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mikemo14
04-22-2011, 07:27 PM
Here it comes again with Rolen and shoulder/back trouble. He has been no help at all to this club post all-star break last year and to think things will improve is wishful thinking. He was horrible in the playoffs last year when his back bothered him and is 35 going on 45. Walt needs to be aggresive and find a power hitting third baseman to take his place and move on. I guess they should have known they were in trouble when they only planned to play him 120 games, rest him 2-3 times a week when he was healthy.

brm7675
04-22-2011, 07:33 PM
People are wanting the Reds to make a move..well here you go, I saw Walt needs to pick up the phone, call a former trade partner down in Texas and see what we can swing to bring Michael Young to the Reds.

mikemo14
04-22-2011, 07:39 PM
Great idea.

Hondo
04-22-2011, 07:40 PM
People are wanting the Reds to make a move..well here you go, I saw Walt needs to pick up the phone, call a former trade partner down in Texas and see what we can swing to bring Michael Young to the Reds.

This is by FAR the Best Post you have ever had!

I agree 110%

Mike Young would be a perfect bat for the Reds and could play 3B or SS everyday... Only moving to 3rd Base when Rolen needs a day off...

I would also not be afraid to Bat Young 4th behind Votto...

I am Serious Brm7675 - I agree totally...

This would be a Great Move!

brm7675
04-22-2011, 07:56 PM
This is by FAR the Best Post you have ever had!

I agree 110%

Mike Young would be a perfect bat for the Reds and could play 3B or SS everyday... Only moving to 3rd Base when Rolen needs a day off...

I would also not be afraid to Bat Young 4th behind Votto...

I am Serious Brm7675 - I agree totally...

This would be a Great Move!

The problem is...Walt would not even consider it and I doubt our owner would permit. A) Young has a pretty steep contract B) Rolen is the owners 'boy' as it was the owner who wanted Rolen in cincy.

So while I would be willing to offer say Heisey, Meresco and a either a Leake/Lecure or Malloney for him, it will never even be discussed by Walt. The Reds will play Cairo this weekend and IF by Monday Rolen is still unable I see them DL'ing him and bringing up Frazier possibly to back up Cairo as Cairo is your NEW starting 3rd basemen.

Jones1
04-22-2011, 08:14 PM
Why dont you guys settle down a little bit and see where this thing goes, he had a cortisone shot he'll be back in 3 or 4 games. His defense at 3rd base is the best in all of baseball and his hitting will come around, but he isn't an everyday player anymore and the Reds really have to monitor how much he plays. The guy that needs to step up in this series is Jay Bruce as he is now hitting in the 5 hole. If Jay Bruce hits while Rolen is out the Reds will be just fine and I love Gomes in the 4 hole with his HR power and OBP.

I'd like to see someone in Triple A really excel to come up and get some playing time at 3rd while Rolen has his rest days right now theres a handful of candidates, Francisco when he comes off the DL, Kris Negron and even Todd Frazier any of these guys could come up and play well on Rolens days off all while keeping him healthy to play well and finish the season strong. Don't fret fellas, we'll be just fine and remember we could always still have Edwin Encarnacion playing 3rd base, thank God we don't.

JMHO

Hondo
04-22-2011, 08:14 PM
Maybe the Reds could sign Ken Caminiti to play 3B? Former All-Star & MVP

brm7675
04-22-2011, 08:15 PM
Why dont you guys settle down a little bit and see where this thing goes, he had a cortisone shot he'll be back in 3 or 4 games. His defense at 3rd base is the best in all of baseball and his hitting will come around, but he isn't an everyday player anymore and the Reds really have to monitor how much he plays. The guy that needs to step up in this series is Jay Bruce as he is now hitting in the 5 hole. If Jay Bruce hits while Rolen is out the Reds will be just fine and I love Gomes in the 4 hole with his HR power and OBP.

