
Whew.

That's all.

Scrap Irony
03-31-2012, 08:50 PM
I thought Kentucky looked tight, particularly Doron Lamb. The (poor) charge call(s) on Kidd-Gilchrist masked his inability to hit any shot outside of a dunk. Were I KU/OSU, I'd play off him ten feet, daring him to take 15-footers. Terrence Jones struggled offensively. Teague had as poor a second half as he did a great first half.

That said, they beat a game Louisville team by eight points because Anthony Davis is absolutely a beast. He's as close to Danny Manning (or healthy Sam Bowie) today's game has.

WVRed
03-31-2012, 09:34 PM
I thought Kentucky looked tight, particularly Doron Lamb. The (poor) charge call(s) on Kidd-Gilchrist masked his inability to hit any shot outside of a dunk. Were I KU/OSU, I'd play off him ten feet, daring him to take 15-footers. Terrence Jones struggled offensively. Teague had as poor a second half as he did a great first half.

That said, they beat a game Louisville team by eight points because Anthony Davis is absolutely a beast. He's as close to Danny Manning (or healthy Sam Bowie) today's game has.

If I'm OSU/Kansas, I do everything you said. Davis isn't going to have another game like this against Sullinger or Withey.

That being said, I'm pulling for Kansas. Both teams can match Kentucky in the frontcourt, but Craft on Teague worries me and it could throw Kentucky's offense completely out of whack. Tyshawn Taylor is the safer bet.

(As I type this, Kansas is imploding, so it looks like the Buckeyes in another revenge game)

Revering4Blue
03-31-2012, 09:51 PM
Anthony Davis is absolutely a beast. He's as close to Danny Manning (or healthy Sam Bowie) today's game has.

Per Chad Ford tweet:


Hakeem Olajuwan as Soph: 28 mpg, 13.9 PPG, 11.4 RPG, 175 blk. Davis as Fresh: 32 mpg, 14.4 PPG, 10.2 RPG, 175 blk.

Scrap Irony
03-31-2012, 10:39 PM
Hadn't thought of Olajuwon.

Interesting comp.

WVRed
03-31-2012, 11:05 PM
If Kentucky wins, I wonder if there will be anything left of Lexington.

http://ksr.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/state-street.jpg

I'd expect this crap from WVU fans, but not Kentucky. We're better than this.

dabvu2498
03-31-2012, 11:11 PM
I'd expect this crap from WVU fans, but not Kentucky. We're better than this.

What would make you think that? There was all kinds of craziness in Lexington in 98. News van overturned, etc, etc, etc.

Scrap Irony
03-31-2012, 11:17 PM
I'd expect this crap from WVU fans, but not Kentucky. We're better than this.

Some are.

Most aren't.

traderumor
03-31-2012, 11:52 PM
I think UK will pound Kansas, but they'll have to play better than they did tonight. Davis was really the only thing going on in that game offensively, sort of like Robinson for Kansas. But I don't expect Kansas to match up well here if UK plays a good game.

Reds4Life
04-01-2012, 09:29 AM
I saw on the news about the couch burnings in Lexington.......classy. Been taking lessons from WVU?

Joseph
04-01-2012, 02:27 PM
It's certainly an embarrassing situation to say the least. Worst of all, it was done when we still haven't won the ultimate goal. I know it was Louisville, but beating the Cards does not a championship make. I hope the players aren't celebrating in such a fashion.

WMR
04-01-2012, 02:31 PM
AD should be able to get whatever he wants on Whitey.

Hopefully TJ comes to play.

Rebound and hit FTS will be key.

jmac
04-01-2012, 02:32 PM
It's certainly an embarrassing situation to say the least. Worst of all, it was done when we still haven't won the ultimate goal. I know it was Louisville, but beating the Cards does not a championship make. I hope the players aren't celebrating in such a fashion.

True, my thoughts exactly. I just wish fans would act like what coaches tell players : "you've been here before".
I was telling someone who was talking about this the other day, a true KY fan doesnt do this after winning the title. A true UK fan would simply celebrate by asking "Okay...who have we got coming in next year ?" :D

jmac
04-01-2012, 02:34 PM
If Kentucky wins, I wonder if there will be anything left of Lexington.

http://ksr.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/state-street.jpg

I'd expect this crap from WVU fans, but not Kentucky. We're better than this.

