PDA

View Full Version : Jay Bruce



dubc47834
04-21-2011, 01:39 PM
Jay Bruce is a polarizing figure among Reds fans, some call him Jaybust, some think he is the next star, and if he is not that then he will be looked at as a failure. I say, why does he have to be a star. Why can't he be an average to slightly above average player who plays his butt off. The way he plays is not due to a lack of effort, no one that I know of has ever questioned that. I know the baseball Gods said he was the next Babe Ruth( kidding on Babe Ruth, but you get the picture), I would be happy with a career of yearly totals of .265-285 avg, 20-30 homers, 75-100 rbi's, and 70-90 runs. I hope he can be a star, but the totals we had from Bruce by years end last year were pretty good. There are times when he can carry the team for 2-3 weeks. I say cut the kid some slack, he plays his butt off. If most of us worked as hard as he plays we would be CEO of the company. :beerme:

signalhome
04-21-2011, 01:43 PM
Jay Bruce is a polarizing figure among Reds fans, some call him Jaybust, some think he is the next star, and if he is not that then he will be looked at as a failure. I say, why does he have to be a star. Why can't he be an average to slightly above average player who plays his butt off. The way he plays is not due to a lack of effort, no one that I know of has ever questioned that. I know the baseball Gods said he was the next Babe Ruth( kidding on Babe Ruth, but you get the picture), I would be happy with a career of yearly totals of .265-285 avg, 20-30 homers, 75-100 rbi's, and 70-90 runs. I hope he can be a star, but the totals we had from Bruce by years end last year were pretty good. There are times when he can carry the team for 2-3 weeks. I say cut the kid some slack, he plays his butt off. If most of us worked as hard as he plays we would be CEO of the company. :beerme:

It's the same thing that plagued Adam Dunn. All anyone wanted to do was deride him for what he didn't do instead of praise him for what he does well. If Bruce doesn't become a top 5 MVP candidate (not likely, but still entirely possible), I think a lot of people will look at him as a bust, and that just isn't fair.

Oxblood
04-21-2011, 02:15 PM
Jay Bruce is a polarizing figure among Reds fans, some call him Jaybust, some think he is the next star, and if he is not that then he will be looked at as a failure. I say, why does he have to be a star. Why can't he be an average to slightly above average player who plays his butt off. The way he plays is not due to a lack of effort, no one that I know of has ever questioned that. I know the baseball Gods said he was the next Babe Ruth( kidding on Babe Ruth, but you get the picture), I would be happy with a career of yearly totals of .265-285 avg, 20-30 homers, 75-100 rbi's, and 70-90 runs. I hope he can be a star, but the totals we had from Bruce by years end last year were pretty good. There are times when he can carry the team for 2-3 weeks. I say cut the kid some slack, he plays his butt off. If most of us worked as hard as he plays we would be CEO of the company. :beerme:

Not about how hard you work.... it's about results.

Needs to shorten his stroke, swing's too long. Good d though (save that debacle in the playoffs)

dubc47834
04-21-2011, 02:21 PM
Not about how hard you work.... it's about results.

Needs to shorten his stroke, swing's too long. Good d though (save that debacle in the playoffs)

You see thats the problem...it IS about how hard you work. Not everyone can put up big numbers. If he works hard and doesn't put up the HUGE numbers, and is average or slightly above average, I can live with that. I know some people can't tho.

brm7675
04-21-2011, 02:38 PM
I think what most forget about or overlook on Jay is his age. If he was say 26 or 27 and putting up the numbers he is I would be concerned...but he is not, he is still very young and learning....give it time people...

BluegrassRedleg
04-21-2011, 02:52 PM
Guys like Jay Bruce (and Jonny Gomes to a lesser extent) are players for whom I find it difficult to get angry with for very long because of their max effort. I would love to see Bruce continue to develop his game and get more out of each AB, but I love what he brings to the table with his glove and effort in RF.

markymark69
04-21-2011, 02:56 PM
dub,

I'm with you, but I think the complaints come from the fact that he was a No. 1 pick and he plays in a position that many feel need to bring about power numbers - the fact that he was minor league player of the year - and the absolutely out of this world start he had to his major league career.

