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WVRed
04-03-2012, 01:07 AM
If what I think happens next year happens (Bazz and Noel), we could very well be back in the Final Four discussion again. We have a sick recruiting class, and even if we lose everybody, college basketball as a whole will be down next year.

What I think will be hard to duplicate with future teams is the senior leadership. Cal's teams at Kentucky have had a glue guy and this year it was Darius Miller. Last year Harrellson, the year before Stevenson, Harris, and to a lesser extent Patterson. Next years team won't have a senior leader, and in situations where you need a calming influence, it could cost Kentucky some games.

I think we could be back easily to the Final Four next year, or we could get bounced in the Sweet 16 for that reason.

WVRed
04-03-2012, 01:08 AM
Yea, I'm glad I don't have any Tuesday classes, haha. Not like anyone will be there anyway after a night like this, but still. :D

Guess I picked a pretty good year to move to Lexington and enroll at UK. Think Coach Cal might give me a paid position on his staff, ya know, good luck charm or something like that? :lol:

On a side note, Eli Capiluto probably didn't make a whole lot of friends the past couple of days.

WMR
04-03-2012, 01:08 AM
Give me Bazz, Noel, and Bennett and call it a class. :D

WMR
04-03-2012, 01:10 AM
And the Harrison twins in 2013.

WOW, those two kids can BALL. :eek:

Javy Pornstache
04-03-2012, 01:13 AM
I've been hearing for some time that Noel and Bazz are both ours, and Bennett isn't too far-fetched either. We're in real good shape for the Harrison twins, WMR.

The Operator
04-03-2012, 01:16 AM
On a side note, Eli Capiluto probably didn't make a whole lot of friends the past couple of days.Yea, he sent out an email to all of us and I won't post the whole thing, but his final statement was "Don't be stupid!" Thanks, Mr. President!

George Foster
04-03-2012, 01:53 AM
What a ride.

I've loved this season. Perfect way to cap it off tonight. I really don't care if something ever does happen that this would get vacated as the NCAA is so hypocritical as is.

This is the best UK thread to post on even with the visitors from other teams. I post on other UK message boards and I enjoy the other UK posters. This is the best time for celebration!

Just got back to the hotel from the superdome....what a great experience. Glad I came. Would not trade this day for anything and seeing a national championship in person. New Orleans is crazy...raining but crazy. Got to drive home in 5 hours....this will make the 12 hour drive sweeter.....go cats...go reds.....its officially baseball season.

Johnny Footstool
04-03-2012, 02:44 AM
Congratulations, UK. You had the thoroughbreds, and you rode them to the championship. KU made it ugly in the 2nd half, like always, but you made enough shots, and played *great* D. You deserve the crown.

WMR
04-03-2012, 02:47 AM
Classy post, JF. KU is a blue-blood just like us and Self is a helluva coach.

Johnny Footstool
04-03-2012, 02:52 AM
Seriously, you guys earned it. We couldn't make layups, mostly because 50% of them were blocked. It was a good game, and the better team won.

WMR
04-03-2012, 02:58 AM
http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/57448/kentuckys-recruiting-pitch-is-complete

Great article by Dave Telep.

WMR
04-03-2012, 04:47 AM
This is the video...

http://www.ukcat8fan.blogspot.com/2011_06_01_archive.html

"Written in the Stars"

WMR
04-03-2012, 05:42 AM
I joined this site in 2005........ I have made some of my favorite wildcat friends on this board....... WOW this feels too good. I love UK.

8 National Championships

improbus
04-03-2012, 07:22 AM
I haven't had a team I love and watch everyday win a title since the 1990 Reds (and I was ten at the time). Im so glad I choose UK for grad school. I made some great friends and I also got Anthony Davis in my life.

Assembly Hall
04-03-2012, 09:08 AM
Congrats on the trophy again fellas. I got to tell you guys that due to rivalry issues I disdain UK. But in all honesty, I loved watching them play this year. They looked like they had been playing ball together all their lives. Not just in the tournament, but all year. Their composure, team play, and pure talent was something to behold.

cumberlandreds
04-03-2012, 09:40 AM
Awesome is all I can say. I am on Vacation in the Outer Banks and this certainly made my vacation better!

Hoosier Red
04-03-2012, 10:22 AM
I joined this site in 2005........ I have made some of my favorite wildcat friends on this board....... WOW this feels too good. I love UK.

8 National Championships

Congrats. Well earned.

When I "committed" to Indiana, they were tied with Kentucky at 5 National Championships a piece. Since then two things have happened, 1) I've gotten old and 2) Kentucky has pulled away. Here's hoping we can narrow the gap in coming years.

WildcatFan
04-03-2012, 10:26 AM
Congrats on the trophy again fellas. I got to tell you guys that due to rivalry issues I disdain UK. But in all honesty, I loved watching them play this year. They looked like they had been playing ball together all their lives. Not just in the tournament, but all year. Their composure, team play, and pure talent was something to behold.

A couple of my good friends are IU fans, and we've grown a mutual respect this year. I'll be pulling for you all next year--until you meet the cats, of course.

WildcatFan
04-03-2012, 10:29 AM
Oh, and also...CHAMPS BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was fortunate enough to be at the part on Euclid and Woodland and over on Limestone, and it was nuts. My hand's sore from high fives. I'll remember this season forever; here's to repeatin9.

Assembly Hall
04-03-2012, 10:44 AM
A couple of my good friends are IU fans, and we've grown a mutual respect this year. I'll be pulling for you all next year--until you meet the cats, of course.

:thumbup: I hear ya man. Not only is it a good rivalry, but there was a time when both schools used it as a measuring stick to see how good they really were. You guys have had the better of it for 20 years. I look forward to seeing more games like the two we had this year. Go Big Red and dont drink too much champagne my "furry" friend!!!!!!!!!;)

cincrazy
04-03-2012, 12:39 PM
Congrats Wildcat fans. What a truly awesome college basketball season for you guys. That team was flat-out DOMINANT. Truthfully, a part of me is relieved OSU lost to Kansas, but I feared the outcome of the finals with UK. You were clearly the best team all season in college basketball, and on behalf of Buckeye Nation, I tip my cap to you.

dabvu2498
04-03-2012, 01:02 PM
My dad and brother are over the moon today. Good for them and the rest of my UK fan friends.

Really liked the way those kids handled their business. Certainly one of the top ten best college teams in my memory.

jmac
04-03-2012, 06:32 PM
Many was saying we had one of thougher regions to start with. Of course they were going by the names on the jerseys like UConn- Duke etc.
I think UK just played at higher level and made the ISU and Baylor games look like a pushover. The way Indiana played and had been on a roll, if they had beat UK, it wouldnt have surprised me to see them win it all. Not to take anything away from the other teams remaining, but that game "could" prove to be UK's toughest in the tourney.
I think looking back this came to be true. The IU game was toughest.
I have really enjoyed watching this group play team ball unlike any we have seen in a long time.
The freshmen were super and didnt play like freshmen and Miller finished off a great career that got better every year.
Lamb was solid all season.
Yeah Jones was inconsistent some but he played a major part of this team and really took to the defensive side of things.
They were a very fun team to watch ! :)

jmac
04-03-2012, 06:36 PM
:thumbup: I hear ya man. Not only is it a good rivalry, but there was a time when both schools used it as a measuring stick to see how good they really were. You guys have had the better of it for 20 years. I look forward to seeing more games like the two we had this year. Go Big Red and dont drink too much champagne my "furry" friend!!!!!!!!!;)
I heard today ESPN'S early rankings for next season has IU # 1 and U of L #2. I am not sure about U of L as I dont know their recruits but IU certainly should be mentioned among top ranked teams.
UK is # 4 but all these subject to change naturally. ;)

Assembly Hall
04-04-2012, 06:20 AM
I heard today ESPN'S early rankings for next season has IU # 1 and U of L #2. I am not sure about U of L as I dont know their recruits but IU certainly should be mentioned among top ranked teams.
UK is # 4 but all these subject to change naturally. ;)

I saw that on ESPN. That UK ranking is based on Lamb or Teague(or both returning. However, I did see one on CBS that had the 'Cats #1 based on everyone leaving and landing those uncommitted prized recruits.

WVRed
04-04-2012, 11:23 AM
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/18274517/ridiculously-early-top-25-and-one-calipari-kentucky-reload-are-no-1

They are speculating that Kentucky will land all three of Bennett, Bazz, and Noel.

IMO, it's UK, Louisville, and Indiana in any interchangeable order you want next season.

Assembly Hall
04-04-2012, 12:26 PM
http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/18274517/ridiculously-early-top-25-and-one-calipari-kentucky-reload-are-no-1

They are speculating that Kentucky will land all three of Bennett, Bazz, and Noel.

IMO, it's UK, Louisville, and Indiana in any interchangeable order you want next season.

I am with ya..........dont know how things are gonna shake out at Florida. But if things stay the way they are I might throw them in the mix. Same thing with Michigan.

dabvu2498
04-04-2012, 03:32 PM
I'm going to throw this out there, but I don't want to be labled a "hater" because I ain't... Just curious of there's any smoke to this fire...

Heard from a fairly reliable source that UK has actually backed off Muhammed for several reasons, which I could get into. The one that I feel comfortable getting into in public is that the staff thinks one or two guys may come back next year and that could create a bit of a burden on the staff to get them all appropriate PT.

I know that if he wants to come to UK, they'll take him of course, but supposedly he's not priority #1 right now.

Just what I heard. :)

5TimeWSChamps
04-04-2012, 06:22 PM
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

WMR
04-04-2012, 06:23 PM
UK will not back off Shabazz. Neither will UCLA or Duke.

jmac
04-04-2012, 06:30 PM
I'm going to throw this out there, but I don't want to be labled a "hater" because I ain't... Just curious of there's any smoke to this fire...

Heard from a fairly reliable source that UK has actually backed off Muhammed for several reasons, which I could get into. The one that I feel comfortable getting into in public is that the staff thinks one or two guys may come back next year and that could create a bit of a burden on the staff to get them all appropriate PT.

I know that if he wants to come to UK, they'll take him of course, but supposedly he's not priority #1 right now.

Just what I heard. :)
There are some things circulating that maybe at least 2 will return. It will be interesting how it plays out in the next few days. Davis kept referring to April 29th but isnt the NBA declare day earlier ?

WMR
04-04-2012, 06:35 PM
I sort of believe they'll all go pro. I guess Lamb or Teague would be most likely to stick around.

WVRed
04-04-2012, 10:42 PM
WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk

A little late to the party, don't ya think. ;)

dabvu2498
04-04-2012, 10:45 PM
There are some things circulating that maybe at least 2 will return. It will be interesting how it plays out in the next few days. Davis kept referring to April 29th but isnt the NBA declare day earlier ?

They have to declare by the 10th, but they can "pull back" by the 29th, I believe.

jmac
04-04-2012, 11:37 PM
They have to declare by the 10th, but they can "pull back" by the 29th, I believe.

Gotcha.Thanks ! ;)

WVRed
04-04-2012, 11:45 PM
I sort of believe they'll all go pro. I guess Lamb or Teague would be most likely to stick around.

Teague would have the most to benefit by returning. Lamb could as well but I don't think Lamb will ever improve his game enough. He's a 6'4 SG when most players at that position are 6'6-6'7.

I'd like to see Lamb return and be the starting PG. I think he could do it and likely improve his stock that way:

PG-Lamb
SG-Muhammad
SF-Goodwin/Poythress
PF-Wiltjer
C-Noel

Assembly Hall
04-05-2012, 07:46 AM
I am starting to hear that Bazz might have some eligibility issues. Anybody else hearing that?

improbus
04-05-2012, 08:50 AM
I am starting to hear that Bazz might have some eligibility issues. Anybody else hearing that?

Buzz seems to have some question marks. But, trusting recruiting news is an awfully dangerous pursuit.

Assembly Hall
04-05-2012, 08:59 AM
Buzz seems to have some question marks. But, trusting recruiting news is an awfully dangerous pursuit.

LOL........I hear ya. But I saw on a couple of boards where the UCLA fans were saying that he hadnt passed the SAT/ACT requirements yet. What if he is ineligible at the D-1 level his freshman year?

TeamSelig
04-05-2012, 11:35 AM
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/220296/Knicks_Targeting_Calipari

dabvu2498
04-05-2012, 02:16 PM
Supposedly Oriakhi is meeting with Calipari soon.

He'd have to get an exception from the SEC, which doesn't normall allow transfers with only one year of eligibility.

Also, he's allegedly demanding 30 minutes of PT. Yikes.

The Operator
04-05-2012, 02:40 PM
Cal will stay at UK if he knows what's good for him. The NBA landscape is littered with the corpses of college coaches who tried to do their thing at the next level.

He's basically a god in Lexington. He better think long and hard before leaving such a sweet gig.

jmac
04-05-2012, 07:27 PM
Cal will stay at UK if he knows what's good for him. The NBA landscape is littered with the corpses of college coaches who tried to do their thing at the next level.

He's basically a god in Lexington. He better think long and hard before leaving such a sweet gig.

Yeah and if he ever leaves...the job opening will not be there later. Just ask Pitino.
People talk of coaches leaving for a 5 or 7 year NBA contract etc. All it takes is losses or a feud with star player and you hit the door.
No he wont win a title every year but Cal can recruit and be a Top 10 team year in and year out in Lexington.

WVRed
04-05-2012, 11:46 PM
Yeah and if he ever leaves...the job opening will not be there later. Just ask Pitino.
People talk of coaches leaving for a 5 or 7 year NBA contract etc. All it takes is losses or a feud with star player and you hit the door.
No he wont win a title every year but Cal can recruit and be a Top 10 team year in and year out in Lexington.

RealGM.com is a couple days late to the party. Cal's already said hes staying in Lexington.

The Knicks are a prime example of everything you posted though. I would love the idea of Cal coaching Jeremy Lin, but could you imagine him and Carmelo Anthony?

5TimeWSChamps
04-06-2012, 12:25 AM
This is a great article from an OSU fan/blogger

http://www.elevenwarriors.com/2012/04/all-hail-king-calipari-breaker-of-haters?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+ElevenWarriors+%28Eleven+Warr iors%29

5TimeWSChamps
04-06-2012, 12:26 AM
Also, Anthony Davis is coming up on Jimmy Kimmel now

dabvu2498
04-06-2012, 04:07 AM
The Knicks are a prime example of everything you posted though. I would love the idea of Cal coaching Jeremy Lin, but could you imagine him and Carmelo Anthony?