True and the of then course "all" Ky fans get lumped together with this kind of stuff by the national media.

WMR
04-01-2012, 02:36 PM
College kids acting like drunken idiots is nothing new. Hopefully lawbreakers got arrested.

Scrap Irony
04-01-2012, 05:55 PM
AD should be able to get whatever he wants on Whitey.

Hopefully TJ comes to play.

Rebound and hit FTS will be key.

Spot on. IMO, Kentucky had the advantage at three of the five starting spots and a huge advantage on the bench.

Only Robinson is demonstrably better than his counterpart (Jones)-- and that's only true 75% of the time.

Mutaman
04-01-2012, 08:12 PM
True and the of then course "all" Ky fans get lumped together with this kind of stuff by the national media.


Where has the "national media" done this? Looks to me like the media reported the story and folks came to their own conclusions.

jmac
04-01-2012, 08:40 PM
Where has the "national media" done this? Looks to me like the media reported the story and folks came to their own conclusions.
The national media is the yahoo sports...espn's -Abc's etc. Point wasnt them reporting it as yes, it is a story.
The point is many people thru out the land have their idea of how UK fans are. Example....if UK doesnt win trophy every year,we arent happy etc. Most are like me in the fact, I like UK being relevant every year which we went thru a period where we werent.
This instance is something else for the Vitale's, Forde's etc to use to bash, as there is only a "handful" of fans as a whole who would riot like this.

dabvu2498
04-01-2012, 08:45 PM
The national media is the yahoo sports...espn's -Abc's etc. Point wasnt them reporting it as yes, it is a story.
The point is many people thru out the land have their idea of how UK fans are. Example....if UK doesnt win trophy every year,we arent happy etc. Most are like me in the fact, I like UK being relevant every year which we went thru a period where we werent.
This instance is something else for the Vitale's, Forde's etc to use to bash, as there is only a "handful" of fans as a whole who would riot like this.

On the flip side of that, 364 days a year, you hear nearly every national media type fawning over what a great (and they are) fan base UK has.

Mutaman
04-01-2012, 10:24 PM
This instance is something else for the Vitale's, Forde's etc to use to bash, as there is only a "handful" of fans as a whole who would riot like this.


27 arrests? I don't think that "only a "handful" " defense is going to play very strongly in prime time.

WVRed
04-01-2012, 10:35 PM
College kids acting like drunken idiots is nothing new. Hopefully lawbreakers got arrested.

I don't disagree. There was a video on YouTube of UK fans out celebrating in Lexington that was rather peaceful. People were honking horns and screaming GO BIG BLUE! and that's the way it should be.

What shouldn't happen is the following:

Overturning police cars
Overturning news vans
Vandalism
Public bonfires (Leave the couch burnings to WVU)

I use WVU as the example because I live in West Virginia, but this could apply to a lot of other schools. The difference is that we've been there before. Seven times to be exact. Granted its been 14 years since winning it all, but there's a lot of truth to that saying.

jmac
04-01-2012, 10:41 PM
27 arrests? I don't think that "only a "handful" " defense is going to play very strongly in prime time.
Most on here know what I mean.Talking of # of Wildcat fans across the nation "not" just the Lexington episode but dont plan on arguing with ya on your play on my words. :wave:

WMR
04-01-2012, 10:43 PM
27 out of several thousands IS, comparatively, a handful.

Of course, there is also the bad behavior which went unpunished, of which there was surely some.

jmac
04-02-2012, 07:23 AM
Shabazz Muhammad & Nerlens Noel to announce on April 12th. I hear Noel is a good possibility and Shabazz leaning toward UCLA. You never know though...may get both or may get neither.
Bennett is a guy I definitely hope signs.
BTW...I know current team plays tonight so this is only for future reference. :laugh:

Assembly Hall
04-02-2012, 09:22 AM
Shabazz Muhammad & Nerlens Noel to announce on April 12th. I hear Noel is a good possibility and Shabazz leaning toward UCLA. You never know though...may get both or may get neither.
Bennett is a guy I definitely hope signs.
BTW...I know current team plays tonight so this is only for future reference. :laugh:

Just curious as to what the feeling is as far as how many players UK is gonna lose after the season.