I'd like to see someone in Triple A really excel to come up and get some playing time at 3rd while Rolen has his rest days right now theres a handful of candidates, Francisco when he comes off the DL, Kris Negron and even Todd Frazier any of these guys could come up and play well on Rolens days off all while keeping him healthy to play well and finish the season strong. Don't fret fellas, we'll be just fine and remember we could always still have Edwin Encarnacion playing 3rd base, thank God we don't.

JMHO

you do grasp Rolen's history, age adn severity of the injury?

brm7675
04-22-2011, 08:16 PM
Maybe the Reds could sign Ken Caminiti to play 3B? Former All-Star & MVP

Not to sound morbid...but he killed himself a few years back.

Stray
04-22-2011, 08:25 PM
I think you have to look at what he'll give you over the course of the year and be okay with it. He's not going to play a ton of games but we already knew he wouldn't. He'll play gold glove defense, run the bases hard, and hit somewhere around .280 with a fair share of rbis. There's also a good chance he'll tire at the end of the season which is why I hope he sits a lot of games throughout the summer.

I do agree we need to start planning on the future though, I'm not exactly sold on Francisco even though I haven't seen him play with any degree of regularity.

brm7675
04-22-2011, 08:28 PM
I think you have to look at what he'll give you over the course of the year and be okay with it. He's not going to play a ton of games but we already knew he wouldn't. He'll play gold glove defense, run the bases hard, and hit somewhere around .280 with a fair share of rbis. There's also a good chance he'll tire at the end of the season which is why I hope he sits a lot of games throughout the summer.

I do agree we need to start planning on the future though, I'm not exactly sold on Francisco even though I haven't seen him play with any degree of regularity.

Before this injury issue arose I was hoping for maybe 120-125 games from Rolen, with this injury problem I am seeing maybe 80-100 and that is not acceptable. A couple of shots and a weekend "off" won't solve this problem. We can't afford to "hope" he gets better, if you can improve your team why wouldn't you?

Stray
04-22-2011, 08:32 PM
Before this injury issue arose I was hoping for maybe 120-125 games from Rolen, with this injury problem I am seeing maybe 80-100 and that is not acceptable. A couple of shots and a weekend "off" won't solve this problem. We can't afford to "hope" he gets better, if you can improve your team why wouldn't you?

If this injury continues to linger and ends up being a 'real' problem then yes I would agree with you.

I would rather look for a long term solution at 3rd base if Rolen will be able to stay productive in a limited starting role for this entire season. If nothing else, see a lot more of Francisco even though that hasn't been great so far.

Jones1
04-22-2011, 08:32 PM
you do grasp Rolen's history, age adn severity of the injury?

Its not an injury yet if it was he'd be DLed right now, its a "SORE SHOULDER". Why all the doom and gloom lets wait and see how the treatment goes before we start talking about trading prospects 20 games into the season for a high priced player! Come on man....

Jones1
04-22-2011, 08:33 PM
Before this injury issue arose I was hoping for maybe 120-125 games from Rolen, with this injury problem I am seeing maybe 80-100 and that is not acceptable. A couple of shots and a weekend "off" won't solve this problem. We can't afford to "hope" he gets better, if you can improve your team why wouldn't you?

why do you keep calling it an injury? Its not!

Jones1
04-22-2011, 08:36 PM
Before this injury issue arose I was hoping for maybe 120-125 games from Rolen, with this injury problem I am seeing maybe 80-100 and that is not acceptable. A couple of shots and a weekend "off" won't solve this problem. We can't afford to "hope" he gets better, if you can improve your team why wouldn't you?

The Reds would never trade for Young but if they did the Rangers aren't going to trade Young anyway, when Hamilton is out for the next two months!

brm7675
04-22-2011, 08:36 PM
Its not an injury yet if it was he'd be DLed right now, its a "SORE SHOULDER". Why all the doom and gloom lets wait and see how the treatment goes before we start talking about trading prospects 20 games into the season for a high priced player! Come on man....

He had to have shots, he can not play, he is missing the entire weekend..just because the Reds are to stupid to DL doesn't mean it's not an injury or an issue.