Something to remember, though... Calipari and Carmelo have a very close mutual friend... Mr. William Wesley.

Hoosier Red
04-06-2012, 09:13 AM
I agree with the eleven warriors to a point. Though I chuckle at their reference to "noted Calipari hater" when it was noted by a UK blog.

I think the holier than thou critics are overly sanctimonious. But I also believe that college basketball would be a lesser product if every team was built on 1 and 2 year players. There are many fans(myself included) who love college basketball but are indifferent at best to the NBA. There are a lot of reasons for that, but one of them is no doubt the connection people feel to their university,(even if they didn't specifically attend), and when a player basically does a free agent one year contract, the connection is lessened.

It's not a big deal to the overall structure if you're talking about maybe one player per year. But if every team had even one player every year who was a one and done, it would not only drop the quality of play, but it would lower the connection.

Fortunately, there isn't that large of a supply of players both willing and able to go from high school to the NBA in one short year. Kentucky happened to have 3 of those along with at least one other player who was able but decided to come back for his sophomore year. Which gets to why everyone bemoans the supposed "lack of integrity." Everyone who's not Kentucky is jealous that Kentucky is getting a lion's share of these very talented players.

To take the ridiculous moralizing out of the argument; think of it this way. If the Reds decided to basically sign the top free agent players every year but the roster turned over 75% every year, the Reds might be a good team, but really the fans would lose some connection to the team. Part of the joy of being a sports fan is seeing a player grow and succeed. Part of the joy is being there through the down times and appreciating the successes that much more. If you bring in great players but they stay for only one year, you don't really get that.

So if you do that, the only solution is that you must win. And win big.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-06-2012, 09:24 AM
Congrats to UK. Great team. Great season.

Another coulda/shoulda/woulda/what if season for my Buckeyes. I'm used to it.

improbus
04-06-2012, 10:31 AM
I agree with the eleven warriors to a point. Though I chuckle at their reference to "noted Calipari hater" when it was noted by a UK blog.

I think the holier than thou critics are overly sanctimonious. But I also believe that college basketball would be a lesser product if every team was built on 1 and 2 year players. There are many fans(myself included) who love college basketball but are indifferent at best to the NBA. There are a lot of reasons for that, but one of them is no doubt the connection people feel to their university,(even if they didn't specifically attend), and when a player basically does a free agent one year contract, the connection is lessened.

It's not a big deal to the overall structure if you're talking about maybe one player per year. But if every team had even one player every year who was a one and done, it would not only drop the quality of play, but it would lower the connection.

Fortunately, there isn't that large of a supply of players both willing and able to go from high school to the NBA in one short year. Kentucky happened to have 3 of those along with at least one other player who was able but decided to come back for his sophomore year. Which gets to why everyone bemoans the supposed "lack of integrity." Everyone who's not Kentucky is jealous that Kentucky is getting a lion's share of these very talented players.

To take the ridiculous moralizing out of the argument; think of it this way. If the Reds decided to basically sign the top free agent players every year but the roster turned over 75% every year, the Reds might be a good team, but really the fans would lose some connection to the team. Part of the joy of being a sports fan is seeing a player grow and succeed. Part of the joy is being there through the down times and appreciating the successes that much more. If you bring in great players but they stay for only one year, you don't really get that.

So if you do that, the only solution is that you must win. And win big.

Every time I hear an argument like this, I can't help but think of the selfishness of college sports fans (which I exhibit too every time I talk about UK, OU or my other affiliated institutions).

We have an undying loyalty to our school where we crafted four (or more) years of amazing (and sometimes hazy) memories. Our love and loyalty to the institution is almost always deep and our need for the institution as a gateway to the professional world is great. The students equation is very logical and makes sense. We provide the school with money and they provide us the the skills, maturity, and diploma needed to make make our way in the professional world.

But, the equation for a high profile football or basketball player is very different and much more lopsided (in favor of the school and fans). We fans get glory and hundreds of hours of entertainment out of the equation in return for our money. The coach can make millions of dollars a year. The school gets money and a much higher Q score.

What does the elite athlete get? What does Kentucky provide Michael Kidd Gilchrist? Fame? An education? The opportunity to make millions? Who got more out of his experience at UK, Gilchrist or the fans? He would make it into the NBA whether he went to college, played in Europe, went to the D League, or played for a year at a New Jersey YMCA (LeBron and Kobe did just fine without going to college.) So, how is that equation going to get better for Kidd Gilchrist if he has to stay two or three years? Would he improve more by staying at UK and playing inferior competition in college? Is Anthony Davis going to learn to score in the post by playing 6'8 centers? We complain that players should stay in college to improve their game. That seems like a highly flawed and selfish argument. Shouldn't we have sports academies instead? Shouldn't Anthony Davis be going to post player school instead of UK? What would happen if we had changed the basketball upbringing of Ricky Rubio and John Wall. Put John Wall on a team with J.C. Navarro, Jose Calderon, and the Gasol brothers at 16 instead of playing AAU. Put him on Barcelona with seasoned pros instead of DeMarcus Cousins and DeAndre Liggins and doesn't he have to become a different player? How is college benefitting these guys (even if it is 2 or 3 or even 4 years).

The final part of the equation is this. College sports are the gateway to the professional ranks (especially in basketball and football). Why? Is there any logical reason to connect higher education with a path to the pros? What do the two have to do with one another? Doesn't the connection lessen the both of them? Do we really believe that college sports are the best way to train athletes for the professional ranks? College sports are the means to get to the pros for two reasons.

1) They always have been
2) We (the fans) want it that way

What if our college sports looked like what they are purported to be? Actual Amatuer sports? What if we took all the pro prospects out of college hoops and college football and truly made it amateur instead of a means to an end? Would we watch? Would the product be so poor that we would lose interest?

Now, here is the dilemma. I love college sports. My arms still hurt from the amount of fist pumps I did during UK and OU's runs during the tournament. I am still furious with DJ Cooper for going 3 for 20. But here's the problem I run into: I'm not particularly sure why. It is an inferior product to the pros. I (and everyone else) knows that it is corrupt and flawed. But I still follow. Why? Is it loyalty to my schools? If so, then why am I drawn to games that have nothing to do with them? Is it the love of competition? Maybe... I don't know. All I know is that I'm basking in UK's title and I'm going to collect some money from my NCAA pool... I hate myself.

dabvu2498
04-06-2012, 12:11 PM
Every time I hear an argument like this, I can't help but think of the selfishness of college sports fans (which I exhibit too every time I talk about UK, OU or my other affiliated institutions).

We have an undying loyalty to our school where we crafted four (or more) years of amazing (and sometimes hazy) memories. Our love and loyalty to the institution is almost always deep and our need for the institution as a gateway to the professional world is great. The students equation is very logical and makes sense. We provide the school with money and they provide us the the skills, maturity, and diploma needed to make make our way in the professional world.


Good post, improbus. Some excellent points.

One thing I'd disagree with is the idea that "fans" think the way alumni do. Even alumni-fans.

I love my alma mater, both as an athletic program and an academic institution. I think one issue is that there are so many fans (even alumni-fans) who could care less or care far less about their schools as academic institutions than as athletic programs. They care about w's and l's above all.

I have no problem with a kid like John Wall, who made the most of his time as a UK student-athlete both on and off the court. He had a college experience. He wanted a college experience. And he got a good one, even if it was only for 7-8 months. I will have no problem with John Jenkins leaving my alma mater after 3 years without a degree for the same reasons (although I hope he comes back for his senior season and I'm relatively certain he'll find a way to complete his degree). The kid wanted and worked for a quality college experience, on the court, in the classroom and as a place for growing into an adult. And there are many others we could point to who have left early who have done things the right way while they were enrolled in school.

My issue is that quite a few of the "one-and-doners" (not just UK kids at all) have no business near a college campus. They're going to college because, more or less, they have to. I think kids should be able to enter the draft after high school if they so desire.

The way I view my alma mater is this: We, as alumni and fans, deserve a competitive team on the field/court because the resources are there for the coaches to bring in kids who can compete at the appropriate level (can't have always said this about Vandy football, but that is changing). But at the end of the day, the school also has to get kids who will be capable and worthy of having the same degree us alumni have. I guess I can't get over the idea that that's the whole point of having the school in the first place. If my alma mater competes at a fairly high level while remembering that it's more important to bring in and turn out quality human beings who make the most of the opportunites given them in college, I have no issues. That does not sound like too much to ask. :D

I also agree with you that the fans and schools are getting more out of the student-athletes' time there than the kids are. Are schools really fulfilling their missions by using these kids and allowing themselves to be used to a certain extent?

improbus
04-06-2012, 02:06 PM
Good post, improbus. Some excellent points.

One thing I'd disagree with is the idea that "fans" think the way alumni do. Even alumni-fans.

I love my alma mater, both as an athletic program and an academic institution. I think one issue is that there are so many fans (even alumni-fans) who could care less or care far less about their schools as academic institutions than as athletic programs. They care about w's and l's above all.

I have no problem with a kid like John Wall, who made the most of his time as a UK student-athlete both on and off the court. He had a college experience. He wanted a college experience. And he got a good one, even if it was only for 7-8 months. I will have no problem with John Jenkins leaving my alma mater after 3 years without a degree for the same reasons (although I hope he comes back for his senior season and I'm relatively certain he'll find a way to complete his degree). The kid wanted and worked for a quality college experience, on the court, in the classroom and as a place for growing into an adult. And there are many others we could point to who have left early who have done things the right way while they were enrolled in school.

My issue is that quite a few of the "one-and-doners" (not just UK kids at all) have no business near a college campus. They're going to college because, more or less, they have to. I think kids should be able to enter the draft after high school if they so desire.

The way I view my alma mater is this: We, as alumni and fans, deserve a competitive team on the field/court because the resources are there for the coaches to bring in kids who can compete at the appropriate level (can't have always said this about Vandy football, but that is changing). But at the end of the day, the school also has to get kids who will be capable and worthy of having the same degree us alumni have. I guess I can't get over the idea that that's the whole point of having the school in the first place. If my alma mater competes at a fairly high level while remembering that it's more important to bring in and turn out quality human beings who make the most of the opportunites given them in college, I have no issues. That does not sound like too much to ask. :D

I also agree with you that the fans and schools are getting more out of the student-athletes' time there than the kids are. Are schools really fulfilling their missions by using these kids and allowing themselves to be used to a certain extent?
And I have no issue with John Wall wanting to go to college. But he didn't really have much of a choice, did he?

I see a few possible solutions.
1) Make the athletic department a "school" unto itself. Let the kids at Florida and OSU and the other schools participate, get paid some money, and get a "football" degree. That would loosen schools from having to treat the kids like regular students, which they are not (based on their schedule, not necessarily their acadmeic capabilities.) It would allow the schools to create "athletic/academic calendars" that work around their seasons (which would eliminate the BCS "finals" excuse as well). But, it can maintain some of the associations that draw people to the event in the first place. Also, if the kids want to participate in the regular education program at a school, then their "salary" can go to the education instead.
2) Create something similar to the Junior Hockey Leagues in Canada. They are a feeder to the NHL, have the same passionate fan base that many colleges do (the finals of the Juniors rival the Stanley Cup Finals in interest) and don't have the compulsory academic aspect, (although the do try to provide academic assistance to the kids if they do decide to go to college and not to the pros). It seems like a pretty nice solution.
3) Academies. Imagine if there was a USA Basketball program that took the top fifty 16 year olds into the program each year. It taught them the game without the pressures of recruiting, the inconsistency and fragmenting of talent of the NCAA and AAU, and taught them a more consistent game. How much better would American ballers be? How much better would the NBA be? In fact, this idea has me pumped up. We would be awesome. USA, USA, USA...

improbus
04-06-2012, 02:09 PM
Sorry to hijack the Uk thread. I'll get back to watching videos of Noel blocking 6'4 guys into the third row:)

jmac
04-06-2012, 02:32 PM
Just seen this on another site :

The first reliable report is leaking out from ESPNís draft expert. Chad Fordís latest blog post claims that Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Anthony Davis, and Terrence Jones will declare for the NBA draft soon

Not surprised at all by Davis. Jones had a good tourney. MKG though I think he has alot of room for improvement as far as the next level, is projected as high # 2 so I dont blame him either.
Still no early rumors on what Lamb or Teague will do.
I would think coach Cal would want these guys to make their choices so guys like Shabazz, Noel and Bennett would know what was going on.

WMR
04-06-2012, 06:28 PM
If Lamb or Teague came back it would be pretty huge.

UK is still in on a bunch of different guys, going to be really interesting to see how it shakes out.

Assembly Hall
04-07-2012, 07:18 AM
If Lamb or Teague came back it would be pretty huge.

UK is still in on a bunch of different guys, going to be really interesting to see how it shakes out.

Very interesting indeed!

Tuff Nut
04-07-2012, 10:17 AM
They have to declare by the 10th, but they can "pull back" by the 29th, I believe.
The rule as I understand it, is that a player, has until the 29th to declare, but any that have declared, have until the 10th, to pull their name out, without losing eligibility.
In other words, if you declare after the 10th, you cannot get out.

WVRed
04-07-2012, 10:33 AM
Just seen this on another site :

The first reliable report is leaking out from ESPNís draft expert. Chad Fordís latest blog post claims that Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, Anthony Davis, and Terrence Jones will declare for the NBA draft soon

Not surprised at all by Davis. Jones had a good tourney. MKG though I think he has alot of room for improvement as far as the next level, is projected as high # 2 so I dont blame him either.
Still no early rumors on what Lamb or Teague will do.
I would think coach Cal would want these guys to make their choices so guys like Shabazz, Noel and Bennett would know what was going on.

I'm glad MKG is going though. I agree that he has a lot of room for improvement but there's two reasons why he should go:

1. Consider Harrison Barnes, who would have likely been a top 2 pick last year. He came back to work on his shot and improve his game and he is still a top 10 pick, but likely in the 5-10 range now. MKG is expected to go higher than Barnes.

2. MKG plays 100 mph and I don't think that will ever change (nor should it). The problem with a motor like his is that it leads to injury. Remember when we were all catching our breath after he took the spill against Kansas early in the game? With how hard MKG plays, it could happen. All it takes is one freak play in college and you've lost millions (DaSean Butler from WVU).

I'd like to see Teague or Lamb return. Either one is capable of running the point next season. I'd be fine with Harrow, but Teague could become that elite PG with a second season or Lamb could convert to a PG and likely improve his draft stock.