Scrap Irony
04-02-2012, 10:40 AM
Six, IMO. Wiltjer will come back to start at PF. At PG, Harrow will have a year in the system. That leaves three starting spots for freshmen.

I suspect Noel and Muhamed will sign with UK, and signees Goowin and Poythress will fill out the starting five and slide to the six man role, with C Cauley and G/F Hood rounding out a thin (what's new?) eight-man bench.

Depending on who comes back for other teams, this could be a Cat team that really struggles early, but could be (again, depending on selfishness and ability to play together) a tough out in the tournament.

PG Harrow
2G Muhamed
SF Goodwin/ Poythress
PF Witjer
C Noel

WVRed
04-02-2012, 10:58 AM
Six, IMO. Wiltjer will come back to start at PF. At PG, Harrow will have a year in the system. That leaves three starting spots for freshmen.

I suspect Noel and Muhamed will sign with UK, and signees Goowin and Poythress will fill out the starting five and slide to the six man role, with C Cauley and G/F Hood rounding out a thin (what's new?) eight-man bench.

Depending on who comes back for other teams, this could be a Cat team that really struggles early, but could be (again, depending on selfishness and ability to play together) a tough out in the tournament.

PG Harrow
2G Muhamed
SF Goodwin/ Poythress
PF Witjer
C Noel

You hit the nail on the head. I also wouldn't be shocked if they get Anthony Bennett to mix in with Wiltjer. Bennett is undersized but would be more of a defensive presence than Wiltjer and they could move Kyle to SF even in some situations.

My problem with next years team is that there is no veteran leadership. In the Indiana game (Sweet 16), when Kentucky started to play up-tempo and kept pushing at a ridiculous rate, Darius Miller was the calming influence. They won't have that next year.

As of right now, I'd say they are losing five to the draft. Davis is for sure gone. MKG said he was coming back but he is likely a top 5 pick and Cal won't let him turn that down. Jones will likely be a lottery pick. Lamb and Teague will be mid to late first round. Darius Miller will go in the second round and I wouldn't be surprised to see Eloy Vargas get an invite to a NBA camp.

I think the team will be better than people expect, especially once they hit SEC play. I'll hit on this more in the Ohio State thread, but this year is going to be the mass exodus not just for Kentucky, but everybody. Last year the NBA lockout had kids spooked into going back to school (Terrence Jones, Jared Sullinger, Harrison Barnes), but this year with the labor situation settled, its going to be a LOADED NBA draft and a likely bare college basketball scene. I see Kentucky being a top 5 team next year due to parity and nothing else if they get Bazz and Noel.

WMR
04-02-2012, 01:51 PM
I'm expecting Harrow to come in pretty advanced next season. He'll essentially be a Junior in terms of experience and has had an extremely long period to play against great talent and learn Cal's system inside and out. I'm sure Cal is going to count on him to assume a leadership role.

His body could actually keep him at UK three years. He would be absolutely unreal by the time he left if this were to transpire.

TeamSelig
04-02-2012, 03:55 PM
What do you guys know about Goodwin/Polythress/Cauley? I just watched a youtube mix of them... my initial thoughts:

- All three appeared to be pretty athletic
- Goodwin/Polythress are good at driving to the hoop
- I didn't see any shooting. Can they shoot?
- How good is Cauley projected to be? He didn't look that impressive tbh. He was a foot taller than his opponents which led to some easy baskets, etc. but nothing that stood out to me.


I think we will lose:

Miller (SR; Mid-Late 2nd)
Vargas (SR; Undrafted)
Davis (#1 pick)
Jones (12-16)
MKG (Top 5 pick)
Teague (14-18)
Lamb (18-24)

I'm kinda hoping Lamb comes back for another season.

WMR
04-02-2012, 04:40 PM
Goodwin and Poythress can both shoot.