I am talking about improving our team, not adding someone. Have you seen the numbers Mr. Young has posted? He can play 3rd, some short and 2nd and can crush the ball. Put him 4th behind votto and watch out...especially in Cincy.

davereds24
04-22-2011, 08:37 PM
Here it comes again with the overreacting to Rolen missing a few games.

He has 12rbi and has been of no help?

brm7675
04-22-2011, 08:37 PM
The Reds would never trade for Young but if they did the Rangers aren't going to trade Young anyway, when Hamilton is out for the next two months!

with the right offer you never know...

Jones1
04-22-2011, 08:38 PM
Here it comes again with the overreacting to Rolen missing a few games.

He has 12rbi and has been of no help?

Agreed Dave sometimes i wonder why i even read/respond to this garbage.

Jones1
04-22-2011, 08:39 PM
with the right offer you never know...

What are you smoking man i'd like some of it?

brm7675
04-22-2011, 08:39 PM
Here it comes again with the overreacting to Rolen missing a few games.

He has 12rbi and has been of no help?

Your right, having him miss games is okay and having to go with Cairo is no let down at all. Rolen isn't 25 anymore, and as you age you take longer to "heal" or get better and to think he is going to get better is just sticking your head into the ground. IF and again I don't think it will happen, but IF the Reds could add a bat along the lines of Michael Young who can also play 3rd...HOW IS THAT A BAD THING?

brm7675
04-22-2011, 08:41 PM
What are you smoking man i'd like some of it?

The Rangers want Young off the books and yes Hamilton is down for a while, but they have no where to play Young and could get say Heisey as part of the deal, thus moving Hamilton to DH upon his return, reducing the wear and tear on his body (they already moved him out of CF to do that) and you have a possible deal.

Jones1
04-22-2011, 08:42 PM
Your right, having him miss games is okay and having to go with Cairo is no let down at all. Rolen isn't 25 anymore, and as you age you take longer to "heal" or get better and to think he is going to get better is just sticking your head into the ground. IF and again I don't think it will happen, but IF the Reds could add a bat along the lines of Michael Young who can also play 3rd...HOW IS THAT A BAD THING?

Because Rolen is under contract for two more years for something like 12 million or more. Hes not going anywhere and unless he gets IRed the only answer is in house at Triple A. So if you really want to ask the question the one you should ask is who to split time with Rolen thats in Triple A?

brm7675
04-22-2011, 08:46 PM
Because Rolen is under contract for two more years for something like 12 million or more. Hes not going anywhere and unless he gets IRed the only answer is in house at Triple A. So if you really want to ask the question the one you should ask is who to split time with Rolen thats in Triple A?

to me this comes down to one simple question for the Reds owner. Do you want to win? If the answer is YES then you make a move, if the answer is 'well if we can' then you bring up a AAA player and if the answer is "well maybe" you go with Cairo at third and pray...

davereds24
04-22-2011, 08:51 PM
there is so much wrong with your logic it's hard to pick a spot where to start

Young is only 1.5 years younger than Rolen, will make something like $30+mil over the next couple years, was less productive than Rolen last year, and all he is doing this season better than Rolen is hitting for average.

Small market teams can't afford massive contracts, haven't you learned that after seeing Griffey, Harang, and Cordero over the last decade?

brm7675
04-22-2011, 08:53 PM
there is so much wrong with your logic it's hard to pick a spot where to start

Young is only 1.5 years younger than Rolen, will make something like $30+mil over the next couple years, was less productive than Rolen last year, and all he is doing this season better than Rolen is hitting for average.

Small market teams can't afford massive contracts, haven't you learned that after seeing Griffey, Harang, and Cordero over the last decade?

We lose Cordero next season and this whole "we can't afford" player X is BS. How much cash did the Reds hand out this offseason? The money is there, and yes it's a slight risk, but when you have a window of 3 years you need to jump on it...

signalhome
04-22-2011, 08:53 PM
Here it comes again with the overreacting to Rolen missing a few games.