Assembly Hall
04-07-2012, 11:28 AM
I think Lamb and Teague should both come back. When I see draft projections where the "experts" say they might be 1st round selections a red flag comes up in my mind.

improbus
04-07-2012, 12:51 PM
I'm glad MKG is going though. I agree that he has a lot of room for improvement but there's two reasons why he should go:

1. Consider Harrison Barnes, who would have likely been a top 2 pick last year. He came back to work on his shot and improve his game and he is still a top 10 pick, but likely in the 5-10 range now. MKG is expected to go higher than Barnes.

2. MKG plays 100 mph and I don't think that will ever change (nor should it). The problem with a motor like his is that it leads to injury. Remember when we were all catching our breath after he took the spill against Kansas early in the game? With how hard MKG plays, it could happen. All it takes is one freak play in college and you've lost millions (DaSean Butler from WVU).

I'd like to see Teague or Lamb return. Either one is capable of running the point next season. I'd be fine with Harrow, but Teague could become that elite PG with a second season or Lamb could convert to a PG and likely improve his draft stock.
Also, I don't know how much MKG is going to improve his game in college. His offensive game is based on finishing the break and bulldozing his way to the rim. That works in college in a way that it won't in the NBA. How much will playing in college push him to develop his shaky jumper?

Hoosier Red
04-08-2012, 11:34 AM
The rule as I understand it, is that a player, has until the 29th to declare, but any that have declared, have until the 10th, to pull their name out, without losing eligibility.
In other words, if you declare after the 10th, you cannot get out.

I think you mean if you declare after the 29th, then you can't pull your name out. If that wasn't the case, the 29th wouldn't have any significance.

Assembly Hall
04-08-2012, 10:11 PM
I think you mean if you declare after the 29th, then you can't pull your name out. If that wasn't the case, the 29th wouldn't have any significance.

I copied this off of CBS.........................

Stay in school or go pro? Underclassmen have until 11:59 p.m. ET on April 29 to declare for the 2012 NBA Draft. Under NCAA guidelines, players who have not previously declared and who have not hired an agent must withdraw from draft consideration by April 10 to retain their college eligibility. The NBA's deadline is 5 p.m. ET on June 18.

Hoosier Red
04-09-2012, 09:04 AM
AH, that was my hangup. I was reading it as you could withdraw up until May 10.

My faulty reading, not Tuff Nut's writing.

The problem for fans waiting to hear about players going or staying is that it doesn't mean they are coming back if they haven't declared by April 10.

Really I'd think they should switch those two dates but I suppose that would make it harder on those poor little college coaches.

jmac
04-10-2012, 08:45 PM
I heard today by a friend that Oriaki (maybe spelled wrong), tweeted after Cal visited him over weekend : Cal told him there would be 2 returning. Did anyone else see this ?
I am assuming he is including Wiljter as one. If he really said this, my other guess would be Lamb as I have heard nothing at all on him as far as which way he may be leaning.
Tomorrow we find out about Bazz and Noel.

Assembly Hall
04-11-2012, 07:23 AM
I heard today by a friend that Oriaki (maybe spelled wrong), tweeted after Cal visited him over weekend : Cal told him there would be 2 returning. Did anyone else see this ?
I am assuming he is including Wiljter as one. If he really said this, my other guess would be Lamb as I have heard nothing at all on him as far as which way he may be leaning.
Tomorrow we find out about Bazz and Noel.

I did not see it. But to me Wiljter is a given. I wouldnt be surprised if Lamb and Teague came back as I have seen very few projections where either would go in the 1st round. But that being said, it could change in a heart beat.......they got until the 29th.

Scrap Irony
04-11-2012, 08:15 AM
Teague is gone. For sure. (Friend of a friend is telling almost anyone who'll listen.) Of the ten or so mock drafts I've seen, he's been in the first round in all but one.

Lamb is almost 100% gone, IMO. He's also only missed one first round in the mock drafts I've seen.

When I read it, I thought the Kentucky staff was referring to Wiltjer and Beckham as the two kids coming back, as they're the only two scholarship players that played on last season's team. (IIRC-- I can't remember who's been offered a scholarship and who's not.) Someone told/ tweeted someone else and that gets lost in the shuffle, I think. Of course, I could be wrong-- Lamb or Jones or any one of them not named Teague may be coming back.

Quick question: If you have extra scholarships in football, you often reward a walk-on or three with free rides they weren't expecting.

Did Calipari do that last season with his walk-ons? If not, why not?

dabvu2498
04-11-2012, 12:22 PM
I'm pretty sure Polson was on scholarship this past year.

jmac
04-11-2012, 07:26 PM
While I believe all the big names are gone (Davis, MKG etc), does anyone have any idea if there is a benefit to them not already declaring ? Just seems to me to go ahead and announce it "if" they are going which is about 99% certain.

WVRed
04-11-2012, 07:54 PM
Shabazz Muhammad to UCLA.

Nerlens Noel to announce at 8:45, its sounding like Georgetown.

If anybody is watching the Signing Day Special, they interviewed Cal and the way he phrashed it suggested that "Coming to Kentucky is not for everybody", which leads me to think UK struck out on both.

WMR
04-11-2012, 07:56 PM
Hopefully Cal can make a strong run at Jefferson and Oriakhi.

#8 has me so not concerned, lol. :D

jmac
04-11-2012, 07:58 PM
If anybody is watching the Signing Day Special, they interviewed Cal and the way he phrashed it suggested that "Coming to Kentucky is not for everybody", which leads me to think UK struck out on both.
I thought same thing....like he "knew" already.

WMR
04-11-2012, 07:58 PM
Anthony Bennett also a possibility.

WVRed
04-11-2012, 08:02 PM
I thought same thing....like he "knew" already.

The coaches already know the decisions I believe.

Noel said his mom was the deciding factor and his mom was pushing Georgetown.

Bennett is an absolute jackrabbit. Undersized but chiseled and athletic. I like him for depth and for a defensive upgrade over Wiltjer, but UK needs size under the rim.

Joseph
04-11-2012, 08:26 PM
Would have been nice to get either, but it barely knocks the wind out of any sails right now.

jmac
04-11-2012, 08:32 PM
Teague is gone. For sure. (Friend of a friend is telling almost anyone who'll listen.) Of the ten or so mock drafts I've seen, he's been in the first round in all but one.

Lamb is almost 100% gone, IMO. He's also only missed one first round in the mock drafts I've seen.

When I read it, I thought the Kentucky staff was referring to Wiltjer and Beckham as the two kids coming back, as they're the only two scholarship players that played on last season's team. (IIRC-- I can't remember who's been offered a scholarship and who's not.) Someone told/ tweeted someone else and that gets lost in the shuffle, I think. Of course, I could be wrong-- Lamb or Jones or any one of them not named Teague may be coming back.

Quick question: If you have extra scholarships in football, you often reward a walk-on or three with free rides they weren't expecting.

Did Calipari do that last season with his walk-ons? If not, why not?
Ouch...this deflated my hopes for who the 2 were. I figured Wiltjer was one as he clearly isnt ready but I hadnt though about him referring to Harrow with this.

WMR
04-11-2012, 08:47 PM
WE GOT NERLENS!!!

WMR
04-11-2012, 08:51 PM
Make it 4 number 1 recruiting classes. :cool:

Hoosier Red
04-11-2012, 09:58 PM
Congrats on the recruit. Hope the qualification isn't as difficult as I've seen reported.

Amused by the IU fans who are offended by the shameful affront to the fine university experience of the One and Done's at Kentucky.

It's shameful alright, except when it was Eric Gordon, or when it will be Hanner Perea, or when it will be Gary Harris who IU went after hard.

WMR
04-11-2012, 10:01 PM
I haven't heard anything about a difficult qualification. He wouldn't have reclassified otherwise. You can always count on Thameltoe trying to be a wet blanket, however. Especially when it doesn't involve Syraccused.

WMR
04-11-2012, 10:06 PM
"Writing about a HS kid who hasn't yet qualified - but hasn't been ruled ineligible - is messed up. Shame on the NYT" - Doyel

jmac
04-11-2012, 10:14 PM
The CatsPause is reporting Bennett is very close to joining the fun. :)

dabvu2498
04-11-2012, 10:17 PM
Flipped by it as they were showing some Noel highlights.

ESPN moron: "Noel is the best shot blocking high schooler since Greg Oden."

My wife: "I thought Anthony Davis... Guess he's old news isn't he?"

WMR
04-11-2012, 10:18 PM
}:-) = 8. [[[:-) = 9

:lol:

The Operator
04-11-2012, 10:59 PM
}:-) = 8. [[[:-) = 9

:lol:
I'm glad they landed Nerlens, if for no other reason than we'll need something odd to love about a player now that Davis' unibrow will be gone.

Can't wait to see some fun shirts featuring the hair:

http://i.usatoday.net/communitymanager/_photos/campus-rivalry/2012/04/10/noelx-large.jpg

WMR
04-12-2012, 01:05 PM
It's a Nerlens Noel Thursday....

Nerlens Noel - The Best Defensive Player in the Country - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qggE9Xaw6n8)

WMR
04-12-2012, 01:32 PM
Funny twitter stuff:

At 5pm EST, Bazz has 32.7k followers and Noel has 24k.

next day...

12:44 PM...

Nerlens - 40,971

Bazz - 29,222

KENTUCKY EFFECT :D

TeamSelig
04-12-2012, 05:02 PM
Noel's wingspan = 7'4" per draft express (same as Davis FWIW)

jmac
04-12-2012, 06:21 PM
Looking at who we have and who may commit, still seems to lack a second point guard in case Harrow gets in foul trouble or whenever he needs a break. Is this correct or am I forgetting someone ?
Makes me wonder if Cal thinks/knows one of either Lamb or Teague is returning....(last year Lamb ran the point when Teague on bench)

Scrap Irony
04-12-2012, 07:00 PM
Kentucky has only one shooter-- if you assume all five starters are indeed gone.

And, while he may be among the best shooters in America, Wiltjer can't do it alone. Look for shooters to sign or stay, one of the two.

WMR
04-12-2012, 07:17 PM
I keep hoping Lamb gets a 2nd round projection and stays... hoping in vain, I'm guessing.

Goodwin and Poythress are both underrated shooters, esp. Poythress, IMO.

I think Poythress is better than Terrence Jones right now.

I've heard Harrow's shooting is much improved.

TeamSelig
04-12-2012, 09:19 PM
I am hoping Lamb stays as well. I think he could use another year and he could be 'the man' next season at least as far as our scoring load goes. I think it could potentially help his draft stock.

dabvu2498
04-12-2012, 09:23 PM
Looking at who we have and who may commit, still seems to lack a second point guard in case Harrow gets in foul trouble or whenever he needs a break. Is this correct or am I forgetting someone ?
Makes me wonder if Cal thinks/knows one of either Lamb or Teague is returning....(last year Lamb ran the point when Teague on bench)

Twany Beckham?

jmac
04-12-2012, 09:47 PM
Twany Beckham?

Thanks...I forgot about him. ;)

dabvu2498
04-12-2012, 10:24 PM
Thanks...I forgot about him. ;)

That's easy to do.

jmac
04-12-2012, 10:43 PM
That's easy to do.
Thats what Stansbury said. :D

Scrap Irony
04-13-2012, 02:23 PM
Is it wrong of me to wait for Beckham to talk with reporters about his ring and Stansbury's lack of job?

jmac
04-13-2012, 08:29 PM
Alex Oriakhi to Mizzou. Bennett....come on down ! ;)

jmac
04-14-2012, 10:43 PM
Pretty good showing tonight by future Cats. Pothyruss looks like the real deal !! I think this kid will shine. Goodwin looks like he will slide over and play the backup point similar to how Lamb did. I think Cal will get him more under control.

Razor Shines
04-14-2012, 10:55 PM
Pretty good showing tonight by future Cats. Pothyruss looks like the real deal !! I think this kid will shine. Goodwin looks like he will slide over and play the backup point similar to how Lamb did. I think Cal will get him more under control.

I have to say that I think it's great that Michael Jordan and Elton Brand were able to come together to put on that game.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Joseph
04-16-2012, 08:48 PM
Press conference tomorrow where 5 UK players will announce their intentions.

All 5 going?

Reportedly Lamb, Teague, and Jones have all indicated they are going pro, leaving only Davis [no brainer] and Kidd-Gilchrist as the maybes.

WVRed
04-16-2012, 09:36 PM
Press conference tomorrow where 5 UK players will announce their intentions.

All 5 going?

Reportedly Lamb, Teague, and Jones have all indicated they are going pro, leaving only Davis [no brainer] and Kidd-Gilchrist as the maybes.

I don't think Lamb is a lock. I've heard Marc Maggard is hinting at least one player will be coming back

Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk 2

Joseph
04-16-2012, 09:43 PM
Would love to see them all back, but realistically I would like Teague and Lamb back as I think they can help themselves the most by coming back.

jmac
04-16-2012, 10:04 PM
Since they are all doing it together, I dont have a good feeling about any returning but ya never know.

Joseph
04-16-2012, 10:14 PM
Since they are all doing it together, I dont have a good feeling about any returning but ya never know.

Same here.

Assembly Hall
04-17-2012, 06:28 AM
What is the scholarship situation at UK?

Assembly Hall
04-17-2012, 06:31 AM
I am hoping Lamb stays as well. I think he could use another year and he could be 'the man' next season at least as far as our scoring load goes. I think it could potentially help his draft stock.

I completely agree.

cumberlandreds
04-17-2012, 07:53 AM
Since they are all doing it together, I dont have a good feeling about any returning but ya never know.

Same for me. I'll be shocked if any of them comeback.

WVRed
04-17-2012, 10:47 AM
The presser has been moved to 7 PM and will air on Sportscenter.

Rumor is that Lamb and MKG are coming back while Davis, Jones, and Teague are going pro.

Hoosier Red
04-17-2012, 11:10 AM
The presser has been moved to 7 PM and will air on Sportscenter.

Rumor is that Lamb and MKG are coming back while Davis, Jones, and Teague are going pro.

Wasn't MKG the first to say he was going pro? Obviously nothing to hold him to, but I thought he said before the IU game that he was going pro.

WVRed
04-17-2012, 11:14 AM
Wasn't MKG the first to say he was going pro? Obviously nothing to hold him to, but I thought he said before the IU game that he was going pro.

Chad Ford said it, but MKG came out and denied it on Twitter.

MKG said back during SEC play that he was staying four years. I don't think anybody took that seriously.

Scrap Irony
04-17-2012, 11:16 AM
IF (notice the capital letters) both Lamb and MKG come back, Kentucky's the clear pre-season number one. That team would defend adequately, rebound fairly well (both MKG and Lamb are underrated rebounders at their position), but their real strength would likely be running and shooting/ slashing.