I'm not saying it's fair, but I think those things point to it.

Frankly, though, I think what Bruce is giving them is fine.

The Dunn comment was accurate - same for Eric Davis and others in the past.

dubc47834
04-21-2011, 03:10 PM
dub,

I'm with you, but I think the complaints come from the fact that he was a No. 1 pick and he plays in a position that many feel need to bring about power numbers - the fact that he was minor league player of the year - and the absolutely out of this world start he had to his major league career.

I'm not saying it's fair, but I think those things point to it.

Frankly, though, I think what Bruce is giving them is fine.

The Dunn comment was accurate - same for Eric Davis and others in the past.

Yeah i think those 1st weeks when he came up had a lot to do with the way people feel about him. They say he had those huge numbers and why can't he do that now, it's too bad because I think he tries his arse off. :beerme:

BluegrassRedleg
04-21-2011, 03:24 PM
Sometimes with guys who have such high potential, it's not enough to just be a good player. We tend to be frustrated with anything short of greatness. You definitely saw the same thing with Dunn. That guy put up terrific numbers every year, but failed to satisfy many fans because he was just really good instead of great.

BigJohn
04-21-2011, 04:00 PM
Dunn was always a DH, he just happened to be in the NL so we got to watch his folly in LF.

Vottomatic
04-21-2011, 04:23 PM
For me, it all goes back to when Votto and then Bruce came up to the majors.

Votto wasn't that heralded and Bruce was dubbed almighty.

Joey rarely has a bad at-bat, much less multiple ones in a game. Watching a Votto at-bat has become one of my favorite past times. He makes adjustments, hits the pitch where he can handle it or to the opposite field if need be, fouls pitches off........usually hangs in there. I cannot say any of that about Jay Bruce. Jay has failed to make adjustments and typically tries to pull everything. An opposite field hit is a rarity for Jay. And he is not good at staying alive at the plate, and you typically can write him down for K if he gets behind in the count.

That is my problem. One guy continues to improve and is masterful at the plate/hitting. And the one that was supposed to be all that has regressed before my eyes and seems unwilling to make adjustments.

bounty37h
04-21-2011, 04:39 PM
Dunn was always a DH, he just happened to be in the NL so we got to watch his folly in LF.

^pretty much it.

Hondo
04-21-2011, 05:12 PM
For me, it all goes back to when Votto and then Bruce came up to the majors.

Votto wasn't that heralded and Bruce was dubbed almighty.

Joey rarely has a bad at-bat, much less multiple ones in a game. Watching a Votto at-bat has become one of my favorite past times. He makes adjustments, hits the pitch where he can handle it or to the opposite field if need be, fouls pitches off........usually hangs in there. I cannot say any of that about Jay Bruce. Jay has failed to make adjustments and typically tries to pull everything. An opposite field hit is a rarity for Jay. And he is not good at staying alive at the plate, and you typically can write him down for K if he gets behind in the count.

That is my problem. One guy continues to improve and is masterful at the plate/hitting. And the one that was supposed to be all that has regressed before my eyes and seems unwilling to make adjustments.


Bruce is 3 years younger...

krm1580
04-21-2011, 11:54 PM
The Jay Bruce/Adam Dunn comparisons I think are interesting from that standpoint that both guys put up gargantuan minor league numbers at a very young age and there was reasonable expectations they would follow a standard major league progression path and become elite hitters at the major league level by their 3rd or 4th year. For me that is really where the comparison ends.

Adam Dunn I believe people soured on because he flat lined. He never got better and in fact was worse in years 3 & 4 than in years 1 & 2. People focused on what he could not do rather than what he did do and the rest is history.

Jay Bruce on the other hand is definitely improving with last season being a very good year statistically. What I think is absolutely maddening with him is the inconsistency. For the past few seasons the suddenly the light goes on and the results a jaw dropping.