He has 12rbi and has been of no help?

Look a little deeper at the numbers. He has had 18 at-bats with RISP his slash line is .222/.273/.333/.606. Joey Votto may only have 10 RBIs, but he has only had 10 ABs with RISP -- his slash line in this situation is .500/.600/.700/1.300. This is why RBIs can often be very misleading.

Rolen has played some great defense, but his offense has been pitiful. The only reason he has such good superficial numbers is because the guy in front of him is getting on base at a .518 clip, which is giving Rolen a ton of at-bats with runners on. He has 33 at-bats with runners on as opposed to only 27 at-bats with the bases empty.

brm7675
04-22-2011, 09:00 PM
All i know is if I heard this from my starting aging 3rd basemen I would be scared..

“I got to the point when I played Wednesday, I’m trying to figure out how to catch up to 87, 88 [mph]. I’m thinking ‘I’m trying to finish the game,’” Rolen said. “This is what I’m thinking. This is going the wrong way.”

davereds24
04-22-2011, 09:10 PM
There's no doubt it's very concerning, they just have to ride it out and hope Cairo does what he did last year. The rotation is bigger concern right now.

Kiss the Baby00
04-22-2011, 10:46 PM
lol @ all of you who think Rolen is fine etc.

Yea we love our cleanup hitter to have an OPS of .660. OBP is under .250. lol hes awful. going 1-5 every game doesn't count as being helpful.

markedmanner
04-22-2011, 10:55 PM
My 2 cents... I am concerned about Rolen but all this talk about a trade for Michael Young is crazy. Even if you think it is a good idea. Its not gonna happen. Reds wont do it and besides who is to say that the Rangers would anyway? We have Cario to play 3rd not to mention we could even throw Janish in over there and occasionally Fransisco if he can cut down on the strikeouts.

mikemo14
04-23-2011, 03:29 PM
When your cleanup hitter/ protection for your MVP number three hitter can only swing a bat with one hand most of the time and this has been going on since the all-star break last year, it is a major concern. Unless the shot that he took is able to get him back to 100% for a lengthy amount of time, the Reds absolutely need to look at other options. To expect Cairo to produce the way he did in '10 or to expect Gomes to continue to hit the way he has so far this year is more than likely dreaming.

Hillsdale87
04-23-2011, 03:45 PM
The problem is...Walt would not even consider it and I doubt our owner would permit. A) Young has a pretty steep contract B) Rolen is the owners 'boy' as it was the owner who wanted Rolen in cincy.

So while I would be willing to offer say Heisey, Meresco and a either a Leake/Lecure or Malloney for him, it will never even be discussed by Walt. The Reds will play Cairo this weekend and IF by Monday Rolen is still unable I see them DL'ing him and bringing up Frazier possibly to back up Cairo as Cairo is your NEW starting 3rd basemen.

You want to trade our top outfield prospect, one of the best catching prospects in the majors, and our 1st round pick from 2009 for a player who plays average defense and has had an OPS over .800 once in the last 4 years and has possibly the worst contract in the majors? The Reds can't afford his contract anyway, but there's no way I would want to give up value for him on top of that. He clearly is a pretty good player, but he's not worth $15 MM and our top prospects.

I am nervous about Rolen's ability to produce over the course of a season as well. I hope that he is able to stay healthy, but I certainly am not counting on it. However, I don't think the Reds are in position to add much, and especially a big contract. More important than fixing 3B is that Bruce begins to produce. He was expected to break out this year, but he has yet to do much.

Girevik
04-25-2011, 10:05 AM
I don't see the Reds even considering trading for Young. They are not going to pay two aging 3B something around $45M the next two years.

I'd much rather see them get a younger guy (who's maybe not a top tier guy) who can be Rolen's replacement when he's done.

Jones1
04-26-2011, 08:41 AM
This is by FAR the Best Post you have ever had!

I agree 110%

Mike Young would be a perfect bat for the Reds and could play 3B or SS everyday... Only moving to 3rd Base when Rolen needs a day off...