Regardless, it's likely a poor choice monetarily for MKG, though, personally, I wouldn't have traded college for $10 million.

WVRed
04-17-2012, 11:19 AM
What is the scholarship situation at UK?

As of right now (if everyone leaves):

Leaving:
Marquis Teague
Doron Lamb
Anthony Davis
Terrence Jones
Michael Kidd-Gilchrist

Graduating:
Eloy Vargas
Darius Miller

Returning:
Twany Beckham
Jarrod Polson
Kyle Wiltjer
Jon Hood
Ryan Harrow (redshirt)

Incoming:
Archie Goodwin
Alex Poythress
Willie Cauley
Nerlens Noel

So theoretically, UK could likely have three more scholarships to give, although I wouldn't be shocked if one goes to Anthony Bennett if he commits and the other two are given to the walkons (Sam Malone and Brian Long)

Assembly Hall
04-17-2012, 12:01 PM
Thanks WV. So you might loose 7 and are giving 4. Hmmmmmmmm, something tells me Cal has this all figured out!;)

TeamSelig
04-17-2012, 12:20 PM
WOW if MKG and Lamb return.

Harrow - Lamb - MKG - Wiltjer - Noel

Poythress/Goodwin/Bennett? off the bench. That is a pretty good team.

BEETTLEBUG
04-17-2012, 07:08 PM
Has anybody got up dates ?

jmac
04-17-2012, 07:19 PM
Dave Baker posting on his twitter just a few minutes ago they are all leaving.

Assembly Hall
04-17-2012, 07:33 PM
Dave Baker posting on his twitter just a few minutes ago they are all leaving.

Wow...really? Geez, I thought at least one would stick around.

jmac
04-17-2012, 08:35 PM
Wow...really? Geez, I thought at least one would stick around.
I did at first but the longer it went, my mind started to change.

TeamSelig
04-18-2012, 12:14 AM
Hypothetical What If Lineup: (no one leaves early, they commit despite playing time complications, and scholarships #s don't matter)

PG John Wall (SR)
SG Doron Lamb (JR)
SF MKG (SO)
PF Anthony Davis (SO)
C DeMarcus Cousins (SR)

G Eric Bledsoe (SR)
G Brandon Knight (JR)
G Marquis Teague (SO)
F Terrence Jones (SO)
C Enes Kanter (SR)
C Daniel Orton (SR)


I think I'd run Wall-Knight-MKG-Davis-Cousins... with Bledsoe/Lamb, Jones, and Kanter as my primary bench players.

WMR
04-23-2012, 02:16 AM
My top 10 players overall of the Cal era (combining judging talent, stats, accomplishments, impact, i.e. all-encompassing)
1. AD
2. MKG
3. Wall
4. BK
5. Miller
6. Lamb
7. Jones
8. PPatt
9. Cuz
10. Jorts

5TimeWSChamps
04-23-2012, 02:54 AM
My top 10 players overall of the Cal era (combining judging talent, stats, accomplishments, impact, i.e. all-encompassing)
1. AD
2. MKG
3. Wall
4. BK
5. Miller
6. Lamb
7. Jones
8. PPatt
9. Cuz
10. Jorts

Mine:

1. AD
2. Wall
3. MKG
4. Knight
5. Cousins
6. Jones
7. Lamb
8. Patterson
9. Miller
10. Harrellson

ervinsm84
04-23-2012, 03:05 AM
If i had to pick one guy to put on a random team to win one game, this is my order.

1Davis
2MKG
3Wall
4Patterson
5Cousins
6Knight
7Bledsoe
8Lamb
9Miller
10Jones

WMR
04-23-2012, 01:21 PM
Based on the Street and Smith mathematical formula from their outstanding
magazine in 2004. A very comprehensive overall evaluation. The way the
points were awarded:

All Time Winning percentage x 40 (unsure why they did it this way)
Number of 20 win seasons x 2 points
Number of 30 win seasons x 3 points
Seasons finishing in the AP Top 20/25 x 3 points
Seasons finishing in the AP Top 10 x 5 points
Seasons finishing as the AP Final #1 x 10 points
Conference regular season titles x 10 points
Conference tournament titles x 6 points
NIT Titles x 10 points
NCAA Tournament appearances x 10 points
NCAA Tournament wins x 4 points
NCAA Sweet 16s x 4 points
NCAA Elite 8s x 8 points
NCAA Final 4s x 14 points
NCAA Title game appearances x 16 points
NCAA Titles x 25 points
NCAA Probations x a negative 3 points

So, the top 14 programs through the 2012 Season:

1. Kentucky 3261.5 points
2. North Carolina 2771.5
3. UCLA 2582.7
4. Kansas 2482.8
5. Duke 2334.1
6. Indiana 1711.5
7. Louisville 1621.2
8. Ohio State 1395
9. UConn 1393.7
10. Cincinnati 1223.2
11. Syracuse 1220.5
12. Arizona 1202.8
13. Michigan State 1155.9
14. Arkansas 1148.6

A couple of things; the gap between UK and #2 is 490 points. The #2, #3
#4, and #5 programs are within 437 points of each other. Kansas is very
close to overtaking UCLA for #3.

Lastly, Louisville with 1621.5 points is basically 50% as great a program
as UK with 3261.5 points.

Scrap Irony
04-23-2012, 03:04 PM
If i had to pick one guy to put on a random team to win one game, this is my order.

1Davis
2MKG
3Wall
4Patterson
5Cousins
6Knight
7Bledsoe
8Lamb
9Miller
10Jones

PG Wall
SG Lamb
SF Miller
PF Patterson
C Davis

PG Knight
SG Bledsoe
SF MKG
PF Jones
C Cousins

I can't decide on which team I'd like more. Wall can't shoot, but the rest of that team would make it a bizarre inside-out nightmare.

OTOH, the other team could legitimately claim every rebound within a ten-mile radius. It'd also have enough jets to take off, if needed.

WVRed
04-23-2012, 04:18 PM
http://ksr.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/clinton.jpg

LexRedsFan
04-23-2012, 09:09 PM
The Reds are honoring UK tomorrow night.

Bought a pair of cheap tickets on StubHub...I couldn't resist seeing my two favorite sports teams in one place.

Assembly Hall
04-24-2012, 07:08 AM
Based on the Street and Smith mathematical formula from their outstanding
magazine in 2004. A very comprehensive overall evaluation. The way the
points were awarded:

All Time Winning percentage x 40 (unsure why they did it this way)
Number of 20 win seasons x 2 points
Number of 30 win seasons x 3 points
Seasons finishing in the AP Top 20/25 x 3 points
Seasons finishing in the AP Top 10 x 5 points
Seasons finishing as the AP Final #1 x 10 points
Conference regular season titles x 10 points
Conference tournament titles x 6 points
NIT Titles x 10 points
NCAA Tournament appearances x 10 points
NCAA Tournament wins x 4 points
NCAA Sweet 16s x 4 points
NCAA Elite 8s x 8 points
NCAA Final 4s x 14 points
NCAA Title game appearances x 16 points
NCAA Titles x 25 points
NCAA Probations x a negative 3 points

So, the top 14 programs through the 2012 Season:

1. Kentucky 3261.5 points
2. North Carolina 2771.5
3. UCLA 2582.7
4. Kansas 2482.8
5. Duke 2334.1
6. Indiana 1711.5
7. Louisville 1621.2
8. Ohio State 1395
9. UConn 1393.7
10. Cincinnati 1223.2
11. Syracuse 1220.5
12. Arizona 1202.8
13. Michigan State 1155.9
14. Arkansas 1148.6

A couple of things; the gap between UK and #2 is 490 points. The #2, #3
#4, and #5 programs are within 437 points of each other. Kansas is very
close to overtaking UCLA for #3.

Lastly, Louisville with 1621.5 points is basically 50% as great a program
as UK with 3261.5 points.

That's some pretty interesting stuff there, and did raise my eyebrows. The Top 7 didnt surprise me, but from that point on it did. I would be curious as to where UNLV, DePaul, NC State, Marquette, Purdue, and Notre Dame would be on the list.

cumberlandreds
04-24-2012, 07:57 AM
The Reds are honoring UK tomorrow night.

Bought a pair of cheap tickets on StubHub...I couldn't resist seeing my two favorite sports teams in one place.

Hopefully they will show a bit of it on the pregame. Hoping too Cal will stick around for the game and maybe be interviewed during it. Very cool of the Reds to do this BTW.

improbus
04-24-2012, 08:41 PM
Hopefully they will show a bit of it on the pregame. Hoping too Cal will stick around for the game and maybe be interviewed during it. Very cool of the Reds to do this BTW.

Some highlights of the interview for me.

1) A mention of Hood. Does that mean some PT next year?
2) Jumping when the smoke stacks went off.
3) The lovely lady to his right. She really kept my attention.

improbus
04-24-2012, 08:48 PM
So, the top 14 programs through the 2012 Season:

1. Kentucky 3261.5 points
2. North Carolina 2771.5
3. UCLA 2582.7
4. Kansas 2482.8
5. Duke 2334.1
6. Indiana 1711.5
7. Louisville 1621.2
8. Ohio State 1395
9. UConn 1393.7
10. Cincinnati 1223.2
11. Syracuse 1220.5
12. Arizona 1202.8
13. Michigan State 1155.9
14. Arkansas 1148.6

The most interesting thing to me is that OSU is 8th and is the only school on this list whose hoops squad is a definitive second class citizen in its own town. I am perpetually saddened at the disparity between football and hoops here in Columbus.

BTW, where would OSU rank on the same list for football? My guess is one or two positions above 8th.

Assembly Hall
04-25-2012, 06:07 AM
The most interesting thing to me is that OSU is 8th and is the only school on this list whose hoops squad is a definitive second class citizen in its own town. I am perpetually saddened at the disparity between football and hoops here in Columbus.

BTW, where would OSU rank on the same list for football? My guess is one or two positions above 8th.

LOL.........look on the bright side.......OSU is a football school that has deep B-ball tradition!

Personally, Arizona and UConn surprised me the most. They werent even thought of until the mid 80's.

cumberlandreds
04-25-2012, 07:52 AM
Some highlights of the interview for me.

1) A mention of Hood. Does that mean some PT next year?
2) Jumping when the smoke stacks went off.
3) The lovely lady to his right. She really kept my attention.

Seemed like he was going out of his way not to mention any of his incoming freshman by name.

Seems as though there were a few Reds fans that didn't like the idea of the Reds honoring UK's championship. I figure it was some Ohio State, UC and UL fans that are jealous. :)

http://www.kentucky.com/2012/04/24/2163170/john-clay-judging-the-deeds-of.html (http://www.kentucky.com/2012/04/24/2163170/john-clay-judging-the-deeds-of.html)

WMR
04-26-2012, 12:50 PM
It's sounding like UK is refusing to bring their teams or fans back to Bloomington. After the shameful way our visiting fans were treated, I must say that I'm very glad to hear this. DeWayne Peevy said UK would not be going back and it's looking right now like he wasn't lying. If IU doesn't want to play on a neutral court they can go away.

WMR
04-26-2012, 02:29 PM
Extremely interesting, well-made short film made about night of UK championship win in Lexington. Fun video, must watch. http://vimeo.com/41012322

WVRed
04-26-2012, 03:15 PM
It's sounding like UK is refusing to bring their teams or fans back to Bloomington. After the shameful way our visiting fans were treated, I must say that I'm very glad to hear this. DeWayne Peevy said UK would not be going back and it's looking right now like he wasn't lying. If IU doesn't want to play on a neutral court they can go away.

I feel the same way. We can replace them on the schedule with Ohio State and not miss a beat. With tOSU becoming a consistent basketball presence and sharing a border, I think Kentucky and Ohio State could become a pretty good rivalry.

Indiana needs us more than we need them. We sell out Rupp regardless. I don't think IU fans will storm the court if they beat Kansas in Bloomington either.

Scrap Irony
04-26-2012, 04:12 PM
From most reports, IU fans acted horribly in Bloomington.

That said, it's not the real reason UK won't play there. Or at least not the primary reason.

1. As he's stated, Cal doesn't like playing friends. Crean is among his best friends. If he can get away with it, he won't play Crean. (Crean likely feels the same way.)

2. Neutral court games are better preparation than home-and-homes for the NCAA Tournament. That's Cal's focus every year. (It'll be Crean's too, IMO.) What good does it do to play in front of 14,000 rabid fans who could very well injure a star player if they storm the court? (Darius Miller and Terrence Jones came awfully close last season to getting stomped. DeMarcus Cousins came closer three years ago at South Carolina, IIRC, when a fan challenged him to a fight.)

3. A December game (and especially a loss) might hurt freshmen psyches. It affected the 2012 team, though they eventually got mad and it helped them win later. A less mentally tough team might have been devastated and never recovered.

4. An almost guaranteed win against a (barely) Top 100 RPI team or a glorified practice against Southwest Directional State University mean just as much to Cal as does a game against IU. He's not into measuring sticks. Especially that early in the season. He claims they mean nothing to him, as he's looking at what can make his teams play best in March.

5. Cal is at the point where his RPI isn't going to mean much with the NCAA. His teams are always going to be ranked high enough pre-season to stick close to the top 15 and his conference is strong enough to keep him in an RPI range that won't hurt him. In short, a victory doesn't mean much mathematically.

6. Every game is on TV anyway. Almost every weekend is a national game already. Why risk the loss on national TV for a win that means so little? His recruiting is monster-ish-- among the best runs CBB has seen since UCLA and Sam Gilbert-- ummm, I mean John Wooden. Why take the risk of adding to IU's reputation while simultaneously taking away from your own? From this year on, Crean and Calipari are likely to go after pretty much the same kids.

WMR
04-26-2012, 04:15 PM
You make some interesting points, Scrap, however, Crean has come out on record recently whining about UK's disinterest in going back to Bloomington, so I'm not sure it's accurate to portray him as being as keen on the neutral site games as UK is.

WMR
04-26-2012, 04:19 PM
The annual rivalry with Kentucky, though, could soon end if the two schools can't agree on where to play the games.

From 1991-2005, the games had been played at neutral sites in Indianapolis and Louisville. Then the games were moved back to campus. Now the Wildcats, Crean said, don't want to play in Bloomington, where Christian Watford beat them with a buzzer-beating 3-pointer in December. It was Kentucky's only regular-season loss.