Sept 2008 OPS .954 - He's got it now! Wait til 2009! He proceeds to OPS .700 April -August 2009, then.....

Sept 2009 OPS 1.228 - Ok he's healthy now! Wait till 2010! He proceeds to OPS .780 April - July 2010, then.....

Aug-Oct 2010 OPS 1.056 - OK NOW the light IS on. 2011 Bruce Kills it! Mark it down!!

April 2011 OPS .675 with a 18/4 K to BB rate and looking lost.

I like Jay Bruce a lot. He is a great defender, appears to be a even better person AND he wants to play in Cincinnati as indicated by the long term deal he signed.

I know it is early in the season and the light could go on tommorrow for the rest of the season and we will bump this thread the day he picks up his MVP, but man is it hard to watch right now.

Vottomatic
04-22-2011, 04:49 AM
I never had a problem with Dunn offensively. He just bothered me with his joke of a defense.

Krawhitham
04-22-2011, 10:50 AM
Jay Bruce is a polarizing figure among Reds fans, some call him Jaybust, some think he is the next star, and if he is not that then he will be looked at as a failure. I say, why does he have to be a star. Why can't he be an average to slightly above average player who plays his butt off. The way he plays is not due to a lack of effort, no one that I know of has ever questioned that. I know the baseball Gods said he was the next Babe Ruth( kidding on Babe Ruth, but you get the picture), I would be happy with a career of yearly totals of .265-285 avg, 20-30 homers, 75-100 rbi's, and 70-90 runs. I hope he can be a star, but the totals we had from Bruce by years end last year were pretty good. There are times when he can carry the team for 2-3 weeks. I say cut the kid some slack, he plays his butt off. If most of us worked as hard as he plays we would be CEO of the company. :beerme:

6 years/$51M (2011-16), plus 2017 club option

signed extension with Cincinnati 12/10/10 (avoided arbitration)
$0.25M signing bonus
11:$2.75M, 12:$5M, 13:$7.5M, 14:$10M, 15:$12M, 16:$12.5M, 17:$13M club option ($1M buyout)
limited no-trade clause (may block deals to 8 clubs)
award bonuses

dubc47834
04-22-2011, 11:06 AM
6 years/$51M (2011-16), plus 2017 club option

signed extension with Cincinnati 12/10/10 (avoided arbitration)
$0.25M signing bonus
11:$2.75M, 12:$5M, 13:$7.5M, 14:$10M, 15:$12M, 16:$12.5M, 17:$13M club option ($1M buyout)
limited no-trade clause (may block deals to 8 clubs)
award bonuses

UHHH whats that suppossed to mean?

GOBCU33
04-22-2011, 01:37 PM
forget the Adam Dunn comparisons.... Bruce looks more and more like the next Austin Kearns

Hondo
04-22-2011, 02:05 PM
forget the Adam Dunn comparisons.... Bruce looks more and more like the next Austin Kearns

Now this is just irresponsible posting...

This thread is illogical because Jay Bruce is only 24 years old and improving every day... Dude will probably be 30 HR & 90 RBI by the end of the year while still batting over .270 so you guys need to Quit talking Crap on Jay Bruce and quit Beating a Dead Horse in Adam Dunn, you already ran him out of town...

brm7675
04-22-2011, 02:50 PM
Now this is just irresponsible posting...

This thread is illogical because Jay Bruce is only 24 years old and improving every day... Dude will probably be 30 HR & 90 RBI by the end of the year while still batting over .270 so you guys need to Quit talking Crap on Jay Bruce and quit Beating a Dead Horse in Adam Dunn, you already ran him out of town...

the "problem" with Bruce isn't Bruce, it's the media and the fans. He was promoted as almost the next HOF to play and then he had a real quick first week of so and WHAM everyone wanted the next mega superstar when the kid was like what 20. He is still learning and maturing and believe when it is all said and done we will have an incredible RF for many years.

signalhome
04-22-2011, 03:00 PM
the "problem" with Bruce isn't Bruce, it's the media and the fans. He was promoted as almost the next HOF to play and then he had a real quick first week of so and WHAM everyone wanted the next mega superstar when the kid was like what 20. He is still learning and maturing and believe when it is all said and done we will have an incredible RF for many years.