I would also not be afraid to Bat Young 4th behind Votto...

I am Serious Brm7675 - I agree totally...

This would be a Great Move!

Micheal Young at SS that is hilarious..

Cant Touch This
04-26-2011, 09:55 AM
While I think discussing the Reds future at 3B is a very relevant topic, I do not believe Michael Young is the answer. Many of the reasons have already been presented, but the two main sticking points are his age and drop in productivity. Never mind his contract - he's just not a viable solution to replace Rolen in my opinion.

If the Reds feel it necessary to solve the 3B puzzle through trade or free agency, I'd rather see them go after someone like Ryan Zimmerman. Big contract - yes, but if the Reds aren't going to pony up in LF or SS, plus shedding CoCo's contract, there should be money available. He's due $12MM in 2012 and $14MM in 2013. Can the Nats afford to keep Zimmerman with contracts like Strasburg, Harper due to escalate plus Werth?

Or...we save our pennies in the Keep Joey Votto Fund and look for younger/cheaper options at 3B. I personally don't believe Juan Francisco is the answer. I have nothing against the guy personally, but he has yet to show me anything at the plate that convinces me he's major-league talent. I'm pretty sure I could strike him out. I'd love for him to prove me wrong, of course.

I'm not in love with our other 3B prospects either. I don't know if there is a stud 3B in the farm system for another team that the Reds could consider acquiring via trade. Maybe that team needs a young catcher or first baseman. We have depth there...

Just think Michael Young isn't the answer here, but as much as I love having Rolen at the hot corner, his clock is ticking...

Hey Meat
04-26-2011, 05:05 PM
People are wanting the Reds to make a move..well here you go, I saw Walt needs to pick up the phone, call a former trade partner down in Texas and see what we can swing to bring Michael Young to the Reds.

Great Idea that would have worked about a month and a half ago when they announced the changes for Young's role as a Ranger. Now with Hamilton hurt this would be highly unlikely.

Hillsdale87
04-26-2011, 05:16 PM
While I think discussing the Reds future at 3B is a very relevant topic, I do not believe Michael Young is the answer. Many of the reasons have already been presented, but the two main sticking points are his age and drop in productivity. Never mind his contract - he's just not a viable solution to replace Rolen in my opinion.

If the Reds feel it necessary to solve the 3B puzzle through trade or free agency, I'd rather see them go after someone like Ryan Zimmerman. Big contract - yes, but if the Reds aren't going to pony up in LF or SS, plus shedding CoCo's contract, there should be money available. He's due $12MM in 2012 and $14MM in 2013. Can the Nats afford to keep Zimmerman with contracts like Strasburg, Harper due to escalate plus Werth?

Or...we save our pennies in the Keep Joey Votto Fund and look for younger/cheaper options at 3B. I personally don't believe Juan Francisco is the answer. I have nothing against the guy personally, but he has yet to show me anything at the plate that convinces me he's major-league talent. I'm pretty sure I could strike him out. I'd love for him to prove me wrong, of course.

I'm not in love with our other 3B prospects either. I don't know if there is a stud 3B in the farm system for another team that the Reds could consider acquiring via trade. Maybe that team needs a young catcher or first baseman. We have depth there...

Just think Michael Young isn't the answer here, but as much as I love having Rolen at the hot corner, his clock is ticking...

I don't think the Nats are going to be looking to trade Zimmerman. They went hard after both Greinke and Lee in the offseason, so I don't think finances are a restriction for them. They don't mind spending the money, so I don't see them doing any kind of a salary dump.

Krawhitham
04-26-2011, 05:28 PM
This is by FAR the Best Post you have ever had!

I agree 110%

Mike Young would be a perfect bat for the Reds and could play 3B or SS everyday... Only moving to 3rd Base when Rolen needs a day off...

I would also not be afraid to Bat Young 4th behind Votto...

I am Serious Brm7675 - I agree totally...

This would be a Great Move!


He is 34 and owed 48 million over the next 3 seasons