"The Kentucky game is still being talked about worked on, but it's not set in stone because, as many of you know, Kentucky doesn't want to play on our campus anymore and that's certainly not our first choice," Crean said. "Keeping it on campus is without a doubt our first choice and always has been since I've been here."

A spokesman at Kentucky said the school had no comment and said the Wildcats' schedule was still a work in progress.

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/18824483/after-turnaround-season-crean-pushing-hoosiers-to-keep-improving

Hoosier Red
04-26-2012, 04:27 PM
If I had to guess, it's about money.

Calipari may not like playing friends, but he's perfectly amenable to playing IU if its a neutral court game.

Playing IU in a home and home is lose-lose from a revenue standpoint. Bringing IU to Rupp brings in essentially zero extra fans as opposed to directional state A & T, and of course every other year you lose a home game and have to deal with IU fans who were perfectly horrible to you the last time you made the trip.

That said, I haven't heard any complaints about fans behavior in previous games so I can't imagine fans behavior at a game once, would be enough to disrupt a rivalry that has been going strong for longer than I've been alive.

Hoosier Red
04-26-2012, 04:30 PM
You make some interesting points, Scrap, however, Crean has come out on record recently whining about UK's disinterest in going back to Bloomington, so I'm not sure it's accurate to portray him as being as keen on the neutral site games as UK is.

Whining?


"The Kentucky game is still being talked about worked on, but it's not set in stone because, as many of you know, Kentucky doesn't want to play on our campus anymore and that's certainly not our first choice," Crean said. "Keeping it on campus is without a doubt our first choice and always has been since I've been here."

It's not quite to the level of Chris Carpenter, but yeah big time whining going on there.

WMR
04-26-2012, 05:19 PM
Who wouldn't want to bring a kid to this kind of college basketball game atmosphere?


EDIT: NSFW language.


Classy IU Fans - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkj905YCnWw&feature=related)

Assembly Hall
04-26-2012, 05:28 PM
UK made a scheduling mistake a few years back when the game was supposed to be at Louisville. They ended up playing the game at Rupp. It has been home and home ever since as IU was pretty upset about UK making a big time faux pas. I personally dont care one way or another.......but dont blame it on IU's "unruly" fans. You cant tell me if Florida would have beaten' the 'Cats in Gainsville their fans wouldnt have stormed the court after beating the #1 team in the country? I would imagine that it comes down money, friendships, or just how many ooc games against quality opponents you play in general. But whatever the case may be, I hope the rivalry continues, and I dont care where it is played at.

Hoosier Red
04-26-2012, 05:35 PM
Who wouldn't want to bring a kid to this kind of college basketball game atmosphere?


EDIT: NSFW language.


Classy IU Fans - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lkj905YCnWw&feature=related)

Undoubtedly the first time such words were uttered at a sporting event. I dare ask how Chris Carpenter's going to explain it to his son.

I'm not defending any particular actor, but if everything had been fine up until last December then I'd be surprised if one particulary bad 3 hours would be enough to stop the series.

Ultimately the decision comes down to money for UK. The rivalry obviously means less to UK than it does to IU which is fine. If it's not renewed, here's hoping there are more matchups in March.

Assembly Hall
04-26-2012, 05:37 PM
Who wouldn't want to bring a kid to this kind of college basketball game atmosphere?

Lord knows drunken fans arent at Rupp. Give me a break. Revel in your championship and cherish it.

Scrap Irony
04-26-2012, 05:39 PM
It wasn't just the fans after the game, Assembly, it was the fans before and during the game.

According to one of my reporter friends, it was the worst crowd he'd ever seen. And he's been doing these type of games for 30 years. (Maybe more.)

He said bottles, ice, full cans of soda, insults, and poop (!) were thrown at one group of Kentucky fans before the game.

dabvu2498
04-26-2012, 05:40 PM
Lord knows drunken fans arent at Rupp. Give me a break. Revel in your championship and cherish it.

Yeah. The streets of Lexington weren't safe after UK's last two wins.

Assembly Hall
04-26-2012, 05:41 PM
It wasn't just the fans after the game, Assembly, it was the fans before and during the game.

According to one of my reporter friends, it was the worst crowd he'd ever seen. And he's been doing these type of games for 30 years. (Maybe more.)

He said bottles, ice, full cans of soda, insults, and poop (!) were thrown at one group of Kentucky fans before the game.

I would say biased reporting after a tough loss.

WMR
04-26-2012, 05:46 PM
It wasn't just the fans after the game, Assembly, it was the fans before and during the game.

According to one of my reporter friends, it was the worst crowd he'd ever seen. And he's been doing these type of games for 30 years. (Maybe more.)

He said bottles, ice, full cans of soda, insults, and poop (!) were thrown at one group of Kentucky fans before the game.

Yep. And numerous, unrelated reports of UK fans being spit on. I'm sorry, but if you spit on someone, you do not deserve to live amongst other humans. Spitting on someone is about as vile as it gets.

WMR
04-26-2012, 05:47 PM
I would say biased reporting after a tough loss.

Is that why the President of the college came out and issued an apology? I'm sure it was just dozens of people making things up. (You are an RMK apologist though, aren't you. :D)

Assembly Hall
04-26-2012, 05:58 PM
Is that why the President of the college came out and issued an apology? I'm sure it was just dozens of people making things up. (You are an RMK apologist though, aren't you. :D)

LOL.....as UK fans are Adolph Rupp, Joe B. Hall, and Eddie Sutton apologists. Lord knows that no hint of shame has ever fell over the campus at Lexington. You guys ran into a buzz saw that particular day, it happens. I dont condone anything that might have happened or was reported. Big wins will call for big celebrations, and unfortunately some people take it to an unacceptable level. But dont give me that "Holier than thou" attitude. To think that one game will dissolve the series is wishful thinking. :D

Joseph
04-26-2012, 08:42 PM
The only thing I take offense to is the buzzsaw comment. ;)

Assembly Hall
04-27-2012, 06:22 AM
The only thing I take offense to is the buzzsaw comment. ;)

LOL.......I thought about saying "hornet's nest":D

New York Red
04-27-2012, 03:49 PM
UK made a scheduling mistake a few years back when the game was supposed to be at Louisville. They ended up playing the game at Rupp. It has been home and home ever since as IU was pretty upset about UK making a big time faux pas. I personally dont care one way or another.......but dont blame it on IU's "unruly" fans. You cant tell me if Florida would have beaten' the 'Cats in Gainsville their fans wouldnt have stormed the court after beating the #1 team in the country? I would imagine that it comes down money, friendships, or just how many ooc games against quality opponents you play in general. But whatever the case may be, I hope the rivalry continues, and I dont care where it is played at.
You can't honestly believe that the comments about the ridiculous behavior by IU fans has anything to do with them rushing the court. I've seen numerous crowds rush the court after knocking off UK in my lifetime, but I have never ever seen a fanbase behave the way IU fans did that day. I hope the series continues, but I hope we never step foot in Bloomington again.

Assembly Hall
04-27-2012, 06:13 PM
You can't honestly believe that the comments about the ridiculous behavior by IU fans has anything to do with them rushing the court. I've seen numerous crowds rush the court after knocking off UK in my lifetime, but I have never ever seen a fanbase behave the way IU fans did that day. I hope the series continues, but I hope we never step foot in Bloomington again.

Listen NYRED/NYUKFAN.......your Playboy model said she got injured at the game because of the fans storming the court. Storming the court has become a topic. But dont tell me the "fanbase" behaved that way. Not every IU fan was at that game over even in Bloomington that day. You wouldnt have even been on that court if you had read my earlier post. They changed the venues back in the mid to late '80's and they were played on "neutral" sites. At the dome in Indy, and at Louisville. The kicker was that tickets were split right down the middle. Half to UK, half to IU.....no matter where the game was at. UK screwed up and blamed a scheduling conflict one year it was supposed to be at Louisville. The game was played at Rupp and the tickets werent split down the middle. IU never forgot that and it went back to the old days home and home. I have been to a many IU/UK games in my lifetime. Two come to mind..........'82-'83(regular season) and '87-'88........Great games. But to say there are no UK fans that dont antognize, yell profanities, and pick fights is absurd. I have witnessed it....been there done that. Some of you guys have been so negative about that game that I take back what I ever said. You dont want to come to Bloomington, then the hell with Lexington.

WVRed
04-28-2012, 12:08 AM
Listen NYRED/NYUKFAN.......your Playboy model said she got injured at the game because of the fans storming the court. Storming the court has become a topic. But dont tell me the "fanbase" behaved that way. Not every IU fan was at that game over even in Bloomington that day. You wouldnt have even been on that court if you had read my earlier post. They changed the venues back in the mid to late '80's and they were played on "neutral" sites. At the dome in Indy, and at Louisville. The kicker was that tickets were split right down the middle. Half to UK, half to IU.....no matter where the game was at. UK screwed up and blamed a scheduling conflict one year it was supposed to be at Louisville. The game was played at Rupp and the tickets werent split down the middle. IU never forgot that and it went back to the old days home and home. I have been to a many IU/UK games in my lifetime. Two come to mind..........'82-'83(regular season) and '87-'88........Great games. But to say there are no UK fans that dont antognize, yell profanities, and pick fights is absurd. I have witnessed it....been there done that. Some of you guys have been so negative about that game that I take back what I ever said. You dont want to come to Bloomington, then the hell with Lexington.

I don't disagree with you at all, AH. The only difference though is you won't see those fans in Rupp Arena, and there is a reason:

When the IU game went on sale, tickets went on sale the day of the game. Games at Rupp go to season ticket holders first, who are mostly older alumni who you have to beg to stand up and cheer. In a way, its a problem I wish we had. There are some changes I would like to see at Rupp when they do the renovations, namely move the older fans into the luxury suites and move the ERupption Zone to the lower level similar to WVU.

That being said, there are UK fans who act like idiots. You can watch any video of the celebration after winning the national championship to see it. I don't condone it, but every fanbase has idiots. Some (not counting IU in this) happen to have more than others. :)

IIRC there was a scheduling conflict, but the tradeoff was that we played at Assembly Hall the following year. The home and home just kinda picked up after that.

As I said in a previous post, I'd like to see the Indiana series continue but on one neutral court. I'd nominate Louisville just because its a neutral site and right across the river from Indiana. Tickets could be split down the middle and it could be basketballs version of the Red River Rivalry.

If the series falls through, its not a big loss to Kentucky. We'll fill up Rupp regardless, you guys won't storm the court if you beat Kansas though. :)

Revering4Blue
04-28-2012, 12:36 AM
I'd like to see the Indiana series continue but on one neutral court. I'd nominate Louisville just because its a neutral site and right across the river from Indiana. Tickets could be split down the middle and it could be basketballs version of the Red River Rivalry.

That makes sense to me.

Assembly Hall
04-28-2012, 08:44 AM
I appreciate the comments WVRed.

I do disagree about storming the court against Kansas though. If they come to Bloomington they are in danger as well!;)

I honestly would hate to see the series come to an end myself. It is something that I always look forward to every year.

jmac
04-28-2012, 01:16 PM
When the IU game went on sale, tickets went on sale the day of the game. Games at Rupp go to season ticket holders first, who are mostly older alumni who you have to beg to stand up and cheer. In a way, its a problem I wish we had. There are some changes I would like to see at Rupp when they do the renovations, namely move the older fans into the luxury suites and move the ERupption Zone to the lower level similar to WVU.
I hope people doing the renovations read this WV ! :thumbup:

LexRedsFan
04-29-2012, 03:48 PM
Yeah. State St. wasn't safe after UK's last two wins.

Fixed that for you.

New York Red
04-29-2012, 07:40 PM
According to several sources on Twitter, the UK/IU series may indeed be finished, and it's 100% because of the behavior of IU fans. Congrats, Hoosiers, you may have killed one of the three best college basketball rivalries in the country. It will be a sad day if this series truly is over.

Assembly Hall
04-30-2012, 06:58 AM
According to several sources on Twitter, the UK/IU series may indeed be finished, and it's 100% because of the behavior of IU fans. Congrats, Hoosiers, you may have killed one of the three best college basketball rivalries in the country. It will be a sad day if this series truly is over.

I am telling you that the IU administration hasnt forgot about that neutral site game UK renigged on. You think what you want and I will think what I want.........

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/58430/3-point-shot-kentucky-indiana-impasse

Hoosier Red
04-30-2012, 09:25 AM
According to several sources on Twitter, the UK/IU series may indeed be finished, and it's 100% because of the behavior of IU fans. Congrats, Hoosiers, you may have killed one of the three best college basketball rivalries in the country. It will be a sad day if this series truly is over.

That may be the public reason NY Red, but I think you'd have to be pretty naive to think that's the sole reason, or even the primary one.

The real reason behind it is money. Kentucky gets no benefit from exchanging a home and home with IU or any other big name opponent. They can sell out Rupp for an exhibition game against EKU's branch campus. So bringing IU to Rupp brings ZERO marginal dollars to them. And of course it means that there's no money from the game every other year. Which means that they are in effect losing money.

As far as I know, UK hasn't had any real problems with the IU crowd in previous years and IU hasn't had any problems in Lexington, so I have trouble imagining that any fan behavior in one particular year, which the university President apologized for, was so egregious as to completely nullify a rivalry that went back many generations.

As for that particular game, my guess is that Kentucky fans were in fact treated horribly.
Not to make excuses, but it seemed to be the perfect storm of #1 ranked rival, program trying to reclaim former glory after years of being kicked around and the first opportunity to truly show they were capable of beating someone big, add in a few extra ingredients like a football team that went 1-11(adding more fuel to the fire as essentially anyone associated with Indiana hadn't seen a big win in Football or Basketball in going on 3 years,) and a 6 PM start time which unfortunately gave everyone a little bit too much time to gain as much liquid courage as they could muster. Essentially that crowd was as loud and intense as any I've heard from beginning to end. Unfortunately when the vast majority reach a certain peak, that means that a select few go over the top. For that over the top behavior of a relative minority of fans, Indiana should have apologized AND DID apologize.

The fact of the matter is that even before the game, Kentucky was sowing the seeds of dropping one big game per year, and Calipari didn't seem to care whether it was IU, Louisville, or UNC.

So if you want to believe that it was the behavior of IU fans which killed the rivalrly, then so be it. But my guess is, the ultimate motivator is money. Lots and lots of money.

Hoosier Red
04-30-2012, 09:35 AM
I don't disagree with you at all, AH. The only difference though is you won't see those fans in Rupp Arena, and there is a reason:

When the IU game went on sale, tickets went on sale the day of the game. Games at Rupp go to season ticket holders first, who are mostly older alumni who you have to beg to stand up and cheer. In a way, its a problem I wish we had. There are some changes I would like to see at Rupp when they do the renovations, namely move the older fans into the luxury suites and move the ERupption Zone to the lower level similar to WVU.



I'm not sure what you mean here WVRed, tickets never go on sale the day of the game. The vast majority of student tickets are actually assigned before the game. As I understand it, the student tickets still rotate through a variety of sections. Most ticket packages include one or two games in the balconies, one or two on the floor level seats, and two-four on the main level. As I understand it, only one of the main level sections is General Admission, so you'd actually have to have tickets for that particular area in order to be looking for your seat on the day of the game.

As for the other regrettable behavior, my guess is that it was probably a mix of students and other fans. Unfortunately there are idiots in every crowd, and this particular game seemed to bring out the worst in them.

Having to beg the older fans to stand up and cheer is a familiar issue at IU as well, where somewhere in the middle of Kelvin Sampson's first year of terror, the students generally chanted "Stand up Old People. Clap, Clap, Clap-Clap-Clap"
This caused quite a bit of controversy at the time, and looking back it's really quite amusing that this was the controversy of the time rather than ya know what Kelvin Sampson was doing.

WVRed
04-30-2012, 10:55 AM
I am telling you that the IU administration hasnt forgot about that neutral site game UK renigged on. You think what you want and I will think what I want.........

http://espn.go.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/58430/3-point-shot-kentucky-indiana-impasse

You mentioned this before, but UK and IU agreed since Freedom Hall was being used for something else to have the game be a home and home. The tickets weren't split down the middle, but IU got the chance the year later to make up the difference at Assembly Hall. It's not like UK moved the game to Rupp and then played at the RCA Dome a year later.

I was (and still am) hoping the UNC series would get axed before Indiana. It's not that I don't want to play UNC, it's that with UK's schedule next season, Indiana would have likely been the only quality home game. Louisville, UNC, SEC-Big East Challenge school on the road, as well as Maryland and Duke at neutral sites. Louisville isn't going away, and Indiana is the only home game next season, so UNC makes the most sense.


I'm not sure what you mean here WVRed, tickets never go on sale the day of the game. The vast majority of student tickets are actually assigned before the game. As I understand it, the student tickets still rotate through a variety of sections. Most ticket packages include one or two games in the balconies, one or two on the floor level seats, and two-four on the main level. As I understand it, only one of the main level sections is General Admission, so you'd actually have to have tickets for that particular area in order to be looking for your seat on the day of the game.

As for the other regrettable behavior, my guess is that it was probably a mix of students and other fans. Unfortunately there are idiots in every crowd, and this particular game seemed to bring out the worst in them.

Having to beg the older fans to stand up and cheer is a familiar issue at IU as well, where somewhere in the middle of Kelvin Sampson's first year of terror, the students generally chanted "Stand up Old People. Clap, Clap, Clap-Clap-Clap"
This caused quite a bit of controversy at the time, and looking back it's really quite amusing that this was the controversy of the time rather than ya know what Kelvin Sampson was doing.

I remember watching when the tickets for the IU game went on sale that ESPN said that the tickets went on sale the morning of the game and people had lined up to get the tickets. You know more about the situation than I would, so maybe I read into it completely different. Just sounds like they made the tickets available that morning for the game.

UK has had some student section embarrassments in the past. I still remember Matt Walsh who played for Florida and the student section chanting "Walsh is Gay" and UK issued an apology shortly thereafter. It's kinda tamed down under Cal though. The Louisville game they chanted Ka-Ren Sy-Pher and Bruce Pearl's last game at Rupp "Bruce You-Chea-Ted" and Cal went over to the student section and told them to stop.

Hoosier Red
04-30-2012, 12:02 PM
I remember watching when the tickets for the IU game went on sale that ESPN said that the tickets went on sale the morning of the game and people had lined up to get the tickets. You know more about the situation than I would, so maybe I read into it completely different. Just sounds like they made the tickets available that morning for the game.

UK has had some student section embarrassments in the past. I still remember Matt Walsh who played for Florida and the student section chanting "Walsh is Gay" and UK issued an apology shortly thereafter. It's kinda tamed down under Cal though. The Louisville game they chanted Ka-Ren Sy-Pher and Bruce Pearl's last game at Rupp "Bruce You-Chea-Ted" and Cal went over to the student section and told them to stop.
Yeah I think that was a misinterpretation on ESPN's end(Hard to imagine I know.) The student tickets, and unless I'm mistaken only a certain portion of the student tickets were up in the air regarding the seating.

It's really semantics because for those seats at least, even though the seats were already paid for, it was still general admission so you got there when you got ther.

There had been a number of students camping out earlier in the week for a spot in line and IU put the kibosh on that but granted those who had been camping out "golden tickets" to the front of the line Saturday morning.

WMR
04-30-2012, 02:09 PM
Do you think Cal will win multiple championships at UK? Hopefully a couple kids from next season stick around because 2013 could be another one of those "go for it" years.

WVRed
04-30-2012, 03:03 PM
Do you think Cal will win multiple championships at UK? Hopefully a couple kids from next season stick around because 2013 could be another one of those "go for it" years.

As long as Cal sticks around, yes.

This year coming up I think will be the weakest team Cal has coached. The teams in the past have had youth before, but there has always been senior leadership at some point. This years team doesn't have that luxury.

I see Noel as the only given to go pro after the season. At that point, I think one of Poythress or Bennett (if we get him) would head to the league as well.

Supposedly the Cats are in great with the Harrison twins and possibly Jabari Parker. I think scholarships could be an issue, but talent definitely won't be.

Scrap Irony
04-30-2012, 06:18 PM
I suspect the NBA and NCAA will "agree" to a two-and-through or 20-year-old limit for draftees.

That will impact Kentucky's recruiting fairly significantly.

Assembly Hall
04-30-2012, 06:33 PM
You mentioned this before, but UK and IU agreed since Freedom Hall was being used for something else to have the game be a home and home. The tickets weren't split down the middle, but IU got the chance the year later to make up the difference at Assembly Hall. It's not like UK moved the game to Rupp and then played at the RCA Dome a year later.

What I am saying is because UK did that, it pissed off the IU admininstration. They played the next year in Bloomington and the neutral site thing hasnt been talked about until now. C.M. Newton wanted the game to be played every year at the Dome in Indy. And it was because of the seating capacity. I just hope they get it resolved, but it sickens me to hear UK fans piss and moan about their treatment at that one game. I was at the Dome in 1987 to watch the Hoosiers and 'Cats go at it. There was a mouthy UK fan to my left and a mouthy IU fan a few seats down on my right. They exchanged barbs. The next thing I know me and my friends are getting dowsed with coke because the UK fan missed his target!!!!!! But hey, that's the way it goes at a rivalry game!!!!!!!

I have always respected UK and their program. I hope that this newer generation of UK fans show IU and their program the same courtesy.:beerme:

jmac
04-30-2012, 06:39 PM
I suspect the NBA and NCAA will "agree" to a two-and-through or 20-year-old limit for draftees.
I am really figuring this will come soon. I was hoping it would come before the last group was able to leave. :D

George Foster
04-30-2012, 08:03 PM
I have always respected UK and their program. I hope that this newer generation of UK fans show IU and their program the same courtesy.:beerme:

you mean the way IU fans treated UK fans in Bloomington this past year??:thumbdown:

Assembly Hall
04-30-2012, 09:11 PM
you mean the way IU fans treated UK fans in Bloomington this past year??:thumbdown:


How about the way they treated me and my friends 20 years ago? I guess it is a what have you done for me lately world.

WVRed
04-30-2012, 11:00 PM
What I am saying is because UK did that, it pissed off the IU admininstration. They played the next year in Bloomington and the neutral site thing hasnt been talked about until now. C.M. Newton wanted the game to be played every year at the Dome in Indy. And it was because of the seating capacity. I just hope they get it resolved, but it sickens me to hear UK fans piss and moan about their treatment at that one game. I was at the Dome in 1987 to watch the Hoosiers and 'Cats go at it. There was a mouthy UK fan to my left and a mouthy IU fan a few seats down on my right. They exchanged barbs. The next thing I know me and my friends are getting dowsed with coke because the UK fan missed his target!!!!!! But hey, that's the way it goes at a rivalry game!!!!!!!

I have always respected UK and their program. I hope that this newer generation of UK fans show IU and their program the same courtesy.:beerme:

The only complaint I personally had about the game wasn't the fan treatment but rushing the court. It would have been one thing if the game was decided (aka Florida State-UNC earlier in the season), but one of the UK players was on the ground (Darius Miller) and I'm surprised wasn't trampled by celebrating fans. The first thing running through my mind once the buzzer sounded was the UK players needed to get off the court in a hurry.

As for the fans, it comes with the territory, as long as it doesn't get out of hand. I live in West Virginia so believe me when I say IU fans don't even come close to what I have seen and heard. Any UK fan who suggests otherwise hasn't spent much time outside the state. To me it's no different than being a Bengals fan and going to a Steelers game in Pittsburgh. You know the risk when you set foot in the stadium.

I'd rather see the UNC series dissolved first, and that may still happen. If the IU series is dissolved, I would like to see Ohio State replace them on the schedule. I think the Buckeyes could replace Indiana as a border rivalry with their focus toward basketball.

LexRedsFan
04-30-2012, 11:42 PM
What I am saying is because UK did that, it pissed off the IU admininstration.

Don't blame us. Blame Louisville. They had rights to Freedom the day of and the day before all their women's and men's game and essentially blocked us from being able to use the arena.

It's the same reason that the game would be played at Freedom now instead of Yum!

Assembly Hall
05-01-2012, 06:22 AM
The only complaint I personally had about the game wasn't the fan treatment but rushing the court. It would have been one thing if the game was decided (aka Florida State-UNC earlier in the season), but one of the UK players was on the ground (Darius Miller) and I'm surprised wasn't trampled by celebrating fans. The first thing running through my mind once the buzzer sounded was the UK players needed to get off the court in a hurry.

As for the fans, it comes with the territory, as long as it doesn't get out of hand. I live in West Virginia so believe me when I say IU fans don't even come close to what I have seen and heard. Any UK fan who suggests otherwise hasn't spent much time outside the state. To me it's no different than being a Bengals fan and going to a Steelers game in Pittsburgh. You know the risk when you set foot in the stadium.

I'd rather see the UNC series dissolved first, and that may still happen. If the IU series is dissolved, I would like to see Ohio State replace them on the schedule. I think the Buckeyes could replace Indiana as a border rivalry with their focus toward basketball.

Dang, I like your writing style!!!!!:thumbup:

As far as Ohio St. What does their schedule look like? I thought they had home and homes with Florida and Kansas. And they will probably draw a quality opponent in the ACC-B1G challenge.

Assembly Hall
05-01-2012, 06:30 AM
Don't blame us. Blame Louisville. They had rights to Freedom the day of and the day before all their women's and men's game and essentially blocked us from being able to use the arena.

It's the same reason that the game would be played at Freedom now instead of Yum!

It is not my job to pass out blame. I am just saying what the IU regime thought about it at the time. Had that game been played at Louisville, the neutral site theme would have continued and last years game would have been in Indy. And we wouldnt be having this discussion right now. But it is what it is and cant be changed now. Time to move on.

WVRed
05-01-2012, 10:56 AM
Don't blame us. Blame Louisville. They had rights to Freedom the day of and the day before all their women's and men's game and essentially blocked us from being able to use the arena.

It's the same reason that the game would be played at Freedom now instead of Yum!

I don't think Little Brother had anything to do with it, IIRC. There was a concert or some event that conflicted with the UK-IU game and they moved it to Rupp. Could be wrong though.


Dang, I like your writing style!!!!!:thumbup:

As far as Ohio St. What does their schedule look like? I thought they had home and homes with Florida and Kansas. And they will probably draw a quality opponent in the ACC-B1G challenge.

From what I've checked, they have a home game against Kansas but I think last year was the last time they played Florida. They are playing in the Moehegan Sun tournament that UK played in last season.

Assembly Hall
05-01-2012, 06:43 PM
WV, I looked at their schedule from last year. They played 3 quality OOC opponents. FLA at home, Duke at home, and at Kansas. So if the FLA series is done that leaves Kansas at home and on the road for the ACC/B1G challenge. They very well might be looking for some other quality opponent, but if they play UK where is the game gonna be? I doubt Thad will go for a neutral site??????????

WVRed
05-01-2012, 10:00 PM
WV, I looked at their schedule from last year. They played 3 quality OOC opponents. FLA at home, Duke at home, and at Kansas. So if the FLA series is done that leaves Kansas at home and on the road for the ACC/B1G challenge. They very well might be looking for some other quality opponent, but if they play UK where is the game gonna be? I doubt Thad will go for a neutral site??????????

Just going by what I read.

I'd go with Cincinnati. Like Louisville, it shares a border with the neighboring state and would be central for both fanbases.

I don't know if Ohio State would go for a neutral site format or not. Quicken Loans Arena would be the biggest arena in the state but not a central location. I would go for a Home and Home though, although if they didn't do it with Indiana, would tOSU go for it?

dabvu2498
05-01-2012, 10:28 PM
Just going by what I read.

I'd go with Cincinnati. Like Louisville, it shares a border with the neighboring state and would be central for both fanbases.

I don't know if Ohio State would go for a neutral site format or not. Quicken Loans Arena would be the biggest arena in the state but not a central location. I would go for a Home and Home though, although if they didn't do it with Indiana, would tOSU go for it?

Cincinnati doesn't have a suitable venue. The downtown arena isn't fit for a big-time game. It's kinda gross, actually.

Cleveland and Lousiville would be the only choices for neutral sites.

Assembly Hall
05-02-2012, 06:31 AM
Cincinnati doesn't have a suitable venue. The downtown arena isn't fit for a big-time game. It's kinda gross, actually.

Cleveland and Lousiville would be the only choices for neutral sites.

Indianapolis????????

dabvu2498
05-02-2012, 06:39 AM
Indianapolis????????

Meh. Kentucky and Ohio State playing in Indianapolis? Meh.

RiverRat13
05-02-2012, 08:55 AM
This isn't a knock on UK or any school in particular but since it has come up in this thread... college games should be played on college campuses. The trend of playing big match-ups on a neutral floor is alarming to me and I'd imagine also to season ticket holders.

Scrap Irony
05-02-2012, 09:07 AM
This isn't a knock on UK or any school in particular but since it has come up in this thread... college games should be played on college campuses. The trend of playing big match-ups on a neutral floor is alarming to me and I'd imagine also to season ticket holders.

Playing on neutral floors helps better prepare teams for the NCAA tournament-- which is kinda the point of it all. As a coach, you do your best for your kids, not for the university's perceived state of mind. Neutral sites also tend to help financially those programs that typically sell out home dates and also gives a national TV and recruiting boost, especially if those neutral games are in a recruit's backyard.

Having said that, I think keeping all college games on campus would have been a great idea. However, it's long since gone. It went the way of the Dodo when big money reared its head. The NCAA (and her parent universities) are chasing billions and obviously care not a whit about education or helping young people.

RiverRat13
05-02-2012, 10:29 AM
Playing on neutral floors helps better prepare teams for the NCAA tournament-- which is kinda the point of it all. As a coach, you do your best for your kids, not for the university's perceived state of mind.

I think the adversity of playing on another team's home floor better prepares a team (i.e. toughens them up) than a neutral site game.

I don't see how a neutral floor helps TV ratings. I don't think more people would have turned into UNC at UK had it been played in Nashville, Charlotte, or Louisville. The recruiting argument holds some weight although coaches could certainly just schedule a home-and-home with a team in a particular area they would like to recruit. I like the early tournaments (Great Alaska, Preseason NIT) but I'm just not a fan of moving more and more games off campuses.

WVRed
05-02-2012, 11:52 AM
I think the adversity of playing on another team's home floor better prepares a team (i.e. toughens them up) than a neutral site game.

I don't see how a neutral floor helps TV ratings. I don't think more people would have turned into UNC at UK had it been played in Nashville, Charlotte, or Louisville. The recruiting argument holds some weight although coaches could certainly just schedule a home-and-home with a team in a particular area they would like to recruit. I like the early tournaments (Great Alaska, Preseason NIT) but I'm just not a fan of moving more and more games off campuses.

Yes and no. I see your point on playing in a hostile environment, but playing in a NBA or NFL arena does so much more for getting a team ready for tournament time.

Lucas Oil Stadium seats 70,000. Rupp seats 23,500 and Assembly Hall seats 17,500. Just by the sheer size of playing in a NFL stadium is equally as intimidating, and it prepares teams for March when the regional sites and the Final Four will likely be played in massive arenas anyways.

Not to mention the attraction of recruits. I'd like to see some of these out of conference games set up in NBA arenas. The kids who come to Kentucky are coming to get exposure and get prepared to play in the NBA, so why not give these kids the experience of playing in a NBA venue?

Scrap Irony
05-02-2012, 11:54 AM
I think the adversity of playing on another team's home floor better prepares a team (i.e. toughens them up) than a neutral site game.

I don't see how a neutral floor helps TV ratings. I don't think more people would have turned into UNC at UK had it been played in Nashville, Charlotte, or Louisville. The recruiting argument holds some weight although coaches could certainly just schedule a home-and-home with a team in a particular area they would like to recruit. I like the early tournaments (Great Alaska, Preseason NIT) but I'm just not a fan of moving more and more games off campuses.

There are no home games in the tourney and neutral site games are often played in large arenas. Both of those trump any perceived "toughness" gained by being spit on, cursed at, and generally abused by fans of opposing teams. You get enough of that in conference rivalry games.

TV decisions are often based on geography and "big" regular -season games, a la Maui, Alaska, Mohegan, and Puerto Rico Tournaments. Too, you have games played at MSG and often elsewhere early in the season that ensure national games on either ESPN or one of the four free channel networks. The bigger the stage, the more likely it's televised over a larger section of the country.

For example, two years ago, Kentucky went to Portland to play at the Rose Garden versus the University of Portland. That game was picked up by ESPN and broadcast as its game of the week. If that game is in Lexington or at the Chiles Center, it doesn't get TV outside of the Big Blue Network or perhaps Fox Sports South.

RiverRat13
05-02-2012, 01:50 PM
For example, two years ago, Kentucky went to Portland to play at the Rose Garden versus the University of Portland. That game was picked up by ESPN and broadcast as its game of the week. If that game is in Lexington or at the Chiles Center, it doesn't get TV outside of the Big Blue Network or perhaps Fox Sports South.

I don't buy this. That game was picked up because it was the only decent game at 10:30 PM EST. If the game is on Portland's campus, it gets picked up. ESPN jumped at the chance to get Kentucky on at that late of an hour, not because of the venue.

cumberlandreds
05-02-2012, 01:54 PM
I don't buy this. That game was picked up because it was the only decent game at 10:30 PM EST. If the game is on Portland's campus, it gets picked up. ESPN jumped at the chance to get Kentucky on at that late of an hour, not because of the venue.

No, it would have never been picked up by ESPN if it was on Portlands campus. Because UK would have never played them unless it was played at the Rose Garden.

RiverRat13
05-02-2012, 01:55 PM
No, it would have never been picked up by ESPN if it was on Portlands campus. Because UK would have never played them unless it was played at the Rose Garden.

True.

cumberlandreds
05-02-2012, 02:09 PM
True.

The only two mid major type teams I have ever known UK to play on their home courts was Ohio and Canisius. Both were opening new arenas IIRC and wanted UK as their opponent. UK obliged and gave them a loss to christen their new arena.

Assembly Hall
05-02-2012, 03:27 PM
Meh. Kentucky and Ohio State playing in Indianapolis? Meh.

LOL. It was just a thought. Where is the "hiding under a chair" smilie? I could use that right about now!;)

Revering4Blue
05-02-2012, 03:31 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a requirement that any NCAA Tournament Venue must host a regular season NCAA game during said season?

That may explain certain neutral floor regular season matchups.

As for IU/UK, forget the home-and-home series if that's what it takes. Louisville is the perfect venue for IU/UK, at least IMO.

Assembly Hall
05-02-2012, 03:54 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't there a requirement that any NCAA Tournament Venue must host a regular season NCAA game during said season?

That may explain certain neutral floor regular season matchups.

As for IU/UK, forget the home-and-home series if that's what it takes. Louisville is the perfect venue for IU/UK, at least IMO.


I dont know about that Revering. But I dont really think it has anything to do with neutral site match-ups period. It comes down to money and coaches afraid of losing. I remember the year after IU got beat by Maryland for the championship, they matched up in the challenge. Maryland refused to play at Assembly. The game was moved to Indy. Duke refused to play at Illinois one time in the challenge and the game was moved to Chicago. And there are other instances where it is just about revenue. In the IU/UK match-up they knew they could fill the dome. 60,000 seats split down the middle. A lot of cash flowing there.

I am with ya on your last part. Louisville is perfect. We need some cooler heads to just Git-R-Done. I really think this rivalry was the best in college basketball from the mid 70's until the early 90's. I know I am biased, but I will be pissed if it comes to an end.

On another note. Here in Indiana they started a crossroads tournament. This past year IU played Notre Dame and Purdue played Butler(Moving to the A-10 BTW). I think that would be great for an alternative solution for IU/UK's impasse. The border challenge. Louisville and UK matched up against IU and Purdue/Notre Dame. I am placing my ticket order right now!!!!!!!!!

WMR
05-02-2012, 05:38 PM
Cats going to the White House on Friday...

Recruiting is dragging on right now... Still hopeful we add 2 players. Bennett and Lyons would probably be my first choice at this point. Apparently Lyons is down to UK and Zona. He can fill it up.

WVRed
05-02-2012, 11:25 PM
On another note. Here in Indiana they started a crossroads tournament. This past year IU played Notre Dame and Purdue played Butler(Moving to the A-10 BTW). I think that would be great for an alternative solution for IU/UK's impasse. The border challenge. Louisville and UK matched up against IU and Purdue/Notre Dame. I am placing my ticket order right now!!!!!!!!!

The only problem would be it would have to be Purdue (or Butler) if you want to have an IU-UK game. I'm sure Notre Dame and Louisville wouldn't go for facing each other before conference play.

I do like the Crossroads Classic idea that Indiana did and I would like to see Kentucky do something similar in-state. Only problem is outside of Kentucky and Louisville, not a lot of competitive teams on a consistent basis. Murray State is good now, but two years from now it could be WKU, Morehead, or none of the above.

Assembly Hall
05-03-2012, 07:03 AM
The only problem would be it would have to be Purdue (or Butler) if you want to have an IU-UK game. I'm sure Notre Dame and Louisville wouldn't go for facing each other before conference play.

I do like the Crossroads Classic idea that Indiana did and I would like to see Kentucky do something similar in-state. Only problem is outside of Kentucky and Louisville, not a lot of competitive teams on a consistent basis. Murray State is good now, but two years from now it could be WKU, Morehead, or none of the above.

A few years back. IU and Purdue played OOC due to the fact they only met once during the conference season. That Big East schedule is so messed up, you play most everybody only once. But you are right I dont think either would go for it. Scratch Notre Dame and insert Purdue(or Butler).

I dont know how many D-1 schools Kentucky has, but I have always liked the idea of having an in-state tournament here in Indiana and running like Maui. IU, Purdue, Notre Dame, Butler, Valpo, Ball State, Indiana State, and Evansville should make for a good one.

WVRed
05-03-2012, 02:56 PM
Looks like the series is officially dead.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7886942/indiana-hoosiers-kentucky-wildcats-series-ending-venue-disagreement

FWIW, I don't blame IU for wanting a home and home. Kentucky wanted the neutral site because of revenue, and a home and home series provided no new revenue for UK because we sell out Rupp regardless. A two year agreement at Lucas Oil Stadium would have provided double the IU fans the opportunity to watch the Hoosiers play in person, but would have taken away the home crowd factor with a sea of blue across the stadium.

Not to mention, Kentucky went 12-3 in the 15 years of the neutral site. Hopefully we meet up in March again.

cumberlandreds
05-03-2012, 02:59 PM
Looks like the series is officially dead.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7886942/indiana-hoosiers-kentucky-wildcats-series-ending-venue-disagreement (http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7886942/indiana-hoosiers-kentucky-wildcats-series-ending-venue-disagreement)

FWIW, I don't blame IU for wanting a home and home. Kentucky wanted the neutral site because of revenue, and a home and home series provided no new revenue for UK because we sell out Rupp regardless. A two year agreement at Lucas Oil Stadium would have provided double the IU fans the opportunity to watch the Hoosiers play in person, but would have taken away the home crowd factor with a sea of blue across the stadium.

Not to mention, Kentucky went 12-3 in the 15 years of the neutral site. Hopefully we meet up in March again.

I'm hearing the UNC series is dead too. Looks like UK wants to only play the big boys on neutral sites.

New York Red
05-03-2012, 04:09 PM
With conference expansion, look for stuff like this to become the norm. I hate to see the UK/IU series end, but I'm assuming that's just temporary. Everyone wants to play UK, but we can't play home-and-home series with everyone. We've had more home-and-home series against top schools over the years (UofL, IU, UNC, Michigan State, Kansas, etc) than anyone else in the country. We are also now in the Champions Classic three-year deal (vs Kansas last year, vs Duke next year and vs Michigan State the following year). I don't know which direction our schedule goes from here, but playing 21 conference games beginning next year (including the tourney) has definitely changed the way you draw up the OOC portion of the slate.

Scrap Irony
05-03-2012, 04:31 PM
If the state could have an in-state tournament built around the UK-U of L game, how cool would that be?

Schedule those in-state teams that look to be best for that year (next season looks like Murray and WKU), play one game on one Saturday/ Sunday, another on Wednesday, then the Dream Game on the next weekend.

Four teams at Yum! three days out of eight would be similar to the NCAA and create a buzz throughout the state.

cumberlandreds
05-04-2012, 08:00 AM
I really hate to see the UNC series come to an end. I really liked one. Usually those two were two of the best in the country. They really should have been able to get together to keep this one going.
As for the IU series I could care less about it anymore. Since Knight was canned it had lost its luster. I think it was time to move on from that series and maybe go back to Kansas for a while.

Hoosier Red
05-04-2012, 08:36 AM
I really hate to see the UNC series come to an end. I really liked one. Usually those two were two of the best in the country. They really should have been able to get together to keep this one going.
As for the IU series I could care less about it anymore. Since Knight was canned it had lost its luster. I think it was time to move on from that series and maybe go back to Kansas for a while.

It will be interersting to see who Kansas wants to line up first as I've heard both IU and UK are in negotiations to play them.

Maybe inadvertantly Bill Self might come up with a Michigan State style schedule where he plays IU, UK, and tOSU before Christmas.

cumberlandreds
05-04-2012, 09:00 AM
It will be interersting to see who Kansas wants to line up first as I've heard both IU and UK are in negotiations to play them.

Maybe inadvertantly Bill Self might come up with a Michigan State style schedule where he plays IU, UK, and tOSU before Christmas.

Kansas will play Michigan State in the Champions Classic this year opposite of the UK/Duke game.

BuckeyeRed27
05-04-2012, 11:32 AM
I wonder why IU and UK couldn't come to some sort of compromise and basically do both neutral sites and home sites. If you have a long term contract just have two years of home sites and then the next two years of neutral sites. Everybody wins.

Assembly Hall
05-04-2012, 05:17 PM
I wonder why IU and UK couldn't come to some sort of compromise and basically do both neutral sites and home sites. If you have a long term contract just have two years of home sites and then the next two years of neutral sites. Everybody wins.

Personally I just wish IU would have said ok to Lucas Oil Stadium. But it is what it is.

gilpdawg
05-05-2012, 06:16 AM
Looks like the series is officially dead.

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/7886942/indiana-hoosiers-kentucky-wildcats-series-ending-venue-disagreement

FWIW, I don't blame IU for wanting a home and home. Kentucky wanted the neutral site because of revenue, and a home and home series provided no new revenue for UK because we sell out Rupp regardless. A two year agreement at Lucas Oil Stadium would have provided double the IU fans the opportunity to watch the Hoosiers play in person, but would have taken away the home crowd factor with a sea of blue across the stadium.

Not to mention, Kentucky went 12-3 in the 15 years of the neutral site. Hopefully we meet up in March again.

Funny, they didn't have a problem coming to Bloomington when they were kicking IU in the teeth every year.

jmac
05-05-2012, 09:02 AM
Anthony Bennett cut Forida from his list which is now down to Kentucky, UNLV and Oregon.
This is very surprising as Florida and KY were considered 2 frontrunners with it being 50/50 as to where he would choose.
Hopefully this bodes well for KY.

WMR
05-05-2012, 03:55 PM
Funny, they didn't have a problem coming to Bloomington when they were kicking IU in the teeth every year.

Playing it home and home or at neutral venues has never stopped UK from "kicking IU in the teeth" as you so eloquently put it.

