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View Full Version : The biggest mistake of Jocketty (whats wrong right now)



will5979
04-25-2011, 02:32 PM
The biggest mistake Jocketty has made with this team is not finding a solid #4 cleanup hitter to replace big Adam Dunn. After the 08 season Reds management stated that the number 1 priority was aquiring a big bat, we are still waiting for that promise to be fulfilled, surely he didn't mean that Rolen was the big bat to replace the Big Donkey.

Yeah we had Hamilton but thats a different debate all together, (worst trade in Reds 21st century history).

This team's offense is not going to be able to win it all until there is a legit power hitter in the 4 hole. Gomes, Rolen, and Bruce I like, but they are NOT 4 hitters, just like batting BP 4th can't work out, what I'm trying to say is when BP is you cleanup hitter for 2 years, then a has-been while trying to defend the Central title, the answer should be ACQUIRE A FLIPPIN' BAT before this season is lost.

brm7675
04-25-2011, 03:11 PM
It is NOT that easy getting such a bat. Of the players that have moved over the past 2-3 seasons whom do you think the Reds should have gotten?

will5979
04-25-2011, 05:00 PM
Granted. Based on that philosophy, I have the simpliest of all solutions, YOU KEEP ADAM DUNN. We should have given him a 6-8 year deal after the 08 season, I foam at the mouth to think what this lineup would be with him batting after Votto.

signalhome
04-25-2011, 05:08 PM
I am not a fan of Jocketty at all but I have to take up for him here. I'm not sure who the Reds could have acquired at a reasonable cost to fill the position. The only good, affordable option I see that he could have grabbed is Berkman, and I understand being hesitant to shell out anything on him, considering his mediocre 2010 and questions about his outfield defense. Berkman would have been a great bat to pick up, especially at $8 million, but his outfield defense is atrocious. He's on pace for a -23.3 UZR/150, which is pathetic. Obviously if he keeps up the .489 wOBA he is sporting right now his bat would more than make up for that, but let's be realistic, there is zero chance of that. He'll likely end up somewhere around his usual upper .300s -- career average is .404, but once you factor in his age-driven decline, .380 or .390 is probably about all you could reasonably expect. I'd place my bet on him finishing the year somewhere between 3.0-4.0 WAR, assuming he doesn't fall off the face of the earth and repeat his 2010 performance. In hindsight Berkman would have probably been a really good pickup for $8 million, but once you think about his disappointing 2010 and the questions about how well he could play outfield at age 35, I think it's perfectly understandable that Jocketty passed on him.

AlienFace
04-25-2011, 05:11 PM
The Reds should have gone after Matt Holliday a couple years ago. That was the perfect opportunity for them to improve their team and simultaneously hurt their rival.

signalhome
04-25-2011, 05:12 PM
Granted. Based on that philosophy, I have the simpliest of all solutions, YOU KEEP ADAM DUNN. We should have given him a 6-8 year deal after the 08 season, I foam at the mouth to think what this lineup would be with him batting after Votto.

Dunn is my favorite non-Reds player in baseball, but in his last two years in LF, Dunn posted a combined -67.8 UZR, which contributed to him only being a 2.3 WAR player. I think Dunn works great as a 1B (a -3.1 UZR last year at that position, which is a major step up from the previous two seasons), but his defense has deteriorated so much his value is almost a wash if you have to stick him in the outfield. With Votto at 1B, there really wasn't a position for Dunn anymore.

signalhome
04-25-2011, 05:15 PM
The Reds should have gone after Matt Holliday a couple years ago. That was the perfect opportunity for them to improve their team and simultaneously hurt their rival.

Probably a good call, but it would have been hard for them to afford him.

Of course, maybe they could afford him if they weren't paying Francisco Cordero over $12 million a year to pitch 70 innings. Man I hate that contract.

brm7675
04-25-2011, 05:21 PM
Probably a good call, but it would have been hard for them to afford him.

Of course, maybe they could afford him if they weren't paying Francisco Cordero over $12 million a year to pitch 70 innings. Man I hate that contract.

Wasn't Holiday "traded" to the Cards and then while he was with them he signed the extention? We never had a shot at him.

signalhome
04-25-2011, 05:26 PM
Wasn't Holiday "traded" to the Cards and then while he was with them he signed the extention? We never had a shot at him.

Yeah, he was traded to the Cards, but he re-signed with them after he became a free agent.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=4799313

bshall2105
04-25-2011, 05:29 PM
Wasn't Holiday "traded" to the Cards and then while he was with them he signed the extention? We never had a shot at him.

He was in Oakland at the time so the best offer would have landed Holliday.

markedmanner
04-25-2011, 07:17 PM
Gomes, Rolen, and Bruce I like, but they are NOT 4 hitters, just like batting BP 4th can't work out, what I'm trying to say is when BP is you cleanup hitter for 2 years, then a has-been while trying to defend the Central title, the answer should be ACQUIRE A FLIPPIN' BAT before this season is lost.

Thought Rolen did ok as the number 4 last year .285 and 20 long balls. So I think Jocketty made a fantastic move when we got Rolen. He has help this team become what it is. Rolen was fine hitting 4th last year and if he gets healthy will be fine this year. My concern is that he wont get healthy though.. Only time will tell.

brm7675
04-25-2011, 07:21 PM
This is the reason Holiday is a Card and not a Reds:

On Tuesday, the free-agent slugger announced on The Doug Gottlieb Show on ESPN Radio that he is re-signing with the team for seven years. The deal is worth $120 million -- Holliday will make $15 million a season, plus another $2 million a year in deferred payments -- with a vesting option for 2017. If the option doesn't vest, then the Cardinals can either pick up the option at $17 million or take the buyout for $1 million.

That is way to much money and way to long of a deal for the Reds to even consider topping.

Krawhitham
04-25-2011, 08:10 PM
Granted. Based on that philosophy, I have the simpliest of all solutions, YOU KEEP ADAM DUNN. We should have given him a 6-8 year deal after the 08 season, I foam at the mouth to think what this lineup would be with him batting after Votto.

Adam Dunn is not worth 15 million if he has to play LF and we have Votto playing 1st

BluegrassRedleg
04-25-2011, 08:45 PM
Thought Rolen did ok as the number 4 last year .285 and 20 long balls. So I think Jocketty made a fantastic move when we got Rolen. He has help this team become what it is. Rolen was fine hitting 4th last year and if he gets healthy will be fine this year. My concern is that he wont get healthy though.. Only time will tell.

Those numbers are more akin to the 6-7 holes for elite MLB teams. Like I've said before, it's hard for me to dislike Jonny because he busts his ass all the time for the Reds, but he's just a really flawed hitter. The Reds can't survive him in the 4 or 5 holes.

Vottomatic
04-25-2011, 09:17 PM
Agree or disagree with whom they should have kept or signed............it's hard to argue that the #4 spot in the lineup isn't a weakness. Where would this team be with a Holliday-TYPE hitter behind Votto, a luxury that Pujols has?

cardszone
04-25-2011, 09:31 PM
Agree or disagree with whom they should have kept or signed............it's hard to argue that the #4 spot in the lineup isn't a weakness. Where would this team be with a Holliday-TYPE hitter behind Votto, a luxury that Pujols has?

I, for one, very very glad that you guys didn't sign Berkman for this very reason.