Exactly. Joey Votto was still in AAA at age 24, posting an .859 OPS.

I understand all the concerns about Bruce. He doesn't seem to be able to make adjustments, he is swinging too freely, and he tries to pull everything. Give it time, though, and remember that even if his bat never comes to around to the level that we're hoping it will, he'll still be an elite defender, and that counts for something. I'm just as disappointed as everyone else that he hasn't improved at a substantial rate every year, but I do truly think he'll come around to one day be a consistent .900 OPS, >5.5 WAR (once you factor in his great defense) player.

GOBCU33
04-23-2011, 02:54 AM
Now this is just irresponsible posting...

This thread is illogical because Jay Bruce is only 24 years old and improving every day... Dude will probably be 30 HR & 90 RBI by the end of the year while still batting over .270 so you guys need to Quit talking Crap on Jay Bruce and quit Beating a Dead Horse in Adam Dunn, you already ran him out of town...

in fact its a very legit comparison... Kearns was called up when he was 22, was a highly regarded first round pick, and showed great potential with his bat in his first full season with the Reds

Granted Bruce is much better defensively than Kearns, it is frustrating to watch his lack of patience and failure to adjust at the plate through two years.

Krawhitham
04-23-2011, 03:06 AM
UHHH whats that suppossed to mean?

It means he is getting paid to be more that just an average player, what else could it mean?

gilpdawg
04-23-2011, 03:12 AM
in fact its a very legit comparison... Kearns was called up when he was 22, was a highly regarded first round pick, and showed great potential with his bat in his first full season with the Reds

Granted Bruce is much better defensively than Kearns, it is frustrating to watch his lack of patience and failure to adjust at the plate through two years.

Yeah, but injuries derailed Kearns. Dude was awesome until he hurt his shoulder. He's never really been the same guy, other than one hot streak before "the trade." It's also revisionist history to say that he hasn't had a decent career. Didn't live up to expectations, sure, but he put up a 3.1 WAR in 2007 with the Nats.

HatchMo
04-23-2011, 03:36 AM
Jay bruce has the potential to become the best player on this team, but his immaturity at the plate at the moment is what is causing the problem. He has ZERO chance to hit a left hander right now, and refuses to try to go opposite field. I personally believe that he will catch a wave here very soon and he will be on fire, hopefully he can keep his flame going til the end of the season.

HatchMo
04-23-2011, 03:36 AM
Double post :dunno:

Old NDN
04-23-2011, 11:55 AM
It means he is getting paid to be more that just an average player, what else could it mean?

Agree. That LTC could weigh him down for the next several years. I refuse to use the age excuse for Bruce. There's enough of MLB players who have been successful at his age. He's gonna have to figure it out quickly or it's gonna be a loooong season for him. For those who think in the end, he'll put up big numbers, I hope you're right. But, he better get started soon.

Vottomatic
04-23-2011, 12:17 PM
Bruce is 3 years younger...

So?

Why does age matter?

If you make it to the Bigs, you're ready. Now build on it.

BluegrassRedleg
04-23-2011, 10:56 PM
So?

Why does age matter?

If you make it to the Bigs, you're ready. Now build on it.


I don't think you make any definitive calls on a guy anymore until they're 27. That seems to be the magic number for *most* players on what they're going to ultimately be.

BluegrassRedleg
04-23-2011, 11:00 PM
And I absolutely loved his final AB today. If he can bottle that up... :thumbup:

dubc47834
04-23-2011, 11:38 PM
It means he is getting paid to be more that just an average player, what else could it mean?

Ummmm, it coulda meant a lot, but oh well. If that's the way Ur going to post I'll just ignore it. It's all good.