Hell, we offered to play both neutral games in the state of Indiana...

Cal said he would not bring a team back to Bloomington and I'm glad he stuck to his guns.

Assembly Hall
05-05-2012, 10:04 PM
Playing it home and home or at neutral venues has never stopped UK from "kicking IU in the teeth" as you so eloquently put it.

Hell, we offered to play both neutral games in the state of Indiana...

Cal said he would not bring a team back to Bloomington and I'm glad he stuck to his guns.

LMAO!!!!!!! Go back and look at the history of the series. You might find an interesting thing or two when it comes to the neutral court thing. Do your homework well my friend.

WVRed
05-05-2012, 10:42 PM
Anthony Bennett cut Forida from his list which is now down to Kentucky, UNLV and Oregon.
This is very surprising as Florida and KY were considered 2 frontrunners with it being 50/50 as to where he would choose.
Hopefully this bodes well for KY.

In the words of Jerry Tipton, this does not bode well for John Calipari and the University of Kentucky.

Word is Bennett doesn't have the grades. I look for UNLV to be the pick.

Assembly Hall
05-06-2012, 10:37 AM
In the words of Jerry Tipton, this does not bode well for John Calipari and the University of Kentucky.

Word is Bennett doesn't have the grades. I look for UNLV to be the pick.

Interesting. I am impressed.

jmac
05-06-2012, 02:52 PM
In the words of Jerry Tipton, this does not bode well for John Calipari and the University of Kentucky.

Word is Bennett doesn't have the grades. I look for UNLV to be the pick.

Thanks...wasnt aware of this. :thumbup:

dabvu2498
05-06-2012, 03:35 PM
Lyons will be a Wildcat. An Arizona Wildcat, that is.

New York Red
05-06-2012, 07:33 PM
Bennett will likely be a partial qualifier, which means he isn't eligible to play in the SEC. However, UNLV accepts partial qualifiers, so I'm assuming Bennett will be a Rebel.

New York Red
05-06-2012, 07:39 PM
Got this from another site. Based on the 7 most successful programs ever (UK, UNC, UCLA, Duke, Kansas, Indiana and Louisville) here is the total number of OOC scheduled games each has played versus each other since 2000):

Kentucky - 45
Indiana - 20 (13 of those versus UK)
North Carolina - 18 (12 of those versus UK)
Louisville - 15 (13 of those versus UK)
UCLA - 10
Kansas - 10
Duke - 6

Those are some mind-boggling numbers.

Assembly Hall
05-07-2012, 06:59 AM
Got this from another site. Based on the 7 most successful programs ever (UK, UNC, UCLA, Duke, Kansas, Indiana and Louisville) here is the total number of OOC scheduled games each has played versus each other since 2000):

Kentucky - 45
Indiana - 20 (13 of those versus UK)
North Carolina - 18 (12 of those versus UK)
Louisville - 15 (13 of those versus UK)
UCLA - 10
Kansas - 10
Duke - 6

Those are some mind-boggling numbers.

I would like to see the same numbers going back to 1980 or 1990. IU had a series with Carolina in the early eighties, a series with Louisville in the mid 80's, and a series with Kansas in the early 90's.

RiverRat13
05-08-2012, 09:19 AM
Bennett will likely be a partial qualifier, which means he isn't eligible to play in the SEC. However, UNLV accepts partial qualifiers, so I'm assuming Bennett will be a Rebel.

There was a better than average chance he was going to UNLV no matter what but this pretty much seals the deal.

WVRed
05-08-2012, 09:34 AM
There was a better than average chance he was going to UNLV no matter what, but this pretty much seals the deal.

Not really. Everybody thought it was between Florida and Kentucky. Then it came out he was a partial qualifier and attitude issues. He wants to be "the guy", which doesn't really fly with Calipari at Kentucky.

New York Red
05-08-2012, 04:36 PM
I would like to see the same numbers going back to 1980 or 1990. IU had a series with Carolina in the early eighties, a series with Louisville in the mid 80's, and a series with Kansas in the early 90's.
If you include the 80's and 90's, the gap between UK and the other six schools becomes even wider. UK has always scheduled one way while the rest of the top schools scheduled another way. Those other schools were never criticized for it, but now that UK is apparently going to start scheduling the way everyone else always has, they're taking heat for it. It's ridiculous.

Assembly Hall
05-08-2012, 06:33 PM
If you include the 80's and 90's, the gap between UK and the other six schools becomes even wider. UK has always scheduled one way while the rest of the top schools scheduled another way. Those other schools were never criticized for it, but now that UK is apparently going to start scheduling the way everyone else always has, they're taking heat for it. It's ridiculous.

I dont think so. You are forgetting about a few things here. Starting with 1980.......Duke was nothing, UCLA had fallin' on hard times after the '80 season, and Kansas had fallen off the map until 1988.

I looked up IU's schedule dating back to 1980. Here are the number of times IU played the top teams on that list in OOC match-ups not counting the NCAA or NIT.....

UK........32 times
Louisville.......6
UNC.........5
Kansas....5
Duke......4
UCLA......1

The rest of the schools scheduled one way and Kentucky scheduled another? UK is now doing what the other schools have been doing for years? Not so fast my friend. IU played Notre Dame year in and year out back when they were a powerhouse in the 70's into the early 80's. IU played Cincinnati the year they both made it to the FF back in '92. IU had UCONN on their schedule for a couple of years. IU started playing Butler when the rose to prominence. IU was playing Southern Illinois when they were good. IU had a series with Mizzou. IU had a series with DePaul. IU had a series with UNC-Charlotte. IU played a long standing series against UTEP.......etc.

All I am saying is the college landscape changes from year to year. Dont hang hats on those upper tier programs when they were down. I noticed that UK played Kansas in a series in the early 80's. Kansas sucked.

Kentucky is no different than any of the "traditional schools" out there, save Duke(they are in a class by themselves when it comes to scheduling for the past 10 years).

The wife is calling. I love these kind of discussions. Will check back in tomorrow.

New York Red
05-08-2012, 07:43 PM
UK also had a longstanding series with Notre Dame back then, when the Irish were strong. We played home-and-home series with Kansas when they were strong as well. UK has always scheduled this way. We have occasionally had home-and-home series over a period of years with programs such as Michigan State as well, and I'm talking since Izzo made them a top ten program. No other school has ever scheduled top programs on a regular basis at the rate UK has, and the numbers in this thread bear that out. I'm not suggesting we are above everyone else schedule-wise. My point is, we are being criticized because we are going to start scheduling the way everyone else always has.

I read somewhere awhile back that Duke has scheduled something like two games in the past twenty years on a ranked OOC opponent's court. I might have the numbers wrong, but it was something ridiculous like that. But of course, does the national media ever call out Coach K for it? We both know the answer to that. Just like nothing was made of the Corey Maggette scandal at Duke. Some coaches and programs are untouchable when it comes to media scrutiny. See the current academic fraud scandal at UNC for yet another example.

OK, I'm getting sidetracked -- my apologies. I do applaud IU for being second on that list I posted though. I just hope the UK/IU series is back on the schedule very soon. It's the best college basketball border rivalry in the country and no one else is even close.

dabvu2498
05-08-2012, 08:34 PM
This is interesting:


In this position, Calipari is mirroring the stance his BFF Rick Pitino (sarcasm) took when he was Kentucky coach.
When Ricky P. inherited the UK job (1989-90), Kentucky was annually playing Louisville, Indiana, Notre Dame, North Carolina AND Kansas.
Pitino quickly shed the home-and-homes with UNC and KU. He began playing Indiana at neutral sites.
Kentucky replaced Carolina and Kansas with one-time games against the likes of UCLA, Maryland, Massachusetts (with Calipari and Marcus Camby), Clemson and Purdue at neutral sites.

http://www.kentucky.com/2012/05/08/2180250/truth-and-fiction-of-uks-scheduling.html#storylink=cpy

It will be interesting to see how they fill the void of the IU series. If it's against ho-hum opponents in neutral sites a-la Duke (St. John's, Valpo, Washington, Oregon, Iowa State, Temple), then bah-humbug.

New York Red
05-08-2012, 10:37 PM
"Kentucky was annually playing Louisville, Indiana, Notre Dame, North Carolina AND Kansas."

LOL ... think about that for a minute. Seriously, think about that.

WMR
05-09-2012, 03:08 AM
LMAO!!!!!!! Go back and look at the history of the series. You might find an interesting thing or two when it comes to the neutral court thing. Do your homework well my friend.

UK went 12-3 vs. IU at neutral sites between 1991 and 2005.

Is that really cause for laughter for IU fans? :confused:

gilpdawg
05-09-2012, 03:40 AM
College basketball, unless it's the tournament, and you can't really do it then, belongs on campus whenever possible. Who wants to go see Indiana and Kentucky in cavernous, horrible for basketball Lucas Oil Stadium anyway? (or the Hoosier Dome before that)

I always thought the neutral court thing was stupid.

They can say what they want publicly, but in reality I believe that Crean and Cal just don't want to play each other.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think you'll see them play again until one of those coaches move on. And it's a shame, but that's ok, we've still got the Indiana-Kentucky All Star games, and that's one series that we Hoosiers will always have the upper hand in. :)

Assembly Hall
05-09-2012, 06:45 AM
UK also had a longstanding series with Notre Dame back then, when the Irish were strong. We played home-and-home series with Kansas when they were strong as well. UK has always scheduled this way. We have occasionally had home-and-home series over a period of years with programs such as Michigan State as well, and I'm talking since Izzo made them a top ten program. No other school has ever scheduled top programs on a regular basis at the rate UK has, and the numbers in this thread bear that out. I'm not suggesting we are above everyone else schedule-wise. My point is, we are being criticized because we are going to start scheduling the way everyone else always has.

I read somewhere awhile back that Duke has scheduled something like two games in the past twenty years on a ranked OOC opponent's court. I might have the numbers wrong, but it was something ridiculous like that. But of course, does the national media ever call out Coach K for it? We both know the answer to that. Just like nothing was made of the Corey Maggette scandal at Duke. Some coaches and programs are untouchable when it comes to media scrutiny. See the current academic fraud scandal at UNC for yet another example.

OK, I'm getting sidetracked -- my apologies. I do applaud IU for being second on that list I posted though. I just hope the UK/IU series is back on the schedule very soon. It's the best college basketball border rivalry in the country and no one else is even close.

Yeah, I did look some of UK's schedule up and was quite impressed. I was amazed at how many Big Ten schools they scheduled in the early to mid 80's.

I dont even want to talk about Duke. I feel they make their schedule up every year just to get a #1 seed in the tournament.

I will take your IU comment there at the end as a compliment and concur on the rivalry, no one else is even close.

Assembly Hall
05-09-2012, 06:50 AM
UK went 12-3 vs. IU at neutral sites between 1991 and 2005.

Is that really cause for laughter for IU fans? :confused:


As I stated earlier numbers can be misleading. In those years IU had 2 great teams and 3 Top 25 caliber teams. And if I am not mistaken one of those wins by IU was when Damon Bailey was a senior and UK was ranked #1. IU had gotten beat by Butler the week before.

Assembly Hall
05-09-2012, 07:03 AM
This is interesting:



http://www.kentucky.com/2012/05/08/2180250/truth-and-fiction-of-uks-scheduling.html#storylink=cpy

It will be interesting to see how they fill the void of the IU series. If it's against ho-hum opponents in neutral sites a-la Duke (St. John's, Valpo, Washington, Oregon, Iowa State, Temple), then bah-humbug.

I enjoyed reading that.

Joseph
05-09-2012, 02:35 PM
As I stated earlier numbers can be misleading. In those years IU had 2 great teams and 3 Top 25 caliber teams. And if I am not mistaken one of those wins by IU was when Damon Bailey was a senior and UK was ranked #1. IU had gotten beat by Butler the week before.

How is that misleading? If in fact 12-3 is the accurate record, then it is what it is. Black and white. IU is IU and UK is UK. UK beat IU. There's nothing misleading about that. That doesn't mean UK was great or IU was bad, it just means UK was better 12 of 15 times.

Hoosier Red
05-09-2012, 03:35 PM
I think he means its misleading in terms of where the teams are now. The original charge was that Calipari was running scared, which would normally look preposterous considering UK won 80% of the games over the last 15 years.

I'm not saying that the running scared charge is right, there are a lot of things going into it, but UK is not as far ahead of IU right now as a 12-3 record would indicate.

Assembly Hall
05-09-2012, 05:45 PM
How is that misleading? If in fact 12-3 is the accurate record, then it is what it is. Black and white. IU is IU and UK is UK. UK beat IU. There's nothing misleading about that. That doesn't mean UK was great or IU was bad, it just means UK was better 12 of 15 times.

There was a post about the Top 7 programs of all time. And there was another post about how UK and the other 6 stacked up against each other, record wise and how many times they had played amongst themselves. My point was about misleading is that IU wasnt a top notch program for all of those neutral court match-ups for 15 years. And IU was bad quite a few of those times.....and that is a fact. I aint making excuses, but simply saying that IU wasnt that good, and UK sure as hell didnt hang their hat on a lot of those victories. So to me the numbers are misleading. In the end, UK beat a Top 7 program that at the time wasnt even Top 27. If I am confusing you dont worry about it.......I am starting to confuse myself. But it was in no way a knock on UK's scheduling.

WVRed
05-09-2012, 09:18 PM
There was a post about the Top 7 programs of all time. And there was another post about how UK and the other 6 stacked up against each other, record wise and how many times they had played amongst themselves. My point was about misleading is that IU wasnt a top notch program for all of those neutral court match-ups for 15 years. And IU was bad quite a few of those times.....and that is a fact. I aint making excuses, but simply saying that IU wasnt that good, and UK sure as hell didnt hang their hat on a lot of those victories. So to me the numbers are misleading. In the end, UK beat a Top 7 program that at the time wasnt even Top 27. If I am confusing you dont worry about it.......I am starting to confuse myself. But it was in no way a knock on UK's scheduling.

Didn't the neutral court also extend into Kentucky's probation? If so, that kinda evens the playing field.

Assembly Hall
05-10-2012, 06:19 AM
Didn't the neutral court also extend into Kentucky's probation? If so, that kinda evens the playing field.

No, the neutral court series that is being talked about started the 91-92 season. The year UK got beat by Duke in the elite 8, and IU got beat by them in the FF.

However, there was a neutral site game 87-88 season at the Dome. They played at Kentucky in 88-89. They then played a neutral site game in 89-90. They played at Indiana in 90-91.