Goodwin will also be our backup PG next year assuming Lamb and Teague go pro. He has GREAT handles and loves to pass the ball.

Cauley is a project but has a very high ceiling, IMO.

jmac
04-02-2012, 06:04 PM
It wouldnt surprise me to see Teague and Lamb and maybe even MKG come back if they lose tonight. If they win, I doubt it.

jmac
04-02-2012, 06:06 PM
Cauley is a project but has a very high ceiling, IMO.

Cauley like Wiljter are the kind of guys who could stick around awhile. Poole is another one like this Cal brought in but he flew the coop as the saying goes.

Assembly Hall
04-02-2012, 06:59 PM
You guys think Teague is gonna leave? I dont think him or Lamb are ready.

WVRed
04-02-2012, 10:22 PM
20 more minutes til number 8!

I just hope we can keep it up if Kansas turns it on like they did against tOSU and UNC.

WMR
04-02-2012, 11:40 PM
yes!!!!!! GR8NESS

YES YESYESYESYESYESYESY

improbus
04-02-2012, 11:46 PM
Woooooooooooooooooo!

improbus
04-02-2012, 11:48 PM
I ran about 10 silent laps around the house. Didn't want to wake the kids.

improbus
04-03-2012, 12:08 AM
Never actually watched "One Shining Moment" before. It might be the dumbest thing Ive ever seen. Only CBS.

Now Jim Nantz gets to focus on his true passion, the Masters. He's already on a helicopter to the Butler Cabin.

WVRed
04-03-2012, 12:35 AM
What a ride.

I've loved this season. Perfect way to cap it off tonight. I really don't care if something ever does happen that this would get vacated as the NCAA is so hypocritical as is.

This is the best UK thread to post on even with the visitors from other teams. I post on other UK message boards and I enjoy the other UK posters. This is the best time for celebration!

WMR
04-03-2012, 12:49 AM
I see Javy lurking...

we did it buddy. :D :party:

Javy Pornstache
04-03-2012, 12:49 AM
Just strolling in for the first time in a while. Anything interesting happen tonight? :)

Javy Pornstache
04-03-2012, 12:50 AM
I see Javy lurking...

we did it buddy. :D :party:

Yes sir. Hell of a day, Bat Cats go #1 and we extend Joey. But this tops it all!

WMR
04-03-2012, 12:51 AM
Yes sir. Hell of a day, Bat Cats go #1 and we extend Joey. But this tops it all!

Yessir it does.

Such a great feeling after 14 years...

The Operator
04-03-2012, 12:56 AM
Have you gone out for any of the celebration WMR?

I thought about it, but watching on TV seems good enough, haha. Heck, it's pretty crazy even where I'm at over by Richmond Rd/New Circle.

WMR
04-03-2012, 12:57 AM
In retrospect, it was an incredibly satisfying run over some really hated rivals.

Beating IU and UL in the same tourney on the way to a championship is panacea for a UK fan.

Assembly Hall
04-03-2012, 12:59 AM
In retrospect, it was an incredibly satisfying run over some really hated rivals.

Beating IU and UL in the same tourney on the way to a championship is panacea for a UK fan.

Congrats fellas.......next year is my turn!!!!!!!!!;)

WMR
04-03-2012, 01:00 AM
Congrats fellas.......next year is my turn!!!!!!!!!;)


If all your guys stay combined with the incoming class, there will definitely be FF expectations next year in Bloomington.

WMR
04-03-2012, 01:03 AM
Have you gone out for any of the celebration WMR?

I thought about it, but watching on TV seems good enough, haha. Heck, it's pretty crazy even where I'm at over by Richmond Rd/New Circle.


There was a party in my neighborhood. Guessing lots of people calling in sick tomorrow. :lol:

The Operator
04-03-2012, 01:05 AM
There was a party in my neighborhood. Guessing lots of people calling in sick tomorrow. :lol:Yea, I'm glad I don't have any Tuesday classes, haha. Not like anyone will be there anyway after a night like this, but still. :D

Guess I picked a pretty good year to move to Lexington and enroll at UK. Think Coach Cal might give me a paid position on his staff, ya know, good luck charm or something like that? :lol: